[Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner

[bebebisous33]

@wordsmyth0253 Thanks for the translation!! So here we have our second proposal. Now, let's compare it to Wang Wook's proposal.  Ready to read a long post?

First the similarities: Both princes offer her marriage for a purpose, although they both love her.

Wang Wook proposes to her because he is afraid that he might lose her to Wang So. But Hae Soo is unaware of his true intention. So his marriage proposal looks like a marriage of love. Here it is important to notice that he gives her the impression that he loves her and she believes him. Therefore she wants to accept his offer. Yet his motive is really selfish. He is jealous. She belongs to him, noone can have her.

On the other hand, Wang So proposes to her so that she can finally leave the palace / musuri. He doesn't say that he loves her because to him, it is clear that he loves her. Yet, Hae Soo only hears it as a business deal. Since Wang So is not a romantic man, he gets to the point: he would like her to escape her terrible situation. Her refusal makes sense because for her, marriage is connected to love. What she is overlooking is that the first proposal had never been a gesture out of love, but out of jealousy and possessivness, while the other might not look like it, but the proposal is a true sign of love. It shows concern and worries. He will do anything to help her. He is not scared to lose his position or his reputation. However, Wang So doesn't want to underline the negative aspects of such a marriage.

Then we have to compare the location of the proposal: the first took place in the cavern, it was a secret and hidden place. Wang Wook was acting behind people's back. Striking is that he never told Hae Soo about the consequences of their secret meetings. She could have died: lady Oh mentioned it, when they got caught. And here, we see the difference. Wang Wook is the one who will hide the truth and reality from Hae Soo. He endangered her life and never dared to mention it. Wang Wook's proposal in the cavern illustrates his hypocrisie: he proposes to her but it's not a sure thing because he keeps it hidden. Moreover, he waits for a long time because he wants to ask his father for her hand. 

As for Wang So, the proposal happens in the open. He doesn't care if they are observed or not. This shows his true intention and his honesty.

Third, the words underline the difference of Wang So's and Wang Wook's personality. Wang So is not really asking Hae Soo ("let's get married"). Since he is a man of action, his words reflect this aspect of his personality. He wants to do it and he will do it. The problem is that by doing so, his words give the impression that it is an order, that Hae Soo has no other choice than to follow his order. His words make her feel as if she had no freedom at all and she feels not really respected. Nevertheless he is not mentioning the king in that matter. It's his intention to marry her and he doesn't feel the need to ask for his father's approval so that his proposal reveals how free Wang So feels with his proposal. He sees no pressure from his father. So his proposal is connected to freedom: Hae Soo's free will seems not to be respected and Wang So feels so free that he doesn't consider his father as a hindrance. Besides, Wang So's proposal also points out that he can't imagine that Hae Soo would refuse to marry it. Since he is such a realist and pragmatic person, he thinks, everyone in his right mind would accept his proposal: She escapes her prison and the mistreatement, improves her position aso. Why should she refuse?  Hae Soo has many reasons to refuse, but her answer reveal the true one: for her, it looks like an arranged marriage and it is not a marriage of love.

Unlike Wang So, Wang Wook asks her twice:

- Will you be my wife?

- Do you want to marry me?

He is asking for Hae Soo's opinion. Just like in their first meeting, Wang Wook gives her the impression that he gives her the choice. We know that Hae Soo loves freedom and is an independent woman and as such, she sees that Wang Wook is behaving like someone who respects her. On the other hand, Wang Wook is the one who mentions his father. He needs his father's approval underlining the aspect that he is not entirely free to marry her. There is a condition to it. Compared to Wang So who just like in their first meeting who saved her without asking for trust, Wang Wook is in the end the one who is under pressure. He is not proposing out of his free will but because he is under pressure. Wang So has become his rival and the other restrictions are his family and his father's approval. As we can see, Wang Wook makes it look like he respects Hae Soo, whereas his motives clearly reveal the opposite: He wants to possess her and he doesn't want to lose her. On the other hand, if Wang So hadn't acted like that, Wang Wook would have never proposed. The proposal was just a tool for him to keep Hae Soo by his side. Both proposals confirm the impression we had from Wang So and Wang Wook in the episode 1 (their meetings with Hae soo). Wang Wook is a man of words and empty promises but since he is acting as a caring and generous man, Hae Soo doesn't see him through, while the other prince is a man of action and he seems rude. He doesn't feel the need to ask. However, the real savior is Wang So, just like in the first episode. He will do anything to rescue Hae Soo. He doesn't care about rank, position aso.

Fourth, the last difference between the two proposals is Hae Soo's answer. In the first one, Hae Soo is hesitating and keeps questioning herself. This illustrates that deep down, she is unsure and wants to convince herself that she should accept his proposal: Won't he change?, will he treat me well?. Yet her questions reveal that this has nothing to do with love. Her thoughts only revolve around Wang Wook and her comfort. This proves to me that she is not really loving him. Thus Wang Wook notices her wavering so that he asks if she has a change of heart. By asking her like that, he is trying to make her feel guilty as if she was a person who would fall out of love so easily and she was not loyal ("she doesn't want to stay by his side"). She has to reassure him but in the end, her words are a way to convince herself, she is a good and faithful person. However, after confirming that she loves him, wang Wook wants to kiss her so that the deal is sealed. Kiss = she has now accepted his proposal. But both are interrupted by lady Oh so that Wang Wook doesn't hear the answer to his proposal. Only later, we hear from Hae Soo, that she thinks, she will accept his marriage offer. In reality, Wang Wook is not really sure that she has accepted his proposal.

Striking is that when Wang So proposed to her, Hae Soo answers quite quickly. She has no hesitation. Wang So is disappointed, but at least he knows where he stands and he needs to do more in order to convince her to be his person. The lack of her hesitation compared to Wook's proposal shouldn't be considered that she has no feeling for Wang So. In fact, her refusal proves to me that she can't accept his offer because it looks like an arranged marriage. Like she says, she doesn't want to marry to leave the palace. So she wants to get married because she loves that person. Moreover, the proposal is witnessed by Wang Wook which is interesting as he can notice the difference of Hae Soo's reaction compared to her behaviour in the cavern. Actually, he could be happy because Hae Soo refused Wang So's offer. So Hae Soo has not left his side. Yet he gets mad because he is so jealous of Wang So. He envies Wang So for being so carefree as he doesn't care about his reputation or his position or his family or his father. Deep down, he wishes, he could be like that.

Finally, the viewer can observe another difference: Wang So gives her the hairpin and his gesture reveals his true feelings. He is giving his heart to her with this hairpin. His words might make him look like an autoritar person (he uses the imperativ form!), but his action proves the opposite. But Hae Soo doesn't understand it. For her, words are so important, that's why she believed Wang Wook so easily. Wang Wook didn't give her anything in the cavern, he only gave her empty words and an empty promise. Hae Soo's problem is that she paies more attention to words than actions. However, she will change.    

That's it, I hope, you enjoyed reading the comparison.  

@chi13lou

 @UnniSarah@adijnpu @solelylurking

@fathiayunia @dramu51ch0c10ve @ktcjdrama

@syeramy @littleloony @Yongzura @valsava  @junee22 @evie7

[atgirlina]

40 minutes ago, freckledbelle said:

Dear Hae Soo, 

You need to wake up and realise how much Wang So love you. Tsk! Tsk! Tsk!

Love,

freckledbelle of soompi

 

                                                                              

Forgive me. My kids are having their swimming lessons and i am here trying not to think too much about the episode tonight. So many vids and articles and pics that show HS as a martyr. This drama is a torture. But i love it, them, too. Sigh.

second your letter dear @freckledbelle

anyone have here have hae soo sns? so we can post it up her account.

[littleloony]

Okay so I couldn't resist giving my opinion too on the new marriage proposal preview

First- Hae Su looks dazed and incredibly lost in her thoughts when So kind of swoops down on her with the "Let's get married". So unfortunately I think the timing for the proposal will be bad so that HS will not be in a mind to even consider it properly. The way she thrusts the hair pin back into So's hands....its as if she is afraid again to have any intimate contact with him. I wanna know what precedes this scene to make her act like that.

As for So, I think he will be prompted to ask her about marrying primarily seeing her hardship or some such unfortunate event. It will be his way of removing her from that misery/ hardship and keeping her safe and comfortable. He loves Su, but from the way he proposed it felt more like he was doing it for her and not for him i.e. romantic obsession or imposition doesn't seem to be his objective. He just wants Hae Su not to suffer anymore. I don't think he is even actively trying to sway her heart.

Lastly Wook, woohoo! I love the pathetic and dangerous him now. He is giving himself up to various negative aspects of his character and showing it. I am rubbing my hands in glee at the confrontation b/w Wook and So   That sneer and contempt So showed was just tooo goood

[chelseaharu]

29 minutes ago, Para12012 said:

How the hell can WW blame WS for HS misfortune when his sister was the one who started this entire thing because he wanted to marry HS and give up on becoming King? Then, he decided to side with his family and turn his back on HS. Don't get me wrong, I don't blame him for choosing his family. Unlike WS his family has been there for him and loves him. But where the heck does he get off!!!! 

He need to learn how to give credit to whom credit due.

Wrong person wook. Be ashamed be really ashamed if you are a man uk!

I thought wangso proposed to haesoo when he said I missed you, let's get married during this backhug scene. Did she reject him twice. If I was wangso, I probably crying on the floor already because of my onesided feeling. 

Fighting So. I am on your side. Don't give up your love 

 

[sunshinefate]

37 minutes ago, EclipseWF said:

Sorry this thread is moving at lightspeed and I apologise if I'm repeating someone else's points *bow*

The 'rumours' or 'synopsis' of HS still pinning for WW is making me want to drink poison and puke blood.

The uselessness of the King is also making me want to drink poison and puke blood. (Yes I understand his actions and he's doing it for the CP yada yada yada but he has got to be the most useless character in the drama. He's almost as useful as a solar powered torch.)

I really hope the drama picks up the pace, a rushed ending would also want to make me drink poison and puke blood.

And on a totally different note, if I were to be transported back in time into an era which is like the setting of Scarlet Heart Ryeo, I will really just drink an entire pot of poison, then puke blood.

Basically end up like this:

It's the same case with me. Reading the text preview earlier about hs still pining for wook made my blood boil. It's part of the writer's fault. Of course he/she had to know that 4th prince was the male lead character, therefore he/she should have known how to writer his/her story about 4th better. The wook/haesoo story IMO, should have been written off at the latest around 10th episode. And at the 12th, she/he should have written about Hae Soo accepting WS and the deepening feelings of her to him. Not that I'm trying to be a writer or belittling the writer as I don't even have the rights to do so. I'm just sharing about my opinions. The viewers will start growing tired of the repeating scenes of her rejecting So as if he is the second made lead. If he, in the 1st place, was a 2nd male lead, then all this rejections from HS was acceptable. However,come on, he's the male lead with all his flawless acting. Thank God that this was preproduced or else, I don't know how WS's character would be written.

[yuhotarubi]

Wow WW, just Wow, so WS is the one responsible for the misery HS is living in huh ? Somebody give me a sword so I can slash this miserable hypocrite, did he totally forget or decided to forget that it was his sister who put the effing poison in there ? With the help of queen Yoo of course. Or is he in denial ! Convincing himself he did nothing wrong ? It's a good thing WS answered right back that he gave him everything he needed to reveal the truth, and yet look at what hapenned. WW has no right whatsoever to even feel jealous that HS has someone who loves her. I can't wait for the day she'll put him in his place and walk away on him. 

[atgirlina]

27 minutes ago, tanaqvi said:

Today I only an look through thread on mobile, signal low, so only see texts 

seriously, ppl, ratings in Wikipedia are just average or same to LJG previous dramas , why worry about? It is his star hour now with all his improved acting and good looks here 

MLSHR is LJG best little screen work for sure, and we will definitely see him again, he for sure will get other lead roles after this

and about profits: a lot of Korean actors now try their best to win over Chinese market, and they get there much more money, then in Korea (rain, for example), China is huge, they film dramas totally oriented to Chinese or even totally unshown in Korea 

and one more. Everybody here knows one or more gem dramas, under appreciated in Korea.  Rating isn't all to it

for example you can see "heart to heart" and look through soompi to read their articles about that. Rating were poor, but drama was GREAT, I can still rewatch it anytime, I get pleasure from its sincerity and surprising warmth ( kisses were great too, btw).

so let's enjoy, ratings do not speak of drama that much, to judge is it good or bad, and good rating not always go with drama worth watching too

you can bet many here pay attention to ratings not because we think low ratings means bad drama. we buzz about it because we think it's such great drama so it deserved a better ratings. i stopped paying attention to low ratings in korea when i pick which drama i watch.

low ratings may not affect how we watch a drama, but it affect the drama productions and it actors. whether the actors get more offers or whether a pd or a writer get another job offer. being praised by critiques maybe one thing, but as a money making effort, it it doesn't sell well, a tv broadcaster may think twice before producing such drama again.

 

[sunshinefate]

3 minutes ago, yuhotarubi said:

Wow WW, just Wow, so WS is the one responsible for the misery HS is living in huh ? Somebody give me a sword so I can slash this miserable hypocrite, did he totally forget or decided to forget that it was his sister who put the effing poison in there ? With the help of queen Yoo of course. Or is he in denial ! Convincing himself he did nothing wrong ? It's a good thing WS answered right back that he gave him everything he needed to reveal the truth, and yet look at what hapenned. WW has no right whatsoever to even feel jealous that HS has someone who loves her. I can't wait for the day she'll put him in his place and walk away on him. 

I hope they stay true with the background music of that scene as it will make the scene much more intense along with the awesome acting between the 2 actors.

[hellostargazers57]

2 hours ago, UnniSarah said:

@wordsmyth0253... Thanks translation on the fly ....Calling all Chingu. I am a bit confused, WHY DOES WW KEEP BLAMING WS??? I THOUGHT THE REASON HS WAS TARGETED WAS BECAUSE OF WW. BECAUSE WW WANTED TO MARRY HS. WW's sister was the one who provided the poison and made sure HS was the one who poored the tea so can be be hung for attempted murder /poisoning the CP. Is WW really blaming him because he believes what he is saying or it is just guilt. My blood is boiling by what's i just read. 

 

I love your opinion but i also laugh see your last words, my blood is boiling too....i think that's why in the end Wang So want to kill many people there, they make his blood boiling with stupid words and act. Wang Wook is jealous to Wang So but he also can't doing anything for Hae Soo, what Wang Wook can do is only blame Wang So, arghh...

[enigmatic_zephy]

Can HS put end to all rubbish and just go figure out the solution to going back to 21st century with JM..

 

Everything else is pointless..

And if they can figure out the portal.. then start sending refugees  from goryeo to now

(* population explosion of today's world)

[syeramy]

After watching the 2nd preview..

Now, I found it interesting that WS wants everything run very fast as long as HS with him. The other one I notice that she gave back the hairpin, and according to the first preview, we could see that WS will give the hairpin back to HS with a bonus. 

I'm totally understand why HS has to reject the proposal. The girl still in shocked. She has to think a lot of things. She has to collect herself after what had happened. She had been proposed by WW before, and she saw how WW turned his back when she needs him the most. Second proposal already? She hesitates to accept, because she saw how one person can change and she needs to protect her heart first. But girl, don't play around the bushes too long. WS needs you and you need WS. Get yourself together. 

[Gabi Bros]

Wang Wook irritates me so much…  I won't talk about Hae Soo again until watching the episode.  

[qwenli]

Wow, now they even releasing the scene between WS HS n WW to hook viewers.

Why can't hs love ws already.waeeeeeeee. how long is the hairpin going back n forth. Does WS carry the pokey pin in his pocket everywhere? 

The longer the wait, the hotter to mutual reciprocation is it? When it becomes mutual maybe my TV will explode?

@enigmatic_zephy yes totally agree with u why hs doesn't bother about going back. That bugged me in the c version too. But in the c version, the 4th actually gave her a wise wisdom to go with the flow. I wished the k version had put that back.  

[chi13lou]

12 minutes ago, bebebisous33 said:

@wordsmyth0253 Thanks for the translation!! So here we have our second proposal. Now, let's compare it to Wang Wook's proposal.  Ready to read a long post?

First the similarities: Both princes offer her marriage for a purpose, although they both love her.

Wang Wook proposes to her because he is afraid that he might lose her to Wang So. But Hae Soo is unaware of his true intention. So his marriage proposal looks like a marriage of love. Here it is important to notice that he gives her the impression that he loves her and she believes him. Therefore she wants to accept his offer. Yet his motive is really selfish. He is jealous. She belongs to him, noone can have her.

On the other hand, Wang So proposes to her so that she can finally leave the palace / musuri. He doesn't say that he loves her because to him, it is clear that he loves her. Yet, Hae Soo only hears it as a business deal. Since Wang So is not a romantic man, he gets to the point: he would like her to escape her terrible situation. Her refusal makes sense because for her, marriage is connected to love. What she is overlooking is that the first proposal had never been a gesture out of love, but out of jealousy and possessivness, while the other might not look like it, but the proposal is a true sign of love. It shows concern and worries. He will do anything to help her. He is not scared to lose his position or his reputation. However, Wang So doesn't want to underline the negative aspects of such a marriage.

Then we have to compare the location of the proposal: the first took place in the cavern, it was a secret and hidden place. Wang Wook was acting behind people's back. Striking is that he never told Hae Soo about the consequences of their secret meetings. She could have died: lady Oh mentioned it, when they got caught. And here, we see the difference. Wang Wook is the one who will hide the truth and reality from Hae Soo. He endangered her life and never dared to mention it. Wang Wook's proposal in the cavern illustrates his hypocrisie: he proposes to her but it's not a sure thing because he keeps it hidden. Moreover, he waits for a long time because he wants to ask his father for her hand. 

As for Wang So, the proposal happens in the open. He doesn't care if they are observed or not. This shows his true intention and his honesty.

Third, the words underline the difference of personality of Wang Wook and Wang So. Wang So is not really asking Hae Soo ("let's get married"). Since he is a man of action, his words reflect this aspect of his personality. He wants to do it and he will do it. The problem is that by doing so, his words give the impression that it is an order, that Hae Soo has no other choice than to follow his order. His words make her feel as if she had no freedom at all and she feels not really respected. Moreover, he is not mentioning the king in that matter. It's his intention to marry her and he doesn't feel the need to ask for his father's approval so that his proposal reveals how free Wang So feels with his proposal. He sees no pressure from his father. So his proposal is connected to freedom: Hae Soo's free will seems not to be respected and Wang So feels so free that he doesn't consider his father as a hindrance. Besides, Wang So's proposal also points out that he can't imagine that Hae Soo would refuse to marry it. Since he is such a realist and pragmatic person, he thinks, everyone in his right mind would accept his proposal: She escapes her prison and the mistreatement, improves her position aso. Why should she refuse?  Hae Soo has many reasons to refuse, but her answer reveal the true one: for her, it looks like an arranged marriage and it is not a marriage of love.

Unlike Wang So, Wang Wook asks her twice:

- Will you be my wife?

- Do you want to marry me?

He is asking for Hae Soo's opinion. Just like in their first meeting, Wang Wook gives her the impression that he gives her the choice. We know that Hae Soo loves freedom and is an independent woman and as such, she sees that Wang Wook is behaving like someone who respects her. On the other hand, Wang Wook is the one who mentions his father. He needs his father's approval underlining the aspect that he is not entirely free to marry her. There is a condition to it. Compared to Wang So who just like in their first meeting who saved her without asking for trust, Wang Wook is in the end the one who is under pressure. He is not proposing out of his free will but because he is under pressure. Wang So has become his rival and the other restrictions are his family and his father's approval. As we can see, Wang Wook makes it look like he respects Hae Soo, whereas his motives clearly reveal the opposite: He wants to possess her and he doesn't want to lose her. On the other hand, if Wang So hadn't acted like that, Wang Wook would have never proposed. The proposal was just a tool for him to keep Hae Soo by his side. Both proposals confirm the impression, we had from Wang So and Wang Wook in the episode 1 (their meetings with Hae soo). Wang Wook is a man of words and empty promises but he gives the impression that he is caring and generous, while the other prince is a man of action and doesn't feel the need to ask. However, the real savior is Wang So, just like in the first episode. He will do anything to rescue Hae Soo. He doesn't care about rank, position aso.

Fourth, the last difference between the two proposal is Hae Soo's answer. In the first one, Hae Soo is hesitating and keeps questioning herself. This illustrates that deep down, she is unsure and wants to convince herself that she should accept his proposal: Won't he change?, will he treat me well?. Yet her questions reveal that this has nothing to do with love. Her thoughts only revolve around Wang Wook and her comfort. This proves to me that she is not really loving him. Thus Wang Wook notices her wavering so that he asks if she has a change of heart. By asking her like that, he is trying to make her feel guilty as if she was a person who would fall out of love so easily and she was not loyal ("she doesn't want to stay by his side"). She has to reassure him but in the end, her words are a way to convince herself, she is a good and faithful person. However, after confirming that she loves him, wang Wook wants to kiss her so that the deal is sealed. Kiss = she has now accepted his proposal. But both are interrupted by lady Oh so that Wang Wook doesn't hear the answer to his proposal. Only later, we hear from Hae Soo, that she thinks, she will accept his marriage offer. In reality, Wang Wook is not really sure that she has accepted his proposal.

Striking is that when Wang So proposed to her, Hae Soo answers quite quickly. She has no hesitation. Wang So is disappointed, but at least he knows where he stands and he needs to do more in order to convince her to be his person. The lack of her hesitation compared to Wook's proposal shouldn't be considered that she has no feeling for Wang So. In fact, her refusal proves to me that she can't accept his offer because it looks like an arranged marriage. Like she says, she doesn't want to marry to leave the palace. So she wants to get married because she loves that person. Moreover, the proposal is witnessed by Wang Wook which is interesting as he can notice the difference of Hae Soo's reaction compared to her behaviour in the cavern. Actually, he could be happy because Hae Soo refused Wang So's offer. So Hae Soo has not left his side. Yet he gets mad because he is so jealous of Wang So. He envies Wang So for being so carefree as he doesn't care about his reputation or his position or his family or his father. Deep down, he wishes, he could be like that.

Finally, the viewer can observe another difference: Wang So gives her the hairpin and his gesture reveals his true feelings. He is giving his heart to her with this hairpin. His words might make him look like an autoritar person (he uses the imperativ form!), but his action proves the opposite. But Hae Soo doesn't understand it. For her, words are so important, that's why she believed Wang Wook so easily. Wang Wook didn't give her anything in the cavern, he only gave her empty words and an empty promise. Hae Soo's problem is that she paies more attention to words than actions. However, she will change.    

That's it, I hope, you enjoyed reading the comparison.  

@chi13lou

 @UnniSarah@adijnpu @solelylurking

@fathiayunia @dramu51ch0c10ve @ktcjdrama

@syeramy @littleloony @Yongzura @valsava  @junee22 @evie7

The best, teachernim!

In order save myself from the insanity this drama has brought to my life (like it is their fault that I am watching LOL), what I hope to see is this - since HS is more into words than actions, she should just stick to WW, utter the words "How wonderful it would have been if we met in a different world, different period," and then just watch WS marry YH. They meet once again in 2016 but since modern WW is already her boyfriend, she will once turn down modern WS. It will be an EPIC love story that truly transcends time but never came to fruition.

[chelseaharu]

14 minutes ago, syeramy said:

Second proposal already? She hesitates to accept, because she saw how one person can change and she needs to protect her heart first. But girl, don't play around the bushes too long. WS needs you and you need WS. Get yourself together. 

I think after the second proposal she will meet wook and ask him if he misses her. In the preview near the like at night when he said he misses her and she cried. Wook wear his prince uniform just like in this new preview where he blame wangso. I will hate uk less if he stop wangso from pursuing haesoo by admitting that he is her lover and he should be the one to marry her and get her out of slavery. But the way he blame So when he clearly know that So is the one who fight the most for haesoo safety while putting his life on the line just make me mad. Also wook doesn't provide solution on how to help haesoo from bully. When jung ask him 'are you going to leave haesoo like this.' He just said he can't go against the king and risk his life. His character is so frustrating. What he really want actually. Does he even care about haesoo well being. He have no intention to help her out but won't let anyone else to help her too. 

[enigmatic_zephy]

I want steamy scenes for 13tha nd WH .

They are literally the most good looking sizzling steamy hot couple.. both in goryeo sense and i mean all are grt.. LJk is hot.. but NM and SH are like ultimate pretty  

i want their scenes n there r no scenes.. 3 sec in 1 hr show

 

**********

yest was amrathoning cheese, NM looks so so so much sexier in Scarlet.. he looked good in cheese but not as much.. and def looked his worst in school 2015

[TAoJC]

I can't keep up with you guys anymore :(((  and life is getting more in the way too  !

Anyway D-DAY !!!! Poor Soo she's really in a tough position ! Not only she's living in another world, but she's also getting tortured, rejected wouaaaaah ! I could not survive if I was her !! 

[40somethingahjumma]

6 hours ago, Hanazumi said:

The Goryeo era is not the 21st century and this is a drama. Back when it's Goryeo's time, the difference between life and death is a just a fine line. I think all the characters are victims of the system, of the structure back then. Each character is in a cage looking for a way to open the door to freedom, to fly high and spread their wings (living with their ideals). 

While I agree that all these members of royalty and nobility were prisoners of the system in which they lived and laboured, they also perpetuated the system with their schemes. Take the king for example. Though he is king, he is also subject to the laws of the land and all the political machinations of the people around him. However as we saw in the last episode he is also guilty of perpetuating that very system. He probably did have suspicions as to who the real culprit was but there was no proof. Since Su was the last person to touch the tea, she's the obvious suspect. Everyone probably has a good idea as to who was really behind it but apparently in Goryeo court, they actually believe in the rule of evidence even if they don't hold to the principle of "innocent until proven guilty". It is a highly unjust situation but the king has no qualms throwing Su under the bus... why? Because he thinks there are larger issues at stake that trump justice. Or at best, justice is only for the "big" people. Su is a nobody, the Crown Prince is a somebody in the overall scheme of things in his kingly mind. I think it's very telling that he considers the Crown Prince his "only" son... someone who is his only true heir to his values and even character. He wants to leave behind a legacy and he doesn't trust anyone but the CP to do the job. So his priority is to protect the CP first and foremost, everyone else is expendable. His hands maybe tied but leaving them tied is his choice. It's the same as Queen Yu. On some level she might think of herself as a "victim" of a loveless union with the king or as a woman she's stuck in such a narrowly defined space. But in (between drinking tea and having baths) her spare time she hatches plots to undermine the CP and eliminate him. Why? Because she wants to control the seat of power... which is the throne. If she can't sit in it herself, she's got her puppet waiting in the wings to make it happen. 

None of these people are actually interested in changing things to make things more "fair". "Fairness" only matters when there's something they can benefit from it. (Sadly after a thousand years, it's still pretty much the same)

I think your general point is an important point, one that I have made over and over again. We should really be careful about using our own limited understanding based on our own modern beliefs to understand these characters. We also have to remember that how these people view freedom and family is very, very different to how we view those entities in our 21st century context.

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It's clear to me at least that for all our characters that family is a fluid term and doesn't reflect the way we think of it in our time. When Uk chooses to protect Yeon Hwa it's not because he loves her and feels especially attached to her. So when he "chooses" family, it's not the same as when I give up my job to stay home with the kids. When he "chooses" family, it means he chooses to use them as a vehicle for his future success. In the same way Yeon Hwa chooses to implicate Su in a conspiracy not because she "loves" her brother but because he is for her, a woman who has very little recourse, a means of security and protection. Whether she "loves" him is irrelevant. That's why she had to wake his dormant ambition... that's why he thanked her for doing it. To remind him of what his priorities should be. He sealed the deal by killing the maid because he needs to be committed to the entire process and demonstrate to his sister his commitment to it as well as getting her cooperation.

There is nothing sentimental about Uk choosing his family here. The fact that Yeon Hwa appealed to his ambition not to his finer feelings should tell us everything we need to know about this transaction. We mustn't forget that he was ready to up and leave for Hwangju to marry Su at one stage. Why didn't he prioritise his family then? Because it didn't fit in with his agenda at the time. If family was really as important to him as an operating principle, he would never have promised marriage to Su because he would have known that his sister would never approve of it and marrying Su would not promote the family's welfare. He probably also had an inkling that the king wouldn't be too approving either. Making the decision to marry Su was a kneejerk reaction... I don't think we should ever forget that. Yeon Hwa confronting him that night helped him to recalibrate his thinking.

I know Uk has his hearty defenders here. But it isn't a matter about liking him or hating him. That is irrelevant. It's about judging a person based on the kinds of standards he claims to hold to but fall short on. It suits him to be critical of So but in the end he is the one who falls short.

My observation is that some are is still holding on to the image that Uk is cute and cuddly and that is his default. Actually no... his default is the exact opposite. The killing of the maid... that was him.

I am very critical of Uk but I don't hate him. In some ways he is pitiful because he sees his life as a series of obligations. Where is the joy in that? However, there are serious inconsistencies in his character that I can't overlook... especially they don't fit into the sweet gentleman image he projects. That's the part that I've believed is worth dissecting.

Feeling sorry for Uk is fine but don't feel too sorry for him. Because it isn't because he didn't have a choice at all. He had choices (limited as they may have been) and he made his. He chose to protect his ambition, he chose to kill the palace maid, he chose to cover for his sister to protect said ambition, he chose to do nothing to support Su when he made grandiose promises to do so because in the end the ambition trumped any affection he had for Su. In the end he plays the game just as much as anyone else.

[bebebisous33]

1 minute ago, chi13lou said:

The best, teachernim!

In order save myself from the insanity this drama has brought to my life (like it is their fault that I am watching LOL), what I hope to see is this - since HS is more into words than actions, she should just stick to WW, utter the words "How wonderful it would have been if we met in a different world, different period," and then just watch WS marry YH. They meet once again in 2016 but since modern WW is already her boyfriend, she will once turn down modern WS. It will be an EPIC love story that truly transcends time but never came to fruition.

No, her travel to the past should be considered as a voyage of initiation (initiatory journey!!) meaning that through her experiences, she will change and grow. Moreover, she keeps saying that she wants to forget and her words reflect that she is still refusing to learn from her bad experiences. By forgetting she wants to deny the existence of the bad experiences. She hates change and she is scared of change. Therefore she asked herself by Wang Wook's proposal: 

- Won't he change?

- Will he treat me well?

However, Hae Soo is changing and she will change even more because on the other hand Wang So will never change and keep confronting her with reality and his love for her. The future Hae Jin will be a new woman, a woman who can separate appearance and reality / seeming and real. Wook might appear as a good person but he is not. Yet Hae Soo has already started changing because she was able to see the good in Wang So, whereas noone was able to do it. 

[chi13lou]

24 minutes ago, kilovekyo said:

 

I love your opinion but i also laugh see your last words, my blood is boiling too....i think that's why in the end Wang So want to kill many people there, they make his blood boiling with stupid words and act. Wang Wook is jealous to Wang So but he also can't doing anything for Hae Soo, what Wang Wook can do is only blame Wang So, arghh...

Because WW is just being himself, a man of words! At least I can't fault him for being consistent.LOL