[Drama 2017] My Sassy Girl 엽기적인 그녀

[gerrytan8063]

@lavender2love

The hanbok top (jeogori,저고리) is quilted (you can see the details from the bigger picture that you had posted earlier) is known as Nubi (누비, Korean Quilting technique) which they pad cotton or wool in between cloth to make insulated winter clothings

 

 

[lavender2love]

@gerrytan8063

" The hanbok top (jeogori,저고리) is quilted (you can see the details from the bigger picture that you had posted earlier) is known as Nubi (누비, Korean Quilting technique) which they pad cotton or wool in between cloth to make insulated winter clothings "

Whoa.... your knowledge seems inexhaustible . I had no idea what a nubi is until now. Of course I appreciate Korean things more now because of your info. Thank you for the images and video...... super educational.

Okay .... < ahem , clearing throat >  what I'm gonna to write is not a pervert mind.... genuinely wondering !! Pictures of hanbok after this. If it's too uncomfortable .... just give me a whack on the knuckle ... hehe..

See, before I got into Kdrama, I saw on documentaries women wearing the hanbok and I thought the costumes are not attractive.. you know, like what's with the billowing skirt and clashing colours. Also where's the sex appeal? For example,  the " erotic spots "  ( i read about it, probably written by male writers  ) in Western clothing is the cleavage, ( as in a low cut dress ) the Cheongsam , no cleavage but high slits to the thigh, the sari , the midriff called Choli is sexy I think,  @staygold ??? . As for the Japanese kimono, the nape is considered sexy and the obi .... I read about it. The Indonesian Kebaya  is so shapely and alluring. 

I can't see it in the hanbok . Can you ?

 

 

 

[kittyna]

55 minutes ago, lavender2love said:

Okay .... < ahem , clearing throat >  what I'm gonna to write is not a pervert mind.... genuinely wondering !! Pictures of hanbok after this. If it's too uncomfortable .... just give me a whack on the knuckle ... hehe..

See, before I got into Kdrama, I saw on documentaries women wearing the hanbok and I thought the costumes are not attractive.. you know, like what's with the billowing skirt and clashing colours. Also where's the sex appeal? For example,  the " erotic spots "  ( i read about it, probably written by male writers  ) in Western clothing is the cleavage, ( as in a low cut dress ) the Cheongsam , no cleavage but high slits to the thigh, the sari , the midriff called Choli is sexy I think,  @staygold ??? . As for the Japanese kimono, the nape is considered sexy and the obi .... I read about it. The Indonesian Kebaya  is so shapely and alluring. 

I can't see it in the hanbok . Can you ?

I know I haven't been posting here much, but I have been following the conversation on my own. First of all, shout-out to @gerrytan8063 for being so knowledgeable about...just about everything so far.

As for your question, @lavender2love, I think it's one of those that reveals more about the asker than the subject of the question. What I mean is that it shows how much we take things like "sex appeal," "erotic spots," etc. for granted in fashion, and I wonder if that's a Western (or Westernized) thing. Like you, I don't see anything clearly erotic about the hanbok; I suppose, if we had to try, I would guess at the illusion of wider hips and a smaller waist by contrast (i.e. the same rationale behind the corsets and bell-shaped skirts worn by many Western women in centuries past) as hinting at fertility. However, I also wonder if the hanbok is one of those cases where the allure is in how little is being shown: sort of like how a mask is alluring because you can't see someone's entire face but just, say, their eyes. In my opinion, the hanbok hints at what's underneath, but doesn't draw attention to any one part of the body.

And that's actually what I like about it. I might be Chinese, but I think I would feel far more comfortable and in my own skin wearing a hanbok than a cheongsam. Something as fitting as a cheongsam definitely falls outside of my comfort zone because I feel like it demands a very specific body shape to pull off. The hanbok, which I did try briefly on a trip to Seoul, is a lot more figure-forgiving, and I personally like that it doesn't feel sexy, which isn't an image I necessarily want to convey.

That being said, I know that with Chinese traditional dress, things have become progressively closer-fitting over time. If you compared the Chinese clothing that's actually contemporaneous with the hanboks you see in MSG or any other Joseon-dynasty sageuk, you'd find that things were a lot looser and women's bodies were more concealed. What differs is, as you've said, that Korean hanbok, at least for women, seems to have retained something like the historical silhouette where other cultures have gone for something more overtly alluring.

And here's male dress from Qing Dynasty China as well for comparison.

[gerrytan8063]

@lavender2love

"I can't see it in the hanbok . Can you ?"

You will not find that in a Neo Confucianism society like Joseon where women led a stifle & conservative life in a patriarchal system.

You could at least see in drama that the hanbok look more tailor fit especially around the shoulders rather than the actual one size fits all 

As @kittyna had mentioned in her post it is the same scenario for women in Qing China

Cheongsam is a 1920s creation, meanwhile married women in the Straits Chinese society who still instill Confucianism value wears the "Baju Nyonya Bibik panjang".....what my great grandmother would have worn

The pattern slippers are beaded as women could only spend time at home & are free to do their own shoes

My Mum did beaded shoes when her eyes were better, although she married a Straits Chinese but she herself is not one

[lavender2love]

 

As for your question, @lavender2love, I think it's one of those that reveals more about the asker than the subject of the question. What I mean is that it shows how much we take things like "sex appeal," "erotic spots," etc. for granted in fashion, and I wonder if that's a Western (or Westernized) thing. Like you, I don't see anything clearly erotic about the hanbok; I suppose, if we had to try, I would guess at the illusion of wider hips and a smaller waist by contrast (i.e. the same rationale behind the corsets and bell-shaped skirts worn by many Western women in centuries past) as hinting at fertility. However, I also wonder if the hanbok is one of those cases where the allure is in how little is being shown: sort of like how a mask is alluring because you can't see someone's entire face but just, say, their eyes. In my opinion, the hanbok hints at what's underneath, but doesn't draw attention to any one part of the body.

@kittyna thank you for your input.... interesting !! The Korean put premium to fertility so the illusion of strong healthy hips in big skirts. I post the Japanese kimono of the 1900s . Note the loose back collar and with the hair upswept, reveals a creamy neck to " seduce " .... haha. I forgot the reason for the Obi  ( sash ) The kimino retained their form until now.

Oopsie.... you posted the forth Lord from BBJX.... Nice. !!!

 

 

9 hours ago, gerrytan8063 said:

@lavender2love

"I can't see it in the hanbok . Can you ?"

You will not find that in a Neo Confucianism society like Joseon where women led a stifle & conservative life in a patriarchal system.

You could at least see in drama that the hanbok look more tailor fit especially around the shoulders rather than the actual one size fits all 

As @kittyna had mentioned in her post it is the same scenario for women in Qing China

 

@gerrytan8063 as usual you have the most sensible and best info. You are remarkable with your explanation. Thanks

One of my favourite colour.

This too with the " apron."

 

Quote

Cheongsam is a 1920s creation, meanwhile married women in the Straits Chinese society who still instill Confucianism value wears the "Baju Nyonya Bibik panjang".....what my great grandmother would have worn

 

 @gerrytan8063... WOW.... !! You have such a rich heritage.... traced back to what your great grandmother's distinguished dress. Do you wear traditional costume too ? You posted one of yourself in a Korean King's garb in MBC in one of your travels to Korea. 

Well, You are a fascinating person to have conversation with. Never short of stories or information. Appreciate your time to educate.

That's such a nice picture of three strong and confident women. I notice they carry handkerchiefs and not fans.  Exquisite ornaments too.

Quote

 

The pattern slippers are beaded as women could only spend time at home & are free to do their own shoes

 

My Mum did beaded shoes when her eyes were better, although she married a Straits Chinese but she herself is not one

The beaded slippers you posted are so striking. Simply beautiful. As i have said your mum is an interesting woman, a keen gardening enthusiast and she made these intricate bead patterns ? I can only say amazing. Such precious heirlooms.

Does she watch Kdrama too ?

 

[gerrytan8063]

@lavender2love

"This too with the " apron."

That is not an apron, it is a dangui (당의,唐衣) worn by women from the Royal Household & Staff as well as Official wives when they attend official & ceremonial functions

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dangui

"WOW.... !! You have such a rich heritage.... traced back to what your great grandmother's distinguished dress. Do you wear traditional costume too ?"

I am the 5th generation Malaysian......No....The men don't have the elaborate fashion like the ladies, they are usually just wear a western suit or a batik shirt

You had mentioned the Indonesian kebaya in you earlier post. we also have our version known as Nyonya (Straits Chinese ladies) Kebaya

As you may notice, currently only the older generations are wearing the kebayas. My mother & sister only wore kebaya during the Chinese wedding tea ceremony to denote our heritage for her wedding & younger brother's wedding

"I notice they carry handkerchiefs and not fans.  Exquisite ornaments too."

http://enticz.blogspot.my/2013/09/nyonya-handkerchiefs.html

Sometimes the handkerchief is also use to attract attention by waving it

I personally still carry a men's handkerchief (45x45cm) in my pocket even with the convenience of tissue & wet wipes. But I had yet to hand my handkerchief to a lady to wipe her tears or worst blow her nose in it while she is crying

"Does she watch Kdrama too ?"

No she doesn't....she can't read subtitles fast enough & a language that she doesn't understand

[kittyna]

1 hour ago, lavender2love said:

I post the Japanese kimono of the 1900s . Note the loose back collar and with the hair upswept, reveals a creamy neck to " seduce " .... haha. I forgot the reason for the Obi  ( sash ) The kimino retained their form until now.

Now that I think about it, the kimono's fit probably performs the same function that the hanbok's does, but in different ways. Both cover up a woman's actual bodily shape - the hanbok widens it and the kimono fills in the waistline to create a rectangular shape - but can hint at allure by what little is shown, such as the neck.

I remember someone commenting on the JW thread that the back of the neck is also somewhat exposed in hanbok; it's more apparent in men's styles because women's hairstyles cover the nape of the neck anyway, but it's an interesting parallel that just occurred to me now.

1 hour ago, lavender2love said:

Oopsie.... you posted the forth Lord from BBJX.... Nice. !!!

lol - That was...sort of on purpose? When I was searching up photos to show you what Qing Dynasty men's clothing would look like on the body and not just placed on a museum mannequin, I mostly found either stuff from BBJX or the really cheaply made Halloween costume stuff. So although I'm not entirely sure on the historical accuracy of the costuming in BBJX, I'm more confident about that than the Halloween costumes because at least the production value is closer to the actual.

I do want to say (in desperate attempts to bring this back to MSG) that during the Qing Dynasty, Manchurian and Han clothing styles were slightly different. The women's clothing I posted would be worn by Han women, but the men's clothing shown in the photo from BBJX is like that worn by the Manchurian ruling class (e.g. Prince Dalhan in MSG - see, I can make a connection!). I'm not entirely sure about the dark blue robe in the first men's clothing bit, though; I love learning about historical clothing, but I'm more familiar with Western than Asian fashions.

I would like to find something like what GW might have worn during his three-year stay in Qing, but I need to do some more research to see if I can. I'll share it if I do!

10 hours ago, gerrytan8063 said:

Cheongsam is a 1920s creation, meanwhile married women in the Straits Chinese society who still instill Confucianism value wears the "Baju Nyonya Bibik panjang".....what my great grandmother would have worn

That looks awesome! I've never seen that style of traditional costume before, and I'm really loving this look into Straits Chinese customs. Going off on a tangent, I'm amazed at how Chinese people all around the world each have their own distinct cultures: Chinese from the mainland might do things differently from those in Hong Kong, Macau or Taiwan, but once you include the massive diaspora in Southeast Asia as well...possibilities are endless

@gerrytan8063 Just saw the bit about your mom and K-dramas now. I'm just wondering: are K-dramas dubbed into other languages where you live? (I'm assuming Malaysia from your comments, but please correct me if I'm wrong.) I know that in China, Hong Kong, etc., they're dubbed into Mandarin and Cantonese, and Japan dubs them into Japanese as well. Maybe something like that could be more accessible for her.

[gerrytan8063]

@kittyna

"Just saw the bit about your mom and K-dramas now. I'm just wondering: are K-dramas dubbed into other languages where you live? (I'm assuming Malaysia from your comments, but please correct me if I'm wrong.) I know that in China, Hong Kong, etc., they're dubbed into Mandarin and Cantonese, and Japan dubs them into Japanese as well. Maybe something like that could be more accessible for her."

In Malaysia our Pay TV, if the dramas is screen 24 hours or on the same day, it will retain in its original Korean audio with subtitles, later on the reruns, it will be dubbed to the various languages i.e. Malay & Chinese (Mandarin) but the Hong Kong channels will be dubbed in Cantonese, but the drama will always retain the original audio with the switch of a button

In Japan the KNTV channel retains Korean audio with Japanese subtitles, also with the switch of a button

As for my Mum, she prefer to watch drama that speaking in the original audio, don't like dubbed as the lipsync is always not accurate & it is a bother

I am Malaysian, currently based in Hong Kong, soon to be transfer home & my frequent business travels. I usually only have time to live stream Korean drama RAW then if I am enthusiastic then with subtitles. In the Saimdang thread, we put the subtitles under a microscope on the lost in translation in the Taiwan & Mainland Chinese version, the Malay & Indonesian version, the Cantonese version, the various English version, we even had a Hungarian version & compare to the accuracy to Korean, the debate made pages. We took one sample by random & it was none other that the Korean flower name "패랭이꽃" (Paeraengi Kkot) which have been mentioned in this thread as Dianthus Chinensis or China Pink. 

If you want to read, it is in Saimdang Light Diary on Soompi thread page 69 - 70

[lavender2love]

 

9 hours ago, gerrytan8063 said:

@lavender2love

 

"This too with the " apron."

That is not an apron, it is a dangui (당의,唐衣) worn by women from the Royal Household & Staff as well as Official wives when they attend official & ceremonial functions

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dangui

 

It's nice to learn new things @gerrytan8063.... you're a fine sabu. So I learned that the apron-like piece of cloth is a Dangui. Ooops this dangui is different.

It's a fabulous hanbok.

 

Quote

"WOW.... !! You have such a rich heritage.... traced back to what your great grandmother's distinguished dress. Do you wear traditional costume too ?"

I am the 5th generation Malaysian......No....The men don't have the elaborate fashion like the ladies, they are usually just wear a western suit or a batik shirt

You had mentioned the Indonesian kebaya in you earlier post. we also have our version known as Nyonya (Straits Chinese ladies) Kebaya

 

Gasp .... !!! That's a long lineage until the fifth generation. Me thinks your home will have the portraits of  even great great great great grandmother spanning maybe a hundred years. Really rich in culture and history.

Quote

 

As you may notice, currently only the older generations are wearing the kebayas. My mother & sister only wore kebaya during the Chinese wedding tea ceremony to denote our heritage for her wedding & younger brother's wedding

Spoiler

Wow ..... !!! Is the picture your family clan ? Awesome !!!! They look so special and unique. Omgosh..... the kebayas have such intricate designs . Oh so beautiful. And everyone is wearing beaded shoes. So classy. 

Quote

"I notice they carry handkerchiefs and not fans.  Exquisite ornaments too."

http://enticz.blogspot.my/2013/09/nyonya-handkerchiefs.html

Sometimes the handkerchief is also use to attract attention by waving it

I personally still carry a men's handkerchief (45x45cm) in my pocket even with the convenience of tissue & wet wipes. But I had yet to hand my handkerchief to a lady to wipe her tears or worst blow her nose in it while she is crying

 

Bwahahaha.... " blow her nose in it " ...... but exactly that's what handkerchiefs are for. Or maybe your kerchief is too beautiful like the one in spoiler. I don't own a handkerchief ..... I wear sweat bands or wrist bands during exercise. I think I should pay attention to special handkerchiefs.

 You are very cool gerrytan , to carry one. You're the first guy I know who actually possesses one, but do you blow your own nose into it ? hehe.

Spoiler

 

Quote

"Does she watch Kdrama too ?"

No she doesn't....she can't read subtitles fast enough & a language that she doesn't understand

 

Apart from Kdrama do you watch Kong kong dramas ? ( Just read your reply to kiityna that you're based in Hong Kong.  The Hongkies use to be tops in the entertainment industry but I think the Koreans are ruling the entertainment world now.

@kittyna so nice you're joining in the discussion. @gerrytan8063 is like a whole library right from the beginning he was dishing out information and that enhances drama watching.  He is a good story teller too with a whole repertoire of amusing anecdotes.

[gerrytan8063]

@lavender2love

Dangui with a dragon emblem denotes that she is Princess (Gongju,공주,公主) from Queen Consort. If the Princess is borne by Royal Consort, she is title Ongju (옹주,翁主)

"Gasp .... !!! That's a long lineage until the fifth generation. Me thinks your home will have the portraits of  even great great great great grandmother spanning maybe a hundred years. Really rich in culture and history."

Sadly my father never keep in touch with his relatives, so we only have oral history & when the elders pass on...that is the end of the story. My father did retain the Straits Chinese cuisine at home meals but not the culture

"Wow ..... !!! Is the picture your family clan ? Awesome !!!! They look so special and unique. Omgosh..... the kebayas have such intricate designs . Oh so beautiful. And everyone is wearing beaded shoes. So classy. "

No, just ladies showing off their fashion. Kebaya tops are made from embroidery & crochet cloth known as "sulam". Even the batik in the "sarong" (the bottom) is intricate with patterns

"You're the first guy I know who actually possesses one,"

It is because I am Ajusshi...For nose blowing, I will get a tissue....handkerchief is just part of my daily attire, to wipe my mouth at times or sweat if the weather is too hot.....

"Apart from Kdrama do you watch Kong kong dramas ? ( Just read your reply to kiityna that you're based in Hong Kong.  The Hongkies use to be tops in the entertainment industry but I think the Koreans are ruling the entertainment world now."

Hong Kong was the leader.....yes I watch Hong Kong dramas in the age & the days of the VHS tapes. I have been based in Hong Kong for 9 years.

[lavender2love]

14 hours ago, gerrytan8063 said:

@lavender2love

 

Dangui with a dragon emblem denotes that she is Princess (Gongju,공주,公主) from Queen Consort. If the Princess is borne by Royal Consort, she is title Ongju (옹주,翁主)

 

@gerrytan8063... I enjoy reading your explanation and description. Today I  am late due to a shopping schedule. Also I'm reduced to using an iPad and believe me I keep losing posts. 

Thank you . I see the dragon symbol is on the king's costume too. It looks good on you . 

Quote

"Gasp .... !!! That's a long lineage until the fifth generation. Me thinks your home will have the portraits of  even great great great great grandmother spanning maybe a hundred years. Really rich in culture and history."

Sadly my father never keep in touch with his relatives, so we only have oral history & when the elders pass on...that is the end of the story. My father did retain the Straits Chinese cuisine at home meals but not the culture

 

Nevertheless your heritage is perpetuated in oral history and how interesting your forefathers were. Ahhhhh ... it's wonderful to taste family secret recipes .and you are the sum of all your fascinating experiences. 

------------------------------------------

Wow ..... !!! Is the picture your family clan ? Awesome !!!! They look so special and unique. Omgosh..... the kebayas have such intricate designs . Oh so beautiful. And everyone is wearing beaded shoes. So class

" "No, just ladies showing off their fashion. Kebaya tops are made from embroidery & crochet cloth known as "sulam". Even the batik in the "sarong" (the bottom) is intricate with patterns

They are really artistic and aesthetic. Only rich ladies have the time and leisure to produce such fine work.

-----------------------

"You're the first guy I know who actually possesses one,"

 

It is because I am Ajusshi...For nose blowing, I will get a tissue....handkerchief is just part of my daily attire, to wipe my mouth at times or sweat if the weather is too hot.....

 

You really are versed In the finer aspect of grooming. I mean you retain the tradition of handkerchief and it reflects your fine deep traditional upbringing.

-------------------

"Apart from Kdrama do you watch Kong kong dramas ? ( Just read your reply to kiityna that you're based in Hong Kong.  The Hongkies use to be tops in the entertainment industry but I think the Koreans are ruling the entertainment world now."

Hong Kong was the leader.....yes I watch Hong Kong dramas in the age & the days of the VHS tapes. I have been based in Hong Kong for 9 years.

wow... Nine years. That's a long time . That means you know Hong Kong at the back of your hand. More cuisines, culture and experiences added to your interesting life. 

This post took me a long time to write because it's hard to control the touch screen , that's why the formatting is off ..... Haizzzz. !!! Please excuse the many mistakes. 

Anyway thank you @gerrytan8063for sharing your invaluable knowledge. 

[kittyna]

I'd said before that I would come back to post anything I find on what would have been worn by scholars like GW in Qing Dynasty China.

This is by no means comprehensive, as I'm just starting to look things up, so if anyone wants to add or correct me on anything, please do so.

A couple of key points I came across.

1. The clothing traditionally worn by scholars in China overlapped significantly with what was worn by government officials. Understandable, since only scholars who had passed the civil service examinations would be eligible for government position at all. This included BOTH civilian and military officials (so, yes, you had to be book smart in order to run an army )

2. Chinese clothing underwent some MAJOR changes with the establishment of the Qing dynasty. The reason for this is that the ruling class in Qing was not Han (i.e. the ethnic group we usually think of when we hear "Chinese"), but Manchurian. Because of this, many of the articles of clothing that we consider part of "traditional Chinese dress" today - including things like the cheongsam and Mao jacket - are actually Manchurian in origin.

So, tracing a back a bit to the dynasty immediately preceding the Qing: the Ming dynasty. Chinese clothing at this point in history or earlier is collectively called hanfu. And Ming dynasty government officials wore something like this:

Look familiar? Yep, this is something similar to what our dear GW was shown wearing...IN JOSEON.

It should also be noted that what GW wears as the Prince's tutor also seems to have been inspired by a type of hanfu worn by Chinese scholars of the same period.

One of these, the shenyi, is akin to what you see higher-ranked scholars wearing in "Sungkyunkwan Scandal"

A second garment is called the panling lanshan and looks like a white version of what GW wears when he's working with the little Prince (rather than, say, dealing with the king, when he wears the official's robe):

For comparison, here's our GW again. I know that the blue overcoat (I believe it's called a dopo, but I'm not sure - @gerrytan8063, would you know?) sort of steals the show here. However, that aside, you can see he's wearing something like a panling lanshan underneath - and the hat definitely matches.

But what about during the Qing dynasty?

For me, so far, this is where the trail has gone a bit cold. I can find references to what government ministers would have worn, but not scholars who may not be acting in any official capacity. So, in other words...I'm still a bit stuck on what GW in Qing would have worn, say, during his lecture at the beginning of the show.

However, I can't leave empty-handed, so I will say that I did manage to find out what Qing dynasty government officials would have worn:

The photo's from a historical re-enactment in Beijing; you can see the emperor on the left (don't ask about the makeup on that one - I'm just as clueless as you are!), and his court is shown on the right. There would most likely be an equally large group on the left. As you can see, the clothing style has changed significantly from the hanfu that I have shown. What these men are wearing is called the changshan, and it was ordained by the Manchurian rulers that all government officials should wear it instead of hanfu. Technically, they initially tried to impose the changshan on everyone - as they did with their hairstyle (shaved in front with a long queue down the back) - but failed in the early attempt. However, soon Manchurian style clothing became associated with social prestige (since all the folks in charge were wearing it), so it trickled down to the masses and eventually replaced the hanfu anyway. Fashion works like that, I suppose.

One last fun fact before I go: in both the Ming and Qing dynasty examples shown here, officials of different ranks and positions were identified by the insignia shown on the chest. I'm not entirely sure for the Ming dynasty yet, but for the Qing - birds were for civil officials, and animals were for military officials. So those are all war ministers, generals, etc. you're seeing in this particular photograph - and I imagine that if GW were to wear something like this in attempts to blend in (for all we know, a historically accurate interpretation might have been for him to retain his Joseon attire), he'd have a bird of some sort.

[gerrytan8063]

@kittyna

"I believe it's called a dopo...."

https://hanbokinfo.wordpress.com/2012/05/29/four-robes-for-joseon-gentlemen/

China was the fashion trend setter. Joseon was always Ming then Qing & it took 2 Manchu invasion in Korea for Joseon to "kowtow" (submit) to Qing. The least the Qing didn't force the Koreans to wear their hair in queue like they did with the Chinese & the Koreans maintain their topknot hairstyle

"Chinese clothing underwent some MAJOR changes with the establishment of the Qing dynasty. The reason for this is that the ruling class in Qing was not Han (i.e. the ethnic group we usually think of when we hear "Chinese"), but Manchurian. Because of this, many of the articles of clothing that we consider part of "traditional Chinese dress" today - including things like the cheongsam and Mao jacket - are actually Manchurian in origin."

Qing Dynasty ethnicity is Manchu ( 滿族) formerly known as the Jurchen (女真族 which they are known as the Jianzhou Jurchen -建州女真, there were others but was united under one tribe in 1583) & not Manchurian (Manchuria - 滿洲 was actually a coin word by the Japanese in the 19th century for the Manchu then the reference was use by the Europeans). The Manchu never called their homeland or the land of their origins - Manchuria. The Manchu refer to their region as the Three Eastern Provinces (東三省 consist of the present Heilongjiang, Jilin & Liaoning) & name their capital Mukden (presently Shenyang, Liaoning) when their conquest of China started in 1618 & conquered China in 1644

Those rank insignia are known as Mandarin (official) Square (buzi - 補子 or in Korean is known as Hyungbae - 흉배, 胸背). it is use in Ming Dynasty then adopted by the Joseon Dynasty & later continue into the Qing Dynasty

https://m.blog.naver.com/PostView.nhn?blogId=sollholic&logNo=220743426628&proxyReferer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F

The insignia rank in Joseon Dynasty

[BaiZiHua]

@ lavender2love & @ packmule3

 

I just finished watching this drama 5 mins ago. I'm so happy the both of you told me to watch this drama. I really liked it and thought the ending was great. I loved the fact they tied everything up for us because I really hate loose ends and open endings. I know that you asked me to tell you 3 things I liked about the drama but honestly I couldn't pick just 3 things hahahaha. Because there are so many things I liked about this drama.

I'm so glad I took your advise I liked the pacing of the drama. It wasn't draggy and the drama didn't center too much on politics and makjang concubine stories bwahaha. Anyways, I will name some things that I liked about this drama.

Spoiler

 

1. Ep23 kiss/sorry scene

2. When the princess saw her mom again (I cried it was touching)

3. All of the prince Eun Sung scenes (he was one of my fav characters in this drama)

4. The Pekingese dog (LOve Love <3)

5. The little prince

6. When she said she needed him in ep 31 awwss I cried when she gave her little speech. I only cried twice in this drama and both times were for happy reasons.

7. And lastly the funny writer's proposals hahahahaha " Do you smell something burning?? ............... See, my heart is burning" and "Drink this and you will marry me. Those lines were so cheesy but those two guys are super funny hehe.

 

 

I really hope to see you both somewhere amongst dramaland on soompi. You guys are amazing I appreciate all the kindness from you two during the time I was watching this drama. Have a nice weekend and hopefully we will see each other again on another thread. Bear hugs <3.

 

 

[lavender2love]

@kittyna  Thanks for your interest in the costumes and good job  researching the connect between the Qing and Joseon different kinds of attire. Coupled with @gerrytan8063 earlier inspired information of the dangui, and  the symbolic emblems , I find myself taking a second look at some of the symbols. 

I think I can just make out a bird, hmmnn .... Looks kike an egret similar to the emblem of the Qian official. I'm using the ipad again and I can't enlarge the pictures to see clearly. I'm waiting to go home tomorrow to get to my big screen computer. It's a torture of sorts to use the temperamental touchscreen. 

I Guess the egret has a special meaning too. 

 

 

 

18 hours ago, gerrytan8063 said:

@kittyna

"I believe it's called a dopo...."

https://hanbokinfo.wordpress.com/2012/05/29/four-robes-for-joseon-gentlemen/

China was the fashion trend setter. Joseon was always Ming then Qing & it took 2 Manchu invasion in Korea for Joseon to "kowtow" (submit) to Qing. The least the Qing didn't force the Koreans to wear their hair in queue like they did with the Chinese & the Koreans maintain their topknot hairstyle

"Chinese clothing underwent some MAJOR changes with the establishment of the Qing dynasty. The reason for this is that the ruling class in Qing was not Han (i.e. the ethnic group we usually think of when we hear "Chinese"), but Manchurian. Because of this, many of the articles of clothing that we consider part of "traditional Chinese dress" today - including things like the cheongsam and Mao jacket - are actually Manchurian in origin."

Qing Dynasty ethnicity is Manchu ( 滿族) formerly known as the Jurchen (女真族 which they are known as the Jianzhou Jurchen -建州女真, there were others but was united under one tribe in 1583) & not Manchurian (Manchuria - 滿洲 was actually a coin word by the Japanese in the 19th century for the Manchu then the reference was use by the Europeans). The Manchu never called their homeland or the land of their origins - Manchuria. The Manchu refer to their region as the Three Eastern Provinces (東三省 consist of the present Heilongjiang, Jilin & Liaoning) & name their capital Mukden (presently Shenyang, Liaoning) when their conquest of China started in 1618 & conquered China in 1644

 

 

Quote

 

 

Quote

Those rank insignia are known as Mandarin (official) Square (buzi - 補子 or in Korean is known as Hyungbae - 흉배, 胸背). it is use in Ming Dynasty then adopted by the Joseon Dynasty & later continue into the Qing Dynasty

https://m.blog.naver.com/PostView.nhn?blogId=sollholic&logNo=220743426628&proxyReferer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F

The insignia rank in Joseon Dynasty

 

@gerrytan8063 As usual an interesting piece of information on the historical and symbolic aspects of the Koreans , the Manchurians and the Hans . I like like how good you are at seeing the bigger picture in the background. Most of the time when I watch a historical drama I'm only watching for the story plot and characters but not on the background setting. You have enhanced my viewing . And what's special is you wrote about other cultures especially the last about the Nyonya culture because it's like a living history and you are so part of it. The fact that you still carry a handerkercchief speaks well of your heritage. Thank you. 

I'm still on a shopping holiday... ! Retail therapy? 

[lavender2love]

8 hours ago, BaiZiHua said:

@ lavender2love & @ packmule3

 

I just finished watching this drama 5 mins ago. I'm so happy the both of you told me to watch this drama. I really liked it and thought the ending was great. I loved the fact they tied everything up for us because I really hate loose ends and open endings. I know that you asked me to tell you 3 things I liked about the drama but honestly I couldn't pick just 3 things hahahaha. Because there are so many things I liked about this drama.

• I'm so glad I took your advise I liked the pacing of the drama. It wasn't draggy and the drama didn't center too much on politics and makjang concubine stories bwahaha. Anyways, I will name some things that I liked about this drama.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

1. Ep23 kiss/sorry scene

2. When the princess saw her mom again (I cried it was touching)

3. All of the prince Eun Sung scenes (he was one of my fav characters in this drama)

4. The Pekingese dog (LOve Love <3)

5. The little prince

6. When she said she needed him in ep 31 awwss I cried when she gave her little speech. I only cried twice in this drama and both times were for happy reasons.

7. And lastly the funny writer's proposals hahahahaha " Do you smell something burning?? ............... See, my heart is burning" and "Drink this and you will marry me. Those lines were so cheesy but those two guys are super funny hehe.

 

 

I really hope to see you both somewhere amongst dramaland on soompi. You guys are amazing I appreciate all the kindness from you two during the time I was watching this drama. Have a nice weekend and hopefully we will see each other again on another thread. Bear hugs <3.

 

 

 

@BaiZiHua hugging you back. Thank you for your views. You kept your promise and it's really nice to hear from you.  You wrote about your favourite scenes ..  Squeal ..... !!! I'm having notices of errors and relocating my post . Often times it did tricks so I'll leave a proper response to you later on. @packmule3 is chasing another prince and being involved in a tragic love story revolving round three characters of the Goryeo era. Hope she doesn't forget us here . Tragic love stories are depressing for me. 

Uh oh .... Ipad acting up again. See you around. Do pop in after I read your post properly.

A hug from GY too. 

 

 

[packmule3]

Hahaha, @lavender2love. MSG is still my soothing romcom. I'm at the airport right now, on my way to another Asian city. Another day, another country.

I'm posting in THAT other thread because my friend requested my presence over there. You know me, I've a weak spot for the underdogs.  But the ambiance is different. Over here, as @BaiZiHua said, we can focus on the development of their relationship without the turbulence. 

Wait. Will go. Flight being called. 

 

 

 

[gerrytan8063]

@lavender2love

"the Manchurians "

No....Just the Manchu...not Manchurian as I had already explained in previous post

"I Guess the egret has a special meaning too. "

It is a crane in Gyeon Woo rank insignia . It is known as the Dan Hak (단학 흉배, 單鶴 Single Crane Rank Insignia). You may see the red crown & black beak on his rank insignia (refer to the post that you had posted earlier)

There is a Japanese idiom "tsuru no hito koe" (鶴の一声) which literally translates as, “a word from the crane’, meaning the “voice of authority”, the one who has the final word that is not challenged.  This is how high the crane is regarded, no one questions his opinions.

[kittyna]

@gerrytan8063 Thanks for pointing out the difference between Manchu and Manchurian. I didn't know that - which is kind of embarrassing since I am Chinese. I'd always thought that they were interchangeable or that Manchu was a derogatory shortening of Manchurian (think of things like Fu Manchu and other offensive depictions of Chinese throughout North American history).

[gerrytan8063]

@kittyna

"Thanks for pointing out the difference between Manchu and Manchurian. I didn't know that - which is kind of embarrassing since I am Chinese. I'd always thought that they were interchangeable or that Manchu was a derogatory shortening of Manchurian (think of things like Fu Manchu and other offensive depictions of Chinese throughout North American history)."

Don't be.....I too didn't know very much about Chinese history. When I grew up, we have a very Western outlook & as a teen, the Japanese manga & the Nintendo games was my interest. My parents had an English education, my father work in a British company. For us, China was a country in a distance, that we were barred from travels since 1949 & we only could visit China in 1991. We know very little of our Chinese ancestry or roots....what was left was the city or town of origin & the dialects that was orally passed down but as generation pass, the dialect became somewhat diluted adding English or Malay words to make up the vocabulary & Chinese culture was non existence except for festivals if it was passed down & practice

It was in 1995, when I was posted to Shanghai that I took interest in matter Chinese....I took private Mandarin tutoring for 3 years in order to speak, read & write