[Mainland Chinese Drama 2015] Nirvana in Fire 琅琊榜

[outsanity]

LOL.

The Disguiser will be the one show that comes close to matching up to Lang Ya Bang in terms of plot, character and depth. On the plus side, it also has guns and secret agents, so that's pretty cool.

I wish Wang Kai was in more shows! I love all the characters he played and he's SO HANDSOME. Not to forget, his voice is superb. I haven't been fond of the shows Wallace Huo has been in, though. 

I don't get the English name - what on earth is "Nirvana in Fire"? >_< I can't seem to draw the connection between Nivana in Fire and the context of Lang Ya Bang. 

I also love the plot arc of taking down Xia Jiang due to how complicated it got. They tried to outsmart him and ended up being outsmarted, hehe. 

I think Lin Shu is a great character. I wish there was more about how he established himself in JiangHu and what he did after he fell from the cliff side. As much as I love Wang Kai/Prince Jing, I do feel that Jingyan is overrated. I don't know if he just pales too much in comparison to MCS, but wow, Jingyan is dense naive rash. He took WAY too long to recognize his childhood brother and he is occasionally frustrating to watch.

[lilhanh]

Because I'm so addicted to Nirvana In Fire, and truly missing those actors in it, I decided to watch the Disguiser which so many of the main characters in it.  I just did an unhealthy marathon and am now truly satisfied...  Great acting.  Truly great team of actors and I love them all.  Going to Watch NIF again since I want more of the Disguiser now. lol  THis is such a vicious cycle.

I know exactly what you mean.I am unable to stop rewatching these two either and they were the cause of the only TV marathon I ever did in my life. I need more shows like this! If you're a fan of Wang Kai (like I am) I recommend this one: 新神探联盟.

I found it!!!  https://cfensi.wordpress.com/2013/08/06/new-detective-squad-brings-chinas-favorite-detective-to-republican-era/

 

Thanks will look for it to watch...please continue to recommend!  I love Wang Kai, Hu ge, and Jin Dong!!!! AND the sister!!  Incredible actors!!!

Edited October 27, 2015 by lilhanh

[lilhanh]

LOL. I'm trying to avoid The Disguiser until I go on leave in December. Marathoning Lang Ya Bang was bad enough. I think I did some major damage to our internet allowance two weekends ago. 

That Wang Kai is quite ubiquitous at the moment. I notice that he's in that Wallace Huo drama, which looks like a I Remember You remake. But I'm going to wait until that one finishes airing before taking the plunge. 

Anyway, I'm taking my time to rewatch LYB. The show doesn't get old... and every drama I've watched this year seems to pale into ordinariness after it. It's wonderful in the big picture and wonderful in the details. I really wish they had kept the original title in English or called it The List at the very least. I rather liked that MCS had his rather extensive collection of name plaques that he'd throw into his brazier from time to time. Loved the crackling sound of burnt wood portending the doom of some corrupt official.

I truly love this drama - I marathon through it in a speed that was unhealthy but so worth it. I love the connections between the characters, the overarching theme/big plot of revenge & restoring family name and the small intricacies and politics. I love how MCS outsmarts everyone and outsmart the tactics meant to outsmart him. 

Personally, I find a (b)romance between MCS and Prince Jing more beautiful than the romance between MCS and NiHuang. I love all the flashbacks and little touching moments. MCS suffered everything and did everything for Prince Jing; I love the "I chose you" and when he said he'd bear all the burden, bloodshed and darkness for Prince Jing. (Kind of makes me wonder if Prince Jing, who is so righteous and simpleminded can really survive the court without MCS...)

Anyway, I think the ending is perfect. A happy ending is, of course, happy, but this ending wraps it up so flawlessly. It truly is the most perfectly bittersweet ending I've ever seen in any drama or show. 

In terms of actors, Hu Ge is amazing and Wang Kai is to damn handsome. 

My favourite arc has to be when MCS takes down Xia Jiang and Prince Yu. It was gloriously beautiful in its execution. Not only because he undid the damage that they did, he used the very tactic that they used to create a rift between him and Jingyan and turned it against the original instigators. I can watch that arc with happy abandon over and over again.

I think one of the real surprises... dark horses in this show... is Yujing. Despite his sometimes boyish frivolous demeanour, there's something very perceptive about him. He certainly has more wit and intelligence than first meets the eye.

The show was right to focus on all the male relationships. Not just between Jingyan and MCS but also the relationships that MCS has with Feiliu, Meng Zi, Jingrui, Yujing and his two attendants. So brilliantly done. Even as MCS, Lin Shu continues to command the love and loyalty of the people around him. 

_______________________________________________

I too enjoyed how the Emperor was written. What a complex and deeply flawed character. In more ways than one he was the architect of the destruction of his own family. He allowed himself to be used and manipulated. Ironically, the Jingyan that he didn't have much time for was insulated from his corrupting influence. I loved that scene when he finally comes face to face with Lin Shu and declares to him that the throne changes people. It's an interesting statement.  But I don't believe the throne changes people, I think it reveals what is already there and amplifies it many times over.

I don't think MCS destroyed the court. The rot had already set in a long time ago but he tore off the layers of corruption that had already undermined much of the superstructure.

Yes...do wait...because it will get ADDICTIVE!!!!  The first few episodes, I had to get into because the history, details, and language gets so complex.  I normally am not a huge fan of the 30-40s period drama.  But man-oh-man, this is to date my FAVORITE show for this time period!  You will not get bored as all the relationships are incredible to follow.  Bromance in this is as good as LYB if not more so.  Keep us posted!

[outsanity]

I know exactly what you mean.I am unable to stop rewatching these two either and they were the cause of the only TV marathon I ever did in my life. I need more shows like this! If you're a fan of Wang Kai (like I am) I recommend this one: 新神探联盟.

I found it!!!  https://cfensi.wordpress.com/2013/08/06/new-detective-squad-brings-chinas-favorite-detective-to-republican-era/

Thanks will look for it to watch...please continue to recommend!  I love Wang Kai, Hu ge, and Jin Dong!!!! AND the sister!!  Incredible actors!!!

Haha, Wang Kai and Zhang Duo has the best and funniest bromance/friendship/rivalry ever in New Detective Squad, beating Nirvana in Fire and The Disguiser. =D The entire thing is on Youtube, if you can understand Chinese :3 As for plot, the ending makes me very, very grumpy, but the plots in general are very intricate and lovely. 

It is a MUST WATCH in my opinion :3

[Guest]

 

Nirvana in Fire Original Soundtrack [320K] - total of 30 tracks.

Part 1 

Part 2

Part 3

English translations (cr. Dramawiki & Viki): http://wiki.d-addicts.com/Nirvana_in_Fire_OST

Edited November 6, 2015 by yoonmi66

[40somethingahjumma]

@outsanity -- Ah yes, I've heard of that one. A Sherlock-Bao Qing Tian combo. I couldn't find it in the usual places but if you say it's on YouTube then that's good. I shouldn't need Eng subs but it all depends on how complex the cases get. Seems like Wang Kai is making a career of playing humourless, stony-faced characters.  Wasn't it odd seeing him crack the occasional smile in LYB?

I can only speculate that the English title Nirvana in Fire has something to do with the fact that the main character who is thought dead, isn't dead but wreaking vengeance in the shadows.  

I don't mind cutting Jingyan a bit of slack.  Undoubtedly the clues were there if he cared to look but everyone especially MCS was so desperate to keep him in the dark. But it's part of the rigidness of his character too. I think there was a part of him that didn't want to or preferred not to believe that his dearest friend in the world could have ended up in such a state.

@lilhanh -- I do like the 30s and 40s but I'm a teeny bit concerned about where the political side of things go. That will be the deciding factor for me. Anyway, I'll only know when I've seen it.

Edited October 28, 2015 by 40somethingahjumma

[outsanity]

@40somethingahjumma: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGg9Bj6PXUo

That's first episode of the Detective show and it goes all to 35 =3 I don't think it gets that complicated, but it has a lot of things going on.

Aww, but Wang Kai's characters are adorable. I love his characters, hehe. It's funnier to see how comparatively animated he is in real life. xD

Eh. Still not really, but I guess it's not uncommon for things to make sense in one language and lose it meaning, even through a direct translation.

He needs some slack, though I would appreciate less angst and tears from him. xD It's like, the bells were ringing since they first met, but Jingyan hears nothing until it smacks him in the face. Wang Kai did say it's the kind of character that wouldn't fare too well in real life. 

I don't like 30-40 shows, but my mother does. And they tend to have more plot and action than romance, so it's better than most shows out there.

[Carmarie]

On 10/27/2015 at 2:36 PM, outsanity said:

On 10/27/2015 at 4:05 AM, 40somethingahjumma said:

On 10/27/2015 at 4:05 AM, 40somethingahjumma said:

 

I think Lin Shu is a great character. I wish there was more about how he established himself in JiangHu and what he did after he fell from the cliff side. As much as I love Wang Kai/Prince Jing, I do feel that Jingyan is overrated. I don't know if he just pales too much in comparison to MCS, but wow, Jingyan is dense naive rash. He took WAY too long to recognize his childhood brother and he is occasionally frustrating to watch.

In one of the earlier episode, Lin Shu said that because of an illness, his appearance had changed.  I do not fault Jingyan for taking too long to recognize him.  He thought is friend was dead; therefore, he could see similarities between the two, but he would not automatic think, this is my boyhood friend.  

I also love the character of Lin Shu, I love his calmness and ability assess future plays,come up with a strategy based on his assessment, and make the right call. Love it.  It think Jingyan is too straight laced. It is great to have moral character, and love for the common people; however, it is naive to think that he will go far thinking that way.  If he is going to be Emperor, he must learn how to play politics.  Politics is not for the fainthearted or the naive.  The big boys will chew him up and spit him out.  It is a good thing he has Lin Shu in his corner. Great drama.

[outsanity]

@Carmarie: But won't it make sense for Jingyan begin his investigations earlier on, since he's been suspicious the entire time and all these hints are being tossed at him? I love the guy, but I really don't know if he can survive Chinese court and politics without Lin Shu xD

And yes, I love Meichang Su too. =3= I like Hu Ge playing this kind of character more than carefree characters. He plays it off with a hint of his usual self and it shines through in the best moments.

Oh! And Nirvana in Fire also reminds me of 勇敢的心 for anyone who wants to check out something else. It's a anti-Japanese era show & 勇敢的心 has a very calm main character who outsmarts everyone else one by one. It's kind of slow, but I love my calm chessmaster characters =D

That said, I think I am completely out of good things to watch T______T I attempted that popular romance-fantasy drama, Journey of Flower and all I can say is -shudders-. I like stuffs with action/psychological plot and minimal romance.

[40somethingahjumma]

I think Jingyan could have, if he wanted to and if his suspicions were strong enough, to investigate MCS a little more closely. And to his defence, everyone around him did such a great job of keeping things under wraps. But we're told all throughout the drama that he has a rigid personality and harbours deep-seated prejudice against tacticians in general which is a double-edged sword in politics. I think it's a combination of factors that keeps Jingyan from getting too close to MCS but I agree that it was necessary for the two guys to maintain a certain measure of distance for MCS' plans and schemes to work as well as they did. That niggling suspicion that Jingyan always had against MCS' motives was undoubtedly something that MCS encouraged by being blunt about using people as pawns or chess pieces.

Clearly if it hadn't been for MCS, there would be no way Jingyan would have even got to first base but they both knew that anyway with Jingyan having no stomach for political machinations. However, during that journey to the throne, Jingyan was able to cultivate friendly relationships with an assortment of like-minded officials and surround himself with quality men so that when MCS was no longer in the picture, Jingyan would still be able to rule wisely with the help of a whole bunch of men with long beards and flowing robes.

No ruler is expected to know everything but they should have enough nous and humility to find themselves the best advisors that money, power and goodwill can afford.

I wouldn't mind it if they made a prequel of how the Jiangzuo Alliance came to be. There's probably enough of a story for another 54 episodes.

Edited October 29, 2015 by 40somethingahjumma

[valsava]

LOL.

The Disguiser will be the one show that comes close to matching up to Lang Ya Bang in terms of plot, character and depth. On the plus side, it also has guns and secret agents, so that's pretty cool.

I wish Wang Kai was in more shows! I love all the characters he played and he's SO HANDSOME. Not to forget, his voice is superb. I haven't been fond of the shows Wallace Huo has been in, though. 

I don't get the English name - what on earth is "Nirvana in Fire"? >_< I can't seem to draw the connection between Nivana in Fire and the context of Lang Ya Bang. 

I also love the plot arc of taking down Xia Jiang due to how complicated it got. They tried to outsmart him and ended up being outsmarted, hehe. 

I think Lin Shu is a great character. I wish there was more about how he established himself in JiangHu and what he did after he fell from the cliff side. As much as I love Wang Kai/Prince Jing, I do feel that Jingyan is overrated. I don't know if he just pales too much in comparison to MCS, but wow, Jingyan is dense naive rash. He took WAY too long to recognize his childhood brother and he is occasionally frustrating to watch.

Hi All I've Been So Engrossed In This Drama Since I Started Watching On Viki,  But I Do Have To Agree With You @outsanity,  In Wanting To Learn How He Survive after That Fall And Just Who Is Fei Liu.. I Really Like His Character In This Drama But Have To Wonder Was He A Child That Belong To One Of The Previous Army Generals Or Was He Abandon Xiao Shu Protects Him Like A Son And Just Who Is He.. Who Taught Him His Martial Arts Was It Xiao Shu Before He Took The Poison Lot Of Lingering Questions In This Drama But I Do Enjoy It..

 I'm going to have to check out the disguiser but I see viki has only 7 and a half episodes sub any other sites have this series completed..   

 

@40somethingahjumma,  You Said:    I wouldn't mind it if they made a prequel of how the Jiangzuo Alliance came to be. There's probably enough of a story for another 54 episodes. 

 

Right just this enough to make up for another drama, Because I really want to know more about Fei Lui and how he got all that Qi energy

 

[IMOmusings]

Fei Liu's story is only about 2 paragraphs in the novel:

He was kidnapped by a Japanese secret organisation and trained to become a child assassin along with a group of other children. To control them, the children were fed drugs that altered their minds. 

The Jiangsuo Alliance were able to destroy the group but most, if not all, the other children were too badly affected by the drugs to save and return to normal life. Fei Liu was lucky and he was saved by Mei Chang Su.

As for his martial arts....he originally trained in a form of yin qi energy...which is considered bad for long term health, so they removed this energy from his body and re-trained him with yang qi energy. I may have gotten yin/yang mixed up, but you know what I mean. 

Many of the questions people have after the drama are actually answered in the novel, but it's done so in character thoughts...which the drama never uses i.e. voiceovers, so it's difficult to encompass everything. This might be because they planned for a sequel so these details will be answered later...but if they aren't (the questions answered that is), the story isn't really portrayed in its entirety just through Nirvana in Fire. 

[40somethingahjumma]

I think we were probably given as much information as we needed to understand the show that we saw. While it would have been interesting to know where Fei Liu came from (sounds like he has a Dark Angel past with his own Mantacore), it wasn't necessary to the storyline that we saw.

This show is going to spoil things for me from now on. The writing of the characters will be hard to beat especially in most K dramas. Mei Chang Su is such a brilliant character. Not just one step ahead of everyone but two, three even four steps. A kind of Zhuge Liang reinvented. And yet, one could sense his fragility... his broken body barely holding it together at times... was his kryptonite against his uncanny insight.  Imagine how dangerous he would have been with that mind and a body that was fighting fit.  

[IMOmusings]

Fei Liu's story would have only been relevant if they had used the first 8 chapters of the first edition (I think it was the first edition).

I meant more along the lines of other plot holes. There were a few I came across when watching it but didn't really take too much notice since I had already read the novel. A few questions came up on other forums as well. 

The drama is good, but it definitely could have been better. It differs from the novel in that it is more based on the workings of court and war than the novel was. Although the novel was still mainly about the revenge for the deaths at Meiling, there were more emotive scenes between Lin Shu and Prince Jing. I would have liked to see the novel being kept authentic in transition to the small screen...but can also understand why they expanded the LS x NH storyline. Both versions were good...but I'm a novel lover xD

Either way...this drama is going to be hard to beat.

I wonder if Hu Ge will be looking to do more ancient dramas anytime soon...he doesn't seem to like them as much as moderns.

[40somethingahjumma]

 

The drama is good, but it definitely could have been better. It differs from the novel in that it is more based on the workings of court and war than the novel was. Although the novel was still mainly about the revenge for the deaths at Meiling, there were more emotive scenes between Lin Shu and Prince Jing. I would have liked to see the novel being kept authentic in transition to the small screen...but can also understand why they expanded the LS x NH storyline. Both versions were good...but I'm a novel lover xD

Either way...this drama is going to be hard to beat.

I wonder if Hu Ge will be looking to do more ancient dramas anytime soon...he doesn't seem to like them as much as moderns.

Having not read the novel (and will probably not be any position to do so) I can't comment on the relative merits of the drama when measured against the source material. Still I have no doubt that there are things that would be lost in adaptation due to time and budgetary constraints as well as audience appeal. It's inevitable that comparisons will be made especially when everyone has their own idea of what should or should not be included in the original. The idea of "authenticity" when discussing an adaptation is I believe, highly debatable. To this day I've not yet seen a Mr Darcy that I think fits my vision that I've read from the book although all the Mr Darcys that I've seen have their own charms.

However, these days (I'm mellowing in my middle age ) I tend also to think that for a show to be too close to the source material can be a problem as I've seen in some other adaptations.

Overall, I thought the character balance was quite superb. It's so much harder to juggle an ensemble cast on screen IMO than it is on the printed page. To give every character their fair share of screen time to make it worthwhile casting them in the first place is a tough gig.

But I'm sure you knew all that already.

I imagine that Hu Ge fears what all good serious actors fear... of being typecast. He is largely known for being in period dramas so he is probably attempting to try his hand elsewhere. I'm really enjoying his stint in Good Times. It's a much more interesting rom com than I expected considering how by-the-numbers it is.

[outsanity]

@IMOmusings I think I am going to read the novel as soon as my Chinese picks up. I might read English translations first but the metaphoric and poetic values tend to get lost in translation. Do you have links to either version, in either language?

I'm very fond of the war and politics manipulations in the drama, though I wished there was a little more on what happened in the past. Those few flashbacks were not enough to really carry the impact, although I still appreciate the friendship-sentiment.

In general, I don't like most romance depicted on television. It's too obvious that the actors are acting, everything is scripted and the special chemistry is just not there.  

[lilhanh]

Okay...so I've found this new interview that celebrated Hu Ge's achievements.  Wanted to share and if anyone here can understand Mandarin, would you please summarize what they are saying, esp. when his friends were talking about him (ie. Wallace, George, etc)?  

 

 

[outsanity]

Is there anything specific you'd like to know? 

I can understand it, but don't have time to translate the whole thing. 

[IMOmusings]

@outsanity The Chinese version of the novel: https://tw.ixdzs.com/read/7/7135/ (I think this is the first edition based on other comments I've seen)
As for the English version...there are one or two floating around but none that are complete. 
If you can read Vietnamese I can link you to another version? xD 

I'm 50/50 about the increased Nihuang x Lin Shu arc in the drama. I like that it allows us to see another side to the Mei Chang Su/Lin Shu balancing act that Hu Ge has going on...but it also takes out some of the more light-hearted scenes that would have accounted for about...20min extra of film? Admittedly...they would have had to pay for another actor so I can see the drawback in that. *Sigh*

@40somethingahjumma I totally understand ^.^ it's just that I felt the drama was a tad more...clinical...in it's depiction of the Meng Zhi x Prince Jing x Lin Shu/Mei Chang Su bromance than it could have been. There's one scene in particular that I was sad to see go. 

When Prince Jing first finds out the truth of Mei Chang Su's identity in front of the Emperor...that scene was totally re-written. Based on some commentaries on other forums, apparently the producers wanted a more confrontational scene to pave the way for the fall-out between Lin Shu and the Emperor at the end and a turning point for Prince Jing. 

The novel version is somewhat comedic but much more emotional as well.

There actually aren't too many changes to the amount of screen time other than Nihuang. I reckon they probably could have included one more episode and some of the scenes that fans have found in previews that weren't shown could probably have been done...although personally, I'm not too sure what they are since I've seen so many versions of the drama preview video @_@.

 

I'm hoping there will be more news/rumours about LYB 2 soon...although I hope this time it doesn't take 2-4 years to get to air 

[outsanity]

@IMOmusings My understanding from reading Vietnese is much less than my understanding of reading Chinese. =3 I'll stick with the chinese version, thank you ;D

Well, the Nihuang/LinShu is added in to appeal to the mass audience, who simply loves a dose of romance in everything. I really like the character of Nihuang, so I can't complain too much. I suppose they also wanted to keep the show in the melodramatic/dark/brooding tone, with some hints of dry humor rather than add in something lighthearted that'll disrupt the balance.