[Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] The Rise of Phoenixes 凰权·弈天下

[skibbies]

2 minutes ago, niniandkun said:

 

Hmm... Yea it's evident that they prioritised NingYi's journey over zhiwei's.

So her rumoured extra scenes (in minhai) were bound to be cut I suppose politically sensitive or not. But what about the emperor and son bowing scene? And other scenes with regards to NSZ stepping down for NY. It's not a rebellious or treasonous transition. The emperor just passed the baton willingly to his rightful heir right?

I actually don't know why Minhai is politically sensitive lmao. I saw speculation about Taiwan but none of it resembles Taiwan, it's just the region name implies Fujian which is across the sea from Taiwan. *facepalm* With the NSZ scene, because peacefully passing power might imply the drama endorsing that Xi should peacefully pass over power instead of hogging the position? I GUESS???? even though abdicating is a 2000 year old tradition??? Some emperors are pretty proud of it, even though the supposing "bloodless transfer" is built on scheming and lies and invisible blood, but I guess it's still less death and chaos than straight up war. Anyways, sometimes I think it's people way way belong XI who's afraid random things would offend him so they self censor. Either way, it's super dumb and not showing it on tv doesn't mean the tradition disappear so who are they kidding?

[niniandkun]

29 minutes ago, skibbies said:

Drama Zhiwei is so averse to killing or revenge though, novel zhiwei would probably do so. 

 

Well in the scenario I wrote the idea was that she was provoked and she is shocked that she was indeed capable of doing it. Even though drama Zhiwei is against killing, I'd like to think that NSZ is the one person that can make her cross that line. She was his favourite before and I think she really liked and respected him then too. Until her mom and bro died. That's when things turned sour. There's a kind of hate that can only stem from being close to a person first. I think she was capable of killing him in this context. 

[niniandkun]

11 minutes ago, skibbies said:

I actually don't know why Minhai is politically sensitive lmao. I saw speculation about Taiwan but none of it resembles Taiwan, it's just the region name implies Fujian which is across the sea from Taiwan. *facepalm* With the NSZ scene, because peacefully passing power might imply the drama endorsing that Xi should peacefully pass over power instead of hogging the position? I GUESS???? even though abdicating is a 2000 year old tradition??? Some emperors are pretty proud of it, even though the supposing "bloodless transfer" is built on scheming and lies and invisible blood, but I guess it's still less death and chaos than straight up war. Anyways, sometimes I think it's people way way belong XI who's afraid random things would offend him so they self censor. Either way, it's super dumb and not showing it on tv doesn't mean the tradition disappear so who are they kidding?

 

Wait so the entity (SARFT is it?) that's censoring the TV shows are not under obligation from the government? And they're just cutting even remotely possible offenses just to be safe? 

If that's so then looll so extra. Unless they have reason to be paranoid about. 

 

Like I said its a different model of censorship than what I'm familiar with. 

 

It's too bad that independent works of art made for entertainment have to limit themselves for these really vague associations. 

[skibbies]

15 minutes ago, niniandkun said:

 

Wait so the entity (SARFT is it?) that's censoring the TV shows are not under obligation from the government? And they're just cutting even remotely possible offenses just to be safe? 

If that's so then looll so extra. Unless they have reason to be paranoid about. 

 

Like I said its a different model of censorship than what I'm familiar with. 

 

It's too bad that independent works of art made for entertainment have to limit themselves for these really vague associations. 

It's a government organisation, but what is considered not ok, or hard to pass change year by year (and probably from people to people). It has gotten stricter over the years so no one knows when you'll step on their toes. It also vary depending if you are going to air on TV, and if you have primetime slot and such. Basically it's convoluted and even industry insiders doesn't know for sure what would pass and why they have what looks like haphazardly changed script.

 

Re: previous post: Mhmm Yeah I can see her feeling betrayed and disheartened by the emperor's change of attitude, still can't quite see her killing him, even in fit of passion. Interesting plot bunny though! also i just noticed your name, is that...our OTP? *squints*

[tendrilsofwind]

59 minutes ago, skibbies said:

I actually don't know why Minhai is politically sensitive lmao. I saw speculation about Taiwan but none of it resembles Taiwan, it's just the region name implies Fujian which is across the sea from Taiwan. *facepalm* With the NSZ scene, because peacefully passing power might imply the drama endorsing that Xi should peacefully pass over power instead of hogging the position? I GUESS???? even though abdicating is a 2000 year old tradition??? Some emperors are pretty proud of it, even though the supposing "bloodless transfer" is built on scheming and lies and invisible blood, but I guess it's still less death and chaos than straight up war. Anyways, sometimes I think it's people way way belong XI who's afraid random things would offend him so they self censor. Either way, it's super dumb and not showing it on tv doesn't mean the tradition disappear so who are they kidding?

 

 I couldn't figure out why the stepping down scene was wrong until someone pointed it out. It's so rooted in Chinese history, but apparently it can't be aired anymore. They even changed the Chinese title last minute which is crazy loool but people in China seemed to immediately know why it can't be aired. I've read their explanations, but still no clue how 奕天下can be seen as being threatening and treasonous. My parents always say people who live in places like America don't understand the nuance, so I guess we'll never know. 

 

I also heard they filmed the part about GNY adopting a daughter, but it was cut. I have no evidence for this though.

 

32 minutes ago, niniandkun said:

 

Wait so the entity (SARFT is it?) that's censoring the TV shows are not under obligation from the government? And they're just cutting even remotely possible offenses just to be safe? 

If that's so then looll so extra. Unless they have reason to be paranoid about. 

 

Like I said its a different model of censorship than what I'm familiar with. 

 

It's too bad that independent works of art made for entertainment have to limit themselves for these really vague associations. 

 

SARFT is a government organization. Everyone in the government has been super paranoid lately since XJP is cracking down on corruption, which sounds great, but the problem is every single member of government is corrupt in some way so they try their best to keep on his good side politically.

6 hours ago, skibbies said:

Unrelated I'm kind of half in the shipping Chen Kun/Nini hell, this is such a terrible idea ahhhhh. 

 

 

Don't do it! I've been trying to hold myself back because I know it's wrong, but if you watch their real life interactions...<3 

[skibbies]

8 minutes ago, tendrilsofwind said:

 

 I couldn't figure out why the stepping down scene was wrong until someone pointed it out. It's so rooted in Chinese history, but apparently it can't be aired anymore. They even changed the Chinese title last minute which is crazy loool but people in China seemed to immediately know why it can't be aired. I've read their explanations, but still no clue how 奕天下can be seen as being threatening and treasonous. My parents always say people who live in places like America don't understand the nuance, so I guess we'll never know. 

 

I also heard they filmed the part about GNY adopting a daughter, but it was cut. I have no evidence for this though.

 

 

SARFT is a government organization. Everyone in the government has been super paranoid lately since XJP is cracking down on corruption, which sounds great, but the problem is every single member of government is corrupt in some way so they try their best to keep on his good side politically.

 

Don't do it! I've been trying to hold myself back because I know it's wrong, but if you watch their real life interactions...<3 

皇权易天下, literally royal power can change the world which hey that supports the fedual system, nope! The second meaning would be the world can change power at any times, which...is a reference to him I guess. You can interpret it about 5 different ways and when you try hard enough, all of them will round back to "potentially offensive". I actually really like its original name, rip drama, you should have been made 5 years ago.

 

There's a photo somewhere where someone (scriptwriter? one of the staff) was holding the script by a lake. The scene was straight copy and paste scene from the book, written in screenplay format, I think it references her? There's also a photo of Ning Sheng (? the second prince!) holding a little girl that people suspect might be her. (He...doesn't really exist in the book, he got some of Ning Chuan/crown prince's events, but most importantly neither of them have a daughter that played major role in the story. I have no idea why HE of all people was holding a kid though. It could be just a guest role and kid really is his daughter, along with his schrodinger wife that could had guest role but got written out)

 

I think they had script that was pretty close to the novel (initial press release were leaning towards faithful to then novel), then kept rewriting them to polish, and later rewrite them on set for reasons. Even much later, they probably rewrote them for the ending we see now. The documentary was shot over pretty long period of time but vast majority of them would have been around October/November I think? They shot the heavier otp scenes later in their schedule. There's exact dates for when they flew out to Guiyang (another set) to shoot the Da Yue lake scene. I should double check when  but I'm too lazy...I think that might have been September, oops.

 

They are so cute together ahhh. I don't normally ship people since it'd all end badly and sometimes feel vaguely creepy. At most, I ship their characters and extend my wish to see them together but that's about it. BUT THIS OTP. what with the drama not ending well and it's just pain and suffering all around for them, all the fluff are in the behind the scenes and real life interactions! why this.

[niniandkun]

49 minutes ago, skibbies said:

It's a government organisation, but what is considered not ok, or hard to pass change year by year (and probably from people to people). It has gotten stricter over the years so no one knows when you'll step on their toes. It also vary depending if you are going to air on TV, and if you have primetime slot and such. Basically it's convoluted and even industry insiders doesn't know for sure what would pass and why they have what looks like haphazardly changed script

 

That just sucks!! Maybe this should have been made a few years earlier with a younger Chen Kun <3 not that he looks old but still.

51 minutes ago, skibbies said:

 

Re: previous post: Mhmm Yeah I can see her feeling betrayed and disheartened by the emperor's change of attitude, still can't quite see her killing him, even in fit of passion. Interesting plot bunny though! also i just noticed your name, is that...our OTP? *squints*

 

Ahaha yea it is our OTP. I found this forum after googling 'rise of the phoenixes alternative ending'. The username is in honour of their incredible performances.

And the passion I'm imagining for Zhiwei is different from NingYi's rage. NingYi sort of enjoys the crude act of personally killing someone to avenge his loved one. Zhiwei would be fine if someone else did it too. I remember her anger at Chang Hai when Zhu Yin was killed. If NY didn't kill him had he come in front of FZW, she could've I believe. So this killing for her is like rage and desperation, that's been brewing for a long time now finally bursting at his provocation/insult. 

 

[Pollen Ainne]

2 hours ago, niniandkun said:

 

I could watch 7 seasons of that! Except I'd prefer her to still be Wei Zhi and lead double lives so there'd be tension of her cover being blown. 

How I miss their inside jokes and cute banter. Remember when they picked on helian zheng together when he couldn't answer that logic question? Ah if only.... 

 

Oh that would work too. Maybe her gender will get discovered in like the last season or so. Oh yes, the banter. So much fun. And the ones in Minhai when they were picking on Zhongxin while he was kneeling there on the floor. The knowing looks they gave each other. I loved that tandem. I usually find that type of chemistry between two male leads, its amazing how they captured that aura. I really enjoy Zhiwei playing advisor. She captures that role so charmingly.

[niniandkun]

1 hour ago, tendrilsofwind said:

 I couldn't figure out why the stepping down scene was wrong until someone pointed it out. It's so rooted in Chinese history, but apparently it can't be aired anymore. They even changed the Chinese title last minute which is crazy loool but people in China seemed to immediately know why it can't be aired. I've read their explanations, but still no clue how 奕天下can be seen as being threatening and treasonous. My parents always say people who live in places like America don't understand the nuance, so I guess we'll never know. 

 

1 hour ago, skibbies said:

皇权易天下, literally royal power can change the world which hey that supports the fedual system, nope! The second meaning would be the world can change power at any times, which...is a reference to him I guess. You can interpret it about 5 different ways and when you try hard enough, all of them will round back to "potentially offensive". I actually really like its original name, rip drama, you should have been made 5 years ago.

 

Well if you guys have trouble understanding it then there is no hope for the rest of us! lol!

It is interesting to know that in china they intuitively understand why its wrong.

1 hour ago, skibbies said:

I think they had script that was pretty close to the novel (initial press release were leaning towards faithful to then novel)

Thats probably why in many synopsis's I read online about the show its says its a story about the Dacheng princess taking revenge and going against NY. Obv this didnt happen.

 

1 hour ago, skibbies said:

They are so cute together ahhh. I don't normally ship people since it'd all end badly and sometimes feel vaguely creepy. At most, I ship their characters and extend my wish to see them together but that's about it. BUT THIS OTP. what with the drama not ending well and it's just pain and suffering all around for them, all the fluff are in the behind the scenes and real life interactions! why this. 

I'm embarrased by how many unsubbed BTS and tv show videos I've seen just to watch them interact. They seem so comfortable with each other.

42 minutes ago, Pollen Ainne said:

Oh that would work too. Maybe her gender will get discovered in like the last season or so. Oh yes, the banter. So much fun. And the ones in Minhai when they were picking on Zhongxin while he was kneeling there on the floor. The knowing looks they gave each other. I loved that tandem. I usually find that type of chemistry between two male leads, its amazing how they captured that aura. I really enjoy Zhiwei playing advisor. She captures that role so charmingly.

 

Omg that was the next scene I thought of when you mentioned this. Any time they are in on something and tricking other people. Even when she was ugly FZW and they met yuluo and that super thirsty chick hahaha. They are so delicious lool. And I agree their chemistry in those moments (specifically when FZW was in guy mode) were almost like a sacred bromance! This makes us perceive them as more intimate.

We don't see that sort of connection much. I wish I could spell out what it is. Usually Male/Female leads even if they're platonic have a different dynamic between them. 

This also makes it more apparent how much NY likes and connects with her as a person...an individual, other than just desiring her as a woman.

[sonosong]

4 hours ago, niniandkun said:

NingYi sort of enjoys the crude act of personally killing someone to avenge his loved one.

I've been lurking, but made an account just so I could chip in my two cents about this haha. In particular, Ning Yi's character as portrayed by Chen Kun.

 

I personally don't think he enjoys killing people but strongly believes in meting out justice. He also believes in redemption. Remember when that one official tells Peng Pei that if he turns back to doing the right thing, there would be a way? Remember that beautiful speech Ning Yi gave to Ziyan near the beginning where he refused to fight for the throne if it meant lining the path with the blood of innocent people? And again near the end where he says he gave up the fight for the throne to be with his mother because so many people were dying? Ning Yi is essentially upright and honest in his motives, and I believe Gu Yan would not continue serving for him if he was any different. But I suppose stubbornly sticking to his beliefs is also his biggest flaw.

 

Honestly it was easy to get swept up by his raw energy, passion, and that fierce glint in his eye during his speeches that I wanted to believe it was possible. Pave a way to the throne without harming innocent people? Who wouldn't want that? But I, like Ziyan, knew since the beginning that there is no way for him to ascend the throne unblemished. In order for him to attain his goal, other people had to suffer. Ziyan was still willing to help Ning Yi despite losing Erhua and his unborn baby, and even though I know his judgement was clouded by recent events, Ning Yi really disappointed me when he couldn't see past the facade and cast Ziyan aside. 

 

He and Zhiwei are so alike in this respect, it was frustrating to watch.

Edited October 16, 2018 by sonosong

[niniandkun]

55 minutes ago, sonosong said:

I've been lurking, but made an account just so I could chip in my two cents about this haha. In particular, Ning Yi's character as portrayed by Chen Kun. I personally don't think he enjoys killing people but strongly believes in meting out justice. He also believes in redemption. Remember when that one official tells Peng Pei that if he turns back to doing the right thing, there is a way to redeem himself with the Prince of Chu? That official had been corrupt but changed his ways. It was never "too late." Remember that beautiful speech he gave to Ziyan near the beginning where he refused to fight for the throne if it meant killing innocent people? And again near the end where he says he gave up the fight for the throne to be with his mother because so many people were dying? Ning Yi is essentially upright and honest in his motives, and I believe Gu Yan would not continue serving for him if he was any different. But I suppose that his sense of justice also served as his biggest flaw.

 

Honestly I was so swept up by his raw energy, passion, and that fierce glint in his eye during his speeches, that I wanted to believe it was possible. Pave a way to the throne without involving innocent people? Who wouldn't want that? But I, like Ziyan, knew since the beginning that there is no way for him to ascend the throne without the loss of innocent lives, but Ning Yi couldn't admit that, instead turning the blame on Ziyan. He and Zhiwei are so alike in this respect, it was beautiful yet frustrating.
 

 

I completely agree with everything you've said here! And i didn't mean it like he is a sadist or enjoys killing people but in that context I was comparing NingYi's temper and style of rage to zhiwei's. I feel like NingYi takes more pleasure in punishing wrongdoers and meting out justice compared to her. This is evident when he killed Ning Chuan, brought the Lord of Minhai's case to the emperor etc.

He's not impulsive, he'll wait but when the time comes to serve my impression is that he sort of enjoys it. You even get crazed vibe when he says to zhiwei "ELIMINATE ALL EVIL" (I'm sure this was translated bad and sounds more eloquent in mandarin).

 

For sure he isn't without compassion and understands that morality isn't black and white, and that people can be manipulated or pressured into doing wrong things but would he have ever forgiven ning chuan even if he begged? I doubt it.

 

Zhiwei on the other hand detests hurting other people. Her sense of justice is more purehearted in that she doesn't take any pleasure in punishing wrong doers just wants to save those who suffer and get them out of that situation. Punishment is more a necessary evil in her world view.

 

And yes both of them are very idealistic. Maybe a bit too much. Their stances aren't contrary just slightly different.

 

Ofcourse goes without saying this is all just my opinion.

 

 

[Pollen Ainne]

7 hours ago, niniandkun said:

Omg that was the next scene I thought of when you mentioned this. Any time they are in on something and tricking other people. Even when she was ugly FZW and they met yuluo and that super thirsty chick hahaha. They are so delicious lool. And I agree their chemistry in those moments (specifically when FZW was in guy mode) were almost like a sacred bromance! This makes us perceive them as more intimate.

We don't see that sort of connection much. I wish I could spell out what it is. Usually Male/Female leads even if they're platonic have a different dynamic between them. 

This also makes it more apparent how much NY likes and connects with her as a person...an individual, other than just desiring her as a woman.

Yes, that scene was wonderful. Ning Yi was actually teasing Zhiwei but then her cousin and that other girl appeared and suddenly the joke was on them. They were so good together.

 

Yes male and female leads, especially in most asian dramas have a kind of playful or tragic romantic vibe which wasn't what I would describe Ning Yi and Zhiwei. Their interaction were a lot more than romantic, it is something that tickles the soul. lol. There is a deeper connection than just "romance". Because everyone who has experienced romance knows that it fades away. But what they had was a connection that could last forever... so lets not talk about the ending, lol!

 

And about Ning Yi connecting with Zhiwei more than just desiring a woman, this is what it all boils down to. This is what makes their relationship so precious. They were not just crushing on each other like in most dramas. And this is the biggest difference between the emperor and Yale (not counting that she didn't like him back, lol). The relationship is not even remotely comparable. The emperor saw her beauty (smelled her fragrance more like it, lol) and desired her. Ning Yi was never bedazzled by Zhiwei. It was funny when he said she looked hideous when she cried, but then much later on in the series, he asked her why she looked more beautiful when she cries. Oh I would like to note that Zhiwei was more bedazzeled by Gu Nanyi than Ning Yi. lol

 

But romance-wise, I really love the fact that they can't seem to consider other people. I love how that noble lady tried to get with Ning Yi but Ning Yi just gave her one liner responses. He was not even trying to rebuff her, he just simply wasn't interested. And when Helian Zheng gave Zhiwei the flowers, any woman would feel flattered by his complete attention, but Zhiwei would not even look up. She didn't even give the flowers a single glance.

 

8 hours ago, niniandkun said:

 

That just sucks!! Maybe this should have been made a few years earlier with a younger Chen Kun <3 not that he looks old but still.

So I have been trying to watch his movies, for some reason I find him more attractive now than in his older movies...

 

Him in Hua Mulan (2009)

 

 

Him in Lost in 1949 (2018)

 

 

I find him a lot more gorgeous now than before.

[Pollen Ainne]

2 hours ago, sonosong said:

I've been lurking, but made an account just so I could chip in my two cents about this haha. In particular, Ning Yi's character as portrayed by Chen Kun.

 

I personally don't think he enjoys killing people but strongly believes in meting out justice. He also believes in redemption. Remember when that one official tells Peng Pei that if he turns back to doing the right thing, there would be a way? Remember that beautiful speech Ning Yi gave to Ziyan near the beginning where he refused to fight for the throne if it meant lining the path with the blood of innocent people? And again near the end where he says he gave up the fight for the throne to be with his mother because so many people were dying? Ning Yi is essentially upright and honest in his motives, and I believe Gu Yan would not continue serving for him if he was any different. But I suppose stubbornly sticking to his beliefs is also his biggest flaw.

 

Honestly it was easy to get swept up by his raw energy, passion, and that fierce glint in his eye during his speeches that I wanted to believe it was possible. Pave a way to the throne without harming innocent people? Who wouldn't want that? But I, like Ziyan, knew since the beginning that there is no way for him to ascend the throne unblemished. In order for him to attain his goal, other people had to suffer. Ziyan was still willing to help Ning Yi despite losing Erhua and his unborn baby, and even though I know his judgement was clouded by recent events, Ning Yi really disappointed me when he couldn't see past the facade and cast Ziyan aside. 

 

He and Zhiwei are so alike in this respect, it was frustrating to watch.

Ning Yi is also one who twists logic to meet his emotional needs. He has been doing it from the start. This has been stated clearly in his conversation with Headmaster Xin. So although I believe in his ideals, I do not believe that his ideals is what caused him to give up. He wanted his mother back. That was the complete truth. And he was willing to do anything to get her back and keep her safe. Anything else is just bs excuses. From that point forward, I was disappointed in Ning Yi. Not because he was willing to do anything to get his mother back, because that is one of his strengths, but because he gave up on himself and his confidence. It was apparent in the next episodes after that he has lost his touch and he never regained it.

Proofs:

1)There was no passion when he argued with Xin ZIyan about him quitting. He simply gave his excuses without trying to make Xin Ziyan understand his point. Before, he was so fierce when he was placing logical excuses for his emotional choices but there was none of that after he relinquished his title.

2) He gave up on Zhiwei right away when he saw her happily walking the streets with Helian Zheng

3) He lost confidence that Zhiwei would not do anything to harm him because she was now Queen of Jinshi

 

With his loss of status, he completely lost confidence. He didn't think he could make Zhiwei happy anymore. He didn't think he had it in him to fulfill his dreams, and because he was not confident in himself, he was no longer confident on Zhiwei's love for him as well.

 

Zhiwei's change was more surprising to me. She suddenly caved in when the 4th prince was talking to her, she had been so strong until then. It was a "wtf" moment for me. To be honest, it wouldn't have been too bad if Ning Yi fell of grace if the heroine remained strong and pulled him up... but guess not.

[sonosong]

1 hour ago, Pollen Ainne said:

So I have been trying to watch his movies, for some reason I find him more attractive now than in his older movies...

I COMPLETELY agree with you that the Chen Kun we see today is so much more attractive. He was cute before, but his features are more defined now in his forties. My first and only thing that I've seen him in before this is Balzac and the Little Chinese Seamstress. I hardly watch C-series, so this is my first time seeing him on the small screen. Out of all the male Chinese actors I've seen so far, he is by far the most interesting to me.

 

42 minutes ago, Pollen Ainne said:

So although I believe in his ideals, I do not believe that his ideals is what caused him to give up. He wanted his mother back. That was the complete truth. And he was willing to do anything to get her back and keep her safe. Anything else is just bs excuses. 

Hey, you may be right. I'd have to watch the scenes over again to see if I still feel the same. I basically marathoned the last 7 episodes last night and may have missed some things.

 

One thing that I would like to say for the series is that I'm glad the characters are so well-developed that we can spend hours analyzing them like this. 

[Pollen Ainne]

1 hour ago, sonosong said:

I COMPLETELY agree with you that the Chen Kun we see today is so much more attractive. He was cute before, but his features are more defined now in his forties. My first and only thing that I've seen him in before this is Balzac and the Little Chinese Seamstress. I hardly watch C-series, so this is my first time seeing him on the small screen. Out of all the male Chinese actors I've seen so far, he is by far the most interesting to me.

 

Hey, you may be right. I'd have to watch the scenes over again to see if I still feel the same. I basically marathoned the last 7 episodes last night and may have missed some things.

 

One thing that I would like to say for the series is that I'm glad the characters are so well-developed that we can spend hours analyzing them like this. 

I don't even really watch cdramas much. I try but I only get a few episodes in. The longest was Ice Fantasy, I think I got to episode 30+, but mostly I get to like 3-15. The only reason I got into RoTP was because it was in Netflix and it looked visually good. And then Ning Yi hooked me in, now I am just watching Chen Kun's movies. I am a very picky person, but when I like something, I am obsessed with it. It's very unhealthy.

 

As for the characters, it all depends on the viewers I guess. When I express my thoughts, I get passionate enough to sell them as truths, but they are all just my own opinions. lol. I just get carried away.

 

Oh btw, I love how Ning Yi holds up his clothes like a fairytale princess all the time. To anyone, it would look really gay, but for some reason, it just adds to Ning Yi's appeal. lol

[niniandkun]

2 hours ago, Pollen Ainne said:

And about Ning Yi connecting with Zhiwei more than just desiring a woman, this is what it all boils down to. This is what makes their relationship so precious. They were not just crushing on each other like in most dramas. And this is the biggest difference between the emperor and Yale (not counting that she didn't like him back, lol). The relationship is not even remotely comparable. The emperor saw her beauty (smelled her fragrance more like it, lol) and desired her. Ning Yi was never bedazzled by Zhiwei. It was funny when he said she looked hideous when she cried, but then much later on in the series, he asked her why she looked more beautiful when she cries. Oh I would like to note that Zhiwei was more bedazzeled by Gu Nanyi than Ning Yi. lol 

 

But romance-wise, I really love the fact that they can't seem to consider other people. I love how that noble lady tried to get with Ning Yi but Ning Yi just gave her one liner responses. He was not even trying to rebuff her, he just simply wasn't interested. And when Helian Zheng gave Zhiwei the flowers, any woman would feel flattered by his complete attention, but Zhiwei would not even look up. She didn't even give the flowers a single glance. 

 

Honestly still can't believe the emperor had the gall to compare NY and FZW to him and Ya Le.

NY was willing to die multiple times for FZW. NSZ wouldn't do an ounce of that for Ya Le. She was just an object for him to posses and store in his harem collection.

 

Thats how you know how full of himself he is. Plus didn't he know about zhanbi? And its hilarious how he keeps speaking of them as if they were just a formerly happy married couple now going through a few problems. Like when NY goes to speak to him after she died....he says something along the lines of "thats between your mother and me". His "relationship" with Ya Le was a farce. She was forced to marry him to protect her sister, then later locked her up for 20yrs, killed her whole tribe and kept her away from her son. Just your run of the mill couple probs loooll. 
 

As for the bedazzling, I think both of them are too sophisticated to be impressed by regular people or superficial pleasantries. Their standards are much higher.  Even with each other, though they were intrigued and noticed the other person it wasn't "love at first sight".

NY didn't jump through hoops to impress FZW. Unlike some other people *cough* *Helian Zheng*.

And FZW didn't jump at the chance to marry a prince (NY) or stay with him after she was kicked out from home.

 

If they took a while to properly fall for each other (whom they are made for lol) its no wonder other people don't hold a candle.

And when they finally did completely fall in love, even without them saying the word love we could see the depth of their connection. Its something this show did really well. Too bad afterwards....ahhh!!! Abort Mission! Abort!

 

[niniandkun]

1 hour ago, sonosong said:

2 hours ago, Pollen Ainne said:

So I have been trying to watch his movies, for some reason I find him more attractive now than in his older movies...

I COMPLETELY agree with you that the Chen Kun we see today is so much more attractive. He was cute before, but his features are more defined now in his forties. 

 

I do find him very attractive now and I certainly don't want a baby faced look in this series but there were some scenes in the beginning episodes where I thought he looked a bit gaunt. Like I didnt buy it that he was only 26. Actually there was one scene I remember thinking hmm this guy doesnt look good lol (Don't Kill Me haha) he had his hair down and just two um wrinkles? that looked like a line from his eyes to his jaw. Maybe it was an effect of lighting? Wow this is weird. 

 

I'm not very familiar with him so I just generally assumed younger = better but now that I've checked out his older works I think I agree that the definition suits him.

[Pollen Ainne]

1 hour ago, niniandkun said:

 

Honestly still can't believe the emperor had the gall to compare NY and FZW to him and Ya Le.

NY was willing to die multiple times for FZW. NSZ wouldn't do an ounce of that for Ya Le. She was just an object for him to posses and store in his harem collection.

 

Thats how you know how full of himself he is. Plus didn't he know about zhanbi? And its hilarious how he keeps speaking of them as if they were just a formerly happy married couple now going through a few problems. Like when NY goes to speak to him after she died....he says something along the lines of "thats between your mother and me". His "relationship" with Ya Le was a farce. She was forced to marry him to protect her sister, then later locked her up for 20yrs, killed her whole tribe and kept her away from her son. Just your run of the mill couple probs loooll. 

IKR! The audacity... Zhiwei should have slapped him in the face with that logic. If I was Zhiwei, I would have laughed at his face. If Ning Yi's love for Zhiwei was anything remotely close to his father's, he would never have given her up to Helian Zheng, even if it cost her her life. But no, he went against orders to kill Helian Zheng even when the reward was his Nanny that was his only connection to his mom. He made sure to secure Zhiwei's safety first. And on the bridge, he was begging Zhiwei to stay and when she didn't, he let her go. He could have just kidnapped her and caged her if he wanted to. Like... I can't believe... ugh... 

 

1 hour ago, niniandkun said:

As for the bedazzling, I think both of them are too sophisticated to be impressed by regular people or superficial pleasantries. Their standards are much higher.  Even with each other, though they were intrigued and noticed the other person it wasn't "love at first sight".

NY didn't jump through hoops to impress FZW. Unlike some other people *cough* *Helian Zheng*.

And FZW didn't jump at the chance to marry a prince (NY) or stay with him after she was kicked out from home.

 

If they took a while to properly fall for each other (whom they are made for lol) its no wonder other people don't hold a candle.

And when they finally did completely fall in love, even without them saying the word love we could see the depth of their connection. Its something this show did really well. Too bad afterwards....ahhh!!! Abort Mission! Abort!

 

Yes, you said it perfectly. I don't really believe in soulmates but that's what it felt like. Their desperation for each other felt real instead of childish. Like, I see Romeo-and-Juliet-like movies wherein instead of feeling their desperation, I just want to slap them back to reality. But at that time when Zhiwei's heritage was revealed, they made the tragedy feel so real. If the series ended with their parting at that time and never meeting each other ever again, I would have said it was a beautiful tragedy.

 

1 hour ago, niniandkun said:

 

I do find him very attractive now and I certainly don't want a baby faced look in this series but there were some scenes in the beginning episodes where I thought he looked a bit gaunt. Like I didnt buy it that he was only 26. Actually there was one scene I remember thinking hmm this guy doesnt look good lol (Don't Kill Me haha) he had his hair down and just two um wrinkles? that looked like a line from his eyes to his jaw. Maybe it was an effect of lighting? Wow this is weird. 

 

I'm not very familiar with him so I just generally assumed younger = better but now that I've checked out his older works I think I agree that the definition suits him.

 

I wasn't familiar either until now. I think his acting skills are also much better now than before. And to be honest, I never found him attractive at first. He was sort of like "meh" to me. I didn't see the wrinkles though and I was kinda shocked he was 42, but he didn't look that young either. But at first I was just intrigued with his acting. He made the character feel so interesting. Then he grew on me. For some reason, he suddenly became so smexy... I think it's the character that he created... and it rubbed off to him because he is such a good actor.

[sonosong]

4 hours ago, niniandkun said:

For sure he isn't without compassion and understands that morality isn't black and white, and that people can be manipulated or pressured into doing wrong things but would he have ever forgiven ning chuan even if he begged? I doubt it.

 

Zhiwei on the other hand detests hurting other people. Her sense of justice is more purehearted in that she doesn't take any pleasure in punishing wrong doers just wants to save those who suffer and get them out of that situation. Punishment is more a necessary evil in her world view.

 

Hmm, actually now that I think of it, this is true. Ning Yi would never have forgiven Ning Chuan. I'm sure that after being locked away for 18 years, ostracized by his brothers, manipulated by his own father, there is definitely something dark hidden underneath the surface. Whereas Zhiwei seems a bit more pure-hearted. If anything I wish he could have just stayed a carefree prince and she his little raccoon forever and never gone into the palace. 

 

Ugh, I seriously need to rewatch this again. I binged the whole series in a matter of 3 weeks and now that I'm reading everyone's posts I feel like I'm missing so much. 
 

Edited October 16, 2018 by sonosong

[sonosong]

1 hour ago, niniandkun said:

As for the bedazzling, I think both of them are too sophisticated to be impressed by regular people or superficial pleasantries. Their standards are much higher.  Even with each other, though they were intrigued and noticed the other person it wasn't "love at first sight".

NY didn't jump through hoops to impress FZW. Unlike some other people *cough* *Helian Zheng*.

And FZW didn't jump at the chance to marry a prince (NY) or stay with him after she was kicked out from home.

But that scene at the beginning where she was undressing, there were definitely sparks because I sure felt it. Was it just me? Maybe it was just me? LOL. I think there was some initial attraction between them because they were both so different from other people they've met, and that later developed into a strong and loyal friendship until love finally blossomed.  That scene where gently pulls her toward him to confess his feelings, and she roughly tugs him closer to say hers and his surprised look sums them up so well. Omg, these two are SO precious!