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@nearsea but i still curious why they only show us "ds voice?" I personally thinking if i like/ or curious about someone feeling toward me, i might have to open his wallet. Just in case. And Ds also have curious feeling wondering jh like her or not. Plus.

we need to remember,last scene ep 7 we heard ds narration after no eul tell her that gloves is from JH. "I was at the age when i no longer believed in santa or felt my heart flutter because of secret santa. I was at an age age when a present was secretly left behind or secretly conveyed gentleness wasnt enough to fulfill my expectations. Excitement that would probably escape up to the back of my throat and choke me if i were try and suppress it. Embarrasment that would probably make my heart explode if i were to admit to it. I was dying to make it obvious, but didn't want to get caught. (She was happy while using the gloves from JH) That was the excitement we felt back in 1988. We were 18 years old back then." Sometimes this word shot me in my heart. Ds said she wont make it obvious,that the reason why she didnt choose jh gloves. #sorry #this #word #might #be #killing #us #shot #us. 

Im so sorry i find this narration from ds.

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@sartikam This is from db.Now this conveys a whole different message right? We can interpret these words in different ways it seems =/...

' We were at the age where we no longer believed in Santa, and were no longer excited by a manitto game. It was an age where we weren’t satisfied by the excitement of a secret present. Palpitations filled us to the brim and made breathing difficult. Embarrassment made us feel like our hearts would burst. We wanted it to be known so badly, but didn’t want to be caught. That fluttering of ’88. We were eighteen.”

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@nearsea DB ? What is that? I dont know which one is the right one. Since i dont understand korean language. But sometimes, when we follow the story line, without Shipping them. those words might have big meaning, eventhought she added "when i was 18years". It could be meant about teenager life, or her expectation about her love life. This time Reply series give us 50:50 for husband hunting. I love bo gum, i love bo gum with hyeri. but i still follow the story line. I want my lovely couple became true, but i cant blind to see another possibility. Hehehe 

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@sartikam It's the recap from dramabeans.There are so many voice overs in this drama,at this point they seem very tricky.And like they always overlap different story when someone is saying  something in the background.So,it could be meant for someone specific or in general...right.I don't know.What you said can be held true too.

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@Wendy Wang

23 hours ago, Wendy Wang said:

I've thought about what if Deok Sun was sad because she raised her hopes up, but ended up having to study. 
I'm pretty sure I saw something like this in the MT, but it just doesn't make sense to me that the only reasons she could be sad are that Junghwan doesn't seem to like her and her grades aren't very good. 
Has anyone noticed that Taek never told her about a movie? He just told her to keep her Saturday free and he'll call her the night before. Never once did he mention a movie. So it's logically not possible for Deok Sun to be anticipating a movie, she was anticipating Taek. Now, why did she say, " Nothing's working out for me lately."? So why is nothing going right for her? If you think about it, she was all happy knowing that if Taek won, she would spend her Saturday with him, she wasn't even a bit sad that she might not get to study that day. She only became sad or even realized her sadness after Taek said he couldn't make it. Deok Sun was sad because of Taek. She wasn't sad about anything before Taek cancelled. In other words, she wasn't as bummed out as afterwards. She could have been sad about not having a dream job, not having a college to go to and Junghwan not liking her, but she's never shown a level of sadness where she was completely down for the entire day until that SATURDAY.  
If we do find out that Taek is not the husband, I will be okay with Junghwan being the husband, but I will not be okay with the poor script writing that led up to it.

 

...I think you should share this on the main thread too, because it's so good. I think the Jong Palers have not even given thought to this side of the coin because they're so sure JH is the reason (for everything). I just wonder are we even watching the same drama? really? :w00t:

@Meliere great post! I agree with you, on so many levels. More of these, please! :D

Quote

PD Shin & writer Lee are smart people, and given what's been presented in the episodes so far, I do wonder if they're trying to venture outside of the kdrama cosmology. I'd assume both are well read people. Outside of kdramas, unreliable narratives/narrators and metafiction are the film-and-fiction zeitgeist of the modern era. Taek’s transformation from “obvious” second lead to Mr. husband is actually more fitting to the tone and style of R88 than JH being end game.

 

And here's a few beautiful fanmade's of TAEK/DEOKSUN :heart:

12299001_932887563460196_323411271_n.jpg

tumblr_o0g431lm2c1uk4jzpo1_540.jpg

 

:wub::wub::wub::wub::wub:

 

 

cr: owners

 

Edited by sarsu
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22 minutes ago, sarsu said:

tumblr_o0g431lm2c1uk4jzpo1_540.jpg

 

:wub::wub::wub::wub::wub:

 

 

cr: owners

 

 

:heart: THIS BEAUTIFUL LAST ONE IS FROM OUR VERY OWN @gerimisore :heart: Korean netizens may enjoy lots of fan art, but I still puff with pride that Taek's room / Taektanic has a resident artist as amazing as our cutie gerimisore. 

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1 hour ago, Meliere said:

The reason why I was never fully onboard with JH’s story is because it felt (to me personally) that the writer was holding back on her creative/intellectual powers when crafting his arc.

This! Completely agree with you.

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Whenever Doksun felt that she was rejected she'd throw a tantrum....or insist on what she wants like with sunwoo when she realised that he likes her sister or when she wanted to go to the concert with Junghwan ...also when she thought  that he gave her present to Jungbong.

But she never gets mad at Taek when it comes to this kind of stuff...when he forgot about the gloves and when he cancelled the date...she was clearly disappointed but she didn't show it in front of him ...It's definitely not because she doesn't want to hurt him...it's because he's special...she's afraid she'll look too obvious ? I believe that she didn't act that way on purpose ...it's more like she didn't realise yet her own feelings for him.

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Whoaa.. waking up with so many posts. I think I should go back and like all of the posts bcs all of em' are good and analytical. Moreover it not based from vague or assuming but with proof.I think we are getting to the answer and more confident than few dys before. Way to go chingus. If we have to study at school like Sung Deok Sun im sure we will excel and get accepted to Seoul university like Bora. Hehe.. looking forward to all of yall post today. Have a great day everyone. 

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Spoiler
2 hours ago, Meliere said:

Since this thread is full of smarty pants, I think we've analyzed just about everything... :sweatingbullets::D Going into episode 17, I'm feeling pretty good about our ship. Thank you girls for your awesome posts. :heart:

After watching ep. 15-16, I had some additional observations, which I've been meaning to share but never got around to typing it all out. Well, I had some free time this morning, so here it goes:

Nearly all the episodes have a consistent structure that I believe represents the overarching story as a whole.

The episodes so far contain the following elements:

  1. Non-linear story telling (i.e. flashbacks galore)
  2. Critical information withheld or missing
  3. A reversal or surprising revelation near the end.

 

In this sense the show is constantly playing one-upmanship with viewer assumptions and expectations. Let's take an early example: in Episode 1, we assumed DS lost her place as a picket girl. It wasn’t until D-day that it was revealed, retroactively, that she got to take someone else’s place. That information was withheld from us and was never told “in real time” on screen. Same with SW’s crush on BR. Critical scenes/information were withheld, and were only revealed non-linearly at the end of episode 6 for the big reveal. Basically the list goes on and on for every episode, from important arcs such as TK-Papa bear’s relationship and Sunyoung finding cigarettes in SW’s room to Taek’s aborted confession in ep. 16.

What's ironic is that people keep on saying R88 is so obvious and predictable, YET at every turn predictions completely go wrong and shippers are left surprised and/or confused. See a pattern here? I believe individual episode structure also represent the direction of the story at large:  What’s been told in the beginning matters less than what will be unveiled at the end.

And guess which character’s arc aligns most closely with the aforementioned structure? Choi Taek's emergence from the story has consistently subverted drama conventions and viewer expectations. The hit list has been pretty dead-on so far... "Choi Taek is so innocent he can't possibly be a smoker". CHECK. “Choi Taek doesn’t seem like the type to be popular with girls.” CHECK. "Choi Taek is so clingy he'd never back off" CHECK. "Choi Taek is so oblivious he needs someone to tell him that JH likes DS." CHECK. “Choi Take needs mothering; he can’t even take care of himself, much less other people” CHECK. Etc etc etc, over and over again. What's left is this: "And anyway the husband is Ryu Jun Yeol." Guess which way the narrative is going to swing?

The reason why I was never fully onboard with JH’s story is because it felt (to me personally) that the writer was holding back on her creative/intellectual powers when crafting his arc. JH’s destiny has been fairly predictable since the beginning: everyone could spot the tsundere thing, the eventual crush on DS, his noble idiocy etc. For a show so careful with its storytelling, it’s like the writer just decided to flash everyone at point blank, and left few things to guesswork. It’s incredibly anti-intuitive from a narrative perspective if he’s to be the husband—why start the JH/DS loveline with the strongest scene (boner! boner! boner!) in your book and proceed to dial it down from there? (bonus: didn’t Chilbong’s entry into the husband game start off with a real kiss and his glorious abs? Suddenly JH’s half naked scenes seem less indicative of any real outcome.)

PD Shin & writer Lee are smart people, and given what's been presented in the episodes so far, I do wonder if they're trying to venture outside of the kdrama cosmology. I'd assume both are well read people. Outside of kdramas, unreliable narratives/narrators and metafiction are the film-and-fiction zeitgeist of the modern era. Taek’s transformation from “obvious” second lead to Mr. husband is actually more fitting to the tone and style of R88 than JH being end game.

--

The writer may be setting up JH as the one to move on

For a show so obsessed with reversals and so-called "twists", R88 isn't random and doesn't commit itself to out-of-nowhere developments. In this sense its surprises are even more enjoyable; if you want to leap really really high, you gotta crouch and prep for it. SW's feelings for BR may have surprised people, but clues were thrown everywhere in the preceeding episodes. Same with TK bowing out of the confession-- they built up tension with all those suggestions of TK preferring to "die than be second place", and yet if anyone's truly watched episode 15 (TK asking a hospital director for a favor, even though he hates favors on principle; TK giving the baduk center director money to take the interview crew for drinks, even though he hates interviews on principle), you'd see his backing out from miles away. 

Watching this show, I get the sense that writer Lee is someone who throws out bread crumb trails / paving stones to prep her narrative course. 

Watching ep. 16, I'm sniffing out her bread crumb trail. And it's telling me JH will move on.

Remember guys: one little isolated detail may be random; repeated "random" details = foreshadowing. When in doubt, refer back to Chekhov's gun: "If you say in the first chapter that there is a rifle hanging on the wall, in the second or third chapter it absolutely must go off. If it's not going to be fired, it shouldn't be hanging there."

JH1.jpg

JH2.jpg

Okay, this first example isn't really foreshadowing. But I find it super important! Thank you writer for finally giving us a glimpse of JH as a living, breathing person. That scene with JB is especially telling: big bro was being all serious and sweet about the pilot thing... only for JH to dead-pan that he wants to be a fighter pilot. Look at JB's face during that scene ("Wait ... since when?"). Dude actually looked upset. Big bro's non-knowledge runs parallel to the fact that not a soul knows about JH's feelings for DS (*cough* except baduk master). We find out from these two scenes that JH is still a teen boy-- still growing and maturing as an individual. This is realistic and lovely (given DS, SW, DR are very much the same). But it also tells us that JH doesn't really know what he wants or needs-- nor does he know how to articulate, crystallize and realize such wants or needs.  His emotions and feelings are still in flux; and I bet he doesn't even know the concrete limits and bounds of his heart... much less confess his feelings to another person. He’s never said “I like DS” to himself or to another person (defection & non-answer: "she’s the prettiest amongst the ugliest ones.") He doesn’t quite take action (first snow—laughing rather than confessing). Until DS fished it out of him (blind date question), it’s uncertain if JH ever planned on confessing. And then, further down the episode we find out his dreams have shifted from soccer to basketball to top gun fighter pilot, and that most of it was formed around suggestions (get it? get it? DS likes SW/JH via friends' suggestions; JH first became aware of his feelings for DS via "suggestion" from boner  down there ). All those scenes of JH forever hesitating (too shy to offer DS his jacket; too shy to approach crying DS) now make a lot of sense: 16 episodes later, JH's feelings for DS have not yet evolved from crush to love.

JH3.jpg

Yes, I know that plane is blue. But let's not talk about that. :sweatingbullets: 

Paper airplane makes two separate appearances in the episode. Seeing it, I'm reminded of the bus. It's interesting that TK-DS are represented by organic symbols (fish, sea, water) while JH-DS modes of transportation. The crane is another organic symbol: according to Jong Bong, "If you fold 1,000 of these tiny paper cranes, they become real cranes, and fly away. Also, they grant the wish of the one who folded them." Earlier in the episode, we have a scene of Jong Bong diligently taking notes from DS, wanting to learn and know everything about Mi Ok. JH sweetly wants to help out, but is limited by the fact that he doesn't know how to fold cranes. In itself this fact symbolizes a teen boy's endearing inability to command the ins and outs of love. But when juxtaposed against TK's development in the past 6 episodes, JH's end game position suddenly looks unfavorable. And then there's that ambiguous scene of JH holding the airplane and wanting it set it free and yet hesitating once again. I read it as a foreshadowing of his daring to "fly away" in the future. 

JH5.jpg

Our ancestor DR has spoken. Girls, listen to the oracle!

Again, in two separate scenes, JH is shown circling that math problem in an endless loop of frustration (until it literally looks like a black hole). Our boy is confused. Our boy is walking in circles deep in the woods. DR: "How many days have you been on the same problem?" BINGO. Yes, how many episodes has poor JH angsted over the love triangle? When the concept of "moving on" is introduced, the camera zooms in and lingers on JH considering the idea. 

--

DS is the key and our girl has spoken.

In a post on the MT, I guessed that R88 episodes are grouped in a 2-4-4-4-2-4 sequence:

  • Episodes 1-2 [2 eps]  Exposition (i.e. who what when where why); key characters and themes introduced.
  • Episodes 3-6 [4 eps]  DSSW, JHDS. DS’s teen-girl crush on SW explored (“all I can give you is candy/heart” present, post cards, intense determination, cute dressing up / primping / aegyo). JH’s crush on DS explored (alleyway, bus, back-hug, trench coat commercial, and umbrella scenes). TK DS hinted. TK enters the husband ‘race’ end of ep. 6, while SW is eliminated from the pool.
  • Episodes 7-10 [4 eps]  JHDS, TKDS, both JH and TK’s feelings are explored with equal weight. DS is a participant in these scenes, but she does not develop romantic feelings for either boys … until very end of episode 10, when she confirms JH’s feelings, and that brings us to the next arc—
  • Episode 11-14 [4 eps]  DSJH (JHDS on hold). DS’s cute, determined nature again comes to the fore, as she goes after JH. Ep. 11 was full of JH/DS goodies. Yet starting from ep. 13, decreased screen time for JH. TKDS developed- we learn about the depth of his feelings. Also, DS-TK bond/friendship/whatever is developed and explored.
  • Episode 15 – 16 [2 eps]-  A period of transition. DSJH ends (in that she’s not actively pursuing him anymore, though arguments could be made for her still having feelings), TKDS continues but is put on hold at the end of ep. 16. DS emerges as an individual (college struggles, DR’s pep talk, decision to fight for college after all). Hints of possible DSTK.
  • Guess how many episodes are left? 4 chingus. 4 again!

And that this episode grouping/sequence is completely in-line with DS's heart:

  • 2 episodes to establish DS as the kind-hearted & determined 999th place middle-child
  • 4 episodes of her crushing on SW
  • 4 episodes of her being “neutral”, all while spending time with JH & TK in a level ‘playing field’
  • 4 episodes of her crushing on JH
  • 2 episodes in which she re-examines her heart, steps back, grows as an individual, and sets her heart on college

And that right before each arc, it is in fact DS who signals shifts in the narrative:

  • End of Ep. 2, when it's revealed she'd written about a "first love" in her diary
  • End of ep. 6, when her crush on SW is terminated
  • End of ep. 10, when she discovers JH’s feelings
  • End of ep. 14, when she rescues class president, ends her pursuit of JH, and considers DR’s words of wisdom

Basically, whenever there's a major re-shuffling of the love lines, DS's feelings in the end of the immediate episode before will tell us what's going to happen next (she likes SW, SW eliminated from husband pool, her twisting the telephone cord = she likes JH, her convo w/ DR & giving up on JH). 

DS_key.jpg

Also, whenever there's a major shift of her heart in the next episode, DS is shown "keying" viewers by wearing pajamas and/or using the phone.  How clever of the PD. The phone is a representational play on "reply / answer me" (preview teasers also show characters using the phone). And the pajamas! Get it? This is DS before bedtime, at her most vulnerable and private state. It's a throwback to the literary/artistic tradition of granting viewers private access to a female character by showing her "in her boudoir" (art too! All those intimate eastern woodblock prints and western oil paintings showing women before baths, before bedtime, before getting dressed.)

PJ_telephone.jpg

Soooo ...

if my mapping of episode structure is correct ...

if we assume the last 4 episodes will form a new arc in regards to DS's feelings ...

... then the end of episode 16 must feature a scene of DS in pajamas talking on the phone, keying us on the dude she's going to have feelings for. 

Did we get a scene like this? :phew:

DS_sad.jpg

Oh man ... the production team isn't too subtle this time around, huh? B)

BONUS:

To borrow @liteulkwin's words: "PD SHIN, STARE AT ME IN THE FACE AND TELL ME THIS ISN'T FORESHADOWING."

Tk_foreshadow.jpg

@Meliere Slow and long claps for you. From technical point of view, this is spotless and very convincing.

If I were on JH's ship, I would be really nervous right now.

Meliere's analyses deserve a place on the main thread. Anyone else with me?

 

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@shooastrid *nervous laughter* nahhhh, let's not. JH shippers have the right to enjoy the main thread without anyone blowing holes in their ship. If our predictions are accurate, they'll be pretty upset after ep. 17 ('cuz, soon as DS develops feelings for TK, end game will be obvious). It's the new year, so let them enjoy their week in peace. If Taek turns out to be the husband, and IF team JH is raising hell about the story "not making any sense", then we should compile a masterlist of our analyses and share it on the MT. 

But thank you though, darling, for your words. I'm so flattered. Your baduk posts are precious to my heart. :heart:

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17 minutes ago, Meliere said:

@shooastrid *nervous laughter* nahhhh, let's not. JH shippers have the right to enjoy the main thread without anyone blowing holes in their ship. If our predictions are accurate, they'll be pretty upset after ep. 17 ('cuz, soon as DS develops feelings for TK, end game will be obvious). It's the new year, so let them enjoy their week in peace. If Taek turns out to be the husband, and IF team JH is raising hell about the story "not making any sense", then we should compile a masterlist of our analyses and share it on the MT. 

But thank you though, darling, for your words. I'm so flattered. Your baduk posts are precious to my heart. :heart:

OMG you can read my mind! I mean, IF the husband is Taek and people (read: intolerant JH shippers) start to question the writer's credibility, I would be more than happy to help compiling THAT masterlist.

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My goodness Meliere! Your post is seriously one of the best things I've read on Soompi.

A++++++ and a thousand high-fives. Wow.

It's NOT just because your post supports my ship. It's because it's incisive, observant, and very well-written.

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2 hours ago, Meliere said:

What's ironic is that people keep on saying R88 is so obvious and predictable, YET at every turn predictions completely go wrong and shippers are left surprised and/or confused [...]

 

This had once given me quite a fright because I was seeing Taek as the husband from almost the beginning since the DS-SW arc,  and then reaffirmed and reaffirmed with simple detective work and by the way the narrative and structure had been laid out... that I felt if it was too good to be true, it  could not be true (what's with the "rumours" that the writer was going to pull a twist on the obvious, or fans pressure could change the ending, this is a kdrama, etc... and my superstitious belief in the Murphy's Law) Your elaborate literary analyses @Meliere  and many people here had restored my faith. I should have known better that any self-respecting writer would not renege on what he or she had carefully developed.

There are a lot of "he says, she says", myths and presumptions surrounding Taek that are later debunked or corrected. The same goes with  the show: emotional baggages from previous instalments, generic templates of Kdrama leads and conflicts, fear of the known and unknown (of being fooled once more), etc.

In a way, I think Taek, the character, is set to be the writer's ultimate  answer to this fandom of Answer Me 1988, "you don't know anything about me (and my creation)."

Oh please keep 'em coming!

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20 minutes ago, allegramente said:

This had once given me quite a fright because I was seeing Taek as the husband from almost the beginning since the DS-SW arc,  and then reaffirmed and reaffirmed with simple detective work and by the way the narrative and structure had been laid out... that I felt if it was too good to be true, it  could not be true

UM..

Please remember that you are a special unicorn. Not everyone has your brain power, O computer programmer. I was never confident Taek's going to be end game until post-ep. 14. Can't believe you saw it since the DS-SW arc. :w00t: Back in ep. 1-6 I was crying, cuz I thought baduk master was going to be trampled and/or dead. 

But then again @mellinadear also predicted end game since episode 2. :sweatingbullets: Taek's room has so many wonderful people. :heart:

@chickfactor But we still must, must buy you ddeokbokki. I remember in the early days of the thread, everyone was so gloomy and delulu (LOL sorry guys! .. but we were doing stuff like looking at colors and digging for obscure clues, right?). And then you just kind of stepped in and said, concisely, "guys taek = end game. buy me food when it's all over."

How did you know so early??? 

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DOUBLE POST SORRY

--

edited to add:

answer04-00050.jpg

DUDE THIS IS THE ULTIMATE TAEK OUTFIT. ... GREEN SWEATER OVER BADUK SHIRT. :rolleyes: Totally gonna dress like this come finale day.

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@nearsea yes @Phuong Tam Nguyen is right it's the ep where they go to concert and it was revealed that she engineered the hand holding... 

@Meliere Absolutely LOVE your marvellous analysis! I want to attack it like that juicy pork cutlet becos it is parfait!  Lol its like they want to show that we need not feel too badly for JH becos like adult DS told us from ep1 he still has alot of growing up to do... 

After I rewatch the gloves scene... There was a part where she spazz out with giddy excitement when she thought Taek already got it for her... ( she was looking forward to it that much)  and she asked ( is Taek still here.... And REPEATS to No Eul again: he's still here isn't he?)  Doesn't it show that actually she just wants to see him? From seeing him a few hours before the previous night...

And when she was admiring her pink gloves from JH there was this scene where she stops, looks puzzled... And then continues to admire again... Was she asking herself why she doesn't feel the same happiness or excitement she felt when she thought Taek was buying them for her? 

There was a blink n you miss it scene where it's confirmed that she is JH secret santa, next to her diary shot... But she didn't make any effort to be nice to him the entire week... And didn't even go thank him for the gloves... * ok feel a bit bad for JH* < she only cared about secret santa if Taek was hers... 

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