[Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner

[antiherofans]

7 minutes ago, fathiayunia said:

It's 09.18 A.M here in my side of the world and I'm in the middle of my class right now but I can't help thinking about yesterday's episode.

If I have a discussion with the writer (W) and The director (D) in a meeting room maybe it will goes like this.

Me : Character wise, those character you write are all epic.

W : Thankyou.

Me : But the praise ends there. Some of their growth are horrendous.

W : What do you mean? I don't have time! I think about the story for 35 or more episodes and they made it into 20 episodes drama what can I do? And it's the director's decision to choose what to show on the screen, so their growth got skipped a lot.

Me : Director, what do say about this?

D : Deadlines. I'm chased with deadlines what can I do?

Me : Sigh. This is a mess. Whatever. Now *flips paper* I have some complaints. Many people are complaining about the shift change in WS's personality.

D&W : What do you mean shift change WS always has this ruthless streak even in the beginning.

Me : I know he stays on character. I know that you tried to showed us that WS is very ruthless by slacing the horse, burning the trees, fighting the wolves, fighting the monks, lalala that makes him a very hard and kind of cruel character but then you showed us how he got humanities from knowing HS, and you just showed us cinnamon roll WS from then and suddenly in episode 17 you decided to show us ta dah his cruel streak is back without good transition. People get shocked of course. Though not me, I kinda love it.

W & D : .... We have no comments on this. Time. Deadlines.

Me : sigh-_- well, I just hope he won't have another shift change and goes ballistic on us by sleeping with YH when HS is still there. That is plain cruel to his growth.

W & D : We can't really assure you because in history......

Me : Screw history. Sleeping with his sister who  poisoned him without his knowledge, while still being in love with another girl just because you get jealous suddenly when he seems like he doesn't really care at all in the past is just plain stupid. Please don't let him go down that stupidity path.

W & D : We can't assure.... 

Me : No. Don't give me excuses. I love him too much to see him goes batsh*t stupid. Now, WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO HAE SOO??? SHE IS SO CLUELESS and I can ignore the plot hole before BUT MAKING HER JUDGING WANG SO,  AND LEAVES WANG SO WHEN HE NEEDS LOVE&CARE THE MOST IS JUST PLAIN STUPID AND TOO MUCH. DOES SHE EVEN LOVE HIM?? DOES SHE??? Why is it that it looks like she is not putting any effort into the relationship, and only WS who is trying hard?? Whenever she is having a fight in episode 17 with Wang So looks feds up and leaves the room first, and she just gives up?? without chasing him??? HAHAHAHA*maniac laugh* where is the HS that said she will trust WS? understand him? hates to be apart from him?? WHY IS SHE KEEPS ON BREAKING PROMISES TO HIM?? 
Isn't Ha Jin supposed to be 6-7 years older than WS?? Apart from asking too much from WS to suit everything within her saint complex core, this is just plain running away from problem. If I'm Wang So I will also be fed up with her. And she is the main character? Where is her growth lesson? WHY? WHYYYYYYYYYY.

W : I leave the growth to viewers imagination. And HS said that it's okay for victimezed people like her to be selfish.....

Me : STOP. Didn't she learn what WS was through at the moment from YH? How much pressure he is in? At that fight they have about Jung, this is what she should do in this stage of story, IF she truly loves him :
WS gets angry and leaves the room,
HS chases him and kiss him senseless.
And then when he is back to puppy Wang So, she asks what happens, why is he like this suddenly? What's wrong? I don't understand. I'm stupid. I'm clueless about politics. Please teach me. Please enlighten me. No, sorry hyperbole at the end. But she should ask him what is wrong!!!

W : she is from modern time...

Me : *flips table, papers everywhere* screw this. I'll just watch gwangjong takes revenge on those snakes and give up on redeeming HS. Now she just cross my patience and I can't see her love as trascend time and space. *walks out. slams the door.*

meeting err.. ranting ends.

 

LOL, OMG you kill me with this

[may6]

16 minutes ago, eunki said:

I've collected my mental power and watched last ep. again.. Can anyone share views on these points? 

When WS proposed and HS rejected why he went on with his fave "I won't let you go, you're mine" stuff??   Is it that he thought she rejected because didn't love and want to marry him really much?? For me HS reasons are very clear from her words and I see she is unhappy about it, thus it's a sacrifice from her side, but... suddenly I remembered WS reaction when HS decided to go to palace to marry king TaeJo. He said if she didn't want it she should have tried to escape no matter what consequences would be. Did he expect her to say yes without regards to situation? 

BTW I find it interesting that it was HS who initiated BOTH confession and proposal. Would he propose and marry her himself? With all this pressure and political common sense..

And later on, he saw her beside praying rocks but didn't approach. Is it because he saw her smiling to CR and thought she doesn't care about wedding night?? Honestly I hoped so much that that night he will visit her and they will have it like their wedding night.. but another frustration  he even didn't show up..

I will be thankful for any input) I need some logical reasons to help me overcome this angst

 he would have probably  push for a wedding regardless of what his political judgement dictated ... that was why she had to let him know that it was ok on her part if she was not queen ,because one of his priorities was to keep her as happy as he  possibly could  and he knew HS disliked polygamy...regarding CH he probably didn't approach her mainly for 2 reasons , 1 . he had probably already decided what he was going to do with CH and he knew HS wouldn't  happy  with the outcome ,thus he will see her after ...and 2. CR was an informant  ,he probably didn't want anybody to know that he was out,strolling the streets ,when he was suppose to be spending the night with his queen ...and regarding what came after, well the again he probably held back because he didn't want any rumors to be spread ...or he felt guilty and frustrated   that he had married a woman that was not his HS or maybe something did happen and we as viewers are in the dark ... i took a guess in all this 

[minmar]

45 minutes ago, 40somethingahjumma said:

Good episode but yeah... very sad as the inevitable looms large. The throne is truly a lonely place and to hold on to it is a terrifying task.

As someone else said earlier in the thread, I too have a really hard time taking sides between So and Su because I love them both and I can quite easily put myself in their shoes and walk in them. In a real enough way these two people would have never met if she hadn’t been transported unceremoniously across time and space. It’s a mismatched situation and ultimately it’s a mix of circumstances and their own personalities that will tear them apart. But it doesn’t make their romance less great even if they go their separate ways. The greatness of their romance shouldn’t be measured by whether they have a happy ending but by how much they loved when they could. My belief is that they were hampered from the start but in the end they tried the very best they could. I never assumed that they would have a happy ending judging from the source material and I never liked to speculate much that they would either.

My view for some time has been that Su was brought back to Goryeo precisely for the qualities that she’s being berated for clinging onto right now. Narratively at least, only a woman who can see the best in others despite all appearances to the contrary could have tamed a savage, blood-thirsty, ruthless man and caused him to fall in love. Wang So was a pariah within his family and in all of Goryeo. His reputation as a wolf-like creature preceded him and yet she managed to find something in him to sympathize with. More than that, her tendency to sympathize compelled her to help him unmask himself and instil the confidence he needed to get to where he is today. On top of all of that, her unerring optimism and sassy attitude endeared her to most of the princes. Before we turn on her wholesale, let’s remember that those were the character traits that made her uniquely qualified to unlock So’s heart and take him on his journey to the throne.

I think it is a little unfair to ask her to jettison all of that just because it would be more expedient to do so. On some level, I want her to become as conniving and ruthless as Yeon Hwa but then if she were like YH, neither Uk nor So would never have fallen for her. She would have just been another palace player with agendas, manipulating everyone for her own ends.

However, having said that, it is also fair to say that if she can’t cast off her idealism because it’s killing her little by little inside, she needs to leave so that she doesn’t hold So back from doing what needs to be done and if So does love her and continues to respect her freedom, he should let her go.

I also strenuously disagree that Su doesn’t love So or has never loved him. I am really surprised that even after the last few episodes commenters are still saying this. She has compromised her own stated positions on polygamy and marriage in general not once but twice already because of him. She didn’t condemn him for killing Eun and understood why he did it. She waited at least 2 years for him when he left without her and she helped him become King despite her own misgivings. When she built her prayer shrine, she asked for more time to be with him knowing that she’s largely living on borrowed time.

Much as I don’t care for Chae Ryung, I’m sure that entire episode devastated Su not just because of the brutality in which punishment was meted out but because CR was supposedly a friend she had trusted and CR betrayed her trust. Someone who had not only caused the death of a King but also someone who had knowledge of the truth of a conspiracy. All of this made things untenable for Su and So under Yo’s watchful eye, which led in part to their 2 year separation. Undoubtedly CR was a pawn in a much bigger game but she used their so-called friendship to be a spy for Uk and Won and make in-roads into the palace. 

Nevertheless, call me hard-hearted but I don't buy "she only loved" as an excuse. People got hurt and a good King went nuts, died. And as So rightly pointed out, she was used to create problems between them. That's why Su sadly... doesn't really belong in the palace. It's not a bad thing to be generous but when people are backstabbing you and have created problems between you and the man you love, you've got to draw the line somewhere.

All these complaints are why week after week I keep thinking that I must be watching a show that’s completely different to everyone else. There must be some 4^th or 5^th version floating out there that’s created from Vogon poetry that I haven’t yet seen.

 

So has always been the guy to take out the rubbish. Now that he's on the warpath, he's definitely doing what he was born to do I expect.  He's taking out the rubbish in his own indomitable style.

As for So’s apparently newfound ruthlessness… well, he’s always been ruthless. That’s at the core of who he is. Let’s not forget that this is the man who killed a temple full of monks for his mother. It’s part of his duality… the man needing to be loved and the man who was never afraid to do what was necessary. Not sure why that’s a contradiction. Aside from that the one thing he cared about most in the world and he was forced from every side to give her up and be the devoted husband he always wanted to be. And now he’s hopping mad… as I expected he would be.

The Hwangbos overreached and forced his hand in the matter of marriage and needing support from the powerful clans. He was backed into a corner, asked to give up Su for political expediency and he’s none too happy. She’s been largely the restraining force in his life and now that the political class is trying to put a leash around his neck again, he’s growling and snarling. Are we surprised he’s fighting back?

This is what I meant about Uk needing to be very careful about pushing So. With all his so-called smarts he still hasn’t got So figured out – So is a fighter… a different kind of beast to him. When So thought Su was his happily ever after, he was a cute trained puppy on a leash but now when things are threatening to pull them apart, the wolf will come to the fore. It’s exactly what Yo said, Wolves mate for life. It works both ways: defensively and offensively. Used as a leverage once too many times, the wolf will bite and come out swinging. The schemers forgot that and they will pay, pay, pay. One at a time.

Honestly, I don’t see anything inconsistent at all. Frankly I don't see that So needs to apologize for cleaning up when his brothers were doing all kinds of things to undermine the throne and those protecting it for their own purposes.

Judging from how she’s written Su and So, I’d venture to guess that the writer probably believes people don’t really change all that much and it doesn’t take much for them to revert back to what they know when the trigger’s right. They both have things to do and if Su can't be the comfort that So needs then I support her leaving the castle and live out the final days peacefully (although the thought of her taking off with Jeong makes me a bit queasy).

See why I don’t take sides.

(Well, maybe the writer’s side)

I finally got the translation and watched it again. I so agree with you so much,,, except.. HS is a twit. Love, slavery none of that is an excuse for what Chae Ryung did.  SORRY. But HS should have been hopping mad. I would have been. She should have empathized with WS.  I don't know maybe I'm queen b*t*h but my sympathy is all for WS. 

[qwenli]

Thanks for the BTS. I put in the English captions for the Hangeul parts that I can read.

[CapriGirl13]

3 hours ago, lyserose said:

Many would choose to disagree with Wang So and feel the heartbreak over his transition into a formidable Gwangjong but I guess, I am in the minority who actually like him better in this episode, or should I say I like this version of Wang So. Let's not forget that he is a King and he could not let himself being pulled by the nose by others. Some of his decisions could be seen as plainly cruel but as a king, he needs to step out with best foot forward and make the decision which he thinks is best for himself and at the situation despite being unpopular to others. I like that he exudes power in this episode, holding his ground as a king even taking advantage of Yeon Hwa to win the political game and solidify his power. The fact that he can turn the table on Yeonhwa pretty much shown us how much So has stepped up his political game.

The problem with Haesoo is that she is too idealistic and this is where her 21st century self is ill-fitting to this era. Tbh, I kind of like that Wang So holds his ground even to the woman he loves by asking Haesoo not to meddle into his decisions as a king and this is where I respect Baek Ah, he may not necessarily agree with So but he care to understand and could see beyond the true intention of So's actions unlike Haesoo. Haesoo simply has the tendency to view things at face value and So could not do more but hoping for her to understand. 

I have no issue with the separation between OTP. Sometimes, being apart is not because we love no longer but could be the best thing to give one another so that none would continue to hurt the other. By being apart, Haesoo won't feel hurt by So's actions which she could not agree with and So would not be hurt by Haesoo's lack of understanding. Their love still continue but the its the course than has run out. But if there's anything I wish to comment, I am devastated that Haesoo care to understand others including Chae Ryung despite her ultimate betrayal but care not to understand So.

Ha! Same as you mate, I'm so happy to see the brand new WangSo. This is him i'm waiting for, and now that i get it, i'm satisfied LOL

The thing with HaeSoo is she's too attached with her heart. I know she has that pure heart, but that's not enough to be a queen. Her feeling clouded her judgement, that's why she got angry with WangSo for killing ChaeRyung. All Wangso wants is to protect her.

I'm not gonna get my hope ups about the ending because in the real history there is no Haesoo. And even this drama has taken a creativity with the plot and characters, the ending must not defy the truth.

 

[arsdf]

14 minutes ago, fathiayunia said:

It's 09.18 A.M here in my side of the world and I'm in the middle of my class right now but I can't help thinking about yesterday's episode.

If I have a discussion with the writer (W) and The director (D) in a meeting room maybe it will goes like this.

Me : Character wise, those character you write are all epic.

W : Thankyou.

Me : But the praise ends there. Some of their growth are horrendous.

W : What do you mean? I don't have time! I think about the story for 35 or more episodes and they made it into 20 episodes drama what can I do? And it's the director's decision to choose what to show on the screen, so their growth got skipped a lot.

Me : Director, what do say about this?

D : Deadlines. I'm chased with deadlines what can I do?

Me : Sigh. This is a mess. Whatever. Now *flips paper* I have some complaints. Many people are complaining about the shift change in WS's personality.

D&W : What do you mean shift change WS always has this ruthless streak even in the beginning.

Me : I know he stays on character. I know that you tried to showed us that WS is very ruthless by slacing the horse, burning the trees, fighting the wolves, fighting the monks, lalala that makes him a very hard and kind of cruel character but then you showed us how he got humanities from knowing HS, and you just showed us cinnamon roll WS from then and suddenly in episode 17 you decided to show us ta dah his cruel streak is back without good transition. People get shocked of course. Though not me, I kinda love it.

W & D : .... We have no comments on this. Time. Deadlines.

Me : sigh-_- well, I just hope he won't have another shift change and goes ballistic on us by sleeping with YH when HS is still there. That is plain cruel to his growth.

W & D : We can't really assure you because in history......

Me : Screw history. Sleeping with his sister who  poisoned him without his knowledge, while still being in love with another girl just because you get jealous suddenly when he seems like he doesn't really care at all in the past is just plain stupid. Please don't let him go down that stupidity path.

W & D : We can't assure.... 

Me : No. Don't give me excuses. I love him too much to see him goes batsh*t stupid. Now, WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO HAE SOO??? SHE IS SO CLUELESS and I can ignore the plot hole before BUT MAKING HER JUDGING WANG SO,  AND LEAVES WANG SO WHEN HE NEEDS LOVE&CARE THE MOST IS JUST PLAIN STUPID AND TOO MUCH. DOES SHE EVEN LOVE HIM?? DOES SHE??? Why is it that it looks like she is not putting any effort into the relationship, and only WS who is trying hard?? Whenever she is having a fight in episode 17 with Wang So looks feds up and leaves the room first, and she just gives up?? without chasing him??? HAHAHAHA*maniac laugh* where is the HS that said she will trust WS? understand him? hates to be apart from him?? WHY IS SHE KEEPS ON BREAKING PROMISES TO HIM?? 
Isn't Ha Jin supposed to be 6-7 years older than WS?? Apart from asking too much from WS to suit everything within her saint complex core, this is just plain running away from problem. If I'm Wang So I will also be fed up with her. And she is the main character? Where is her growth lesson? WHY? WHYYYYYYYYYY.

W : I leave the growth to viewers imagination. And HS said that it's okay for victimezed people like her to be selfish.....

Me : STOP. Didn't she learn what WS was through at the moment from YH? How much pressure he is in? At that fight they have about Jung, this is what she should do in this stage of story, IF she truly loves him :
WS gets angry and leaves the room,
HS chases him and kiss him senseless.
And then when he is back to puppy Wang So, she asks what happens, why is he like this suddenly? What's wrong? I don't understand. I'm stupid. I'm clueless about politics. Please teach me. Please enlighten me. No, sorry hyperbole at the end. But she should ask him what is wrong!!!

W : she is from modern time...

Me : *flips table, papers everywhere* screw this. I'll just watch gwangjong takes revenge on those snakes and give up on redeeming HS. Now she just cross my patience and I can't see her love as trascend time and space. *walks out. slams the door.*

meeting err.. ranting ends.

HAIL @fathiayunia !!!!!

[jayakris]

15 hours ago, jayakris said:

I guess that makes some sense.  Had dramafever or others were doing the SBS version subs all along, the three of us at darksmurfsub.com would not have spent all our time making the subs... 

By the way I noticed that the SBS version subs posted at subscene was still showing the first line "[This drama has taken a creative license to history.]" which only applies to the international version. The SBS version shows something else at the start.  As we have had in our DSS subs, the SBS version was always showing a different line - [This drama is created with the background of the historical facts from the founding of Goreyo by Taejo Wang Geon until the rise of 4th King Gwang Jong.].  No mention of any creative license and pretty authoritative, that is.

That brings me to another question - why have they steadfastly shown two different lines at the start of the two versions.  Were they promising that the two versions will be different in the story or ending???

 

I am just quoting myself from the earlier post which was during the broadcast time and probably many of you didn't see it.

I had never seen the international version before, and so decided to go and check what it was that they were showing as the starting line.  I was surprised that it was not too different from what was in the SBS version (except for dropping the Taejo-to-Gwangjong timeline details). I am unsure if the translation that we have seen for the international version line is correct. - 본 드라마는 역사를 바탕으로 창작된 것임을 일려드릅니다 does not really become "this drama HAS taken a creative license".  That is actually taking too much of creative license in translating, in my opinion.  It is "created with the background of history" is all it says.  The word "creation" here is like "literary creation/composition" and may hint at some fiction but certainly does not mean that they might twist any known history.

On the other hand, they did drop the word 사실 (fact) in the international version. 역사적 사실을 바탕으로 (with the background of the historical facts) is shown for the domestic viewers and 역사를 바탕으로 (with history as background) is shown in the international version, without the word "facts" .  So, perhaps I can see why the translators felt that the line in the international version was implying 'creative license'.  But it didn't.  They just simply didn't use the word "facts" without realizing that it might be misleading, that's all.  I believe they meant to say nothing different than the crystal-clear line in the SBS version, that is. They only meant that it is a creation based on history. 

So, everybody should know that there was no claim from the drama that they were taking any creative license, in either version.  I have seen many of you commenting in different posts that they expect the drama to take creative license, as they promised.  Well, they did not promise that, as far as I can see!

[qwenli]

54 minutes ago, 40somethingahjumma said:

All these complaints are why week after week I keep thinking that I must be watching a show that’s completely different to everyone else. There must be some 4^th or 5^th version floating out there that’s created from Vogon poetry that I haven’t yet seen.

So has always been the guy to take out the rubbish. Now that he's on the warpath, he's definitely doing what he was born to do I expect.  He's taking out the rubbish in his own indomitable style.

As for So’s apparently newfound ruthlessness… well, he’s always been ruthless. That’s at the core of who he is. Let’s not forget that this is the man who killed a temple full of monks for his mother. It’s part of his duality… the man needing to be loved and the man who was never afraid to do what was necessary. Not sure why that’s a contradiction.

 

just like to address point 1: I think the impact is always greater for those who watched live? versus watching after seeing viewer's comments?

point 2: ahh, yes that guy got a thankless, dirty job to do. 

point 3: well, its true, he killed his horse upon arrival in the drama. Its just that after 10+ eps of being HS's guardian angel, most people forgot and its the writer's fault for not reminding us that this guy grew up in the wolves even after he cleaned up and suits up.

 

[enigmatic_zephy]

oh Wait!!

 

So CR kills king but its okay because she is poor??? and that she is in love???

 

WW wants throne with little to no bloodshed ( initially) to adhere to his responsibilities.. he was being greedy??

WS kills to save his love ( which is HS...because i am not sure if she knows that), he is evil???

Yo kills to keep his power.. then he is evil..

 

Is HS freaking mad? 

 

 

Being selfish is 'deserved' by hS and WH.. but not by WS?

I mean did you serioyusly lose your marbles HS?

[lyserose]

@Lyna @antiherofans There will always be "what could have been" when comes to this drama because rarely does a drama gaining so much hype coupled with big studio budget like this and therefore from the get go, everyone is expecting something really epic.

With so many characters (the many princes), 2 romances for the female lead (which is not normal in K-dramas) and 3 kings before Gwangjong, they should have known that 20 episodes is not sufficient or at least mapped up the plot and segment better to fit 20 episodes. Come on, the production had all the luxury and for goodness sake, 6 months of filming and a really solid source material and a strong reference in the C-drama itself. How could it become like this? How could?

On a different note, the best things I feel that I could take out of this drama is definitely LEE JOON GI. He is not only smoking all hot and smexy (most credits to Wang So in early episodes) but also his performance is truly stellar, the best out of any K-actors this year and I am not even exaggerating. Secondly would be the instrumental OST which is hauntingly beautiful. And the rest of the credits I will want to give to Kang Ha Neul, Hong Jong Hyun and Kang Ha Na. If there's ever a sequel (to make right of all the wrongs), I only want these 4 to stay.

[krysyuy]

16 minutes ago, eunki said:

I've collected my mental power and watched last ep. again.. Can anyone share views on these points? 

When WS proposed and HS rejected why he went on with his fave "I won't let you go, you're mine" stuff??   Is it that he thought she rejected because didn't love and want to marry him really much?? For me HS reasons are very clear from her words and I see she is unhappy about it, thus it's a sacrifice from her side, but... suddenly I remembered WS reaction when HS decided to go to palace to marry king TaeJo. He said if she didn't want it she should have tried to escape no matter what consequences would be. Did he expect her to say yes without regards to situation? 

BTW I find it interesting that it was HS who initiated BOTH confession and proposal. Would he propose and marry her himself? With all this pressure and political common sense..

And later on, he saw her beside praying rocks but didn't approach. Is it because he saw her smiling to CR and thought she doesn't care about wedding night?? Honestly I hoped so much that that night he will visit her and they will have it like their wedding night.. but another frustration  he even didn't show up..

I will be thankful for any input) I need some logical reasons to help me overcome this angst

I think So went off on his "you are mine" spiel because, even though Soo gives her blessing, he knows this will hurt her, that this will hurt their relationship. She says she's fine, but he knows she isn't. So is very aware of her problems with polygamy, and this case with YH is completely different to the niece he sent away to live in a temple. Despite the fact that Soo tells him she will never leave him, you can tell he is insecure about this. His expression is never comforted when she says this - he still has his doubts and he's afraid that she will leave him, so much so that he even has nightmares about this. So is desperate to keep her by his side no matter what and he knows that by marrying someone else, he is failing to live up to a promise he made to her. He needs to reaffirm it aloud - she is his, she cannot leave him. He needs her. But because he is forced to marry - with it comes a large amount of guilt and creates a rift between them. You can see this in how So acts afterwards. This was the catalyst for him becoming truly distant with her.

He definitely would've proposed and married her himself, even if she was the one to initiate it that night. He outright asks her. SHE is the one who rejects him despite initiating the proposal. I felt like that was actually kind of cruel - you could see his heart breaking when all she can do is smile at him sadly. He was going to marry her, eff everything else. When she says no, the last vestiges of our So starts to crumble. He's realizing he only traded his collar for the golden shackles of the throne.

I don't think he approached her because, again, he feels guilty about failing her. He claims that he'll do what he says, but he could not keep this promise. He shows up at her door, but doesn't go in. I think he felt like he didn't deserve to come to her because HE is the reason she is hurting. It's his fault. This is similar to the situation when he became engaged to his niece. He distanced himself then as well because he failed to keep his promise. (And while he may distance himself from her, he still cannot give her up.)

 

16 minutes ago, millie10468 said:

I've been meaning to ask this from a while back (but never got around to it): Are people mistaking Soo leaving or going anywhere with Jung (even through marriage) as that she fell for him or her feelings for So changed somehow? We're all aware that her "marriage" to Jung was one of convenience and not because she had feelings for him, right?...

I ask this because I see people in other places getting furious talking about Soo "ending up" with Jung and I'm like...what?

Honestly, I think it's just the fact that Jung technically "wins" since he's the one who gets to marry Soo and be with her in her final moments (even though she doesn't love him). That plus Jung is reallyyyyyy annoying. lol I doubt we'd see half as many complaints if it were Baek Ah she was leaving with. I've actually seen a lot of posts wishing that were the case instead.

[briseis]

The Fool and His Bride

The masks that are Wang So and Hae Soo wearing are based on the famous Hahoe masks.

Imaetal (The Scholar’s Servant/The Fool)

The Imae mask has drooping eyes and eyebrows, a crooked nose, and a faint smile. The cheeks droop and the smiling shape of its mouth looks foolish but innocent. The  facial expression on the whole also looks foolish and naive. According to legend, Ho, who was said to be the maker of the Hahoe masks, died leaving the lower jaw of the Imae mask unfinished, and thus the Imae mask has been handed down up to the present without the lower jaw.

According to physiognomy, if the nose is crooked, some other part of the body will be crooked also (no doubt reference to WS’s own scar). It is said that a person whose eyes droop at the edge has a gentle and good nature. The Imae does not slander or do harm to others, but rather he himself is slandered and harmed by others (THE SHEER SYMBOLISM). This suggests that he seems to have a foolish character on the one hand but to be of a good and gentle nature on the other. 

Gaksital (The Bridal Mask)

She is generally quiet and calm, but her lips are firmly closed. This expression connotes that she is trying to keep her new marriage, and her tough life in her heart. 

 

[Yippeun_eonnie]

Are we really going to hit 2000 pages...DAEBAK!!!! 

 

TOO LITTLE… TOO LATE

October 25, 2016

I cannot count how many times So walked away from Soo in this episode. Soo makes a difficult decision, one which would cause heartbreak and tears all around. So grapples with the fact that he has no one besides Baek Ah and Soo. This frightens him as he is fully aware that he could be left with no one if he continues exiling and putting to death people the two care about. This just sums up what a tragic fate and life So has. Period. His path to self-destruction always seemed to be the only path for him.

Yeon Hwa rattles on why she is a suitable candidate and Soo isn’t, and reminds Soo of that darned scar that practically forbids her from marrying the king. At the same time, Wook is taunting So of the same thing and the only way So can marry Soo is to give up the throne. What will he choose – the crown or Soo? So answers tautly he isn’t going to give up both.

Suddenly, So is faced with a barrage of people insisting on his marriage and gasp! They even know about his rumoured relationship with a Damiwon palace lady… Even Wook’s mom jumps on the bandwagon. She announces she is abandoning her son and giving her daughter to the king. She hands him a book – filled with Soo’s notes in Hangul. The empress claims Soo is writing in an alien language that no one can read and is not an ordinary person. That is, So should be wary of her. But So doesn’t budge.

Soo informs Chae Ryung that the king has allowed her to remain in the palace. Chae Ryung is glad to hear the news but she is more anxious about the recent gossip that Yeon Hwa is going to be queen. She even asked the Damiwon maids to prepare for a royal wedding.

Ji Mong interrupts their conversation, and he and Soo head to the former gathering place of the princes. He reminisces of the good times they had and Soo acknowledges his love for the princes. Ji Mong confesses he does hold them dear and that’s why he is going to be blunt with her – give up So.

So won’t give her up so Soo should be the one who does so. Soo replies that she doesn’t want to – why should she give up on him after all the suffering and pain she endured to be with him? Er… correct me if I’m wrong… I don’t think she suffered much. She suffered much more when she was building castles in the air with Wook. I think So suffered helluva much more in his countless attempts to protect her.

JI Mong enunciates that Soo possesses nothing that can help So – she can give him comfort, but she can’t give him strength. Plus, she can never marry So due to her lack of all things deemed important in a king’s bride.
So is alone in the throne room, mulling over his relationship with Soo. She appears and begs him to go out of the palace with her to unwind. He mutters that he needs to prep his bodyguards but Soo hands him a mask and says no one will recognise him if he wears it.

They head out to town and have some sweet fun with tons of cuddles. Lee Jun Ki looks mighty hot in this getup and yet another new hairdo. Soo takes So to the prayer tower she has built and he teases her she made him come all the way here to wrench a proposal out of him.

Read details at 

https://breathlesssurvival.wordpress.com/2016/10/25/too-little-too-late/

[Yippeun_eonnie]

LOL

Spoiler

 

 

 And we're on 2nd place now but it hits 2 digits

Spoiler

 

 

[bitofmadness]

50 minutes ago, liddi said:

This! ROFL! Thank you for that much-needed good laugh! You know, she could have just as easily accomplished that feat in Damiwon and the palace. Plenty of still water there  

Finding humour is the only way I can cope with all this madness. Black comedy anyone?  It would be epic if she ends up drowning in a Goryeo lake and rises from future Wang So's bathtub ( parallel scene with the beginning). I tend to avoid watching incomplete dramas, but I am putting SHR in one of my exceptions. I don't know why I'm putting myself through the pain honestly. Maybe it's because I've followed this thread since December...I can't back out now. 

[pixiebelle]

23 minutes ago, lyserose said:

@Lyna @antiherofans There will always be "what could have been" when comes to this drama because rarely does a drama gaining so much hype coupled with big studio budget like this and therefore from the get go, everyone is expecting something really epic.

With so many characters (the many princes), 2 romances for the female lead (which is not normal in K-dramas) and 3 kings before Gwangjong, they should have known that 20 episodes is not sufficient or at least mapped up the plot and segment better to fit 20 episodes. Come on, the production had all the luxury and for goodness sake, 6 months of filming and a really solid source material and a strong reference in the C-drama itself. How could it become like this? How could?

On a different note, the best things I feel that I could take out of this drama is definitely LEE JOON GI. He is not only smoking all hot and smexy (most credits to Wang So in early episodes) but also his performance is truly stellar, the best out of any K-actors this year and I am not even exaggerating. Secondly would be the instrumental OST which is hauntingly beautiful. And the rest of the credits I will want to give to Kang Ha Neul, Hong Jong Hyun and Kang Ha Na. If there's ever a sequel (to make right of all the wrongs), I only want these 4 to stay.

 

Well said ! Your last two posts really summed up my feelings about this drama. 

Further, they added Lady Oh & King romance, 10th prince and wife romance, Baek Ah & Woo Hee romance, Evil empress and 3rd's politics.....the whole drama is like a buffet gone wrong. 

They took the main threads of development from novel ： 8th-HS jade bangle issue, 4th saving HS's life from arrow, the line "行到水穷处，坐看云起时“, 4th killing HS's friend(spy) etc BUT because of the poor pacing and editing, the emotional punch is just not there. It just feels like a big bowl of diluted soup 

LJG is the only saving grace for me. 

There is no sugar coating it. I hope the team really do a post-mortem and produce better work next time. 

[deabakdrama]

2 hours ago, moonlover399993 said:

Next week WS better take his statement back when he told her he never wants to see her again. I wanna see him take it back or do something kind in return, ANYTHING, or else I'll transport myself to Goryeo, go up to him and kick him where the sun don't shine, king or no king. At least YH won't have kids, haha. I'm really taking masochist to a whole new level. I had enough of them playing with my heart and feelings!

@moonlover399993, Can I go together with you? I think we should plan to go before next Monday because worried WS has no sense of regret ... I wanna to slap him as well, how dare he sleep with YH and torture HS ?

 

[kingpin]

A mother always a mother even she was a worst mother, WS she was still his mother, and he was sad when she died.

 

 

Naver 

[lyserose]

9 minutes ago, MiNo88 said:

Ha! Same as you mate, I'm so happy to see the brand new WangSo. This is him i'm waiting for, and now that i get it, i'm satisfied LOL

The thing with HaeSoo is she's too attached with hear heart. I know she has that pure heart, but that's not enough to be a queen. Her feeling clouded her judgement, that's why she got angry with WangSo for killing ChaeRyung. All Wangso wants is to protect her.

I'm not gonna get my hope ups about the ending because in the real history there is no Haesoo. And even this drama has taken a creativity with the plot and characters, the ending must not defy the truth.

 

Hi. I am glad we are on the same page with regard to the new Wang So. Same here, this is the Wang So that I have been waiting for, a smart king who could outsmart his rivals using his brain and not letting his heart clouding his judgment. Don't you agree that power is what making a man sexy? And here I can see a sexy Wang So, not full glory yet until he managed to control his cabinet but he is promisingly heading there. The thing is, one should not view Wang So all the time in romance context, instead should view him as whole, in a broader perspective. We are modern women and we all know well that love alone does not make the world go round. 

 

[cojulie]

6 hours ago, may6 said:

I can't  accept her as queen ....period ...if she were presented in a much more likable way like her counterpart in the chinese  drama..then i would have in some way or form , accept her as a qualified person to be next to WS...he is a soul starved for affection...i feel sorry that he's not going to get that ....or maybe just maybe and this is my delusion....something will happen and HS will end up being adopted by the  huambo clan ,she is not sick but perhaps pregnant ...YH will die and HS will be queen daemok ...WS reconciles with jung and everyone alive changes name ...14 becomes a support to 4 and 13 leaves palace life to live WH or to simply avoid politics after her dead ....that is if she commits suicide .... then HS will tell him that he needs to distort reality a bit and record himself as a tyrant whom killed all his people, so by the time she is born this is what she learns and by 2016 she can arrive with that mentality and watch history unfold ...the maiden name of KG queen daemok  is unknown so this can happen...or we can have happily  ever after 2016 reincarnation ...i can dream ...the dream won't be lost until the drama shows us the 20 episode .....

 

Right - like if she was a queen who supported him and could be civilized with HS and really allow both of them to co-exist I'd totally be okay with her being queen and even be okay with the idea of them having kids after HS is gone!

5 hours ago, Kelly86 said:

I can't be the only one who thinks the So we have now has always been the So we've known right? Adding that he just has more authority now. I don't think So has changed at all thus the name "wolf" was given to him in the beginning for a reason not just now. He's someone who does what he wants and acts selfish and is public about it even if he don't mean it deep down because he lacked love and affection from his mother/family. Its his way of acting out and handling things. 

I think if anything he just toned it down a bit when he bonded with Baek Ah and Soo because for once in his life he had ppl who were on his side, cared about his feelings & actions so he toned it down because he finally felt understood/cared for but the FACT that he has always been the lone wolf didn't change. Here and there we saw that especially when the situation called for it. Like when he choked JM asking for another way for HS out of marriage with the King. We are just seeing it more again since he is DISCOVERING A LOT OF EVIL DEEDS & SECRETS. I don't blame him. As nice as anyone is I think the monster will come out of them when all that nasty stuff is surfacing. 

I think I know why/can guess why So is so overly MAD/upset/Disgusted that the man Soo once loved is Wook. 

1. Main reason: Wook is the mastermind behind all the evilness and So just recently found that out.

2. Wook is the reason and again the mastermind behind his un-wanted/forced marriage to YH.

3. He never would of guess that of all the people out there it would be Wook. So that took him by surprise. Yes he was aware she had loved someone before and wasn't bother much by it but Wook prob never crossed his mind as a contender. Why because this is the guy that was married to her beloved cousin of all ppl!!! and when she asked So to forsake and not kill Wook, So prob thought of it as he's pretty much family to her. It never crossed So's mind that its b/c Wook was her LOVER and now discovering HOW SLY/EVIL Wook is and how Soo can even LOVE such a person is fueding jealousy and rage in So's heart to the point of disgust but ladies it won't last long since So is already so deeply in LOVE with Soo too. It was a just in the moment I am so effin MAD kind of thing or more like "I don't even want to believe it, and if I have too I rather not see you".

 

I totally agree.  I think he's always been on the rougher side and HS brought out a side we didn't know he had.  We're talking about a guy who killed his horse upon coming back into Songak just as an excuse not to return to Shinju and killed a temple full of (murderous) monks to hide the crimes his mother committed.  He's not acting any different or being any more cruel than we was - but he is trying to be somewhat more considerate to HS compared to the previous him who didn't care about anyone.  And the fact that he has been able to form a bromantic relationship with BA in the process and wants to provide rice to citizens who were hurt during construction shows he's evolved a little but at the end of the day, when he's pissed - he's still true to himself.

 

4 hours ago, MAROSA_JIN said:

 

ScarletHeartRyeo :10.1 %
===================

will they follow these scenes?

I liked how in C version Rouxi told 4th prince that she was from the future, I really want HS to tell WS  #ScarletHeartRyeo#BuBuJingXin

 

 

LOL but the 4th prince though.  He's looking at her like "DAFUQ?"

3 hours ago, qwenli said:

I am so traumatise with last night's ep, i went back to watch cheese in thevtrap.....my last depressing show

Am out of here for awhile....

 

Funny, while watching this series I find a lot of similarities between the leads and equally as absurd endings.  The male lead is and always has been a bit cruel and honestly, not very skilled in handling situations with grace (while the CITT lead does know how to fake appearances at least).  The female lead ends up falling for the male lead trying to understand them but at the end of the day, can't, and it causes them to drift apart.  I hated how CITT though, he just randomly left to self-reflect because I doubt that changed a thing but hey, even that had a better ending then SHR ....

2 hours ago, MAROSA_JIN said:

 

 

 

Objectively, they're both very good looking and would make some cute kids.  It's cute they swapped hats and I'm sure HN is just a sweetheart in real life.  But not objectively, RUDE.  Way to pour salt in our wounds.  I hope she randomly realizes her wrongdoings and redeems herself somehow before the drama ends so I can justify their mini-mes.

1 hour ago, kokoro_ai said:

LMAO something light after so much dark

 

This was hilarious!  Loved it and definitely a needed pick me up.

BTS is really cute and very happy - I wish it could stay like this!  I like how LJG reacts when he's messing up his lines and how cute he is when he laughs.. he's like a little kid.  I can't really hear the sound because my son is watching some really loud Halloween cartoons right now before bed but I'll summarize the parts I can understand, which is basically off the subtitles/captions...

While HS is telling him the story (of red riding hood? Can't tell if it's the same because it's too soft but it's where he's laying down on her lap).  He yawns and says "Boring/Not very interesting.  Tell me a different story!" (with aegyo ) .  Then she says something about being covered in blood and he's like "I'm scared!".  It's cute when HS is looking at him then he wipes him lip.. he forgot his lines and is like "what was it (my lines)?!".  When they're doing that scene where he has to write, he messes up his line and immediately says "don't talk, wait, I'll do it again" but tries to repeat the lines to himself and messes up again.  Tries again then messes up and says to HS "Don't look at me alright?" (Is her gaze making you uncomfortable... hehehehe).  Tries again, then says "ah why can't I get the lines right? I'm ruined/doomed".. Then the line where he says all he got is rice soup (pronounces rice wrong), he suddenly says "I want to eat rice soup... ahhhh I'm going crazy".  In the scene with WS and BA, BA says "If I eat that, I'll die" and WS says "it's fine".  WS starts looking for sauce and BA goes hyungnim!  I can't really tell what's going in the scene with all 3 of them eating, but the caption says something about them keep laughing during filming?

@MAROSA_JIN

Twas a beautifully tragic scene.  And I loved his "revenge".  Kill 'em with kindness - well with his mother anyway!