[Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] The Story of Ming Lan 庶女明兰传 / 知否？知否？应是绿肥红瘦

[dito]

10 minutes ago, linhlinh111 said:

 

Yeah I think they put all their resources this year into "Like a flowing river", they didn't even have their A-team in this project. All the pre-producion like settings and clothes look cheap too. Daylight had many great dramas a few years ago, like NiF, the disguiser, Ode to joy but recently it's quality is going down. It's still good but not as outstanding as before, except for maybe Like a flowing river, but that series isn't popular to foreign viewers.

 

I wonder why Chinese drama producers don't consult the original authors on the screenplays. I see normally dramas which have the original authors as screenwriters and stay true to the original book are more likely to be successful. They bought popular books to adapt bc those books already have massive fanbases and they want to attract their readers, but then they decide to mess things up? What a waste!

 

Exactly. They are paying the authors for the copyrights as it is why not consultation too. It will only benefit them and help them make a better drama. Writing fails when screen writers don't understand the characters of the source material....what better than getting the author on the team.

I think bad writing is the major reason I have dropped most of the recent adapted works. Last drama Cdrama I finished was Lost Love in Times and they changed almost all of the story by adding the magic. AOL was horrible after the added side plots........ROP changed about 80% of the story from the book....I mean why even bother buying the copyrights then.

 

9 minutes ago, fra8 said:

I really like this drama. The otp has great chemistry, the secondary characters are interesting, the production is not bad. The only thing I am not sure about is that they overdid the characters plotting against the main couple. It seems too much.

but I am waiting to see the resolution to see if it makes sense. 

the book wasn’t my cup of tea, so I don’t mind the changes even if I see some plot holes or contrived scenes. However I watch dramas just to relax and to improve my Chinese. .

 

Actually I do not mind little changes here and there if it doesn't affect the overall story. And I can overlook little flaws and plot holes...but not a huge one.

I became a bit wary when they started changing the characters....which then started to affect the storyline.

I'll wait to see how they resolve it and then watch the rest of the episodes.

[linhlinh111]

16 minutes ago, dito said:

 

Exactly. They are paying the authors for the copyrights as it is why not consultation too. It will only benefit them and help them make a better drama. Writing fails when screen writers don't understand the characters of the source material....what better than getting the author on the team.

I think bad writing is the major reason I have dropped most of the recent adapted works. Last drama Cdrama I finished was Lost Love in Times and they changed almost all of the story by adding the magic. AOL was horrible after the added side plots........ROP changed about 80% of the story from the book....I mean why even bother buying the copyrights then.

 

 

Yeah I really don't know what's going on in the Chinese TV industry. They're wasting so many great source materials. In the past few years I have seen many of my favourite books get turned into crappy dramas it's driving me nuts.

[m0us3y]

@dito mind sharing what exactly was said between ML - GTY during the 2 main arguments in the novel? 

Am actually quite curious, for in the drama they changed the plot whereby they know each other since young while in the novel he didn't actually know her until much later? 

So is it safe to assume he didn't know about her past in the novel? 

[Suzzy San]

Omg, our chanbai bro just gave ML a big anxious matter, he told her about Wei Madam at the brothel, not knowing that Wei Madam was the one with GTY at the 1st polo match then.. This is so funny, GTY was like why would you make her angry with that when he doesn't have anything with WEI Madam and chanbai said, don't you want her to be anxious about you, you will see how she will be going around asking about Wei Madam.. Hahahahhaha a and truly she has started asking around.... Feng Xian wasn't a threat so ML didn't really care at all but she doesn't know Wei that well and now that she has opened her heart to accept him, she is getting so curious about Wei, I really think if she knows Wei, they can be partner in crime,.. .. Chanbai thank you for this great job well done to make ML anxious.. 

PS; I think I said it before the maid Molan sent was in Ml's house but it's actually Sheng's house.. So they kept the Kang aunt in Sheng house and she went to gu step mom after, and that's why Tu second could not find her.. 

[jewelsc]

Can someone spoil me by telling if Molan had this much storyline in the novel, with her help at instigating all of aunty kang's actions which resulted to GTY's downfall and ML's distress..how was she being punished? If this storyline did not exist in the novel and i'd read someone wrote here that CL wasn't supposed to die so soon according to the novel and that she'd been sent to a farmstead for punishment (i think or was that somebody else ) maybe they have changed that part of the story and had Molan punished that way instead?... Seems like they sent all the ladies or servants to a farmstead as punishments in the novel.  I just want to see Molan and that CL's servant get a jail sentence and not just a mere farmstead punishment.

 

[Golden Flower]

@dito I’m in same boat as you. I’m watching this drama because it was daylight entertainment production and thought TSoML writers were the same from BOC but I just checked wiki now and they weren’t. I thought BOC writing was better and logical with no much plot holes compared to current TSoML as it kept me interested to continue watching next episode though genre (family drama set during Japanese war) was not my cup of tea. I wasn’t interested in BOC in the beginning even with Wallace Huo and reading synopsis and watching interviews. I ended up watching it accidentally on YouTube after it was aired and I was hooked. LMIYD writer was Hai Yan who is original novelist and writer of NIF1/2 but Dingmo was novelist for LMIYD. 

@linhlinh111 I agree with your theory of involving original novel writer but there are dramas like Bu Bu Jing Xin and sound of desert turn out great with original storyline intact though original novelist wasn’t involved in production. I think making  drama too long by adding a lot of additional plots as well as including almost every side characters is another major issue making some dramas draggy and unappealing. You mentioned you were worried about main leads as none of the main leads weren’t recognized for their acting, are you including ZYL? I thought his acting was great and recognized in Love Three Lives (though it wasn't extremely popular drama) and Legend of Mie Yue. I haven't watched and didn't plan to watch Guardian but have watched a couple of his older second lead dramas where I thought he has acting talent. I didn't know him at all when I watched LTL accidentally but ended up watching till end because of his character and acting. It is suprising for me as I avoid Republican and warload era genres. 

 

Also, back to our conversation two weeks ago about GTW. Since he left or planning to leave Hou Fu and was falling out with his mom, I'm thinking they might not turn him into vallain by making him involve in attack to Chen Yuan during second rebellion? 

[dito]

2 hours ago, m0us3y said:

@dito mind sharing what exactly was said between ML - GTY during the 2 main arguments in the novel? 

Am actually quite curious, for in the drama they changed the plot whereby they know each other since young while in the novel he didn't actually know her until much later? 

So is it safe to assume he didn't know about her past in the novel? 

 

He knew about QH and what he investigated about her family but not the details of her childhood and stuff.

Spoiler

 

The first conversation had most of what she said to QH in the temple about how the world is different for men and women. How women pay the price for love men walk free. She said look at you....you went around doing ridiculous things for 10 years and when you came back you were welcomed as prodigal son. If I take a single wrong step my life is ruined. Then she told him about her childhood. After her mom died, if granny had not cared for her she wouldn't be here today. Her childhood was spent being worried and afraid for her tomorrow. She is a shu daughter.....so for her love and things like that.... she does not have luxury to afford those things. 

Then she talks about general shen's first wife who died saving the empress....says you say they both loved each other very much. But look at them now...woman is dead the husband is married to another, has a child on the way. Is that love? She paid the price for his family to stay alive. Would you want me to do something like that for you? GTY gets angry and says of course not. She says loving someone is not dying for them but doing everything in your power to stay alive for them.

 

He then asks about QH, that did she ever love him. And she tells him she never had any thoughts of him. He is too high for her. And she's not someone who pines for someone out of reach and only to end up crying broke hearted when he marries someone else. GTY tells her he heard QH fought his mother a lot for you. ML gets angry and says so what? Just because he likes me, I have to like him too. Then something about if QH had the ability to do more then he'd have got her(not sure about this) she was being very cruel talking about QH. GTY says if he could hear what you think about him....ML tells him she said even worse things than this to QH's face. Then he asks why do you look guilty when I talk about him. ML says because he was sincere and I was selfish. He really liked me and never looked down on me, was never embarrassed to be with me but all I ever thought about was myself.

 

So if you want me to like you....then I can't help you. Because I'm already a person without a heart and soul.

She was crying heavily by the end and GTY wanted to comfort her but went back to his study and thought a lot. Then later that night he came back and saw her sleeping with their son, her face still wet with tears. Seeing her like that he just gave up and moved back in. Told the servants to move his stuff back in the morning.

 

This is of course, not 100% accurate....only what i could understand from Google translate.

 

The second conversation happened after he came back to handle granny's poisoning. 

By then the Gu manor was separated....Gu uncles and aunts were all living separately and struggling. GTY had already take his revenge on them. The cousin were in exile. ML only found out afterwards that this was GTYs revenge. 

GTY was asking ML about what she had done and his shock at that. ML started telling everything and crying that all of this happened because of her. Granny was worried ML life would become difficult because of the  Kang Aunt interference. Because of this fear Granny was especially harsh on Daniang which then angered Daniang to make her go this route. ML was angry at granny for always worrying about her and not even relaxing in her old age. She then told him she could have done even worse things for granny. Then she said when manniang attacked me you stayed calm and disposed of her in a very proper manner so as to avoid gossip.

But when you really have a person in your heart, and they are in danger you will feel panic and loose your senses...like me with grandmother. Tell me when you first heard Manniang attacked me....how did feel....did you panic? Did you feel your mind in chaos? even after knowing I was unharmed did you feel furious enough to go avenge me immediately?  

GTY stayed silent. ML continued ..I feel that true love is not how many smart things you do for the other but how many stupid things you do for them. We will grow old and love each other for the rest of our lives so I must be a good wife and a good mother....just like this.

GTY then remembered something that ML said a long time ago.......too many emotions you can easily get hurt.....living a life of calm contentment is the best.

 

I paraphrased a lot....and somethings that i couldn't understand...I guessed.....so again not 100% accurate.

[linhlinh111]

@m0us3y In the drama there are more interactions between ML and GTY, but in the book he also observed her for a long time before choosing her as his bride and the schemes to get her are similar. The main element of the arguments remain unchanged but in the book it was executed with intensity and it marked a milestone in their relationship. @dito has stated quite clearly I just wanted to add some details.

 

The first argument happened in a similar situation as in the drama, except there were just 2 of them sitting in a closed room. ML pointed out for him while he, as a noble and a man, had little at stake why she, as a lowborn woman, would lose everything once she fell out of his favor and without reputations. It's the same as a conversation she had before about her and QH in the drama, which states that a small amount of value to QH may mean everything to her. This can also apply with GTY. She then cried silently, saying she was indeed selfish, bc she could never put everything on the line for a man's love. GTY then understood how hard it is on her and moved back to sleep with her, never spoke about that again.

 

The second argument happened in a different situation since they changed the sequence of event in the drama. In the book the delivery of her first child took place first, then the poison of Grandma. When GTY was away and ML was near labor, Stepmom plot plans against her, first by having Aunti Kang sending a concubine, which failed. After that she seeked out Manniang (the son was still alive). One thing after another and MN tried to assassinate ML but failed then the fire. GTY, after a while of consideration, decided to exile MN and warned Stepmom by killing the son of her right-hand-woman, which ML agreed to. Later when Daniang's maid was spying on the house (same as drama), Grandma got furious and scolded Daniang, which then lead to the poison case. Later when GTY arrived at the scene (this is similar to drama), he was so surprised seeing ML, who was usually so calm and reserved, lost it in rage. She did so many things that she shouldn't have done, like locking the house down, torturing the maids and threatening her father. She could have thought of a safer method to handle the matter. She then told GTY, Grandma needn't have to stressed things out with Daniang. The maid was actually a really small problem and it could be handled without causing a ruckfuss with Daniang. But bc Grandma cared about her too much that she didn't think it straight. Grandma was a wise lady and she should have known the best way to handle the problem, but when ML was being targeted all of her wisdom went down the drain and she would rush at anyone who tried to harm her. ML said when people cared too much they made mistake. GTY, on the other hand, was very clever and careful in dealing with the incident with ML. All of his aftermath solutions were calculated carefully to take out their enemies in the future. ML admitted that what he did would benefit them most. But if he truly cared for her than he wouldn't think it that clearly. ML asked him why he didn't burst out in rage, if he were to risk everything just to avenge her even knowing she was safe in the end. The proof of love wasn't how many right things he did for her, but how many stupid mistakes he would be willing to commit for her. GTY stayed silent and could not reply. In the end ML said let's just continue like this, she would be a proper wife and mother. GTY then watch her fall asleep without saying a word.

 

The beauty of these arguments is that it struck really hard into GTY's heart (and also the readers'). It pushed GTY into a realization of how wrong he was in viewing their relationship, how demanding he was of her and how his smart and cunning methods that he was proud of was backfiring at him. He realized that while he was criticizing her of holding back her emotions, he was also wearing a thick armor to protect himself and that there were no shortcuts nor bargaining in love.

 

@Golden Flower QH was just a side character in the book so I didn't expect him to have that much screen time, although ZYL's potrayal was marvelous. It was the character of ML I was worried about. In the book even GTY doesn't appear much and ML is the main focus throughout the story. She was smart, rational and very insightful. She is a special woman, some of her words are intense and heavy and they carry her mature thoughts on love and life. I thought ZLY's acting was not enough to play such a character. Well they changed the plot a bit and turn ML livelier, more suitable for ZLY. I understand a 15-ish soul is incomparable to a 36-ish soul, but it's rather sad since the character lost part of its depth and impact.

[dito]

Thanks @linhlinh111 for providing more accurate version of the scenes. My version is barely deciphered from Google's giberish

@m0us3y.....@linhlinh111 has posted the accurate version. Read that.

[Suzzy San]

Somehow the book's GTY has become the ML in the drama, a little bit, and the ML in the drama is like GTY in the book.. So funny and interesting 

Thank you for translating the two climax between them in the novel.. I wish they have recreated some of the dialouges in the drama.. But I'm still OK with the one they gave us.. 

[dito]

1 hour ago, Golden Flower said:

@dito I’m in same boat as you. I’m watching this drama because it was daylight entertainment production and thought TSoML writers were the same from BOC but I just checked wiki now and they weren’t. I thought BOC writing was better and logical with no much plot holes compared to current TSoML as it kept me interested to continue watching next episode though genre (family drama set during Japanese war) was not my cup of tea. I wasn’t interested in BOC in the beginning even with Wallace Huo and reading synopsis and watching interviews. I ended up watching it accidentally on YouTube after it was aired and I was hooked. LMIYD writer was Hai Yan who is original novelist and writer of NIF1/2 but Dingmo was novelist for LMIYD. 

@linhlinh111 I agree with your theory of involving original novel writer but there are dramas like Bu Bu Jing Xin and sound of desert turn out great with original storyline intact though original novelist wasn’t involved in production. I think making  drama too long by adding a lot of additional plots as well as including almost every side characters is another major issue making some dramas draggy and unappealing. You mentioned you were worried about main leads as none of the main leads weren’t recognized for their acting, are you including ZYL? I thought his acting was great and recognized in Love Three Lives (though it wasn't extremely popular drama) and Legend of Mie Yue. I haven't watched and didn't plan to watch Guardian but have watched a couple of his older second lead dramas where I thought he has acting talent. I didn't know him at all when I watched LTL accidentally but ended up watching till end because of his character and acting. It is suprising for me as I avoid Republican and warload era genres. 

 

Also, back to our conversation two weeks ago about GTW. Since he left or planning to leave Hou Fu and was falling out with his mom, I'm thinking they might not turn him into vallain by making him involve in attack to Chen Yuan during second rebellion? 

 

Both were 36 epis. So no unnecessary dragging. Which helped keep the narrative tight . I agree BOC was still better narratively...even with some flaws. And why would Haiyan write screenplay for Dingmo's books. Can't they hire Dingmo to write. No wonder the characters felt different from the book.  

And even I went and checked the writers on wiki

[jwhite]

Would someone please message me the site with the latest episodes from the us...Ty!

[Suzzy San]

1 minute ago, jwhite said:

Would someone please message me the site with the latest episodes from the us...Ty!

Kissdrama.club

I really have said this before but I want to say it again, really thank you to QH for helping with the fire.. I really respect him and admire him more than ever.. That was a wonderful deed that wasn't done with any hidden motive but a sincere motive of saving people.. Qh's character has really became a wonderful, clear headed, understanding and matured one over time.. I love that 

[dancingbee]

On 2/7/2019 at 9:22 PM, Suzzy San said:

I'm so happy that I'm crying really.. So glad she gave birth safely, so thankful to QH for helping with the fire, so happy that GTY came back on time, so grateful to all those that helped her fight of the Kang auntie and helped her in giving birth, so thankful to their son for staying strong.. In all, I'm so happy for them 

Yes, there are so many thankful events happening to Ming Lan although her life has always been in the war zones with one crisis after another. She has all these blessings and many helps from people around her such as QH, whose heart was broken, yet still comes to her rescue; people who she sincerely helps and protects such as Madame Zhang; all her maids; and everyone else who is around her or somehow connected to her; and of course, her grandma and her dear husband. 

"Live your life in such a way that if someone spoke badly of you, no one would believe it. "  And may I add,
" Instead, they would come to be on your side."

[Suzzy San]

Omg omg .. I really applaud GTY in terms of no strings attached cruelty.. Like he got to the house and has already told shitou to set fire to stepmom son's house.. I love that.. Fire for fire.. And I agree with the wife of her son, she really doesn't care about the son's needs.. It has always been about what she wants the son to be. 

[Suzzy San]

I really want to believe that the emperor is playing dumb because if he is not, he is really a muddled emperor.. Even to the point of accusing the empress of wishing him illness so that prince Huan can be on the throne with the help of GTY.. That's such a delusional thoughts that shouldn't come to the mind of a wise king.. Please I hope the writers are just making him play dumb 

[minglan1]

36 minutes ago, Suzzy San said:

I really want to believe that the emperor is playing dumb because if he is not, he is really a muddled emperor.. Even to the point of accusing the empress of wishing him illness so that prince Huan can be on the throne with the help of GTY.. That's such a delusional thoughts that shouldn't come to the mind of a wise king.. Please I hope the writers are just making him play dumb .

I hope so too..The emperor has been giving mixed signals so I hope he is doing it on purpose.If they turn him dumb I will be very dissapointed.The camera kept panning to the enunch when emperor was giving an earful to the empress.Looked like he was trying to remember and memorize everything to report to ED.

[leeza77]

1 hour ago, minglan1 said:

I hope so too..The emperor has been giving mixed signals so I hope he is doing it on purpose.If they turn him dumb I will be very dissapointed.The camera kept panning to the enunch when emperor was giving an earful to the empress.Looked like he was trying to remember and memorize everything to report to ED.

There is a scene fr mv when the soldiers try to forcefully entered gu's manor and ml with her guards try to prevent it. Later, gty come back wearing his general armour. I deduce that gty was sent away just as a smoke/play to entice ED long awaiting rebellion (as no strong force stood behind emperor with the absence of gty). Gty came back when the rebellion started and quelled it. So, ED's power and her supporters were quashed in one go. Just my speculation 

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[minglan1]

26 minutes ago, leeza77 said:

There is a scene fr mv when the soldiers try to forcefully entered gu's manor and ml with her guards try to prevent it. Later, gty come back wearing his general armour. I deduce that gty was sent away just as a smoke/play to entice ED long awaiting rebellion (as no strong force stood behind emperor with the absence of gty). Gty came back when the rebellion started and quelled it. So, ED's power and her supporters were quashed in one go. Just my speculation 

 

 

I hope this is the case.I haven't  been dissapointed in the smart thinking of GTY and ML.To see them haplessly caught in a flimsy web of deceit feels uncharacteristic.Someone had posted a Weibo post of the actor playing emperor stating he isn't dumb.I am trying to remain positive that the ending episodes will be good like the previous ones.

[minoku2209]

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