[Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner

[ruizaio]

1 hour ago, atgirlina said:

The sub shows that at the museum, the writing on the wall shows gwangjong was remembered as a good king. hae soo succeeded in her mission. Gwangjong was not a bloody king. 

But i dont understand that killing? what was that? a purge?

 

The Korean writing still included "bloody monarch" in the description of Gwangjong. I guess the sub conveniently skipped that.

[sosooyah19]

1 hour ago, wenlhy said:

Actually i doubt kbs, did they planned to compete with Moon Lovers by planning a new drama with the same period drama, almost same name Moon Lovers / Love in Moonlight, put them in the same time slot and airing earlier and using Park Bogum and Kim Yoojung popularity. If this is true, well kbs is just so MEAN.

im also doubting KBS on that part esp they had DOTS last time, and viewership was high, then the next high rating drama was Doctors, which housed by SBS, and was compared somehow to DOTS in terms of ratings... with MLSHR announcement a year ago and again by SBS, others will have to do something esp with its star-studded cast and highly anticipated.. i think this is the third post production drama but looked like it is earlier done than UF

[atgirlina]

2 hours ago, ruizaio said:

 

Darn it, Kang Hannah's interview revealed that there was more of Go Ha Jin's story before the time jump that would have explained Hae Soo's character better in the first episodes. Also, there was an edited scene (of possibly the real Hae Soo) that explained why Yeon Hwa hated Hae Soo so much. Seriously! It's all the director's fault that the domestic ratings suffered from the beginning. Even while stretching out the first few episodes, they left out such important scenes (that they had filmed!) (there's also several scenes with Chae Ryung that were cut that would have made her and Hae Soo's bond more convincing later on) from them. Just what have they done?!

Both Yoon Sun Woo (9th prince) and Kang Hannah have mentioned that the scripts were so spotty that they had to flesh out the characters themselves (to the extent that 80% of Wang Won's lines were ad libbed on the spot).

There was also a long interview with the designer of all the hairpins and other jewelry used in the show that showed how much detailed planning went into the design of each prop. It's really sad to see how all the other members of the cast and crew worked so hard on this show, but the director (who hid all those details with dark filters and extreme closeups) and the writer (who shoehorned in elements from the C-version blindly and reset all character development in each episode) screwed up. While I'm glad for the international recognition MLSHR received, I really hope that this director and writer never work on another Kdrama.

It could've been so great! great line up of actors. the set, the landscape, costumes were gorgeous. 

Just imagine ljg acting out a better script. a better flow of storyline. 

People i think we need to serve poison to: editing director, script writer, director.

At time like this, i wish we can have one of those crowdfunding movement and produce a remake version or a second season. or we can show that mlshr was just a dream and pick up from there, create a whole new show where LJG get to play the lead from first ep.

2 hours ago, ruizaio said:

 

The Korean writing still included "bloody monarch" in the description of Gwangjong. I guess the sub conveniently skipped that.

Oh. got lost in translation. make sense they showed that killings then to go with the description. For soo i think other clan is fair game, just not his brothers. the princes she got close and love.

[tinniet]

Welcoming 1.4M followers of LJG's IG 

[sosooyah19]

24 minutes ago, atgirlina said:

I myself fully understand the part that back at the time, it was basically "normal" killing a whole clan and for a king to ascend a throne and kill his brothers or male family members. kill or be killed. i totaly get that.

What i dont get was why was the vission shows gwangjong smirk at the massacre in front of his eyes. he never enjoyed killing. it's just something he must do to survive. he went crazy after he had to strike the final blow to kill eun. yet he seems to trivialize the killings of many and just smirk at it. 

That's not the wang so i remembered.

ah, i need to see the smirk,, i got your point.. he is in the courtyard for all to see.. hmmm, WS seemed to like to instill fear to everyone he meets (even then as WS and now as a king), but cries at the corner (now with no people he trusts the most)..

also killing for him is for justice... i remember he was saying that to the General that he did those killing because they deserve to die (earlier ep)..

killing of monks and eun does not count since he have no other choice but to do that, it was against his 'justice'..

well, this is just my thoughts, thanks for pointing out the smirk, i didnt realize it actually..

[qwenli]

@ruizaio i understand your frustrations, dont we all are? You mentioned the scripts were leaked so we cant really blamed the writer for having to rework things last minute.

Both the writer and director could have their hands tied like what lyrayoo said in an post earlier to yours.

certainly, the director seems to have some personal bias and he should have known better. However in hindsight, its tough to point finger at any single party. And we probably will never know the true story anyway.

I dont mind them butchering anything in between but the ending is real sad.... I believe you are ethnic Korean? Maybe you can let me know if my thinking is right:

I have this theory from watching many kdramas, I just feel with the split of South and North Korea, there is some pervasive sadness that seems to go into dramas and sad endings seems to be acceptable or even preferred? 10 years ago, there were alot of terminal illness in kdramas and the leads keep dying, then we went into an era of truck accidents?

In contrast, it is usually unacceptable for Chinese dramas to have sad endings. The endings usually if I want to say, pander to viewer's preference for some happiness.

[kdramawriter]

47 minutes ago, tinniet said:

Yes he is remembered as a good king but still his history is tainted with bloods here and there. Edit (thanks to @ruizaio): he was also written as bloody monarch. I still wonder if the history that Go Hajin knew before she went to Goryeo is the same as the history that she read in the museum, because if it is, then she failed in changing history.

Go Hajin's knowledge of Gwangjong until the rain ceremony: "He was a king who killed his brothers and his subjects. His brothers, nephews, and longtime subjects, they say he killed them all."

We know that GJ did kill his brothers: Eun and Won. He also killed his nephews (we know from YH) and longtime subjects (as Soo pictured in her mind). So basically the present GJ is just the same with GJ that Go Hajin knew. In that case, Go Hajin didn't change anything. Eventhough we as the audience know exactly the motive behind those killing but history wrote what appeared in the surface and he was remembered that way.

What we don't know is whether the history that Go Hajin knew also mentioned that GJ did many good deeds such as emancipation of the slaves. Human's mind tends to remember the negative thing than the positive one though, and Go Hajin seemed to not excel in history. But my theory is it didn't. The idea of justice and equality was planted by Soo in GJ's mind (like how YH said) and if only he never met Soo, I don't think he would care about the slaves, and thus he wouldn't be remembered as good king. In that way, Go Hajin did change the history.

My conclusion so far is Go Hajin did change the history by giving the idea of justice and equality that led to GJ's policy about the slaves (good king), but there were some things she couldn't change and stayed the same as the GJ she knew previously.  Well, I may write more after some good pondering.

I had a theory from DB ages ago which really explains this clearly. It's a long answer, but a doozy: 

 

[Rose3]

Spoiler

53 minutes ago, LyraYoo said:

Interesting discussion about the Writer Jo Yoon Young who can be the one of the culprits why majority (I would say this now because of the general consensus here and from other avenues like blogs and review sites) would point fingers at her as why is this a mess.

All I can say , is, poor writer for taking almost all the blame.

Just to share something about this industry, the dramas and movies of which me and @meahri_1 were discussing even during the broadcast    .Of which , maybe, I myself have conditioned how SHR 's performance fared in the critical and commercial meter of "Successful Drama"

This is my take on the whole production. 

Timeline in Summary

Universal NBC, YG Ent and Wind is Blowing Production made a joint venture to invest in a 13 Million USD Production of a Novel Adaptation, Scarlet Heart. After DOTS concluded in May 2016, the production boast a closed sale of a whopping 400,000 USD per episode via Youku Channel, beating the record first made by DOTS of 250,000 USD this year. The said news resurfaced on August after the press conference. However in between those months of filming from January 27 to July 1 , 2016, political factors may have affected the production of SHR (for example, THAAD)  thus pushing back the September airing a month earlier to August 26. 

*This is only a theory, which could really affected the production as a whole*

Theory 1 : The drama is expected to have 35 episodes based on earlier reports  in January and not the final 20. - This is evident with the scenes from the first material (International and Youku) that were edited out from the SBS and at the same time SBS adding longer scenes . As my kdrama chingu said, it was like having a 2 hour presentation but the last minute changes told you to cut it to 1 hour thus fitting your 200 slides to 100 . I can no longer trace the news when the final number of episodes was announced. We can see the obvious differences, that is why, trailing this drama became a monday-tuesday menbong to us with the the existing two versions (even three) released for simulcast.What cause them to trim down the number of episodes ? 

Theory 1.a. Money matters. 13 Million does not only goes to the production costs, we also have to consider the marketing costs which I believe is very substantial in this production, considering the simulcast broadcast.There could also be contingency costs covering the negotiations and stipulations not met in the contract (deadlines for example) .

Theory 1.b Refers to Theory 2 of which time constraints the director/editor team to complete the required initial advance material for review. That is why, if this is a 35-episode drama, it would explain why the Wook-So arc is longer covering the first ten episodes of the series.

  Reveal hidden contents

The reason why SHR was simulcast to China was because of new regulations made by their new law to have review of the dramas prior to airing, same rule that applies to their domestic dramas which are 100 % pre-produced. 

 

Theory 2: THAAD consequences  may have required the production to submit the first 10 episodes (as very telling by the editing) for Youku broadcast. We are speaking of beating the deadline simultaneous with the on going production. This is no different with the live shooting broadcast. Crediting @meahri_1 's words: it is like the international version is the draft and the SBS is the final one. SBS of course, being one of the buyers of the drama from the producers, demanded for quality compliance (resulted from the backlash from netizens, and yes we can't blame SBS for the versions being different either. Or the baseball game pre-empting the episode 16 airing on a Monday. They are taking their last chance of delaying the drama's airing to fit in to their schedules and to decrease the competitive advantage of the rival drama, of which had ended earlier than SHR).

  Reveal hidden contents

 

I am currently involved in a company with the similar industry here in the Philippines. The producer submits material to the broadcast company, and if there are discrepancies, the station may require the producer to edit or reject the material. It is tough because I am experiencing the similar live shooting broadcast of Korean Drama production. It is hell. And sometimes, at the end of the day, the writer , after considering all factors and constraints, would still have his material be revised based on the director's approval. And this backs my sentiment to the writer who is taking the majority of criticism . I understand that and I pity her now, because she is one of the front line aside from the cast. However, we may also consider that unless she is Kim Eun Suk or Song Jae Jong maybe, she can call the shots. But she is not. Granting from the portfolio, she and her team (with an assistant of 2 or 3 of them) can only lay out the flow of the story , the dialogues and sequences. However the final dice shall be coming from the Production Director, and the Producers.

 

I am mentioning this now, because there are other factors of which the audience, the general audience (specially the baby boomers generation who sits in front of their television and will take the drama at face value) may totally missed out. They are watching the drama with only the basics in mind: The Story (as written by the screenplay writer) , The Actors/Actress, The Show's Flow and Aesthetics (due to the director). Thus explains why the ratings speaks a lot of domestic reception , of which overall we will end up concluding that we can't please everybody.

 

 

Scarlet Heart Ryeo really picked my interest because it covered also the marketing aspect of globalization with the simulcast broadcast in other countries outside Korea and also a pre-produced drama. The drama that have its firsts . This unique investment by the producers may not be happening again in the near future, considering other environment factors affecting the sale of a Korean material to international market. 

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With Universal joining the game of risks and gains, I would say they are not only targeting the Korean audience. A material from a Chinese source in  a Korean setting means a rich cultural exchange. This kind of product is rare, considering that most of the domestic productions in Korea that reaches out internationally are mostly required of original content, coming from the regulations existing in their k-ent industry. (This was discussed to us by a famous indie director here in my country, explaining why Korea's chungmuro and dramas created the Hallyu wave--because of the rich cultural content there products have)

 

I still have to applaud the writer for her hard work and brilliance. She was brave to write a bold adaptation fit in a Korean setting, a Goryeo history of which she did not create a pseudo period, or a pseudo royal empire. I appreciate this adaptation from the novel for installing the pivotal points from the book and created similar scenarios to fit in the story. What I love in the ending is how the child from the novel (13th and Yutan's child) became Wang So's and Hae Soo. The symbol of a love, the fruit of their compassion which is saved from the cruelty of the palace compared to the failure of Taejo and Lady Oh's stillborn. The novel is known to be cruel, and with respect to the author Tong Hua, writernim had substantiated that thru a heartbreaking end of the Wang So and Hae Soo's love story, yet was able to instill a hopeful theme (of which I credit on the director who decided to cut out the future, reincarnated Wang So).

We have watched adaptations by Hollywood, live actions by Japanese Drama and Movies-and SHR is an adaptation unique to its own because the material is from a Chinese novel converted to a Korean theme. It was tough for SHR, but still I had loved and embraced this drama, despite the glaring flaws and misgivings it contains.

@LyraYoo Put in spoiler, to shorten the post. Wow! Thanks for the insight! I don't really watch long K-dramas like 50 plus episodes. Yet, for MLSHR, I can sit through 35 episodes. I guess they done what they have could, given the time and money constraints and other uncontrollable factors. This is the first few pre-produced big budget K-drama. Thus, many of the parties involved do not have first hand experience on a pre-produced drama in fact a big budget one. LJG has said in some videos before that only the make-up team for the drama has experienced it because they did it before for DOTS. Though the cut from 35 episodes to 20 episodes is a huge difference. I guess the drama would be of another level given 35 episodes to tell the full and whole story. Nevertheless, I thoroughly enjoy what we have! 

I do feel the story is something unique coming from K-dramaland (IU's comment attest to that). It has substance and depth, not just some flimsy dramas. Agree with you on your final words. Think about it, despite many flaws and hiccups, the drama is still a major international success. If it had been flawless, I think it will set a very high bar for other upcoming dramas.  

Edited November 3, 2016 by Rose34

[siobhanne]

As I understood it HS did change history. That's what she feels so guilty about, her choices brought on the history she remembered and was so afraid of. But the history from when she went to the past and when she came back is the same, with her changes already in. She just didn't have good history knowledge, the more gruesome details of GJ stuck more in her brain. Without her interference WS would probably not have become a king. 

The only thing contradicting that is Jimong's saying Yo wasn't supposed to be a king. But maybe he also had a bad memory, drinking is bad for memory. There being a different history before them going into the past makes less sense story wise over all in my opinion. WS wasn't in a position to become king without HS interference. I think that's why the other brothers were so disturbed when through the rain ritual he was suddenly in the contention. 

[vwj1]

22 minutes ago, atgirlina said:

I myself fully understand the part that back at the time, it was basically "normal" killing a whole clan and for a king to ascend a throne and kill his brothers or male family members. kill or be killed. i totaly get that.

What i dont get was why was the vission shows gwangjong smirk at the massacre in front of his eyes. he never enjoyed killing. it's just something he must do to survive. he went crazy after he had to strike the final blow to kill eun. yet he seems to trivialize the killings of many and just smirk at it. 

That's not the wang so i remembered.

 

This was my interpretation of that scene. Soo looks at the painting and she sees Soo standing alone with his back facing us.  We then see real images of Soo smirking when he was killing his rivals.  I think this is Soo's flash back of what she knew about So's history before she went back to change it.  Before Soo, the painting probably resembled the real image of So looking back at the killing.  After Soo, the depiction of the painting has him standing alone. So still proceeded with extensive purging but because Soo has instilled in So some of her ideals and values, his purging was probably less extreme then if there was no Soo at all.  So now, history still depicts So's rule as bloody but at the same time, as a King who was wise and good.  

I'm thinking that Soo did change history. She remembers King Teijo's achievements but she never mentioned King Gwanjong freeing the slaves or implementing exams that will allow anyone to hold a position within the palace.  Maybe the history that she knew prior to going back to the past was different then the history that we now have of Gwanjong. Maybe that Gwanjong was just known for his ruthlessness. 

And let's not don't forget. She also changed history also by being the first to introduce soaps and makeup to Goryeo.  Base off of the drama story line, Soo did good! Round of applause to her!

[atgirlina]

Who here stays even after the show ended because of the "missing" scene?

I was gonna stayed away, to glued back pieces of my broken heart after that ending.

Then i read there's a specific scene cut. thennn  LJG posted that "soon" video of him vowing to look for his soo yaa whatever world she's in.

Then i continue lurking and cant help to post... all for maybe less then a minute of missing scene, 2 minutes top i think. 

Aihhhhh........ 

[kdramawriter]

2 hours ago, antiherofans said:

In c-version, Rouxi leaves memento for 4th prince (the hair pin, the poetry, etc). Yes that is romantic but that is just stuff. But Hae Soo give the greatest gives to Wang So, a daughter. How do you top that?

Why the writer choose to give them a daughter not a son? Some people might say because a son can claim the throne. That is true. But I think there is another reason. When a man have a son, he can feel the pride, joy and ambition. But having a daughter can soften a man's heart. Having a daughter for a man, is like falling in love over and over again. I think that is why the writer choose to give them a daughter.

I've said this before too, but the real theme of the show is to live for the present, just like what King Taejo said. Whenever our characters do not live for the present, tragedy and heartache arise. Like when Gwangjong is too busy governing to realize that Hae Su was miserable and dying. Or when Hae Su was too fearful of the future killings and kept Wang So at an arms distance. It's like the quote: "When people make plans, God laughs." And that's exact what's happened through out the show. The planning, the scheming, the struggle to avoid fate instead throws people into worse situations. Life is fleeting and only brief moments of happiness exist, so it's more important to cherish the happiness that might come along in your life. I think the writer does a great job of hammering this home. 

I actually do believe that HS and WS have an epic love because I believe while WS saved Hae Su's life multiple times, she saved his soul. She gave him the emotional bedrock necessary to grow into a good and wise king, to forgive Jung, to understand why she left. I also loved the fact that she left him a daughter too. Now that you've put it into context of the box of stuff Ruoxi left for the 4th King, the daughter is definitely better. The daughter is the reason she left the palace, not because she didn't love WS anymore. The daughter is the ultimate price Hae Su hoped to protect. The daughter is the reason that Hae Su left the world, so that she could leave WS with a legacy and reminder of herself--I mean Hae Su did know that WS wanted their baby, he mentioned twice to her in a unromantic way, but I think the underlying sentiment was "Hae Su, I want a child to show the world how much I love you." I mean, that is just hauntingly beautiful and I'm really glad the writer allowed the baby to survive. 

[atgirlina]

4 minutes ago, vwj1 said:

 

This was my interpretation of that scene. Soo looks at the painting and she sees Soo standing alone with his back facing us.  We then see real images of Soo smirking when he was killing his rivals.  I think this is Soo's flash back of what she knew about So's history before she went back to change it.  Before Soo, the painting probably resembled the real image of So looking back at the killing.  After Soo, the depiction of the painting has him standing alone. So still proceeded with extensive purging but because Soo has instilled in So some of her ideals and values, his purging was probably less extreme then if there was no Soo at all.  So now, history still depicts So's rule as bloody but at the same time, as a King who was wise and good.  

I'm thinking that Soo did change history. She remembers King Teijo's achievements but she never mentioned King Gwanjong freeing the slaves or implementing exams that will allow anyone to hold a position within the palace.  Maybe the history that she knew prior to going back to the past was different then the history that we now have of Gwanjong. Maybe that Gwanjong was just known for his ruthlessness. 

And let's not don't forget. She also changed history also by being the first to introduce soaps and makeup to Goryeo.  Base off of the drama story line, Soo did good! Round of applause to her!

@ruizaiopointed out a missing subbed. gwangjong description still state "bloody monarch"

Oh and all that modern make up time. another thing that makes fan furious. it was an over the top product placement according to what i read. 

[wiha]

2 hours ago, antiherofans said:

For me, Hae Soo and Wang So's love is just like the eclipse. It is so beautiful, so rare, so majestic and it is amazing experience to witness. But like an eclipse, it will not last forever.

 

You put the word beautifully. Exactly what's on my mind. 

For me it is still a happy ending. At least they had the love and know that they love each other and die love each other. Nothing last forever...

[Evangeline Yang]

With all the talks about missing cut scenes etc that the director failed to give us. All the more we need the DVD because what we get now is just a synopsis of the actual story.

 

I am satisfied yet not happy with how the story turns out to be... Just now happy that we are deprived of so many scenes.

 

Until now, I still stuck in the world of Moon Lovers. Unable to go back into reality.

 

My husband asked me to stop following but I can't. I just need a good closure. Roll call if there is a need.. I am always waiting.

[ruizaio]

@qwenli Yes I'm Korean (born and partially raised in Korea), and it is true that one of the recurrent themes of Korean culture/mentality is han (恨), a sense of passive regret/resentment/grudge/sadness, etc. After watching MLSHR, I was looking into some of the songs from the Goryeo era, and there were a few that lamented the parting of lovers, some even mentioned how even a thousand years of time can't extinguish their love. Heck, the most known folk song of Korea, arirang, is about your love leaving you! The history of the common folk in Korea was mostly of oppression and suffering (and in some sense it still is, although the current fiasco with the president may allow for a change), so perhaps it's true that we're just used to stories that portray the harshness of reality and are more acceptable of sad endings. On DC, I've seen occasional posts of people claiming to be fans of sad endings because they make the story more memorable. Although most were not satisfied with the way MLSHR wrapped up.

 

Speaking of sad endings, I saw many people here and other places complain that LJG said this show would bring happiness in an earlier interview, and I would like to point out that the sub was misrepresenting his words if the following video is the source of that:

 

He was listing all kinds of emotions at about the 5-minute mark, including tragedy, pain, and sadness. While happiness was also there, it wasn't the emphasis. He did not promise a happy ending, he was just describing the various emotions MLSHR will make you feel and said that he hoped you'd enjoy it as a modern viewer. 

[vwj1]

3 minutes ago, atgirlina said:

@ruizaiopointed out a missing subbed. gwangjong description still state "bloody monarch"

Oh and all that modern make up time. another thing that makes fan furious. it was an over the top product placement according to what i read. 

 

Yes. I said So did extensive purging (bloody monarch) but now he's also known as wise and good. 

I find it blended well into the drama, the creation of the soap and makeup. But then maybe that's just me. It made sense to me to showcase it in the drama as Soo was a makeup specialist and her talent in that was displayed many times as being important in the drama (examples, making soap , making Lady Hae feel and look beautiful, covering So's scar).

[staygold]

@zi4r You have put it perfectly "intentional cruelty" and "Because this could have been a true masterpiece. What a waste." 

[Killa92]

Goodnight sweetdreams everyone  I was wondering did our SHR cast did watch the video Akihanahana post yesterday? Hee

[atgirlina]

8 minutes ago, ruizaio said:

@qwenli Yes I'm Korean (born and partially raised in Korea), and it is true that one of the recurrent themes of Korean culture/mentality is han (恨), a sense of passive regret/resentment/grudge/sadness, etc. After watching MLSHR, I was looking into some of the songs from the Goryeo era, and there were a few that lamented the parting of lovers, some even mentioned how even a thousand years of time can't extinguish their love. Heck, the most known folk song of Korea, arirang, is about your love leaving you! The history of the common folk in Korea was mostly of oppression and suffering (and in some sense it still is, although the current fiasco with the president may allow for a change), so perhaps it's true that we're just used to stories that portray the harshness of reality and are more acceptable of sad endings. On DC, I've seen occasional posts of people claiming to be fans of sad endings because they make the story more memorable. Although most were not satisfied with the way MLSHR wrapped up.

 

Speaking of sad endings, I saw many people here and other places complain that LJG said this show would bring happiness in an earlier interview, and I would like to point out that the sub was misrepresenting his words if the following video is the source of that:

 

He was listing all kinds of emotions at about the 5-minute mark, including tragedy, pain, and sadness. While happiness was also there, it wasn't the emphasis. He did not promise a happy ending, he was just describing the various emotions MLSHR will make you feel and said that he hoped you'd enjoy it as a modern viewer. 

oops. Sorry LJG shi