[Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner

[chi13lou]

42 minutes ago, pwnkl said:

Just my 2cents with Wang So.. and with the preview where he go crazy mad and shut downs HS.

Honestly, I don't like it either.. that this "mossy-sunken-ship-of-WW&HS" is like the major blow for So breaking up with Soo. Yea, sure it's petty but I remember someone already said in here were talking about past affairs moreover engagement/marriage during Goryeo's era that enuff is a whole different story.

To us it's heck petty but I don't really find it so out of character.. his jealousy is pretty consistent throughout.. and we were always reminded by that even when he's not showing the gray side of him. perfect one is during the first stargazing date that time So is like his clothes light colored-- then he admits of being jealous with Jung then with Queen Yoo's death + HS let Jung in. Simply, Wang So is Wang So before HS and until now.. then the next scenario that shows his jealousy when HS hid Jung in her room. He even said to her bluntly.. how long did he contemplated on breaking through her door. The dude is trying, holding it in, if you guys can understand HS from leaving because of the excessive pain she's receiving then is So's endurance limitless? Pressure from the throne, worry and concern to HS + HS's anger and ofc his own feeling.. I bet you he's also blaming himself for getting caught with the marriage with YH must've been feel so frustrated that he's a king and yet he's still incompletely free from being controlled and furthermore.. don't you think he's dead lonely for not not be able to go to HS in with no restraint? Talking about self desire here.

The last straw was his ego being stepped on. Guys, Wang So is a man.. and ofc he's a human he's no exception for each human's emotion. if HS became paranoid from her visions then Wang So is probably going to go paranoid with his blind jealousy.. blind? yes.. I could question that.. he might have been faithful and knowing that HS has someone for a decade and it seems just like nothing to him.. but heck he only knew that much, it's different if you now have assumptions what's worse if you can justify it. Yes' he got prior recollection to justify that jealousy.. How many times did HS tried to protect WW from him? vocally and not. Wang So is not dense after all as he sense that HS is caring deeply towards Wook.. it's just that he didn't suspect him for he was a married man, why just two people he candidly mention-- Baek Ah and Jung.. he knew HS hates polygamy so in his logic Wook is a minus. And now what? if the English translation is dead accurate..

 

I could just imagine how much crazy he thinks.. bottom line.. he's probably gonna think he lose against Wook. He's the first.. she's into that household long enough.. when did, how, what did, and you said you hate polygamy?.. I bet million questions is frying his brain. As much as I hate the idea, I won't throw stones at him because I could understand Wang So's POV and actions.. and let's not forget.. He already had this creeping resentment towards Wook. If HS got CR then Wang So also have people before HS.. have all the right to resent and avenge the lost of someone dear to him.  And yet he still tried to spare CR because of HS.. Yes he might have been a bit rough towards HS after ascending the throne but his love never change, that I'm certainly sure. However the issue with Wook-Soo is not something easy to deal with for him, as how hard jealous person Wang So is. Now that they're both burnt-out.. what's next is expected.

---

Anyway, the speculation if Wook confessing intended to help HS out of the palace.. Then this is really something.. it's not poor written but it's a trash. I'm going to go against that idea until the very end. Wook is a bastard! The moment he made YH a queen, that I completely give up to the thought somehow they could redeem his character with two colors before getting darker than black. Honestly I still can't believe it how the writer is still not exposing Wook's evil deeds towards HS.. if this happen then what? HS until the very end is going to get fooled thinking that Wook's only stain is his greed towards the throne? Come on.. you made Wang So a monster in her eyes.. but the real monster keeps his sheep's clothes in HS's eyes? I'm seriously dumbfounded with this.

But I agree with the theory that the one who frames up Wook is YH or at least YH helped WS. This will be sweet! I'm so in to this!

In regards, if ever Wang So consummate with YH because of his blind jealousy.. and writer-nim going to forsake history. I DAMN TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU! this should never happen! This will just ruin So's character..

Lastly, they better not leave YH unpunished.. that'll be just so wrong *sigh* how could innocent people like SD and Eun gets a lash while this witch is living the life? So please I demand that WS will only consummate her according to history.. please please pretty please~drama-gods' writer-nim. You already inflict intense countless torment almost each episode.. can you let this one go? 

P.S I'm not being one-sided in this.. I wanted to write about HS but it's 2 AM here and I have to back read 20+ pages (currently on page 1577).. but probably it'll be for tomorrow. Good Night! / Good Day! Eclipse  

 

 

From the preview, we know that WW reveals to WS his past relationship with HS and WS confronts HS about it and she admits to it. I only hope that HS does convince him well after his outburst that everything is over. But I wonder what triggered WW to reveal this past relationship, was it YH asking him a favor so that WS will lose his trust in HS and break up?

The dead bird/treason accusation, was it before or after the relationship revelation? If it was after the revelation, then it will be another chance for HS to once again misunderstand the whole thing thinking that WS is doing this to get back at her and WW, not knowing of his crimes.

If he does get sentenced, he can always use the other poisoning incident as a bargaining chip to either lessen his sentence or get back at YH.

[riuenu]

Uri prince!!! Thanking us on recording breaking in Youku!! Netizen Joongi Oppa is 

 

[bitofmadness]

After reading all of your in-depth analysis, I realise that while opposites do attract, opposites can also result in incompatibility. Throughout their journey together thus far, both So and Soo have learned a lot from one another. So has learned to become more compassionate and caring. Soo has learned to become a bit more aware of the situation she is in. 

However, at the end of the day, people still have their own values that they lead their lives by. You cannot force them to adopt/agree with what they do not simply believe in. We just have to accept that people are all different. Being in love is not enough for a relationship to work. There are so many factors - some within our control but also some that are quite simply outside of our control. And I appreciate SHR’s effort for showcasing this (although execution wise it could have been better but at this rate whatever). Sometimes things just do not work out. That is the reality of life. While I’m watching this, I always think that I am witnessing a real life couple before their fall out. This is not your typical k-dramaland where Prince Charming is going to bend his back for you and vice versa. That things are magically going to fall into place and everyone is going to accept their relationship once So becomes King. People may make certain decisions that do not sit well with the other. It does not necessarily have to be a particular person’s fault that the relationship is failing. Because in real life, even truth is in the eye of the beholder. Sometimes it is very complex to pinpoint what went wrong. Nevertheless, unlike reality we get to see the love story unfolding through multiple perspectives. But these characters do not have the opportunity to know everyone's thoughts. This definitely affects the decisions they make.  

So to sum up my rambled thoughts: night and day cannot be together. But their existence creates balance for this world. On top of that, the costume department is pretty obvious about it too. Ha Jin’s journey back to the past has a few purposes: to become a King Maker as well as to become a stronger person. Only she has so much optimism in life to go through the pain over and over again and become a catalyst for history. After that, she has to leave. Because too much compassion during Goryeo will lead to bloodshed. If she ever gets to be transported back to the 21st century, I think a part of her will always remember Goryeo. With new found strength from all the hardships she went through, she will be able to resolve her 21st century issues.  

Their love story is tragic indeed, but it is necessary for both of them to grow. Losing our loved ones is hard, but we learn from it in some way or another. 

But someone please remind the PD that this is still a K-drama. AND I STILL NEED MY DOSE HAPPINESS PLEASE. I think I need to stop pouring my thoughts out for a while. The heartache is real. 

[runitaaa]

29 minutes ago, ChewyChocolate said:

Wook: You need to marry.

GJ: Shut up.

Wook: You can't marry Soo. She has a scar.

GJ: Shut up.

Wook: You could marry YH. She's from a powerful clan.

GJ: Shut up.

Wook: Or you could marry someone else.

GJ: Huh? 

Wook: Me.

GJ: What????

Wook: I don't have a scar, I'm from a powerful clan. I can't be king. So I might as well be queen.

GJ: OMG.

Wook: I look at you with half-closed eyes.

GJ: Shut up.

Wook: My eyes close automatically at your hotness.I have to force them to open. It's really hard.

GJ: Guards!!!! Arrest this madman!!!!

 

 

 

 Oh my god, I laugh so hard while reading this!! Thank you for this incredible fan fic chingu 

[taehumama]

Lots of you people think that WS turned "evil" but he's not... That's always been present. I think his true "evilness" might be dormant because he met Hae Soo. 

In a world like Goryeo, how can he not be anything else but ruthless? With his childhood? Background?

Like Wang Yo said to HS, "I was just trying to survive" like most people of this era.

Wang Wook would have been eat alive if he had not changed. Sweet,naive people tends to die earlier that conniving ones.

HS could not last long in this era, she's too soft, she tried hard but she had face too many harships for a 21th century girl.

One could only surrender in her case. That's why I'm happy that Jung gave her an option, he did not push for her decision, he has waited for her to come to term. Do you know how painful is to wait for someone who won't love you back the way you love them? Jung made a sacrifice, a big one, he will give up his life to save hers, to give her a life of peace and freedom. That's a true man for me! I may be the only one to think that but it's my opinion though.

Wook and So will regret letting HS go.

***********************

Your life will be like my own life

Even if I have to die, I will save your life.

14th prince Wang Jung to Hae Soo (ep 4)

[tianaa]

[Evangeline Yang]

1 hour ago, Kasmic said:

I just watch the sub ep and I have a question... 

After his marriage, WS or more like JM announce the name of WS reign as" Gwangdeok" even in Chinese writing it is not Gwangjeong. Did he just change the name from what history plus HS knows him by therefore will this drama have some more twists?? or is it just bad translation or did I understood wrong. Maybe someone here can clarify for me

Another thing, Queen HB says this about HS writing with present time Hangeul writing... though I know she intends to rip into HS for not having any higher socio-status to be Queen

Omo will HS tell him that she's from a diff time period as the cversion...please be so or will he somehow figure it out earlier and NOT after she dies. 

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And I also notice that WS (yeah Im calling him WS cos Im not sure of his new King title) might know of HS poor heart condition and that she's dying. Oh I do hope he digs into it.... maybe he will be more considerate (though he lost that feeling since he became King so indeed a far stretch idea for WS) and if she does leave him he will somehow still watch over her 

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AISH!!! am I being too hopeful? wishful thinking that he will be there before she pasts or will karma bite him back and let him feel the same pain that Jung felt when he couldnt be there to see his Mother die.  

This drama is teaching me so much and one thing for sure that KARMA is a richard simmons.  DAMN Im flipping tables again 

 

11

 

Gwangdeok is actually his era name. Mean the name of the era he reigned in. I googled about it. And his King name is still Gwangjong.

[tianaa]

poor hae so she is lost what she feared will occur i have no desire to have happy ending

[sweetpealover]

22 minutes ago, riuenu said:

22 minutes ago, riuenu said:

Uri prince!!! Thanking us on recording breaking in Youku!! Netizen Joongi Oppa is 

 

I know that he isn't a film director or a professional camera holder, but my head started spinning with him moving the camera (or fast forwarding) and the black flashes (not exactly strobe lights)... Does anyone have a barf bag?........ Ugh... excuse me.....

I liked his gratitude for his international fans. Just have someone else film next time? There so much spinning I can take in a day for my heart, head, and eyes. Especially from Scarlet Heart: Ryeo.

[Evangeline Yang]

46 minutes ago, riuenu said:

hahahahaha, ya, I remember we were talking about the steam bun, and yes, I looking at steam bun differently now..but at least, I dun avoid it anymore, thankfully, CR isnt been steam, if not I will avoid steaming stuff for another half a year..but evil me I know, I hope that Won will be boiled like what Jimong had mentioned, boiled alive..but just dont show us and briefly bring it over..

Yup, writer nim done too much time jump without much explanation..it is very confusing to be frank..lucky I am in this forum with so many wonderful people to analysis the scene...if not, I will scratch and pull my hair till I become balding seriously the time jump make me wanna whack the writer already...we have at least 4 unexplained time jump right.

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I know why u were saying about if it is with KBS..it might be different...and I know which drama you are talking about, yes, to be frank DOTS editing is much better as compared to MLSHR...I can say that, it is near to prefect...SBS screw up big time really, tho they edit it better in the 2nd round, as compared to the one that had been sold internationally...

Dont be upset chingu yah....so many of us are here with you, your friend just out to make u angry on the rating..we know it that the rating for ML is top internationally...I happen to meet up with my Korean friend during my overseas trip, she was saying most of the youngster doesnt have TV or doesnt watch from TV when MLSHR air, they stream it online just like us, and online streaming doesnt count to part of the TV rating..she is watching it live using streaming and her friend as well...so the rating is unfair actually...with smart phone and smart device like iPad and tablet now, they will do live streaming using that at cafe or on the way home...plus she mention, this is their exam period as well, and that explain the not so good rating even another drama ended.

I believe u are slay that friend of yours in your heart more than a thousand times right, hahahahaha, please add me in the picture to slay him with you kekekekekekek

 

 

I feel so love chingu to know I am not alone. But first, I wanna slay the editor of SBS. I wanna go kick down the door of the editor room down, demand all the tapes and re-edit everything, make sure is longer and better and more lovery dovey with all the betrayers begging for forgiveness. Not to forget, make So into a true cinnamon roll and less evil side of GJ but of coz, he still needs to axe all the betrayers first. Send them far far away on a lonely island in exile seem like a good idea.

[liddi]

@ChewyChocolate @superkoala Thank you so much for adding to my mirth today!  Love love love your posts - truly hilarious!

I was immersing once more in my favourite scene in Ep18, when So and Soo went on their date. I love how beautifully shot it was... the chemistry between them so palpable - when So and Soo enjoyed for a brief moment, complete bliss. I like little gestures like So instinctively protecting Soo from being jostled by passerbys; her telling him about how she noticed him when she was there with Chae Ryung during a similar night years ago (thank you @hitomebore08 for pointing out and providing the missing translations there). I adore how So envelopes her in his arms and kisses her cheek... and the utter contentment and love with which she looks at him in response. Every interaction was perfection... and I truly applaud LJG and IU for embodying their roles so well and making me feel like a rank outsider, daring to intrude in So and Soo's all-too-few moments of perfect happiness.

Reposting the gifs shared by @Kasmic in an earlier post, just because they are so beautiful 

cr. lavenderbyun tumblr

[CapriGirl13]

56 minutes ago, ChewyChocolate said:

Wook: You need to marry.

GJ: Shut up.

Wook: You can't marry Soo. She has a scar.

GJ: Shut up.

Wook: You could marry YH. She's from a powerful clan.

GJ: Shut up.

Wook: Or you could marry someone else.

GJ: Huh? 

Wook: Me.

GJ: What????

Wook: I don't have a scar, I'm from a powerful clan. I can't be king. So I might as well be queen.

GJ: OMG.

Wook: I look at you with half-closed eyes.

GJ: Shut up.

Wook: My eyes close automatically at your hotness.I have to force them to open. It's really hard.

GJ: Guards!!!! Arrest this madman!!!!

 

 

 

LOLOL i can imagine WangSoo's face at this point! Hilarious! 

Then the plot changed into Bromance MODE! *ROFL*

[riuenu]

8 minutes ago, Evangeline Yang said:

 

I feel so love chingu to know I am not alone. But first, I wanna slay the editor of SBS. I wanna go kick down the door of the editor room down, demand all the tapes and re-edit everything, make sure is longer and better and more lovery dovey with all the betrayers begging for forgiveness. Not to forget, make So into a true cinnamon roll and less evil side of GJ but of coz, he still needs to axe all the betrayers first. Send them far far away on a lonely island in exile seem like a good idea.

actually I believe the editor did cut much of the lovely dovey scene as well....look at the international version, so much Sohae scene had been cut...I know they are putting back some in Korea version...but yet, I still think they are holding on much to put in DVD version or even some special episode...

and you make me burst out laughing on the slaying and lonely island in exile part...hahhahahahaha, and yea, you are definitely not alone!

[ChewyChocolate]

I hope you all don't mind me making up crazy stories about Wook, Soo and So. I just feel very frustrated with what they are doing to So, and making him into a crazy king. Just tell me when you get sick of my posts and I'll stop. Thanks for reading my posts, just remember I write them because I'm so frustrated.

[peipei78]

Dear Eclipses, 

anyone know where is this lake's location ? I really want to visit here during my trip next month.

thank you,

[hitomebore08]

2 hours ago, zi4r said:

BTS is adorable! I guess they realize the fans need some healing after the intense episode last night.

I haven't watched the episode with subs, even though (unlike Ep17) it was a visual-enough episode for me to almost fully understand what's going on. My US VPN is down (they promise to get it back up in the next 6 hours) and my China server is also going through maintenance, so I can't watch DF or Youku versions. DarkSmurfSubs aren't out yet either. So, for now, with the limited understanding of the episode, let me give a general opinion on its quality.....

 

 

IMO, Ep18 is very well done despite all the limitations/difficulties imposed on it by the plot setup to this point and the large ground it had to cover, given we have only 2 episodes left. Yes, they could've tightened up the editing a bit, but (well, I might be being extra-forgiving, after the abysmal editing quality of the previous episode but) they did it well enough for the editing to not detract from the plot and the tension it delivered. And deliver, it did!

To talk about the quality of the episode, I need to address the difficulties the episode had to overcome, and how I felt it sufficiently (actually, quite brilliantly at some points) overcame them. It is, IMO, one of the strongest episodes, because many things could have gone so wrong and yet they managed to make it work. Here's what I mean:

 

1) How they handled the progression of Hae Soo's character

I have given harsh criticism to how Hae Soo's character was painted in Ep14-16... and I felt it was intentional, and not a f-up by the writer or IU's acting. I was right. And I am so saddened by what the kind of role this drama has made this character fulfill.

(Read inside spoiler tag for character trajectory from Ep1-13):

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Ep 1-8: HS was an innocent, fish-out-of-water, trusting and giving girl. That made her a cute damsel-in-distress for her scenes with Wang So, and I had no problem with that. Because what else can we expect out of a girl trapped in a 16yo body due to a timeslip?

Ep 9-10: She had to deal with the visions. Yes, she fumbled along the way but at least for me, held herself admirably well, against the onslaught of confusion and fear imposed by the visions.

Ep 11-12: Here comes the breaking of her spirit. So much tragedy, so much heartbreak, so much pain..... yet, her quiet resilience and strength of character took my breath away and made me fall in love with her. There she was, a crippled laundry-maid, and yet she kept her heart true to the man she loved (WW) and also strove to protect the man who is madly in love with her (WS).

Ep 13: The true calling has come, for her time in Goryeo. I believed that she would play a pivotal role in the war over the throne. And there she was. This tiny figure, limping away..... yet so strong, making all the right decisions, taking on the weight of responsibilities no one in her station should have to bear.

Look at her character trajectory... Beautiful, isn't it? We were witnessing the true making of a person. So how did I expect that character to go from there? Up and up, of course... at least until GJ becomes King and breaks her heart, I thought. Here's what I was hoping for (inside spoiler tag):

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I was hoping that WS's love would begin to heal her... that she would become trusting and loving very few people, yet doing so more fully to those few people; that she would become wisened and hardened by time, and yet still retaining a warm heart... one that she only allows WS (and maybe a few close friends) to see. In later episodes, I had hopes that she could become his strength, not just as a lover but as a partner. Because being a courtlady means having the eyes-and-ears in every nook and crevice of the palace. Can you imagine how much of an asset that would have been to WS (let's say, as Chae-ryung was to WWon)? It's not that I wanted WS to use her; but I was hoping she would still play a bigger role than just a dumb girlfriend to WS. Because someone as burdened as WS needs a strong partner... and the character trajectory of Ep1-13 proves that HS could have become that!

Just imagine..... HS managing to uncover some conspiracy in the palace, and helping WS protect Mu... how nice it could have been! Then, when GJ becomes King, I was hoping she could remain his confidante --- yes, he would marry YH, but HS would remain to be his strength, his love, his core of existence..... until one day, he goes too far and she cannot bear to embrace the man he has become. Then, the heartbreak would come for both parties, then HS dies/disappears, then modern era...... THE END.

Tragic or happy ending, it wouldn't have mattered much to me. If Hae Soo and Wang So have fully lived their time together, then it would have been worth it. I would have embraced that plot fully.

But rather than that, what did we get? We didn't get to see HS's "healing" because of the timeskip. Rather than as I have hoped, she has become the total opposite: (inside spoiler tag)

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A hardened woman that seems to be especially suspicious of and tough in judging WS. A woman efficient in menial labour of tending to the King (mercury poisoning non-withstanding) and the princes, but seems to have no other purpose or role in the palace life. (She, BA and WH could have been great source of strength and support for WS, but all three seem to have lost interest in serving any purpose other than to just exist.) And worse, once the events turn turbulent in Ep14, she was totally unprepared for it all, and she seems to not know at all where she stands in WS's life. (Well, she's right in feeling that she matters little in practical sense to him, because as I've said, she doesn't play any essential role in his life at all!)

So, since she doesn't have any other role in Ep14-17 than to be WS's love (and to make her visions not come true), her focus was entirely on that. And amidst all the death and tragedy and conspiracies, she becomes this woman focused on his feelings towards her, and nothing else. And oh how I LOATHED that. How dare they!!! They built a female character with such potential to be strong and wise and resilient... and then destroyed her mid-series and made her into this pathetic woman who just waits around for her man, one whose insecurities and emotions overrule logic at every turn.

Now that I've watched Ep18, I realize this is exactly how cruelly the writer wishes to paint this story. HS has never mattered much as a courtlady... and without those responsibilities, only as the King's lover, she matters even less now. Unlike YH or Queen Yoo or Woo-hee or even Chae-ryung, in the courtly game, she is utterly useless. Even if she could become a Concubine/Queen, she would still be just an accessory, the pretty girl on the King's arms. She has direct access to the King's ears, but the headstrong WS has never truly respected her enough when it comes to her opinions (Oh, he loves her and respects her feelings; but her thoughts and her advice? Not much.) and the full-efficiency-mode GJ respects it even less.

This makes for a very logical break in their relationship. There was no need for a real turning point. (Even CR's punishment and death was not really a turning point, because the relationship between HS and GJ (unlike that of HS and WS) has never really worked. Since he stepped on the throne, she already has no place in his life, even though she undoubtedly still occupies almost the whole of his heart.

 

So why do I feel Ep18 has done well about this character? HS's handling of WS's marriage to YH, his treatment of Queen Yoo & Jung, punishment & death of CR..... She handled them all with the maturity that I find so refreshing to see.

From her loving reassurance when they discussed the marriage...

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To her offer of comfort and acceptance despite her own misgivings about his treatment of Jung...

 

(Just a side note here: This mirrors the first "makeup" scene. That was the last time he prevented her from touching the scar/face, right? IMO, he stopped her this time, because her touch would've undone him as always... and he was worried it would soften his resolve.)

And finally to the utterly betrayed and shattered look in her eyes when confronting him about CR...

 

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Each of those developments feels very well-earned. Unlike her almost-tantrums in Ep14-16, I feel her pain here EVERY step of the way. By the way, I am not hating on WS/GJ at all in this episode either (In fact, I love who he has become too; I will talk about it below), but I feel HS is finally back to being a true character, rather than just a shell of it. I know there are many in this thread that feel HS is too naive or asking for too much or whatever in this episode... but this is the most logical progression this character can go through after the mess of Ep14-17... and she herself is the most logical she has ever been in a very very long time!

I fully stand by her decision to leave the palace. WS/GJ needs to feel her void keenly so that he can do soul-searching of his own; the palace life is killing her inside out, and if there's any salvation she can find in that world, it is not in GJ anymore by this point. Yes, I am saddened and angered by all the opportunities lost in the previous episodes. But I hope her character find some peace and happiness... because HS/Go Ha-jin, you have suffered enough at the hands of this writer.

 

 

2) How Gwangjong turned "evil"

Now, here comes the fun part. 

(Read inside spoiler tag for criticism of this drama regarding justice)

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If there's anything this drama is lacking, it's justice... some sweet sweet justice. Time has been the only one that has been giving us any semblance of justice in this story. Taejo, the bad husband, the bad lover and the bad father? Well, he died of old age and yes, he yearned for Lady Oh at the end and it's oh so sad. But that's it; no other punishment for his tacit cruelty towards So and his mismanagement of many wives. Wang Yo, the puppet turned borderline-interesting villain? The guy who murdered his own innocent brother in cold blood? Gone. Died just on his own. Yes, he was barking mad by the end, but he didn't get to suffer a poetic end in the hands of someone out for revenge/justice. And sigh... what a waste.

So, to say the truth, I wasn't sure whether we're getting any satisfaction on this front. Before Ep18, the baddies left were: Queen Yoo, Yeon-hwa, Wang Wook and Wang Won. (Jung is just a stupid kid, so as much as I want to strangle him half the time, he's no evil.) I couldn't imagine WS killing his own mother; I know he's marrying YH so I was not sure how the show can deliver any good justice regarding her. So I was expecting WWon to fry this episode, and then WWook to fry the next episode. But I was not sure how well the show would handle either one of those frying, because WS has been saying over and over again about no more bloodshed between brothers.

Okay, first, let me talk about my disappointment: the WWon part. Aish!!! He deserves so much worse than just that grilling he received. I hope we're gonna see some more of what happened to him, but I think the show will disappoint me on this front.

But OMG!!! How I love the part with Queen Yoo! (Okay, just to warn you, I have serious mommy issues, so I'm sorry if I come across as insensitive.) The punishment for a woman who wouldn't look upon his face? She has to die looking at that face, with only him as her company. Part of me really really wants his scar to be more visible, and that to be the last thing she sees. But I guess, it might have made WS/GJ look weaker, I don't know. But as it is, it's already brilliant. Especially because they employed the flashback of his blood-splattered face from Ep4 soooo well. BAM! The impact.

 

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(Another side note: Who says we need guyliner to make someone evil? LJG is wearing the least eyeliner in this scene compared to his earlier WS scenes but look at that! A good actor doesn't just use sweat and tears for his acting..... snort and drool too!  Gosh, he always gives it ALL to his performance, doesn't he?)

And from the direction the plot is heading, the punishment of YH and WWook will be very nicely intertwined, I am hoping. I will talk about YH character in the next section.

But most importantly, it's about how they handled the "turning into evil" that earned my applause. Because there's no real "turning" here. All the pain in WS has always been there, waiting to break through. The state of the nation, the court and its politics when he comes into power is a total mess. The nation has been festering; "evil" has been prospering and the innocents have been suffering.

Thus, as a newly crowned King, a house-cleaning --- a total purge, really --- becomes absolutely necessary. And that's all he's been doing. He can hardly be called ruthless at this point. Meeting with each individual, letting them know he knows of their crimes/their weakened position..... if they have something to offer in return --- something to bolster his power, something to prove their allegiance, something to trade --- they will have a position in his reign. Anyone else has to step aside. And of course, swift punishment to anyone who has ever committed crimes against the throne.

It seems, unlike HS, the timeskip has made WS a lot wiser in terms of politics. And I am happy to see some political intrigue bleed into this drama, because we've gotten so precious little of it in the previous 17 episodes.

Of course, there's still a chance that GJ will spiral totally out of control and become truly evil. But actually, it's no longer necessary. Now, he can just remain a King who is strict and swift in his dealings with his subjects --- one that is just and efficient, yet merciless against betrayal. (I suspect, that's who the real Gwangjong in history truly is.)

Why is truly-evil GJ not necessary anymore? Because the part about HS leaving him has nothing to do with him becoming evil. She is leaving him because even though she can forgive and understand him (and maybe even support the general direction of his decisions), she cannot stomach the reality of what is necessary to be King. And as I've said, she doesn't have a place in his life any longer, because she cannot fulfill the role of a cunning woman..... a worthy partner and right-hand woman to a monarch.

So now I understand why they butchered HS's character in Ep14-17. (At least, this is how I take it to be.) They did it to eliminate the need to make WS/GJ truly ruthless. In order to salvage WS/GJ's character, they had to weaken HS's character. It is so so sad to see it happen. But I guess, given how well the show handled the progression of both characters in Ep18, I am willing to roll with it, my feminist side be darned.

 

 

3) How to deal with Yeon-hwa

We know that nothing visibly bad will happen to Yeon-hwa. According to history, she will be Queen and will provide him with an heir and spares. So we were all preparing ourselves for the inevitable... YH's rise to power.

(Read inside spoiler tag for my defense for Yeon-hwa)

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Firstly, I'd like to say, as a person who loves strong female characters, I don't hate YH. I feel that she'd make a worthy Queen, given how wise she is to political maneuvering in court. I feel many people pile hate on her unjustly, despite the fact that all she has done is to ensure her own safety and her place in the palace. Just as WS hated being sent away, YH does too. And as a woman, being married off as a hostage is a fate that she has to fear each day. So what do you expect her to do? Curl up into a ball and cry? I, for one, love her strength. Her cunning in Ep10-11 is absolutely brilliant. She never gives up, no matter the obstacle. If there's a female character to admire in this show, she's definitely one of them!

I'm not saying she's worthy of WS's love. She and WS were not a good match. But she and GJ though? Together, they can be quite a pair to be reckon with. (Inside spoiler tag: Look at their mirroring cunning expressions... Took my breath away.)

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But well, she might be a worthy queen in my eyes, but she's also responsible for destroying the epic love of WS and HS (Actually, I feel as if they were doing the destroying all on their own, but I am sure many romantic viewers of this drama would disagree with me). So of course, her marrying WS/GJ and having a happily-ever-after is not something even I can stomach.

This is where I feel the show has outdone itself!

First, why marry Yeon-hwa? I thought they would go the cheap way of "Well, HS is scarred, GJ can't marry her, end of story, move on". But no, we get to see GJ steadfast in his decision to marry HS; after all, he himself has a scar! This allows for a true and noble sacrifice from HS's part... because here, she is given a CHOICE. Theoretically, she can still marry him, but she sets him free of that promise so that he can make a good political marriage and be a strong King. Do I like that it's necessary? No. But you have to admit, the script has given much more respect to this to-marry-or-not-to-marry saga than we expected. And I'm so happy for it.

Next, consummation of marriage. Well, they will have kids. So of course, that must happen too. I was SCREAMING on top of my lungs (while in office) at my screen when GJ came in drunk and approached YH. I was worried that the show is going to pull another cheap "Oh he didn't know what he was doing, he was drunk" stunt. THANK GOD!!! They didn't.

The true genius of the script comes from how GJ is using not just YH's present situation but her whole future as a mere transaction. Betray her brother, throw away her birth family, be his puppet... in return, he'd let her have his heir. There's no security in her future either way -- he can take more wives and the war of the concubines is almost inevitable whether her son is made crown prince or not. Yet, she has to throw away her present attachments for that uncertain promise of a future. That move wouldn't have been so masterfully cruel if YH doesn't love WS/GJ. But in her own way, she does! GJ seems intent on reminding her each and every day that his heart is something she can't own or even hope to sway.

All in all, I hope GJ wreaks havoc on WW and YH's whole family..... but I hope the script will give a good conspiracy to base that on. (Let's say, if the old poisoning plot of Mu/WS can be unearthed, but I guess that's too much to ask?) Because I do wish YH to feel the raw pain of that transaction. Her family being destroyed by her own hands. And getting to see WW on a frying pan..... Well, that thought alone has whet my appetite for the rest of the week.

 

 

After this episode, (I know many people here might disagree but) I am very satisfied with where this drama is headed. We now have an inkling of where each character will end up, and given the countless F-ups that the plot has made from episodes 14-17, the position each character stands after this episode is the best we could hope for each of them. Really, I am so pleasantly surprised by how much clean-up the plot has made in just Ep18.

I hope the show retains this quality and this pacing (well, I hope they can do better, but don't ask for miracles) in the next two episodes. So, show, please don't let me down.

 

wow before i realized it I was done reading your super long post   I did enjoy reading it! I love how you unfold each character. Now let me give you a hundred likes for this. 

[jadecoral]

9 hours ago, desvlo said:

I've been curious about this. I know it's based on a novel, but Qing and Goryeo dynasty had the same historical background? Because both had the same number of princes  and the 4th emperor/king were both described as ruthless. I know Goryeo can't be the fictional one because it's in Korean history and they had Gwangjong but is it the same in Qing dynasty too? Did they really have a 4th prince/ruthless emperor as well?

 It's not exactly the same as the Qing Dynasty though there are similarities in that Gwangjong is also the 4th prince. But there're many more princes other than the ones we saw in the drama. From what I know, 4th prince rebelled against the crown prince together with the 3rd prince even though 3rd prince became Jeongjong. According wikipedia, Gwangjong was not entirely a ruthless tyrant throughout his reign. Sure, there were of course ruthless tactics that were used but in general, historians, view him as a wise ruler in the beginning of his rule as he made various progressive reforms such as emancipation of slaves and establishment of the national exams so that anyone with the talents can serve the country. BUT the middle of his reign was characterized by ruthless purging of his enemies and the end of his reign was characterized by draining the country's resources by building buddhist projects.

[arsdf]

it's seems like there's no more lovely dovey moments between our OTP with the 2 last eps? 

WHERE'S IS THE KISS SCENE from the leaked photo??? When will it happen??? and I think the scene when HS holding the mask with teary eyes is not airing right? it should be in the last ep right?  

[elisluvgeunscouple]

1 hour ago, junejungki said:

I dont think he will read my message but I posted it anyway. After several minutes my message drown in thousand other messages

He always read his fans messages...

We never know also that he might be lurking on this thread and lee joon gi thread..since he cares his fans so much and he speak English also

[arabela]

My personal feeling,and I am very aware this is something subjective and don't want to judgemental, but my personal feeling is that is very important to differentiate moral thinking from practical, political one, explanations from justifications and understanding from legitimized or approving  .... just because something is practical or even politically right or politically correct or necessary, doesn't mean is also morally right or necessary..... in every regime statemen and political rulers try to find explanations and justification for their decisions and so many times the idea of what is good and right for state sake and safe was used....is so easy to use the powerfull idea of state stability, people's good, consolidating the power , protecting the  future to justify killing, tyrany, ruthlessness, or personal interests, personal revenge ..... trying to survive, hard circumstances, political needs , being a victim , or being in danger, I believe cannot be used so easy to justify or morally legitimized hurting/killing other people ....it was too much used in bad political regimes to be used uncritically

In my opinion, no matter who much I like WS, no matter how much I know he did suffer, no matter how difficult his position is he REALLY needs to take in consideration some alternatives cause what he dID/does/will do can be morally wrong ... and MY GUESS IS THAT HE KNOWS IT , DEEP DOWN, and will have his later regrets,like he did in fact in real history..... and in a way this is also the subtle moral of this drama , I suppose 

Edited October 26, 2016 by arabela