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[Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner


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33 minutes ago, hiluna said:

I am not sure now because there is still her suffering and missing So to get through, then there are unanswered questions about Won and YH past actions, and then Jimong is flip flopping about over HS leaving. He tells her to let him go and tells him to keep her with him ???  Will he tell So where HS is from is the big question?

 

YH already got her punishment according to me..yes, she stayed loyal to her word by abandoning Wook when the time came, when she said that "I pressured him to take the throne" i can already see the look in her face-yes! the start of guilt has already taken over her, it will eat her live when she had to face wook everyday and seeing him imprisoned in his house for the rest of his life..

and about Won, i think tomorrow is his judgement day ..lol..

and about jimong, understand one thing he is always LOYAL TOWARDS HIS KING and will do ANYTHING for that..


Example: he said "Hae Soo" to the leave the  hope for becoming a queen but he didn't say "GJ" to leave her..because JM knew he WON'T!

Now he said "GJ" to keep her with him not to "Hae Soo" , because GJ might take unacceptable actions w/o her in future..

"See all he cares about is the throne and the king who sits on it and for the nation.."

He knew about their relationship even when Yo became the king it was NOT HIM to tell WS to leave Hae Soo but it was General Park..

He said that "I will stay true to my word , that WS has the star of the king" he wanted WS to become the king and be a respectful king . That is why 

1. He told HS to leave hope ( Because GJ might be attacked)

2. He told GJ to keep HS (Because he might go crazy and take illogical decisions).

He respects the king's decision but will try every possible method of damage control so that the king shouldn't make irrational decisions , that is why I said "He cares for the king and his future decisions that might affect the country, not particularly GJ"

 

 

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5 minutes ago, gihwayujo said:

Also I just realised today that "a woman who marries a king cannot have a scar on her body" sounds like a superficial statement todaybut it is wrapped in a lot of meaning as well. If a woman has no scar on her body it means that she had a very very comfortable life. A life with no hard labour or suffering. Because slaves like Chae Ryung would be beaten at the whim of their masters (lol Yeon Hwa). So that automatically means a king will have to marry a woman of noble birth. She probably wouldn't even fall off a horse because she'd be carried everywhere in a palanquin or walking slowly from building to building since she is in no hurry to get anywhere. There were many things that Hae Soo went through during the 18 episodes that sealed her fate of not being able to marry a king. When she stabbed herself, when she was tortured, when she became a laundry maid. That's a hard life. Yeon Hwa, despite all the hardships that she went through in her life, was still a princess who was never subject to any of that :( I think So was trying very hard to fight against fate himself so he could be with Soo but ultimately lost the battle.

This is a very compelling socio-economic read of this restriction. I hadn’t thought about class at all during the show but you make a very good point. The class distinction between Wang So and Hae Su is also huge. Because even as he was discarded as a prince, he was still acknowledge as something better than the average person (to be feared, not loved but still respect). Where as HS comes from a world where everyone is equal (-ish, our world is still unfair). Wang So has the capacity to see slaves as not people, but expendable resources (he does free them later but it would not surprise me if he did not regard a slave as equal as himself) where as Hae Su always saw her slave, Chae Ryung as a person. These are wide chasms in understanding of humanity. 

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7 hours ago, vu_hoa1983 said:

It is hard being GJ.

True, he is not the type of king HS expected. He is crueler.  But has HS  really asked herself why GJ becomes that cruel?

- He is cruel to YH, asking her to give up her brother if she wants him to sleep with her, help her have a son and let that son become the future king. It is like he "sells" himself for this deal. But this is the situation WW and YH puts him in. Since he is forced to marry YH to build his power - or else he will be thrown out of his throne and ruin the nation his father builds soon - I have no problem with him making the best out of this deal - just an eye for an eye.  YH told him how she has feeling for him and I believe her, but her ambition makes GJ want to stay away from her, despite them being brother and sister.

- He is cruel to WW and Won. But really, they deserve to die. Just because HS doesn't want to see WW die doesn't mean she can blindly forget the crimes WW did. She doesn't want GJ to kill his brothers but they are people who harm others for their benefits. She doesn't want GJ to be remembered in the history as someone who kills his brothers so does she want these two to team up and scheme against GJ over and over again? 

- He is cruel to CR. Well, actually he tried to let CR live until she repeatedly crossed the line

- I haven't really understood GJ's involvement in WH's death but I am sure GJ knows how BA loves her. Unless he is forced to punish her, I don't think he deliberate try to kill her. He even let CR off before, it doesn't make sense when he directly wants to aim at WH - is this a writing fault or what.

- He did order to kill people who petition against him when he first got the throne but that is understandable since he needs to consolidate his power and makes people scared of him.

- His revenge towards his mother is completely understandable  - I don't think I need to explain that.

- His behavior towards Jung: Jung always blame him for what happened. Even though GJ never did terrible things like Yo,Wook or Won, Jung thinks of his return as the bad sign of all that happens - despite the fact that GJ saved his life before. Jung is among people who questions GJ's rise to the throne and he never fully accepts GJ's king anyway -like GJ does not deserve of that. Give him his power to led an army again and he may team up with Wook. So, giving Jung the exile treatment is not really cruel - at least Jung won't die in his effort against GJ. Not letting Jung meeting his mother is part of GJ's revenge and he actually does not punish Jung at all for coming to the palace.

Through all the terrible things that happened, GJ still only has his heart for HS - that never changed. He has to change to stay as a king but it is what has to happen in the beginning. He was powerless, he was alone without necessary support in is quest to bring peace to the nation - after all, he has to endures the first few year of turbulence  before he can make things right again and reign for 25 years.

But HS just can't wait. She can't wait unti GJ's power is stable and can finally control things fully. She has a limited amount of years to live and she just can't let GJ be a a part of it. She feels suffocated in the palace, she can't understand why GJ has to do the things he does so she has to leave - fine. But she tries to hurt GJ badly so that she can cut the ties. While I understand HS feels painful, she deliberately hurt GJ too much by agreeing to marry Jung and petitioning for Wook. 

What is with telling each other the truth. Just yell at GJ's face that he is not the king you want. Tell him he is a killer and cold-blooded person in your eyes. Tell him you are about to die and you can't stand being in this palace to witness him kill people and have children with YH. Threaten him with a hairpin or whatever you can. But how can you just simply leave a scar like his? Just tell GJ your true feeling - at least it will hurt him less.

So,girl, you actually have a few years of living quietly with Jung without any politics involved but you will miss GJ terribly. That is the hell you create for both. So I will not feel sorry for you.

Well said sister. HS deserve that because she was too blind to see things clearly

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It seems people are playing blaming games here... I have not watch ep 19. But I think i can accept how HS is loving WS & WS love towards HS.

Just because you loves WS & can see everything you blame her for everything. WS loves HS for the way she is & she loves WS for him. Not everyone will spill all the love words. See the action rather than the words. HS love WS as much as WS love her.  Both willing to sacrifice to each other.

That makes them perfect for each other. Its a melodrama after all, why ranting on something that you knew will happen

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58 minutes ago, ktcjdrama said:

Four hours of sleep and now I'm up... Well, I do have to get some things ready so getting up early is good. But we all know here because we're losing sleep over MLSHR, hahahaaa...

One thing was bugging me before I went to zzz-land. That is WH's death. I don't understand why she had to sacrifice her life just to make a point. Or just to get her people accept KGJ's rule. Wouldn't dying because of a certain king's reign means that your people will be more angry and want to revolt? Even WS was startled that her dying was the solution in order to save BS.  I don't understand... She obviously didn't get the death song as BGM, at least not in the international editing. Anyhow, her death didn't have any impact on me just because her character and relationship with BA are not well-developed enough. Her entrance was unimpressive, her exit was quick too. It is cruel that she had to do that in front of BA. I really hated that she did it that way.

Well, going against YH does not necessarily mean divorcing her. Eg. WS could back out of the giving her an heir deal because of her evil deeds, until of course several years later, which we will never know later happen or not (in drama's perspective, not real history) coz we'll reach the end of drama already.

Hmm..

 

I have not considered the situation where ending will be different from real history because this is time travel and history has to coincide with what we know.. the drama seems to explore only the how..

 

So given that assumption, we know YH is not getting punished for anythng, infact will have a happy life

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30 minutes ago, gihwayujo said:

Some quick thoughts:

I think it's really interesting that they made the quest for the throne ultimately meaningless. Everyone wanted to get the throne because they thought they could make lives better for themselves and the people they cared for. But in the end everyone who became king will suffer. You will bear a ton of burden and you are not allowed to live a life and make personal choices. You are basically a human embodiment of the state's needs. People covet power but they forget that sitting on the throne is basically being in a gilded cage. We all grew up romanticising a prince falling in love with a girl and marrying her (Cinderella, Snow White, Sleeping Beauty anyone?). But I think the demand for more "realistic" storytelling has been really trendy lately. I think Game of Thrones definitely set a huge precedent for that in the Western side of the world. The stories are usually gruesome and people end up making political marriages. In fact it was STILL happening in some form, just not too long ago. Look at Prince Charles and Camilla in the UK. They fell in love in the 70s but were not really allowed to marry each other. I could be wrong, I'm not an expert on English Royalty but I think the Queen Mother (basically, his grandmother) wanted him to marry a Spencer girl (ie: Diana's family, Charles was either going to marry her older sister or her). They get married. Have two kids. A messy divorce. Look at the King and Queen of Bhutan. Apparently the girl who was to marry the King already met him when she was a child. That's royalty and aristocracy for you.

Also I just realised today that "a woman who marries a king cannot have a scar on her body" sounds like a superficial statement todaybut it is wrapped in a lot of meaning as well. If a woman has no scar on her body it means that she had a very very comfortable life. A life with no hard labour or suffering. Because slaves like Chae Ryung would be beaten at the whim of their masters (lol Yeon Hwa). So that automatically means a king will have to marry a woman of noble birth. She probably wouldn't even fall off a horse because she'd be carried everywhere in a palanquin or walking slowly from building to building since she is in no hurry to get anywhere. There were many things that Hae Soo went through during the 18 episodes that sealed her fate of not being able to marry a king. When she stabbed herself, when she was tortured, when she became a laundry maid. That's a hard life. Yeon Hwa, despite all the hardships that she went through in her life, was still a princess who was never subject to any of that :( I think So was trying very hard to fight against fate himself so he could be with Soo but ultimately lost the battle.

There has been a lot of talk about which Prince Team we are on. I find that at the end of it all. I'm actually on Team 13. I love LJG and 4 is obviously my favourite prince. But if I had to vote who had the "best princely behaviour", the one who managed to keep his head cool and make rational decisions despite everything, it was Baek Ah. He disliked Hae Soo because he had a crush on Lady Hae and thought Hae Soo was seducing Wook and would end up hurting a woman he loved. However he eventually learned that Hae Soo was not a bad person and welcomed her as a friend into his life. No one else in the series has done this okay, it's all about the grudges. He actually managed to let go of Lady Hae and managed to move on in life and found another woman to love. This guy got stabbed but no one even noticed or knew about it. They might have conveniently missed out a scene where So found out he was stabbed since Baek Ah isn't a major character but I'm going to go ahead and assume So doesn't even know about it. He just quietly kept it all to himself. Woo Hee easily could have been thrown into jail as well for stabbing a prince. Remember how everyone made such a big deal out of Hae Soo touching a prince's face? He also understood the irony that his father killed her family and her grandparents killed his grandmother's family but he waved it all off and said "anyway it all happened before we were born. who cares?" that's actually VERY progressive, modern thinking there. Someone like Queen Yoo would not be capable of that. In a way, Baek Ah also had a lot of freedom because his family lost all their power so he never really had any high aspirations to begin with. He was never expected to gain a lot of power. The older princes like Yo and Wook have powerful families and were probably expected to take up important jobs within the government. Wang Eun is actually from a powerful family (that's why they were massacred) but he kinda came across as a spoilt kid and maybe his family never really pressed him to get a "job" in the court. I suppose in the end the one who had most freedom to make life choices and romantic choices was Baek Ah. He was definitely less constrained than the rest. So yeah, much respect to Baek Ah for really being the gentleman of Songak.

 

Yup, Baek Ah is the only gentleman in Songak. Yes he loses his love but he doesn't lose himself.

Respect :)

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5 hours ago, kdramawriter said:

This is a very compelling socio-economic read of this restriction. I hadn’t thought about class at all during the show but you make a very good point. The class distinction between Wang So and Hae Su is also huge. Because even as he was discarded as a prince, he was still acknowledge as something better than the average person (to be feared, not loved but still respect). Where as HS comes from a world where everyone is equal (-ish, our world is still unfair). Wang So has the capacity to see slaves as not people, but expendable resources (he does free them later but it would not surprise me if he did not regard a slave as equal as himself) where as Hae Su always saw her slave, Chae Ryung as a person. These are wide chasms in understanding of humanity. 

 

Thank you :) it actually dawned on me because I came across the issue of Chinese foot binding today. It's about the same logic. Women with bound feet don't have to work in the fields. They are trophy wives for their husband to be proud of. And sadly that was more or less the role of women in the past. If you're lucky you come from a really good background and have something good to offer your husband. Your responsibility is to make heirs and bring them up to be good men. I enjoyed the characterisation of all the women in the series. I also find that Court Lady Oh was "the real queen" at the end of the series just like how So declared Soo his "only queen". Court Lady Oh carried herself with more dignity and respect than either of the queens every did despite being of lower birth and she was the only person the king could think about on his death bed. Despite everything, the winner was Oh and not Yoo.

----


Oh, and I also realised that they passed the pregnancy and subsequent miscarriage story line from the Chinese version to Court Lady Oh instead. Was it for the sake of saving time?

It's actually not unheard of for a king to have a mistress and some illegitimate children despite having a queen. I think the same actually happened in European courts too but god forbid if a queen had a male lover. Look what happened to Marie Antoinette and the last queen of Russia, they were suspected to have lovers and were both killed (they were killed for other reasons but rumours about their supposed lovers certainly did not help their reputation and their downfall). Yeon Hwa would not be able to have a secret lover if her marriage was crap but its technically ok for So to keep Hae Soo around as a mistress and treat her like an open secret. If it was any other woman of the time she likely would have gladly accepted that position and sat in her tiny little petty room to wait for the king to come to her every night. But we're talking about Hae Soo who has very modern ideas and could not accept the idea of polygamy or being a mistress. Her policy of not making that compromise is also what's making the story extra tragic, haha. Perhaps the power struggle got to Hae Soo as well. She was starting to hope that maybe, perhaps, she could be Queen.

I also think it's quite realistic Soo is rejecting So. Perhaps she wants him to hate her so that he wouldn't be as upset if she died. (She knows she's dying soon.)

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I just realized that this series is about the breakdown of a relationship. In all other K-dramas with a couple, the series is how the couple comes together, overcome obstacles, and have a happy ending. The happy ending here is that So and Soo break up because they have drifted from each other and they are no longer compatible with one other. It doesn't matter if it's because she turned selfish (which I still say she's entitled to since her self-preservation has kicked in), or he turned into a tyrant, or it's kill or be killed in Goryeo, they've drifted. Relationships are hard work in the 21st century alone but relationships in the 10th century? That's hard work on a different level since betrayal and death is a legitimate threat. They no longer have the same life goals and values and are now fundamentally incompatible. Neither one is the bad guy but circumstances have made them prioritize different values and now they're seeing how the other person prioritizes and they don't like what they see.

And this is how I feel after episode 19:

Leaving-quote-from-Greys-Anatomy-Quote.g

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I've yet to watch 19 because I am a coward (!!!) and I will probably sob buckets but..I will be live recapping tomorrow's finale, come hell, high water and the inevitable tears.

Here is a story that made me cry and also hope..BECAUSE IF THIS IS NOT HOW IT REALLY HAPPENS IN THE FUTURE THEN THERE IS NO JUSTICE IN THE WORLD.

 

Give the author some love, friends! See you tomorrow for the finale

 

https://archiveofourown.org/works/8374036

 

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1 hour ago, kdramawriter said:


I think you have a very different definition of love than Hae Su. She does truly love Wang So, but she is not willing to stand aside and allow herself to be consumed by the way of his life. She is not willing to stay by his side, consequences be damned. I don't see that as a stupid character, I see that as a woman keen on survival. I keep seeing comments about how sad it is that HS is leaving WS because she doesn’t love him or understand him. I think she’s leaving him because she DOES love him and she knows him all too well. Here’s what I see:

Spoiler


1. Hae Su should have understood Wang So because she has been with him the most. Her understanding should have allowed her to continue to be in love with him. 

ANS: From your quote: "When a person loves someone, aren't you suppose to accept the good with the bad?" Maybe. This is an ambiguous question and more of an aphorism than logic. How much bad are you suppose to accept? How much bad can you bear before it drives you insane? That is a question every relationship test must pass. Is there more good than bad? Is the bad worth the good. Only our heroine can decide what her limit is in a relationship, we don’t get to decide that limit. For me, it is enough that Hae Su knows her limitation and is bailing for her sanity.  

2. Hae Su never takes Wang So's side. 

ANS: Hae Su has taken his side plenty of times. She proclaimed him king. She covered his scar so that he would be successful at the rain ritual. She subsumed her identity in order to be with him. She lied to herself that she could be with a man who was in a polygamous relationship with another woman (YH) who’s hell bent on destroying her. THIS MESSAGING IS WHAT THE SHOW IS ABOUT. You cannot change yourself for a man, you will only be ruined in the process. Hae Su tries to fit into the palace, but her very essence does not belong there because she does not hunger for power. She is not interested in gaining a position so she will always be vulnerable. Has Wang So been able to protect her? He’s kept her alive, but there’s not much else for her to live for other than seeing him. And that’s simply not enough to sustain a person. 

Just because Wang So loves her and will not let her go does not mean that his love is inherently GOOD. This is the difference I’m parsing out for you. We can see that WS’s love is actually obsessive (as LJK has said in interviews past) and suffocating. Once she entered the palace as his woman, there was no hope of them ever being equal ever again. He cuts her off from every line of information and communication, “to save her” but also to restrict her freedom, which is the one thing she has told him she absolutely cannot live without. He ignores this because he’s desperate to have her forever. Is this desperation love? I think it's the only kind of love WS is capable of because he's so messed up from Mama Yoo. But yes, he feels like it's love. But Hae Su feels it as suffocation. 

3. Hae Su is a hypocrite for forgiving CR and not forgiving WS

There’s no line where Hae Su says CR is forgiven for her crimes. That Hae Su feels sorry for CR is part of her personality. She is an empathetic person able to see CR’s plight. She was able to do it for So in the past: when he killed those monks, when he had to kill Eun, when almost everyone in Goryeo tells her that he’s a terrible person, she tells WS that she KNOWS he’s a good person. This is the problem though, because what HS considers to be a good person is absolutely not what WS considers to be a good person. 

This is an excellent read from overthinking kdrama:

Soo has become a shadow and a type of every influential, wise, gorgeously flawed woman she’s been forced to watch go before her. She is Myung Hee, trapped in a failing body unable to offer anything but comfort to the man she loves as his heart gets further away from her. She is Court Lady Oh, calling her former lover Your Majesty, serving him as she gets mocked and bullied by his other woman. She is Soon Deok and Chae Ryung too. She is every one of them, dying for the men they love. She too is being crushed beneath the ever turning wheel of this monstrous patriarchy. To keep from being devoured, all she can do is flee the palace.

And don’t try to argue to me that Soo is changing first, that So is staying steadfast while she is giving in. So threw Soo away when he picked the throne, it’s just taken her until the end of episode 18 to realize it…and he still hasn’t realized it. At least he won’t admit it to himself. Like his father before him, he doesn’t realize that love has been lost until it has been lost utterly.

 

 

I love what you've written above.

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1 hour ago, ktcjdrama said:

Four hours of sleep and now I'm up... Well, I do have to get some things ready so getting up early is good. But we all know here because we're losing sleep over MLSHR, hahahaaa...

One thing was bugging me before I went to zzz-land. That is WH's death. I don't understand why she had to sacrifice her life just to make a point. Or just to get her people accept KGJ's rule. Wouldn't dying because of a certain king's reign means that your people will be more angry and want to revolt? Even WS was startled that her dying was the solution in order to save BS.  I don't understand... She obviously didn't get the death song as BGM, at least not in the international editing. Anyhow, her death didn't have any impact on me just because her character and relationship with BA are not well-developed enough. Her entrance was unimpressive, her exit was quick too. It is cruel that she had to do that in front of BA. I really hated that she did it that way.

Well, going against YH does not necessarily mean divorcing her. Eg. WS could back out of the giving her an heir deal because of her evil deeds, until of course several years later, which we will never know later happen or not (in drama's perspective, not real history) coz we'll reach the end of drama already.

 

 

I still don't get that part too. I wanna be sad but I can't because I don't get the message why you have to kill yourself to make a point to your people. If I am one of his people, I would blame the king for making my princess die. So with her death, her people will finally accept that GJ is their king?

I am sorry but I still don't get that part. Maybe someone can explain this better?

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2 hours ago, Diana Blanche said:

The truth is that I don't want my words to be true. I still hope that the one that Ha Jin will meet in the future to be So. But I will can't endure to see tomorrow another 50 minutes about WS/HS pain and only 10 min of remembrance in the future. It would be like after they broke my heart to pieces they would try to stick them back with super glue.

 

Another 50 minutes about WS/HS pain + 26 years of Wang So's pain as GJ + 1000 years of waiting

THEN

10 minutes of happiness if it even exist somewhere

 

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8 minutes ago, trizha1 said:

Give the author some love, friends! See you tomorrow for the finale

 

i can't give her any love as of now, buy later i will...i will thank her for all my fav moments until ep 18..sure thing...right now i need space to grief  and be mad at someone..someone needs to pay me for all this heartache ...mainly the writer....:vicx:

6 minutes ago, antiherofans said:

 

I still don't get that part too. I wanna be sad but I can't because I don't get the message why you have to kill yourself to make a point to your people. If I am one of his people, I would blame the king for making my princess die. So with her death, her people will finally accept that GJ is their king?

I am sorry but I still don't get that part. Maybe someone can explain this better?

some things don't  make sense you just have to ride with flow...

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In some ways, it's pretty amazing that this drama is making me believe that So finding out that Soo did love him upon her death is a happy ending under the circumstances, considering the alternative (that he goes through 26 years with the snake by his side believing the love of his life never loved him)

But what about Soo? If So doesn't end up coming in time to see her before she dies, she's going to die believing that he believed she'd never loved him and he hated her.

The poor girl. What an amazing(ly tragic) life she's lived.

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1 minute ago, millie10468 said:

But what about Soo? If So doesn't end up coming in time to see her before she dies, she's going to die believing that he believed she'd never loved him and he hated her.

The poor girl. What an amazing (read: tragic) life she's lived.

i couldn't care less about her  given the circumstances ....i hope that by tomorrow i can change my mind on all this ordeal...i just want for WS to not lose it completely...that would be devastating to see...him going hysterically out of control ...:tears::tears:

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20 minutes ago, Siracusa said:

I just realized that this series is about the breakdown of a relationship. In all other K-dramas with a couple, the series is how the couple comes together, overcome obstacles, and have a happy ending. The happy ending here is that So and Soo break up because they have drifted from each other and they are no longer compatible with one other. It doesn't matter if it's because she turned selfish (which I still say she's entitled to since her self-preservation has kicked in), or he turned into a tyrant, or it's kill or be killed in Goryeo, they've drifted. Relationships are hard work in the 21st century alone but relationships in the 10th century? That's hard work on a different level since betrayal and death is a legitimate threat. They no longer have the same life goals and values and are now fundamentally incompatible. Neither one is the bad guy but circumstances have made them prioritize different values and now they're seeing how the other person prioritizes and they don't like what they see.

 

THAT... exactly! And this is why SHR is such a tragic but beautiful love story...

(sorry to cut your post)

:phew: That said I'm sure tomorrow episode will be brighter, this is K-Drama land after all ;)

 

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13 minutes ago, trizha1 said:

I've yet to watch 19 because I am a coward (!!!) and I will probably sob buckets but..I will be live recapping tomorrow's finale, come hell, high water and the inevitable tears.

Here is a story that made me cry and also hope..BECAUSE IF THIS IS NOT HOW IT REALLY HAPPENS IN THE FUTURE THEN THERE IS NO JUSTICE IN THE WORLD.

 

Give the author some love, friends! See you tomorrow for the finale

 

https://archiveofourown.org/works/8374036

 

 

Can't do this right now. I am still in my angry, depressed, heartbroken, crazy, and hate everything phase. Maybe later.

 

There is no love in this world, only pain :tears:

 

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  • Jillia changed the title to [Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner

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