[Drama 2016-2017] Golden Pouch 황금주머니, Mon-Frid 20:55. Thanks for all your support!

[jayakris]

2 hours ago, shebagirl said:

NS joined the Yoon household much later after fake was taken in. JR befriended Ns during the time they came to collect faker at the bench.

Do you know roughly which episode revealed this, by any chance?  Ep. 10 showed the faker at the bench, grandma finding him, and NS watching. But where was it revealed that JR befriended NS there itself, or that NS went to the Yoons "much later" (meaning, after getting pregnant and having the baby and giving her up. About 15-18 months minimum)? I have no memory of any indication of that in any conversation -- but I may have missed it, which is why I am asking.

I am only trying to figure out if there is any chance that SH was born after the faker was taken to the Yoons.

[cheekychipmunk_stv]

5 hours ago, jayakris said:

A couple of things I no longer remember properly from earlier episodes -

1) Did we ever figure out what the "R" engraved on the ring that SH had from her mother?  The name of the dad, who NS said was dead (?), maybe?

2) Whatever happened to that missing (or is he actually dead?) brother that Geum sisters had?  They talked about him a lot in early episodes.  Was it just to confuse us and keep us from guessing who Dr. Han was, or did that brother have any relevance in the story line. Not much mention of him anymore...

Anybody knows?

 

No clue about the R engraved on the ring that NS left for SW. But she did tell Papa Geum that the babu father died in an accident before she was born. Not sure if NS & SW father got married or were just fiance & fiancee. She abandon SW at doorstep of orphanage because she couldn't afford medical care/operations that SW needed.

Geum family son Han Dol was very sick like SW. He died because the family couldn't afford the medicall treatments he needed. So when they got SW, papa & mama Geum was determined to cure her and not let her die like their son.

[cheekychipmunk_stv]

19 minutes ago, jayakris said:

Do you know roughly which episode revealed this, by any chance?  Ep. 10 showed the faker at the bench, grandma finding him, and NS watching. But where was it revealed that JR befriended NS there itself, or that NS went to the Yoons "much later" (meaning, after getting pregnant and having the baby and giving her up. About 15-18 months minimum)? I have no memory of any indication of that in any conversation -- but I may have missed it, which is why I am asking.

I am only trying to figure out if there is any chance that SH was born after the faker was taken to the Yoons.

 

I'm very sure NS left SW at orphanage way before she went to live with JJ & Dr Han. If JJ knows she has SW, JJ wouldn't let NS abandon SW at orphanage. JJ will definitely help NS to come up with $$ to cure SW. JJ is like papa Geum.

[shebagirl]

2 hours ago, cheekychipmunk_stv said:

I'm very sure NS left SW at orphanage way before she went to live with JJ & Dr Han. If JJ knows she has SW, JJ wouldn't let NS abandon SW at orphanage. JJ will definitely help NS to come up with $$ to cure SW. JJ is like papa Geum.

Yes, I agree that Seolhwa was left way before the fire at Namwon. Her name means 'winter flower' ...? Papa Geum gave that name to her, so I assumed it must be a good 6 months before the fire. Her attire too was not refined, so she seemed not with money, when she left her at the orphanage. Only after getting acquainted with JR, presumably he helped her to get a start in life, that she dressed well to be seen as a presentable person, good enough to be JR's wife. JJ had not a desired background .... ooooo snooty....! 

 

[shebagirl]

@jayakris As mentioned earlier, Seolhwa was born before the fire. There are some flashback when Papa Geum followed NS and saw her leaving the baby at the orphanage. 

As for the part of JR relationship with NS, it was always spoken by grandma as a narration. However there was this part when NS was looking at the photo of his three friends in the orphanage, and she was in one of her unsure moods that she asked JR wthether he had ever thought of JJ and sort of feel regret. He replied that he made a mistake to let her (JJ) go, but NS need not worry and he was grateful that she was willing to take care of fake JS too as her son.  There was one instant, JR told fake JS that he felt bad for allowing his mother to leave them, he was very fond of her. He implied that he met and married NS after he found fake JS. He had never forgotten his love for JJ. This was at the office around the time when fake wanted to marry Seolhwa. From all these, it seem to show that NS came later, after the fire. Remember he was to bring home JS and JJ five days from that flashback of DrHan. So JR was still in love with JJ then, and he must have convinced Mdm Eun to accept JJ now that he found out about the son Joon Sang. 

[angelwingssf]

3 hours ago, shebagirl said:

@jayakris As mentioned earlier, Seolhwa was born before the fire. There are some backflash when Papa Geum followed NS and saw her leaving the baby at the orphanage. 

As for the part of JR relationship with NS, it was always spoken by grandma as a narration. However there was this part when NS was looking at the photo of his three friends in the orphanage, and she was in one of her unsure moods that she asked JR wthether he had ever thought of JJ and sort of feel regret. He replied that he made a mistake to let her (JJ) go, but NS need not worry and he was grateful that she was willing to take care of fake JS too as her son.  There was one instant, JR told fake JS that he felt bad for allowing his mother to leave them, he was very fond of her. He implied that he met and married NS after he found fake JS. He had never forgotten his love for JJ. This was at the office around the time when fake wanted to marry Seolhwa. From all these, it seem to show that NS came later, after the fire. Remember he was to bring home JS and JJ five days from that flashback of DrHan. So JR was still in love with JJ then, and he must have convinced Mdm Eun to accept JJ now that he found out about the son Joon Sang. 

 

@shebagirl - I think SH was born before the fire happened.   Wasn't there an age difference of 6 years between Faker and SH.  Grandma happens to mention the age difference when Faker brings SH to meet her.  She also gets the horoscope matching done with the Faker not knowing that the Faker is a Fake.  Also, the astrologer tells Grandma Eun that the grandchild was always in transit and has gone through a lot of difficulties in life.  She chalked that up to the difficulties he had till 6.  She will be blown away when she finds out about the faker and how the astrologer was right and why JJ was crying in the dreams that she had.

Someone mentioned that MH has asked a detective to find out about Faker.  That was true, but MH has confirmation that Faker is a Fake and she has seen the DNA test done with the Faker's toothbrush.  So, I highly doubt that is what it is.  I think it might be JR.  I hope it is.  I want JR to find out that Dr. Han is his child.  

Since Dr. Han is pretty methodical in all his actions and the writer has projected that very well, I want him to not burden himself heavily for finding out his family and let Papa Geum know about it and the information snowball out.  I want Dr. Han to find more about his mother and her name and where they have her ashes and I want him to go visit it and get some peace.  With all this switcheroo, I would not be surprised, if the writer brings out JJ back as to how she survived the fire and how she was looking for her son or got amnesia and so on.  JR then divorces NS and marries JJ and throws the Faker on the fire; Takes in Dr. Han and get him married to SH.  NS is out on the streets, but with a small alimony and lives the rest of life in a temple repenting for what she did.  If NS did not bring Faker to the Yoons and Grandma found him by herself, and NS knowing this did not let her know, I would think omission of facts is still a crime, but can be forgiven;  May be that is what will happen.  I hope they will not drag this punishments to the end.  Many people need to be punished in this drama and it would be good to start that now - Faker first ;  

I see there is a difference between international and other countries regarding registration of their children at birth.  I was born at home and most of the legal stuff in my country needed the 10th grade transcript as the birth certificate.  I had to go to the court to get a legal one only when I moved to the States.  For schooling purposes, everything is taken verbally and so, YJS (Orig) might have been admitted to school in that manner.  But I think in the US, the minute you have the child, it is registered and you are not even allowed to leave the hospital without your child and  mother's maiden name is on the birth certificate of the child.  I so liked that because, I always tell my kids what I had to go through to bring them into this world.  The writer probably might not have done a lot of research with ages , birth, fire and what caused it or the unnecessary characters.

 

 

[jayakris]

3 hours ago, shebagirl said:

@jayakris As mentioned earlier, Seolhwa was born before the fire. There are some backflash when Papa Geum followed NS and saw her leaving the baby at the orphanage. 

As for the part of JR relationship with NS, it was always spoken by grandma as a narration. However there was this part when NS was looking at the photo of his three friends in the orphanage, and she was in one of her unsure moods that she asked JR wthether he had ever thought of JJ and sort of feel regret. He replied that he made a mistake to let her (JJ) go, but NS need not worry and he was grateful that she was willing to take care of fake JS too as her son.  There was one instant, JR told fake JS that he felt bad for allowing his mother to leave them, he was very fond of her. He implied that he met and married NS after he found fake JS. He had never forgotten his love for JJ. This was at the office around the time when fake wanted to marry Seolhwa. From all these, it seem to show that NS came later, after the fire. Remember he was to bring home JS and JJ five days from that flashback of DrHan. So JR was still in love with JJ then, and he must have convinced Mdm Eun to accept JJ now that he found out about the son Joon Sang. 

@shebagirl, thanks!  That is exactly how I had it in mind, on what we saw over the various episodes (mostly hinted from Grandma's words and the flashback in Ep.10).  I asked the question on when NS moved in and when  because I wondered if I missed something, as @ira2a seemed to suggest a different version, that SH was conceived later, after the fire, rather than born before that (like, probably 6 to 9 months earlier, in line with what you said above).

6 hours ago, cheekychipmunk_stv said:

I'm very sure NS left SW at orphanage way before she went to live with JJ & Dr Han. If JJ knows she has SW, JJ wouldn't let NS abandon SW at orphanage. JJ will definitely help NS to come up with $$ to cure SW. JJ is like papa Geum.

@cheekychipmunk_stv, thanks.  Yes,that is what I think too.  Looks like we are all in agreement.

6 hours ago, cheekychipmunk_stv said:

No clue about the R engraved on the ring that NS left for SW. But she did tell Papa Geum that the baby father died in an accident before she was born. Not sure if NS & SW father got married or were just fiance & fiancee. She abandon SW at doorstep of orphanage because she couldn't afford medical care/operations that SW needed.

Geum family son Han Dol was very sick like SW. He died because the family couldn't afford the medicall treatments he needed. So when they got SW, papa & mama Geum was determined to cure her and not let her die like their son.

Thanks.  Odd that the drama made a big deal about that engraved "R" then,  Maybe they had some possible story in mind but decided to drop it later.  Good point on Han Deol's death having an impact on the Geum's decision to look after SH and not let her die too.

[jayakris]

12 minutes ago, angelwingssf said:

Wasn't there an age difference of 6 years between Faker and SH.  Grandma happens to mention the age difference when Faker brings SH to meet her.  She also gets the horoscope matching done with the Faker not knowing that the Faker is a Fake.  Also, the astrologer tells Grandma Eun that the grandchild was always in transit and has gone through a lot of difficulties in life.  She chalked that up to the difficulties he had till 6.  

Ah, I think that is where we heard the "6 year" thing.  I was trying to remember where it was that we heard of the age difference between JS/ShinWoo and SH.  But, unless Faker was about 6.5 when he was taken, the age difference is probably closer to 5, as SH was born about 6 or so months before that.

[nrlfan4ever]

I do not know if this will muddy the timeline, but Seol Hwa's actual date of birth is uncertain. What she uses is Han Dol's birthday, mentioned by Mama Geum in one of the episodes. She said that they decided to give her that because SHf came to them as if to replace the son they've lost due to illness. On the other hand, Sae Na said she and Seol Hwa were born on the same year but SN had to be registered a year later. This was when Ji Sang said she's being rude to SHf by calling her sister by her full name all the time. She gave the flimsy excuse that she didn't like SHf much, that she lost part of her life due to late registration because registering her on the same year as Seol Hwa will raise too many questions. They are not twins and it's not possible for Mama Geum to give birth to another child a few months after the first one.

In the case of Dr. Han...his date of birth is being used by faker and that is what the astrologer matched with Seol Hwa. I think faker is a bit older than Dr. Han (maybe by a few months).

[ira2a]

22 hours ago, jayakris said:

Yes there was no baby around with SN, when all that happened.  But that doesn't mean that the baby was born after the Faker was taken to the Yoons.  It was because NS had already abandoned the baby before her stay with JJ and the fire.  You probably took it wrong, when you thought the baby was born later, @ira2a, maybe?

I am judging strictly from the math. When JS came to first visit Geum family mama Geum asked about his age to see how much older he is then SH. If his answer was 4 years, then yes, she was born  and abandoned before the fire. If his answer was 6 years, then...it's probably anyone's guess.  In any case SN was not pregnant when the grandma came to take the boy, that was clear from the camera shot.  I am beginning to think that we are trying to sort those actually small details while the authors are portraying everything in quite broad strokes. So a lot gets flushed out through their strainer. 

 

[jayakris]

29 minutes ago, ira2a said:

 I am beginning to think that we are trying to sort those actually small details while the authors are portraying everything in quite broad strokes. So a lot gets flushed out through their strainer.

Haha. Probably we are getting into small details, as we are not getting the daily episodes to discuss.  The damn election!

I don't know if it matters exactly when SH was born, unless it becomes an issue for JR in how much (if at all) he will punish SN for the deception. If she kept away a daughter story from a couple of years before he even knew her, he may feel less deceived about it and may forgive her on that... But he will anyway be pretty mad about being fooled about the faker, though NS may wiggle out of even that by saying she didn't have the heart to break the family's heart after seeing how much they loved the boy they got.  And JR and his mom might also realize that NS did try to prevent the faker from becoming the family heir, even irritating them about it - and they may cut her some slack.  Eventually though, I think neither NS nor the faker will get much punishment from the family. I guess they will be asked to leave the family but not go to jail or become really poor or anything.

[sk0317]

4 hours ago, nrlfan4ever said:

I do not know if this will muddy the timeline, but Seol Hwa's actual date of birth is uncertain. What she uses is Han Dol's birthday, mentioned by Mama Geum in one of the episodes. She said that they decided to give her that because SHf came to them as if to replace the son they've lost due to illness. On the other hand, Sae Na said she and Seol Hwa were born on the same year but SN had to be registered a year later. This was when Ji Sang said she's being rude to SHf by calling her sister by her full name all the time. She gave the flimsy excuse that she didn't like SHf much, that she lost part of her life due to late registration because registering her on the same year as Seol Hwa will raise too many questions. They are not twins and it's not possible for Mama Geum to give birth to another child a few months after the first one.

In the case of Dr. Han...his date of birth is being used by faker and that is what the astrologer matched with Seol Hwa. I think faker is a bit older than Dr. Han (maybe by a few months).

Credit: MBC

The late Geum Han Dol was born on December 9 (please see clip above - starts at 1:21). @nrlfan4ever is spot on as SH puts down her DOB (please refer to clip below - starts at 0:06) as December 9, 1989 (1989.12.09) when Madam Eun asked her about her birthday.

The real YJS was born on March 31, 1983 (1983.03.31). (please see clip below - starts at 0:06).

Credit: MBC

SH's age is listed as 29 (starts at 0:07) in SN's resume:

Credit: MBC

 

@jayakris

As for the initial "R" on the ruby ring, one possibility could be the ring was a hand down from either NS's GM or mother.

Or it could be (one of) the initial(s) of the man NS was supposed to marry. Unfortunately, he died before he could marry NS.

[jayakris]

12 minutes ago, sk0317 said:

The late Geum Han Dol was born on December 9 (please see clip above - starts at 1:21). @nrlfan4ever is spot on as SH puts down her DOB (please refer to clip below - starts at 0:06) as December 9, 1989 (1989.12.09) when Madam Eun asked her about her birthday.

The real YJS was born on March 31, 1983 (1983.03.31). (please see clip below - starts at 0:06).

Thanks @sk0317. That, along with the age for SH in SN's resume (the number 29 stayed in my mind actually) pretty much establishes that SH was born some time before the fire and the boy-switching.  SN was born sometime in 88, a few months ahead of the fire which was probably in 89.

[shebagirl]

@jayakris When papa Geum took the baby Seolhwa , she must have been already 3-5 months old, and judging from the clothes they were wearing, it could have been in the early summer/ late spring that NS placed the baby at the orphanage. As for the fire, it must have happened that same year maybe in the early autumn, or late summer. This timeline has not much bearing on the OTP, but more to establish the fact that NS did not abandon the baby just so she could get to stay in the Yoon household. She was genuinely not with money to pay for Seolhwa's medical treatment. The lies she created were about her background, that she had a fictitious family and was having a career before being accepted as the wife of JR. Also she was acquainted with JJ and had met Joon Sang. She will be held to account only for knowing about fake JS being fake, and allowing him to be so for nearly 30 years ...!!   'Lies begets lies' .... as you speculate, she will not be easily thrown out, she can say that she didn't want to disappoint grandma since she was seen to like fake a lot. So the 'desperate' woman whom fake JS wants to protect, the 'family' as he said, will not stand by him once the truth is revealed ...... I bet.  

[jayakris]

47 minutes ago, shebagirl said:

This timeline has not much bearing on the OTP, but more to establish the fact that NS did not abandon the baby just so she could get to stay in the Yoon household. She was genuinely not with money to pay for Seolhwa's medical treatment.

Yes, that is an important point.  I had always assumed (ever since seeing the note she left at the orphanage) that she had abandoned the baby only because she was out of options and she knew that the baby would otherwise die. Some friends here seemed to think that she had done it selfishly, but I never got that feeling.  Even the boy-switch was probably the faker's idea, seeing that curious look (surprise?) on her face in that Ep.10 scene, when the Grandma found the faker and he was looking at her like "please don't rat on me".

[takanome89]

Sad series. Dr. Han knows the truth, but can not come home and hug his father and grandmother  

 

In the preview, MH blackmails again. If he tells the truth, then SH finds out who her real mother is

[angelwingssf]

Watched the raw ; very emotional episode.  Saw Dr. Han confront the Faker (IMHO - he does not even deserve a name) at the Han river.  He does get some more information about how his mother died and how she asks him to give the pouch to her son.   Later we see Dr. Han at the Yoon house hold and Dr. Han debating whether to go in or not and finally decides not to go in.  He goes to work and there is a flashback to him seeing his mom make Dumplings and singing the song.  He is tearing up and JR walks in and takes him to have a drink and there is some conversation about JR telling him about JJ and YJS ; Dr. Han is seen walking up to SH and hugs her.  

[shebagirl]

Well, from the flashback of Shin Woo, when he was sitting on the bench clutching the pouch, grandma came and upon seeing the pouch shouted 'Joon Sang' ... He stood still, but NS witness it and she sort of told him to play along with it. Grandma took him to a big house, NS came along with Shin Woo. (I suppose that was the time she met JR. )

The pouch somehow brought forth to DrHan memories of his mother, but as expected it comes with a hefty price. He is still in a state of shock, and certainly when his mind is calm and settled, hope he will do whatever is necessary to claim his rightful family. Meanwhile fake should look for a way out, without hurting anyone. A posting abroad would be a good step, I feel. His relationship with Seolhwa, NS , the Geums and Jisang will need a major readjustment.  

Hmmm... DrHan visited his mother's grave (?) only to bump into grandma on his way out. JR should be suspicious after this.

[ira2a]

1 hour ago, angelwingssf said:

Watched the raw ; very emotional episode.

Yes, I had tears in my eyes. Very emotional.  I had a feeling that the way he hugged SHf  was like a prelude to smth that  might come their way.  He already senses that. 

Glad the episode was up so quickly, within an hour after the original MBC run.

[jayakris]

On 5/1/2017 at 10:25 AM, jayakris said:

On 5/1/2017 at 9:44 AM, sk0317 said:

Speculation here. The faker could have told NS about the significance of the incense pouch later when they found it on JJ after the fire. The faker who was in the same room when Dr. Han had the conversation with JJ, could have told NS about the scheduled meeting 5 days later.

Quite possible. Faker must have taken it from JJ before she died.  She couldn't have died already without the pouch burning with her.  Or maybe she saved the boy and asked him to take the pouch and give it to JS, as her legs got trapped under a fallen beam or something, and the boy couldn't save her.  Something like that is more probable.

Hey, friends, give me some candy for guessing this thing perfectly.  But the drama managed to mess that up slightly.  Come on, if she was going to be trapped, use something that looks like it could trap her.  Some silly light door frame falls on her and she is like, "oh I should die here! Give this pouch to my son".  Yikes, drama!

We saw one extra thing we hadn't seen before (I think).  The faker said to NS that he had lost his memory.  That's when she said "you are JS".  So when did she learn about the pouch, and from whom?  I guess she probably soon saw him erasing his name and writing JS on the sand, and knew he was lying - and then he told her of the pouch and that he would be seeing the family in 4 days; so she didn't have to do anything except maybe inform the Yoons where to look for the boy with a pouch.

One other thing. After MH found the bruised Faker lying on the bed, he told her - "if you want to cut off the rope that is coming apart, go ahead. Get at least the alimony as a rich house daughter-in-law when you can".  She didn't want to.  I am surprised that she isn't taking that option.  I am sure her mom would want her to.