[Drama 2015-2016] Six Flying Dragons 육룡이 나르샤

[nevill]

well at last saw the episodes with subs

have to say that for me LBW showed his tyranny tendencies - his "fear" of losing power n btw and it is only his power he cares about shows his going the power crazy path

when he realized JDJ plan - which im all for  - he didnt think once about his father or older brother which would have become the obvious king after LSG and after that his brothers son would have ascended the throne  - so here is the birth of a tyrant - wanting absolute power and justifying it in wishing to make BY and others dream come true -  well everyone needs a reason 

anyway im a fully JDJ person now - admittedly i was confused for a bit but ow im sure JDJ is right

LBW will be a tyrant and i think that the only reason or mostly the reason he wa goos to his citizens was bc he wanted to be remembered as a good king in history

@homura in wikipedia LSG said LBW was the best choice for a king is it true? i thought he wanted his 8th son to become a king    

btw loved how LM is really shown to influence LBW decision making and i think he really appreciates her support and listen to her advice and she is helping forming the tyrant 

[nevill]

making so  cute

http://tvcast.naver.com/v/694794

[nevill]

JYM bts - so cute

 

 

 

 

 

[nevill]

PHK coffee truck from fans - GTM GSM

 

 

 

[bodashiri]

2 hours ago, nevill said:

@homura in wikipedia LSG said LBW was the best choice for a king is it true? i thought he wanted his 8th son to become a king    

 

No, it is not true, according to the annals of Joseon dynasty.

In August 1392, one month after Joseon was founded, King Taejo (Yi Seong-Gye) discussed with his 3 core ministers (Jo Joon, Jung Do-Jeon, Bae Geuk-Ryeom) over who should be the Crown prince.

Yi Seong-Gye wanted to establish Yi Bang-Beon, the 7th son born from Queen Shindeok / Lady Gang (his second wife), as Crown prince because he loved and respected the queen so much.

King Taejo's first wife died one year before Joseon was founded. At that time, Lady Gang was the only queen of Joseon. She had made every efforts to support her husband with her powerful Gang clan. The king loved her so much. The actual power was in her hands. How could the ministers oppose to her?

One thing the ministers were afraid of was that Bang-Beon was too thoughtless and rash. They advised the king "If your majesty really want to choose one of the queen's 2 sons, the youngest one is better." Therefore, the king's 8th son Yi Bang-Seok was established as Crown prince at the age of 11.

 

2 hours ago, yuukisnow said:

i was wondering why he was wearing any after his wedding since even LM was wearing her hair up 

Blame the writers or directors. 

Bang-Won should have tied a topknot way ealier, especially since he married. But I guess the writers wanted to make his topknot a symbol for a departure from his childhood (or a separation from teacher Sambong).  LOL

[nevill]

40 minutes ago, homura said:

Bang-Won should have tied a topknot way ealier

thanx @homura i actually thought he originally chose the 8th son 

what is a topknot? 

is this the way ppl would know he was married? was it important for a man to show his marital status?

[yuukisnow]

 

@nevill

I don't think BW is a tyran ...  yet

He likes to be in control and hates to feel helpless but I dont think he wants the power for himself or wants to be king. For now he just want to be a politician

as for JDJ being a scholar doesn't make you a good, virtous and selfless person... I found it quite naive.... knowing what or wrong or what is right or what should be done doesn't prevent you from doing bad things like that shin don for example !

 

 

[bodashiri]

1 hour ago, nevill said:

thanx @homura i actually thought he originally chose the 8th son 

what is a topknot? 

is this the way ppl would know he was married? was it important for a man to show his marital status?

 

The flowing locks like Bang-Won's hair means "I am not married" or "I'm a kid"

If a man get married, or if he is recognized as a grown-up man even if he is unmarried (for example, if a little boy is appointed as a government officer), the man should do hair up in a topknot. It's the hair style like teacher Sambong. It is called Sangtoo (상투) in Korean.

I found some pictures about men's Sangtoo. Check out.

https://www.culturecontent.com/content/contentView.do?search_div=CP_AGE&search_div_id=CP_AGE001&cp_code=cp0413&index_id=cp04130021&content_id=cp041300210001&search_left_menu=2

[nevill]

thanx @homura i see instead of a ponytail

[nevill]

58 minutes ago, yuukisnow said:

 

@nevill

I don't think BW is a tyran ...  yet

He likes to be in control and hates to feel helpless but I dont think he wants the power for himself or wants to be king. For now he just want to be a politician

as for JDJ being a scholar doesn't make you a good, virtous and selfless person... I found it quite naive.... knowing what or wrong or what is right or what should be done doesn't prevent you from doing bad things like that shin don for example !

 

 

for me its not just any scholar its specifically JDJ 

as for LBW - i was referring to his words when shocked in the drama his assumption that  losing or gaining power as king has anything to do with him means he already planning to succeed his father although he has 2 older brothers and the sons of the kings rules after their fathers and not the brother

so if either LBG or LBW succeeded LSG one of their sons would have ascended the throne at this point in time Lee Bang Won has no realistic future as a king unless in his head which we have seen in the last scene of ep30

when he realized JDJ he didnt think about his father or brothers losing power only of his own power being lost which mean in his own head he is already a king 

and therefore the birth of a tyrant

[hinatashoyo]

1 hour ago, homura said:

 

 

I thought it was goryeo style for men, and top knot for married man was only in joseon style lol.I have been waiting for him in a topknot since he is sexy when he did that....In the goryeo based drama like shine or go crazy drama, married woman and married man are not using topknot..so maybe that's goryeo style..i am so excited..

If you're a married man and you're hair not in a top knot, isn't that insulting to his wife or to those people around him?? wonder why there's no commotion about it..

What I hate about JDJ is the fact that he's not honest about it. He should have told the lee family about it. Anyone would get angry of what he's done.. Poor BW.. Trust and Loyalty is important here.. OF course, LSG would still help him since that's has no greed to become a king.. but BW contributed the most here but he didn't even know what JDJ is up to..in addition, he want the royal family be excluded from the politics because they are the reason for the corruption..what ?? how can he be sure.?? does he think that sadaebu and the ministers are so clean ? so annoying ..now, speculation around JDJ is true.. He's just using the LEE family to establish the new country..Withou King Taejong, there's no Jang Yeong Shil and King Sejong the GReat

[nevill]

@homura there is a queston on DB forum that maybe you can answer 

"  Did Taejong realize (some of) his people’s dreams during his reign? Could anyone please provide me with some examples? Especially, those which is based on his own idea, not JDJ’s? "

i actually thougt that al LBW reforms were in fact JDJ is it true?

[Guest rainmoon]

Credit: hsjnews

Credit: sona1117

 

 

[hinatashoyo]

 

 

 

[SukBin]

In my opinion the thing that shocked Bang won most was the intention of Jeong Do Jeon to acquire all power to himself and his colleagues and friends that make up Sadeabu and discard the Yi family after using them to found Joseon. The King will be a puppet king with no real power just like the kings during Yi in Gyeom and Jo Min Su and so on......

I do not think he conciously had thought of becoming king at any point until now, he might have aspired and dreamed of serving Joseon and its people using his father's power when he becomes king but he has not till now thought about seizing the position of King to himself.

Bang Won is not our typical White Washed Prince Charming Hero of Korean Drama, he is a multi-layered , realistic , hardcore Leader of men who believes in the bitterness of Justice to safeguard a Society where common man can dream and aspire.

In his reign he had organized a system where common people can tell the king directly their woes and difficulties. He cutout the greedy Bureaucracy that Jung do Jeon had faith in and instead relied on Hands on relationship between people and King.

For him there were only two entities , the king and his people.The King had to be the most powerful man in the kingdom and the welfare of the common people was his greatest responsiblity.In order to achieve that and fulfill that the King should not let any third part mediate between himself and his people.This was Lee Bang Won's firm belief.

No country in the World until now has ascended to the top without people like Yi Bang Won taking upon themselves to lead the nation and cutting the crap coming in between.

If Yi Bang Won had submitted to Jeong do Jeon and let the Royal family and the king become a pushover like the child Goryeo king , we would have seen the repeat of Goryeo where another Yi in Gyeom or another military dictator would have become proxy kings and enriched themselves with corruption.

For all his great intellect Jeong Do Jeon was blind to the character of Sadaebu scholars, just because he had a selfless Sadeabu Scholar friend like Jung Mong Ju, he couldnt even imagine what would happen to his designed system had scholars of nature of Yi in Gyeom become Prime ministers.Was Hong in Bang not a established Sadeabu Confician Scholar, look how despotic tyrant he turned out.

Jung Do Jeon needed to realize that the powerful Bureaucracy can be kept in check only by two entities the King or the Common People.Since there was no concept of Democracy then the only valid candidate would be the King.The King needed to be powerful enough to keep the Bureaucracy in check and lead the nation.

Morever people blame Bang won for killing Jung Do Jeon and his half brothers, but it was a situation of Kill or be Killed, Bang Won had come to know that Jung Do Jeon and his great Sadeabu scholars cum ministers were readying to eliminate him , he striked first and eliminated them instead .Eliminating his half brothers was the only way because as long as they were alive , the Sadeabu will use their power as future kings and try to eliminate him.

 Later on as King Taejong eliminated the relatives of his Queen and his Daughter in law because he saw how the second wife and her relatives of his family influenced his father into favoring them.

Without Yi Bang Won's drive to lead the nation, Sejong would never have inherited a stable and peaceful nation with a powerful king at the centre.

Sejong's policies of ruling by discussion and dialogue only work when there is absolute power with the King.No one would like to negotiate when they have the upper hand and power and the other party with no power.

Also people blame Bang won that he stole Jung Do Jeon's design while vilifying him, first of all the structure of Bureaucracy was totally redesigned by Bang Won to become king centrific and there were many things that were introduced in Joseon by Taejong for common people that were not any plans of Jung Do Jeon example the system where common people could interact with the King to tell him about their needs and difficulties, whereas as per Jung Do Jeon , his Sadeabu Ministers would decide what were needed for people and King will have to just put his seal on them.  Taejong also encouraged and built up a strong military to safeguard Joseon. Not to mention , he encouraged Science and Technology to aid Joseon to a new future.

To all people who only see Yi Bang Won's ambitions and term him selfish, they need to be reminded that it was him who selflessly voluntarily went as hostage to Ming at the risk of his life.He was instrumental in rescuing his brothers, his father's second wife and her sons from last king of Goryeo custody risking his own life.

Of all the sons of Yi Song Gye he was the one who put himself at the forefront of revolution risking beheading by Treason by the Goryeo Government.

Not to forget when the revolution was all but over by the stalemate between Jung DO Jeon and his friend Jung Mong Ju, it was Bang Won who stepped up and eliminated the loyal but narrow sighted scholar Jung Mong Ju  eventhough he knew that by doing that he would risk being shunned by his own father and the people of Goryeo, if all that he wanted was a good name and power, he would have asassinated him in secret without his direct involvment.Instead he stuck to his belief that revolution was needed by common people to protect them from corruption of nobles and it was their duty to protect them no matter who stands their way or no matter what damage it may inflict on him.

Last but not least I would like to say that Yi Bang Won became  the leader the turbulent times needed. He focussed more on what was needed by people more than moral ambiguity.Yi Bang Won in retrospect is a mixture of ruthlessness of Winston Churchill who let London be bombed inspite of knowing the enemy plans beforehand in order to feign ignorance and win the war, Yi Bang won is also a mixture of idealism of  Queen Elizabeth who  believed that her duty for her nation was more important than her family and relations, who never married a person and instead married her duty to her nation.Yi Bang Won is also a mixture of the firm determination of scholar Chanakya of the great Maurya dynasty of India who himself brought a dynastic revolution like Jung Do Jeon and put a common man Chandragupta Maurya as King removing the powerful but corrupt Nanda Dynasty.

[Sam Royce]

great analysis suk bin couldn't have said it any better , I check on drama-bean . So many criticism from many people calling bang won a tyrant, power-hungry . 

[hinatashoyo]

2 hours ago, SukBin said:

 

Bravo.. love your complete explanation!! I am crying again everytime I read his selfless sacrifices. I just don't understand how people viewed him a bad king, no matter how you said to them that he was a great king but then won't believe.. they compared him to the belief in the 21st century.. Without King Taejong, I don't think Joseon will last long.. JDJ just want to rule the country without doing anything, it is his reforms, he initiated change but everything is done by BW: assassinating powerful key officials.. I don't think revolution and change of dynasty will be possible without BW. Forgive me, but I am on BW's side. Remember If no BW, there's no Jang Yeong Shil and King Sejong.. Yeah, in JDJ's drama he was sent to MIng he offered himself but too bad for JDJ cause BW was loved by the MIng Emperor. He let him go without scratch.

[hinatashoyo]

2 hours ago, SukBin said:

No country in the World until now has ascended to the top without people like Yi Bang Won taking upon themselves to lead the nation and cutting the crap coming in between.

What do you mean by this,please explain?

[SukBin]

25 minutes ago, hinatashoyo said:

What do you mean by this,please explain?

If you see most of the founders of great nations, or leaders , kings who elevated their nation to greatness were single-minded , ruthless and pushed through obstacles of their Nations without worrying about  the means to do it. Example: Queen Elizabeth ushered in the Golden Age of the mighty British Empire where the Sun never set. She was as ruthless and as determined as Bang Won. All her competitors were put to death eg:Queen Mary of Scotland etc... similarly whenever there was a Nation that rose to Greatness , there was a determined Leader/King leading it with single minded determinded determination ..... more examples are Genghis Khan founded the Great Mongol Empire , he was a Ruthless warrior and a Great tactician like Bang Won, Great Emperor Ashoka of India who ruled one of the biggest empires had to kill all his half brothers when they tried to asassinate him.Julius Ceasar was one of the greatest Generals of Rome who made Roman Empire reach its pinnacle when he became Emperor was ruthless as well same is the case with Alexander the Great, he had a vision of one Empire of the World and his policy was Submit or Subjugate like Bangwon.Similarly Emperor Akbar of Mughal Dynasty was Ruthless in establishing the vast Mughal Empire.

The common factors in all the above personalities was they brought greatness to their land and people through their ruthlessness and single minded determination.Even now people remember them with Pride that they belong to their nation, they were born on the same soil as them.

[hinatashoyo]

26 minutes ago, SukBin said:

 

Thanks for the explanation...:))