Add and Subtract Game

[joccu]

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[Thong Thin]

44 minutes ago, larus said:

Then the cofeine doesn`t have an influence on you anymore.

 

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Larus, I can only drink coffee or Chinese tea  in the morning else I will be a night owl.

At times when friends asked to go out for drink, I can only take juices. 

 

Hi @joccu

Still snowing over your side. 

Is getting hot over here. 

 

+2

[larus]

6 minutes ago, Thong Thin said:

Larus, I can only drink coffee or Chinese tea  in the morning else I will be a night owl.

At times when friends asked to go out for drink, I can only take juices. 

 

I am the same. I have problem sleeping even without coffee. I still drink it some time but only in the morning (or until 12 AM maximum).

I like the coffee aroma very much. I ate candies, Ice cream, cakes with coffee. 

 

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[Sleepy Owl]

9 minutes ago, sadthe1st said:

@Sleepy Owl sometimes it could be, client has some budget which they need to spend by that Q.. but in no hurry to get the solution out..

 

 

Not sure Chingu, but sure some clients are like that. The client who does not even know their requirement, are known to change the requirements or add more in between, and they did this to the point, that the CIO has said to not accept any changes in requirements and tell them to speak to him first. This thing already caused a lot problems in the project. Just think one person spent 40-50 hours working based on those requirement only for them to change it by sending one mail 

 

@Min2206 I think you have been troubled a lot to know the troubling clients so well 

 

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[Thong Thin]

2 minutes ago, Sleepy Owl said:

 

Not sure Chingu, but sure some clients are like that. The client who does not even know their requirement, are known to change the requirements or add more in between, and they did this to the point, that the CIO has said to not accept any changes in requirements and tell them to speak to him first. This thing already caused a lot problems in the project. Just think one person spent 40-50 hours working based on those requirement only for them to change it by sending one mail 

 

@Min2206 I think you have been troubled a lot to know the troubling clients so well 

 

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Don't the client signed an agreement on the project with details specification stating what has been agreed, any additional add on not stated subject to additional charges. 

 

+2

 

[joccu]

454

 

@Thong Thin  No snow today. It´s been so far really sunny winter(-10) day. 

 

[sadthe1st]

hi @joccu

 

 

17 minutes ago, larus said:

I like the coffee aroma very much. I ate candies, Ice cream, cakes with coffee. 

coffee candies are super nice!

 

 

18 minutes ago, Sleepy Owl said:

Just think one person spent 40-50 hours working based on those requirement only for them to change it by sending one mail

this happens a lot when customers requested for product evaluations.. my AEs always suffer in agony when that happen.. definitely need an SOW when it comes to projects else a lot of labor hours get wasted cos of "fickle minded" customers.

 

^ could this be @Min2206 too? i'm joking!

 

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[Sleepy Owl]

40 minutes ago, Thong Thin said:

Don't the client signed an agreement on the project with details specification stating what has been agreed, any additional add on not stated subject to additional charges. 

 

 

Chingu, some requirement for processes come as the project goes ahead. The big processes are already decided, and the other comparatively smaller ones, they come up, sometimes when they look further in what they want or when some modules cannot do it the standard way. Then they got to share the requirements with us properly after some meeting with us. 

 

Now the guy whose projects I took over, he was quite experienced one, and chances are he understood them in the meeting and didn't require the requirements in written. But still, there are some protocols which are there for us, if he had got them in writing things would be much better, and we can actually use it when the customer asks changes in requirements. Since they don't say "we would like to add or we would like to change", they say "why is this not added? It was discussed in the meeting and we said it is important". Here now you can't really say they are wrong on it on their face, until or unless you are a higher position guy who can confront them. 

 

But anyway, whenever some new process is being asked to be made or configured, the default timeline given is 4 weeks, no matter how much urgent that thing is.

 

24 minutes ago, sadthe1st said:

this happens a lot when customers requested for product evaluations.. my AEs always suffer in agony when that happen.. definitely need an SOW when it comes to projects else a lot of labor hours get wasted cos of "fickle minded" customers.

 

 

Chingu, don't mention the product evaluations. We had a client, where the person in contact from their side, she was testing the product, and then, her manager would do it, taking up a lot of times. Plus there were times, when she would ask to change something, by the time we would do it, her manager would want another change. For me, well it was not much of a big task as I was in the support role and not in the lead, but my friend from module who had to deal with her would be angry all the time. 

 

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[Min2206]

59 minutes ago, larus said:

 

I am the same. I have problem sleeping even without coffee. I still drink it some time but only in the morning (or until 12 AM maximum).

I like the coffee aroma very much. I ate candies, Ice cream, cakes with coffee. 

 

 

I too like you and @Thong Thin only take coffee in the morning or afternoon.  Once past 5 or 6 pm, no more tea or coffee -- else I be awake like tilll 4 - 5 am like an OWL.



 

59 minutes ago, Sleepy Owl said:

 

Not sure Chingu, but sure some clients are like that. The client who does not even know their requirement, are known to change the requirements or add more in between, and they did this to the point, that the CIO has said to not accept any changes in requirements and tell them to speak to him first. This thing already caused a lot problems in the project. Just think one person spent 40-50 hours working based on those requirement only for them to change it by sending one mail 

 

@Min2206 I think you have been troubled a lot to know the troubling clients so well 

 

my case was more internal customers - department heads / users.  They each want their own set of requirement but not looking at big picture, which might hit the back end.  These front end users want A-Z as long as it is easier to them to have, see and click but the back-enders will have issues later.  We in between have to ensure all ends are tied up and things flow from front to end with printable reports and less steps or clicsk for any users in between.   Imagine to come out with just one template form can argue for months (we have weekly meetings) -- too many heads ! 

Glad i was just a team lead but not the senior team lead , and we had a strong-headed project manager - she calmly took all the $hitt$ from the users, then argue back forth with developers, then threw a bit of the $hit@@S back to the users.   If these don't get through, we threw it to the CIO and CEO.  You all decide and shut the heads up.  But we IT guys still get the brunt.  Hhahahahahha!

 

13 minutes ago, Sleepy Owl said:

 

But anyway, whenever some new process is being asked to be made or configured, the default timeline given is 4 weeks, no matter how much urgent that thing is.

 

Yours 4 weeks?  Waaaa .....  our 2 weeks!

 

 

456

[MayanEcho]

454

 

[Min2206]

Hello @MayanEcho

How's your day?


Coffee?

 

 

452

[Sleepy Owl]

29 minutes ago, Min2206 said:

Yours 4 weeks?  Waaaa .....  our 2 weeks!

 

By default it is 4 weeks, no matter how much small that process is. This is mainly because that is not the only process we will be working on, each person from our team has multiple simultaneous processes to work on and we need to set priority based on the timelines. At the same time, we get issues to resolve too every now and then, and those issues take their own time. Of course for them too we give timeline, which is usually 10-15 days long one, based on priority, sometimes we need to resolve it asap, like the one I got yesterday had to resolved in emergency (wasn't a big one too) since it would affect product launch. 

 

 

29 minutes ago, Min2206 said:

my case was more internal customers - department heads / users.  They each want their own set of requirement but not looking at big picture, which might hit the back end.  These front end users want A-Z as long as it is easier to them to have, see and click but the back-enders will have issues later.  We in between have to ensure all ends are tied up and things flow from front to end with printable reports and less steps or clicsk for any users in between.   Imagine to come out with just one template form can argue for months (we have weekly meetings) -- too many heads ! 

Glad i was just a team lead but not the senior team lead , and we had a strong-headed project manager - she calmly took all the $hitt$ from the users, then argue back forth with developers, then threw a bit of the $hit@@S back to the users.   If these don't get through, we threw it to the CIO and CEO.  You all decide and shut the heads up.  But we IT guys still get the brunt.  Hhahahahahha!

 

Well, I do know this thing. Most of the times, the person pressuring us to do the tasks on priority and on ad-hoc basis is not the client, but someone from another team. They give their own timeline to the client which is sometimes ridiculous, like one time they asked me to complete a task within a couple of hours and I was like "The fastest I can do it is in 1 week, but that is when I just do this" so after some long argument and involving a senior guy from my team to see what he would suggest, 3 weeks was suggested. So yeah, I could do it within 1 week or lesser, but why should I just mess up my own tasks for a new task like that. I will be answerable for my own tasks, and if I take this one by promising their timeline, I will have to take ownership of it too and answer why it was not completed on time. 

 

Since I joined, I have been seeing the whole arguments and fights happening over timeline, and I just follow the 4 weeks default one, no matter who the person is telling me, until it is not the higher up guy (which never happened to me). But when the higher up guys want something to be done on ad-hoc basis, they usually distribute some of that person's task to someone else. So when people say it should be done faster to me, I just tell them it is not possible, and if it really is urgent, either meet my team leader, or CIO, and whenever I did this, I rarely got a call or message for it to be done one priority. 

 

454

[iksunijini]

456

 

 

haii all!

[joccu]

454

 

[Sleepy Owl]

456

 

[Ernie]

454 

[MayanEcho]

452

 

@Min2206 not too tiring today 

 

@sadthe1st getting there, in a day or two 

 

Hello @Sleepy Owl @joccu @Thong Thin @Ernie

[Min2206]

Hello @joccu  did I say hi earlier ... to many Hi(s) .. hehehehe
  coffee?


 

1 hour ago, Thong Thin said:

Don't the client signed an agreement on the project with details specification stating what has been agreed, any additional add on not stated subject to additional charges. 

 

Well @Thong Thin    @Sleepy Owl has explained the big vs small process and planned vs unplanned (ad hoc) processes to you - very similar - all signed by the senior management team but people on the ground don't care - I just want my requirement, they will say  

 

 

32 minutes ago, Sleepy Owl said:

.Since I joined, I have been seeing the whole arguments and fights happening over timeline, and I just follow the 4 weeks default one, no matter who the person is telling me, until it is not the higher up guy (which never happened to me). But when the higher up guys want something to be done on ad-hoc basis, they usually distribute some of that person's task to someone else. So when people say it should be done faster to me, I just tell them it is not possible, and if it really is urgent, either meet my team leader, or CIO, and whenever I did this, I rarely got a call or message for it to be done one priority. 

 

Smart ... i did same too - I direct them to my seniors or the manager.   But now they smart too - they email the SRS first, to whole world, then call.     

Enough said.   That was once upon a time.  Now thinking back, we had good laugh. 


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Edit - Hello @Ernie

 

[joccu]

448

 

@Min2206 thank you for the coffee.    time to go out for a walk and enjoy the sunny day. 

[Min2206]

10 minutes ago, joccu said:

 

@Min2206 thank you for the coffee.    time to go out for a walk and enjoy the sunny day. 

Enjoy your sunny winter moments. 

 

 

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