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[Current Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] The Story of Ming Lan 庶女明兰传 / 知否?知否?应是绿肥红瘦

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6 minutes ago, hello210 said:

She doesn’t have the right to pass the title. If he wants GTY to marry his wife after he passes, it would be to maintain her and daughter’s status as wife/daughter of Marquis  That would be a way to protect her and probably assuage his guilt that she’ll be widowed young with no son. It would also kind of serve as revenge/reparation for his mom being divorced from his dad so that his dad can marry GTY’s mom for the money.  Maybe when episode airs, it will show that the teaser is just giving us the wrong context and that there is something else behind it like relieving ML of the craziness of their stepmom since he knew Stepmom has been after ML and it will be worse once GTY is Marquis. ML and any wife or future heir will be targets. Those are the only reasons I can see why he would even attempt to ask GTY to separate from ML. The craziness of their stepmom makes me wonder if she hasn’t been aiding in speeding up the brother’s illness and death. 

Doubt it.. He's not that honorable. He's a selfish man. If he asked gty to, just because of his wife.. Not for ml's sake 

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9 hours ago, RobinM said:

None of these idle rich women have anything better to do with their lives... they can’t have a career,  they can’t be formally educated, they don’t actually run the household or even raise their own children. They can’t even depend on a husbands support and soul devotion. The only thing left is scheme and make trouble for each other. 

 

Pitiful.  

 

I think If I am born in that time, I'll cross dress as a boy and run away to be a sailor.. Jealous women are truly scary creatures.. I would rather be a nun rather than getting married and join any HAREMS.. Maybe they are not concerned about STD at that time :joy:.. Most modern women like us would probably puke our heart out if we are forced to get married.. ROTFLOL :tounge_wink::joy:

 

27 minutes ago, danatepe said:

That`s right.But why can`t she fully trust him.I think she cant compare GTY with her father.they`re totally different!!!.but also in her head she didn`t know any men expect her father so she is like that with GTY.she like that he cares for his children that`s why she said i hoped my father with like you!!

I think that she is afraid that one day GTY will have a concubine and that`s why she can`t fully give her heart and open her heart to him yet.right? she`s afraid of being disappointment and having pain when that day come..right?

 

IMO, ML has developed trust issue towards MEN as her father (SH) is a failure.. Her heart was broken by her first love (QH) and even Dr He who was matched by her granny is a disappointment... Luckily her prejudices doesn't develop into misandry as she is still willing to marry GTY.. I think it is perfectly normal for her character to be guarded as she do not want to be sad because of men anymore.. Plus, people during that period of time lives in patriarchy system so she tries to be a good wife for GTY although she won't give her heart 100%.

 

Sigh.. I think ML is purely protecting her heart so I don't blame her for not giving all of her heart.. Perhaps, we will see how adversities and challenges will bring ML's heart closer to GTY.. 

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Wow this drama is going to end so soon. That's saddddd. I dont know what to do when it ends. Hope ML allows herself to love GTY soon, dont know but i would hate if this only happens towards the end. For me maybe in early 60s eps is good to let ML feel free to love and trust GTY so i can feel more at ease knowing that the last 13 eps ML was able to overcome that and that they both solve every misunderstanding. But for it to happens a lot have to happens within the 50s eps. This seems not it. I just hope its not around ep 70 where they finally solve their problems...

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In ep 43, why was GTY got so angry after he was soaked from the rain? I initially just thought its because ML knows it's going to rain but he is still got drenched anyway. But then when ML said that next time she will ride a carriage to pick him up so he won't get drenched, he said its not about this matter and told her he's going to patiently wait. 

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5 minutes ago, lyaarisa said:

 

 

Sigh.. I think ML is purely protecting her heart so I don't blame her for not giving all of her heart.. Perhaps, we will see how adversities and challenges will bring ML's heart closer to GTY.. 

Shes protecting her heart but shes lowkey breaking GTY's heart...even mine

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Been uncomfortable about the development of QH after watching episode 48 (TV version). As he was recommended by the empress dowager to handle clearing rebellion party, in many people's eyes he had chosen her side in the power struggle between the emperor and the empress dowager. He might be on the way of becoming an antagonist or be used to against GTY. Hope I'd be proven wrong. 

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3 hours ago, matrim said:

Firstly, by getting SH's daughters a good education I mean when they were taught for several years by Mr. Zhuang, a famous scholar along with their brothers, QH and later GTY. What Kong Momo taught them was very important for ladies but it hardly count as a good education in normal sense. As for SH's words, if I remember correctly GTY only said SH loved his honor more than his wife and children, he didn't say he would turn down GTY's proposal flatly. For a civil official, family honor and reputation was vital politically, so it's natural for SH to place honor above family affection, and that's why he got livid when he discovered Molan and RL's love affairs. He even tried to kill RL, hoping in this way to redeem family honor. Once the honor and family reputation got ruined, his career was then finished, so were his family prospects. For SH ignoring ML's marriage, I wouldn't say so. He knew ML was actually brought up by Grandma, so it's up to her to decide ML's marriage. Finally, I didn't say SH was a good father, only a reasonably good father, for he fulfilled his duty as a father reasonably well like I stated before, but failed in treating them fairly and hurt their feelings. And I did mention a prerequisite: judging from the standard at that time. I feel it's not quite right to judge a character in a period drama without considering the historical context. 

 

You are right in the sense in terms of education he is quite different but that is because i think the sheng is a scholar family so even though they might look down on female's somewhat its not as harsh as other families they do give more freedom at least from what ive seen. SO sure during that time doing this he was a decent father but that is as far as it goes sure he was not as bad as he could be but he was still not good. 

 

1 hour ago, dito said:

I haven't watched the episodes but from reading the comments and watching the previews it seems GTYs brother is tired of all the stress and fighting. He knows how the stepmom operates. He can't trust her. 

He also knows GTY most likely doesn't care for the title and only wants it to richard simmons off the step mom. Maybe he thought his wife and daughter may have a better future if he willingly gives up the title and GTY inherits.

And about asking GTY to divorce ML... I'm just guessing but maybe GTYs brother is telling him to divorce ML because otherwise she will face non stop attacks from stepmom all her life. And GTY won't always be there to protect her. 

GTYs brother really has no idea that ML is no ordinary woman and what kind of efforts GTY has taken to marry her.

 

 

14 minutes ago, leeza77 said:

Doubt it.. He's not that honorable. He's a selfish man. If he asked gty to, just because of his wife.. Not for ml's sake 

 

I actually feel quite sorry for GTY's brother hes been sick all his life , will leave his wife and daughter once he dies . He most likely got brainwashed early on against GTY by the step mother so hes quite pitiful. 

 

3 minutes ago, matrim said:

Been uncomfortable about the development of QH after watching episode 48 (TV version). As he was recommended by the empress dowager to handle clearing rebellion party, in many people's eyes he had chosen her side in the power struggle between the emperor and the empress dowager. He might be on the way of becoming an antagonist or be used to against GTY. Hope I'd be proven wrong. 

 

Is it a full blown power struggle between emperor and empress, will GTY be forced out by the emperor or will dowager force the emperors hand i wonder.. It does look like he will go to the dowager's side now but going against GTY family who were involved not a big enough certainty yet. 

 

If he really goes against QH its sad for his character but i still think it does suit what we have seen from show QH so far so still in character to me. 

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2 hours ago, matrim said:

And I did mention a prerequisite: judging from the standard at that time. I feel it's not quite right to judge a character in a period drama without considering the historical context. 

 

I agree we need to judge SH as a man of his time and he was not a bad father in providing materially.

 

That emotionally he favoured some children over others is true, but that's true even today when parents may blatantly favour one sibling over another for various reasons.

 

His biggest failing was 'spoiling the concubine and neglecting the wife' and this created the conditions for the abuse and death of Concubine Wei. Complicit is also Grandma who retreated and didn't enforce hierachy and rules. This is why she was berated by Kang Momo. If she had put her foot down SH would have been obliged to obey like we see him doing in later episodes. At the end of the day the household is run by women. 

 

 

 

 

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On 1/22/2019 at 4:09 PM, leeza77 said:
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Do you mean the brother asked him to marry his wife after his death in order fot gty to inherit the title.. Thus, ml has to be divorced/separated? But, the title sh. be gty's after his death automatically 

 

@sava2sava @minglan1 @hello210

The oldest brother is NOT asking GTY to marry his wife. He was asking if GTY would divorce his fa chi (original main wife) to protect GTY’s own family like his kids, his nanny, Shitou, his friend CB (not the others in Gu family). GTY then assume he was asking to divorce ML and he said he wouldn’t even if he is in deep trouble and has nothing left for him. He would not want a woman to take responsibility but he would use his own ability to fight himself to start anew. I think we’re assuming he asked GTY to divorce ML but we need to see the whole conversation to truly understand the brother’s intention. I think he was trying to explain their father’s predicaments when he divorced the first wife (big Qinniang, the oldest bro’s mom) to marry GTY’s mom (Bai Niang) to pay for Gu family's debts. Big Qinniang died from sadness after she was asked for divorce/ separation as she was very sickly.

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Episode 43: 

Their manor is really huge and beautiful. And why they always show them cleaning the bed sheets. Lol We get it already. :joy:

 

I dont see how ML have trust issues. I really can’t, just because she’s not flat out giving her all to GTY yet? I don’t get it. I believe she trust GTY with her life after all he is her life savior.. You don’t tell anyone your biggest darkest secrets if you don’t trust them? She told GTY things she never told even her granny before they got married... She trust him enough to marry him... She won’t marry just anyone... And granny won’t marry her off to an untrustworthy man... 

I think the real issue is that she is probably still shy in showing too much PDA and she is still warming up to GTY who has a big libido apparently LMAO... Because if she had trust issues she wouldn’t be capable of giving trust to anyone in the first place. But she has few people she trust already. She has friends she trust (Yanran) and family she has good relationship with. When it comes to outsiders, trust is a big thing you can give to someone. It’s not a candy. It takes time to build. She was able to trust the two maids introduced to her by her granny because she trust her granny’s words. She trust Xiaotao because she’s been with her for so long. She trust granny trusted maid because she’s been with granny. In conclusion she doesn’t have trust issues because of X factor. She is just someone who doesn’t give her trust like candy. And once you break that trust it’ll be hard to get back. That’s why when QH broke his promise she lost trust in him. It doesn’t mean she will not trust another man again.

 

ML is very clear headed and a very good at first impressions/judge of character. She is not weak. If she was how can she let go of her first love and move on happily?

She said it to granny herself she doesn’t need to get married she can travel the world and find happiness. In other words she doesn’t need a man to be happy. GTY is asking too much from her right now. He wants her to be foolishly in love or being lovey dovey 24/7 like how he is and don’t care about PDA. GTY knows a thing or two about romance. ML is a novice but she tries hard for him (when she’s wiping the rain off him/helping him get dressed/fighting his relatives etc.) but i think PDA it’s just not her thing... Lol But it’s cute how he acts so spoiled. And want to be spoiled by his wife. You can see the difference with ML and QH wife who got so jealous over the dolls. ML has a lot of self esteem. Thanks to granny for teaching her and raising her. She is not weak/fragile girl. 

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I like it when Ming Lan praised Gu Ting Ye that he had defended her so far whereas although Grandmother had said that Dr He was a good man but on the Cao situation he left her to sort that problem by herself.

 

Qi Heng defended Ming Lan love to eat when his parents gossiped that Ming Lan had made a General into an errand boy for exotic food.

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Well

28 minutes ago, cherubstomato said:

Episode 43: 

Their manor is really huge and beautiful. And why they always show them cleaning the bed sheets. Lol We get it already. :joy:

 

I dont see how ML have trust issues. I really can’t, just because she’s not flat out giving her all to GTY yet? I don’t get it. I believe she trust GTY with her life after all he is her life savior.. You don’t tell anyone your biggest darkest secrets if you don’t trust them? She told GTY things she never told even her granny before they got married... She trust him enough to marry him... She won’t marry just anyone... And granny won’t marry her off to an untrustworthy man... 

I think the real issue is that she is probably still shy in showing too much PDA and she is still warming up to GTY who has a big libido apparently LMAO... Because if she had trust issues she wouldn’t be capable of giving trust to anyone in the first place. But she has few people she trust already. She has friends she trust (Yanran) and family she has good relationship with. When it comes to outsiders, trust is a big thing you can give to someone. It’s not a candy. It takes time to build. She was able to trust the two maids introduced to her by her granny because she trust her granny’s words. She trust Xiaotao because she’s been with her for so long. She trust granny trusted maid because she’s been with granny. In conclusion she doesn’t have trust issues because of X factor. She is just someone who doesn’t give her trust like candy. And once you break that trust it’ll be hard to get back. That’s why when QH broke his promise she lost trust in him. It doesn’t mean she will not trust another man again.

 

ML is very clear headed and a very good at first impressions/judge of character. She is not weak. If she was how can she let go of her first love and move on happily?

She said it to granny herself she doesn’t need to get married she can travel the world and find happiness. In other words she doesn’t need a man to be happy. GTY is asking too much from her right now. He wants her to be foolishly in love or being lovey dovey 24/7 like how he is and don’t care about PDA. GTY knows a thing or two about romance. ML is a novice but she tries hard for him (when she’s wiping the rain off him/helping him get dressed/fighting his relatives etc.) but i think PDA it’s just not her thing... Lol But it’s cute how he acts so spoiled. And want to be spoiled by his wife. You can see the difference with ML and QH wife who got so jealous over the dolls. ML has a lot of self esteem. Thanks to granny for teaching her and raising her. She is not weak/fragile girl. 

Gty himself thought ml didn't trust him fully.. And ml also said she can't rely on gty 100% becoz he might like her now bcoz she is young and they are newly married. So, in this situation, both of them are not wrong.. One to eager for the other to trust him completely unconditionally whilst the other, becoz of past experiences has to tread cautiously, not able at this point to give her trust unconditionally and completely. What they need is time to be opened to each other and gradually trust completely. 

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23 minutes ago, Golden Flower said:

The oldest brother is NOT asking GTY to marry his wife. He was asking if GTY would divorce his fa chi (original main wife) to protect GTY’s own family like his kids, his nanny, Shitou (not the others in Gu family). GTY then assume he was asking to divorce ML and he said he wouldn’t even if he is in deep trouble. He would fight himself to start anew. I think we’re assuming he asked GTY to divorce ML but we need to see the whole conversation to truly understand the brother’s intention. Imo, I think he was trying to explain their father’s predicaments when he divorced the first wife (big Qinniang, the oldest bro’s mom) in order to marry GTY’s mom (Bai Niang). Big Qinniang died from sadness after she was asked for divorce/ separation as she was very sickly.

Spoiler

If that the case, then it sh ok. The big brother then may die peacefully. He got a scare in the middle of the night that make him chose side quickly. Luckily for him he chose our general gu and his trusted military adviser aka his little fox (ha ha.. Gty once called ml as his military advisor giving advice from her tent during the war)

 

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^ GTY “thought” but she does...

ML is absolutely right. For anyone actually, you shouldn’t rely on someone 100% just as you can’t rely on yourself 100%. That’s just too much pressure.... We know that man can marry multiple wives while woman can only be devoted to one. ML is clear headed and knows it well... She sees how loving and trustworthy GTY is but she will know later how devoted/loyal he is to her... She can’t predict that so to be that virtuous main wife, she already learning to accept the fact of life that man can have concubines. But that doesn’t mean she doesn’t trust him.

They just both need to find a balance. If GTY is anything of a real man he should have/practice patience and prudence in their marriage.

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16 minutes ago, Jackie1048 said:

I like it when Ming Lan praised Gu Ting Ye that he had defended her so far whereas although Grandmother had said that Dr He was a good man but on the Cao situation he left her to sort that problem by herself.

 

Qi Heng defended Ming Lan love to eat when his parents gossiped that Ming Lan had made a General into an errand boy for exotic food.

Well the general didn't mind and love to pet and and proudly spoiled his wife. And watching the wife eats with such passion and gusto, his sacrifice of his name and glory (be called an errand boy) is nothing. He got satisfaction from being able to satisfy his wife's love for food. Ha ha

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33 minutes ago, cherubstomato said:

Episode 43: 

Their manor is really huge and beautiful. And why they always show them cleaning the bed sheets. Lol We get it already. :joy:

 

I dont see how ML have trust issues. I really can’t, just because she’s not flat out giving her all to GTY yet? I don’t get it. I believe she trust GTY with her life after all he is her life savior.. You don’t tell anyone your biggest darkest secrets if you don’t trust them? She told GTY things she never told even her granny before they got married... She trust him enough to marry him... She won’t marry just anyone... And granny won’t marry her off to an untrustworthy man... 

I think the real issue is that she is probably still shy in showing too much PDA and she is still warming up to GTY who has a big libido apparently LMAO... Because if she had trust issues she wouldn’t be capable of giving trust to anyone in the first place. But she has few people she trust already. She has friends she trust (Yanran) and family she has good relationship with. When it comes to outsiders, trust is a big thing you can give to someone. It’s not a candy. It takes time to build. She was able to trust the two maids introduced to her by her granny because she trust her granny’s words. She trust Xiaotao because she’s been with her for so long. She trust granny trusted maid because she’s been with granny. In conclusion she doesn’t have trust issues because of X factor. She is just someone who doesn’t give her trust like candy. And once you break that trust it’ll be hard to get back. That’s why when QH broke his promise she lost trust in him. It doesn’t mean she will not trust another man again.

 

ML is very clear headed and a very good at first impressions/judge of character. She is not weak. If she was how can she let go of her first love and move on happily?

She said it to granny herself she doesn’t need to get married she can travel the world and find happiness. In other words she doesn’t need a man to be happy. GTY is asking too much from her right now. He wants her to be foolishly in love or being lovey dovey 24/7 like how he is and don’t care about PDA. GTY knows a thing or two about romance. ML is a novice but she tries hard for him (when she’s wiping the rain off him/helping him get dressed/fighting his relatives etc.) but i think PDA it’s just not her thing... Lol But it’s cute how he acts so spoiled. And want to be spoiled by his wife. You can see the difference with ML and QH wife who got so jealous over the dolls. ML has a lot of self esteem. Thanks to granny for teaching her and raising her. She is not weak/fragile girl. 

 

Well said. I like that school of thought too. 

But ML has told granny that she doesn't want to get to his bad side, makes life difficult.

 

Maybe lack of trust isn't the right word. 

Perhaps more reserved as a person. More of a closed book. Even with all the people around her, no one truly know what she's thinking most of the time. 

She doesn't say much about her plans, not even to the aunty. 

Even granny said once she can no longer know what ML is thinking (with her revenge) until the very end. 

CB knows that she's intelligent but doesn't like to say much.

During the debate, she has her own thoughts and conclusion about the situation, but would not say a word until she was being pushed to. 

She keeps her thoughts very close to her chest. 

It makes her unreadable, and to a very far extent, that made her dangerous. 

Indeed a lil fox with sheep's skin. 

 

Having said that, GTY is already one person that she actually divulge more to.

She spoke to him about the unfairness she felt, the injustice, her admiration of him to be a free person. Not many gets to see that side of her. 

But he wanted more. And she's simply not ready, or not the kind that would show all her cards...

 

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Qh's father and mother are right that

Gty and ml are perfect for each other

and wrong that  it's  Ml's  fortune not to be their daughter in law

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3 hours ago, m0us3y said:

I do wonder. 

I actually felt she does love him with her heart.

We see her concern for him. See how happy she is with him. 

We see how she's actually capable of acting like a child, being petulant and all with him...

But her mind wouldn't trust him fully knowing full well that she has everything to lose...

 

Exactly.. It's her mind that's not accepting the fact that she is in love, her heart is already in love with him.. But her rationality is that she can't fully rely on him.. I think it's not that she doesn't trust him she just doesn't want to rely or be dependent on him too much but they way she expresses her inability to rely makes it look like she doesn't trust or love him.. ML is complicated :joy:.. 

And truly she was really jealous about all those concubine issue but was trying hard to keep smiling and keep saying 'as long as they are good'. She is just deceiving herself at this point when it's clear to us viewers that she is jealous, it's not clear to the characters 

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6 hours ago, matrim said:

Firstly, by getting SH's daughters a good education I mean when they were taught for several years by Mr. Zhuang, a famous scholar along with their brothers, QH and later GTY. What Kong Momo taught them was very important for ladies but it hardly count as a good education in normal sense. As for SH's words, if I remember correctly GTY only said SH loved his honor more than his wife and children, he didn't say he would turn down GTY's proposal flatly. For a civil official, family honor and reputation was vital politically, so it's natural for SH to place honor above family affection, and that's why he got livid when he discovered Molan and RL's love affairs. He even tried to kill RL, hoping in this way to redeem family honor. Once the honor and family reputation got ruined, his career was then finished, so were his family prospects. For SH ignoring ML's marriage, I wouldn't say so. He knew ML was actually brought up by Grandma, so it's up to her to decide ML's marriage. Finally, I didn't say SH was a good father, only a reasonably good father, for he fulfilled his duty as a father reasonably well like I stated before, but failed in treating them fairly and hurt their feelings. And I did mention a prerequisite: judging from the standard at that time. I feel it's not quite right to judge a character in a period drama without considering the historical context. 

 

This is mostly what ML in the book thought about SH..... 

 

ML in the book was from modern times and after spending some time observing, she felt SH was actually not a bad father. He did care for all his children....not equally obviously...and he was also at times biased. But he was also a product of his upbringing. Still, he sincerely wanted all his sons and daughters to have a good life. Like spending time with his children after coming back from his work....looking over his son's lessons and essays from the class. Even the wives he chose for his son's were all sensible and kind women. 
His own wife was uneducated and ignorant in many things thats why he wanted his daughters to learn and become aware of the world outside of the house. While looking for the grooms for his daughters, the first thing he looked for was not the family wealth and titles but if the man was a good and a kind person. So that his daughter may have an easy life with him. 

He never desired something out of his reach and station. And this also made him a good and honest official in the eyes of the world.

Yes he cared a lot for his family honor and his personal honor because his career, his life, his family's life depended on him having a clean and honest reputation. And a man who didn't care about his family name and honor would be despised by world. 

Look at GTY, remember how his life was before he turned himself around. He was a pariah....no family was willing to marry their daughters to him. Even Sheng family advised their daughters to stay away from him. Not to forget SH telling CB to keep his distance from GTY.

So for me, SH may not be the best father or even a good father but he was not a bad one either. He took his responsibilities as a father and as the head of Sheng family seriously and fulfilled them to the best of his abilities. 

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3 hours ago, shem1 said:

Given ML's track record with the others who have tried to win her heart and her feelings towards her own father... the accumulated pain and disappointment has taken a toll on her fragile being. For the first time, she sees things in GTY that she had so desperately wanted to see in the men that were in her life before marriage. Now that "it's" in her hands and staring her right in the face... it's a miracle she hasn't run away already. 

What episode is this please?

 

I agree.

ML is just too wary of trusting another man so easily. She has only faced pain and loss by putting her trust in the men in her life. She put her trust in her father and lost her mother. She trusted QH and faced heartbreak and ridicule. Now it doesn't matter that she can see GTY's sincerity, her heart will remain on guard until GTY can break through it and convince her. And that is going to take time.

 

about bold....

I think next episode previews showed GTY's brother giving up the title to GTY.  

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