icesiren Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 2 hours ago, Adnana said: @icesiren Wow, long time no see! Forever my hero since our "Faith" days. The real issues I have with E12 (though I'm still reserving final judgment until I watch both versions of the episode subtitled, and I find some time to organize my thoughts) are: 1) Hae Soo's current feelings for 8th "My heart was already for another person" --->Is that line what she literally thinks to herself as she's saying goodbye to 4th? I'm asking because I think I've seen it translated elsewhere as "My heart was heading towards another person" (as in: HS was in the process of giving her heart to 8th), which seems to hint that the heart was heading towards 8th but kept being diverted towards 4th. At any rate, I find the use of past tense significant. That is, I'm wondering if HS is purposely using that past tense to signify that her heart is already given to 8th and she's decided to keep that status quo, OR to signify that she used to think that her heart was his, but isn't sure anymore since she can't ignore 4th. And a year later, that dialogue with 8th when he visits her in the evening by the river. How did you interpret HS telling 8th that she missed him (in the int version) and asking him if he missed her, and saying that's enough. 2) Hae Soo's extreme harshness with 4th This particularly struck me during HS's first meeting with 4th when he comes looking for her on his return. The SBS cut their exchange after HS walks away the first time and 4th follows, but not only did she say that WS brings back all the bad memories, in the international version she says that whenever she's with 4th, she's scared and nervous and afraid that something bad will happen. Then, worst of all: "Come with you? Are you trying to kill me?" I really don't understand why it was necessary for HS to go so far, when if she wanted to push WS away, to get that message across it would have been enough to just say what was kept in the SBS version. Whereas using such deeply hurtful words (while being fully aware of their power to hurt) shouldn't come so easy to her, with a person that is dear to her and also very vulnerable emotionally (WS). @Adnana, seriously, it's been a long time since our Faith-er days. I had to wait until I was really inspired by a drama, which I found with Moon Lovers. So I'm glad to be around again to enjoy the fandom. As always, I enjoy what your analysis of how events are unfolding. 1. In terms of the translation you are asking about, "my heart was heading towards another person," is the literal translation of HS's words. It is a matter of interpretation, as always, but generally when someone uses this phrase, it basically means that they love ______ (insert name here). So essentially, HS is saying that she had feelings for WW, but didn't' understand why she it is so hard to ignore WS. I do think the past tense is significant here, because while she does acknowledge that she had WW in her heart, real uncertainty exists as to the real nature of her feelings for WS .. if that makes any sense whatsoever. So i think it's more in line with your second interpretation. As for HS' nighttime convo with WW, I mentioned it in my previous post, but the way I see it, I think it was a bittersweet moment for HS. She needed to know that her feelings for WW weren't' misplaced and one-sided - confirmation, if you will, that she wasn't a complete nincompoop in her judgment about the first man she chose to give her heart to since the betrayal she suffered in Modern times. She needed to know that at the very least, he cared for her enough to miss her. Which he says he did. (I don't doubt he thinks he loves her a bunch, but why oh why, did he have to turn it around and make it about himself, "please don't hurt, don't make me feel more guilt than i do already". blah blah). So now she can move on, knowing that at that moment, her 8th prince wasn't a complete turd like Modern BF. 2. Man, I wish they had kept the versions, SBS vs. international, consistent across the board. Because yes, what their exchange in the international version sounds harsher than the SBS. Whatever she says, I believe it's HS's misguided way of trying to be cruel to be kind. On the one hand, there is some element of self preservation to her actions. She is doing her best to push him away because she thinks she can't handle the price that is to be paid for getting involved in the Princes and their court intrigues. Because any person who is involved with one of them main contenders for the throne is undoubtedly going to get caught up in the muck too. And after she already lost Lady Oh - well, it's understandable that she is being extra cautious about taking on any further emotional, mental and possibly physical wounds. On the other hand, however, I do think she is doing her best to make WS turn away so he can focus on his own well-being. Not only has he gotten in trouble and sick because of her, but she already sees the (physical, emotional and mental) scars he bears from being a son of the King - all of which already contribute to a darker Prince. But can you imagine of he takes on HS's burdens as well, and how much darker he could become to have and protect her? I feel like she can read the writing on the wall, and is doing her absolute worst to ensure he has a shot at a more peaceful life. [although the convo with the King at the end probably dispelled all that - after all, he is born under the King's star. Some fates cant be avoided.] "If i am King, will you leave with me? Although it was hard going back and forth as an envoy, there were many times when i was free. I thought about you during those times and wanted you to be free too. I want to be with you without any barriers/blocks. If i can't, Nothing, not even the kingship, matters to me." -- 4th Prince to HS during his proposal. <3 Swoon 4th Pince ship here! 21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnniSarah Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 Happy 900 pages chingu. I am so happy that alot of people are watching this drama and joining this thread to discuss it. 17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmoirae2 Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 2 hours ago, pujajain said: 2)She is beginning to realize no one has truly has power except the king. Me -> True and it looks like the way to Soo is through the throne ... Wook nor So had the desire to be king but the realization is that it's the only way to get Soo out of the mess that they may have contributed to. It's like a package deal, whoever gets to the throne wins the girl. 3) . She is here to witness history not play a role in it. Strangely the more she avoids it, the bigger role she gets to play. I found it interesting that today Soo coincidentally led him on a path to throne. He has always wanted to avoid throne because that is what he thought Soo would like and he would enjoy. But in today's episode, he connected throne with having unlimited access to Soo. Me -> Soo may have thought she is witnessing history but she will realize that she is actually part of it. The root of tension between So and Wook and the formation of factions among brothers -> Soo ... Why do So and Wook desire the crown when they didn't care about it before? because of the power it comes with it and will be able to free -> Soo ... Me -> Thinking aloud here ... if Soo was not part of the equation, would history be written as it is known in current times or could it be that Soo was a catalyst for history to be written as it is known today? 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enigmatic_zephy Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 5 hours ago, Rosemary83 said: Gosh people you are too mean to So if you want YH for him!!! How could you only imagine him with this evil rat!!! Very and really upset with such wishes... She isn't evil. Her priorities are different... and on other hand compare YH to HS for So. Hasn't YH always thought favourably for WS - for a man who thought no one cared for him, she did. Even he failed to notice that.. and went with HS because HS with all her antics is unlike any other woman they have seen (thank 21st century for that where girls can interact freely with boys). - YH actually likes HS - More capable than anyone else to ensure no one looks down upon her husband - Can get her husband the lost position in the place ( HS on other hand will never get this aspect of royal life etc.. and will always view things from her prejudiced ethical lenses.. e.g. she can't accept murders even if it is inevitable...) - Very very focused, determined,fiercely loyal And honestly, as far as personality goes.. HS is good to be a middle class , normal citizen's wife.. she does not have the confident grace of a queen... YH on the other hand fits in the royal panaroma to the T ******************* I am not able to post pictures at all.. What to do? I uploaded one on tinypic. Copied direct link for layout, pasted it here in comment box.. I see the picture getting embedded but when i submit reply, it turns into a blank post? subs are out 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoxanaR Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 Just now, enigmatic_zephy said: subs are out where ? I just know kissasian 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post briseis Posted October 3, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted October 3, 2016 “I protected what I wanted to protect. Now I need to pay for it.” - Lady Oh Everybody in this story wants love and affection and freedom, even YH and Yo do, but there are only few who are brave enough to risk it all and take the ultimate sacrifices to protect it; because only their love and desire are strong enough. HS protected her freedom by giving herself a scar, Lady Oh protected HS by giving up her own life and Wang So rather gives up being close to the woman he loves to ensure her safety. And for him, being separated from HS is the ultimate punishment. He already broke too many of the king’s orders for her and he knows that being send as an envoy to the Later Jin is his father’s way of keeping him away from HS, yet he is still willing to go, to tear himself away from her, and all he asks in return is that HS will be kept safe in Damiwon in the time he won’t be there to protect her. He is willing to leave Songak (which has become the equivalent of being with her), become the king’s dog and do his bidding - ALL FOR HER. When he is packing his things, you realize how little in the term of possession So truly owns - some clothes, his sword and THE MAKE-UP SOO MADE FOR HIM and he is protecting it in a beautifully carved wooden box (something he would never own otherwise) because it’s her gift to him which IS HIS MOST PRIZED POSSESSION. One more proof how much he treasures her and everything she has given him. And then he becomes the feared Wolf Dog again, putting his mask back on, his hair down and freed, and it’s all for her. And not before a year is gone, a year he’s spend without her, HE IS RUSHING BACK, TO HER. “You broke your side of the bargain. The deal is off. (Do you still have feelings for her? A king must be able to turn on anyone for his country!) I am no king and I will not become one. If the Crown Prince needs support… then let me be free. I want to live like a human being.” When he returns and finds out his father broke that promise he literally drops mic and throws his father away, choosing HS without any hesitation. Last week, it appeared that it will be the helplessness to protect her from the ordeal that would drive So to want power and the throne, but I underestimated him - he is much more awesome than that! SO SIMPLY GIVES A richard simmons DAMN ABOUT POWER, THE THRONE AND HIS OWN FAMILY because they NEVER MEANT ANYTHING TO HIM, NEVER DONE ANYTHING FOR HIM. IN THE END, SO IS JUST LIKE HAE SOO - HE SIMPLY WANTS TO BE FINALLY FREE OF IT ALL, LEAVE THE GILDED CAGE, AND LIVE FREELY WITH THE WOMAN HE LOVES. 37 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Agustini S Posted October 3, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted October 3, 2016 (edited) You all need to WATCH, like really watch this episode first, even better with sub, on a big TV screen before judging and bashing Soo. Those tears on her eyes (after she saw what she thought was her imagination of So and then realized that he was REAL when she heard his voice) weren't placed there for no reason. She cared so much for So. She just didn't want him to do anymore sacrifice for her, and she tried to push him away with those harsh words. In SBS version she had some voiceovers that I believe would explain her true feeling and why she treated him that way. This episode has so many things unsaid, holding on her words alone will be misleading, you have to observe Soo's expression to get her true feeling. For that I will keep my hope high that So-Soo ship will start to sail in full speed soon. Edited October 3, 2016 by Agustini S typo 26 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnniSarah Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 @briseis ... Chingu ist Moon Lovers Scarlet Heart Ryeo OST part 10 out?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finebyme Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 I noticed she still had the limp. So she now has two injuries that disqualifies her for being the wife of king. Which mean WS has to get her before he becomes king 1 hour ago, aypopa said: Is that HS in background? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enigmatic_zephy Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 @MadraRua Thanks! 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addaxi Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 3 minutes ago, finebyme said: Is that HS in background? If you're talking about the photo of Wang So lying down shirtless—it is! Lee Joon Gi posted it on his instagram a few days ago. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minmar Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 Hello again all you eclipses. I just wanted to drop by and say I have tried reading everyone's posts ( well as many as I could given the way you guys are writing and writing. Whew! Who can keep up? ) BUT those I've had the fortune to read are fantastic. Great analysis and commentary. I know everyone is having a great time and it so hypes this wonderful drama. Great Job everyone!!! I am so glad to see that the changes to the tone of this epic have been noticed. It has developed from light and cute to intense and nail biting so well. I'm especially pleased that IU is being appreciated. The woman has worked hard to carry the majority of this drama. She deserves credit for that. Naturally, I would have loved to have seen more of Joon in this but at the same time he certainly has put his mark on this production. Despite having so little screen time so far, what he has done is make every second he is on the screen HOT AND AMAZING. He deserves the biggest and best award and he had better get it or there is going to be such an uproar. I wouldn't want to see the comments if he is ignored. Kdrama awards will never be respected again if that happens. Finally, poor HS. I mean I can totally understand her hesitation about dumping poor Wook. I mean she loves him and even though he has shown himself to be a major butthead She, (like most women), is gonna give her love the benefit of the doubt.....over and over.... How many times have we and our friends done the same thing? Be honest... you know it has happened IRL. But the smack down is coming...we know it is. The light bulb is going to come on and she will break that bracelet and So will be there. I suspect it is going to take a major event adding to what has already happened for her to finally wake up. I won't even speculate on what that might be... Again thanks for everyone's comments and insight. Love ya ALL!! PS. It looks like Joon's Instagram will hit the 1 million mark in the next day or two. Be ready to partae!!! 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addaxi Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 Aw, poor babies. They look so tired in the background. 17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lunalovescookies Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 (edited) Something that's been bugging me since episode 9 is how people put down Hae Soo whenever she rejects Wang So. I understand that he really likes her and would do anything for her , but that doesn't mean she has to reciprocate his feelings to the same degree. Edited October 3, 2016 by lunalovescookies 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Gabi Bros Posted October 3, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted October 3, 2016 16 minutes ago, enigmatic_zephy said: She isn't evil. Her priorities are different... Are we talking of the same girl that was enjoying whipping Chaeryung? And the one that a minute after enjoyed whipping Hae Soo in replacement of Chaeryung? She even plotted to kill 2 persons (Crown Prince and Hae Soo). And she is not evil? What is she? I understand YeonHwa suffered...but she suffered equally as Wook and his mother because of Queen Yoo. Wook has killed but I can't imagine him laughing and enjoying someone's suffering. And if he does...he is hiding that evilness very well. YeonHwa cares for Wang So? Yes. But let's remember that Queen Yoo cares for 14th prince...but that doesn't make her a good person. Queen Yoo is evil even loving 14th prince. 33 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnniSarah Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 3 hours ago, nubianlegalmind said: Okay Moon Lovers, I am here to bring calm to the angst of the Soo-So shippers. Soo has a role to play. She is not from this time. We are talking about the year 942-943. She is from over a thousand years later. Her purpose right now is to make sure that So becomes king. Let's all accept and receive this. Jumping on the So- Yeon Hwa bandwagon is counterproductive. YH is the reason all of the mess from episode 11 occurred. She is manipulative and at times cruel, not to mention selfish. She is absolutely NOT what So needs. History tells us, they will likely get married, but as we know, marriages at that time were often very political. It still doesn't mean So and Soo can't have a love of their own. Somehow, I feel like this story is going to somehow affect her present day life more than what is happening over there. So, hang in there chingus! I think the same thing chingu. Even her presence there will aaffect the future somehow. After hearing about the king KNowing HAe Soo isn't is NOT HAE SOO. I have alot of question chingu. LIke for 1.... How does he know that? 2. was her presence foretold?? 3. was she going to come if WS never got the scar? Reeading someone post saying the King said SO will become king... Is quite puzzeling because he is always trying to send WS away if he thought WS wanted to be king? BUt here he is stating he knows he will be king. Tae Jo doesn't want HAe Soo trying to change anything but allowing all the events to happen as they are supposted to. 16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fengari Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 1 hour ago, cmoirae2 said: .. Why (...........) Wook desire the crown when they didn't care about it before? because of the power it comes with it and will be able to free -> Soo ... Me -> Thinking aloud here ... if Soo was not part of the equation, would history be written as it is known in current times or could it be that Soo was a catalyst for history to be written as it is known today? I think that if HS was not part of the equation ( never travelled back in time) Wook still would go for the throne. Queen´s Yoo ambition and schemes were prior HS arrival. And Wook ´s house (in the sense of "oikos") is permanently and fatally threatened by Queen Yoo. So to make the long story short, Wook eventually would go for the throne (either by personal ambition, either to protect his mother and sister , either both). Afterall, already in the past he did a marriage due political gains (to be possible for him and his family to return to palace). If HS has a catalyst role, this is that she brings in the gamethrone WS, and she destabilizes WW smooth way. Because even if WS ( without HS arrival) was predestinated ( without knowing that) by his king/father to become king, and even if the king is considered the most powerful figure, the king is still depending on the clans.And WW is more probable to be favored by the clans (he is recognised as achieved in the king-to-be training, while WS, despite his talents is a cursed scarface) .So, HS, at this point makes WW angry (in a dangerous way) and maybe even reckless, WW maybe will want to accelerate things if he sees that he is losing HS (for the moment he is still cautious, "i have to keep it low, in order not to be blamed as traitor" says to his sister, but he already became aggressive and more succeptible to intrigues). In any case, the "noble, aloof" facade of WW is ancient history. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoxanaR Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 Today OST part 10 (Lee hi ) is out , I was waiting Akmu OST so long , but since episodes for now are sad I think that will be later Anyway I love this song too and fits with today episode 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addaxi Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 1 minute ago, lunalovescookies said: Something that's been bugging me since episode 9 is how people put down Hae Soo whenever she rejects Wang So. I understand that he really likes her and would do anything for her , but that doesn't mean she has to reciprocate his feelings to the same degree. Personally (I can't speak for anyone else here), I've never really complained about Hae Soo rejecting Wang So. I just really dislike the fact that she can't seem to separate her own worth from Wang Wook's anymore—I know she's in love and pining, but seeing her suffer and hearing her say that it's all okay so long as Wook thinks of her still (seriously?) is painful. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoxanaR Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 45 minutes ago, enigmatic_zephy said: She isn't evil. Her priorities are different... and on other hand compare YH to HS for So. Hasn't YH always thought favourably for WS - for a man who thought no one cared for him, she did. Even he failed to notice that.. and went with HS because HS with all her antics is unlike any other woman they have seen (thank 21st century for that where girls can interact freely with boys). yes , her priorities are other and he is able to do everything to get it ..... for me she is obviously evil , she even can to die someone if clutters her way. I don't like YH , since she started to think in WS how a way to get the throne because he is the most strong HS is also thinking in WS , she is just a laundress now ,if she accept the married , he will be prejudiced. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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