[Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] The Rise of Phoenixes 凰权·弈天下

[niniandkun]

14 hours ago, storyofthestone said:

Am I just expecting too much logic from the scriptwriters who wrote this angry grieving lashing out Zhiwei? This is all overwhelmingly frustrating and painful to watch.

From here on...you'll be shaking your head a lot more

 

You've nailed all the points many had expressed on here. I'm glad someone else feels the exact same way about that underwater kiss. From the trailer I expected something real sizzling but when it happened I wasn't enthused either.
 

Puyuan arc was pretty rushed. Even I'm not 100% sure about the exact progression of events because of the editing and incomplete flashbacks to explain the gaps. Maybe someone else can explain it??

I just tried to understand it loosely without dwelling on the details.

She is drugged (we know she took the first dose without realizing when she was testing 'medicine' for Hua Qiong). NY and FZW suspect something is wrong when she faints. NY hands over acupuncture needles saying he's not sure his plan is foolproof but he'll get her out of there no matter what (seen in flashback). Then she loses her memory along with mixing up her impression of NY and projecting the good stuff on Jin Siyu and bad stuff on NY. NY tries to awake her with his flute/ocarina to no avail the first time. Second time during the wedding she gets it back but continues pretending. Then the place is flooded.

We have to guess the back story from this.

 

It's sad that zhiwei expressed those things to Jin Si yu and not to Ning Yi but it wouldn't have mattered if they could've made up. By make up I don't mean fully get back together (because of the vow) but atleast understand each other again and respect the love they have for each other. A true intimate scene before parting....I think we deserved that, heart wrenching as it may be.

I think NY saying he feels 'guilty' is because he's bad at expressing his feelings for her. While everyone around him caught wind of his feelings for FZW early on he himself was in denial. He slowly comes out of it but its only when he suffers that plague does the extent of it really hit him. He is so vulnerable there. I think its a defensive mechanism when he goes back to not openly expressing his love for her.

 

As for why it was necessary for the story (drugging), I think there was a similar theme in the novel (so that's where the inspiration is from) but did they really have to make it like this?? Ah....idk. This show created such an impression on me. So I really wanted the suffering and journey of the characters I cared about to be paid off in an idealistic way. But at the least the story could have unfolded in a more coherent manner towards the end. Even with 70 episodes it feels too short. Someone remarked earlier that this plane needed a few more episodes for a smooth landing or something to that effect (they said it better) and I agree.

 

6 hours ago, storyofthestone said:

I miss their nose nuzzling and even their wrist biting days

AHHH YESS PLEASE...the wrist biting...lool its the first time I've seen something like that but loved it.

 

22 hours ago, Pollen Ainne said:

Yes! I would say characterization is really the driving force of this show.

Yep. The plot/premise is good and the scheming is decent. But its the myriad of intriguing lifelike characters that make you stay.

[Pollen Ainne]

10 hours ago, storyofthestone said:

Just finished 63 and I am all out of emotional reserves. I must be a masochist. My eyelids are raw and my chest hurts. I am going to Italy in a couple days and I am not going to watch the rest until I get home so this show doesn't ruin my vacation. It still kinda might. All I want to do is talk about this show. Apologies if I am incoherent or way too intense, I literally just finished five minutes ago.

I was already prepared for the heart-wrenching last 20 episodes (yes it is that many!) before I saw it too (I was too impatient and watched the raws) but it didn't stop me from being insanely angry at the world and wanting to bang my head on the wall when I saw it again. Usually at that point when I find out about depressing last episodes (if you can even call 20 episodes last) I would quit watching because I can truly say I am no masochist, I hate depressing stories! I even spoil last episodes or read last chapters in books to make sure I don't regret starting one... But the characters were clawing at me, I could not let them go... and so I hurt myself. lol! The problem was I was more angry than sad... 

 

10 hours ago, storyofthestone said:

Ning Yi telling Zhi Wei they had missed their chance to be together?

I think it would be a spoiler to tell you. But I tell you, be prepared to want to throw more shoes at your screen. At this point, Ning Yi has lost confidence and will degenerate into a pile of dust! There is no salvation from this point forward.

 

10 hours ago, storyofthestone said:

And when he was talking to Jin Siyu (hated that dude so much) while drugged he said that he was rescuing Zhiwei out of guilt. GUILT. Not love? It just doesn't sound like him.

Actually he was half lying. He did feel guilty so he settled on that half truth. He was of course talking to Jin Siyu so he would not express his full feelings to him, despite his state. I would have been more surprised if he told Jin Siyu that he loved Feng Zhiwei. Ning Yi would not expose himself like that to the enemy. But I think whatever he took made it hard for him to lie so he settled on half truths. It's pretty confusing what it was that he actually took... I'm pretty sure he wasn't just drunk because he did take an antidote... I dunno...

 

10 hours ago, storyofthestone said:

That terrible terrible scene when she told Ning Yi he was a bad man and then remembered all those bits and pieces from their beautiful times together while NOSE NUZZLING and crying in the arms of Jin Siyu!?? It made me feel a little nauseous. It felt like such a violation of Zhiwei. Such intimate words and actions pulled out of her in front of this gross rapey villain. When she started weeping with joy because she thought she had married the one she loved, I wanted to throw my computer across the room.

Haha! I actually had a milder reaction. I felt grieved that Ning Yi wasn't able to hear her confession as Zhiwei has not really confessed the depths of her feelings in front of Ning Yi. But at the same time I am grateful that we the audience managed to see it. This was the only time that Zhiwei let her walls crash down and really proclaim how she felt. And I am glad at this insight to her inner most feelings. It was heart-wrenching! Too bad she confessed it to another man... ~sigh

 

5 hours ago, niniandkun said:

It's sad that zhiwei expressed those things to Jin Si yu and not to Ning Yi but it wouldn't have mattered if they could've made up. By make up I don't mean fully get back together (because of the vow) but atleast understand each other again and respect the love they have for each other. A true intimate scene before parting....I think we deserved that, heart wrenching as it may be.

Yes it mattered to me T_T I don't care if they don't get together, at least show me of how much they want to be together instead of the misunderstandings and more misunderstandings... I want to just see them care and protect each other even if they can't be together... ugh!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[sonosong]

3 hours ago, Pollen Ainne said:

But at the same time I am grateful that we the audience managed to see it. This was the only time that Zhiwei let her walls crash down and really proclaim how she felt. And I am glad at this insight to her inner most feelings. It was heart-wrenching! Too bad she confessed it to another man... ~sigh

I know we've talked about this before, but I just remembered something. Didn't she explicitly admit her feelings to Hua Qiong before her marriage to Helian Zheng? I thought she basically said, "To hell with the world, I only want him!" (Well, not in those words exactly, but you get the point.)

 

21 hours ago, storyofthestone said:

I just watched episode 58 and I don't understand why Zhiwei seemed to accuse Ning Yi of abandoning her in her worst moments. I mean, he tried... Did she not know that he basically threatened his father with a revolt to try to get them out of there alive, thereby putting himself on the emperor's no-longer-to-be-trusted list? 

Was this before she left as a bride to Jinshi? If so, it was understandable. When he was sick in Minhai, she was able to send him letters and let him know she was there for him. Was there no way for Ning Yi to get his feelings across to her? Why the silence? 

[Pollen Ainne]

7 hours ago, sonosong said:

Was this before she left as a bride to Jinshi? If so, it was understandable. When he was sick in Minhai, she was able to send him letters and let him know she was there for him. Was there no way for Ning Yi to get his feelings across to her? Why the silence? 

True true. But she didn't break down. She was still reigning herself in.. The desperation that she showed when she confessed to Jin Siyu was just so different.

 

7 hours ago, sonosong said:

Was this before she left as a bride to Jinshi? If so, it was understandable. When he was sick in Minhai, she was able to send him letters and let him know she was there for him. Was there no way for Ning Yi to get his feelings across to her? Why the silence? 

This was the accusation she said to Ning Yi when he told her that moving on is different from giving up. And I do understand she was grieving. But I think the reason for the silence was because he was grieving too. After all, Ning Yi did go to her to share in her grief but instead she made a vow to never marry him. Then he still went to the burial and told her he would always be waiting. And she told him they can only be together after death. I think the guy needed a break. lol 

 

Although all Zhiwei's irrationality is nothing compared to Ning Yi's later on... saying that now she is Queen of Jinshi... like what... so? Ugh! Whatever.

[skibbies]

On 11/27/2018 at 9:36 AM, storyofthestone said:

Did she not know that he basically threatened his father with a revolt to try to get them out of there alive, thereby putting himself on the emperor's no-longer-to-be-trusted list? 

That's the thing, she didn't know because he would never tell her. That's the kind of guy he is, he do things but never say it. Under better circumstances, yknow if she didn't just find out her life was a lie, her brother have been set up to die in place of her, her family actually died and she has to give up love and ambition and agree to marry a friend just to stay alive, she probably would be able to figure out what he might have done, but it was not a good time. I'm not huge fan of that dialogue because Helian Zheng wasn't the only one around, and the only way that makes him comparable is because he's a love interest, but it's just uncharacteristic for this drama to throw out that line, I think it might have been better if she just asked him where he was, and why wasn't he there for her at her worst, without naming names.

 

@niniandkun I think you got the gist of how the potion worked. It's true the novel have something similar, though there was no truth potion and the arc in the novel was...just very different. It made more sense than in the drama though because it had far more time (they were there for better half of a year if not close to a year). It + Jinshi made up a "book" (out of four in total. The drama's initial 50 episodes draw from the first two "book", and the last one is another country + her reviving her kingdom).

 

On 11/27/2018 at 5:42 PM, storyofthestone said:

Why was it necessary for the story that she actually be drugged?

 

I didn't even really enjoy their underwater kiss. It felt unearned at that point.

I think it's for her to actually say how she feels. It's the only scene where you see how in love she is, and how much she's been holding herself in. She's been super logical for first half of the drama and in 50s, she just starts breaking down, spiraling further and further. She wouldn't have confessed if she wasn't drugged basically. It also show how far she's willing to go for Ning Yi (she trusted he would get her out, and she would risk putting herself in risk as long as she can keep their memories). Oh, and another place to hammer in that there's a lot going inbetween their romance, she's actually super torn about all the terrible association and what not but she still loves him. So basically, it's just to break everyone's heart.

 

They had better kisses in behind the scenes! I don't really count the one in drama as a kiss tbh, it felt more like "oh you are out of air, let me give you some air" which is as unromantic as it gets.

 

3 hours ago, Pollen Ainne said:

After all, Ning Yi did go to her to share in her grief but instead she made a vow to never marry him. Then he still went to the burial and told her he would always be waiting. And she told him they can only be together after death. I think the guy needed a break. lol 

To be fair to her, both her mother and brother just died because of his dad, it's not his fault (or the emperor's fault, honestly), but darn I wouldn't want to see his face either. Especially since she took it onto herself that they died, she didn't listen to her mum to not get involved with Ning Yi and she dies. She's punishing herself as much as punishing him. About "they can only be together after death", it basically points out it's not that she doesn't love him, but her identity won't let them be together. 

 

Fun trivia I should mention before I forget, AGAIN. C!net mentioned the way Ning Yi paid respects during Mama Qiu's burial is for parents. He's a prince and he treated her mum like a parent. 

[sonosong]

4 hours ago, skibbies said:

They had better kisses in behind the scenes! I don't really count the one in drama as a kiss tbh, it felt more like "oh you are out of air, let me give you some air" which is as unromantic as it gets.

LOL – you guys! I thought the underwater kiss was beautiful and poetic. I guess I’m alone. Only in private can they be just two people in love. For me, the kiss wasn’t supposed to be sizzling with chemistry but a reaffirmation of their love. The way they caressed each other’s faces was full of tenderness and affection.

 

Also, even though she associated bad memories with him when she was under the influence of the azalea powder, I loved how she ran so happily, almost like a child, toward the sound of the instrument he was playing. 

 

8 hours ago, Pollen Ainne said:

This was the accusation she said to Ning Yi when he told her that moving on is different from giving up. And I do understand she was grieving. But I think the reason for the silence was because he was grieving too. After all, Ning Yi did go to her to share in her grief but instead she made a vow to never marry him. Then he still went to the burial and told her he would always be waiting. And she told him they can only be together after death. I think the guy needed a break. lol 

Oops, thanks for reminding me. I've been watching A LOT of Chen Kun's other dramas recently, so I've been forgetting more of TRoP lately. That's good because I'll be prepared for another rewatch soon. 

[Pollen Ainne]

7 hours ago, skibbies said:

That's the thing, she didn't know because he would never tell her. That's the kind of guy he is, he do things but never say it.

I think she found out though... because Zhiwei did tell the Emperor in the last episode that the only reason he let her leave was because Ning Yi threatened him. Unless she didn't find out til later... but I dunno. I think Zhiwei is smart and she pieced all the information together. There was a reason Ning Yi was there when he wasn't summoned... Zhiwei knew he was there. After everything Ning Yi did to save her life before, I am sure she just pieced everything together herself.

 

7 hours ago, skibbies said:

So basically, it's just to break everyone's heart.

T_T It sure broke mine. Zhiwei is a really amazing strong character. Even when she cries, she still feels really strong. When she stated she just wanted Ning Yi even if the world burns, she said it with strength. Even when she was desperate to save Ning Yi and even used her body as a test for the drug, she was strong and resolute. When she wanted to see Ning Yi when he was sick and her eyes were tearing up, the order in her voice was still commanding. Even after her mother's death, she just cried without throwing a fit, and then she put on a strong facade later. She is awesome. One of the best female characters. It was important to see the weak side of her. The girl who was just in love, instead of the strong woman who was always a fighter. 

 

7 hours ago, skibbies said:

To be fair to her, both her mother and brother just died because of his dad, it's not his fault (or the emperor's fault, honestly), but darn I wouldn't want to see his face either. Especially since she took it onto herself that they died, she didn't listen to her mum to not get involved with Ning Yi and she dies. She's punishing herself as much as punishing him. About "they can only be together after death", it basically points out it's not that she doesn't love him, but her identity won't let them be together. 

Oh no, I am not blaming her at all. I am just trying to understand Ning Yi's grief as well. I totally understood her feelings at that point when she pushed Ning Yi away. She was definitely punishing herself. Tbh, I think I would have been much weaker and be angrier at Ning Yi at that point, blameless as he is. But such is grief. However, even in her grief she did only swear to never marry Ning Yi in this lifetime. She didn't commit her entire existence. So she definitely still hoped to be together with Ning Yi in another life. That's how much she loved him. I am just saying that Ning Yi must be sad as well and I think Zhiwei after seeing him at the bridge and then again in the carriage must have already reconciled that point... the accusation just came too late for me. 

 

7 hours ago, skibbies said:

Fun trivia I should mention before I forget, AGAIN. C!net mentioned the way Ning Yi paid respects during Mama Qiu's burial is for parents. He's a prince and he treated her mum like a parent. 

Oh my! That just sounds so romantic. But I already found his gesture so sweet despite not knowing that. I mean who the hck is Qui Mingying to him? She was just a rebel and brought them grief. But she was also Zhiwei's mother and at that moment he can only see that. I love Ning Yi. And I love Zhiwei. They deserved to be together. I am gonna cry again!

 

3 hours ago, sonosong said:

LOL – you guys! I thought the underwater kiss was beautiful and poetic. I guess I’m alone. Only in private can they be just two people in love. For me, the kiss wasn’t supposed to be sizzling with chemistry but a reaffirmation of their love. The way they caressed each other’s faces was full of tenderness and affection.

Actually I left the kiss convo alone because although I did find it sweet, the context was kinda... ehh... so I was torn. The feeling of how they got there was really weird, especially after what happens afterwards. However, since I have a clip of it, seeing it by itself is just so beautiful. I love how Ning Yi smiled at her before touching his lips to hers and I love how she touched his face. It wasn't a passionate kiss but it wasn't just a smack either. It was like a touch of gentleness and love. And then the next scene he rebuffs her... terrible context.

 

 

[sonosong]

3 minutes ago, Pollen Ainne said:

It wasn't a passionate kiss but it wasn't just a smack either. It was like a touch of gentleness and love. And then the next scene he rebuffs her... terrible context.

Yes, I think the editing robbed me of my former joy. (Sadistic writers!) Did he do this because he now knew his mother was alive and he would be returning to basically give up everything and just wanted her to be happy in Jinshi? I never really did understand why he turned her down there.

 

[Pollen Ainne]

12 minutes ago, sonosong said:

Yes, I think the editing robbed me of my former joy. (Sadistic writers!) Did he do this because he now knew his mother was alive and he would be returning to basically give up everything and just wanted her to be happy in Jinshi? I never really did understand why he turned her down there.

 

Well, that was what I understood. He was planning to give up his position so he lost confidence in his ability to protect Zhiwei as he will no longer have power. He thought Zhiwei would be safer in Jinshi and thus happier too.

 

What drama of Chen Kun are you watching right now btw?

[whisper1]

3 hours ago, Pollen Ainne said:

Well, that was what I understood. He was planning to give up his position so he lost confidence in his ability to protect Zhiwei as he will no longer have power. He thought Zhiwei would be safer in Jinshi and thus happier too.

 

What drama of Chen Kun are you watching right now btw?

I agree that her safety was his goal. Perhaps his safety was part of her goal at the end, especially after the Emperor  laid out their prospects.

I want to snap the writer's  pencils just like that hair ornament for many of their decisions. Including snapping the ....blows steam!

I'm  curious to see CK in something else, but I  can't  let go of NingYi. Would love to see more of that character, sigh..

[sonosong]

3 hours ago, Pollen Ainne said:

What drama of Chen Kun are you watching right now btw?

 

Umm, I'm embarrassed to say this, but Chen Kun fans on instagram have sent me down a rabbit hole of obsession.

 

I just finished C’est La Vie Mon Cheri/Endless Love (2008), and absolutely LOVED his character and his unwavering devotion to Ah Min (Fiona Sit's character) and Ah Min's entire family. Actually, I loved all the characters in this drama, even his ex, Tracy. They did dub over his voice, but whoever it was that dubbed over him in Madarin was really, really good, as in top seiyuu level good. I'm so in love with whoever dubbed his voice haha. (But I know you don't like dubbed dramas.)

 

My enjoyment level for this drama is on par with TRoP, except this gave me good vibes at the end despite a not-so-happy ending. Derek Yee directed the 1993 film, and he directed this drama as well, and I'm glad he chose to remake it because the movie left me wanting in the romance department. I'm just sad it's not fully subbed in English. I got by after Ep 6 with my limited Mandarin and a lot of guessing.  

 

Now I'm onto Lost in 1949 (2018). It's more of a spy comedy than espionage/thriller, but sold itself as a serious drama, which threw me off a bit. If you're looking for great acting, this wouldn't be the right drama. I think it's just supposed to be fun to watch. Chen Kun's Qiao Zhi Cai and Wan Qian's Huang Liwen are cute together.

 

And my boxsets from Japan finally arrived for Love Story in Shanghai (his first tv drama), Farewell, Vancouver (2003), and The Conquest (2006). Going to be watching those soon too! 
 

[tendrilsofwind]

12 hours ago, skibbies said:

Fun trivia I should mention before I forget, AGAIN. C!net mentioned the way Ning Yi paid respects during Mama Qiu's burial is for parents. He's a prince and he treated her mum like a parent. 

 

That's such an amazing detail. I love it when other people pick up on things like this and share it.

 

5 hours ago, sonosong said:

Yes, I think the editing robbed me of my former joy. (Sadistic writers!) Did he do this because he now knew his mother was alive and he would be returning to basically give up everything and just wanted her to be happy in Jinshi? I never really did understand why he turned her down there.

 

 

I don't think Ning Yi knows what a healthy relationship looks like. He loves his mother like an eight year old boy--with an insatiable hunger for contact, all petulant tantrums and reckless behavior. Throughout the show, he craves intimacy, but also draws away at its unfamiliarity. The only thing he seems certain of is his mother's unconditional love for him. I can't think of a logical reason for him rejecting Zhiwei either, but NY is never logical when it comes to matters of the heart. I guess that's what happens when you start repressing your emotions at birth. Even in Minhai, he never let her plot with him. He always felt the urge to protect her, even after she learned to protect herself, even when it involved decisions he had no right to make. I don't want to say this applies to all men, but a lot of men, especially those who believe themselves to be brilliant, truly think they always know better. 

 

On 11/27/2018 at 4:42 AM, storyofthestone said:

 

Just finished 63 and I am all out of emotional reserves. I must be a masochist. My eyelids are raw and my chest hurts. I am going to Italy in a couple days and I am not going to watch the rest until I get home so this show doesn't ruin my vacation. It still kinda might. All I want to do is talk about this show. Apologies if I am incoherent or way too intense, I literally just finished five minutes ago.

 

Is your username a reference to Dream of the Red Chamber? You should be used to anguish and misery then haha that show messed me up when I watched it as a child. 

 

For those of you devastated by the ending, just keep in mind no one in Chinese drama history has ever died after jumping off a cliff. The statistics are on our side. 

[alittlemei]

I watched the series 3 times now, usually distracted haha. So glad it’s on Netflix and their acting are so on point! I love the early episodes when things are happier between NY and FZW

 

[Spoiler Alert]

 

I thought it’s funny that Ningyi aged overnight after becoming an emperor. Haha. I wish he kept his normal look after becoming the emperor. 

 

Does Gu Nanyi likes Feng Zhiwei? I can’t tell if he likes her or just treat her like a sister.

 

And Price Helian is most annoying character. Not smart, not handsome, stick like glue to someone who doesn’t like him. He needs to move on.

 

Maybe I missed it, but did Xin Ziyan took the role of Deputy PM? 

[alittlemei]

Why would the mum forbid FZW to marry NY? The reason is because he caused the death of her husband, but actually it’s the crown prince. I don’t really get why she pin the blame on NY instead. 

[skibbies]

18 hours ago, Pollen Ainne said:

I think she found out though... because Zhiwei did tell the Emperor in the last episode that the only reason he let her leave was because Ning Yi threatened him. Unless she didn't find out til later...

 

However, since I have a clip of it, seeing it by itself is just so beautiful. I love how Ning Yi smiled at her before touching his lips to hers and I love how she touched his face. It wasn't a passionate kiss but it wasn't just a smack either. It was like a touch of gentleness and love. And then the next scene he rebuffs her... terrible context.

OMG I forgot about that. orz I think it's relatively easy to figure out Ning Yi did something, bringing an army to threaten an Emperor isn't really what most people would do. I think Zhiwei could figure out, just not sure if she had enough headspace to do so before leaving for Jinshi. I wonder how long was it between Qiu Mingying's death and that conversation mhmmm. Anyways, she was definitely leaning heavy on emotional and irrational there.

 

Yeah! That's the one I was talking about! I liked that kiss.

 

18 hours ago, sonosong said:

Yes, I think the editing robbed me of my former joy. (Sadistic writers!) Did he do this because he now knew his mother was alive and he would be returning to basically give up everything and just wanted her to be happy in Jinshi? I never really did understand why he turned her down there.

I think he deemed it too dangerous to go back with her. It's very uncertain how Emperor would react to his decision and he didn't want to drag her down? That's also what frustrates me the most about Ning Yi too. Zhiwei wants to face hard times with him, even if it's potentially dangerous, she wants to be an equal but he wants to protect her.

 

9 hours ago, alittlemei said:

Does Gu Nanyi likes Feng Zhiwei? I can’t tell if he likes her or just treat her like a sister.

 

Maybe I missed it, but did Xin Ziyan took the role of Deputy PM? 

He's family to her. 

 

No, Ziyan willingly took punishment for the murders, because laws > him. Even if he didn't, he would have left, he's far too proud to stay after Ning Yi said he just wants power, when he just wanted him to focus on the goal.

 

5 hours ago, alittlemei said:

Why would the mum forbid FZW to marry NY? The reason is because he caused the death of her husband, but actually it’s the crown prince. I don’t really get why she pin the blame on NY instead. 

No one knows what happened that night, he was there and I think she deemed it enough to blame him. In her mind, he could have help caused the death or stood by and did nothing to stop it. I'm pretty sure she hates the Ning family, Zhiwei would be marrying into the family that murdered her "dad", so this is age old star crossed lovers set up.

[Pollen Ainne]

13 hours ago, sonosong said:

 I'm just sad it's not fully subbed in English. I got by after Ep 6 with my limited Mandarin and a lot of guessing.  

 

Now I'm onto Lost in 1949 (2018). It's more of a spy comedy than espionage/thriller, but sold itself as a serious drama, which threw me off a bit. If you're looking for great acting, this wouldn't be the right drama. I think it's just supposed to be fun to watch. Chen Kun's Qiao Zhi Cai and Wan Qian's Huang Liwen are cute together.

I don't have any Mandarin knowledge at all T_T

 

And I saw Lost in 1949 but could not finish the last few eps because I was starting to throw my shoes at the monitor. The girl just frustrated me so much. I hate one-sided love stories.

 

11 hours ago, tendrilsofwind said:

Even in Minhai, he never let her plot with him. He always felt the urge to protect her, even after she learned to protect herself, even when it involved decisions he had no right to make. I don't want to say this applies to all men, but a lot of men, especially those who believe themselves to be brilliant, truly think they always know better. 

Actually, I think Ning Yi gave Zhiwei credit more than any Tiansheng man ever could... it's just that, in the end Tiansheng wasn't Jinshi. Zhiwei came up with the plan about deceiving Zhongyi which Ning Yi obediently followed. Also followed her advice to light the flare. Sent her to the Yan family to conduct investigation. Believed that she already had a plan to handle Zhongxin and agreed to her plans. Told the head of the guards in Minhai (???) to consult with Zhiwei instead of him. Left her in charge of finding a cure. He allowed Zhiwei to do her job.

 

In fact, before her gender came out to the public, Ning Yi was willing to let her go alone to Minhai. Not once did Ning Yi treat her like a woman tbh, unless he was flirting with her. However, his protectiveness always came first, since of course, he was in love with her and I don't think Ning Yi has ever been in love before. But then I think had Zhiwei been in the same situation she might have done the same thing too. Anyway, for a person who lived in a very patriarchal society, it amazes me how Ning Yi allows Zhiwei to run around at all.

[niniandkun]

21 hours ago, sonosong said:

On 11/28/2018 at 5:31 PM, skibbies said:

They had better kisses in behind the scenes! I don't really count the one in drama as a kiss tbh, it felt more like "oh you are out of air, let me give you some air" which is as unromantic as it gets.

LOL – you guys! I thought the underwater kiss was beautiful and poetic. I guess I’m alone. Only in private can they be just two people in love. For me, the kiss wasn’t supposed to be sizzling with chemistry but a reaffirmation of their love. The way they caressed each other’s faces was full of tenderness and affection.

I don't think you're alone. Think most had a lukewarm reaction while mine is on the colder end of the spectrum. The way I saw it, they don't normally kiss. That's the first and only one we've seen and it was wasted on that moment, that situation. Any other physical interaction could've been taken as a tender moment between those two maybe their clothes get tangled together underwater and they help each other while pausing for a stare, or some other embrace or face grabbing, hand holding or even smiling warmly. (this OTP can inject meaning into any scene if they wanted to). That doesn't sound like much but considering how much they'd drifted apart after Zhi Wei's mom died this would have been plenty to chew on.

A kiss for me is more direct, more charged...more sensual. Atleast it ought to be, between this couple especially. They aren't casual huggers or peckers.

 

The BTS was really beautiful. Even the vibe was different. This scene needed more quiet and calm before showing. The atmosphere of the flood doesn't work at all, its too urgent and adrenaline packed. And this wasn't a fierce you know what lets just go for it since we're about to die anyway kiss.  Not to mention as viewers we're still scratching our heads in shock of the flood like wtf where did that come from? Was it planned by NY?  Did Hua Qiong just die for good?? Who else in gonna die now?? Oh look NingYi is trying to save ZhiWei from drowning...and then...oh hey you know what lets just chill out here underwater and make out for a bit while everyone else is drowning and fighting for survival. It just didn't work for me, especially when I first watched it.

 

On 11/28/2018 at 5:31 PM, skibbies said:

It made more sense than in the drama though because it had far more time (they were there for better half of a year if not close to a year). It + Jinshi made up a "book" (out of four in total. The drama's initial 50 episodes draw from the first two "book", and the last one is another country + her reviving her kingdom).

One whole book for Jinshi? damn. And they were trapped in Dayue for nearly a year? No wonder the years racked up in the Novel. Also makes their stay more dire and claustrophobic.

Speaking of the difference in years, drama zhi wei calls it quits when shes just 20..21? more harsh.

 

12 hours ago, tendrilsofwind said:

For those of you devastated by the ending, just keep in mind no one in Chinese drama history has ever died after jumping off a cliff. The statistics are on our side. 

Woah really?? That does make me feel better. Is it just a Wuxia thing tho? I just finished watching a show called Bloody Romance. I didn't take it too seriously just started seeing casually because of its opening theme (so pretty) and somehow stuck till the end. Anyway I found it hilarious when everyone was flying around like superman on this show but only during the fight scenes or when they have to get away from danger. Does the anti gravity not work in other situations? LOOL..

 

I think someone described tRop as wuxia too but I didn't find the sequences that absurd. It didn't stand out to me even though its the first time I'm seeing this sort of flying martial arts.

 

On 11/28/2018 at 5:31 PM, skibbies said:

Fun trivia I should mention before I forget, AGAIN. C!net mentioned the way Ning Yi paid respects during Mama Qiu's burial is for parents. He's a prince and he treated her mum like a parent. 

Oh that is so sweet. I didn't know it as fact but this is apparent from those scenes. He really acted like a son-in-law there.

 

12 hours ago, tendrilsofwind said:

I don't think Ning Yi knows what a healthy relationship looks like. He loves his mother like an eight year old boy--with an insatiable hunger for contact, all petulant tantrums and reckless behavior. Throughout the show, he craves intimacy, but also draws away at its unfamiliarity. The only thing he seems certain of is his mother's unconditional love for him. I can't think of a logical reason for him rejecting Zhiwei either, but NY is never logical when it comes to matters of the heart. I guess that's what happens when you start repressing your emotions at birth. Even in Minhai, he never let her plot with him. He always felt the urge to protect her, even after she learned to protect herself, even when it involved decisions he had no right to make. I don't want to say this applies to all men, but a lot of men, especially those who believe themselves to be brilliant, truly think they always know better. 

Out of topic, but its always a joy seeing your perspective on here. If you ever start a review blog/vlog anything I'd follow for sure.

Along with this I think he felt really insecure and guilty at that point too. Don't think he got over what Zhi Wei told him when she was drugged.   

Also can we not forget the oath !!

 

[tendrilsofwind]

8 hours ago, Pollen Ainne said:

Actually, I think Ning Yi gave Zhiwei credit more than any Tiansheng man ever could... it's just that, in the end Tiansheng wasn't Jinshi. Zhiwei came up with the plan about deceiving Zhongyi which Ning Yi obediently followed. Also followed her advice to light the flare. Sent her to the Yan family to conduct investigation. Believed that she already had a plan to handle Zhongxin and agreed to her plans. Told the head of the guards in Minhai (???) to consult with Zhiwei instead of him. Left her in charge of finding a cure. He allowed Zhiwei to do her job.

 

In fact, before her gender came out to the public, Ning Yi was willing to let her go alone to Minhai. Not once did Ning Yi treat her like a woman tbh, unless he was flirting with her. However, his protectiveness always came first, since of course, he was in love with her and I don't think Ning Yi has ever been in love before. But then I think had Zhiwei been in the same situation she might have done the same thing too. Anyway, for a person who lived in a very patriarchal society, it amazes me how Ning Yi allows Zhiwei to run around at all.

I agree that NY treated her better than you would expect in a patriarchal society and I don't really think that reflects badly on him since it is human nature to do something like this, but FZW still seemed miffed that he didn't share everything with her (like when he was sick with plague). 

 

7 hours ago, niniandkun said:

Woah really?? That does make me feel better. Is it just a Wuxia thing tho? I just finished watching a show called Bloody Romance. I didn't take it too seriously just started seeing casually because of its opening theme (so pretty) and somehow stuck till the end. Anyway I found it hilarious when everyone was flying around like superman on this show but only during the fight scenes or when they have to get away from danger. Does the anti gravity not work in other situations? LOOL..

 

I think someone described tRop as wuxia too but I didn't find the sequences that absurd. It didn't stand out to me even though its the first time I'm seeing this sort of flying martial arts.

It is kind of a wuxia thing. They always find a secret manual or whatever and emerge more OP than they were before.  Flying takes effort though. It's kind of like how I would never run unless it was urgent lol

 

7 hours ago, niniandkun said:

Out of topic, but its always a joy seeing your perspective on here. If you ever start a review blog/vlog anything I'd follow for sure.

Along with this I think he felt really insecure and guilty at that point too. Don't think he got over what Zhi Wei told him when she was drugged.   

Also can we not forget the oath !!

 

Thank you so much! I enjoy reading everyone's perspectives here as well, even the ones I disagree with, since they are all so well thought out. The oath thing really is important even if the mindset makes no sense to me. People in the past really were all in on that whole consummate loyalty thing, what with this oath and the whole restore the previous dynasty even thought it sucked group.

[whisper1]

8 hours ago, Pollen Ainne said:

I don't have any Mandarin knowledge at all T_T

 

And I saw Lost in 1949 but could not finish the last few eps because I was starting to throw my shoes at the monitor. The girl just frustrated me so much. I hate one-sided love stories.

 

Actually, I think Ning Yi gave Zhiwei credit more than any Tiansheng man ever could... it's just that, in the end Tiansheng wasn't Jinshi. Zhiwei came up with the plan about deceiving Zhongyi which Ning Yi obediently followed. Also followed her advice to light the flare. Sent her to the Yan family to conduct investigation. Believed that she already had a plan to handle Zhongxin and agreed to her plans. Told the head of the guards in Minhai (???) to consult with Zhiwei instead of him. Left her in charge of finding a cure. He allowed Zhiwei to do her job.

 

In fact, before her gender came out to the public, Ning Yi was willing to let her go alone to Minhai. Not once did Ning Yi treat her like a woman tbh, unless he was flirting with her. However, his protectiveness always came first, since of course, he was in love with her and I don't think Ning Yi has ever been in love before. But then I think had Zhiwei been in the same situation she might have done the same thing too. Anyway, for a person who lived in a very patriarchal society, it amazes me how Ning Yi allows Zhiwei to run around at all.

I have zero experience  with Chinese  or any Asian language, but I  have become so accustomed  over my time watching that I've  began to recognize a good handful of words and phrases. So now I'm  ticked off that I'm  missing so much because of imperfect subs, grrr the direct recording is going to be one of my must haves going forward.

 

I agree that Feng Zhiwei had many opportunities to give input and have her opinions taken seriously,  I loved the balance on the ship, intimate then all business, a partnership. I can't  understand the "you never listened, you never asked ... " jmo bs and it smacked of the predictable  female complaint aimed at men pushed into the script.

 

Mama Qui funeral was heartbreaking on so many levels. Mama is on my villain  list because of the oath,but beyond that her lies. Even her last request to Zone was a lie. She asked him to promise to let FW decide for herself while in reality Mama had already locked in FWs fate with her own inability to disengage from the past. Her self sacrifice a study in selfishness, considering she was willing to take FW with her and did take FH rather than disavow the former empire and Bloody Pagoda. Zone is on my bad list too. His exploitation of GuNanyi is something I  can't  forgive. 

 

The underwater kiss was lovely. I would have loved it more if he dragged her to the surface and really planted one, lol. 

 

This pairing of leads would be perfect in a Chinese retelling of Jane Eyre. Chen Kun a wonderful flawed Rochester to Nini as the feisty Jane. A girl can dream.

[sonosong]

9 hours ago, niniandkun said:

The way I saw it, they don't normally kiss. That's the first and only one we've seen and it was wasted on that moment, that situation. Any other physical interaction could've been taken as a tender moment between those two maybe their clothes get tangled together underwater and they help each other while pausing for a stare, or some other embrace or face grabbing, hand holding or even smiling warmly. (this OTP can inject meaning into any scene if they wanted to). That doesn't sound like much but considering how much they'd drifted apart after Zhi Wei's mom died this would have been plenty to chew on.

A kiss for me is more direct, more charged...more sensual. Atleast it ought to be, between this couple especially. They aren't casual huggers or peckers.

Desperate times calls for desperate measures? Haha. No, I get what you're saying. They did drift apart after she renewed her oath, and I agree this kiss isn't meant to be a sweet moment like the Face Nuzzling in the Dark Room or The Wrist Bite or the Minhai Cave. Personally, that underwater scene and the kiss felt bittersweet, especially the way Zhiwei was desperately pressing her lips against Ning Yi's. Even the moment of silence except for the gurgling of the water and then the music playing sounded hauntingly melancholic. It just seemed like they had this one moment and this moment only, but once they reach the surface, they'd go back to pretending to be strangers again. Well, in any case, it was more sad than anything else. But my takeaway from it is that she may have sworn an oath not to marry him in this lifetime, but that sure as hell doesn't stop her from loving him and vice versa. That's why it was a beautifully melancholic, non-sensual kiss for me. Although I'd rather have the writers never let them drift apart emotionally and give us the ending this couple DESERVED.

 

10 hours ago, Pollen Ainne said:

In fact, before her gender came out to the public, Ning Yi was willing to let her go alone to Minhai. Not once did Ning Yi treat her like a woman tbh, unless he was flirting with her. However, his protectiveness always came first, since of course, he was in love with her and I don't think Ning Yi has ever been in love before. But then I think had Zhiwei been in the same situation she might have done the same thing too. Anyway, for a person who lived in a very patriarchal society, it amazes me how Ning Yi allows Zhiwei to run around at all.

I totally agree that he did this out of love. Even I - female human that I am - want to protect the people I love. But he really needed to share things with her in order for their relationship to be truly equal. Without confiding in her, he wasn't putting enough trust in her to help him with his problems. I don't see him as patriarchal, but rather stubborn. I do see that he values her opinion, that he knows he can't control her, that he realizes she can take care of herself, BUT at least tell her what you're planning to do and why. Girl may be smart, but she's not perfect. He can't always expect her to read in-between the lines all the time.