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[Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner

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@briseis Loved your Inu yasha post :wub: Before ep 10, it reminded me a lot of Inu Yasha, specially how IY always looks out for Kagome and he just cannot help but care for her and their bickering too :D

Post ep 11 SHR reminds me of Inu Yasha in a different way. In my mind the characters have reversed and I kind of see Hae Su as that part of Inu Yasha who try as he might could not forget Kikyo :crazy: and the said Kikyo here being Wang Wook :( who though had loved Inu Yasha but later did all sorts of things to destroy him and his friends, and our Wang So relegated to the role of poor Kagome whose heart is hurt every time Inu Yasha can't shake off feeling for Kikyo :sweatingbullets:

Btw, all your posts are soo full of heart and amazingly worded I love them. Thanks for taking the time to give us these wonderful commentaries. The grand romance that I don't fully feel from Su and So's scenes at this point in time I feel from your posts.....when I look at them, its still a one sided one :D that I hope for the sake of our longing hearts will change soon enough.

Lastly, I think the problem is that since we know the episode count is so short and time is ticking away our impatience to get that epic romantic feel between So and Su that we have built up in our expectations is making us frustrated :D  Relax some more dear eclipses....I feel you.....but maybe lowering our expectations on this front at this point is probably good for our sanity :phew: so that when we do get to the epic part we really enjoy it even if its for one episode (hope not :P ).

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1 hour ago, MadraRua said:

I found this opinion on Wang Wook vs Wang So and enjoyed it so thought I'd share with my fellow eclipses here.... Cr: kang-chuls

wook versus so: an Opinion

ok lol I lied here is the real #review. as I understand it I’m late to the party but you’ll have to bear with me while I type up my impressions of the whole Wook vs So debacle. let me preface this by saying that I do not sympathize with either of these characters, I am Team Soo all the way, but I’m interested in viewing them both through an objective lens, with my primary concern being developing character arcs and how they relate to major themes in this show.

so I saw someone ask in the tag if Wook had been this way all along or if he had changed somehow. well, personally, in the middle of the scene with Yeon Hwa I found myself recalling an earlier time when he was discussing killing with Soo. what rattled me a little at the time was when Wook said he had no regrets and no nightmares when he first killed someone at the age of eleven, because it was to protect his family. this is especially significant in light of Soo’s statement “he won’t change,” which seems a little eerie in hindsight. because you realize Wook really hasn’t changed. people say So doesn’t blink when he kills, but it’s honestly so much scarier with Wook because he genuinely does not have a moral issue with it. Wook’s morals exist along different lines than So’s do; they aren’t universal, they’re situational. add this to the fact that Wook has always been a fundamentally selfish character and his change of heart is much less than surprising. even his care for Soo is established on quite shaky grounds, more shaky than Soo herself can imagine because she is the opposite of Wook in this regard.

to begin with, as he states to Lady Hae, he is drawn to Hae Soo because she is an unselfish person who keeps saying she doesn’t want to hold him back. following this initial attraction, his relationship with her is based around his own emotions regarding Lady Hae’s death, and these emotions become so intertwined that he doesn’t even seem to distinguish his feelings of “love” for Soo from his feelings of guilt over his dead wife. but Wook is weak-willed and unsure, he’s constantly vacillating and once a better chance presents itself he abandons his current occupation (freeing Soo) to turn his attention to his own family, who he’s always protected before. he can’t contemplate abandoning them. he was never as truly committed to Soo as he was to these two other causes: his family and his own interests - though his guilt remains, and no doubt we’ll see him wallow in it a good bit more as the plot progresses, it’s never been enough to stop him from losing more of his humanity. 

Wook has never been a cruel character, never purposefully conniving or intentionally harmful. his commitment to his own skin has never seemed overt before now, because he really wants to be a decent guy, if only so he won’t have to feel bad. but for all of his qualms, he’s never held back. when the moment comes to choose, he chooses what’s best for Wang Wook every time. So says “he won’t change.” well, in a way, she’s right. he’ll still kill for his family, but most of all for himself, because he doesn’t want to feel guilty for not having stood by them. he’s driven primarily by guilt, haunted by it, and it will be what eventually destroys him in the end.

as far as general morality goes, Moon Lovers’ morality is based around its message, which concerns action vs inaction. inaction is shown to be the true evil in this show: if you do nothing and allow bad things to happen to others while you cower in on yourself, you’re either one of the bad guys already or you’re heading that direction (or you’re the king. in which case you die next episode, presumably). Wook exemplifies inaction by refusing to take risks for what he cares about, then agonizing over it later. he won’t tell Lady Hae he loves her, he won’t risk his own neck to free Soo, and he won’t stand up for Soo once she’s accused if it means throwing his own family and himself under the bus. action, on the other hand, is favored even if it’s risky action. in this regard, Soo embodies this philosophy more than any other character. she jumps into the lake after the child, she stands up for Chae Ryung, she leaps to Jung’s rescue when he’s held up by bandits, she scars her own arm so she can’t be married to the king, she kneels in protest of Court Lady Oh’s death - and these are just the major ones I can think of so far. basically this girl is hardcore. not to mention the show’s other “good guys,” like Lady Oh herself, Lady Hae, Chae Ryung, and the princes who are actually decent, all of whom more or less spring into action when the moment demands it, despite their personal struggles. but this brings me to my next point: is Wang So “good” or not?

the big debate tends to be about whether or not his actions are excusable, but I’m not particularly interested in that question because in the end, your answer for this one depends on your own personal opinions and experiences. which are very relevant, but not to an overall discussion. we all use different measures when we judge a character, and my personal ethics and everyone else’s are utterly irrelevant towards what the show is trying to establish. what’s relevant is that the show is setting him up as a force for good at the present moment, because So acts. every time. he’s a bit of a chaotic force in this regard, as he doesn’t always act rightly or on the side of the “good guys,” which we recognize from the first episode. he himself gives the analogy that best suits him, and it’s one I like and will be using from here on out: it’s not whether the sword is well forged or not, it’s how you wield it.

So doesn’t always know what’s ok to do and what isn’t, but he always thinks he does because he can’t act without believing what he does is right. this is the reason he can kill without blinking, because he believes he’s doing the right thing in each of these situations. (and when he doesn’t, he can always justify it in retrospect and promise not to do it again, right?) I’m not saying this is the best way to live. in fact, as far as I’m concerned, it’s downright stupid, but that’s a personal opinion and therefore irrelevant to what I’m trying to say here. anyhow what I’m saying is that the relevant standard to judge So by is the show’s standard, and that’s whether or not he takes action to protect what’s important to him.

what’s important to So from the beginning is love, belonging, acceptance. in the end he doesn’t care so much about possessing these things as being engulfed by them, being surrounded by people he trusts and unconditionally accepted. he’s so desperate for these things that he’s willing to go to any lengths to have them, even killing, threatening, resorting to violence and taking what’s denied him instead of waiting for it to be offered. slowly, though, he’s learning that the way to these things is not to seize them for himself through violent means, the way he does in episode 9/10, but to protect them as best as he can and wait for the rest. this doesn’t mean he’s not going to slip up again or that he no longer is trying to force this stuff, just that he’s growing as a character and he still has flaws in the way he’s wielded. he doesn’t have that perfect, just standard yet. he may get there and he may not, we’ll have to wait and see.

as yet, I don’t particularly ship So with Soo, because what I want primarily for Soo is peace and the ability to live without being controlled while protecting those she loves and helping them live to the fullest. this may involve So or it may not, depending on the direction he goes from here. but what I really want to drive home at present is the fact that we don’t need to justify So’s mistakes and we don’t need to demonize Wook. rather, they are both complicated, morally ambiguous characters who can be read through any number of lenses, but what’s actually relevant here is the direction they’re both headed in with regards to the show’s morality. at the moment, Wook has chosen to sit on the sidelines and watch as Soo’s injustice unfolds, while So has symbolically chosen to stand with her no matter the personal cost. this is what sets them up on their respective sides of the line, which is still being drawn as we speak, and what will ultimately determine both of their stories from this point forward.


Really in-depth character analysis :) Good! All of the charatcers in SHR, whether good or evil, they have their own moral compass that dictates their actions. Their past also moulds their present and shapes their beliefs, behaviour and character. They are rightly justified in their own ways - no matter how we may see it as right or wrong. The SHR characters are all quite grayish, not without their reasons to do what they are doing. 

People may hate Yeonhwa but I would rather blame that to her childhood, when the family was pushed to the sidelines and they had to rely on Wang Wook's political marriage to get them back into the capital. I would say like her brother, Yeonhwa is insecure in her family standing and she wants power to avoid falling into bad times like before... She has no qualms using her brother or even So, as long as she gets what she wants - the end justifies the means. Like her brother, I feel sorry for her too. Their past may have made them weak to withstand pressure and to avoid that would be to avoid doing what is hard to do. They always choose the easy way out. 

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While waiting for tomorrow....tribute to WS-HS couple upcoming blooming romance (hopefully by ep 13) :)

Spoiler

5868e787e2eb1897393fd3be9295d10d.jpg

Beautiful Lotus blooming under twilight!!! ~ symbolism of WS's deep, pure and possessive love awaiting HS's love in return~

(though not under Eclipse) 

 

 

 

 

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I really wouldn't put much weight into that tweet. As someone said, the preview can be misleading. I would imagine the conversation being like this:

Soo: "Did you miss me?"

Wook: "I missed you everyday, but I cannot go against the King. Perhaps, it's better this way."  (I thought I heard him say something like that in the preview)

And he walks off, leaving Soo in tears.  This is double the betrayal and double the pain. Soo said that Wook will not betray her as long as he doesn't aim for the throne, and this is a straight contradiction to her words with Lady Oh. It shows Wook chose the throne over her, breaking her dreams/illusions of him, and also giving her a reason for his actions - closure. It will lead her to believe that he never loved her as much as she loved him and then she can finally let him go.

To be honest, it makes sense for Soo to reject So's proposal - she is not ready to let go of Wook yet because she's still trying to understand why things went the way they did. She did ask "Why?" during the rain scene." She placed her faith, dreams, and hopes in him. It's hard to accept and understand since it was so abrupt. Coupled with her loss of Lady Oh, which I'm sure she still feels responsible for. Yeah, girl needs time to heal. Yes, I believe her feelings are growing for So, but she can't  accept him into her heart unless she finds closure with Wook.

Bottom line is, we will see Soo accepting So in the later previews. They have a date coming up where she wears his hairpin (accepting him), and a mutual kiss. No doubt, the lines "If only we met in a different time and different place, how wonderful would it be?" are for him. Wook even sees her growing feelings for So, which makes him feel more insecure and hungrier for the throne. Because of that, he will distance himself further from Soo. So and Soo's love is slow burning, but it will be stronger than anything Wook and Soo had. The petty side of me said, "Aaha, at least Wook never got to kiss Soo!"

Our OTP is heading there, we just need a little more patience. :) 

Edited by SC Mel
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9 minutes ago, ruizaio said:

You're right. Wang So says, "Honor? She's being forced to marry a man old enough to be her father!"

I also want to point out that what Wang So says to Ji Mong when it's decided that she'll be in Damiwon (~56:07)is more like "You managed to keep her in the palace, eh?"

The verb he used is 주저앉히다 which is often used for frustrating someone's efforts, so I've seen other translations saying something about breaking her spirit, but in this case, it's more like "You made her squat down in the palace." Wang So knows that Ji Mong had a hand in keeping her around. 

 

Thank you. This was extremely helpful. We'll correct the subs. :)

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2 hours ago, chrissydiva said:

I notice that people indeed watch shows with different perspective and interpretation. Maybe because people are so used to korean standards drama where most of the time, the female lead barely even notice the second male lead.  So when they come across a show who breaks that mold, people who ships the OTP gets frustrated with the female lead because she's not moving at the pace they want cause her feelings be damned. I might still be influenced by the way American shows are written which portrays relationship a little more real than the bias views of kdramas though they have too many bed hopping for my taste sometimes. HS is just in no position to accept anybody right now seeing her current situation. She needs time to heal.  People think nothing really happened between SoSoo and it won't make sense if she "suddenly" falls for him out of nowhere, then I disagree. Maybe people are focusing on the flaws of the show too much hence why ignoring what's given to them as signs. Soo is attracted to So not as a friend but as a man.  It's been shown. Best example, the first makeup scene! Hello!!! Lol He pretty much confessed to her then in a So fashion that he definitely see her as woman and wanted her as such. She froze not knowing what to do. I'm pretty sure if it was Eun doing it, she would have kicked him because she just never saw him as a man. Then you see her reaction when he left the room, she was shaken not out of fear but because she knew that he affected her, her heart. Afterwards, she literally rushed to see the ritual and instead of at least looking at Wook once, we see her actively looking at So, her attention was on So. They even made a point to have Wook noticed it when he looked at her once he figured out that she was the one who helped him cover the scar. Then when So looked at her and smiled, she smiled back. Now, why would she? Shouldn't she feel uncomfortable about what he just told her? I questioned it more than her visions lol One of the reasons why I think those visions should have waited because it diverted the attention from what just happened few minutes earlier. So is definitely way ahead of her because he is pretty much a newbie at this. Soo is his first love, but he's not Soo's because she experienced relationship not once, but twice already and she was burned both times. To expect her to just jump in his arms when she barely even registered everything that happens is asking too much. I love So as the next person but not everything is about him and his pain lol 

This is definitely like the Stelena/Delena triangle. Elena hated Damon because well dude was actually killing people for kicks unlike So, so the hate was understandable lol Then they build this unconventional friendship when she started to look at him with different eyes . She was clearly attracted to him even though she was madly in love with Stefan. But the attraction was there so when she moved to from one brother to the other, it wasn't like the viewers thought it came out of nowhere. The only thing is that I didn't like what they used as the final catalyst to break Stelena  up in order to move her to Damon so she didn't look like a two timer. At least, they did it better in ML, no need to turn Soo into a vampire lol. Anyway, my point is the romance between SoSoo has always been there and shown, is just that it's not the one people are used to get for the main couple. I still take their development over Wook/Soo any day. It feels more real to me. At least, Wook didn't get to kiss her like in Jealousy Incarnate lol

@chrissydivaI was waiting for someone to say this since you expressed what I wanted to say better than I would have. Thank you. It happens  in real life too, not just in dramas that one could be strongly attracted to another even while in commitment with someone. The question then becomes.... how strong is the commitment of both parties to their partnership? And it is true that one can't just jump from one relationship to another, however one must be brave to clarify ones mind, ones situation. In the case of this drama Hae Soo has to realize that it is not about the 2 men or any man vying for her but it is about her, what does she really want. One might say she is confused. In the surface she might but deep in her subconscious if she dives down there she will know the answer. It might not be right away since she has to go through a process of facing and clearing many painful revelations about herself and her relationships. But when she bravely confronts those ugly painful truths then she would be able to see clearly what is it that she really wants and make peace with it.....  (fill in the blanks Soo) kekeke

So what I really hope Soo will ask Wook is not the superficial "did you miss me" which will get her a superficial "i miss you all the time" ughhh.... But just like his sweet little sister YH confronted Wook about his ambition, Soo should ask the question she really wanted an answer to, which is..... "why did you abandon me?" Wook may hum and hoe and make excuses but anything he will say will confirm to HS what she already knows that he turned his back on her.   

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tomorrow willbe hard at work, I only will come for recap

I think preview is misleading. I can think basing of HS state of lip cure she will recover, then speak to WS in peckled kiss scene, then be thrown of palace, then WW talk to her, then time lap, then dont know what

waiting is hard

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Hello chingus,

about Soo not getting closure with her relationship with WW, and rejecting WS again,  I have 2 theories.

Theory N° 1: The girl is sent back in time, to the harsh Goryeo dynasty  , to learn that "action speak louder than any words".  She still can not believe that gentle and caring Wook would easily turn his back to her in her most difficult time. Who would ? It is not easy to forget and erase the image she had of him just because he didn't stand by her on that damned day, when she lost her beloved Lady Oh. WW gave her an image about how responsible and trust worthy , when he was married to Lady Hae. She said it in the first episode, she wanted to trust him, too. After her break up with her boyfriend in 2016 and being betrayed by him and her best friend Soo /HJ wanted to find a person , she could trust again, so that she wouldn't lose faith in humans. It won't be easy for her to face that she failed once again to find a person worth her trust and faith. She putted so much hope in Wook and she was all wrong about him. She needs time to digest the truth about his betrayal to her. As so many of you guys said, she needs to hear his excuses and decide wether to accept what he did to her or move on. She need to talk with Wook and make up her mind about him, before she ever thinks about getting in any kind of new relationship. 

Theory N° 2: after losing Lady Oh , HS is feeling guilty about her death. She will associate the misfortune to any of the princes and people she loves, including WS of course, to herself. Maybe that's why she is distancing herself from them all and won't accept WS's proposal, in this critical time. She is putting their safety and happiness before her own comfort and profit. When she was given a second chance to live, all she wanted to do is to survive. That was her main goal. After all,  by living  as a laundry lady and not getting involved with the royals at all, she could achieve that goal.

However WS  won't let her off easily. That's why we may see her yelling at him to leave her alone. Because he is making it hard for her to ignore him and just live quietly as a laundry lady.  After Taejo's death and CP becoming the king , WS will continue his loyalty to the CP and might save him again and serve him with dedication, when CP will ask him , if he could grant him any wish, WS will ask him to bring back HS to the palace .  She will end up in the palace again and won't be able to resist WS's temptation anymore.  She will finally surrender.  LOL at this point of my theories I might conclude my story by saying that  HS is one hell of hard to get girl !

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