Quantcast
Jump to content
kaiskloset

[Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner

Recommended Posts

5 hours ago, jayakris said:

 

I apologize if I am not as clued in on every line she said, like many of you may be, but did she ask him to give up the throne? When?  You mean the line at the end of Ep 16?  If so, she didn't ask him to give it up, and only asked a "what if" to understand what he thought. Right?

Even when she mentioned "what if", her intention is clear that she would like him to give up his quest for the throne. Otherwise, I do not know of what her "what if" actually means, which to me evidently implies that she has thought of such possibility. Question is, why would she though of such possibility when she had experienced first hand of all those torments for being powerless. As a viewer, I am not expecting the quest for power in the same way of Queen Yoo is but sufficient to have a power to protect oneself (survival) and those you care for as well as preventing unjust brutality. Just that plain simple which I feel, as a modern woman, Haesoo could at least figure out on her own. The conclusion that I could derived from her mindset is that she is an idealistic without having sense of reality. Actually, I kind of putting those words to describe her rather nicely when I can sum up in a more simple way that she is D***. I am sorry but seriously, I could not like her.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, 40somethingahjumma said:

I apologize for the cutting the top half of the post but I have reproduced the part that I will be addressing in my post.

While I appreciate your perspective and note that you've done a good job articulating it, I think you're a little too hard on Su. There have been many criticisms laid at Su's door... some of it quite valid. But while you and I have access to the big picture of what's going, she doesn't have that kind of omniscient perspective. While we demand that Su demonstrate trust in So, it is equally important that we demand the same thing of So. Yes it is obvious to everyone and blind Freddy that he loves her BUT he doesn't always tell her everything about what he is doing or why he's doing it. That could cause a woman to be a little confused and even insecure. And no woman can live on miniscule information and just be expected to trust that her man is doing the right thing by her without any proper explanation of what he is thinking or feeling.

You and I know that when a relationship breaks down, it's seldom just the fault of one party. When there's a lack of communication, misunderstanding ensues which is exactly how the show portrayed it. 

I love So to death and I think he's a wonderful K drama character. One of the best in fact. But I personally thought he handled the marriage to the princess situation very badly. I don't doubt it's an unpopular opinion. I understand why he did what he did because he was embarrassed about breaking trust but he shut her down before she could ask him for some kind of explanation which is where he fell short. However, as he himself said, he did make promises to So which he couldn't keep and she didn't know why except having to contend with rumours that he had put the throne ahead of her.

Su knew exactly what So was going to do when they agreed to meet at the prayer pagoda. She was all dressed up for it even wearing that hairpin he gave her which had come to signify love between them. She was all giddy and excited. Her disappointment was palpable when first he took his time coming and then he pretended that he had forgotten what he was going to say. When he arrived he knew that she knew what he had intended when he asked her out but he put a kibosh in it because the issue of protecting the King and the princess through marriage had come between them. At least that's what he thought. As I said in a previous post, So didn't even give Su the chance to respond to this new complication. He made the choice for her which I thought was quite wrong. The choice to marry the princess was his but the choice to remain with him in spite of it was Su's. 

Su also knew that So was lying when he said he had forgotten what he was about to confess but she thought he had suddenly gotten cold feet and told him to take his time. In that sequence of double-talk between them she was also trying to tell him that he didn't have hold back any longer and she was ready to move to the next level with him. But he didn't think he deserved to move to the next level with her because of the marriage of expediency but his pride didn't allow him to make excuses.

Maybe he thought too that he was protecting her in some fashion but that's the problem. People in adult relationships talk things through not cocoon each other from harsh realities or think that they can do so with no long-term consequences. Notice too that when Su finally got her explanation she voluntarily admitted that she had given Jeong refuge at her place. When that drainpipe got unclogged, their ability to communicate honestly and freely returned. 

Perhaps it was foolish of Su to hide Jeong in her room. However, communication between them had reached an all time low and I put the fault squarely on So's shoulders. He had refused to deal with the elephant in the room and she couldn't read his motives. And rumours were flying around that he had his eye on the throne. I personally think she has some right to be more than a little bit suspicious 

Let's not kid ourselves. So lied to Su. By commission and by omission. If we're going to blame Su for anything it's for not pressing the point further before they reached such a low point. BUT it's obvious from how upset and hurt she was that she did trust him and was definitely in love with him.

The other thing is that while So's love for Su is great and that it's much easier to sympathize with his perspective as a result, he is also someone less encumbered with fears of the future. He is someone, who as a result of circumstances, doesn't worry about fate or destiny and he bulldozes his way through life. It's admirable on some level but that brusque and open nature has also has put him and Su in some jeopardy because EVERYBODY in the palace (except for Jeong apparently) knows that they are a thing. It's a double-edged sword. It gets used against him as leverage to make life hard for the two of them.

Eventually he realises it and becomes more circumspect. He breaks it off with her under the cover that it's about the lack of trust between them when it was really about him taking a stand regarding the throne. And protecting her. Yes, he lied to her again. We might justify it as a "white lie" but it is still a lie. Of course it kills him to do it but she doesn't know that. In fact, the admirable thing is that she maintains her faith in him despite that. A part of her knows he's lying but she doesn't know why but for two years she waits for him and some kind of explanation that's still forthcoming. Contrary to what people think, she has learnt something from the quickie wedding to the princess. She knows that So broke off with her for a reason other than the one he gave and although she doesn't know what it is yet, she is willing to wait for his explanation.

The issue with not telling So about Eun's whereabouts. I never thought it was about a lack of trust on her part. Su confirmed it in Ep. 16 that it wasn't. The big overriding fear wasn't so much that she didn't trust him and he would end up killing his brother but the fact that he would kill his brother and the pain he would have to suffer for it. He was utterly crushed when he thought he had killed Yo, a brother he didn't even like but a full brother nonetheless. On the stargazing birthday night he confessed he was jealous of Jeong's favoured position with his mother to the point where he wondered if it was in his nature to hate and kill his brothers. Su, of course comforted him by saying that sibling rivalry is a very normal part of life. She didn't condemn or look at him as if he was a freak. This confirmed to So that she was the woman for him and he was ready to say what's on his heart. Except of course he doesn't which leaves her high and dry.

Feel free to disagree but I think a lot of people have misread Su's words to So at the end. I hear a lot of accusations of not trusting him and demanding that he give up the throne. That's not what I heard and saw. People insist that Su trust So because he has already proven his great love for her repeatedly. But trust needs to be based on something or some kind of information. For two years Su didn't hear hide nor hair from So, she didn't know what he was doing or planning. She didn't even know why he really left. So suddenly returns to her, they make love, play house and the next thing she knows he wants to become King. What is she supposed to think? Especially when he doesn't deny that part of the reason why he left her in the first place was to take the throne. Trust is good but blind trust is deadly. No one knows that better than Su especially after her experience with Uk whom she trusted blindly and it almost led to her destruction.

Frankly what I see is a woman who is learning. She's heard it all before. A man telling her that he's taking the throne in part to protect her. Well, yeah, that sounds really familiar. Uk told her that and look at what that's done to his soul. Her scepticism is warranted IMO. I'm not surprised if she isn't rushing enthusiastically to embrace that idea after witnessing what that purpose has done to Uk and changed him into a brother murderer. Personally I like what she does. She questions him and they talk like adults. She wants to know why he's changed his mind. Once upon a time he told everyone who'd care to listen that she was his priority but now he's changed his tune. I think she has every right to know especially if he's asking her to remain by his side as he goes for the throne. To his credit he understands her scepticism and offers an explanation. The question she poses to him is similar to the one she asks Uk but framed slightly differently. Personally I think it's an important one. Because the answer will tell her if she can follow him. If we're asking her to think more than I think we should respect the fact that she is trying to think more.

Su loves So and she's proven it by becoming intimate with him. But she also cares about his soul too because she knows the kind of weight he's had to shoulder for killing for much of his young life.

I would also like to add that there's always been a kind of foolhardy streak to Su. She's always been foolishly brave. The way she mouthed off at So for throwing her off his saddle like a bag, taking on Eun and giving him a black eye and rushing headlong to rescue Jeong from bandits with absolutely no plan of attack whatsoever. It is her most attractive trait... it is what the men love about her most but on the other hand, it does get her into all kinds of scrapes.

But as the Latin proverb says, fortune favours the brave... and that applies equally to both Su and So. In some ways they both take more chances than they should but... guess what, it always seems to work out for them in the end.

There's a lot more I could say but I'm going to leave it here because I have a ton of things to do.

 

Hi, just woke up and suddenly read your post. I agree with you. Even tho I love Wang So to death (I am crazy for him right now) but I can't say he always do the right thing. He even one time force kiss Soo just because he is depressed with his mother (Wang So, that's a big No No, my love). She should probably slap him in the face. And then he sort of "kidnap" her from the palace and that is a dangerous move. She could get punished for that. He is a prince so his punishment probably won't be as hard as punishment for a servant.

And, we always say Hae Soo is from the future so she should make a better choice, judgment, etc. JUST BECAUSE YOU ARE FROM THE FUTURE, IT IS NOT A GUARANTEE YOU ARE GONNA BE SMARTER THAN PEOPLE FROM THE PAST. The most logic thing is you will make more mistakes because you don't know anything about that period. How much do we know about history 1000 years ago? We know history only from books, movies and internet. I think it is the same when we read books about how to live in the jungle, how to survive, etc. But when you are in the middle of the jungle, alone, it is a different story. Your first instinct is to survive. You will do anything to survive. And that is exactly what Hae Soo did, try to survive.

I know sometime i do get frustrated over Hae Soo. But if the writer choose to write Hae Soo as one smart, ambitious, strong character than we will have two strong female character because we already have that YH. It will be JAK OK JUNG (Jak Ok Jung Vs Queen Inhyeon) fighting for the king's love. Wang So already have strong, smart, ambitious YH in his life. Does he love her? NO. He fall in love with someone that is totally different from him. Someone who is so pure, so beautiful, yet so fragile at the same time. He fall in love for someone (in my opinion) as pure as snow. Someone who can make him laugh, he can cry and be him self around her, and make him forget about all his pain.
 

Sorry for my English. I hope you can understand my writing

  • Like 24

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, millie10468 said:

@jerboa83 Sorry to butt in :flushed: but that's an interesting discussion and I'd love put my 2 cents in

Imho, there are about two different ways we could assume So's relationship with Queen SMSS was when he was young.

1. She loved/doted on him

I think I've mentioned this before but this is the option I tend to subscribe to. I believe Queen SMSS did love (or at least, have some affection for) So when he was younger, before the scar.

I say this because when Tae was alive, he'd probably have been her favorite since he was closest to the throne. Yo would have been the neglected child (more like a spare heir, if anything) and if Jung was not yet alive at that point, So would have been the youngest and the one she'd dote on the most, going by what we see of her relationship with Jung. Her use of So as a way to threaten Taejo that fateful day tells me that Taejo was probably partial to So (we already knew that Mu was his favorite son). If this is true, we could hypothesize that even if she did love So because he was her baby. she also likely liked that Taejo liked him a lot. Her subsequent feelings for him probably stem from the fact that he's the living proof of her darkest hours. His failure to persuade Taejo that day to not get married, though no fault of his own, corrupted and distorted any motherly feelings she'd ever felt for him. His life after that moment literally meant nothing to her because if it did mean something, then the desperate her of that fateful moment was still would never disappear.

I feel like one of the reasons So was unable to let go of his hopeful feelings that she would pity him or even love him is because he does have memories of being loved by her, of being treated the way Jung is currently being treated. Of course, by now those few years of love have been trumped by the years of neglect and hate she has towards him. However, we can't forget that So is a deeply loyal person. He's a person who can subsist on the smallest amount of care given to him. Those memories of his few happy years were likely what helped him go on as he hoped he could receive even a modicum of those feelings he remembers from his memories. It's why it takes him so long to "get over" his longing for his mom. His failure to get over it can be explained if he still had some expectation of genuine care from her. His expectations bred his disappointment over and over again

 

2. She didn't think much of him (like you said)

Of course, So's failure to get over his maternal longing could also be explained by evidence that he wanted from her what he'd never received in the first place. That's where your reasoning would make sense--it still holds true to his expectations breeding disappointment.

The only reason I don't buy this is that I don't believe he could have expected something if he'd never been given it before or never even had a taste of it. I believe he knows that a mother is not required to love or pity her son, he would have just liked it if she had.


I didn't meant to imply that the queen didn't love him since the beginning... She probably did, to a certain degree (maybe not SO much? We'll never know...), but what we DO know is that So was Taejo's second favorite after the CP. He said it himself before dying. The point here is the one I underlined before: "he's the living proof of her darkest hours".

Actually, I need to clarify a couple of things: who's the eldest between So and Yo? I still haven't figure it out, since their age is so close... I thought that So was younger, since he's the 4th prince and Yo is the 3rd...

I 100% agree on this: Wang So is a person who can subsist on the smallest amount of care given to him. Those memories of his few happy years were likely what helped him go on as he hoped he could receive even a modicum of those feelings he remembers from his memories. It's why it takes him so long to "get over" his longing for his mom. His failure to get over it can be explained if he still had some expectation of genuine care from her. His expectations bred his disappointment over and over again

  • Like 9

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, qwenli said:

There is something bothering me and I just have to post about it. As someone posted earlier, it is very expensive to move the entire crew and cast repeatedly for filming. Hence I would think usually they will group the filming by location.

After ep 16, when I kept seeing this location, I just think, yes they must have not filmed in chronological order. 

This is the wide angle dating location of HS and WS, in ep 16, HS was standing there as seasons pass by from Spring to Winter to mark the passing of time.

It is quite obvious that the forced kiss of ep 9, the star gazing of ep 14 and breakup and backhug of ep 16 were all done in this location. So they may camp around this location over a few days to complete all these scenes. I think its a great testament of the actors' skill to jump eps and still deliver their roles. 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

yes @qwenli ..they shooting scenes for Ep.14 (kiss) and this scene (HS standing there in Ep.16) was at the same day and location..if you notice, in ep.14, she hurt herself with the hair pin and in this Ep.16, there's a scratch at her neck which is obviously they forgot to wipe if off coz it'does not make sense that the scratch at her neck still look fresh, like it happened yesterday. We all know that had happened perhaps months ago..

it's impossible to shoot chronological order... the schedule that they had to make for each episodes is not an easy things to do..there are thousands of scenes for the whole drama (Ep,1- Ep.20)...i've seen a shooting schedule for a local drama in my country and my friend is having a headache just because she had to arrange the cast for each scenes depend on the cast availability on that day..before they start shooting, each actor/actress has given their own availability schedule to the production and it's the production team who will arrange the schedule for each cast..

ep16year.jpg

 

  • Like 16

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The new stills kinda boring. except for that one pic of our new king checking his sns on his modern mobile. love that one.

I woke up hoping to see new still of the mask scene. 

Is it a definite it will be on ep 17 or will it be for tomorrow?

@ruizaio did that meeting took place? how's the demand survey going? do we have promising numbers from the survey so far?

@akinahana89 the project's gonna be so cool judging from the pictures posted. thanx for organizing it. :)

  • Like 13

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@atgirlina We are getting more and more responses and the rate seems promising. I am not allowed to divulge any details publicly, but for the most part, we're all just waiting for the show to be over to really get things started. Ah well.

 

  • Like 18

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, ruizaio said:

@atgirlina We are getting more and more responses and the rate seems promising. I am not allowed to divulge any details publicly, but for the most part, we're all just waiting for the show to be over to really get things started. Ah well.

 

Excellent news. let us know if there's anything more we can do to help. i told all my friends to take the survey already. 

Fighting!

  • Like 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, briseis said:

Forever Apart - Separated by the 38th Parallel

That moment when you are about to fantasize about how HS would visit in the modern days all the places which are so important to her and Wang So, or HIS GRAVE, but then you realize that they are are situated in Kaesong, IN A FREAKING NORTH KOREA. This gives the WHOLE SEPARATION THEME A COMPLETELY NEW MEANING! Even his tomb is in the ONE PLACE ON EARTH WHERE SHE WON’T BE ABLE TO GO (even Mt. Everest would be a better option). I hate it when reality interferes with my OTP fantasies! 

 

In case you are planning on visiting NK any time soon, Gwangjong’s tomb is called Honrung (헌릉/憲陵).  The tomb survives in fair condition, though it is missing its guardian statues. It is located in Samgo-ri, Kaesong, and is listed as North Korean Cultural Asset #545.

38°2′24″N 126°31′19″E  (YES! YES, I REALLY DID SEARCH IT ON GOOGLE MAPS! And it wasn’t easy to find a photo of Gwangjong’s grave - since NK isn’t really Google images friendly - but in the end, I succeeded!)

 

Wow you are amazing . 

Didn't notice either. Then So Soo are indeed really seperate in two "different world". 

 

 

  • Like 14

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, butterflysaga said:

@nidcha202 That fanart is exquisite :wub: I wish all our OTP can mending the fences and find their closure.. even though WY & YH. All characters deserve to be happy~~

@junejungki Yaaa.. you lucky eclipses! hahaha.. Tell me what should I do to answer till I get WangSo???? :tounge_wink:

Hahahah!! I dont know. I just answer honestly. But I can say, I hv Seon Deok character in me. 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, MoOnLoVeRz said:

OMO!e9140e3150cd6962491a239a2c9a09de-d7nofok

 

Is this picture edited? Or it is official that SoSoo are getting married?  *hold my breath 

Edited by LyraYoo
please do not quote images
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, millie10468 said:

@jerboa83 Yo was born in 923. So was born in 925. Yo was definitely the eldest.


Thanks for clarifying it!
Now it makes more sense that the Queen cared less for So than Yo, since So's chances of becoming the CP were even less than Yo's... She probably knew that the king cared about So, and when it came to choose a son to "sacrifice" (by risking his life in that dangerous game), she chose So, not Yo., for both these reasons. That's what I had meant to say in my previous post...

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, violet_my said:

Is this picture edited? Or it is official that SoSoo are getting married?  *hold my breath 

 

Are they married? really ?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...