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[Current Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] The Story of Ming Lan 庶女明兰传 / 知否?知否?应是绿肥红瘦

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1 hour ago, dito said:

 

Oh man that has got to hurt him. Hearing ML say that his loving and caring might fade away as years pass. And so she won't allow herself to depend on him. Coz a wife always depending on her husband can become a burden for the husband. So ML does not expect any more from him. Expecting more will only lead to disappointment. And disappointment will turn into resentment and hatred with time.

I hope GTY realizes how much work he has to put in to earn her trust. Atleast overhearing all this, he will get an idea of how much damage has been done to ML's heart and mind by the men she trusted in her life. Her father being the biggest culprit, I think. Her mother lived and died unjustly.....and she saw her father do nothing and just carry on with life. 

I think there were some words in the trailer saying something about this. I don't know who says them...."In this life you can't depend on anyone.....Not your father, your brother, your husband or your son. Only person you can depend on is you, yourself".  

 

Don't forget that she grew up seeing how the male in her family treated the women.  One minute, you are lucky to have your husband paying you attention and then poof, that could all disappear.  She has experienced this with her mum where her father rarely ever comes to visit until she has to find ways and waited for him after the visit to grandma to get him to come for dinner.  Fo rher, men are unpredictable, you have to depend on your own self.  I supposed it explains why she is the way she is.  She is distrustful and her trust needs to be earned.  GTY will need to earn it. That's the challenge of marriage life even today.  This is why I like this drama because it potrays the ups and downs not just all sweet and roses.

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4 hours ago, leeza77 said:

@leeza77 WHo is that woman in the carriage with Minglan?  She looks like a nice person.

Seems like Minglan is facing many challenges what with more women being fobbed into her household.....Poor Minglan, I hope she persevere and stand firm and trust her man (GTY). 

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Sheng Hong has his flaws, but he's not the most horrible person. I understand why the audience must have resented him throughout the course of the drama, but in the drama we've only ever seen him dealing with matters in the household. And that's only one side of him. Novel Minglan has stated a few times that he may not be the most loving father, but he does fullfill his responsibilities as a father during those period. Up until CB started his officialdom, SH had been the sole breadwinner of the family and he makes sure that his family is well-fed and can live comfortably. Working as a court official is not easy, you have to balance your relationships, make sure that your reputation is clean, steer clear from faction fighting, but also try not to offend anyone above you and somehow still manages to get promoted. It's not clear in the drama, but in the book, it was said that after the rebellions, almost all noble families in the capital was more or less hurt, like lost their power and sometimes, their lives. Sheng house was one of a few families came out of the mess unscathed. Sheng house might be a mess, but because SH fullfills his duties well enough, at least they're a well-protected, well-off mess. Old madam has said a couple of times that he has always been wise and sensible when doing his job (but so terrible when dealing with his family). I'm not saying he's a good father, but it doesn't mean that he doesn't try.

 

And it's true that SH would never use his children for his own gain, all of the marriages he decided for his children, has been carefully calculated for THEIR best interest(s). Hualan: he chose her husband based on the guy's good qualities, his knowledge that the Count is a nice man and the fact that it's a Count family, so he thought Hualan wouldn't have to worry about money living there. The Count family had also been struggling for a while, they wouldn't be any help to him with his career, so you can say that this marriage he chose for Hualan was completely for her. Of course, with his streak of being oblivious with evil woman, he couldn't see that her MIL was evil. Changbai (I don't remember if it was granny or SH's choice in the drama, but in the book, it was SH's): he chose Hai Shi, who is from a "studious" household, so again, almost no help to his career, but the girl is well-educated and virtuous, and she has been proven to be an excellent choice. Molan: Scholar Wen, although poor, is a nice man with bright future. Since he's poor, Molan's status wouldn't be looked down upon and the family could protected her due to their higher status (too bad Molan won't ever understand how much he doted on her). And he's NEVER approved of any of his daughters marrying in to Qi family.

 

Also, remember when the coup happened and SH's didn't think twice to let his daughter escape first? He even respectfully bowed to the eunuch and said something along the line of "please take care of my daughter". I know she's the only girl there and letting her escape first may be was just common sense, but as I watched the scene, I believe that he does love her and when push comes to shove, he will protect her. Then at her wedding, both SH and Wang Shi teared up sending Minglan away. Small detail but it makes me believe that they may not love her the most, but they do care, enough to get emotional at her wedding. (I don't get why people think Wang Shi is angry at Minglan, There's no indication that she resent ML ever, she looked genuinely happy when ML greeted her and thanked her when she visited Sheng house 3 days after the wedding, didn't think anything ill of her until her witch sister whispered in her ears? I think to Wang Shi, Minglan is like a neighbor's daughter, she watches her grow up, likes her well enough, but gets jealous when she has better things than her kids, she'll always choose her kids over ML, but if there's no conflict, she will treat ML well).

 

Regarding ML's feeling to her father, I don't think that she hates him, more like she's been living in constant disappointment that she's numb and expects almost nothing from her father. Right now, I think she's still unconsciously craving some sort of affection from him. Like when she came home 3 days after the wedding, when she saw SH, her face literally lighted up and she smiled widely when she greeted her father. After being scolded for coming back home with too much fanfare, she was so upset that her husband noticed. I don't think she would be that upset if she hates him or doesn't care about him. Unfortunately, the biggest disappointment still has yet to come, alas the poisoning case. I hope the drama fixes it somehow, I don't want to see the relationship being completely destroyed.

Edited by gleek49
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36 minutes ago, ForgottenSoulx said:
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People will say QH's actions are out of character but based on the drama his character is totally in character. He never listens or thinks about anything and hes immature its not surprising he turns vengeful. I said this pages back this is where i think QH's character will go.

 

You are so right.. He doesn't think, he doesn't consider, he only wants what he wants.. So I think he is still in character too. He is just being QH.. 

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18 minutes ago, ForgottenSoulx said:

 

Lets agree to disagree

That goes without saying... :) 

 

 

And Big Madam is not a perfect wife and mother either. :lol:

 

Its called give and take. CW didn’t want attention from her husband only enough for them to survive but not enough so that they will be targeted by the jealous rats. ML was a child needing love and attention from her father but mostly she wanted him to be there for her pregnant mother. She didn’t listen to her mom and caused attention. Naturally the father took noticed and he saw the state they were living in. And he was furious and severely punished the maids for not doing their job and gave Big Madam back the power in the household. 

When CW died it’s so easy to point fingers at SH for not caring because he has the authority to diliver punishment and granny took a step back and watch. There was no evidence to prove that CL had the intention of murdering CW. How can he punished her by death or banishment? He punished those involved for negligence and CL has fallen favor for a while as well until her stunt at the ship. The thing that shocked me most but also took in consideration is that granny and her trusted maid most likely/possibly knew that CL was involved in the death of CW. Yet they never seeked justice/evidence for ML mother. Just like SH, granny cares about their reputation and harmony/well being of the family first and foremost as well. They all have a role and duty. That’s why they put importance in hierarchy or else it’ll be more crazy in the harem and household.

 

Like I said he is just a messenger and he presented the idea given to him as he has the authority to speak yet he cant come up with the best plans. Thus, he comes to granny for advice all the time and not just about ML but in the household and his career as well.

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I think one of the biggest blessing in disguised for ML during her path for revenge was SH disagreeing to hold a ceremony of some sort to help send off/appease the spirit of her mother. If her plan had followed through CL would’ve been on high alert. Instead of planning to trap 6th Liang son, her plans would be how to kill off ML. Of course being smart as ML is eventually it would come to light what happened back then. And that would’ve been the talk of the town. The one scathed would be her and CL. And not Molan and her mother. 

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1 hour ago, frenchfan said:

@leeza77 WHo is that woman in the carriage with Minglan?  She looks like a nice person.

Seems like Minglan is facing many challenges what with more women being fobbed into her household.....Poor Minglan, I hope she persevere and stand firm and trust her man (GTY). 

 

Younger sister of empress Shen. She visited Minglan’s house with her brother (国舅,general Shen, the one who was upset that he was decreed to marry Duke Ying’s daughter not too long after his wife passed away in rebellion) and fished together in today epi (DVD epi 44).

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7 hours ago, leeza77 said:
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From the trailer, qh has actually changed. He became vengeful and secretly take a shot to gty's family member, disguising as doing his duty as an officer. Gty didn't believe it, but ml suspects it. 

 

@fra8

 

Spoiler

In the novel, the sons of 4th and 5th uncles supported/ involved in 4th prince (Yan Wang) rebellion. They arranged for him to get women (I believe) so that he can bribe those generals who helped him in rebellion. In the trailer, both GTY and ML didn’t think QH was taking vengeance on Gu family. GTY even said that QH is righteous man who won’t abuse his authority to revenge and pressure others. ML just asked whether what his cousins did will implicate GTY. Actually, helping those cousins release from punishment was the reason GTY being able to ask those 4th and 5th branch families leave from Hou Fu and his oldest brother not adopting third brother’s son in the book, leaving Marquis title to GTY.

 

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These recent episodes have been so full of honey that I am just afraid of the bitter kola coming... But I really am looking forward to how thoe6storms will come and how they will show people the power couple they are.. GTY and ML can never be defeated like that, even though they didn't think QH can do that, they will still win at last.. A failure brings a grand success when one is determined 

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I just finished seeing episode 41 with subs & I can see how GTY can become insecure. She told him that if in the future he takes in concubines she will live with them in harmony as long as they are good people. You can see the disappointment on his face. In the TV version episode 44 he overheard her telling her maids that she won’t expect any more from him & his facial expression then was the same. I don’t blame ML for saying this & for guarding herself but all of this is going to make him more insecure

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9 minutes ago, darkphoenix123 said:

I just finished seeing episode 41 with subs & I can see how GTY can become insecure. She told him that if in the future he takes in concubines she will live with them in harmony as long as they are good people. You can see the disappointment on his face. In the TV version episode 44 he overheard her telling her maids that she won’t expect any more from him & his facial expression then was the same. I don’t blame ML for saying this & for guarding herself but all of this is going to make him more insecure

I understand why ML is like that, but the truth she is getting dependent on him and she keeps on saying she won't expect more or be too happy in order to guard herself but if my wive keeps saying all these all the time, I will be so sad too, I think GTY is more sad and worried about her, that she is not still free and totally putting her trust fully in him, than being insecure, he just wants her to confide in him and be happy always trusting him.. But ML is too traumatized that she is so afraid of putting all her heart out for someone.. So sad.. That's why I said, that fight is much needed and essential to break the final ice between them 

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Aw i feel so sad for GTY :( like people said why ML doesnt trust people cus of their experiences but it really saddens me that she doesn't fully open up to GTY, her husband and the man who care so much for her and love her so much beside grandma. I just wish ML will look pass her bad experiences and love GTY and trust him. I know she will later in eps but thats like towards the end. Im disappointed that she thinks one day his love for her will fade thats why she does not fully trust him omg my GTY :bawling:  im disappointed in ML for this. I wish ML would know that not every men will treat their wife bad like she saw when she was a kid to adult, now she is like viewing that all men and people are the same kinda. And then there's this one line she said to GTY i think when he ask for separation " then i dont want you anymore " ( if i read the translation right ) i know that she doesnt mean to say that to hurt GTY but i really feel hurt for hin when she said that. He already knows that she doesnt trust him fully and she said that too..ML is too traumatized like someone said up there. My heart breaks for GTY :heartbreak:

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6 minutes ago, leeza77 said:

Small gestures of concern...r u hurt.. Don't be cold

 

How do u always find all these clips that i thought i seen before but when i click on the link and suprised cus i havent see it hahaha. Only seen the short clip of this scene, this one longer.

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One thing GTY always be touching ML but ML is kinda moving away? Maybe she's shy or thats just how women act. I can kinda see myself moving away like that when the guy i like touches me but deep down inside i highkey like it :joy:

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9 minutes ago, leeza77 said:

Small gestures of concern...r u hurt.. Don't be cold

 

You know when you feel something inside you and you know that you feel that thing, but the you is someone that believes you have no right to feel that way. As such, you start to reassure yourself with different words that you do not and you can't feel it! I think ML is in this predicament now.. She has start to trust and love and care for him truly, but she tells herself it's not true and she coax herself with words to assure herself she is not truly relying on him or she has not trust him fully when her heart has subconsciously gave in for him.. What a sad life ML had and what a pitiful lady she has become. A lady that is in love but can't even dare to accept it herself not to talk of tell her lover.. I feel for both of them. ML was the one that made GTY open his heart again and I think he also wants to do that, but because ofhow ML has been saying he might not love her that much again, he is sad and worried that he wou9be able to open her heart.. So sad. But they are still very sweet 

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20 minutes ago, bulubulu said:

How do u always find all these clips that i thought i seen before but when i click on the link and suprised cus i havent see it hahaha. Only seen the short clip of this scene, this one longer.

Ha ha.. Fans weibo

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5 hours ago, cherubstomato said:

Well said. 

I don’t think that he only cared about himself... He is the head of the Sheng Family. He has a big responsibility in carrying the name and reputation of the Sheng household. He must put the families name first and foremost... He doesn’t make all decisions himself either. Every big decision he always consults granny. He never follows through a plan if granny doesn’t approve... Most importantly he is a clean minister. That alone already shows that he is an upright man and not greedy. Otherwise he would use his kids like pawns to gain personal merits to achieve higher position in the palace. If he falls the whole family will fall, if anyone in the family shames their name it’s not just him that is affected it is all the family. A great example of someone who is selfish and greedy is Molan and her mother. 

 

I agree that she doesn’t hate her father. Hate is a strong word and I just don’t believe she loathes him enough. After all if she did she wouldn’t feel a bit disappointed during the time Momo Kang was at their house and SH told ML to inform him if she suffers from unfairness again, but only to be swept off immediately after the commotion with Big Madam and Concubine Lin. ML being apathetic towards her father is not caused by hate but overtime being let down and trying to survive the manor she had grown accustomed to not hope for SH’s attention/affection. As long as she can live safely and well is all she wants.  

 

I love the part, athough ML denies it, GTY discribed her true feelings in the Sheng Household really well. She is aggrieved. 

 

Thank you! I thought nobody would agree with me. Looking from a modern POV SH was a horrible father but based on the context he was not that bad. He played favorites but he actually never tried to harm nor use ML. Tbh, ML's personality is not the type that evokes a man's pity, unlike Molan. ML is just a shu daughter without a mother to speak for her so she basically didn't appear in his eyes much.. 

 

SH is selfish to a point. He of course acts for the family's benefit, but he also did things that would harm the family's reputation on his own interest. For example he favored Lin and let her take control, overpowering Daniang, which is a very disgrace thing in a family with status. Reason was he felt threatened by Daniang, who was from a higher status than himself, and she was stubborn and did not know how to pamper him.

 

But in arranging marriage for his children he was quite a good father. First he didn't try to use any of his children's marriages for money or power (many men did that in the story). Second he didn't leave it for Daniang but took it to his own hands. He tried to choose the best spouses for their own interest. For example Hualan, CB, CF were good matches (all decided by him). Although Molan wanted to marry off to status, he was rational and picked a scholar for her (which was suitable for her position, but later went to Rulan). The thing with Molan, Rulan and ML was out of his control, but he handled it the best he could. In the end all of his children were happy (except for Molan but she got what she wanted).

 

I think ML doesn't hate him bc ML never targeted him. ML's main target earlier were Linniang and Molan and he just got involved in and was used by ML. After that she got nothing to do with him anymore. Even in the poison case she only pressures him to seek justice for Granny bc he doesn't want to make a big deal, when she get want she wants she doesn't touch him at all. If we look at him as a villain then he is a villain with the happiest ending ever. He end up in a high position, all of his children are successful, Sheng family rises in status, what more can there be? So I guess he is not considered a bad guy.

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7 hours ago, leeza77 said:

@Lunkera 

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Ml has yet to trust gty fully. Still thinks that is the lord and she is not in equal footing with him. Gty heard her say so to xiatao. Feel frustrated. This is the seed if doubt the plant the discord in their relationship. Qh is only the trigger. Not the real reason. 

http://p.weibo.com/show/channerWbH5/1034:4331015553145830

 

I'm aligned with you on this. 

If there's a fallout in GTY-ML, the root cause of it would be ML's distrust. 

Up to now, while ML opens up to GTY more than she did to anyone before him (except granny), we can see that she holds herself back still. Her thoughts, her feelings. 

A lot of times ML only tell GTY half truth. 

 

With her marriage, she's worried about his complicated family. But she's also anxious about him. Obviously she only told him about the former. 

 

Her life to date has been full of let downs, and disappointments. 

 

SH was a disappointment. He may be a good official, and a good person who protects his family and the family honor, but as a father, he failed, and failed terribly. 

He's unfair, unjust, and uncaring to ML. 

He was never there on the times she needed him most. 

QH was a disappointment. Made multiple promises in multiple occasions, but when things didn't work out, there was no explanation, no reason. Just disappeared and married the princess. 

Dr.He, as good a man he was, couldn't handle it when complications arise. Even when ML explicitly stated that she will not take the couz, he did nothing. 

 

Lest we forget, the embroidery that her mom left her. Not dependent on her family, not dependent on her husband, she fought and obtain glory by her own means. It was her mom's last message, rely on herself and survive...

 

It's a feeling I had all these while, that granny didn't only teach her skills to survive and navigate around treacherous waters, but also her moral bearings.

With ML's intelligence, and exposure to the ugly reality so early in her life, it's not hard to her to lose her moral bearings. She is the way she is because granny has nurtured and guide her along all these while..

 

But sometimes, in matters of the heart and soul, even granny couldn't help...

To her, it's about self protection. 

Don't hope, and there'll be no disappointment. 

Don't wish for happiness, and there'll be no sadness. 

Don't wish for love, and there'll be no hurt. 

Deep down, she's a child, hurt and in pain, with a lonely soul, believing that everything needs to be earned, that happiness is never her's...:tears:

 

GTY will need to navigate his way into her heart, and open it slowly. And she needs to learn to let him in, and learn to trust him, not to save her life, but to love her, and care for her for the rest of her life. 

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