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[Current Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] The Story of Ming Lan 庶女明兰传 / 知否?知否?应是绿肥红瘦

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7 hours ago, Golden Flower said:

Although I agree with most of what you're saying here, I just wanna clarify one thing. Empress's shen younger sister is NOT a princess though she might be a di daughter. Empress' family supposedly is not nobility nor her father is high official. They're from small town of Yuzhou prefecture where current emperor used to be prefect and general of small troop (like military governor). When she visited ML's house with her brother, she mentioned that she likes to be at ML's place as she can be herself not needing to worry about etiquettes. She didn't get along with other women from Bianjing as they considered her uncultured and country bumpkin. ML said lady Shen's personality is similar to her cousin Pin Lan. She is married to Zheng family and I'm not sure he is also from Yuzhou but ML mentioned Zheng family is well-educated.

@darkphoenix123 You are right, Lady Shen might become ML's friend as ML mentioned they got along well. Are you referring to Yu Yanran (eldest daughter of Yu family) whom GTY wanted to marry before when you mentioned Yan 3rd sister? 

 

Yes, the princess actually comes from a low status family, her family recently rose in power due to her bil becoming emperor. She is kind, naive and optimistic, which are good qualities, but she isn't suitable for the life at the capital. It's lucky she was married off into a good family with no inner chick fights. She could be natural with her man cuz that's how things are where she comes from. She's not afraid cuz she doesn't know.

 

2 hours ago, sava2sava said:

Okay I just have to get this off my chest.. First it was the evil MIL trying to bring others into the marriage just a day after the wedding.. Now it's the Dowager.. Is she trying to get back at GTY for QH.. I have never known in all my years of watching from Kdrama to Cdrama were the Empress gice out they servants to go be concubines.. Now she also trying to place spies in the house, Also QH it took on doing her petty biding without knowing it or did he.. Is this his way of getting back at GTy and ML.. As he still not thought about his own actions towards ML..       

 

There are many reasons to give a man women in that era, not all of them are negative. First, we gotta understand it is normal for men to have multiple women. Men who were faithful to their main wife could sometimes considered weak or scared of their wife. Main wives were supposed to be happy about that or she would be considered not lenient (most women had to pretend they were ok). Elders in families gave male juniors women so the family could have more babies born, or they don't want the wives to have control over their husbands, or they wanted someone on their side to become their juniors' favourites. Women were sometimes exchanged between men as embodiments of their cooperations. They were sometimes be given as gifts from someone at a higher status to men of lower status. These women could be used as spies or could serve many other purposes. Whatever the real purpose was, this action was coated with a pretty name (bestowal) and the recipients had to receive it with gratitude. The empress dowager and GTY are on opposite sides. QH is not that valuable to her that she would do sth for him. GTY is clearly on the Emperor's side so they are enemies, she did it own her own will with bad intentions. Women are not allowed to interfere with government affairs so she is trying to destroy GTY from inside of his home instead. QH is an honorable man and he would not resort to such petty methods to get back at someone.

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2 minutes ago, darkphoenix123 said:

The first one is cute. ML looks so shocked at being given the noble title but why was she given one?Just because GTY has become the Marquis?

Why did he pick up & spin around ML? 

Spoiler

Ml advised gty to let go of mn as a trap.. I guess they sent someone to follow mn in order to know the whereabout of chang'er. So, gty is happy with ml cleverness 

 

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3 minutes ago, darkphoenix123 said:

WTH? Is Manniang trying to kill Rong just so GTY will spend a night with her for more children?

Spoiler

Rong came to mn to ask about chang'er.. She's angry bcoz rong concerned more about her brother and jealous as rong stay in comfortable place with gty will mn life outside was hard 

 

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20 minutes ago, Suzzy San said:

Seriously from what everyone has been saying, you said it all.. ML is at this point just keeping receipts of the goodness she is receiving which thinking about it, it's so stressful.. To ML now, it's not about not trusting him, it's more about bot doing the best fro him.. They are so funny, on one hand GTY is thinking that he must shower her with more love, on the other hand ML is thinking of how to live upto his expectations that she has now try to make herself a perfect woman trying to make sure there is no fault in her.. So that explains how she doesn't want to show her jealousy or her insecure side because that is like having flaws, which is what GTY wants but ML thinks he just wants her to be perfect.. So funny where their misunderstanding lies.. I need their arguments noooowwww

I think by now ML knows pretty well what GTY wants, she is just reluctant to give it to him since she knows it would be her weakness once things go wrong.

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1 hour ago, linhlinh111 said:

The way ML is acting right now is according to Grandma's teaching and suitable for a main wife at that time. It's not just about SH or QH, bc they are the men representing the era, and that was how most men would act. ML is being realistic. I'm sure at the moment she cares deeply and trust GTY, she just doesn't believe his love could last. And I don't blame her. Anyone could change and any love could fade away. Men can be ruthless when they no longer care. ML and GTY are not in an equal relationship. GTY is the one in power and ML is dependent on him. He could walk away anytime without consequences while ML would lose everything. Even in the modern era I don't believe love could last, not to mention the period when men could have multiple women. I think viewers are romanticized their relationship too much and hoping they would act like in modern times but that is impossible. ML is feeling insecure bc of her status and position and she is basically living under GTY's protection so she's trying not to be demanding of GTY. GTY has big love for her now but she is afraid if she spends it luxuriously it will worn out. Her thoughts are very logical and exactly what I would be thinking if I were her.

Well said. When talking about doubts and insecurities in ML' heart, status disparity does play a role, apart from her emotional experiences. At that time, one important factor in marriages is 门当户对, meaning the two families of the couple should be of equal or similar social and economic status,  otherwise there would be potential problems or even tragedy. Case in point is the marriage between Marquis Gu and GTY's mother, a daughter of a salt merchant. No matter how rich her father was and how much dowry she brought to Marquis mansion, her social status was so much lower and bound to be looked down upon by the whole Gu household. It's not about individual morality, it's just the social norm. As a shu-daughter of a middle rank official, it's impossible for ML to not feel the pressure of this status difference in their marriage. So it's natural for her to act cautiously and not expect too much. It's not an equal match.

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32 minutes ago, darkphoenix123 said:

WTH? Is Manniang trying to kill Rong just so GTY will spend a night with her for more children?

I think she just wants to kill them all and try to pull some my son is the only one left card to inherit the gu family.. What a crap.. Or she is trying to torture Ronger into feeling guilty of enjoying while her brother is dead so that she will maybe distance herself from ML to spite her or she has just gone pure crazy for her defeat and trying to blame them all.. So stupid 

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The Empress Dowager is one of those typical rulers who doesn’t see the lives of their people only the status of the nobility it seems. She looks down upon the current a Emperor because on top of the new royals being “country bumpkins”, he doesn’t want to keep the status quo. Him and the Prince want to see reform which mean all those corrupt officials loosing their cash cows. To me, it’s because they lived their lives away from the palace and see first hand everything going on throughout parts of the empire. The Prince and GTY found all the corruption going on in the military and even ML saw what happened on the former Imperial farms. I don’t think that QH is purposely targeting GTY, but he is being used by the Empress Dowager.  She knows who to target to weaken the new Emperor. As those episodes foreshadow, more palace power struggles to come. I can see why QH would have that shocked look because the old GTY probably would not have stood up for those Gu members.

                   I thought that it was funny how she wanted to farm out her maids to the Emperor, Lady Shen’s household, and GTY. Trying to plant concubines/spies to disrupt the households. Luckily the Emperor was reducing the excess palace staff so there was an excuse to not take them. Poor Lady Shen would have been at a loss if ML hadn’t come up with the marriage idea. Loved that smile ML gave GTY when all those maids showed up. 

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2 hours ago, darkphoenix123 said:

The first one is cute. ML looks so shocked at being given the noble title but why was she given one?Just because GTY has become the Marquis?

Why did he pick up & spin around ML? 

GTY said ML was given the title because she is married to him and he requested the emperor. His biological mother bai shi also got one and apparently, the two-faced step-mom also got one. His biological mother noble title was requested by his oldest brother on behalf of their father before he passed away. He wrote the letter to the emperor the night before he had a long chat with GTY and gave GTY their father's will and all important documents related to the family. It wasn't mentioned who requested noble title for step-mom but ML said that she was with two generations of Marquis (father and oldest brother). So, it seems emperor just grant it to her since she was the wife of Marquis and mother of/raised two Marquis (oldest brother and GTY). 

Your second question was already answered by leeza77. ML gave GTY suggestion to find Chang'er by letting MN go but follow her closely. So, he was very happy and grateful for her suggestion. 

Edited by Golden Flower
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48 minutes ago, paras said:

Maniang has gone crazy. Wonder if we’ll see later, when they find Chang’er, what happened to them after leaving GTY. Wouldn’t be surprised if they blew through the money she hoarded with her brother and her brother tried using her to attract another man they could bilk for money. 

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21 minutes ago, matrim said:

Well said. When talking about doubts and insecurities in ML' heart, status disparity does play a role, apart from her emotional experiences. At that time, one important factor in marriages is 门当户对, meaning the two families of the couple should be of equal or similar social and economic status,  otherwise there would be potential problems or even tragedy. Case in point is the marriage between Marquis Gu and GTY's mother, a daughter of a salt merchant. No matter how rich her father was and how much dowry she brought to Marquis mansion, her social status was so much lower and bound to be looked down upon by the whole Gu household. It's not about individual morality, it's just the social norm. As a shu-daughter of a middle rank official, it's impossible for ML to not feel the pressure of this status difference in their marriage. So it's natural for her to act cautiously and not expect too much. It's not an equal match.

Yes ML definitely feels pressure from status difference, but what I wanted to emphasize more is the inequality between men and women (ML's thoughts were described carefully in the books so it's clearer). Take GTY for instance. He was very protective of Manniang before, even had children with her, but once he shook her off and ascended in his career, he became an eligible bachelor again and his value wasn't affected that much. If GTY were a woman, he would have been hanged or drowned for shaming the family's name (see Molan and Rulan). It's the same in his relationship with ML. He can love her or not love her, faithful to her or not faithful to her, his status and value wouldn't be affected at all, while her consequences would be severe if her reputation as a lenient main wife was lost. ML can never love GTY the way he loves her, not bc she doesn't want to, but bc she doesn't have that luxury.

 

37 minutes ago, darkphoenix123 said:

The first one is cute. ML looks so shocked at being given the noble title but why was she given one?Just because GTY has become the Marquis?

Why did he pick up & spin around ML? 

It's normal for a woman to receive noble title according to her husband or son, as long as the man requests it and gets approved by the government. There are occasions when the title is bestowed without being requested for certain political purposes.

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Hi, am long time lurker of this thread, love the drama so far ^^. I believe I remember reading some spoilers in this thread about Manniang and Changge and their eventual revenge/plotting as well as something about Manniang raising her kids to go against GTY or something, but can't seem to find that post (or it's possible that my memory is just bad, lol). Does anyone know what happened in the novel?

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19 minutes ago, hello210 said:

The Empress Dowager is one of those typical rulers who doesn’t see the lives of their people only the status of the nobility it seems. She looks down upon the current a Emperor because on top of the new royals being “country bumpkins”, he doesn’t want to keep the status quo. Him and the Prince want to see reform which mean all those corrupt officials loosing their cash cows. To me, it’s because they lived their lives away from the palace and see first hand everything going on throughout parts of the empire. The Prince and GTY found all the corruption going on in the military and even ML saw what happened on the former Imperial farms. I don’t think that QH is purposely targeting GTY, but he is being used by the Empress Dowager.  She knows who to target to weaken the new Emperor. As those episodes foreshadow, more palace power struggles to come. I can see why QH would have that shocked look because the old GTY probably would not have stood up for those Gu members.

The Empress Dowager had a point to dismiss the emperor as "country bumpkin", as he was not that ambitious as his son, Huan Wang the Prince. In earlier episode when discussing with GTY about the possibility of entering the capital for seeking chance in the power struggle, the Prince admitted it was his idea. And when GTY told ML the emperor was ambitious, had big plans to reform, she corrected him it was Huan Wang. I remember two scenes about the emperor. One is the assassination in the rice field, when the emperor admired the rice as the “most beautiful thing in the world”. Another is him plowing field in the palace after he became emperor. Two scenes conveying one message: all he wanted was a quiet country life. But his son Huan Wang was completely different. I feel the difference might develop into mistrust between father and son and be used by empress dowager.        

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26 minutes ago, huahuacaocao said:

Hi, am long time lurker of this thread, love the drama so far ^^. I believe I remember reading some spoilers in this thread about Manniang and Changge and their eventual revenge/plotting as well as something about Manniang raising her kids to go against GTY or something, but can't seem to find that post (or it's possible that my memory is just bad, lol). Does anyone know what happened in the novel?

 

Spoiler

I think that's what happened in the novel the boy was turned against GTY and ML i think.

 

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Yo that MeiNiang is godawful did y'all see episode 49 my gawd she's legit shameless, v. stupid. Btw does any1 kno what is happening with Chang'e??? Is he really dead or nah (I don't mind spoilers)

Note: I feel bad that Minglan is oblivious (border line insensitive???) to GTY's feelings, she basically told him to go sleep with another woman.... must be the onslaught from her bad dad and family, she doesn't want to put to much hope into her relationship with him but can't the girl see that she's hurting his heart so baddddddddddd esp. since they're such a cute couple. HE LURVES HER SO MUCH lah I really want their relationship to blossom. uwu 

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19 minutes ago, mingminglanlan said:

Yo that MeiNiang is godawful did y'all see episode 49 my gawd she's legit shameless, v. stupid. Btw does any1 kno what is happening with Chang'e??? Is he really dead or nah (I don't mind spoilers)

Note: I feel bad that Minglan is oblivious (border line insensitive???) to GTY's feelings, she basically told him to go sleep with another woman.... must be the onslaught from her bad dad and family, she doesn't want to put to much hope into her relationship with him but can't the girl see that she's hurting his heart so baddddddddddd esp. since they're such a cute couple. HE LURVES HER SO MUCH lah I really want their relationship to blossom. uwu 

It was a plan I guess.. She was like will their plan work and would MN not want something more other than that one night.. Like someone said, ML doesn't really know she is making him sad because somehow she believes he wants her to be perfect and also she also doesn't have that luxury to love him as much as he does her.. Plus I think she agreed to that night because it's to know where the son is. And anyways it's just a trick, so there is no problem in telling him to go sleep with her.. But if she really said it, it's not a surprise as that's just her trying to be the non jealous perfect wife she thinks will the marquis wife to have.. ML and her thoughts.. To be honest ML is naively strong and dedicated 

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39 minutes ago, mingminglanlan said:

Yo that MeiNiang is godawful did y'all see episode 49 my gawd she's legit shameless, v. stupid. Btw does any1 kno what is happening with Chang'e??? Is he really dead or nah (I don't mind spoilers)

Note: I feel bad that Minglan is oblivious (border line insensitive???) to GTY's feelings, she basically told him to go sleep with another woman.... must be the onslaught from her bad dad and family, she doesn't want to put to much hope into her relationship with him but can't the girl see that she's hurting his heart so baddddddddddd esp. since they're such a cute couple. HE LURVES HER SO MUCH lah I really want their relationship to blossom. uwu 

 

Spoiler

I think he died in the book due to malnutrition and trailers show GTY crying over a grave im not sure if hes dead yet but he will die.

 

 

you see it here she takes them to grave. 

 

 

 

What is being said between GTY and QH ;ooooo

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17 minutes ago, Lunkera said:

back to 1 episode tomorrow :( 

tv version previews

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

What does GTY say to QH? He doesn't seem to happy about it.Are they on opposing sides now?

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