[Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] The Story of Ming Lan 庶女明兰传 / 知否？知否？应是绿肥红瘦

[Golden Flower]

2 hours ago, Sirry Usly said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQGIX0aD-gg&t=1904s

 

So in this uncut version the Emperor faints...I have some guesses as to why but I was wondering if anyone knows exactly why he faints. 

The emperor was reported his elite army has lost a lot of soldiers to the point of almost gone. 

 

Spoiler

I'm pretty sure he was pretending to be fainted.

 

@minglan1 The one attacking ML is not noble concubine Liu BIL. He is the one sitting next to her in longer preview when emperor was talking to her. 

[minoku2209]

iQiYi weeking ratings 4th to 10th February.

Well done TSoML team.. at iQiYi ratings also remain #1

 

[matrim]

57 minutes ago, Golden Flower said:

I have quoted you on page 257 in the post explaining Molan's thoughts and attitude towards ML from childhood to current and I included those facts.

In today's episodes, Molan shouted at her husband asking him whether he still wanted to marry ML whose life was over having insulted to emperor after he confronted her of Lin Yi Niang and her setting him up to have affair and her involvement in killing concubine Chaunke's child by making fetus big by giving food with so much nourishment in order to have difficult delivery.  This indicates that Molan has inferiority-complex towards ML and hates her for ML being chosen as DIL by her MIL and her MIL, Madam Wu didn't even want her when her relationship with Liang Hong has already been known. 

I already posted answer in my previous post. 

Duke (Guo Gong)> Marquis (Hou) > Count (Bo jue) similar to Earl (in Europe) are all nobility titles given to ministers who were involved in establishing the dynasty or who have done many merits for the country or to the descendants of previous emperors' sons (only the eldest di son can inherit the hereditary wangye title and fife from their father, younger son are given nobility titles) or male family members of Empresses. The titles are given according to the level of merits you contributed to the country. Each person with nobility title was fed (from tax) by a fixed number of households.

In Song dynasty, these three nobility titles are subdivided but I'm not sure having additional bestowed name is higher than not having one. GTY's full Marquis title is Ningyue Juan Hou instead of Ningyue Hou (from freaking long decree today which mentioned all his titles including his positions from salt inspection tours, taxable household, his merits, his wrongdoings mentioned with difficult idioms). Juan is usually used to indicate lesser title. eg. Juan Zhu princess is lower than Gong Zhu princess though in English there is only one word. QH's father is a duke (highest title) not because he is married to QH's mom who is Juan Zhu. It is his family hereditary title for ancestors being contributed to the country. However, Qi family doesn't have additional bestowed name. Ying Guo Gong has additional bestowed name "ying" since his last name is Zhang.

Gong Zhu> Juan Zhu> Xian Zhu (County Level princess)

QH's mom is Juan Zhu not by birth (not relative to imperial family Zhao). Her father is a Marquis who sacrificed his legs for the previous emperor and thus she was given 2nd grade level princess title with bestowed name "Pin Ning" (only mentioned in the book). QH's first wife is County level princess (third grade level) though being a daughter of a prince (may be cuz she is not really emperor's granddaughter).The daughters of princes and nobilities won't be given Gong Zhu (highest level) which are only reserved for emperor's daughters. In Song dynasty, emperor's daughter princess have just bestowed names as their titles but in Qing dynasty (last dynasty of China), there are two levels of princess among emperor's daughter Gong Zhu (Gulun being daughters of empress and princess favored by the emperor and Heshuo being born from consorts and concubines). 

There are similarity and differences among dynasties and you can read further here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_nobility

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_and_noble_ranks_of_the_Qing_dynasty

http://www.chinaknowledge.de/History/Terms/wujue.html

 

When ED sent eunuch to pick up ML, GTY already left for the war and was already missing and assumed dead as the whole group who went with him were swallowed by sandpit. Emperor fainted when he heard the news of the whole army being lost. Zhang shi came to ML's house and told her GTY was missing and even her father YGG cannot be contacted anymore. So, ED didn't ask ML to go into palace not to kill GTY or both but I don't understand the motive at this point. ML did not go with eunuchs but arrested them as she realized that they are not from empress palace though they said they were. She also asked his servants to notify other ministers and officials families of someone faking emperor and empress decree to bring their family into the palace to protect them from rebellion. 

@martin @dito The writers kept the part about ML being part of family members of ministers who are against ED who were taken by ED people. However, currently, in drama, GTY is just a foot soldier, missing, assumed death and she is not even a noble lady. Also, why do they have ED soldiers as well as masked assassins from stepmom's side coming and attacking Chen garden. Also, I don't understand why there were no one guarding the entrance of Chen garden from stepmom's side though ML told them to guard well so that no one outside of her families and aides can go in and out when Xiang mama came to invite her. If I remember it correctly, fhere were only assassins in the book though rebellion was going on in the city streets, right?? 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

At this point, I really think that the writers really do not remember what was mentioned even just over 5 episodes ago. If I remember correctly, first daughter given birth by Chaunke survived the delivery though being big (it was mentioned by Daniang and RL during ML's first visit to Sheng family after getting married) but her second pregnancy ended up as miscarriage (mentioned later at girls' gathering at grandma before having family lunch). During her visit after grandma's poison accident, Molan mentioned to CB's wife that all her husband concubines pregnancy did not end up surviving and the one child survived two years ago did not live for long. But in today's episode, LH mentioned that the child being dead from having difficulty delivering.

 

The plot of recent episodes is getting ridiculous. At the end of prison meeting scene, eunuch Li announced the imperial edict that both GTY and ML lost their title and GTY would be exiled after autumn. But after this ML wore her noble lady outfit, beat the imerial drum and appealed for GTY case. Isn't it an act of open defiance of emperor's order? In that era this act alone could lead to the death of ML and her whole family. After GTY and ML lost their title, ML could still live in Cheng Yuan and held party like a noble lady is beyond me. Shouldn't Cheng Yuan be confiscated after GTY lost his title and got demoted? And as you pointed out, ML was no longer a minister's wife and a noble lady, it makes no sense for a eunuch to announce the edict. 

[minoku2209]

Countdown finale D-1

 

[minglan1]

How is the story of minglan faring among TV audiences? Are they also critical of historical discrepancies in costume,props,screenplay?Just curious since in some countries TV audiences aren't too mindful about these matters.

[sava2sava]

Thanks @Golden Flower  For the breakdown of the titles as well of the official sites..

 

Well with all the clips and everyone comments. I think I better wait til the episodes are sub.. All this is getting a Lil confusing to watch  

[Jackie1048]

So lovely to watch Ming Lan's band of sisters attending Ming Lan's baby's full moon party. Loved how Miss Zhang (General Shen's wife) almost kicked Molan out of the house. Miss Zhang sat next to Molan like a threat to Molan to behave. Molan cannot say anything to Miss Zhang as she is a daughter of a duke and married to a royal.

 

The last time someone attacked Ming Lan with a dagger ended up dead by Gu Ting Ye's sword. A soldier with a sword waving the weapon at Ming Lan would end up in a similar fate.

 

So funny that the Emperor cannot even sleep because Ming Lan hitting the drum throughout the day and into the night. Another act for the Dowager spy.

[leeza77]

Love the relationship between ml and rong. Wherever she go, she did bring rong with her. 

[sava2sava]

Off Topic

Spoiler

There's a new drama showing now called Queen Dugu.. Is there a thread for this drama or is it listed under another name

 

[Jackie1048]

At least Gu 3rd son has a backbone. His mother slapped him because he said he will put forward Gu Ting Ye's son as the next Marquis.

 

Gu Ting Ye should never leave home. For the salt inspection hecreturn home, his house is on fire. This time he return his house is under seige. Both times there is a direct attack on his wife.

 

I wondet whether Miniang will stab a wooden doll as well.

 

Who is that lady who came with all her gold and jewelleries to buy back her "contract" papers?

[matrim]

2 hours ago, Golden Flower said:

@martin @dito The writers kept the part about ML being part of family members of ministers who are against ED who were taken by ED people. However, currently, in drama, GTY is just a foot soldier, missing, assumed death and she is not even a noble lady. Also, why do they have ED soldiers as well as masked assassins from stepmom's side coming and attacking Chen garden. Also, I don't understand why there were no one guarding the entrance of Chen garden from stepmom's side though ML told them to guard well so that no one outside of her families and aides can go in and out when Xiang mama came to invite her. If I remember it correctly, fhere were only assassins in the book though rebellion was going on in the city streets, right?? 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

At this point, I really think that the writers really do not remember what was mentioned even just over 5 episodes ago. If I remember correctly, first daughter given birth by Chaunke survived the delivery though being big (it was mentioned by Daniang and RL during ML's first visit to Sheng family after getting married) but her second pregnancy ended up as miscarriage (mentioned later at girls' gathering at grandma before having family lunch). During her visit after grandma's poison accident, Molan mentioned to CB's wife that all her husband concubines pregnancy did not end up surviving and the one child survived two years ago did not live for long. But in today's episode, LH mentioned that the child being dead from having difficulty delivering.

 

In the novel the rebellion was mostly in the palace while in the streets, bandits attacked wealthy and noble families for money and properties. These attacks were not serious and long with the only exception of assault on Cheng Garden which was schemed by stepmom and led by GTW. In the drama ED sent soldiers to attack Cheng Garden. This was strategically pointless as ML was not a noble lady and a general's wife any more, and with the rumor of GTY's death she shouldn't be seen as a threat at all. There's not enough motive for ED to act like this. Instead of diverting resources, ED should focus her attention on controlling the emperor and the palace.

[leeza77]

Trailer..mn was really cruel 

Spoiler

http://p.weibo.com/show/channerWbH5/1034:4338838328561018

 

[hello210]

39 minutes ago, matrim said:

In the novel the rebellion was mostly in the palace while in the streets, bandits attacked wealthy and noble families for money and properties. These attacks were not serious and long with the only exception of assault on Cheng Garden which was schemed by stepmom and led by GTW. In the drama ED sent soldiers to attack Cheng Garden. This was strategically pointless as ML was not a noble lady and a general's wife any more, and with the rumor of GTY's death she shouldn't be seen as a threat at all. There's not enough motive for ED to act like this. Instead of diverting resources, ED should focus her attention on controlling the emperor and the palace.

I wonder if ED was attacking because she was suspecting something since the Emperor didn’t force ML and crew out of Cheng Garden? 

 

33 minutes ago, leeza77 said:

Trailer..mn was really cruel 

  Hide contents

http://p.weibo.com/show/channerWbH5/1034:4338838328561018

 

She’s cruel/crazy enough to attack Rong’er  and try to kill an innocent baby. Glad this trailer showed Momo get her with the club. 

 

Love that we get to see QH mature and finally start looking at his wife. They may have a more affectionate relationship than in the novel. Need to see the subbed version for better understanding but someone on YouTube said that the baby party was their idea for luring out whoever was trying to poison ML?? Don’t know if it’s right.

 

And docile Yanran actually bosses her husband around  

[mooose]

2 hours ago, matrim said:

The plot of recent episodes is getting ridiculous. At the end of prison meeting scene, eunuch Li announced the imperial edict that both GTY and ML lost their title and GTY would be exiled after autumn. But after this ML wore her noble lady outfit, beat the imerial drum and appealed for GTY case. Isn't it an act of open defiance of emperor's order? In that era this act alone could lead to the death of ML and her whole family. After GTY and ML lost their title, ML could still live in Cheng Yuan and held party like a noble lady is beyond me. Shouldn't Cheng Yuan be confiscated after GTY lost his title and got demoted? And as you pointed out, ML was no longer a minister's wife and a noble lady, it makes no sense for a eunuch to announce the edict

 

Devil's advocate here.

 

The most serious cases would be treason and public corruption, which would lead to confiscation of assets, beheadings, slavery for family etc. In this case GTY is a merritorious official and all his issues are grey family issues, he didn't have his hand in the imperial cookie jar or plot rebellion. As an absolute monarch, a judgement from the emperor would not always be the same from the courts. He can choose, at his dicretion to mitigate a sentence or judgement. So yes, even if the emperor was publicly pissed, he wouldn't be extreme as to want one of his close aides homeless and penniless, on account of past services rendered.

 

ML wearing her robes in a 'last ditch' appeal, I don't  think is that big of a deal. She needs to look powerful.

 

Even as commoners, GTY and ML are still both from grand families (The Shens' were not titled, only scholars, but still considered a grand family). So their lifestyle and close circle of friends won't change that much.

 

The imperial family could summon anyone before them, even common furens or merchants. ML can still be summoned, even without a title.

[Golden Flower]

3 hours ago, matrim said:

The plot of recent episodes is getting ridiculous. At the end of prison meeting scene, eunuch Li announced the imperial edict that both GTY and ML lost their title and GTY would be exiled after autumn. But after this ML wore her noble lady outfit, beat the imerial drum and appealed for GTY case. Isn't it an act of open defiance of emperor's order? In that era this act alone could lead to the death of ML and her whole family. After GTY and ML lost their title, ML could still live in Cheng Yuan and held party like a noble lady is beyond me. Shouldn't Cheng Yuan be confiscated after GTY lost his title and got demoted? And as you pointed out, ML was no longer a minister's wife and a noble lady, it makes no sense for a eunuch to announce the edict. 

That is what I have been saying in my yesterday's post after I saw the previews. You have been thinking he was just being demoted. I guess the writers can say that property confistication wasn't included in the decree or two compounds being combined and considered as Marquis fu but it doesn't make sense with the criminal law of that era. Did you notice the decree also convicted him of being greedy and seizing properties of civilians (meaning bai family's properties since he was being sued for illegally taking away by his uncle in throne room) but then the emperor didn't take away any of those properties? Huan Wang also didn't go to war though he requested.

 

ML's grandma already reminded her that it would be unacceptable for her to wear her noble lady attire since her title is gone with GTY's. She basically told grandma she no longer care anymore and she just wanted to do her best for GTY.  She also said she was there at Sheng house to say goodbye to old lady, basically she is prepared to be arrested or died. That's why next morning after ML left SH told grandma that Sheng house doesn't only have ML as a child, it is only Sheng house in the capital but also main house in Youyang over 100 lives at stakes and CB shouldn't be involved at all. SH was scared to death when he tried to pull ML away after over 24 hrs of drum beating. 

I have already pointed out property confiscations and all the wrong things of the last two episodes in my previous post, the one before your quoted one in pg 261. 

 

@dito It was also pearl necklaces given to Sheng girls by QH's mom in the novel. It was in pretty early chapters ~30s since ML was only around 11 at that time. 

 

I hate to say this but I'm so glad I'm no longer alone in being unhappy with drama writers

I was so alone when I started pointing out little details of their inconsistencies during third week.  

[matrim]

5 minutes ago, mooose said:

ML wearing her robes in a 'last ditch' appeal, I don't  think is that big of a deal. She needs to look powerful.

Before the imperial edict ML was a noble lady and had the right to wear that outfit, but after she lost her title she definitely shouldn't wear it. A commoner pretending to be a noble lady was not a small matter, especially as ML was using the status to appeal for her husband. Any official from ED's side could easily use it as an excuse to sue her and add more criminal charges against GTY. By doing this ML didn't help GTY, she's actually bringing more trouble to him. I know it looked impressive but honestly she should just wear normal clothes. 

[leeza77]

Rong finally call ml mother.. So, heart-warming 

Spoiler

http://p.weibo.com/show/channerWbH5/1034:4338647256755483

 

[Jackie1048]

1 hour ago, leeza77 said:

Trailer..mn was really cruel 

  Reveal hidden contents

http://p.weibo.com/show/channerWbH5/1034:4338838328561018

 

Ming Lan scolded Gu Ting Ye for lying to her. She assumed that he was dead. She told him if he did it again she will give him the divorce papers. She said that Gu Ting Ye always called her a fox but she called Gu Ting Ye that he is the Ancestor of foxes.

 

Gu Ting Ye saved Ming Lan with an arrow. The same style as when she was carrying the imperial edict after escaping from the palace

[leeza77]

2 minutes ago, Jackie1048 said:

Ming Lan scolded Gu Ting Ye for lying to her. She assumed that he was dead. She told him if he did it again she will give him the divorce papers. She said that Gu Ting Ye always called her a fox but she called Gu Ting Ye that he is the Ancestor of foxes.

 

Gu Tong Ye saved Ming Lan with an arrow. The same style as when she was carrying the imperial edict after escaping from the palace

So, a pot calling a kettle.. Ha ha. Really suited each other. Ml should teach him a lesson

[mooose]

29 minutes ago, matrim said:

Before the imperial edict ML was a noble lady and had the right to wear that outfit, but after she lost her title she definitely shouldn't wear it. A commoner pretending to be a noble lady was not a small matter, especially as ML was using the status to appeal for her husband. Any official from ED's side could easily use it as an excuse to sue her and add more criminal charges against GTY. By doing this ML didn't help GTY, she's actually bringing more trouble to him. I know it looked impressive but honestly she should just wear normal clothes. 

 

Here's my interpretation:

By the time of banging the gong, ML had calmed down and thought things through and calculated her actions. She's very intuitive about people and human response. The robes signify that she, a virtuous wife, was giving it her all for her husband. How then can anyone of those courtiers or scholars want to penalize her for mere robes?

 

Even the emperor, who couldn't sleep, could have had her removed quietly but didn't dare to because it would look bad. He could only ignore her. So being a woman was powerful, but of the empty kind, which is why she threw the headpiece away. Thats why I say the robes at this point were not a big deal.