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[Current Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] The Story of Ming Lan 庶女明兰传 / 知否?知否?应是绿肥红瘦

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34 minutes ago, fra8 said:

I don’t think he wants that. He likes her the way she is. He wants the certainty that whatever she does for him it is because of feelings for him and not because she would the same for anybody.

i find telling when he distinguished between guaren and Erlang.

It’s childish and silly the way he tries but I guess he doesn’t know what to do. And more his feelings get deeper, more he wants to know hers. This is a guy that has never been loved so his need is clear.

I am surprise he was so willing to love again and so soon too.I guess he seen how really special she was and wasn't going to let her go.

 

He does love with all of his heart thats for sure.

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3 minutes ago, leeza77 said:

I don't think anyone of us hate gty or ml. I'm rooting for them. It just a discussion on their character at this point of time. I know things will change and they will have their happiness. It just a friendly discussion where we can state our opinion freely, without insulting others. 

Some people here do hate believed it or not. But i mean if they hate then its fine cus i dont expect everyone to have the same liking and i could careless. Mainly come here for spoliers and translations. And im also rooting for them too!

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6 minutes ago, lolalarue said:

I do understand where you're coming from, but I see a lot of posters berating ML for her behaviour and saying how much they admire GTY. And I suspect it's because by modern standards GTY is being a romantic hero and Minglan is being backwards. But by the standards of the time the show is set in, Minglan is going above and beyond. None of what GTY promised her (easy life) when he schemed his way to marry her has come true (let's not forget she had very little choice - when he talked to her about marrying him, he wasn't promising love and faithfulness but a marriage of equals). She has given him as much as she can (so far), she's scheming for the team, she cares for him, she takes care of his children, she sticks to the rules of a good wife in their society. I don't blame her for not giving her heart to him because he hasn't asked for it yet. Has he said he loves her? Has he said he won't ever have another woman? She has already explained (and he heard) that loving him and expecting faithfulness is a recipe for an unhappy life. He's never had a conversation with her about it. She's just supposed to work it out and decide its worth the risk? Even when it's not even something he's promised? I honestly don't understand why there's not a lot of sympathy for her here. What man in Minglan's world only has one woman for the rest of their life? She's not thinking about the next month, she's thinking about the next 50 years. If she loves him the way he wants, what happens in 5 years, 10, 15, 20. She has no reason to ever think he wouldn't have another woman. There are literally no powerful men with only one wife. She's worried about her heart, when the inevitable happens - and it could be waaaaay into the future, but it would still kill her (because only we the audience trusts that GTY would be faithful to her forever). 

I hate the insistence on Erlang because Maniang kept using it in the coaxing tone that we know is fake (but GTY really wants to be real from Minglan). It just creeps me out

From my pov, he is not a romantic hero.  He tricked her into marriage because he liked her and now he wants all even if he married her knowing she had feelings for another. He makes mistakes because he is, like another chingu said, a bulldozer.

Thing is both are right imo from their perspectives. He knows he won't love another as anybody can know because life is unpredictable but she has no reason to trust him.

 

I agree, he should change i, but I think he meant loving the man, not  the husband, head of the house.

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4 minutes ago, fra8 said:

From my pov, he is not a romantic hero.  He tricked her into marriage because he liked her and now he wants all even if he married her knowing she had feelings for another. He makes mistakes because he is, like another chingu said, a bulldozer.

Thing is both are right imo from their perspectives. He knows he won't love another as anybody can know because life is unpredictable but she has no reason to trust him.

 

I agree, he should change i, but I think he meant loving the man, not  the husband, head of the house.

I don't think he tricked her though. He maneuvered the situation so that the family was forced to comply (so I see your point), but when he met her at the polo match he said (and I think both of them knew it was sincere) that if she still didn't want to marry him after he talked to her he would accept it. I believe she trusted him enough to belive in his scheming to get her out of the marriage as much as he had the ability to set it up in the first place. 

 

Edited to add: I don't think she did love anyone at that point. They have't made it really obvious but quite a lot of time has gone past between Qi Heng and her. I think he knows that her heart isn't full of someone else. He also knows at that point that it's not full of him. He wants her to love him now, but he won't say it. 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, lolalarue said:

Agreed. 

 

I also want to say that I don't hate GTY at all. In fact I can't wait for him to convince Minglan to open up. Still I'm not frustrated with Minglan, I think she's doing her best. I understand that it frustrates the audience and GTY but I don't fault her for her actions. 

Nicely said @lolalarue @leeza77

I love GTY. He's just so right for ML in every sense! And vice versa. 

Even granny took a step back because GTY is there to protect ML now, and she's no longer alone. 

 

I'm also actually convinced now that had QH said yes then, he might really go out of his way to let them be together because he admired ML enough to want her be happy. 

 

Of everyone, I feel GTY knows her best. Even if he doesn't feel like it now. 

The things she shared with him. The implicit understanding of each other.

The way he nudged back into her bed at night and hug her to sleep...

The way she hugged him when they found the remains of Chang'er...

Can we just have the happy days now??

 

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5 hours ago, leeza77 said:

Maybe gty sh learn fr qh. Qh was so confident that ml love him through simple & small gestures like gifting him with ankle pad. The gestures ml did towards her darling two were more magnificent than qh. Thus gty sh be convinced that ml love him. She has me in her heart... La la

Just being married and continously being bogged down with problems brought fwd by GTY's family, relatives, mistress, kids, gifts of concubines and the palace etc.. poor ML's had to spend her days trying to counter or evade these daily abuses... 

 

Its such a heavy burden she had to face and also "think" the right advice to give to GTY not to over react..

 

Not forgetting the "cold" treatment she still gets fm her father n Molan.

 

...wonder if she has the time to even think of being jealous? LOL

 

GTY is the one who should be more considerate by not giving additional stress/pressure by demanding too much from ML.

 

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9 minutes ago, dramaninja said:

I am surprise he was so willing to love again and so soon too.I guess he seen how really special she was and wasn't going to let her go.

 

He does love with all of his heart thats for sure.

What do you meant that he was willing to love again? I don't think that he love manniang. Gty is a chauvinist. He agreed to take manniang as a concubine becoz he pity her. Manniang lied to him that she's alone in this world. Her brother just died and she had to fend herself by singing in the opera troupe. 

He didn't love manniang. He hate manniang for deceiving him. 

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9 minutes ago, Katrina Abdul Talib said:

Just being married and continously being bogged down with problems brought fwd by GTY's family, relatives, mistress, kids, gifts of concubines and the palace etc.. poor ML's had to spend her days trying to counter or evade these daily abuses... 

 

Its such a heavy burden she had to face and also "think" the right advice to give to GTY not to over react..

 

Not forgetting the "cold" treatment she still gets fm her father n Molan.

 

...wonder if she has the time to even think of being jealous? LOL

 

GTY is the one who should be more considerate by not giving additional stress/pressure by demanding too much from ML.

 

He went going through or went  though just as many things as her.


Right Now? he lost his child that evil woman is back making false claims about him, he got stab by her and also many more new things.

 

Like I said many times why  her feelings are more important than his?He does not get an additional pressure or stress from her actions?

 

Both are guilty of these things they need to have some real talks which they will they obviously care about each other alot.

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5 minutes ago, m0us3y said:

Nicely said @lolalarue @leeza77

I love GTY. He's just so right for ML in every sense! And vice versa. 

Even granny took a step back because GTY is there to protect ML now, and she's no longer alone. 

 

I'm also actually convinced now that had QH said yes then, he might really go out of his way to let them be together because he admired ML enough to want her be happy. 

 

Of everyone, I feel GTY knows her best. Even if he doesn't feel like it now. 

The things she shared with him. The implicit understanding of each other.

The way he nudged back into her bed at night and hug her to sleep...

The way she hugged him when they found the remains of Chang'er...

Can we just have the happy days now??

 

I think this is the pinnacle of their problem that will be solved in the next 2 episodes. After that they will be united as team to solve all their enemies together. One will attack, one will defence. One charge forward, one will strategise behind

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Just now, leeza77 said:

I think this is the pinnacle of their problem that will be solved in the next 2 episodes. After that they will be united as team to solve all their enemies together. One will attack, one will defence. One charge forward, one will strategise behind

I sure hope so. I have enough heartbreak of seeing them hurt each other, intentional or not. 

And worse, see GTY's stepmom being happy about it...<_<

Otherwise, like another chingu said, I'm ready to poison granny so that we can get the heart to heart talk already!!

 

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3 minutes ago, m0us3y said:

I sure hope so. I have enough heartbreak of seeing them hurt each other, intentional or not. 

And worse, see GTY's stepmom being happy about it...<_<

Otherwise, like another chingu said, I'm ready to poison granny so that we can get the heart to heart talk already!!

 

I hate her too.. Loath her fake soft voice. Her gleeful face when gty's reputation was tarnished. 

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After reading you guys' opinions, there's some points I wanted to make:

 

1. As I've explained before, he wanting her to call him Er Lang HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MANNIANG. His father called him Er Lang, his stepmother calls him Er Lang, his brother calls him Er Lang, his uncles call him Er Lang, Chang Bai calls him Er Lang, it's his NAME, his IDENTITY. He wants her to acknowledge him as himself, not as the general figure she calls Husband. You can't expect him to ditch the name altogether because MN once called him that? If she called him GTY, then does he have to throw the name away, not allow to use it anymore??

 

2. Someone explained above, but his plotting was his way of handing her the power to decide if she wanted to marry him or not. He made sure that her family wouldn't be the one who said no, only she can. And she did. In his proposal, he clearly stated that he had long loved and admired her, he's going to entrusted his whole life and everything he had to her, and she said yes. Is it really unreasonable for him to expect the same from her?

 

3. Both of them aren't dealing with this matter the right way. Him pushing her is impatient and counter productive, her completely ignoring his (true) needs and being uncharacteristically dense are also frustrating. I think we can all agree that this is gonna takes time and fights and honest conversations to get to mutual understanding. It will come, we just have to wait.

 

4. I do believe they both love each other, while he knows it, she probably doesn't or doesn't want to open to the possibility. They really need to communicate, he needs to tell her what he wants (instead of speaking in codes and get angry, because at this point she won't get it until he tells her point blank) and she needs to tell him her fears (instead of only telling her maids, but at the same time telling him that she loves/trusts him when she doesn't actually mean it).

 

5. Honestly, her not trusting him is an insult to his character. He has been telling her over and over again that he will be good to her, that there won't be another woman. It's understandable that her past experiences make it hard for her to trust him, but to him, this is telling that she doesn't think he's better or different than any other men in her life. It's like when you promise someone something, they say they believe you, but in the back of their mind they always wait for you to break that promise, like they don't trust your integrity at all. How is that not hurt?

Edited by gleek49
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ML is in love with GTY. Just does not realize it yet. Remember when she thought GTY was injured and decided that he will not be having his bath anymore. That is not the reaction of someone who just cares. That is the reaction of someone who loves you so much to the point that they cannot bear losing you. Seeing the blood scared her witless to the point that she thought about all the possible ways she could lose him and decided, nope no bath for you today. GTY being a military man has probably faced harsher conditions and that bath would not have hurt him.

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3 minutes ago, gleek49 said:

After reading you guys' opinions, there's some points I wanted to make:

 

1. As I've explained before, he wanting her to call him Er Lang HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MANNIANG. His father called him Er Lang, his stepmother calls him Er Lang, his brother calls him Er Lang, his uncles call him Er Lang, Chang Bai calls him Er Lang, it's his NAME, his IDENTITY. He wants her to acknowledge him as himself, not as the general figure she calls Husband. You can't expect him to ditch the name altogether because MN once called him that? If she called him GTY, then does he have to throw the name away, not allow to use it anymore??

2. Someone explained above, but his plotting was his way of handing her the power to decide if she wanted to marry him or not. He made sure that her family wouldn't be the one who said no, only she can. And she did. In his proposal, he clearly stated that he had long loved and admired her, he's going to entrusted his whole life and everything his had to her, and she said yes. Is it really unreasonable for him to expect the same from her?

3. Both of them are dealing with this matter the right way. Him pushing her is impatient and counter productive, her completely ignoring his (true) needs and being uncharacteristically dense are also frustrating. I think we can all agree that this is gonna takes time and fights and honest conversations to get to mutual understanding. It will come, we just have to wait.

On your point one, I remember reading it and you're no doubt absolutely correct. It's just that it's so fresh in my mind. It's not a reasonable reaction but I just hate it. 

 

2. Yep, he gave her honour that allowed her to rise above her station and be married as a legitimate daughter. 

 

3. It's so frustrating - I need it to happen soooon. 

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I love their relationship I love how she has such genuine laughs with him thats how you know they love each other!She is behind him when  it comes to expressing it but she will catch up.

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31 minutes ago, dramaninja said:

I love their relationship I love how she has such genuine laughs with him thats how you know they love each other!She is behind him when  it comes to expressing it but she will catch up.

I think they express and understand  love in different ways. In modern times GTY will be said to be a 'words of affirmation' kind of guy. This is evident in the way he is quick to make promises and calls her little fox. ML is an ' act of service 'girl. She is always thinking of schemes to help her husband. She is reluctant to let him help her in the household stuff because apparently if he adds that to his burdens "wouldn't that make GTY suffer in marrying her?

I am sure eventually they will learn to recognize each others acts of love as what it is and become stronger as a team.

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Other than GTY, the other male prospect for ML I really like was Dr. He. It’s a pity that he just didn’t have a backbone to turn away cousin and her family. When he was staring off to watch them on their wedding day I felt so bad for him more than QH. I can tell he really liked ML that he had to go on a journey to heal his broken heart.... Even if he didn’t have a backbone I believe he would’ve cherish ML more. Because he is also someone that views woman as equals but I also believe he has more patience and tolerance than GTY. And he won’t put so much pressure on ML. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, m0us3y said:

Nicely said @lolalarue @leeza77

I love GTY. He's just so right for ML in every sense! And vice versa. 

Even granny took a step back because GTY is there to protect ML now, and she's no longer alone. 

 

I'm also actually convinced now that had QH said yes then, he might really go out of his way to let them be together because he admired ML enough to want her be happy. 

 

Of everyone, I feel GTY knows her best. Even if he doesn't feel like it now. 

The things she shared with him. The implicit understanding of each other.

The way he nudged back into her bed at night and hug her to sleep...

The way she hugged him when they found the remains of Chang'er...

Can we just have the happy days now??

 

 

 

Isnt this why some of us unintentionally berated ml for being ignorant towards gty feeling? I can honestly say for myself that I’ve been impatient, firstly waiting for CL to be gone, and then waiting for qh to be gone, and for gty to make his move, waiting for dr he to be gone. And now that both are married, waiting for grandma to get poisoned :ph34r:

 

It doesnt mean I dislike ml, I mean, we all are rooting for her (and gty’s) happiness. Sometimes I want to shout at ml, sometimes at gty. Most of the time at the stepmom, and sh. That’s the fun part of watching drama.

 

if it takes too long, my friend, lets get the poisoning grandma mission rolling asap

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This fight is a good thing, guys. This is how these two will open up completely to each other. Like CB was saying to GTY in the preview...if you don't like something talk to each other face to face and clear everything.

As I said before, the fight is divided in 3 parts.....Part 1...is GTY's POV....Parts 2 & 3  are all ML going all guns blazing on GTY....:joy:

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5 hours ago, gleek49 said:

In one of their conversation, GTY talks to ML about his different relationships with his father and stepmother. Basically, even though his relationship with his father was difficult, he was still able to freely express his emotion to father, his anger, his disappointment, because they're truly family. However, with his step mother, whether they were on good term or not, he's always been more careful, polite and reserved, maybe a little pretentious, because she's an outsider. His point is that right now, ML is treating him like an outsider, carefully choosing her words, polite in her action, reserved in her feelings and even a little pretentious sometimes, like when she answers "I believe you", when she actually not. Sucks for him that the obvious metaphor still somehow fly over her head :sweatingbullets: I get why she's like this, but I also get why he's pissed, I mean how many times does he have to tell her? She's  normally very smart, isn't she? Of course, it's frustrating to him that she's still genuinely not getting it =)))

 

His fear is that she's good to him because he's her guan ren, not her Er Lang. He's afraid that she would treat anyone who is her husband this dutifully, be it QH or HHW or him. So he wants her to love him because he's GTY, not because he happens to be her husband. He's not asking her to be jealous, he's asking for some signs that she has feelings for him. This is where his knowledge about her first love really hurt, as he has seen her love someone else before, willing to risk everything for that other guy before, her not willing to risk anything on him right now (or at least he thinks so) just emphasizes the difference.

Exactly, he is not asking her to get jealous at all, but since she is not opening up about her feelings, doing the odd things like getting jealous is an easier way to show she is opening up.. 

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