[Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] The Story of Ming Lan 庶女明兰传 / 知否？知否？应是绿肥红瘦

[nichiwoohee]

2 hours ago, Golden Flower said:

I'm sorry to say this but you're comparing apple and orange and also thinking highly of SH. SH is only 5th grade level scholar official with no power in court (he only got promoted to 4th grade this episode). He also doesn't come from noble family though grandma (who is also not his biological mom) was only daughter of Marquis of Yongyi, she already severed her ties with her maiden family. His late father was also not former influential official like Wang's dead father who was honored in imperial ancestral temple (though grandpa Sheng gained 3rd place in imperial court exam and true scholar). Hualan's in-laws are hereditary noble Count family though they were not in favor with current emperor. Their position is much higher than Sheng family. Plus, Hualan did not face near death during her delivery or pregnancy. Her mistreatment was related to financial means by her mom-in-law not from Count himself and this can be passed by saying HL herself contributed to family expenses being filial. Her son being taken away by her mom-in-law is also NOT a crime. Grandmother can raise her own grandson (in some cases it is being considered favorable for the child in case of ML since grandma came from noble family) and favorable especially since HL's husband is second son who has no right to inherit the title (so neither HL's son). Also, her mom-in-law could say that she has doubts about HL's ability and integrity to raise her grandson after Molan's scandal. The children being burned by fire burner can be considered accident and negligence of the servants not cuz of her mom-in-law.  

Zhang family has Ying Guo Gong (duke) title, 1st grade official and Guo Gong himself is accomplished general and established minister for three emperors (unlike QH's father who wasn't accomplished and doesn't have real official position though he also is a hereditary Guo Gong). Like I mentioned in earlier post, emperor decreed this marriage so that he, empress family and Huan wang can get support from older ministers with established power in the capital and their marriage is considered state's affair. Please remember emperor and empress family and relatives came from You Zhou and have no established power or big army in the capital. So, only daughter of this family had difficult early birth due to concubine Zhou bumping into her (though supposedly accident), almost died not getting immediate treatment by imperial doctor (whom Zhang family invited to help with the delivery) as well as General Shen himself not treating his new main wife and CZ right (he is not supposed to let CZ disrespect the main wife, attending parties though concubines aren't supposed to) became not only a big political issue but also a crime committed by Shen family. It was never new main wife's fault as she has been avoiding the conflicts with CZ, even dismissed her not to pay respect to her, stayed mainly in her own courtyard and avoided a lot of parties that CZ was attending.  Thus, Yin Guo Gong couples have every right to request to either send away CZ or dissolve the marriage amicably. Since YGG has always been righteous, it was life/death situation and not their daughter's fault, they even dare to plan to send her to the temple if she no longer wants to stay in this marriage (meaning if she gets sick of unprotected and unloving husband). I guess she decided to go back to general manor after CZ and her family was punished as she starts having feelings towards her husband as well as she knows her husband already developed feelings for her as well and her marriage will be fine as long as CZ behaves and not favored.  

Other posters like @linhlinh111 and @martin already pointed out the importance of scholar officials needing to have clean reputations in the court for them being able to survive in their officialship. The officials can be found fault not only in your job performance but also for also your societal role and reputation related to filial piety, dealing with relatives/ in-laws, disciplining your children and servants, and family reputation as a whole being head of household. The minimal punishment will be losing your salary for a time period, not being promoted or being demoted. You also have to remember that during that era, losing your job is not just losing it, your properties will be confasticated and you and even your family will be exiled as the most lenient punishment for that kind of crime (sometimes being jailed or killed). 

 

This is very similar situation with SH's reaction to Molan's husband request of his presence at CL's spiritual tablet erecting ceremony supposed to be held by Molan. I saw a lot of comments bashing SH and saying he still favored children of CL over ML because of his love for CL. If you watch carefully and pay attention to the conversation, SH ignored Molan. He did not say anything or have any reaction when Daniang told Molan to close her mouth and stopped talking about CL. However, Molan was very crafty and made request in front of her husband instead of in private with her father. Then, her husband who did not know the whole CL's situation, started persuading SH on behalf of his wife since CL being his real mom-in-law. Please remember Molan's husband Liang Han did not know about CL helping arrange Molan meet Liang Han and spread the news of their involvement and LH carrying Molan at the temple. In addition, SH has to give some face to this son-in-law who came from noble County family since his family status is higher than Sheng. (You can see SH gave GTY's face too by listening to him as GTY is a third grade official as well as Marquis when he stepped in.)  If he kept his silence or kept refusing the request, he needs to give a solid reason to LH, meaning he has to reveal why CL's was buried in farmstead and why her spiritual tablet is not at the temple. Then, Liang family will not only look down on Molan but the news will spread and the whole Sheng family's reputation will be ruined. He also need to deny about ML's mom death in front of LH even if he found out the truth from ML (I doubt he knew the truth till ML brought up about witness and doctor's testimony) to save his family's reputation. If his family's name is ruined, not only his official position, but also CB's officialdom, CF's career and the lives of all his 4 daughters at their in-laws' homes will be at risk. By having one CL killed another CL and him not knowing, he can lose his officialdom or at least be punished and all his kids are at risk, especially CF and Molan. Thus, accusing him of not loving ML and only favoring CL's children is too extreme. If you look at beginning episodes, there are a few scenes where SH's eyes expressions show his love for ML. Although it was not shown but briefly mentioned that he took ML to Daniang's courtyard and asked her to be raised together with HL and RL. It is just that drama doesn't really have much time to show his fatherly side towards ML and they dramatized and spent a lot more time about his relationship with CL. Also, you need to remember all people in Sheng family has been fed and clothed by SH's salary and income from his properties. Although ML was raised by grandma, the money they spent and their pocket money all come from common which is SH's money. The grandma, Daniang and CL have their own personal separate income which they saved and used for their children future and dowry. SH didn't help CL cover up with ML's mom death. It was CL who was clever enough to make it hard to find fault blaming everything on servants and those servants such as Momo who could deliver mainly come from Wang family with Daniang. Unfortunately, grandma, SH and Daniang were all out of town and CL was able to manipulate everything to be rid of most of the faults off her shoulder.  She made it so that her main fault was not being able to control the servants and ask them to work diligently but she also claimed that the servants didn't listen to her. So, SH took away her authority to manage the house and neglected her for a while. Yes, it was his fault in favoring CL more than he should.  However, we have to remember SH's weakness of his childhood trauma of his mother and him being treated badly by his father's other wives and ignored by grandma who was main wife. In addition, CL made him feel that he owed it to her (her children as well via her) for becoming his mere concubine (not even highly honored concubine, there are different levels of concubine in chinese) though she is a talented di daughter from good official family (Both CL's parents are from good scholar official families and her father was also a mid level official. If her father didn't die early and her mother couldn't manage the family properties well, she wouldn't end up being poor and sent to grandma). Some of you might argue that he could have investigated more thoroughly like ML finding the doctor who took her mom pulse once but he didn't even know that doctor existed or what that doctor told CL since CL got rid of everyone who can be on CW's side including Shao Tie. ML's mom death not getting justice at that time was not only SH's fault but also partly grandma's. Being the oldest and main mother of the family, SH requested her involvement and manage the house but he ignored his request and only took ML in, told him to sell the servants at the capital and told him to treat the main wife right. That's why grandma apologized to ML for not taking her sufferings into consideration when ML took the matter into her own hands and got the testimony from the doctor. 

I have restrained commenting on some of the characters like Sheng Hong, Daniang, QH, stepmom, Aunty Kang, QH's wife since most of the posters here are not seeing them from their perspectives but considered them plain evil since they disrespect ML, harm ML and give her and GTY troubles and I did not want to type more arguments. I hope this long post won't cause displeasures for a lot of you. I just think that we should watch the drama like this for story, all characters' development, and presentation not just for OTP's moments. The reason that I have interest in this drama is because all the characters are grey (not all black or all white, villains characters' motives can also be reasoned and understood) though the writers still make OTP characters a lot more favorable, more flushed out compared to other characters and ML involved in every single problem/issue even before she got married. I think the reasons these characters being hated by viewers especially international viewers are (1) their background story and their characters are not being flushed out well/ not enough time to show though mentioned briefly here and there (it is hard for viewers to understand, absorb and remember everything from subtitles) (2) trying to force or include some of the new/ unimportant plots so that they can involve ML or give more OTP time (3) trying to dramatize some scenes though they don't follow the logic of previous scenes. (I have given examples of some scenes two weeks ago but I'm not going to do that here as too long to explain some nuances in writing and not as effective as explaining verbally.)

 

Well I didnt say sh should barge into  hualan’s house and drag her back home.  But he didnt even bat an eyelash, a bit surprised but then let it go, danniang even wanted to go there and make ruckus but was stopped by hualan. That’s what you are supposed to do when you love a person, much like what minglan is doing. Going against her father, the elderls, risked being called unfilial and arrogant but would still go through it to get justice. 

 

There are roundabout ways to give justice to hualan, as you mentioned it was her mother in law being vicious, sh could have put pressure to her husband by playing the father in law role, or subtly talk about it with hualan’s father in law, but he wont because all he cares about is his face and career, that’s why I and perhaps others dont like him.

 

 Your reason of liking the drama is valid, just like the reason I started following the drama is because I like book minglan the time traveller who cleverly navigate the ancient era, the fact that the male lead is not the usual perfect male lead and one of my fav actress zly who played the lead role, so as you can see I’m more attached to the characters or otp as you called it. 

 

I really dont mind people give various opinions, some people can like the story, the settings, the characters or even the actors. As I remember this thread was started by zly’s fans who dont even know the story yet, so attachment to otp is normal. Let’s just enjoy the drama and not police others how they want to enjoy the drama

[bulubulu]

10 minutes ago, leeza77 said:

How do you watch ep 60 at viki.. My apps ep 60 is yet to be broadcasted. 

They just uploaded it. Try checking again.

[minglan1]

@GoldenFlower ML's mom read a book about military  strategies to her.Purely going by the drama I felt she had an educated background.I am not sure if they were referring to the SunTzu's book or the book of Qi the subtitles weren't  clear on that.

[leeza77]

12 minutes ago, bulubulu said:

They just uploaded it. Try checking again.

Saw it without subs.. 61th did catch up with half of 66th tv version... Hunan tv editing is really erratic. Tonight only 1 episode. Tomorrow none. For one episode broadcast hunan just aired it for 15 minutes.. No wonder webcast can catchup. In taiwan line tv has to stop the broadcasting for a while as it has broadcast ahead of hunan

[sava2sava]

6 hours ago, nichiwoohee said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

In the novel the stepmom did bring mn back, this is around the same time of ml’s first baby delivery. But the drama made the stepmom brought back mn before ml was pregnant, so idk what will happen next

 

one of the reason ml doubted gty’s feeling is because she was disappointed that gty only exiled mn when she almost killed her. So I thought maybe the drama took that plot and give it to the shen

 

Thanks @nichiwoohee  

 

6 hours ago, m0us3y said:

The granny poisoning incident is harder to take than I imagined. 

I loved ML and I loved granny and so I was prepared for this to be heartbreaking, but it's still worse than I thought...and this is only preview...

Show really set it up for us to be so invested in their relationship...

When ML sobbed inside granny's room, my heart broke with hers. And the first thing that came to mind was "GTY come back already! ML needs you, even if it's just a shoulder for her to cry on.."

Thankfully, in the next preview, GTY turned up! 

Good to see that he's there for her when she needed him most, just the same way she was always there for him when his going gets tough...

@m0us3y  It's kind of hard to believe he can't feel his wifes love for him..  How hard is it to distinguish between Manning and Ming Lang.. He took Manning words a face value believing her every words and yet Ming Lan displays hers..  Upon hearing about Granny and knowing what kind of shady character SH is of course he'll rush back to his wife side.. By now he has to be missing her some kind of terrible not being able to be there to pamper her during her first pregnancy going on those midnght food runs for her allow her to sleep til 3 in the afternoon..  It's good to no that they both there for one another even if she hasn't told him she loves him..

 

@nichiwoohee  & @GoldenFlower  

Spoiler

6 hours ago, Golden Flower said:

6 hours ago, nichiwoohee said:

Spoiler

one of the reason ml doubted gty’s feeling is because she was disappointed that gty only exiled mn when she almost killed her. So I thought maybe the drama took that plot and give it to the shen

 

@sava2sava From the trailer, though it is very hard to identify the woman who was trying to stab ML and/or her newborn, it doesn't seem to be MN. I don't think MN is going to reappear again since her son is already dead.

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In the novel, MN tried to kill ML manipulated by stepmom since her son is not dead yet. I believe it is Aunty Kang who was trying to stab ML and her new born. In upcoming episode, I'm guessing she will be divorced from her husband and sent to farmstead instead of being imprisoned like in the novel. (I'm just deducing from the conversations from previews as grandma regained conscious and was stressing about influence of dead wang's father and needing to continue to be their in-laws. So, I think Aunty Kang won't be killed or imprisoned.) So, she will come back with the help of stepmom during ML's delivery. Since she tries to kill the son and noble wife of Marquis GTY who is third grade official in front of many servants, I think the crime will be more serious than poisoning the grandma through the hands of daniang. In addition, after fire broke out, everyone will know about the whole ordeal and GTY is not really in-laws with Kangs or Wangs. So, the case could be formally brought into court to get justice. Unlike GTY, SH's need to care about implicating his wife who actually sent the fruit desserts, wang being in-laws, only Sheng, Wang and Kang families know about the case and Sheng's family reputation plus he is just an scholar official who is not close associate of neither ED nor emperor. 

 I can kind of understand why GTY didn't kill Manning.. How would that look to his daughter also this will also stigmatize the child during that time period.. Knowing full well how society would have lavle her regardless to the circumstances.. As wise as Ming Lan is how could she not see it from this point of view..

 

From reading other comments in this thread I also thought Aunt Kang came back to get revenge against ML and personally wanted to kill her herself.. This sounds like more of Auntie Kang character because she has to show ML you will never be above me I can kill you at anytime and no one would know thing about it or do anything about it.. 

 

5 hours ago, m0us3y said:

The slap SH gave ML, although hateful and unjustified, did drive home a point.

That ML will no longer bow down to the 'master of the household'. 

And SH realised that too. When she was willing to have the family disown her in exchange for justice for granny, and SH wanted to slap her again, she took a step forward rather than a step back...shows how determined and resolute she was to get to the bottom of the matter and seek justice. 

 

If my understanding is correct, SH seems to try avoiding the matter by going off to work, only to have ML told him that she has taken time off for him on behalf. 

Forced him to face the issue...

 

If only he could see beyond saving the family's face and understand how fiercely loyal and loving ML is towards the granny...he would be able to see how well she was raised even without him playing his role as a father. 

He should be proud that she's such a filial person...

@m0us3y  At this point of the game I think SH dispised ML just because she was smarter then the three girls not so much of a thought for Ronger but more so she achieved more success them Molan whom he thought the sun set and raise in.. SH always viewed Molan as his accomplishment only to have her and CL to disappoint him..  He has raised his hands to hit ML twice and succeeded once. Now regardless to whatever Molan did he never went that far even as she went on a b-ooty call in the temple and her on Mom spread the news to make him loose face and yet he overlook all things concerning her unless it's something she really wants for example having a small memorial set up for her.. 

Which brings me to the conclusion after learning about CL evilness of killing someone and not being able to bury her properly nor listing her in the Sheng Family Linenge he could be holding some kind of grudge against her for this.. I just don't think the man ever like Ml or her mom.. He has never cared for her if he did he wouldn't be so quick to raise his hands to hit her even while she's pregnant.. I think the Emperor should have heard of how such a scholar behaves all because he's scared to loose face and have fingers pointing at him.. SH always quick to throw ML status up in her face because her husband ranks higher then him in court and out.. Even Molan husband ranks higher then him and yet he don't put up airs to her.. I tell you if it wasn't for Granny Ming Lan would probably be married off to the poorest farmer in town.. All for the grater good of him saving face and she's married into a peaceful family.. I bet he wouldn't have married her to some outstanding scholar but then again he may have left her in the home just so she can serve them for feeling she's not worthy enough to have a husband.. At this point in the drana I must thank Granny because of not for her ML would have never been educated if it was left up to the people in that house.. SH seems the type that would have punish ML if he found out she knew how to read without permission..  (SH attitude changed towars ML after her mom died. It was like he never wnted to face this child this is why I think he would ahve sent her our of the hie early on)

[sava2sava]

Insightful @GoldenFlower  I'm going need to look at ny characters from a whole different prospect..

 

I need to read this book thats all to it..

[minglan1]

1 hour ago, ForgottenSoulx said:

Anyone got any good recap's for me of the last like 9 page's... 

 

Anything good happen. 

This was the best post of the page for me.

[tinast]

2 hours ago, bulubulu said:

So in viki its takes only to ep 60 to catch up with the eps thats airing in china (tv version?) but the tv version is already at ep 66. Im quite confused, i saw people say viki is airing uncut, but does it still ends at ep 79?

I think it won't end at ep 79 for viki. Since ep 61 is equal to ep 65 tv series

I really really can't wait for tonight episodes.. i love it so much last night episodes.. i'm so curious to know ML conversations with empress.

It should have something to prevent empress' family downfall

[berryberry]

Spoiler

I've read a few people mentioning GTY asking ML for an amicable separation? What's all that about and when does it happen?  

 

[gleek49]

Remember in ep 14, when SH told Hualan to sit down so he could look at her thoroughly? He was on the verge of tear talking to her. I don't think "he didn't bat an eyelash" is very apt way to describe it. He married HL into that house was a misjudgment, he couldn't predict the crazy MIL. After that, they couldn't just pull her out because she was mistreated, not even grandma could think of anything more than helping her bear a son. I'm not gonna defend SH on every matters, because he was wrong on many fronts, but not Hualan; regarding HL, he did care, and did try his best. He may be a terrible father to ML, it doesn't equate to him being terrible to ALL 6 of his children.

 

About Molan, I agree with @Golden Flower that SH wouldn't approve of her request if her husband weren't there. He was ignoring Molan, only when Liang Han pressed the matter further and Minglan started to protest that he started to agree. It wasn't about Molan, it's about his saving his own face in front of his son in law and claiming authority over Minglan (also the main reason for him slapping Minglan in the latest episode). He was irritated with ML not because she's smarter than his other children, it's because she refused to bowed down to him, thus threatened his authority over her and the family. SH is extremely "saving his own face" oriented, all of his actions are largely motivated by this. I wouldn't call SH evil, cause he's never gone out of his way to hurt ppl, he just really selfish and would always do what benefit him the most. As soon as Minglan represent him a solution that benefits him, he would listen right away, no yelling, no slapping whatsoever. As GTY put it, he loves his reputation more than his family. 

 

Also, I wouldn't  want him to lose everything. If he does, it will only hurt his children. They wouldn't die or be completely destroyed, but it would make their life harder, which is not something I wish for HL, RL, CB and Minglan. He's awful but I hope he turns out okay for his children's sake. 

[hello210]

I agree that all the characters are grey and you can see that they are all shaped by circumstances in their lives. In my opinion, the only truly evil character in this drama is Aunt Kang. I only say this because she literally plays with the lives of everyone around her like they’re her play things to do with as she pleases. I get that as the main wife, she can pretty much do mostly whatever she wants with the concubines and Shu children in her household but everything she has done has been beyond cruel. Sending in a Shu daughter to purposely die so she can use her death to manipulate others is crazy. Stepmom comes close in the game of manipulation but Aunt Kang beats them all. I think maybe this is why I don’t watch a lot of palace dramas since it seems like making servants and unfavored children go on suicide missions is usually a norm in those types of dramas. 

[Jackie1048]

I must say that the older Sheng men are not good husband material. Grandmother went through the pain of her husband concubine causing her own son's death, her older sister in law dying breath was scolding her late husband and Sheng Hong poor management of his own inner court.

 

Watch how Gu Ting Ye glared at Master Kang when he insulted Ming Lan and his arm was always around her during that confrontation. Even the Emperor is a good example of a husband that he was willing to go with his Empress to beg forgiveness. I think it was a shock to the Empress Dowager to see such a sight.

 

I believe they are so used to scheming that they do not see the support between husband and wife.

[hello210]

9 hours ago, sava2sava said:

@nichiwoohee

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Wait did step mom bring the richard simmons back ? 

 

@hello210

 

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This is kind of confusing, Now it seemed the old marquis (GTY father) should have had 4 wives.. I know both sistera didn;t have the same name..

I don't think she waited until GTY turned 20 to decide to kill him.. I'm wondering if the incident on the boat is related to her and not the Bais like he thinks.. Clearly the Bais could have taken GTY and all his mom assets would have come with him.. His Dad only kept him to live off his mom money..

 

Based on the novel spoilers, GTY’s father only had three wives but because of the short timeframe between wives and that it all happened outside the capital people thought the the third wife was the same as the first wife and that all the sons were hers. I guess people thought this because Elder Gu Marquis left the capital with a wife who’s last name was Qin and still returned with a wife with the same last name so they didn’t realize that Big Gu Madame was actually a different Qin daughter or that there had been a Bai daughter in between the two Qin daughters. I got a little confused at first too. I think the drama did a good job of including all the wives. 

          Also I meant that Big Gu Madame had been planning and scheming for at least twenty years or so since GTY is over twenty years old and GTY was very young when she married into the family. Living that way for that long and things not working out as planned could drive a lot of people crazy. 

[mimidq8]

Sorry to trouble everyone,  but which episode is it, when gty goes to qh house to talk to him and at that time qh tells gty that he isn't one to be trusted because of what he did to him in the past? I can't seem to find it.  I know episode 40 is when they meet up at the restaurant and gty refuses to let go of ml, but i can't find the recent one.  Thanks in advance btw

[dito]

5 minutes ago, mimidq8 said:

Sorry to trouble everyone,  but which episode is it, when gty goes to qh house to talk to him and at that time qh tells gty that he isn't one to be trusted because of what he did to him in the past? I can't seem to find it.  I know episode 40 is when they meet up at the restaurant and gty refuses to let go of ml, but i can't find the recent one.  Thanks in advance btw

 

Epi 51......I think or 50.

[nichiwoohee]

1 hour ago, gleek49 said:

Remember in ep 14, when SH told Hualan to sit down so he could look at her thoroughly? He was on the verge of tear talking to her. I don't think "he didn't bat an eyelash" is very apt way to describe it. He married HL into that house was a misjudgment, he couldn't predict the crazy MIL. After that, they couldn't just pull her out because she was mistreated, not even grandma could think of anything more than helping her bear a son. I'm not gonna defend SH on every matters, because he was wrong on many fronts, but not Hualan; regarding HL, he did care, and did try his best. He may be a terrible father to ML, it doesn't equate to him being terrible to ALL 6 of his children.

 

 

We might’ve seen two different things as I dont see him as on the verge of tear, he was tired after being detained by the emperor and told hl that granny will find a way for her, basically just be patient. If I’m not mistaken it was danniang who bring up the subject to granny. As annoying and clueless danniang is, she cares about her own children, not just how for sheng house’s sake

[Golden Flower]

On 2/3/2019 at 1:29 AM, frenchfan said:

Watching this drama made me go through a lot of emotions : this shows that all the actors and actresses are TALENTED.  They played their role so well that we either love, pity, feel sad for them or hates them. Whoever the director is, bravo!  You made the right choice to choose the actors and actresses for the respective roles.  I read that ZLY was chosen as main actress right from the word go but for the male lead, it took them a while.  They had so many choice to choose from.  FSF managed to carry this role well as he gives you the strong male impression.  Plus he is mature for this role like the writer would have wanted. Bravo to the wole casts!   

I think FSF is chosen because he is ZLY's bf at that time and their chemistry on and off screen was talk of the town when their Monkey King's movie BTS came out before showing in theaters (around the time TSofML Male Lead was announced and started the shoot). Although I think FSF is doing a good job in this drama, I also agree to some degree with someone who posted a few days ago that FSF is not really a great actor especially for facial and eye expressions. In current TSofML, his eye expressions towards ML were great (I think it might be contributed by he really being in love with ZLY ). However, I do feel that the look of age difference bt ML and GTY was so much more than it should since ZLY looks a lot younger than her age closer to ML's age even with her mature hair-do but FSF looks in his early 40s (they should have let go off his mustache as he seems to act weird when talking with it). The other actor I think will match GTY is Yuan Hong though I do not know his chemistry with ZLY and whether his lovey-dovey touchy interactions with ZLY after marriage will be as good as FSF since they weren't lovers in reality. There are scenes where FSF put his hand on ML's thighs and her back close to her chest instead of her shoulder while carrying her princess style. (Yuan Hong has been a versatile actor since he could take on very different roles with great emotibility and he has ability to portray differently to his bad/ evil characters.)

I haven't watched all of FSF work and I understand I don't qualify to be a critic. The only other drama I liked his acting was in Beauty's Rival in Palace where he played a few episodes as Marquess of Zhuxu, being great OTP with Myolie Wu. FSF's fan please do not bash me    

 

Spoiler

I have watched FSF's famous shows (Palace Gong, Lanling Wang, The Starry Night season 2), a few movies as well as a few of his 6 older dramas before Palace (though I dropped 5 of them at various time point of the show). I skipped a lot for Lanling Wang after half-way even though I like Ariel Lin's in general. I dropped other two dramas early as I got really bored, annoyed with the story-telling and some of the characters' acting. FSF's acting in all three dramas are meh to me without much variation in facial expressions. I don't have time to point out every single FSF's bad acting in his other work like someone requested but I'm not trolling or his anti-fan. I really am not a fan of any actor (I have way passed the age of being a fangirl) and I have been watching chinese drama as a whole for learning the language, history and culture, and for the story and presentation. I like ZYL in his "love three lives" and liked the drama though not knowing him before or other male lead from before, not a fan of republican era, drama being unrealistic and ZYL was bad second male lead. On the other hand, I didn't like his first male lead drama Royal Sister Returns  though he had good chemistry with Ady An, Ok acting but his costumes and hair were terrible and his portrayal as psychologist wasn't reflective of profession.

 

@sava2sava @minglan1

FYI: All my post today related to SH was actually mentioned/ shown in the drama though some are very brief and easy to miss. So, you don't need to read the book but just to rewatch the scenes where SH as well as Sheng family members are involved and shown (minus QH, GTY, ML scenes and court politics). The only thing I specifically mentioned from the book about SH was "SH requesting grandma to let the girls go back to school after CL pressured him" just to point out the fact that drama writers try to dramatize by adding some scenes. 

@minglan1 I just scanned episode 1-4 for ML alone and ML and her mom scenes but couldn't find anything about her mom reading the book of art of war to ML. I knew her mom told her story about princess Pingyang and the art of war but I don't remember being mentioned she read the book to ML. ML's maternal grandfather was educated and I assumed her mom was verbally told/ taught about the art of war. To me, the drama wasn't clear whether ML's mom was educated up to CL's level. I'm not saying she cannot read at all. However, I'm pretty sure she didn't talk about poetry, writing and chess with SH like CL. CL's talent was mentioned a few times in the drama by grandma and SH.

Spoiler

If you rewatched CW interaction with SH in epi 2, you would see that SH would feel (his facial expression) CW being repulsive to him and he wasn't welcome in her room unlike CL clingy attachment to him. She told him to go back to main house as her house was cold as she was hot from her pregnancy hot flashes. CW didn't complain to SH a bit but lied to him everything was great. When SH found out the truth from ML, he did his best to inquire and stood on CW's side reprimanding both Daniang and CL. It was CL who was good in manipulations making up all the false account books and accusing CW's maid of stealing with all the proofs and witnesses. My point was not about education but CW's efforts to get a place in SH's heart/ mind vs CL's efforts. For SH, CW was just someone Daniang bought for him without much attachment or guilt towards unlike CL. So, he thinks that as long as he provides well and care for her and her children, he fulfills his responsibilities. How could SH know of CW's difficulties and mistreatment if she didn't complain to him or to Daniang who SH considered CW's person? (I do understand CW didn't want to fight and cause trouble within the family but her tolerant was even disappointed by Daniang.) 

@nichiwoohee I'm not trying to police anyone. I quoted your post as it was the most recent post mentioned about SH and I really felt that you were comparing two very different situations. However, I mentioned, that post was intended for characters which are being called evil, stupid and morons and I was using SH as an example to explain the nuances  for those who didn't grasp them and who did not understand to see things in characters' perspectives.

Yin Guo Gong or his wife did not talk to general Shen or go cause ruckus at his house when his concubine Zhou did not respect to their daughter in public by talking back to her many times, making fun of her in public or attending to parties she shouldn't attend. I'm pretty sure they knew that their daughter Zhang did not even attend parties, mainly stayed in her own courtyard at her home where she is supposed to be the main wife in charge and she was badly humiliated by CZ at ML's house which are worse situation than Hulan needing to contribute money to the household to please her mom-in-law in private. He talked to general Shen calmly when they were summoned by ML for their daughter's close to death difficult birth caused by CZ. Btw, YGG's position is higher than general Shen as he is not only general with military control/ 1st grade military minister but also held nobility title and general Shen is only second or third grade military official. SH is only 5th grade official and HL's FIL was third grade nobility. SH even has to give face and respect to his 4th and 6th sons-in-law as their family status is higher than him. So, do you think he would dare to go talk to HL's FIL about his wife giving HL's husband concubines (which is acceptable, SH himself had two in the drama) and using HL's dowry especially since HL willingly gave the money for household to use to prevent her MIL forcing concubines. Also, SH being a man would not go talk to the wife of Count. If husbands of HL and RL were mistreating them (especially RL's) by ignoring them and giving their concubines position like main wife that HL and RL had to hide in their own yard like (the way General Shen did to his new wife in the beginning), I'm pretty sure SH will have a chat with them. 

 

For those interested in official positions and attires: GTY became third grade official similar to general Shen only after he inherited the Marquis title though his military title is still below that of Shen. You can deduce from the official's robe color and their lineup in imperial court. Even if scholar and military officials are same grade, scholar officials are viewed higher than military ones).

 

@bulubulu @tinast I think director's DVD cut version the one viki and youtube used for subbing will end in episode 72. As someone already mentioned, currently epi 61 has  ~ 10 min of TV epi 66. The episodes differ as hunan TV cut the episodes randomly making every episode with different length (sometimes without opening credit or short ending credit) when DVD epi all has same a little over 45 min length. 

@leeza77 In my previous post you tagged, I wasn't blaming ML for her action. She is the heroine and she has to act differently. I'm just pointing how she has been viewed by everyone including SH, Daniang, and Wang family. You will see in today's episode how she has been criticized and devalued by Wang grandma and uncle for her being rude to elders, inflexible, unvirtuous and making things out of proportion which are things people in that era try to avoid in solving family related issues and crimes. 

 

Note: I'm going to refrain myself again from writing on behalf of characters' point of view and trying to point out those characters being grey as they're normal human being in that era (not super hero or heroines like main leads)....hahaha     So, tage me if you want me to comment on any specific things. Cheers!

 

[dancingbee]

Let's take a short break. 
Who among these women is the wicked of them all?

 Lin QinShuang, Molan's mother, Sheng Hong's concubine

 

Manniang, Gu TingYe's mistress

 

Empress Dowager

 

The Emperor's consort

 

Gu TingYe's stepmother

 

Aunt Kang

 

 

Snow White's stepmother, the evil Queen

 

 

[tinast]

10 minutes ago, dancingbee said:

Let's take a short break. 
Who among these women is the wicked of them all?

 Lin QinShuang, Molan's mother, Sheng Hong's concubine

 

Manniang, Gu TingYe's mistress

 

Empress Dowager

 

The Emperor's consort

 

Gu TingYe's stepmother

 

Aunt Kang

 

 

Snow White's stepmother, the evil Queen

 

 

Gu ting ye's stepmother for me. The way she used other persons behind her mask without them knowing.

For me, it's the worst

Doing something while prentending all the time. Venom snake

[leeza77]

20 minutes ago, dancingbee said:

Let's take a short break. 
Who among these women is the wicked of them all?

 Lin QinShuang, Molan's mother, Sheng Hong's concubine

 

Manniang, Gu TingYe's mistress

 

Empress Dowager

 

The Emperor's consort

 

Gu TingYe's stepmother

 

Aunt Kang

 

 

Snow White's stepmother, the evil Queen

 

 

My vote:

1. Auntie Kang (ep 59, ML told stepmom, at 3 person died in her household

2. Linniang - killed ml's mother

3. Stepmom-greed/intent to kill ml

4. Manniang 

5. Ed

6.  Emperor' s consort