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[Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] The Rise of Phoenixes 凰权·弈天下


sugarplum892

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I read ninjareflection and it gave me hope. What's the point in basing a show on a novel then stopping half-way, with lots of loose ends? The writer probably couldn't say whether or not there will be a season 2, but leaving the ending open is an old trick and indicates that the producers were keeping their options open. Netflix may well commission another season as TROTP has been an international success, though not so much in China...I'm still hoping...

 

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On 12/18/2018 at 4:38 AM, Diaroadic said:

@Pollen AinneI wonder if NY was Zhuyin's lover...there's a moment when FZ asks Zhuyin about her relationship with him and she looks away and is silent for a moment before explaining that both she and NY had had difficult lives. And then later when NY asks Zhuyin about her plans for the future and suggests she should find a good man and settle down, a tear streams down her face.

Welcome to the forum :)

I don't think they were lovers or even slept together. NY doesn't show a sliver of attraction towards her and there is no lingering awkwardness between them. Zhu Yin wouldn't be so casual teasing him about Zhiwei. He came to Lanxiang on the pretext of being a tailor and exaggerated his eccentricity. Think that helped him get away with not sleeping with anyone.

Regarding her reaction on those two scenes, the first one I think it's because she was suddenly reminded of the Wugu incident. The tragedy of that incident and how it ruined their lives is what brought NY and Zhu Yin together.

Second reaction, well...she was forced to live in a brothel for 8yrs. Probably tired of men. And after going through everything she had, settling down like a normal person might have seemed so far fetched. There's no way she can truly re-enter honourable society, she'll always be shunned for being a Lanxiang woman. Their convo after that is how zhiwei inspired her to be curious about the world and look beyond what was typically expected from them.

 

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I think the chance of s2 will be super low, and even if they do, I sincerely hope it's with a different cast and story. This story is fairly complete, it's just all the deleted scenes gaps, continuing it would be Ning Yi as an emperor. As far as making that as a drama, it's not going to be pretty. It'd have to be court intrigue which this team could be decent at, but not excellent, and would be hard to get pass SARFT I think. 

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2 hours ago, skibbies said:

I think the chance of s2 will be super low, and even if they do, I sincerely hope it's with a different cast and story. This story is fairly complete, it's just all the deleted scenes gaps, continuing it would be Ning Yi as an emperor. As far as making that as a drama, it's not going to be pretty. It'd have to be court intrigue which this team could be decent at, but not excellent, and would be hard to get pass SARFT I think. 

@skibbies S1 ended about halfway through the novel/story it's based on. The second half of the novel follows FZ and Gu Nanyi's  adventures and brings FZ and NY back together again - a great story-line for S2 imo.

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RITUAL ETIQUETTE VIDEO HERE!

 

All of the behind the scenes videos for The Rise of Phoenixes are incredible but the one on ritual etiquette and bowing is my favorite, which I just watched. It underscored just how careful the showrunners were in constructing a complete world with its own internal logic (at least in the beginning…) The etiquette master talks extensively about how movement and physicality is inextricable from culture and how they’ve used these ritual movements to create fuller characters who are more authentically of their time and culture (even if in this case, the culture is a fictional one inspired by imperial China). This is the kind of attention to detail that makes this show immersive as hell.  

 

The best BEST BEEEESSST part is from 7:07-9:10 in which the etiquette master discusses the scene where Feng Zhiwei goes back to her old home with Gu Nanyi to see her mother for the first time since beginning her cross-dressing political adventures. Zhiwei has been disguised as a man, kicking richard simmons and taking names at court for a time by that point, but when she sees her mother after so long, she greets her with a woman’s bow. It’s her mom and Zhiwei’s been hiding from everyone but she doesn’t have to hide in front of her mother. And of course we know how that scene ends, with Zhiwei’s mother pushing her to give up her position so that her identity won’t be discovered, with Zhiwei refusing and finally, defiantly, bowing goodbye as a man. For a character who’s never fully able to be herself, who’s always slipping in between worlds and never quite fitting completely, this was such a heartbreaking moment of realization. She can’t go back to who she was and where she came from but neither can she give up even though it will inevitably cause her… just too much pain.  

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On 12/6/2018 at 8:09 AM, altamarea said:

Wow It's amazing!  Sorry to cut your comment.

Ciao a tutti!

 Hi, I'm addicted with this drama.

Thank you all for the interesting comments, I read you with pleasure!
 

Benvenuto in Italy   storyofthestone !

Welcome to Italy! Thank you for the interesting love story, I know it, and I love the Basilica of San Vitale. I live here on the Adriatic, near Ravenna, in Rimini. Are you planning to visit the Republic of San Marino? We wish you a pleasant stay and vivid impressions.

 

Hi altamarea! I had a great time in Italy! It was actually my second time this year. Did not go to San Marino; only Rome, Venice, Ravenna, and Orvieto.

 

I love that the fans of this show are so international, by the way. It makes the discussions incredibly interesting, having so many different cultural perspectives. 

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On 11/28/2018 at 5:32 PM, tendrilsofwind said:

 

That's such an amazing detail. I love it when other people pick up on things like this and share it.

 

 

I don't think Ning Yi knows what a healthy relationship looks like. He loves his mother like an eight year old boy--with an insatiable hunger for contact, all petulant tantrums and reckless behavior. Throughout the show, he craves intimacy, but also draws away at its unfamiliarity. The only thing he seems certain of is his mother's unconditional love for him. I can't think of a logical reason for him rejecting Zhiwei either, but NY is never logical when it comes to matters of the heart. I guess that's what happens when you start repressing your emotions at birth. Even in Minhai, he never let her plot with him. He always felt the urge to protect her, even after she learned to protect herself, even when it involved decisions he had no right to make. I don't want to say this applies to all men, but a lot of men, especially those who believe themselves to be brilliant, truly think they always know better. 

 


Is your username a reference to Dream of the Red Chamber? You should be used to anguish and misery then haha that show messed me up when I watched it as a child. 

 

For those of you devastated by the ending, just keep in mind no one in Chinese drama history has ever died after jumping off a cliff. The statistics are on our side. 

 

Haha, yes, it is a reference to A Dream of the Red Chamber. I read an English translation with the most gorgeous color illustrations when I was 11 and then watched the show from the 1980s. Probably the first drama I was ever emotionally invested in... I don't think I should have been watching and reading stuff like that at that age though. Too much sadness.

 

I absolutely love what you wrote re: NY and his complete lack of reference for healthy relationships. After finally finishing the show I feel so conflicted about the trajectory of his characterization. On one hand, someone like him has the cards stacked against him in terms of building healthy relationships and knowing how to be a good friend and partner. It was going to be an uphill battle from the beginning to learn how to be a person who knows how to trust and to express his emotions in a healthy manner. I think he equated love with the ability to protect and that warped into possessiveness when he gains omnipotent power as emperor.

 

On the other hand, I really hated that in the last part of the show, the writers kept trying to draw a parallel between NY and his horrible father, as if it was inevitable and predestined that he would turn out the exact same way. But Ning Shizheng and Yale's relationship was never analogous to NY and ZW's relationship. Yale was always an object of abuse and a prisoner in that whole deal. I felt like the writers wanted us the audience to empathize with the emperor's horrific actions. The writers seemed to want the audience to take it for granted that NY was going to become terrible in the same way that his dad was and so kept making him act in ways that would reinforce this idea. NY may have been a calculating, stone-cold schemer, but ultimately when it came to ZW, he wanted her to stay alive and be happy, even if it meant letting her go. So I resented that they were trying to set up NY as inevitably turning into his father, this selfish, heartless, possessive, paranoid patriarch who thinks he knows best for everyone. They are similar in some ways, but the way they wrote the predestined nature of NY's fate really bothered my optimistic American soul...

 

The emperor kept insisting that he and Yale were the same as NY and ZW and nobody ever calls him on that richard simmons. And then NY even kind of tacitly forgave his dad in the end, even though dad kept mom in solitary confinement for 18 years, which is literally psychological torture. We as the audience can see the episodes and episodes worth of evidence that NY and ZW are not like the emperor and Yale, but I didn't have confidence that the writers were on the same page as us. It felt like they were trying to make NY selfish and possessive in the last part of the show so as to justify the ending/force that parallel between father and son. NY went through so much struggle and character development. He had his own kind of idealism and in the end will be doomed to repeat the same mistakes of his dad? Were they implying that he'll also end up with a bunch of sons who will kill each other to succeed him? Like when he told XZY that he would never treat his sons like his dad, was that supposed to be foreshadowing that he actually would end up doing the same?

 

I think, for me, that horrible bed scene was the pivotal scene that made me realize what the writers' intentions were. As the story progressed, ZW became more and more sure (a faith that was sorely tested) that NY would never do anything to hurt her. And then there he was, physically shoving her onto the bed in that scene and also demanding that she be empress. He basically held the safety of the Dacheng subjects hostage in order to get her to agree to be empress. When that would mean she NEVER gets reincarnated. Did he forget about her oath? He can't have all her lifetimes if she marries him in that one. I think that's one of the signs that the writers intended for him to turn into a person who she ultimately couldn't trust to prioritize her wellbeing. Instead of letting her be free to make her own decisions, he was so desperate to have her that he would basically imprison her in his palace and sacrifice her future lives, just like his dad did to Yale.

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13 hours ago, Diaroadic said:

@skibbies S1 ended about halfway through the novel/story it's based on. The second half of the novel follows FZ and Gu Nanyi's  adventures and brings FZ and NY back together again - a great story-line for S2 imo.

The novel also had Zhiwei as protagonist and vastly different characterisations. There's lots of reasons why Ning Yi is the focus, Chen Kun is the star of the show for one, and they were very insistent on grabbing him for it. I'm happy that it was well received amongst those who liked it and the production company likely recouped its cost. That said, it's hardly a commercial success.

 

The other arc has a kid who's vital to the plot that appears in Minhai but she never showed up, and tbh that was an arc that felt little unnecessary, but it was handy way for Zhiwei to gain power, and then she restored her kingdom. Tiansheng was split in half because Ning Yi let her have swift victory (tbf she could have done it on her own, it'd just lot more bloody), that's not going to fly with SARFT. 

 

The production team had pretty clear ambitions, they wanted to fuse court intrigue with complex characterisation, and splash of romance. Would an adventure story be cool? Yeah. Do I think the same team will make one? No. They really don't feel like it (and I'm not sure if they can make it good tbh). Could it still happen? I guess, with a different cast and team. However it'd likely bomb, since it's not what the fans expected/liked tRoP for, and people who normally would like adventure story wouldn't watch a sequel. Unless you have very little to do with first story AND you are so good at adventure story that it overshadows the other new and unexplored IP with actors who have bigger fandoms.

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@storyofthestone I think Ning Yi was getting desperate after mum died and Xin Ziyan parted ways with him. He was little possessive and being an Emperor doesn't help, even if he doesn't use the position to do anything, the fact he holds power over Zhiwei unbalance their relationship.

 

As for the last part of the show, there's fair bit of Ning Yi doom to the lonely and bloody road of being an emperor, because that's how it has been in history. I think the comparison between the two pairs was exaggerated, but if Zhiwei stayed, even if she could became an Empress, she'd be trapped in the palace, probably have to share her husband and can't actively participate in court, and that would breed resentment. I think for the bed scene, he was angry that she was using their relationship to bargain for these strangers' lives, he didn't expect her to agree to sleeping with him for that. For Zhiwei, it's like she said, "now I have an excuse to do what I want" + extrapolating from the book, sleeping with him is quoting from the books "paying back what they had", like culmination AND closure to their relationship. 

 

Ning Shizheng didn't want his son to fight to death over the throne, I don't think any father do, but it seems to happen fairly often when it's royal family. Would Ning Yi's kids do so? Maybe, one can only hope it's lot less bloody than this one. Even with a competent crown prince, one have to give enough chance for him to practice and learn, but at the same time, not too much power that he might just overthrow you. If there's other competent prince, one have to spread the power and balance the court (what Ning Shizheng tried), it's not exactly easy.

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1 hour ago, 000sadface000 said:

I just finished it and I can't stop crying literally can someone please tell me what the novel ending was? Cause I can't deal with this one.

I sympathize with you. I felt the same way too. You can read bits of the novel ending translated in English from ninjareflection.com . The YouTube behind the scenes also helped.  After rewatching it a few times, it starts getting less painful.  I recently was finally able to move on to some of Ninis other movies, although none were as good.

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On 12/28/2018 at 1:00 AM, troptina said:

I sympathize with you. I felt the same way too. You can read bits of the novel ending translated in English from ninjareflection.com . The YouTube behind the scenes also helped.  After rewatching it a few times, it starts getting less painful.  I recently was finally able to move on to some of Ninis other movies, although none were as good.

I agree, in RotP  Nini really shines, her comedic as well as dramatic  talents are wonderful, hard to follow up. ChenKun, what can I say? ... I watched 2 complete viewings because I couldn't  focus on anything but their pairing.

On 12/21/2018 at 9:57 AM, Diaroadic said:

@skibbies S1 ended about halfway through the novel/story it's based on. The second half of the novel follows FZ and Gu Nanyi's  adventures and brings FZ and NY back together again - a great story-line for S2 imo.

 

I can certainly  envision a second season. There are loads of threads to pull. 

I have no problem with the show deviating from the book, and many times the show is better than the source. Example: Game of Thrones, I found the show a huge improvement over the books. (Reading them was like getting unmedicated dental  work) whole storylines, characters, settings were chucked into the dustbin with good result. 

 

MTS on second season: 

FengZhiwei  is smiling way too much for a suicide. The ever loyal and vigilant  Gu Nanyi  uses his wuxia powers to save her but she is injured. He takes her to a secret location where she recuperats under his doctoring, but there is some memory loss. Oh and she is pregnant but the details escape her.

 

NingYi  soldiers on as emporor,  heartbroken without her love and estute council. Remaining celibate  despite several romantic closecalls. All the while grooming NingJi to eventually replace him so he can roam the empire trying to satisfy the question " where is her body??"

Please feel free to add on, I love a challenge to put creativity to use over the holiday. All passionate and talented members here could probably build a killer storyline!!!

 

Ps I watched Balzac and the Little Chinese Seamstress, I thought it a lovely film,very well done. Going to try Painted Skin.

 

 

 

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JMO dramas very rarely come with HEA endings. RotP is described as historical, drama,romance and I think it fulfills that promise. In most episodes the viewer has to invest actual brain cells to follow the delicate power plays involved in the plot, quoedos for not throwing in gratuitous  sex and violence to fill empty storytime, while retaining the elements of of a deep devoted love.

Unlike the Game of Thrones showrunners who are criminal for inserting useless, shocking, garbage to entertain the audience while they try to come up with ways to make visual sense out of  the as yet unfinished  novels. The actual plot of GoTs is simplistic and predictable.

We take issue with the poor editing in the push to finish RotP, and our frustration with the lack of the HEA. GoTs  has had 5 years of episodes and now the writers think they can wrap in 6 installments. Just have to say...they better be spectacular episodes, and there better be a HEA, if any characters survive to provide it,lol.  ( sorry for the rant, I watched a lot of GoThrones  over the week )

 

Back to RotP,  in the bedroom scene I would have liked the scene to have started out the same including the push, but have had it transition to unbridled  passion as FengZhiwei pulls out all the stops finally expressing her unconditional love freeing NingYi  to do the same. Lol, Morning after guilt has her running for the cliff. 

 

14 hours ago, skibbies said:

Watch the first 50? or 55, depending how depressing you want to get. They are okay stopping points I think.

 

Haha You have got to be determined to jump feet first and see it to the end, because after all the sharper the knife the less it hurts.

 

Ps  has anyone seen Tuo Shen, if so, where?

 

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On 12/31/2018 at 1:24 PM, whisper1 said:

I agree, in RotP  Nini really shines, her comedic as well as dramatic  talents are wonderful, hard to follow up. ChenKun, what can I say? ... I watched 2 complete viewings because I couldn't  focus on anything but their pairing.

 

I can certainly  envision a second season. There are loads of threads to pull. 

I have no problem with the show deviating from the book, and many times the show is better than the source. Example: Game of Thrones, I found the show a huge improvement over the books. (Reading them was like getting unmedicated dental  work) whole storylines, characters, settings were chucked into the dustbin with good result. 

 

MTS on second season: 

FengZhiwei  is smiling way too much for a suicide. The ever loyal and vigilant  Gu Nanyi  uses his wuxia powers to save her but she is injured. He takes her to a secret location where she recuperats under his doctoring, but there is some memory loss. Oh and she is pregnant but the details escape her.

 

NingYi  soldiers on as emporor,  heartbroken without her love and estute council. Remaining celibate  despite several romantic closecalls. All the while grooming NingJi to eventually replace him so he can roam the empire trying to satisfy the question " where is her body??"

Please feel free to add on, I love a challenge to put creativity to use over the holiday. All passionate and talented members here could probably build a killer storyline!!!

 

Ps I watched Balzac and the Little Chinese Seamstress, I thought it a lovely film,very well done. Going to try Painted Skin.

 

 

 

The last episode of S1 promised that Gu Nanyi would save or find FZ and I see them traveling together for a while, maybe via Minhai and reuniting  old friends on the way. I didn't see anything to make me  think FZ and NY slept together in the harem, though, like you, I wish they had. It felt to me that they talked through their anger and reconnected with their love. When they parted, FZ's last little smile made me feel she already had plans that did not include NY.

 

NY will throw himself into bringing order to the empire and I'd like him to have some love in his life. Maybe he'll marry Yao Yanci?  I like her for him; she's smart and courageous. But I imagine she wouldn't like court life, or maybe there will be some harem drama - though that's hard to imagine given NY's principles - and they will divorce. He'll eventually abdicate, Ning Ji will become emperor and NY will go off in search of FZ.

 

I watched Painted Skin 2, which was fun and gorgeous to look at - much better than Mulan.

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On 1/1/2019 at 8:57 PM, whisper1 said:

JMO dramas very rarely come with HEA endings. RotP is described as historical, drama,romance and I think it fulfills that promise. In most episodes the viewer has to invest actual brain cells to follow the delicate power plays involved in the plot, quoedos for not throwing in gratuitous  sex and violence to fill empty storytime, while retaining the elements of of a deep devoted love.

Unlike the Game of Thrones showrunners who are criminal for inserting useless, shocking, garbage to entertain the audience while they try to come up with ways to make visual sense out of  the as yet unfinished  novels. The actual plot of GoTs is simplistic and predictable.

We take issue with the poor editing in the push to finish RotP, and our frustration with the lack of the HEA. GoTs  has had 5 years of episodes and now the writers think they can wrap in 6 installments. Just have to say...they better be spectacular episodes, and there better be a HEA, if any characters survive to provide it,lol.  ( sorry for the rant, I watched a lot of GoThrones  over the week )

 

Back to RotP,  in the bedroom scene I would have liked the scene to have started out the same including the push, but have had it transition to unbridled  passion as FengZhiwei pulls out all the stops finally expressing her unconditional love freeing NingYi  to do the same. Lol, Morning after guilt has her running for the cliff. 

 

 

Haha You have got to be determined to jump feet first and see it to the end, because after all the sharper the knife the less it hurts.

 

Ps  has anyone seen Tuo Shen, if so, where?

 

RoTP is stronger that GoT in just about every respect I care about. The only character I feel for in GoT is Arya, whereas I find so many of the major and minor characters in RoTP compelling, because their acting is so strong. My guess is that the final season of GoT will be heavy on spectacle, with end-of-the-world type of face-offs between the Night King's evil hordes and Jon Snow and Daenerys's alliance. I'm not counting on a HEA...

 

There are also so many more interesting plot lines in RoTP that would be good to see developed and resolved in a second season. Is Chief Gu the father of Gu Nanyi'? If so, what is GN's story and how will they find each other? What will FZ learn about her father Emperor Ai, her birth mother and her family inheritance and what impact will that have on her sense of self and her ambivalence about NY? Will she recognize and accept that Qui Mingyi was complicated and a murderer?  Did Hua Qiong (?) survive her wound and  will she and FZ be reunited and have an adventure together? And of course, FZ and NY must find their way back to each other and get married.

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On 1/3/2019 at 7:41 AM, Diaroadic said:

There are also so many more interesting plot lines in RoTP that would be good to see developed and resolved in a second season. Is Chief Gu the father of Gu Nanyi'? If so, what is GN's story and how will they find each other? What will FZ learn about her father Emperor Ai, her birth mother and her family inheritance and what impact will that have on her sense of self and her ambivalence about NY? Will she recognize and accept that Qui Mingyi was complicated and a murderer?  Did Hua Qiong (?) survive her wound and  will she and FZ be reunited and have an adventure together? And of course, FZ and NY must find their way back to each other and get married.

 

On 1/1/2019 at 5:57 PM, whisper1 said:

Back to RotP,  in the bedroom scene I would have liked the scene to have started out the same including the push, but have had it transition to unbridled  passion as FengZhiwei pulls out all the stops finally expressing her unconditional love freeing NingYi  to do the same. Lol, Morning after guilt has her running for the cliff. 

 

How fun to dream about a possible S2!  I like the idea of developing the story of Emperor Ai and FZW's birth mother.  I also really like the idea of her becoming pregnant!

 

My take on S2 would be something like this:

- Cliff Scene and Wanderers: GNY saves her at the cliff scene. They spend the next 5 years with new identities, traveling around the country and exploring.  She raises the baby (it's a boy!) with GNY's help.  At one point they stayed at Minhai with the remaining DaCheng subjects for some time, and there she learned more about Ai Emperor and her birth mom.  Ai Emperor was a corrupt emperor and her mom was the daughter of an official.  She doesn't feel as bad anymore about DaCheng being overthrown. With Yan Huai Shi's help, the DaCheng subjects live a decent life, so no one wants a rebirth of Da Cheng.

-Ruling the Nation: Meanwhile, NY continues being Emperor.  For the next 5 years, he focuses on uniting TianSheng with Jinshi (after HLZ's death).  Also, the DaYue crown prince was really happy about Prince An's death and they continue to increase their trade between the two countries.  Secretly, NY is also scheming to take over DaYue.  In those 5 years, NY was "forced" to marry a few consort (including Yao Yangci) and have a few sons/daughters, but didn't have an empress. 

-Family Life: 5 years into NY's reign, his emperor dad finally dies.  Unbeknownst to NY, the ShuangSheng Gu didn't completely become undone before by GuGu, so NY is in grave condition too.  The country goes into 28d mourning for his improved health.  During this time, FZW travels to DaYue to see Jiarong to understand what might have happened.  It turns out one of the key ingredients to break the spell was missing.  So FZW, GNY, and Jiarong travel back to to Tiansheng to bring the missing ingredient and fully break the spell.

-Reunited: When FZW returned, NY asked her to stay with him and help run the country in disguise, even if she couldn't officially be his Empress.  She says she can't do that, but they can be together if he leaves his Emperor position.  When she introduces him to their son, he breaks down crying and decides that he will abdicate the throne to NJ.  Officially, the people think NY dies, but really he runs off with FZW and their son for a few years.

-Jinshi Revolt: They live as wanderers peacefully for a number of years until Jinshi plots a revolt against NJ.  By this time HeLian Tu  (who was was exiled from Jinshi along with the Queen Dowager) is 18 and wants to take back Jinshi.  FZW feels responsible for the death of HLZ and goes back with NY to secretly talk with NJ.  By this time, NJ is older and was misguided by his advisors, and no longer cares about the opinions of FZW/NY.  NY's own sons (now teenagers) start fighting each other for the throne as well. 

-NY Reinstated: NY feels compelled to go back to ruling the nation to "remove all evil" like NJ, and to rehabilitate his sons to the good side.  FZW (remembering her oath) remains a common person and continues to raise her son like a commoner.  Her son resents FZW because he wants to be a prince too, and she's conflicted of whether to allow him to live in the palace with his dad.  NY tries to negotiate with HeLianTu to end the revolt, but instead HeLianTu and his troops plan an attack on NY.  FZW comes out of hiding to appeal to the former Queen Dowager, with which she previously had established a close relationship.  Together, they all agree to a compromise in which part of Jinshi is returned to HeLianTu.

 

Would love to get more suggestions or subplot ideas!

 

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