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[Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner


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1 hour ago, 40somethingahjumma said:

@faeriealice and @yongwonhi4jfc

Excuse me while I chime in. You were having such a fascinating discussion that it led me on a particular train of thought.

 

There were two things that were said in Ep. 15 that I'd like to relate to this discussion about Su-So's romance and how an "epic romance" might play out in relation to that:

"Wolves are known to follow one female wolf until death" -- Super Baddie Yo

"For you feelings and marriage are all just silly games. They aren't life and death like they are for me. Don't be confident that you
will not change, no one says such things in the palace." -- Yeon Hwa

 

With reference to the above quotes, there is evidently a clear message that this romance between Su and So is an anomaly... an anomaly of Goryeo and perhaps an anomaly of history. Their romance shouldn't exist and can't exist in the midst of an epic game of thrones battle royale and brutal palance politics. This is absolutely no rom com. Their love may be a refuge from the storms of palace gamemanship but that's all it is. (Sorry!) Such a love doesn't belong in Goryeo and as it turns out very dangerous in the wrong hands. Love like that holds people hostage and is potentially explosive within the system. There might be moments of respite for the couple but their romance is one that cannot thrive in such times without grand gestures of defiance that have serious consequences.

When Yo (sorry, can't take him seriously as King but he's still loads of fun) calls So a wolf, or a beast and juxtaposes that with monogamy, it's a bit of a shock to the system for us modern types. For him monogamy is only some thing some animals do. A rarity... an abnormality. Polygamy is the norm... it's a true human instinct to mate endlessly and to corpulate with multiple women because it is a privilege offered only to men. 

For a prince to dedicate his entire life to one woman is a completely radical concept. In Goryeo at least. It's so radical that Yo attributes it to So's animalistic tendencies. For him it defies convention and it defies reason. It isn't just an insult but an observation that what So is involved in is not the norm. For that So will pay and he (Yo) will make sure of it.

Yeon Hwa whatever her faults are has a high degree of self-awareness. She knows exactly what she is. She also acknowledges that she needs love but in order to that, she needs to survive first and foremost in this male dominated dog eat dog environment. So she plays the game. However, Su comes along and proves her wrong on a certain level. So being in love with Su shows that it is possible to be so loved by a man that he will throw away everything including his own pride and ambition for a woman. This is earth-shattering stuff for Yeon Hwa has been nothing but political marriage fodder. However, although envious on a certain level, Yeon Hwa is also correct that Su doesn't understand fully the ramifications of what it means to be loved by So and what that will do to him and to her in the long-term. Especially now that So has completely tied his identity/destiny to hers. Love is this unadulterated form is dangerous... and potentially explosive.

And explode it will... judging from the next week's preview... 

I might add that the writer is super clever picking one of the least polygamous kings in all of K history to drive home this point. It is surely no accident that history records that Wang So had one wife and a concubine.

For Su marriage is about love but for everyone else around marriage is about expediency especially in the political arena. Marrying for affection doesn't compute,,, in fact frowned upon and scorned. These people are playing for such high stakes... Love?... Pooh! That's for kiddies who don't know better.

In a real enough way their romance is epic because it is bigger than what they are capable of handling. To love so openly and freely in Goryeo is to bring upon yourself not only world of hurt but the whole world against you. It defies a certain kind of logic, political commonsense and pragmatism. It's a powder keg waiting to be lit.

I imagine that this is what Uk was trying to insulate himself from. Admittedly he did succeed, while failing at the same time. While he did shield himself from the attacks of others, not being able to express that love, however, has set him on a road to self-destruction and implosion.

I suppose in a real enough way, the writer is saying that love is a gamble. The stakes are very very high.  To tie yourself to one person so closely is to make yourself vulnerable and yet when it happens it can be the most beautiful thing.

Like a rose that grows in a middle of a cesspit.

(Herein ends the essay)

@40somethingahjumma! I always love your post..whenever I saw u posting in here...I will always take extra look, your post always reach my heart...thanks for your wonderful essay and insight....Oh man, I am really a fangirl of you, keep posting when you free ya

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1 hour ago, Siracusa said:

Finally able to watch episode 15 and can give my two cents.

Count me on the bandwagon that it's not a matter of Soo not trusting So. CR told her that Eun's household got executed and she knows that So has to look for Eun on Yo's orders. The body count is adding up and she sees the writing on the wall. She is coming up with her own plan to save Eun and SD independent of So because time is of the essence and she knows that So will follow through with Yo's orders in order to protect so she is trying anything and everything to help save Eun and SD. Is her idea flawless? Well, who didn't put away their origami toys that led to them getting caught?

I just rewatched the part where Soo is talking to So and declines to share the whereabouts with Eun with him. I take back my previous post because i literally facepalmed when I rewatched this scene. FFS, Soo. Why do we still not trust So? It's not as if he hasn't proven himself over the past four years or anything.

I blame this on the writers, this is lazy writing. The writers should feel bad about themselves. Four years has progressed in the series and we're 3/4 through the series and they're still having Soo be fearful of So and her premonitions for no reason other than contrived tension. Yo is telling to So to kill Eun, that's enough natural tension right there. Why go back to Soo not trusting So? Whatever development or maturity the Soo character gained is negatived because the writers still need her to be distrustful just so they can continue beating the dead horse. We get it. Soo comes from the future and has prior knowledge about history. Soo and So literally just promised each other in episode 14 not to lie or omit truths from each other. What is the point of episode 14 if the writers are just going to undo it? This episode is just a giant wae.

I wish I could take a red pen and just edit this series to make it more cohesive. Yes, it would probably cut it down to fifteen episodes but if the writers need to fulfill a contractual obligation for twenty episodes then just tack on a couple of episodes of So and Soo dating in modern times.

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3 minutes ago, berny said:

@riuenu

HAHAHA...naughty LJK....i cannot even...haha

If he had his way....all rehearsals of KISSES would be the actual thing....:lol:

and...how many times they actually rehearse it...and even on screen, he is still, puckering his lip to welcome the kiss..

and I guess...we got couple of upcoming kiss too...dear SBS...can we have ALL the BTS for ALL the KISSES..I mean all!

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1 minute ago, fuyukoneko said:

 

SD asks her to send a message to her father through WS or JM. HS couldn't find either of them, so she left a letter for SD's dad on the desk that WS uses that's in JM's tower/office/home. Not sure why she wouldn't be worried someone else would see the letter.

 

Ahhhhhh, thank you! Okay, I got the context but still confused about how the aftermath was handled, lol. Oh well, perhaps it'll be explained a little bit next week (my heart hurts thinking about the convo So and Soo will have re: Eun and SD).

 

The more I think about it, the more I'm anticipating Jung blaming So for the entire freakin' thing re: Eun. (I know I said this earlier, but it's really annoying me whenever I rewatch the preview. haha) Never mind that it's Yo calling the shots. I sincerely hope Jung surprises me but he's so biased against So that I'm not expecting anything else.

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Hmm after I watch MLSHR until ep 15th, I guess Hae Soo felt wishy washy toward So. First, she most likely accepted his love for her but when the premonition occured, she felt terrified toward So. Just like Seon Deok said, every lovers should have a trust and faith toward each other. Soo should have trust and faith towards So eventhough she knows that So will be Gwangjong.

Sometimes I felt that Hae Soo hadn't learn about her life problems. Please Hae Soo.. I hope in the next episode, Hae Soo could be more wise than before.

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Big Question:

Why JM tell WS that something must have changed since 3rd wasn't meant to be the king??

So, I get the creative aspect of it that, 3rd was never meant to be the king but time travel changed something that led 3rd become the king..and THAT is the history we know about..

 

BUT WHAT CHANGED? And who changed it? Why did HS and us Know but JM didn't

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To those people defending Soo and arguing that she protected Eun for So's sake, I really wish I could believe that. I really really want to believe that because that means she has more trust in So and that she's actually taking control and being active about things

The problem is that the director accompanies her fear with her visions and premonitions of 'Gwangjeong' and of So smiling and swing around his sword. What this tells me is that she's afraid OF him, not afraid FOR him. If the director went with the episode without such accompanying visions, then I would feel safe in believing that she is doing this in order to protect So. But because of this, it is FAR more likely that she is afraid of him and that she doesn't fully trust him which frankly is really sad...and frustrating.

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One word to sum up ep 15.. INTENSE. 

I was on the edged of my seat the entire time I was watching ep 15 cause I didn't know what was gonna happen.. is another person gonna die? What will this sickening "King" Yo do next with his goons, Wook and Won.. 

All I can say is.. WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO EUN AND SOON DUK????? 

Did So really killed them in the preview???? It's the same as Soo's vision a while back right??? So killing Eun..?? 

Dreading next week's episode cause I really don't wanna see Eun and Soon Duk dying.. but then again, can't wait for next week! 

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17 minutes ago, enigmatic_zephy said:

Big Question:

Why JM tell WS that something must have changed since 3rd wasn't meant to be the king??

So, I get the creative aspect of it that, 3rd was never meant to be the king but time travel changed something that led 3rd become the king..and THAT is the history we know about..

 

BUT WHAT CHANGED? And who changed it? Why did HS and us Know but JM didn't

I think that what cause the change was HS warning WW about WS. I don't think it's her relationship with WS that caused the change.

The fact that right after that scene we see WW repeating what HS told him connived me.

Also 3rd prince would not have been successful with the revolt if not for WW. Like WS said, he is not that smart to pull it off on his own. WW assisted him a lot. He basically did all the work. 

HS telling WW to be careful of WS shifted his personality in some way I believe and made him determine to bring down WS even if it meant siding with 3rd prince.

He doesn't want the warning to come true, he doesn't want WS getting the throne, anyone but WS, especially after he lost HS to him. Those are his thoughts. 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not making excuses for WW's behavior and trying to blame HS. WW is savage!! But I do believe what HS said cause all this.  

Also i'm not sure HS knew 3rd prince would become king. Yes she had hre vision but she always kept thinking WS was the one who would kill everyone else. 

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for whatever reason that HS did not tell WS about Eun....... what she actually doing is to make the history unfold itself.. WS will have to force to kill Eun and he will change himself... its what HS need to do to place Eun and WS in their position... IF she tell WS the only thing he can do is the same.. try to let Eun ran and WY still going to catch Eun and WS still have to do that... its a damn time rule..... whatever HS try to do to stop the history there always a price for it.. history cannot be altered it can be delay but surely it will happen either way...

and that what the writer want.... LOL

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16 hours ago, berny said:

AND THIS HAPPENED ...
BTS of their KISS..... (Ep 14)

What is this LJK-ssi???  hmm02-smiley-face.gif ..explain...explain !

You're so excited ....and you just can't hide it? 
cute-rabbit-emoticon-16.gif

 

 

And this....and this.....LOOK AT THIS  hidden contents

 

  Hide contents

 

IT'S JUST REHEARSAL FIRST.....and LJE kissed the air ... lol1-onion-head-emoticon.gif  ㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

 

Y-aaahhh Oppa ...were you expecting she'll do the actual kiss already??? it's just practice first eh?

Is this your disappointed smirk...  big-grin2-smiley-face.gif

 

 

Cannot contain the feels huh....???  mmmmmmmm.....
 

wwHA HA HA  :lol:

 

 

 

 

LJK:   Me?  Me ?
 

Yes you !  you ! you're so  naughtyyyyyyy ! 

Here is the INCRIMINATING EVIDENCE

You totally puckered your lips on a supposedly "surprised" KISS ...y-ahhhhhh !!!
evil-smile-onion-head-emoticon.gif
hi hi hi...  

SEE THAT !!!!!  SEE THAT !!!!
:phew: Ch-ooo ♥

 

 

Naughty LJK. Muahahahah!!! I love it when he smirk :love::love::love:

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After watching episode 15, i have two hopes that I need to get off my chest, in an effort to put them out there in the world, and pray they actually come true next week: 

  1. 1. that General Park doesn't turn on So and blame him for what happens to his daughter and son-in-law.  I have a feeling the letter from SD that got left behind in JM"s office by HS will figure into this somehow.  But I hope General Park recognizes that So was trying to save them, but circumstances, aka. YH the smirking sisterwitch from hell/Yoyo poophead/and partially HS not cluing him in on the whereabouts of the two doomed kids, were beyond his control.  
  2. 2. that Jung pulls his poofy pony-tailed head out of his butt and opens his eyes as to what's going on around him! He is so oblivious it's not even remotely funny, much like a horse that has blinkers on that prevent it from seeing anywhere else but forward - Jung has serious tunnel vision when it comes to the state of things, and especially So's true nature.  It's not So that is the problem, it's all your other power-hungry crazy relatives!!  I can totally see him dumbly blaming WS for Eun's death, but damn, if you don't see Yoyo head with his bow/arrow and UNDERSTAND what that means, esp after he already murdered the previous king, then I will be forced to disavow you for the rest of the series.  For real. The person you "want to kill" better be Yo. not So. ... hey, that rhymed.:P

Apart from that, I would appreciate some more HS/WS moments scattered in between all the court intrigue/struggle for power machinations. Bc I can't help but feel mighty disgusted when I see family killing family for power (yes. i be lookin at you, WW/WWon/Yo/YH).  And I think a little sweetness will make watching the rest more palatable. 

 

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...actually despite all the negative reviews and criticism to IU's acting and chemistry... I really think they do make a good pair.

Whether it is Lee Jun Ki leading IU into the role and chemistry, it does work! Perhaps Cecilia Liu set the bar too high in the Chinese version.

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59 minutes ago, enigmatic_zephy said:

Big Question:

Why JM tell WS that something must have changed since 3rd wasn't meant to be the king??

So, I get the creative aspect of it that, 3rd was never meant to be the king but time travel changed something that led 3rd become the king..and THAT is the history we know about..

 

BUT WHAT CHANGED? And who changed it? Why did HS and us Know but JM didn't

 

So let me add to your question. I watched both the SBS and the international versions at the same time. In one version (unfortunately...don't remember which one), Soo came up to the tower...am not sure if she was looking for So or for Ji Mong. She sat at his desk for just a bit, and then she heard something.  So and Ji Mong then come climbing up the steps, at which time they have the conversation you mentioned above about something changing since 3rd wasn't meant to be king.

I was hoping at this point that it was the same scene, and not the 2 men coming up at a later time. Because if Soo was still there and hid herself...she would have heard their conversation and realized that So, like Taejo, knows that Ji Mong is different. It might change things if she knows that he knows (about Ji Mong...not her). Perhaps then, she might finally reconsider her unrealistic plan of trying to protect everyone.

EDIT: Forgot to ask the question. Did Soo actually hear their conversation??

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31 minutes ago, Para12012 said:

I think that what cause the change was HS warning WW about WS. I don't think it's her relationship with WS that caused the change.

The fact that right after that scene we see WW repeating what HS told him connived me.

Also 3rd prince would not have been successful with the revolt if not for WW. Like WS said, he is not that smart to pull it off on his own. WW assisted him a lot. He basically did all the work. 

HS telling WW to be careful of WS shifted his personality in some way I believe and made him determine to bring down WS even if it meant siding with 3rd prince.

He doesn't want the warning to come true, he doesn't want WS getting the throne, anyone but WS, especially after he lost HS to him. Those are his thoughts. 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not making excuses for WW's behavior and trying to blame HS. WW is savage!! But I do believe what HS said cause all this.  

Also i'm not sure HS knew 3rd prince would become king. Yes she had hre vision but she always kept thinking WS was the one who would kill everyone else. 

Oh on WW front i understand well..

I want my sweet revenge..someone go and count the error HS has made and make her realize how many people died totally because of her or will die totally because of her

 

only problem is she will start crying and become damsel in distress and WS, WW, Jung, BA, Eun (if alive) will come running after her.. 

 

She is pied piper

 

11 minutes ago, meahri_1 said:

 

So let me add to your question. I watched both the SBS and the international versions at the same time. In one version (unfortunately...don't remember which one), Soo came up to the tower...am not sure if she was looking for So or for Ji Mong. She sat at his desk for just a bit, and then she heard something.  So and Ji Mong then come climbing up the steps, at which time they have the conversation you mentioned above about something changing since 3rd wasn't meant to be king.

I was hoping at this point that it was the same scene, and not the 2 men coming up at a later time. Because if Soo was still there and hid herself...she would have heard their conversation and realized that So, like Taejo, knows that Ji Mong is different. It might change things if she knows that he knows (about Ji Mong...not her). Perhaps then, she might finally reconsider her unrealistic plan of trying to protect everyone.

When it comes to betting on the probability of hS being remotely analytical or sensible or even doing 1+1 .. I won't make that bet :)

Unless she is talking abt makeup...I am not betting even a cent on her..

 

Its funny, but the mutual kiss was supposed to be epic romantic (LJK part was).. but that scene is all time best comedy scene for me..

 

WW and WS both send her 'simple' poems THAT she can' t understand. I rofl at her outburst "Stop sending me poems and give an answer that I can understand"

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http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Gwangjong_of_Goryeo

 

Life and Accomplishments

When Gwangjong, the third son of Wang Geon, came to throne in 949, he found that his position was very unstable. He had fought alongside his father and Gung Ye as they revolted against the Silla queen and then conquered Baekje and Goguryeo. The leaders of the royal clans were like warlords, each with a local power base in his home region, and each vying for control of the government. The military leaders who had helped to establish the Goryeo Kingdom were still attempting to dominate his rule and had ambitions to take the throne. Gwangjong’s predecessor, King Jeongjong, had tried unsuccessfully to reduce the power of various royal in-laws, including Wang Gyu and Pak Sul-hui, but lacking the support of the Gaegyeong elites, he had been unable to substantially strengthen the throne, or to move his capital to the newly constructed fortress at Pyongyang.

Gwangjong realized that his first priority must be to create a strong and stable government. Recognizing many similarities between his situation and that of Taizong of Tang (626 – 649), who had ascended the Chinese throne after helping his father to found the Tang dynasty, Gwangjong made a careful study of Taizong’s book Rules for Emperors (How A Ruler Should Act, Di Fan). From this book he acquired many ideas on how to create a stable government.

One of the first challenges faced by Gwangjong was to eliminate or reduce the power of his rivals, many of whom he imprisoned, exiled or had executed. He enacted a series of laws intended to centralize the state government. One of these, enacted in 956, was the liberation of slaves. During the conflicts among the various warring clans, many prisoners had been taken, and these were made to work as slaves on the estates of their captors. By restoring those who had been unjustly enslaved to their previous status as commoners, Gwangjong weakened the power of the local estates and increased tax revenue.

In 958, he initiated a system of civil service exams to select government officials (노비안검법; 奴婢按檢法) from among the most talented and intelligent candidates, regardless of social status or origins. Previously, government appointments had been made based on social status, family connections and favoritism rather than on merit, allowing many incompetent people to occupy top positions, and perpetuating the class system. The civil service examinations ensured a bureaucracy that would remain stable through regime changes. The system continued in use for 90 years, until 1894.

Gwangjong then selected a Korean era name, Junpung, Gwangjong proclaimed himself Emperor, a sovereign independent of any other country. This ended tributary relationships with China. Gwangjong’s successors were also known as Emperors.

Choe Seung-ro (최승로; 崔承老), a historian who served as Prime Minister to the first six Goryeo kings, including King Taejo, wrote a book criticizing Gwangjong for driving the kingdom into debt by being too obsessed with Buddhist activities, rituals, and public projects. He declared that the first eight years of Gwangjong’s reign had been peaceful, because he ruled wisely and did not mete out harsh punishments, but that afterwards, he had become a tyrant, spending money lavishly, tolerating corruption and executing anyone who opposed his policies of centralization. Late in his life, Gwangjong began to build numerous Buddhist temples; scholars speculate that perhaps he had repented for killing so many powerful people and wished to calm the resentment he had aroused.

 

 

anyone could tell me who is Choe Seung-ro ? the historian whose happen to be prime minister for the first 6 kings of goryeo? is he in depicted in MLSHR??? he seems hate gwangjong

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