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[Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner

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@KdramaSwimmer DC refers to DC Inside, a Korean online community that has various forums for different themes. There is one for MLSHR where Korean fans discuss the drama and what not. There is also a general Kdrama one where most MLSHR posts are hate/ridiculing and a minor Kdrama review one that offers more positive reviews or constructive criticism. The MLSHR DC forum is mostly against making references to the leaked synopsis or scripts, whereas the other two often have people posting snippets to compare and contrast. I have explained or translated some before and I will bring them up when I think the timing has passed in the aired episodes where it should have happened.

 

@liddi Actually, the brother-brother succession thing was a long tradition since the Goguryeo-Baekje-Silla days. Only later, when Confucianism settled in the Korean peninsula as the central philosophy did it become the norm for oldest, preferrably queen-born sons to succeed their fathers. Wang Geon specifically gave 10 instructions before dying that included this issue. Generally, you pass the throne onto your oldest son, but if a brother is considered to have virtue, that brother can succeed instead. But who decides who has virtue? The powerful clans! That's why Gwangjong felt it was necessary to get rid of so many of the initial supporters of his father. Also, the family tree was really messed up because of the intermarriage anyway. The ultimate winner in Goryeo's game of thrones is Baek Ah, as he has an affair with one of the daughters of Wook and their illegitimate child is the king through whom most of the line continues.

 

I think it was in the beginning, when WG and JM were observing WS. JM was asking WG if he called WS to the capital to serve the CP or something like that, but the subtitle was more like "Did you call me to Songak..." 

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Regarding the idea of "visions" to be original Hae Soo memories...

When HS talks with Ji Mong, he mentions memories: airplanes, for example. Memories from his travel. They would be, weirdly, memories from the future...but oh well :lol: He also said he kept seeing things but I think he didn't specify if they were always from the future (unknown in Goryeo things, things happening post 70's, etc.).  JM is pretty shadowy, we can't be sure if he has any better knowledge of Goryeo history than HS for example, maybe he lived 20 years in the future but how many are versed in their own country history being realistic? Supposedly he travelled to the modern era while being a child, so he wouldn't have the anxiety to read history as an adult would. Maybe his knowledge is as superficial but getting to live in the modern era will surely help anyone make a living in the past I think, our common knowledge is just much better (thus explaining his position). It's been hinted he's not as clueless, though.

If the visions would indeed be memories, it will bring the trouble regarding original Hae Soo life, since she was supposed to be very different and probably wouldn't get to be together neither with Wook or Wang So so where do this memories come from? Maybe she just witnessed those, none of the memories have been intimate yet. 

I am personally skeptic about the writer/production team attention to so many details/symbols (even if many I've read had been very interesting), I don't know, maybe JM just said that because we know he travelled to the future but the writter didn't develop a complex story regarding the time travel since it's not the focus of the drama at all. Maybe if they're or not visions from the future may not be relevant for the drama in the end since their purpose is the conflict at the Goryeo time between HS-WS and nothing more. At the same time LJK said the end would be happy so maybe the time-travel dynamics are more important to explain some "happy" (recognizing each other) possible modern-times ending?

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@cyriatan When did LJG say that it would be happy in the end? Most Korean fans expect it to be sad because the director said it is sadder than the C-version, although it's not clear if he meant that the ending is sad or the journey is sad. I would very much prefer a happy ending, although I don't see how that would be possible. I didn't like the reincarnation in modern time ending of Rooftop Prince. 

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Come on, Monday...move your lazy butt and hurry up!

I can't wait to see what's in store for us.

 

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29 minutes ago, kdramakrazy said:

 

I'm going to differ with this tumblr post.

It has nothing to do with girl vs boy. Nor does it have to do with how hot the guy is. In real life i would totally be on the hae su's side. But this is a drama. The simple reason is that people are more sympathetic to wang so because he touches our heart. Whether it is the writing or LJK's performance, wang so is the one who we understand.

Hae su's panic was so one tone. Given the confusing timeline, it has been at minimum 2 days since she realised that wang so is the future king yet her response is the same. run, flail, panic, warn wook. I like IU well enough but in critical scenes she falters. Example - I never thought she was seriously conflicted or saddened by falling in love with someone else's husband (when the wife for alive). Same here, i don't see panic but irrational behaviour which is boderline cruel to a person she promised she will not change and he can trust her.

LJK is selling wang so to me like anything. I can understand his pain, his desperation, his growing obsessiveness to hang on to the one person that has shown him care. Everything is not about male vs female, in dramas, it is all about who can make you care for the character. Here wang so has killed people, animals, threatened her, and yes forced kissed her, but people are still saying poor wang so! not because we don't know what is right or wrong but because the actor has completely captivated us and convinced us that "yes, the character cruel but you have to feel for him. I  have left you with no other choice. "

 

I agree with you that it has nothing to do with girl vs boy bandwagon, or anti-feminist sensibility that drove people's support. LOL. Not everything should be seen on that view. However, I think what the tumblr post writer trying to imply is we tend to focus more on his side of pain and support his standing, rather than looking at it on both ways. And yes, it likely because lee joongi's portrayal was so spot on perfect that we could feel it radiating directly across the screen. 

Where in reality that particular moment was painful for BOTH of them. Haesoo's was hurt as well. Regardless how irrational we thought of her reaction, she was obviously broken with the realisation and have not come terms with the issue just yet. Also different people have a different need of time to heal with anything, we can't just used our own experience and compare to her like that. And having him, her very source of distress, pushed himself towards her, when she still not grow past the issue just yet, would completely scare the heck out of her. It understandable at the momentous peak of her tension, she reacts so harshly with a raw and unfiltered emotions. I already try to put more context into her inner turmoil in my previous post, feel free to read for better detail. :)

What I try to encourage is it's better to try to consider both of their standing before giving our judgment. That way it will give us a better non bias view into the situation and will be fair to the people involve in it. 

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16 minutes ago, ruizaio said:

@cyriatan When did LJG say that it would be happy in the end? Most Korean fans expect it to be sad because the director said it is sadder than the C-version, although it's not clear if he meant that the ending is sad or the journey is sad. I would very much prefer a happy ending, although I don't see how that would be possible. I didn't like the reincarnation in modern time ending of Rooftop Prince. 

Mee too.....

In rooftop prince....Although finally the girl somebody resembles the prince a lot in term of phisical appearance....still they are like strangers....really 2 different people....

I cannot say that as a happy ending.....

Happy ending means the 2 same persons....doesn't matter it will be soo chooses to stay or WS will jump to the future....just like the ending of FAITH.

 

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1 minute ago, flower4junsu said:

Mee too.....

In rooftop prince....Although finally the girl somebody resembles the prince a lot in term of phisical appearance....still they are like strangers....really 2 different people....

I cannot say that as a happy ending.....

Happy ending means the 2 same persons....doesn't matter it will be soo chooses to stay or WS will jump to the future....just like the ending of FAITH.

 

 

Funny that you'd mention Faith. LJG had started filming Faith (although back then, it was a totally different story), then was basically kidnapped by the Korean army and had to cancel everything. Faith was another one that was underappreciated in Korea for many similar reasons as MLSHR.

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If the.production team has already has a  licence to be do some creative changes to the real history......why don't they just give us, their very loyal viewers, a happy ending....

Cause I'll feel so empty :huh:and sad after following a drama that takes 2 until 3 months of my attention....that I support with my whole heart just ending sadly....

Pleassssse give us a happy ending.....as a gift for us for supporting this drama:sweatingbullets:

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9 minutes ago, ruizaio said:

 

Funny that you'd mention Faith. LJG had started filming Faith (although back then, it was a totally different story), then was basically kidnapped by the Korean army and had to cancel everything. Faith was another one that was underappreciated in Korea for many similar reasons as MLSHR.

Kkkkkkkk......

I heard that that he was chosen in the drama first before LMH....though I also enjoy Minho there....

It was a good drama...but not received well in Korea with low ratings....

Similar to our moon lovers...it was well received by international fans

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1 hour ago, kdramakrazy said:

 

I'm going to differ with this tumblr post.

It has nothing to do with girl vs boy. Nor does it have to do with how hot the guy is. In real life i would totally be on the hae su's side. But this is a drama. The simple reason is that people are more sympathetic to wang so because he touches our heart. Whether it is the writing or LJK's performance, wang so is the one who we understand.

Hae su's panic was so one tone. Given the confusing timeline, it has been at minimum 2 days since she realised that wang so is the future king yet her response is the same. run, flail, panic, warn wook. I like IU well enough but in critical scenes she falters. Example - I never thought she was seriously conflicted or saddened by falling in love with someone else's husband (when the wife for alive). Same here, i don't see panic but irrational behaviour which is boderline cruel to a person she promised she will not change and he can trust her.

LJK is selling wang so to me like anything. I can understand his pain, his desperation, his growing obsessiveness to hang on to the one person that has shown him care. Everything is not about male vs female, in dramas, it is all about who can make you care for the character. Here wang so has killed people, animals, threatened her, and yes forced kissed her, but people are still saying poor wang so! not because we don't know what is right or wrong but because the actor has completely captivated us and convinced us that "yes, the character cruel but you have to feel for him. I  have left you with no other choice. "

 

Hae Soo was attracted to Wook, but she ignored those feelings. I don't think she was ever really conflicted, she just pretended that those feelings didn't exist (proven from the conversation with Wook after Baek Ah lectured her).  As for the panic attack, maybe it's because I have personally seen one from my friend who suffers from them, that to me it's believable. 

I'm going to preface this by saying that I love LJG in this role. He plays Wang So really well. Wang So, by definition is an anti-hero. The scriptwriter did a terrific job writing an anti-hero, and Wang So is meant to be evil AND sympathetic. That's how the character is written. If you want to know more about anti-heroes:

Spoiler

Antiheroes in media: http://www.bu.edu/research/articles/anti-heroes/

Source: http://www.writersdigest.com/online-editor/how-to-create-an-antihero-that-readers-love

If you dare to write about less-than-charming characters, you don’t need to always redeem them with an ending in which they see the error of their ways, mend their faults and allow their flinty hearts to be transformed into a choir loft of goodness. You see, Hollywood movies have greatly influenced audience expectations to such a degree that bad people are expected to become good, endings are expected to be tidy and hopeful, and outcomes are expected to be laced with sunshine. Fiction can, and should, mimic life, with all its messes and discomfort and disquiet. Fiction should also prove just how complicated and troubled many people are.

—by Jessica Page Morrell

In fiction, sometimes it’s difficult to categorize the various character types, especially when the characters’ morality cannot be easily defined. The antihero is a kind of protagonist—meaning he’s the focus character in the story—who has aspects of the morality we’ve traditionally come to associate with antagonists, which is where the term antihero comes from. An antihero is a protagonist who is as flawed or more flawed than most characters; he is someone who disturbs the reader with his weaknesses yet is sympathetically portrayed, and who magnifies the frailties of humanity.

...

Antiheroes can be obnoxious, pitiful or charming, but they are always failed heroes or deeply flawed. Often riddled with paradoxical traits and qualities, they resemble real people more than any other type of fictional characters do, and they are increasingly popular these days in fiction, film and television.

One of the most important qualities to remember is that antiheroes rarely, if ever, reflect society’s higher values—or what we like to think of as our society’s values; their thinking and values are often antithetical to those of the norm. For example, the sort of traits valued by most members of society—such as honesty, strength, integrity and compassion—will not always be exhibited by an antihero in a story. Or, he might have a character arc where he grudgingly adopts some of these traits. Traditional depictions of main players were of good guys with traits that we all wanted to emulate. Antiheroes turn that assumption upside down.

Here is the trick to creating antiheroes: They always possess an underlying pathos. Most characters come with flaws, neuroses and “issues.” But with an antihero, these problems are more noticeable and troublesome, and they sometimes get in the way of forming intimate attachments. There is always something that is screwing up the antihero’s plan, and that something is usually from his past. A story with an antihero in a starring role might depict how a person cannot easily escape from the past, particularly deep losses.

CHARACTERISTICS OF AN ANTIHERO

It takes a fine hand to draw an antihero because this character requires a great deal of nuance to arouse complicated reactions in the reader. As with all main characters, understanding an antihero’s character arc is crucial in designating his role in your story. After all, you’ll need to know if his good behavior is accidental, or if he is redeemed by the story’s events. One trick to creating an antihero is to fashion his primary traits so that his essential nature and personality are clear to you as you craft each scene he appears in. Then you need to know the why of these traits and beliefs—in essence, how he came to be. If your character is lawless, rebellious or obnoxious, it is likely that your character will somehow justify these behaviors.

An antihero is not simply a rebel who cannot follow the rules. The reasons for why he acts as he does, along with his self-concept, are important to the story. Another trick to creating a complicated antihero is to shape his less-than-moral traits and acts into a profound statement about humanity. As you create antihero characters, consider that they:

  • Are not role models, although sometimes we secretly would like to behave as they do
  • Are sometimes unglamorous and unattractive in character as well as in appearance
  • Can be motivated by self-interest and self-preservation, but, there is usually a line antiheroes won’t cross, which sets them apart from villains
  • Often have motives that are complicated and range from revenge to honor
  • When forced to choose between right and wrong, will sometimes choose wrong because it’s easier
  • Can play both sides with good guys and bad guys, profiting from both
  • Can sometimes be coerced to help underdogs, children or weaker characters, and sometimes even do so voluntarily
  • Can sometimes embody unattractive traits and behaviors, such as sexist and racist attitudes, and violent reactions when wronged
  • Can show little or no remorse for bad behaviors
  • Are usually a mess of contradictions.

While antiheroes are necessarily complex, beware of making them too angst-ridden or too wacky to be understood or sympathetic. Unlike most villains, antiheroes can have a character arc in which they are redeemed or transformed by the end of the story; in fact, they can become heroic. The most important thing to remember when crafting an antihero as your main character is that he is the antithesis of the ultra-competent hero.

 

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32 minutes ago, ruizaio said:

@cyriatan When did LJG say that it would be happy in the end? Most Korean fans expect it to be sad because the director said it is sadder than the C-version, although it's not clear if he meant that the ending is sad or the journey is sad. I would very much prefer a happy ending, although I don't see how that would be possible. I didn't like the reincarnation in modern time ending of Rooftop Prince. 

 

I actually don't know if he said that, sorry! I just remember reading someone in this thread who said he mentioned it on an interview, but I'm not a LJG fan to that point so maybe it's not true. Sorry I just stated that as a fact, I didn't give it a second thought. 

I haven't seen the C-version but I also think the ending would be somehow sad; I wouldn't mind a modern-time ending if the characters stay the same, but that's hard to accomplish without a loop like "overlapping memories" or something like that. I'd rather the story stay in Goryeo since a modern-time romance will be, necessarily, different even if only because of the environment. I was spoiled on how the C-drama ends prior to modern time story and found it a bit harsh for a korean drama, I'm not saying k-dramas don't deal with dramatic things, but I have the impression the sensibility is a bit different, so maybe this version will find a different/half-way path ending, I don't know. But there again that's a very ignorant impression since I haven't seen C-dramas that much. 

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35 minutes ago, bingewatcherinsomniac said:

 

I agree with you that it has nothing to do with girl vs boy bandwagon, or anti-feminist sensibility that drove people's support. LOL. Not everything should be seen on that view. However, I think what the tumblr post writer trying to imply is we tend to focus more on his side of pain and support his standing, rather than looking at it on both ways. And yes, it likely because lee joongi's portrayal was so spot on perfect that we could feel it radiating directly across the screen. 

Where in reality that particular moment was painful for BOTH of them. Haesoo's was hurt as well. Regardless how irrational we thought of her reaction, she was obviously broken with the realisation and have not come terms with the issue just yet. Also different people have a different need of time to heal with anything, we can't just used our own experience and compare to her like that. And having him, her very source of distress, pushed himself towards her, when she still not grow past the issue just yet, would completely scare the heck out of her. It understandable at the momentous peak of her tension, she reacts so harshly with a raw and unfiltered emotions. I already try to put more context into her inner turmoil in my previous post, feel free to read for better detail. :)

What I try to encourage is it's better to try to consider both of their standing before giving our judgment. That way it will give us a better non bias view into the situation and will be fair to the people involve in it. 

 

Yeah..i hope ppl would stop bashing HS. Wang So would be pissed off if he read about ppl is bad mouthing HS...she wouldn't do it without a reason...he will understand her ...dont worry..our OTP ship will definitely sailing in  2 days from now...WS is WS...he is gonna get his girl for sure..

kekekeke

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6 hours ago, 40somethingahjumma said:

 

At Darksmurf Subs (DSS) we work from the Chinese subs but we have a K translator too. If people are interested in a different take on the subs, you can go there and download the subs. It's a community-based subbing group so anyone can sign up and help with the editing.

 

 

The DSS soft subs for episode 8-9 is almost complete. I for one would want to contribute to their effort in bringing the most reliable subs for this drama by donation, :D . Hope that will encourage them to finish the project. Truly appreciate it. I for one is willing to wait for the quality subs to have more depth when it comes to the translations. Quality is bleak nowadays , ^^.

@skxz i love that Team Drowning , haha !

@amisyka77 please check my twitter :)

 

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@cyriatan Ah I was hoping it was true... maybe it is true and Korean fans just don't know it. Some people even hoped that Mu (Crown Prince) would adopt HS as a daughter and then they get married (because Wang So does marry his niece, too). Wishful thinking. I had once briefly entertained the idea of what if they had followed history with Wook's wife (so she's a half sister to the princes) and made HS a sister of hers as the C-version. (And I just realize that indeed, Wook's wife and Jeong's wife were sisters... although Jeong's was the older sister in this case, which is why historically he may have been older than Wook.) At any rate, then Hae Soo would have been a rightful princess as well and may not have to deal with as many hardships, but still affect her half-brothers with her 21st century charms... Of course, most people would be weirded out by the incest aspect of it... I'm a descendant of Silla, so I don't mind... 

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3 minutes ago, LyraYoo said:

 

The DSS soft subs for episode 8-9 is almost complete. I for one would want to contribute to their effort in bringing the most reliable subs for this drama by donation, :D . Hope that will encourage them to finish the project. Truly appreciate it. I for one is willing to wait for the quality subs to have more depth when it comes to the translations. Quality is bleak nowadays , ^^.

@skxz i love that Team Drowning , haha !

 

 

hi!

Do you have the link? realy appreciate it. tq

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3 hours ago, briseis said:

“I wasn’t able to prepare anything. Tell me if there’s anything you want. Will you really give me anything? Yes, make sure to choose something just like that (precious and hard to find). I’ll make sure to find it for you.” - So (EP07)

“I sent flower and fruit trees to your home Enjoy the shade in the summer and feed Eun the fruit in the fall.” - So (EP9)

It’s official - SO IS A CINNAMON ROLL TOO PRECIOUS FOR TIHS WORLD! He is learning, he isn’t keeping his distance this time, brooding at some pond, nor did he come empty handed.

 

And his choice of gift is is so poignant and soul-stirring. He is giving Eun his only friends - LIVING TREES (am I the only who wants to know how he named them?), something that grows, brings fruits, something that lasts and stands the test of time.

 

While his brothers gave Eun things like mirrors, silver or pearls, So’s gift is so thoughtful - both practical and beautiful which not only perfectly captures So’s personality: THE HOPELESSLY ROMANTIC PRAGMATISTS, but it also reveals how deeply he thinks about things. The parallel runs even deeper because Eun doesn’t appreciate So’s efforts and love again.

 

Honestly, this is the moment that showed why WS might be the best choice for the throne - there is an old fairytale in my country called Salt over Gold - there is a king who has 3 daughters and he wants to choose the one who would succeed him on the throne. To decide, he asks them how much do they love him - the first daughter says she loves him like gold, the second like diamonds, but the youngest and wisest one tells him she loves him like salt. The moral of the story is clear, but like with So’s trees it also shows that the best choice for a ruler is the most pragmatic person.

 

It doesn’t matter whether HS comes from a future where Gwangjong killed more than one of his brothers because the man she is looking at right know is clearly incapable of a cold-blooded fratricide. After the incident at Eun’s birthday he forgave him and everyone else and is now happily laughing with them - how could a man capable of such forgiveness and generosity do something like murdering his own brother? Why else would he kill a man pierced by many arrows, a man who is already dying, other than to put him out of his misery? And So has always used his sword, never a bow - he’s more the killing-wolves-with-bare-hands type of man; he’s so good and capable that he doesn’t need to put a distance between him and his enemy; WHY WOULD HE ORDER THE SOLDIERS TO SHOOT EUN IF HE ENDS UP KILLING HIM IN THE END ANYWAY? (I’m so happy that that tree is coniferous and not a fruit tree or else I would be bawling already!) If only Soo used her brain when thinking about that vision instead of immediately jumping to conclusions.

 

 

Well said!!!!

I heard that the general symbolic meaning of a tree can be interpreted as PROTECTION!    If it is fruit bearing tree, it symbolizes nurturing energies. 

About that vision of Eun being killed: people will commonly see it as it is and and disregard the motivation.  When they analyze and apply understanding then they will know and understand what motivated him to do so. 

Seeing vision is a good thing if you know how to make use of it.  If she really wants to change history, this tragic death can be prevented. Perhaps giving Eun advice on how he behaves for example, being childish, etc that may put his family in harms way later on.  I don't know..... but I think meddling in someones life or destiny is definitely a headache. :D:D

 

 


 

 

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