[Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner

[sriskaddict 1,120]

wow thread is on fire. BTW putting dialogue about killing part aside, did u guys notice he also said to his " u noticed/knew for who i am" or something like that. So he is not going to pretend. I didn't quite understand what he meant by that?

 

Got the dialog "u saw me for what I was. There was no need for explanation or excuses"

Can someone explain this to me

[enigmatic_zephy 14,807]

29 minutes ago, thenagain said:

 

I really disagree the writer has been very clear about WS and his character. I just think So's definition of love is so twisted and different than ours that it's hard to understand.   @sriskaddict said it best when they said  "So is not a knight in shining armor - he is a man who will kill 20 people for a mother that doesn't even love him." Wang So is so starved for love that he takes even the smallest demonstration of attention or care and magnifies its importance.  It's not just Hae Soo - he did the same thing to Baek Ah as well.. To So there is no difference between love and friendship - he can't tell the difference between them. to him anyone that shows him a basic level of kindnesses he will immediately gravitate towards He would die for them. He doesn't care if that person loves him back - he just wants to be by their side. Look at how he constantly fights for his mother's love- he protects her by giving her advice not to argue with Lady Oh, he eagerly goes to dinner with his mother after the rain ceremony hoping she's changed. Their interactions seem tragic and desperate because they are. Wang So is a lost soul struggling to find a reason to carry on. To this man with nothing and no one, Hae Soo has become everything. The only thing that's keeping him upright. Even if she doesn't love him he can accept that. What he can't abide is anyone that tries to take away the last positive force in his life.

Regarding the killing aspect, WS's character is completely out of context. I can't find one instance show to us or one trait shown to us where he would suggest such a preposterous thing. And worse, the moment these words are said, his love loses credibility...HS's love towards him loses credibility..their being together loses the charm of a true love story

[fuyukoneko 2,018]

1 hour ago, inner said:

Hi,  Eun had said something about HaeSoo 's speech to him about waiting until the first snow or something when he was in the bedroom with his wife.  What did he mean? I don't understand that bit. Can someone explain? Thanks.

 

In episode 7, HS said if he left the orange nail polish on until the first snow, his first love will come to him

[enigmatic_zephy 14,807]

20 minutes ago, UnniSarah said:

@enigmatic_zephy..... Chingu , I see what you are saying chingu.   Wang So's ruthlessness is something I have come to just accept because of his upbringing. Wang So was never taught how to love, compassion or when to use his words. He grew up literally like scum. He never had a happy life and he always had to fight for what he wants. I don't agree with what he does but a part of me sees a little boy who just wants to be loved but doesn't know how to express it. Hae Soo may be able to help him see that there maybe other ways to communicate to people and to finally be seen in a different light than what they used to see. 

 

I understand that too.. That's why I say its lazy writing. In character would have been to tell her, that he will still pursue her, he will love her all his life or whatever... that killing part is what is bugging him.. that's not WS.. that's just plain lazy writing

[briseis 122,168]

   

   

   

   

   

“Shall we just run away? If you want to I wouldn’t mind.”

Source:http://dreamingsnowflake2013.tumblr.com/

[enigmatic_zephy 14,807]

9 minutes ago, trizha1 said:

 

Let's set aside the forced kiss from the last episode and his taking her for the illegal horse ride. I'm trying to figure out when WS forced himself emotionally and physically on HS. Before the whole visions shenanigans began, the split between HS seeking out WS or WS seeking out HS or whoever initiated conversation first was pretty even. Whatever emotional exchanges they had was a give and take. Even AFTER he brought her back to Damiwon and came to check on her the next day, WS wasn't the one to prolong their conversation. HS was the one who asked him to come into the make up room so they could talk. I don't see the forcing there. Agreed that when the King gave HS to WS it was in the context of a servant and not a lover, but he is unaware of their prior friendship. HS was never just a servant to WS. The only way I can see where you're coming from is if WS demanded HS love him or physically assaulted her which didn't happen this time.      

So chain of events is:

She is celebrating WE bday, he realizes he loves her. 

He wants to appear worthy in her eyes ( scar insult during bday and then temple). She realizes its his sore point. Helps him and that moment he is more sure than ever that he loves her and wants her. He tells her. She listens and realizes. And within hours or minutes she also realizes that  this very man is going to kill all of them whom she loves ( for her WS is not more special than 10th or 14th or 13th prince and def. 8th is the most important). Now she is scared. Within a day or two he forced kissed her because he was confused over her changed behavior. Then he confesses again.. with all his heart to make it once and final. She decides to take her stand and tells him its frndship from her end and she loves someone else. He tells her he will kill them. AND she knows he WILL kill them. Next day he comes to enquire abt him and she takes him to explain it again that she does not love him and he is confusing the feelings as her desperate attempt to 'calmly' sort out the situation.

As you point out, emotional give and take was balanced out. WS fell in love - is it HS's fault that he did? Is it HS's fault that she didn't? Is it HS's fault that she fell in love with someone else? Post that beach scene.. him not prolonging the conversation is a moot point? Did she prolong the conversation to flirt with him.. no.. she is in a dire situation and needs to sort this out without involving others or flaring this up.. she knows she is dealing with a bomb..because now she is not sure what may irk him and lead him to kill someone.. 

Telling her she is not allowed to love freely and wait for him..and threatening her to make it clear is FORCING. King has not given him right to her body or soul. What does he want when he says you are mine.. does he want her to be there for him.. ofc she is there for him.. no.. there is a definite romantic, secual, emotional dependence he is talking about.. that's private space.. and that woman is saying no to you. ( The same woman who cut herself because she didn't want to sleep with the king...)

When you tell someone you love them or that you want them to love them in return - you are ofcourse talking of both physical and emotional aspect. You are telling her to give up her body as well. Its implicit. And against wishes, even a touch can be of excruciating pain. and here its a woman who definitely has someone else in her heart.

 

Sorry, until I see the version where he said he's going to kill the man she loves and am sure nothing was lost in translation I'm not in agreement with your thought that she doesn't have a choice. My point is he's not forcing her to love him. He can pursue her all he wants, but at the end of the day, HS's feelings are her own and she DEFINITELY doesn't love him like that at this point. She sees him as a friend. And...uh..WS is totally in control of his own actions. He does have a choice, he DOES choose when and who to kill, we've seen that with the monks, and when he refused to kill the CP, so not sure where you're going there. 

That's a fair point. Because my entire disconnect hinges on the 'killing' statement. If he didn't say that.. then everything is irrelevant. I have already said, he can love her for all his whole life..for all i care.. love her protect her, care for her, cook for her..do whatever.. and he can also keep professing his love to her his whole life in hope she would change her mind someday.. BUT threatening her is a BIG NO..and even if she falls for him post threatening.. the love story loses its appeal..because it will always be a forced scenario and never a truly free will acceptance.

 

 

He might have said that, but in the end who was it riding off with her in the forest and trying to help her escape? And this was after the whipping scene...he might not have loved her then, but she definitely wasn't just some random person to him. 

 

 

[Gabi Bros 24,617]

15 minutes ago, enigmatic_zephy said:

I understand that too.. That's why I say its lazy writing. In character would have been to tell her, that he will still pursue her, he will love her all his life or whatever... that killing part is what is bugging him.. that's not WS.. that's just plain lazy writing

I feel the same. 

[40somethingahjumma 40,375]

I know that some people think that this is just some epic romance with a love triangle in it. I won't dispute that the romance is a major part of it but it isn't the only thing in this show. People are frustrated with Su... I am too to some extent but I also understand that change, especially change of mind and heart is extremely difficult. Impossible even. People don't change generally because of other people. They change because circumstances force them to.

I believe that's what's going on here.

To be frank, I don't think I really understood the role of the premonitions last week. But now having thought about it, I see them now primarily as part of Su's development and growth. I now think that they were necessary, not as a hurdle for the OTP so much but more as a shock to the system for her that the world that she thinks she knows is about to come crumbling down around her. Looking at it that way, I feel that I can understand her irrational reaction a lot more.

And quite honestly... it's been a long time in coming. Her view of the palace has been too rosy and really it's a dog eat dog world. She's been cocooned long enough and Uk quite unfortunately has aided and abetted in that. That fluffy, squishy romance is about to experience a huge kibosh, slicing and dicing it to bits. Unlike most people, I think it had to played out to its logical conclusion. The longer they were together, the more uncomfortable I became. Something was off after a while. And the cave is a brilliant metaphor for it.

So unless Su changes she cannot be with So.

This is what I think: The writer set up the romance as an archetypal modern romance. Swoony male lead that says all the right things, sweeping the girl off her feet. Now the writer is crucifying it. S/he burning it at the stake and saying that in Goryeo this kind of relationship cannot exist because it makes people fools. The writer wants to show us a different kind of romance... maybe the only kind of romance that is possible when schemes of violence are the order of the day. The only kind of romance that can exist between a 10th century man and a soon-to-be broken 21st century girl.

Bring it on, I say!

[enigmatic_zephy 14,807]

Hypothetical question

 

What i understand from sageuks is that when a prince or a nobleman is taken down (killed) , his entire household including servants etc are killed. because back in time, they are his people (loyal to him) and if left alive can plan a revolt.

 

So, if HS asks Wook to choose between throne and herself.. 

1. If Wook chooses HS - would that be a ethical choice?

2. If Wook doesn't choose HS - does that mean his love was true or that he wasn't serious about her?

[imposs90 201]

@bebebisous33

I like overall your points, however, although I don't understand Korean, the whole dialogue since last episode to the half of this episode revolves around "killing of wook from so". In the woods, her reaction was like "don't even talk to him or he will kill you", "don't contradict him now or he will kill you". What I love about Wook is that he is able to read Soo's eyes, fear, emotions, warnings,  [remembering what she said in ep 9 about Wang So] and act on them. He is highly receptive. 

She was too troubled to focus on any dark side reading of Wook. Hae Soo perception seems narrowed down only to So for some reason.

[andy78 137,217]

HS SEEMS HONEST...SHE TOLD HIM SHE LIKES A MAN...AT LEAST WAS HONEST WITH WS...I LIKED THAT ...COULD SOMEBODY TELL ME IF IN C VERSION RX CONFESSED 4TH PRINCE SHE LIKES A MAN ?

[addicted2drama 640]

i keep on refreshing ... to check if the subs are out 

[fuyukoneko 2,018]

6 minutes ago, andy78 said:

HS SEEMS HONEST...SHE TOLD HIM SHE LIKES A MAN...AT LEAST WAS HONEST WITH WS...I LIKED THAT ...COULD SOMEBODY TELL ME IF IN C VERSION RX CONFESSED 4TH PRINCE SHE LIKES A MAN ?

I don't think so. But Ruoxi and the 4th prince weren't friends the way HS and WS are. Ruoxi didn't really have any reason to tell him. Near the end of Chinese drama,  the 8th prince tell 4th prince about their relationship though.

[pujajain 543]

35 minutes ago, 40somethingahjumma said:

I will say something that might be controversial here but here we go: The person who needs to change here isn't him, it's HS... she's in Rome now not really doing what the Romans do but she still thinks she's in the 21st century, clutching on to her ideals and idealism. However, she is about to get a huge wake-up call and it's going to cost her big time. She will experience a huge paradigm shift

Completely agreed though in all fairness she has been thrust in a very unusual circumstances. 

I will also agree with another post where the writer mentioned that in original novel Ruoxi is well versed in this era and is capable of reading and interpreting subtle relationship nuances between all the players in the game of throne. It is also very clear early on that she is strong and her goal is to do the best to lessen heartbreak and survive once she realizes she might not be able to change things.

In contrast who it is hard to compare Soo who is holding onto her 21st ideals tightly and comes across as complete naive. You are right when you said she is served advise and information on a platter but she chooses not to internalize it and ends up risking herself and everyone around her. She believes that if So stays away from palace, he will have a nice quiet peaceful life....

[bebebisous33 117,046]

9 minutes ago, imposs90 said:

@bebebisous33

I like overall your points, however, although I don't understand Korean, the whole dialogue since last episode to the half of this episode revolves around "killing of wook from so". In the woods, her reaction was like "don't even talk to him or he will kill you", "don't contradict him now or he will kill you". What I love about Wook is that he is able to read Soo's eyes, fear, emotions, warnings,  [remembering what she said in ep 9 about Wang So] and act on them. He is highly receptive. 

She was too troubled to focus on any dark side reading of Wook. Hae Soo perception seems narrowed down only to So for some reason.

You're right. She was afraid of So's reaction, but also of Wang Wook's as well. I watched it a second time (meeting in the woods) and she was looking into Wang Wook's eyes. She saw his anger and was afraid of an escalading conflict. Yet, she only took it as a reaction caused by So... she didn't see his dark side as such.

[tessieroo 37,079]

1 hour ago, Diana Blanche said:

It seems like everyone hates Yeon Hwa after this episode, but I pity her. So how things are now Wang So will never love her. His heart belongs only to Hae Soo. Yeon Hwa will become the Wang So's queen. His wife. As a queen, she probably will want to shine like her mother-in-law But no woman can shine without love. As her mother-in-law, she will have to papered herself with gold to make herself look shiny. She's a girl full of ambitions because that's the way she was educated. Assuming that she will love Wang So (very unlikely) she will suffer a lot knowing that her feelings are not shared. If she will not love him, she will become a cold person with a heart full with hatred, selfishness, jealousy or worse, an empty shell without feelings, just like her mother-in-law. She will never know the happiness of love, so, I pity her.

 

Meh, I didn't like her way before this episode - I hated her back when she was all too eager to beat a servant girl and then Hae Soo. And I feel like she's always been like her MIL: full of selfishness, jealousy and hatred, even back then. And let's not forget, her deceased SIL, Madame Hae also married a man who didn't love her (Wang Wook) but she remained kind and generous - full of warmth and a loving person. It's all about choices and I think Yeon Hwa made the choice to be cold, jealous and spiteful a long time ago, she's hungry for power.  

 

Does anyone know anything about the plot Woo Hee mentioned to that minister guy to kill the King? I'm so confused.  

[blue003 1,094]

What was interesting in this episode was that HS's eyes are slowly being opened now. Even when WS is confessing his love for her, she stands her ground and tells him that she is in love with someone else. She just had a vision where she saw him killing Eun, but that didn't stop her from hiding the truth from WS. In the c version, Ruoxi had never told the Fourth prince about her previous relationship with the eighth. He had suspected her with 13th and the 14th but not the eighth. Unconsciously, HS still trusts WS and now maybe she might start questioning her visions.

With WW, she has started to fear whether his attitude will change after marriage. Even though she doesn't want to admit it, when Lady Oh points out that he will definitely change and tells her about the king and herself, HS is troubled. At the end of the day, WS was the one who took her away from the palace just to calm her down and WW has still not delivered on his promise. Which is why she has not thrown away the pin.

With WS willingly drinking the poison, I cannot help but wonder--- how is HS going to react? Will she start being close to him because of guilt? Or responsibility? Or not being able to feel at all?

 

[imposs90 201]

1 hour ago, briseis said:

“Shall we just run away? If you want to I wouldn’t mind.”

Source:http://dreamingsnowflake2013.tumblr.com/

 

@briseis  I love your gifs. Thank you so much for segmenting the episode to enable a much better grasp of the situation. I have a question: Do you translate the script? I've noticed in different occasions different translations of the same episodes so I am not very sure which ones to follow. They are quite contradicting sometimes.

Thanks a lot

[blue003 1,094]

17 minutes ago, enigmatic_zephy said:

Hypothetical question

 

What i understand from sageuks is that when a prince or a nobleman is taken down (killed) , his entire household including servants etc are killed. because back in time, they are his people (loyal to him) and if left alive can plan a revolt.

 

So, if HS asks Wook to choose between throne and herself.. 

1. If Wook chooses HS - would that be a ethical choice?

2. If Wook doesn't choose HS - does that mean his love was true or that he wasn't serious about her?

 

I think most probably what WW would want is to have both the cake and eat it at the same time. He wants the girl and the throne. HS is the love of his life and according to him right now, he needs the power of the throne in order to protect her. But the irony is that in order to get the throne, he will have to show his true colors and in a way it might scare HS as she has always thought of him as gentle 

[MadraRua 19,962]

Spoiler

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The Poisoning Scene. Cr: pstlish

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Poison Aftermath

 

 

 

 

Cr: Pstlish

Wang So... determined to carry on ....