[Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] The Story of Ming Lan 庶女明兰传 / 知否？知否？应是绿肥红瘦

[Golden Flower]

10 hours ago, deslynn88 said:

 

Part of me wonders if ML makes a big deal about this to Grandma on purpose.  She's complaining but I have a feeling she's secretly pleased at all the effort he put into his planning and wants Grandma to know as well.  We all know how she hides her real emotions very well from her family, even in front of her Grandma.

At that point, ML doesn't have feelings for GTY as lover. She feels gratitude towards him. When GTY told ML to say lucky words, she told him she will wait for him before going to rescuing emperor from rebellion. He then replied to her saying I must come back if you're waiting for me with suggested undertone as if male and female waiting, she corrected saying "I didn't mean that". 

ML fell for GTY's proposal during their second alone meeting, the conversation at the end with him bowing and saying he will treat her equally (she will get what he will get), he has admired her for a long time and he is sincerely requesting her hands for marriage to live together till old age and death.

Also, a lot of people trying to guess ML's feeling after finding out GTY asks for RL's hands. I do not think she was feeling upset and she shouldn't be. She herself was in this limbo potential marriage with Dr. He that she would not stop and think "why GTY is not asking for me" plus she hasn't seen him in that way yet.

[minglan1]

1 hour ago, Golden Flower said:

@jewelsc @dito @frenchfan @darkphoenix123 @minglan1 @samanatha_xyooj

Again, I'm not trying to defend QH as I never consider him as second male lead and part of love triangle while listening to the book. I also do not like the way the writers have started writing QH in these upcoming episodes. However, I just wanna clarify some stuff for those who hasn't watched the recent episodes and previews with sub. I'm only discussing up to the point of his conversation with GTY in preview and try to reason QH's thoughts by being in his shoes.

Before I start with QH, GTY as a character has been pretty lucky in the way of gaining his military achievement very quickly (both in the book and drama) (not saying he has no good qualities, he did not make any efforts or he did not suffer) as well as in chance of saving ML i.e. leading to having open conversation with her (in the drama, 4 times is pretty damn unbelievable chance-encounters) and being close friend with her brother who knew and trusted GTY well. In TV epi 38, WS (Daniang) actually said to SH and CB that she would like RL to marry GTY not only because he changed his way and attitude in living and dealing things but also because he has good luck that she believes will continue to "bring luck" to the marriage i.e to RL eventually. She said that who would have thought Zhao, Prefect of Yu Zhou, whom GTY gave his allegiance to would become new emperor since he is just a distant imperial relative (even script writers already said so   ). In addition, (others and I have mentioned before) GTY had advantage of age, life-changing experiences (both good and bad) and monetary independent compared to QH. I'm also not saying things turned out this way because GTY is male lead (of course, we all know at the end he is the male lead and the writers wrote things that way). I'm only discussing for individual character at this time point. I like GTY character as ML's husband and the fact that he is the one who can protect and give ML the life she wanted but I just did not think GTY is better than QH as a person or as in the effort in pursuing ML for marriage (at this point).  [Please I'm not arguing about who deserves ML or who is suitable for ML!]

 

Thus being said, (1) I do not agree that QH missed the chance to be with ML because he did not take GTY's offer of temporarily kidnapping the princess. From QH's point of view and experience with Yong Wang family, it will bring disaster to ML and his family if princess was kidnapped even if YW could not connect anything to Qi and Sheng family when YW became emperor. Nobody could predict that there will be rebellion, and YW will be dead. (2) I don't believe QH thinks that he is ML's center of being and expect her to wait around for him. First, after being married to princess and resigned his life to fate, he already thought of ML marrying another guy, leading him to wish for her meeting good suitable person. Secondly, QH had his own reason for waiting around to propose ML again. He regained hope in being with ML after his princess wife passed during rebellion, but his mom was not in good mental health after needing to pretend being crazy and being ashamed by Long Fei by asking her run around in the streets like a lunatic. So, I assume that Qi family recluse themselves into their home disconnecting themselves with others due to their circumstances. It is also tradition that you have to wait for a year before marrying again in addition to being imperial mourning time. In his conversation to GTY, QH said that he regretted promising and letting ML's know ahead of his plan of proposing to her hands in marriage before it was certain. Since he hurt ML in his first attempt, he waited to let her know of his feelings and plan, by making sure his mom's approval by passing imperial exam before the proposal. GTY was lucky to find out about ML's marriage prospect from CB and was able to bring Cao family back from exile (grandma already snapped at Cao aunt that it is unbelievable that they are back at the capital and getting support from relatives being exiles (If GTY didn't have connections and authority, Cao family would not be able to come back to the capital without being arrested). 

(3) Although QH's main mistake of being late in this proposal was not communicating with ML openly, ML never really gave QH any opportunity like RL did for Wen scholar even from the beginning of his courtship. They never really had the opportunity to have heart-to-heart talk like ML and GTY, and RL and Wen scholar. He was never able to share with ML about the hell he went through in protecting ML and Sheng family. As mentioned in #2, he felt terrible for letting ML down first time.  Filial Piety being the most important societal value of the time, he needs to recover his parents' lost reputation by passing the imperial exam though his mom already said his marriage is now up to him even before he takes the exam. 

So, it was "timing" that has been gone wrong for QH. This remind me the Chinese saying "marriage is meeting suitable person at the right time" 

(4) I do not believe QH was being inconsiderate for asking GTY to withdraw his proposal. Yes, it is not fair of QH to ask GTY to give up ML. However, at this point, QH was told by his mom who was told by grandma that GTY ended up being betrothed to ML as he came proposing marriage to Sheng family just after RL was betrothed to Wen family. I think that's why QH said to GTY that "it is not like you have to marry ML, it is not like she is THE ONE for you." He didn't know GTY already admired and fell in love with ML. Also, since the marriage hasn't happened yet, if GTY is willing, being a male and emperor favorite, he can still withdraw his proposal and Sheng family can accept QH's proposal.  This way Sheng family won't lose their face. He just didn't know GTY's scheme to marry ML.

In his conversation with his mom, he was shocked and pissed as he never thought in his mind that GTY would ask for ML as GTY's feeling for ML wasn't known to him, ML being a shu daughter (GTY said before that he would only marry di daughter) and he didn't know ML is now considered di being recorded under Daniang. Also, in his mind, ML does not love GTY and at least have feelings for him. 

 

This is just my thoughts being in QH's place. After he found out GTY also admires ML and ML already made up her mind, if he plans to prevent the marriage or continues pestering ML after marriage, his actions are out of logic for his character and just became plain obsession. 

 

 

 

@GoldenFlower  I enjoyed reading your perspective on QH.It is refreshing.

I don't dislike QH but I find GTY's character being fleshed out better with time.

QH has strong conventional beliefs like filial piety  which override even his thoughts of just actions.(We did get a glimpse of his thought process during the debate about choosing an heir).

 

He didn't  jump in to save Buwei,his closet confidant who was just carrying out his wishes wrt romancing ML.He wanted to but he didn't because respecting his mother's decision and authority was the right thing to do per conventions of those times.

I don't grudge him too much about marrying the princess because his trump card of killing himself didn't work.

He at least tried to fight for the person he cares about at this point..

 

Given his views and disposition if he married ML and a situation arose where he had to stop supporting ML for his clan/ household, he would do it even if his heart bled.

If his mom did not acqueisce to his proposal of marrying ML at this juncture,I doubt if he would have ventured into relooking at matrimony with ML.

 

He can feel heartbroken about GTY and ML being a couple but he has to take it in his stride. You can't  pick up a relationship abruptly from where you left as a lot of water has flown under the bridge and things can't  remain same forever.

I also hope like you he doesn't end up having a ML obsession.It would be a let down.

[dramaninja]

25 minutes ago, tomo74 said:

I understand why QH got upset with GTY (for chasing ML), I ask a question to you all, how do you feel if your friend (I'm not sure how close QH with GTY, but the closer the worst) going after your ex (we can say ML is QH's ex) who you still have feeling for? like there are so many girl out there but why you want mine, and in this case, GTY knows exactly QH's case (gave up ML because for her safety, not because he doesn't love/want her anymore). I'm not taking any side (GTY or QH) just not biased toward certain character.

Well he was already marry so he does not really have a say who she marry right?

 

He does not get to have her always in his back pocket like that like she is some runner up prize.

 

No thats not fair to her.

[Lunkera]

@minglan1 If ML had married into Qi household she would suffocate. QH would still lose to his mother in the end. ML would have to carry her facade for the rest of her life and be under the control of her mother in law. That's why i think GTY suit ML better.

[Golden Flower]

7 hours ago, m0us3y said:

Part of me felt he's a lil delusional. 

He probably thinks that even after his marriage, ML would wait for him...

And to say GTY isn't good enough for her...because what he heard about GTY from others?

Then maybe he should reconsider ML too because everyone in the capital were also saying that ML was first after the Qi family, and when that failed, went for Liang Family...without shame. 

He needs to be able to make his own judgement and not believe everything he hears. 

And to think that previously GTY vowed to help him at all costs...

 

I think in the preview as well, in the conversation between GTY/ QH, GTY did mention he did all he did because of her. (Not sure he meant his elaborate "scam" , or everything from going into the army and rising up the ranks so that he can go after her). So he has done a lot for ML too and will not give her up. If he meant the latter, he truly has gone the distance...

From which previews or trailer did you guys get that QH said GTY was not good enough for her? I didn't see that in preview links posted here or youtube preview epi 39 & 40. 

We as the viewer we have to take what Liang 6th said about ML being QH's concubine with a grain of salt. He doesn't like ML and he has been giving excuses to his son not to marry her. Liang Mama even brushed off his accusation. If there are really rumors like that in town, I do not think that Liang Mama will still let her precious son marry ML even if she likes ML a lot.

 

GTY did not say he did scheme to QH. He just said it poetic way that he made all the efforts and worked hard to get ML.  

[tomo74]

5 minutes ago, ForgottenSoulx said:

 

Well i for one dont disagree with what QH is saying to GTY in that scene it makes scenes from QH's pov but we have just seen alot of GTY so were obviously biased towards him. QH in that scene is right to say what he said considering he still loves ML and GTY has had a bad rep and he obviously knows QH likes her still. He can get upset here but after they are married he really need's to let go, if he turns vengeful i will be annoyed towards the writers. 

I haven't reach that episode to knowing what exact words QH say to GTY, I just feel uneasy when people start judging QH, we all know at the end ML with GTY, but no need to say bad things about QH to prove that QH is not the right person for ML, like I said before, the script give GTY a lot of favour (he has very smooth career, always at the right time to be the same place where ML need help, got closed relationship with new king, he clean up his mess, etc) so even me also start liking GTY. Just give QH a fair understanding rather than mocking him "you're stupid, you're wrong" etc like many people do

[tomo74]

12 minutes ago, dramaninja said:

Well he was already marry so he does not really have a say who she marry right?

 

He does not get to have her always in his back pocket like that like she is some runner up prize.

 

No thats not fair to her.

I'm not talking about ML, I'm talking about QH's feeling, how he feels when his friend going after the person he love, and for ML, it doesn't mean there are no other good man beside GTY, it will be unfair for ML if GTY is the only man left, and QH block GTY so ML can't get any man, if you get what I mean.

[Lunkera]

Making of the scene where ML runs from soldiers   and Molan scene

Spoiler

 

 

[tomo74]

14 minutes ago, Lunkera said:

Making of the scene where ML runs from soldiers   and Molan scene

  Hide contents

 

 

I noticed that ZLY can run quite fast, it's kinda cute, petite girl with long dress (outfit) run like that

[Lunkera]

@tomo74 I found her running quite funny ^^

 

 

 

Sorry if this has been posted. It was posted around dec 24. But there is a scene that continues a few seconds after the preview for 39-40 when GTY and ML talk. The scene where GTY bows to her and she laughs( which wasn't in the preview).

Spoiler

 

 

[m0us3y]

49 minutes ago, Golden Flower said:

From which previews or trailer did you guys get that QH said GTY was not good enough for her? I didn't see that in preview links posted here or youtube preview epi 39 & 40. 

We as the viewer we have to take what Liang 6th said about ML being QH's concubine with a grain of salt. He doesn't like ML and he has been giving excuses to his son not to marry her. Liang Mama even brushed off his accusation. If there are really rumors like that in town, I do not think that Liang Mama will still let her precious son marry ML even if she likes ML a lot.

 

GTY did not say he did scheme to QH. He just said it poetic way that he made all the efforts and worked hard to get ML.  

I thought I read someone translated them. Could be me being delusional too! 

I went back to re-watch the preview and U are right, I can't see it there. 

Just the trailer which a chingu helped translate but that's after ML/GTY marriage about he misses her and GTY not being good enough.

 

On the scheme, I know he didn't mention that to QH. GTY only said he has also done a lot to get ML. I was just thinking if he only meant done a lot in terms of his elaborate scam or if he actually meant more. 

[dito]

6 hours ago, crackaddict said:

This thread moves so fast. I'm on winter vacation and still can't catch up. By the time I check any of my alerts, it's too late to respond because the conversation has been pushed back a few pages. It's interesting that ppl are still discussing QH with such intensity. I feel like ZYL is a good actor, but QH is written as a blah character...even very minor characters like Shitou and Xiaotao are funnier and cuter. Perhaps, it's because I'm old that I don't really care about princely characters and love lines with too many seemingly insurmountable obstacles.

In real life, people have lives after all. Wait, maybe I answered my own question. I guess it can be entertaining to watch other ppls drama. 

 

Yes, ZYL is a good actor. He has given more depth to QHs character actually. QH in the book was typical side character with unrequited love for the main lead. Loving ML maybe the only exciting thing he did in his life. 

Lol These days just the thought of sitting through hours/days of watching a story like that makes me feel tired. 

 

 

3 hours ago, sava2sava said:

@dito  Which spoiler site you read this from I would love to check out whats been posted there..  Yes but I can see how people are associating it being connected to her being it was the same method used on ML mom and probably all of these complicated births didn't start not until she entered the home.. 

 

I read spoilers for books I'm reading on this site. You can also find links for translation sites on the main site. This is the thread for spoilers for Legend of Minglan.

Spoiler

https://forum.novelupdates.com/threads/legend-of-concubine’s-daughter-minglan.23420/

 

1 hour ago, minglan1 said:

NiF is on my list to watch.Since I am enjoying story of minglan.I want to give it a try after this drama ends.

 

You must. Its one of the the best chinese dramas ever. You'll understand why people here were calling ML Mei Chang Su few pages back. If you loved how ML brought downfall for concubine Lin and Molan.....you'll love this drama a lot.  Just stick with it even if you find first few episodes confusing or boring. I promise, it gets better and awesome pretty soon.

[Golden Flower]

6 hours ago, sava2sava said:

I have to comment on SH behavior, Now he caught Molan in the act with another man and yet we didn't see him breaking out the white cloth for her to hang herself.. But yet he does this to the main wifes daughter all he did was sent  Molan to the ancestor hall for her to repemt after he lost face.. I say he really got his family discipline very well so well that both of his so called obedient daughters search out men for themselves.. And once again they want to try and push the man for ML to have.. You can't blame Granny if it wasn't for her ML probably would have been married to the worst tiger in town if it would save the shame the house of Sheng would have to face.. 

 

This is the result of the drama writers trying to portray parallel events (Imo, they're creating lowkey black comedy in a way of parents needing to go to grandma asking for ML whenever their other daughters create problems and destroy family reputation). The drama added the detail about Liang family asking for ML as main wife to take Molan as concubine.  Although Liang Mama also loves ML in the book, Liang 6th never met ML before since there were no polo matches in the book and male and female guests are separated at the gathering events. Liang 6th actually regretted a little at his wedding when he finally met ML. (In the book, ML is the most beautiful and elegant daughter).

I think the writers trying to dramatize more by SH trying to strangle RL as this is the second time him and his family image has been ruined (second time, double the anger). Another reason he didn't go that far with Molan was because Lin Yiniang pulling all her tricks of crying, fainting and reasoning with things like her son's pending imperial exam. SH was still in love and believe LYN married him because she truly loved him. Rulan did not saying anything or ask for forgiveness and WS just cried.  

 

3 hours ago, Maria Brimstone said:

Okay, after watching the interactions between GTY and the new Emperor and his son...that son seems a bit power hungry? He was totally gunning for the throne? Is he ever a problem for the Dynasty in the future?

I think he is just braver than his father since he is young. He just doesn't like the idea of laying low and hiding as well as seeing his father not being able to sleep in trying ways to protect his family's life from people trying to eliminate his family. 

 

@zenya22 I just want to point out minor error in your post regards to GTY, his father and spear dance. GTY got failed the exam by emperor is not because he went drinking after the exams and criticized imperial scholar.  When he was 12, he told his older brother at the study of their house that emperor punishment of the scholar (forget the name), by not letting him pass the imperial palace exam till after he was 50 for visiting brothels and entertainment centers a lot, was not fair. His older brother then let emperor know about GTY's criticism towards the emperor somehow. 

 

@yhl0802 After rewatching part of episode 5 to check something, I saw something that I didn't pay attention before. Starting from 23:50, you will see ML tracing QH's shadow while he was reciting his essay standing up. You can see that she already starts having feeling for her though she has been hiding her crash on him very well. 

 

Spoiler

@m0us3y (may be I quote you wrong) and others who are saying regards to why GTY trying to rush his marriage after he came back from war after rebellion. GTY decided to push forward with his grand scheme in getting ML's hand in marriage is because he is worried that new emperor will decree marriage to him as he becomes new emperor's close associate. Empress brother (known as country uncle) who was also a general (they went to war together) just received decree to marry di daughter of Duke Ying though his wife just recently passed away in protecting his sister empress during rebellion. 

 

[m0us3y]

@Golden Flower I don't think I mentioned GTY rushing the marriage but that was good info regardless! 

 

[hello210]

1 hour ago, Golden Flower said:

From which previews or trailer did you guys get that QH said GTY was not good enough for her? I didn't see that in preview links posted here or youtube preview epi 39 & 40. 

 

There was a subbed version of the love triangle trailer that translated the conversation between GTY and QH that way. At least that’s where I saw it,I think it was posted by someone way back before the drama started. 

[gleek49]

4 hours ago, Maria Brimstone said:

Okay, after watching the interactions between GTY and the new Emperor and his son...that son seems a bit power hungry? He was totally gunning for the throne? Is he ever a problem for the Dynasty in the future?

 

Did the wives of all the military heads all make it through the rebellion? Or were they all killed in that room?

 

I think the son is can be better as an emperor than his father, he's ambitious, smart, seems righteous and reasonable enough. The father on the other hand, is wayyy too paranoid.

[m0us3y]

25 minutes ago, hello210 said:

There was a subbed version of the love triangle trailer that translated the conversation between GTY and QH that way. At least that’s where I saw it,I think it was posted by someone way back before the drama started. 

So I wasn't delusional? I tried looking through the thread but couldn't seem to find it now...

[gleek49]

3 hours ago, Maria Brimstone said:

 

RuLan marrying the scholar likely will not please her father at all. And definitely not the mother lol. The poor scholar with the farming background is the candidate Sheng Hong found to marry MoLan. He was fit for marriage to an illegitimate daughter but definitely not the legitimate daughter.

 

Sheng Hong was not pleased, not because of the scholar's background but mainly because of the way their relationship was exposed, it was humiliating for him. Wang Shi was definitely not happy with his background. But after the whole fiasco, when the girls' marriage matches were settled, the scholar came to Sheng house to apologize and profess his undying love to Rulan. He was SO passionate and convincing that both parents ended up in tears and sincerely blessed their union. Or in Minglan interpretation, only Wang Shi was truly touched, Sheng Hong only used this opportunity to play the role of a good father, since he couldn't change the fact that Rulan had to marry the scholar anyway, he might as well compromise to give himself a good reputation and defuse the tension between parents and the young couple (Book!Sheng Hong was really selfish and cunning).

 

I doubt we'll get to see this play out in the drama though, which is a pity.

[leeza77]

33 minutes ago, hello210 said:

There was a subbed version of the love triangle trailer that translated the conversation between GTY and QH that way. At least that’s where I saw it,I think it was posted by someone way back before the drama started. 

Spoiler

Qh did question gty suitability to ml and implied to gty that ml didn't want to marry him. As a good friend to gty, he should be happy for gty for finding a good person to marry and not questioning him so.

 

[hello210]

1 hour ago, gleek49 said:

 

I think the son is can be better as an emperor than his father, he's ambitious, smart, seems righteous and reasonable enough. The father on the other hand, is wayyy too paranoid.

Based on what I read about the Northern Song Emperors, if they did use Emperor Renzong as the basis for the old Emperor, then the new one (Emperor Yinzong) died after ruling for about 4 years or so I think and his eldest son (Emperor Shenzong) succeeded him. That was someone’s guess in an earlier comment as to which Emperor they were basing the old one on since Emperor Renzong was the Northern Song Emperor who had to choose an heir among his royal relatives due to his son all dying young. It also matched up since Emperor Shenzong and his line are descendent of Emperor Taizong and that’s who the son said they were descended from in ep34. We’ll see if the drama plays it out. 

       However, royal descendants always have a sense of paranoia as you see in all those palace dramas. Competition isn’t only among the women but also among the sons for the throne and many will kill entire families to ensure their success so he had a right to be paranoid. Even though he wasn’t vying for the throne, he and his family were targeted.