[Official] SPARTACE COUPLE KimJongkook-SongJiHyo

[assyl4]

@athoughtcloud1 @linzer03 

totally agree with your opinions!!! God, i re-watched RM from the early episodes till the latest (honestly, i skipped a lot just to see SA moments) and saw how their interactions are changing. they bickered and teased a lot, but also caring like siblings at first. in early 2013, they acted like they were interested with each other. in the end of 2013 till 2014, i think they had their relationship going forward. they couldn't resist touching, and don't forget the hip-touching in ep 208, i couldn't believe my eyes the first i watched it! JK is a guy with hand manner he even tried not to touch JH's thigh while piggybacking her in ep 103 (or with other female guests) but in ep 163 and 208, i started wondering what's happened with the hand manner? ep 227 also left me a big question : the secret hand-holding on the back seat. i mean, if there's nothing between you two, why did you have to hold his hand secretly? you're even not an official loveline,  there's no need to show affection on-screen! 

as the time goes by, their interaction become more "mature". they could control the skinship between them but secretly caring, stand side by side, also communicated without saying anything. the latest episode also made my day, i could see that the other members do care for JH so much and how JH totally believe and depend on JK. she's a female after all, no matter how strong she is, she still need a stronger man to comfort her.

[androkia91]

Hello all, long time SA shipper here. It is great to see the fandom growing with more people and have so many really honest and no-sugarcoated views. I agree with everything that has been said above( do not want to quote it all- lol).

I would also like to point out the reactions/actions of the rest of the cast too. For example, Haha's One Shoe pic on IG. He was promoting his wife's song. LKS and YJS posed for it solo, then we had Gary- JSJ (which I thought was a slightly weird combo) and then BOOM comes the SA pic. Talk about things happening when you least expect them to. And also the way they posed for that pic- so bf/gf like. JK had his had around her waist(part of the reason I thought- was not to hide her nametag). Still very cute and adorable.

I would have actually understood if MC had promoted together, because they are a business couple and promotion is business in a way. Obviously, I don't object, but I want to know the answer to two questions- why? and why at that time? 

i don't remember if it was before JH's halyang merchandise promotion started or just after it had started, but that IG post surely gave me hope as to the fact of SA being real- or atleast much more real than MC(whatever you may like to label it).

AS said before, the reactions of the rest of the cast during the ice pepero was gold. Also in the same episode, in the end when everybody was standing on that small area waiting to hear the resukt, you could see SA standing close and then comes hah'a weird action of catching YJS's eyes and glancing to where SA are. Th gif to that (coz god knows how much that ep was dissected, esp after that MC richard simmons blew up a few days later)

1. Haha has always been vocal on how MC are a business couple( but even more vehemently in that past year)

2. YJS is always quiet whenever SA are interaction. He is the matchmaker MC with KHD- you would think he would try to pair up and irritate JK on every chance- but surprisingly, he keeps quiet when SA are involved (maybe he knows the their relationship is too serious/fragile to be joked with?)

3. LKS is the biggest supporter since he is so close to both JH and JK. i remember he said that if he had a sister, he would set up JK with her and he has always called JH as his sister.

4. JSJ I think does whatever the show requires him to do. His reactions are a bit confusing tho, since I loved his reaction the to the pepero, but all the other times he does ship MC in a way

5. KG obviously treats it as a business relationship. He was quiet the unfeeling character before(I mean he used to say and do stuff which used to make JH very uncomfortable) but then I guess, he and JH have had a discussion where she mentioned things which were okay and which weren't. Glad to see that he is not going to adopt the jealous bf persona with her WGM, though it is too early to tell

 

 

[firstnadya007]

Hi! It has been a while since I visit soompi. At first I didnt create this spartace forum in purpose because it was only for me to try creating new topic. 

And today when i openned couple paradise forum, i was scrolling to see other couple thread yea u know like wgm couples forum and others. And when i was scrolling i saw spartace forum and i saw my name. I was confused for a sec bcs i totally forgot that i ever made this forum kkk.

Im really grateful that i have many friends thay ship spartace too. Let us alltogether keep supporting our spartace always! FIGHTIN!

[Guest athoughtcloud1]

I am happy to see so many discussions and theories about spartace and amazed to find that we think along similar lines. It is nice that everybody is coming out with their views and we are trying to have a rational discussion among shippers.

@assyl4 Totally. The backseat handholding is just crazy. And the more suspicious thing is that JK seems to be so casual about it checking his phone at the same time. They must be so used to it.

@androkia91 YJS' eyes are definitely something. That he never teases JK and JH is so strange (except the indirect teasing in episode 95 and the direct teasing during the 2011 awards). I don't think it is because their relationship is fragile, but because it is a real relationship which needs to remain secret for the sake of the show. If spartace are dating and reveal it in the future, looking forward to what YJS would reveal about them. YJS claims he is the kind of guy who blurts out everything that happened during the day to his wife the moment he reaches home (episode 144). Imagine how many times he might have had to bite his tongue to keep himself from teasing spartace while in front of camera. If spartace ends up together, YJS can always say that it is he who was the man behind JH's first public confession to JK while on FO. LOL

@linzer03 Great observations! I agree with almost everything that you are saying. The only thing is I do not know whether SJH was such a huge fan of Turbo as we think she is, like with how she is a fan of Hyun Bin. The thing with her is that if she likes/admires someone, it is pretty evident on her face. Her fangirling for Hyun Bin can totally be seen in the early episodes. With JK, I am sure she liked Turbo and liked him as a singer. But I think it is their RM interactions which made her a bigger fangirl than she was initially. It is like you work with a singer and his personality is your kind so that you end up becoming a bigger fan. In their initial meetings in FO and RM, I don't see her being specially attentive towards him as you would expect of a big fangirl. In RM, initially, it is his spartaness that she finds so fascinating like with the 10 m diving (episode 4). Like you said, she can't believe her eyes and kind of checks him out from head to toe.

The family outing episodes are interesting for me also for another reason. Sometimes I have heard some RM fans complaining JH doesn't have that much variety sense and all. For me, those FO episodes actually prove that she was chosen to be a permanent member of RM precisely because she had it. JH emerges out of the car with those funny looking glasses and Park Shi Yeon talks about how JH was drying fish in their hair salon to give as gifts for the FO members. You can see JH's quirkiness that sets her apart. Then, when JS tries to trick her by pretending to get a nose bleed (with the fruit juice they were making), she owns him by not only seeing through his trick, but by smearing it further on his face. She sits silent when Daesung goes about acting high and mighty and dissing JK, but once she reaches back to the FO home, duly dishes out on him to JK. And she does it acting so innocent. She is also a smiling assasin as we see at the games later taking down the queen bee Hyori on the pole. She also has no hesitation about performing her 'Hot issue' dance for the members any number of times and seems to enjoy their playful jibes and teasing. Also, while it is definitely embarassing to shout out '....heyo" to JK, she goes along with it pretty happily.

Regarding spartace in the FO episodes, things I noticed were: 1. JH though she may not have met JK that many times before boldly goes to him and complains about Daesung when he was not that easy to approach  2. During the pole game, when JS who already has JH on his team selects JK as well, JK looks pretty happy. JS might be teasing JK about being happy coz he is on the same time as the beautiful JH, but I have always observed that with JS's comments, there is always some element of truth (the 2011 awards JS' comment about 'JH looking so beautiful that JK can't take his eyes off her' seems to be an extension of this FO observation. Definitely meant as a joke,but perahaps had an element of truth as well).

The first time JH comes on RM, you can see JK whispering something to Haha. And yes, JK is also one among the potential lovelines for JH. JH though is more shy when she comes on RM and we have that moment where SJ prompts both of them to look at each other and JH laughs shyly caught offguard. I have heard chinese fans speculating that JK was either in a relationship or out of one at that time coz in episode 3, Haha teases him about having a bad break up in the past and JK seems pretty upset. This is just speculation. It is more probable that JK was just tired of variety lovelines at that point since in FO as well, he was involved in a love triangle, not to forget all the love pentagons he seemed to have in X-man. Also, chinese fans speculate that since Gary was a newbie to the variety scene (fascinating reading Gary's thoughts on how difficult it was for him in the initial days of RM since he felt so awkward) and JK was a variety veteran (same with Haha) who could be used in other roles (since SJ couldn't be the leader in an athletic format and had to give place to JK after a few episodes leading to some hilarious jealous moments from SJ)  and KS and Joong Ki were thought to be too young for JH for a loveline (at least that must have been the perception regarding Joong Ki in the beginning) , the loveline was assigned to Gary (though Joong Ki and Haha at different points were part of love triangles with JH).

JH though had lots of difficulty getting into the loveline and as JS or one of her castmates remarked once, did not seem to have any interest in the male guests as well. I guess since she was unused to a variety loveline before and is more the straightforward personality who finds it difficult to fake her emotions not to mention not the conventionally romantic type who will feel touched with a few cheesy lines, it was a harder job for her. Or that is how I read her in the early episodes. She does get more comfortable with Gary later and the Office olympics episode (episode 32) is one where she seems to play an active role in the loveline dragging Gary along with her, but in the early episodes, she seems at times unwilling to play along. For instance in the Chae Tae Hyun episode, when Gary offers to be her black knight and take her punishment, she refuses and takes it herself. Or in the Kim Jae Dong episode, she is so relieved when Gary fails in getting the jenga piece out for her which would have meant she had to give him some reward. Even in episode 31, when she tries to get her ball out of the bag and Gary puts his hand in attempting some skinship for the show, she snaps at him telling him it is not Monday. It is not that JH doesn't play her part (like she sits on Gary when they are doing the water mission in episode 31), but she gets impatient when she is being forced or too many cheesy lines are used on her.

JH's interest in RM once she gets used to the format is to win (the loveline is something she goes along with since it is her role and it does give her screen time as well). The MC loveline does help her evade the chasing team twice with Gary letting her off both times. I do enjoy MC moments here and there and in rewatching the early episodes, did feel bad for Gary in one episode where he said JH may not want to sit beside him (guess she had the actress aura that Gary talks about even now). I would have liked it more as a variety loveline (not real life since JH and Gary really don't seem each other's types to me) if it had been developed slowly with Gary continuing to court Ji Hyo without forcing her to reciprocate immediately. I mean after that, half the time he would say things like "fool, i know you love me" etc and she would just smile. Most of the times, she just smiles and there is not enough bickering or caring to make it my kind of variety loveline. JH comes into her own when she bickers with the guys, be it JK, Haha or Kwang Soo. With Gary, most of the time, it is he who says something to create a moment and instead of bickering, she just smiles and lets the moment pass. In retrospect, I wish RM team had waited around a bit more for the cast to develop their chemistry with each other before deciding on the main loveline or how they were gonna play it. However, strangely I am happy that spartace did not get a loveline. I feel that JH's character as the ace would have suffered if she was paired up with JK since JK would be expected to help her out every time during games and stuff. It is because their relationship has been developed platonically on the show that it grew organically offcam.

JH definitely has a fascination for Jong Kook initially since he is so strong and capable and really good at games. I don't think it is romantic at this point. Since basically JH and JK are put in two different teams and she is always in the mission team with JS and SJ and it is hard to win their missions because of the truly scary commander, he is also the rival she needs to win against. Looking back while it is hard for spartace fans that spartace have not been that many times in the same team, it has also been a hidden blessing in that some of the best of spartace have come out when they have been in opposite teams. If there was no Commander, there would have been no Ace. It is because he is so formidable as an opponent that JH also rises above the circumstances many a time and ends up as the saviour for her team. Like in episode 14 where JH saves her team by holding onto JK's thigh and he loses his walkie talkie and shoe to her while running away. Spartace was also so cute. JH carries around that shoe everywhere in that episode till she gives it back to him after the game. As he sits on the stairs defeated, she approaches him with the shoe and sits nearby waiting for him to put it on. Episode 15 heartbeat raising game is also very interesting. Joong Ki kisses her on the cheek, Gary holds her hands while reciiting, Tony Ahn sings holding her hand and publicly proposes to her. JK, on the other hand, just sings a few lines without even looking at her or attempting any sort of skinship. He also doesn't say any romantic lines to her. But still her heartbeat rises in anticipation when he is about to sing. And he scores much higher than many of them with 115 where Joong Ki's was 117 and Gary's much less (if i remember right).  Besides, when he says he is going to act like a friend, JH's excited words "Friend?" show how much she wanted him to be her friend. Oh and both Jae Suk and Kwang Soo look so interested (their eyes are warm) watching JK singing to JH. I believe that looking at the expressions of the other cast mates, you can see whom they thought really had a chance with JH.

There are also awkward moments for JK like in the case of the Jenga test in episode 11 when JH having to take out the jenga piece in a tight situation longs for a Kim Jong kook card used in the previous episode (if you have the card, KJK will do it for you). Gary then asks why she is asking for a KJK card when he is there for her and KJK looks awkward caught in between.

My reading of JH is that while she has some ace moments till episode 20 (JK must have been quite impressed by her) and seems to get along well with everybody else, she is still not that close with JK. She has always been the ace, but in episode 24, she also showcases her witty side with her sharp retorts to JK during the heart beat raising game and playing other tricks on Jae Suk. I believe that Lizzy's entry into the show in episode 13 has something to do with JH playing a more active role later. Unlike JH who is not the cutesy type, Lizzy has lots of aegyo and has a naivete that makes her say sometimes the wrong but entertaining things (like saying she wants to do an MBC program 'WGM' on an SBS show). In contrast, JH seems to be holding herself back a bit more and she is more focused on action than saying witty things. JH and JK though colleagues are still not that close. They do have cute interactions like the time JK praises JH's wisdom in choosing JS's face instead of the cards with JS' picture on them. JK copying Gary's 'mmm' sound prompting JH to pick the thief card in episode 14 is also another such moment. However, when they sit down after getting out from the thief game in episode 14, she doesn't sit next to JK, but leaves a chair in between them. Later when Jae Suk gets out, he tries to come and sit on that empty chair between them perhaps indicating that he noticed it and wanted to give her company. So there is still a lot of shyness between them.

Many RM fans say JK treats JH like a sister. But chinese fans have pointed out that there is a huge contrast in the way JK treats Lizzy and JH in the early episodes. With Lizzy since she is so young and his junior, JK gets close quickly and in episode 18 where he chooses her to be his partner, once they leave the ship, he waits for her to come and puts his arm around her. Lizzy is also not the shy type and since JK is a well-respected senior, doesn't take time to get close to him. That seems more like the brother-sister relationship since there is no awkwardness regarding getting close with each other. In contrast, JK definitely sees JH as a woman and that too an attractive woman (he chooses JH based on appearance in episode 18 in the ship and is quite shy about calling out her name). So, though they interact here and there, there is still awkwardness and he, being the shy type, doesn't seem to do anything special to break the ice. It is evident though that it is JK's teasing that means more to JH than those of others. Thus, in episode 20 when JH is proved as lying about her dislike towards Haha, Haha makes many teasing remarks about JH liking him. But it is when JK speaks up and says something along the same lines that JH gets provoked and gets out of her chair asking him to do the test instead. But they don't get to interact beyond such moments since they are never put in the same team till episode 21. Jae Suk and Suk Jin stay on in one team throughout, but Haha, Joong Ki, Kwang Soo and Gary all switch between JK's and JS's teams. Only JH is destined to never be on JK's team and when Lizzy comes along, Lizzy starts becoming a permanent part of JK's team as the girl member. And I believe not being able to find her equation with JK is part of the reason why JH is holding back. JH gets to interact a lot with JS and SJ since they are on the same team. She knows Joong Ki and Kwang Soo from before and have plenty of interaction with both. Haha since he is the naughty type has plenty of bickering moments with her and they seem to be pretty comfortable around each other (though JH acts like she can't stand him). With Gary, because of the MC thing, she again gets to interact and find her equation. But JK continues to remain the final frontier and seeing Lizzy getting on so close with JK, she must have thought that it was not like he was shy with all women. Episode 20 where JH publicly asks to be put on JK's team is for me thus a conscious intervention. Even looking at things from a non-romantic POV (I also believe there isn't anything romantic at that point between JK and JH), one can see that JS and JK as the team leaders are the two most important people on the show. For the members to find their footing and chemistry in the show, it is essential that they bond with both of them. JH not being able to get that close to JK, in that way, does hold her back from being herself on the show.

In episode 21 in the beginning when they are doing the team selection and JK's team is being selected, JH looks crushed when she is not put in their team. Thankfully, towards the end, they get to be in the same team in the nametag ripping game and the strongest couple is born. From episode 22, I feel JH becomes more comfortable around JK and in episode 24, she surprises everyone with her wit and repartee, much of it targetted at JK. It is Lizzy who should be the one attacking JK, but JH gives all the heavy blows and JK seems to be amused. JK says how even JH's expressions are a talent or something like that and that shows he is also trying to get close to her. When the mother's team is asked to choose their son, it is JH who immediately says "Jongkookie" answering for the whole team and also showing her wit since as the mother, she can call him that. Looking back, episode 24 is the one where JH really becomes the naughty JH we have come to love her for.

[WanZ]

Hi there @firstnadya007

A big thank you for creating the thread! Wow... to think that it has grown into 500+ pages since you've created it... just like a tree left alone to grow and voila, now it's all big and green. It just goes to show that SA really does has it's own special allures

 

  

Cr as tagged

 I'd love to write about this but well... seeing is believing.

 

[aschae]

Wow! The discussion on here has been awesome lately, and I've really enjoyed reading everyone's thoughts and theories. I agree with a lot of what has been said. Considering, too, that there are several of us who have the same thoughts on things (such as timelines and whatnot) makes me feel even more confident that we're on the right track. But no jinxes or anything.

@athoughtcloud1 Don't forget that JH is also the only one who can shut down JK's nagging. JS mentioned this a few times, and you can see it happen in 176. I'd even say the coffee house game from 108 is another spot where JH successfully gets him to stop. I'm sure there are more, but these are the two that come to mind at the moment. HaHa and LKS, who are his closest friends, can't get him to stop, and JS, whom he's known for a while, really can't get him to stop. But the moment JH speaks up? Apologies and silence. 

And, just a general comment about the whole "Spartacers are making up rumors" kerfuffle...sure, to outsiders, we appear like just another crazy set of fans, ones who are obsessed with pairing JH up with another guy. But here's the thing: how many of us came to this ship because of things we saw? I can't speak for others, but that's how I ended up here. Sure, there's things I make assumptions about and spend time analyzing and theorizing. But it all started with observations that others shared on here. And I think that makes us different than other ships.

...then again, if that's the image (crazy fans just creating more rumors) other ships/fans and social media want to have of us, and they write us off for it, perhaps I can be okay with it. I'd much rather have us continue to fly under the radar and not draw attention to ourselves...to keep it respectful and quiet, not just for us as people (because who likes getting bashed and embarrassed online?), but most importantly for JK and JH.

 

Edited February 14, 2016 by aschae
verbage

[linzer03]

@athoughtcloud1 Crush is probably a stronger word than I want. I think SJH has an interest in KJK (more than she had in the other members) in the early episodes, which possibly stems from her being a Turbo fan. But she’s there to work. If I remember correctly, her acting career wasn’t too great in 2010, so she needed Running Man as a boost. I doubt she would be chasing after her male cast mates even if she had a crush on one of them. I do think she was a Turbo fan. While, yes, in later episodes her screaming whenever KJK sings may come from her becoming closer to him, in ep 28 she moves around LKS to see KJK dance Black Cat (includes screaming and cheering). And in ep 15, her heartbeat rises in anticipation of KJK singing to her. I think those episodes are too early (and therefore their relationship not close) for her to cheer for him like that because she likes KJK as a person. The LKS and YJS anticipation of KJK’s train scene could just be because KJK used to be the king of love lines.

 

I totally agree about the FO episodes showing SJH’s variety sense. I think the focus on SJH not being good for variety comes from her lack of screen time in recent eps. I also don’t think there’s much spartace in FO (despite what some fans say) - my connection between YJS-SJH in FO and YJS-SJH in RM are really just speculation on trying to understand why YJS would have her shout out “I l_ve you” to KJK while he’s filming another love line. I don’t take KJK’s happy selection during the pole game too seriously since they act like that for all female guests. I don’t take their reactions on RM serious either, though even then, KJK is even less excited then the other RM members usually. Which would make sense if he was dating SJH. Even though YJS, HH, and JSJ are all married, their wives aren’t on set. There’s a huge difference between when your partner is at home and when they’re on set with you, watching. Which reminds me of the pepero game in ep 198, where SJH picks KJK and HYS to compete in a pepero game against her and PSJ. Once again, all the other RM cast member get excited about spartace and a pepero game. It could be because KJK’s character is extremely shy around women, and that’s also why SJH picked him. But then when the pairs are doing the pepero games, you see KJK standing directly behind and between the SJH and PSJ pair and you see SJH standing directly behind and between the KJK and HYS. One explanation is that they’re competitive and focused, but you also see KJK change spots with HYS so he’s not facing SJH. The reason he gives is that one spot might be better than the other. Hmm… Obviously, SJH and KJK are able to laugh about the situation, but I see it more as SJH picking KJK because she thinks he won’t be able to do it in front of her or because she wants to show him that it’s not a big deal. I think, if they started dating mid-2013, that would be the first time they did a pepero game in front of either other.

 

@androkia91 I actually try not place a huge amount of stock in the handholding scene of ep 227, only because SJH is pretty comfortable holding hands with most of the RM cast. She could have simply been cold getting in the van and used KJK for warmth, not bothering to move her hand. Than being said, she didn’t use the person to her left as well.

 

The One Shoe Pic was really interesting because, while the other pics seemed to be focused on the shoe, in KJK and SJH’s pic, the shoe seemed an afterthought. I didn’t even notice the existence of the shoe at first. It seems more like HH or whoever took the photo wanted to get a pic of KJK and SJH together for the promo and then had to figure out how to fit a shoe into the picture.

 

Edited February 14, 2016 by linzer03

[Guest athoughtcloud1]

@linzer03 JH though likes singers in general and as a host of Inkigayo must have interacted with singers and idols for a long time on a regular basis. She had also worked with Tony Ahn before and seemed as or more moved by Ahn's serenade in episode 15. So, I guess she generally is a fan of singers and not just of KJK. I am sure almost all of the RM members are fans of Turbo including Ji Hyo because they were quite popular during their time. That said, kind of believe her interest in KJK was not primarily because of her being a huge Turbo fan girl. I think her becoming such a screaming fangirl is after she gets to know him a bit more. In the early episodes (like when he does the hiphop move involving the door), she doesn't seem to react as big as she does later. But we cannot say what was in her heart for sure. I also don't think it is a crush at this point, just a genuine interest to know the other person more.

Yup, noticed how JK changes his position during the pepero game so that he wouldn't have to face JH. And his comment 'why are you all staring at me" also seemed to be mainly directed at her.

@aschae No wonder Jae Suk calls her as the third generation of women who can control JK. And the funny thing is he rarely snaps at her (the only time I can think of was in episode 144 where JH complains JK's team is given too much time to get their lines right and he then snaps at her to do an english tongue twister in one minute) and instead takes two steps back. Totally agree with you regarding spartace shippers. I mean many of the fans here even doubt whether they are dating though they feel there is a genuine attraction between them. I usually have seen shippers who connect each and everything with their ship. So this is a welcome change. We all have our observations and some of us might feel one moment is important while others may feel it may not be. That shows we are all reaching our conclusions after giving it plenty of thought. Let us stay under the radar for the moment. I really don't want my biases to feel burdened by aggressive shipping especially when they are trying to stay under the radar.

[niniisa]

Woow @athoughtcloud1 I totally agree with you about your analysis of SA from the ealier episodes. It's kind of funny because since a few days ago until yesterday, I enjoyed myself watching again RM episodes since the begining until ep 21 and you said eveything I was thinking of.

Myself too, I think that JHJK relationship was just a co-workers relationship at the begining: they weren't close yet but that's the reason why SA are so interesting and why SA shippers exist. It's because we have seen the evolution of their relationship from the begining till now that we have a reason to doubt them and think they are something more than just co-workers or friends (we aren't all delusional fans).

It's from mid-2013 or end-2013 that JH and her ex-boyfiend broke up and that's also then that JHJK became much closer and I also think it's thanks to RM Race Start concerts that brought them to get closer than usual. It's also at specific time that many SA shippers appeared (even if I'm not one of them because I discovered SA only last year but thanks to this, I was able to watch all RM episodes knowing that JH broke up with the CEO in 2013)

I'm really happy to see many SA shippers and silent lurkers as me are begining to share their opinion with everyone. I was kinda hesitant to share my opinion in my first post from last week because I was a little afraid that some people didn't accept my point of view but now I'm really glad that after this, you are all giving your opinion even if we don't share all the same view. People here don't try to force people with their views on SA but all your analysis allow us to be more open-minded and thus avoid us to only see from one POV.

[linzer03]

Don't know if y'all have seen this yet, but at the Winsor House fanmeet, SJH was asked what she thought the sexiest part of a man was, and two girls had to guess her answer. SJH answered eyes and muscles, saying she couldn't choose between the two. Interesting since in 2012 she said during an interview that she liked men with a bit of a tummy (who looked like her father). So something has changed since 2012...

 

[Guest athoughtcloud1]

@linzer03 The eyes should have been smaller on the pic, the muscles seem kind of right though. Yes, if JH was not really keen on muscles initially, what brought about the turn around?  But yeah, JH is the type who always chooses both when she can't decide between one and the other.

Even then, I don't think for many female celebs, muscles are that important. And for JH who loved a little tummy on her man and has dated someone who has not been the six packs type, it should have been pretty easy to choose the eyes.

@niniisa Yeah, open-mindedness and sanity are important while shipping and that is why it is good to have people with different POVs. Are there any special moments you noticed till episode 21 since you have recently re-watched them? I also believe there has been a growth in their relationship through the years and that is what makes it so fascinating. I think anybody who watches RM from the early episodes without any pre-conceived notions will actually notice something or the other between them. It is because people already think there can be nothing between them since they are like siblings that they miss out on so many moments. Also, something I have noticed in RM written recaps is that many times JK's words to JH are either not reported or summarized as 'her castmates tease her' etc and so many readers don't notice them as well. That is why the spartace shippers often get the reputation of making a mountain out of a mole hill when they point out something and the general reaction is like 'woah. where is this coming from?"

[niniisa]

1 hour ago, athoughtcloud1 said:

@niniisa Yeah, open-mindedness and sanity are important while shipping and that is why it is good to have people with different POVs. Are there any special moments you noticed till episode 21 since you have recently re-watched them? 

Also, something I have noticed in RM written recaps is that many times JK's words to JH are either not reported or summarized as 'her castmates tease her' etc and so many readers don't notice them as well. That is why the spartace shippers often get the reputation of making a mountain out of a mole hill when they point out something and the general reaction is like 'woah. where is this coming from?"

 

 @athoughtcloud1 Well, for now, I think you've already said what I wanted to say but if I notice something special of course I will share it. I will just add some things to what you've already said.

 

Nothing really important but I find really cute the fact that JK and JS called JH by her real name at the begining of the show (ep 13 JK called her Seung Im) And not only for JK, but it's interesting to see all the members changing the way they talk to each other from formal speaking to informal. It was really weird to see them calling each other Ji Hyo-ssi, Jong Kook-ssi, etc. We can clearly see not only JK or JH but all the members were just colleagues and not yet a family but now they are as a family, I think they became too cautious of the other and to what they say.

Even though RM is a reality show, it's still really easy for the show to manipulate people's mind by just putting captions or effects as a blushing effect. For example, when they want to tease JK and imply the fact that he's feeling shy around a girl guest, they just had to add a blushing effect to make us think so; but most of the time, I think JK is more embarrassed and reluctant instead of interested and shy around the girl guest.

JK is still easier to read than JH because JH's expression and silence can be interpreted in different ways and can be easily mislead (because of that some MC hard-fans don't believe us and allow themselves to insult us).

When I watch the early ep, sometimes JH's smile and silence/or words to Jong Ki or Gary's words can mislead people to think she is really interested and touched. However, thanks to ep 15 we can see that JH's heart don't match with her words or facial expressions:

For exemple, when Jong Ki said he will wait in front of her house, if we only look at her expression, we can easily think that she was first shocked then happy+embarrassed. However, her heart beat shows a rapid decrease. In this kind of situation, if it wasn't a heartbeat game, the production would just have to put a caption or effects to make us think that JH was touched but it obviously wouldn't reflect JH's real feeling as we can clearly see it here.

Then, for Gary, when he held her hand and rap for her, she seems to be really touched (she had the same expression when they have to interact together for MC fans)

BUT here is the result:

Obviously, her expressions+words don't match with her heart rate. Well, it's maybe because she said in later eps that she hates when someone sing for her and put her name in the lyrics... but it also shows that she don't feel anything for Gary since the begining. Even though they were forced to have more interaction because of the MC title, JH never become closer to him as with JK or KS over all these years.

In this ep, JH said she hates the bad-boy type of man. Moreover, here's another thing JH said in another show filmed way before RM (in 2009 I think)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1bbwmy_eng-sub-ya-shim-man-man-jihyo-cut-part-1_shortfilms

 

[laubi]

wow a lot of interesting posts! It's so comforting to see similar POV about spartace. I don't like shipping usually and shippers even less, because often I find it overdone and like to be rational, but here I can find a lot of reasoning, I like it so much (I seem such a kiss-a**).
When I started to watch running man, I thought JH and KS were similar around JK, to me both tried really hard to get close to him. I don't think JH liked him in a romantic way, the thought only crossed my mind in the early episodes, but after that I brushed that aside, It was around episode 70-90 I seriously began to see her attracted by him, and Jk more interested in her. I dont' know the specific episode or moment because it was more like put together little pieces to form a big picture, at the time I didn't know she was dating someone else, I didn't know there were shippers, I only watched the show.

Episode 95 is the turning point for me, I was sure there was something (undefinable, but something) between them and coincidentally I found out I wasn't alone (I'm not referring to Haha lol), in the comments about the episode there were spartacers. From then on there were so much moments on and off camera that I can't not agree with @linzer03 they are dating or are just close friends.

From my point of view and experience, if you really like/love somebody you can't hold your feelings for that long, there aren't so many options or you try to fullfill your love or you decide to move on, so to be clear: if I think JK and JH like each other (and I do), I can't believe they are waiting for more favorable moment to date, we are talking about a 35 years old woman and a 40 years old man, it's not about marriage age, but maturity in relationships. 
I always think I can be wrong, so I like to analyze the possibility they are just close friends: they are not a monk and a nun, so I presume in the past 3-4 years they dated someone, I tried hard to put myself in their potential partners's shoes and I can't imagine someone ok with their unnecessary and plentiful skinship. It's ok if you hug your friend or if you hold her/his hand, it's okay if you need to be close to him/her because you feel more at ease, I'll not make a fuss about it, I'm even used to kiss my friends on the cheeks. But if you act like that only with a specific person and repeatedly, I'll probably break your legs. This is more obvious with JH, beacause I don't know how JK is with girl friends, but I can see how she acts with other 5 men, all close to her, who more who less, and there is a profound difference, she can hug and hold hands with them, but not so often, not in the same way, it's a fact not an assumption,there are dozens of video about it. Anyway I can be too biased, so I'll always keep in mind I don't see everything and I don't know them in person.
I can accept to be wrong, but I can't put up with the brother/sister thing anymore, call them friends (I'm speaking to other fans), it's not like they are related by blood and to be honest if a brother and a sister like to lay down holding hands, they could have serious issues  

[linzer03]

@laubi I think I said a similar thing in a earlier post, about how if I were dating one of them, I wouldn't be comfortable with their relationship. I have a hard time understanding people who call them "bro and sis" because I have older brothers, and I can promise you our relationship is nothing like that lol. However, if there is something romantic going on between them, I feel like KJK, who is known for his loyalty, wouldn't date someone when he knows he has feelings for SJH, and I can't imagine how he wouldn't be aware of his feelings for SJH at this point. I mean, from all the times he's sung the chorus of Lovable to her at fan meets, you'd think he would ask himself "Why am I doing this?" and figure it out. One can only be in denial for so long.  

I was actually wondering if anyone had any theories as to exactly when spartace, if they are, started dating. I think we would see something different in how they interact if they acknowledged feeling something for each other, but I can never really settle on an exact episode and say, "Yes, this is where things changed."

[laubi]

That episode it's like the final piece of a puzzle for me, they were on their own world, it happened before in episode 78, but in episode 95 something was different, maybe the way they isolated themselves from the rest or the way JK helped her, I don't know what it was, it's obviously only an impression, and it could be for the game, I know JH want to win so badly and JK doesn't betray usually if it's not required, but it wasn't really necessary for JK to let her win, she won a lot of time, and even if he gave his word to help her, he didn't need to spend all that time alone with her. I randomly thought "ah... he like her so much that want to see her happy", It was like an enIightenment. I started to connect all the "awkward" moments, I was pretty sure JH liked him, she was always seeking attention from him, but I wasn't sure about him. 
The other episode was 103, it was just a confirmation of my theories (they will remain theories, until proven otherwise). Until today even if I try I can't find a rational explanation for JK shyly kneeling down with a ring.
You probably did wrote about how it'll be uncomfortable for the partners, I read something, but I didn't remember it was you
I agree with you about JK, he'll not date if he has feelings for somebody else, usually only a jer* will do it, and I don't think he is  It was only an hypothetical scenario, if they are not dating, if they are only friends, then they will date somebody, I don't believe in Korea celebrities or normal people are chaste and pure like they show in dramas.

 

[aschae]

@linzer03 I've found myself wondering the same thing, if there is an exact episode where we can mark where their relationship changes. Even though I've watched a bunch of episodes out of order, I'm finally working on watching each one in order, and just finished watching 96 (though, I didn't re-watch 95, unfortunately). Based on article by kdramastars, it appears that JH was with her CEO boyfriend at the time ep 95 was filmed, which sheds an interesting light on SA interactions, and makes the liger story even more curious. I don't disagree with there being *something* between them prior to this, and even long after. Likewise, I don't have a rational theory yet as to an explanation behind any of their interactions during this time frame, but give me a few hours and I might come up with something .

Going with the theory of a fall of 2013 hookup, 163 was the first episode filmed in September of that year. However, one thing that sticks out for me is their interactions at the Singapore fm on October 18 and 19 of 2013, be it the autograph session, the interview with ONETV, or the fanmeet itself.

Edited February 15, 2016 by aschae
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[linzer03]

But SJH was in a relationship during eps 95 and 103. So while I think KJK may have realized he had feelings for her during that time, I don't think it would have been mutual. We know that SJH and the CEO broke up in 2013 (since that was released in an official statement), but we don't know exactly when. There were a few MC moments in earlier episodes (like 113 where they were the divorced couple and onward) but MC kicked up again in full force around the early summer of 2013 (notably ep 147 where they're on a team with JSJ and Gary keeps asking for permission to be with SJH). So I would assume the break up occurred in the early half of 2013. There's usually a break between breaking up and dating someone else. Even if the break up is mutually, it's not easy. But by ep 155, KJK is giving SJH back-hugs and ep 160 has the helicopter ride where she holds his hand and falls asleep on his shoulder. I always wondered if SJH's interest in KJK started before she ended things with the CEO, simply because of her actions towards him (ep 117 massaging his leg after piggyback and putting her arm around him after he loses) and because it seems like they get close pretty quickly after the break up.

Ep 103 is so strange because SJH is in a relationship at the time. Like why would you kneel down and give nametag (I'm pretty sure he knelt down for the nametag, not the ring - correct me if I'm wrong) to someone who's in a relationship? On what planet is that a good idea? And look at JSJ's face when KJK kneels.

I totally agree on everything being theories until proven otherwise. It's all just speculation based on what we see and hear. We probably won't ever know most of the answers (like if there was any feelings between them during SJH's relationship or what went on in the early episodes). Even if they revealed themselves to be in a relationship, I doubt they'd tell all the details. 

@aschae The fan meet is Singapore is the one where, during introductions, SJH only claps for KJK, right? (I always find that hilarious for some reason.) He also sort of holds her hand briefly during an interview when she mistakenly answers a question. Then do you think they'd be dating by then? I would think they'd have to be reasonably comfortable with each other for KJK to instinctively grab her hand when she makes a mistake.

You also have to wonder if there are stages to their dating (this is all under the assumption that our 2013 theory is correct). Like when do the other RM members find out? Would they tell them right away? Or is there an episode where the way the other RM members treat their interactions a little differently? Especially Gary. How weird would it be to have to flirt with your good friend’s girlfriend in front of him? Obviously, if they are actually dating, the three of them have figured out how to deal with it, but it must have been weird for a little while. I always thought ep 154 with the “I want you, KG” was interesting. Maybe it was scripted by the staff or maybe KG came up with it on his own. But I can’t believe KG would have SJH do that if he knew she was dating KJK. So either they weren’t dating yet or the staff set it up. Speaking of the staff, I would think that KJK and SJH would have to tell them at some point – it does have a pretty big impact on the show – or the staff would have noticed – they do film the two for ten hours at least once a week. And would that change how the staff teams up spartace or how they edit them. Do we see a shift in that?

[laubi]

yes, probably the nametag, I wrote ring, but I wasn't putting any other meaning on it, it's Jk kneeling down itself unreasonable.
The fact JH was dating exactly the same time I noticed a development in their relationship, shocked me when I read the news, I found out only after a while (it took a lot of time to read all the old posts lol), I use to think they were unaware of their feelings at the time, only once I thought something else, but it was more like a fanfiction (no offense if someone here like or write fanfictions, they are not my cup of tea), you know those wild thoughts when you try to analyze something and think of all possible scenario, I couldn't follow that idea.

[tee2015]

I am a newbie when it comes to Spartace shipping and my observation skills are lacking so I pretty much rely on the good analytical eyes and skills of the people in IG and forums. I am not 100% sure that they are dating but there are definitely moments that makes me wonder what the state of their relationship is. One of my favorite moment is in ep 205 wherein Haha was looking at her while almost everyone was surrounding JK. Technically there is no SA interaction but Haha's face is so telling.

Also, I am not even sure if Haha just loves to tease the fans or he is really hinting something but I remembered one time where he commented a winky face in one of Spartace IG post. 

 

Edited February 15, 2016 by tee2015

[mary-ann]

I don't think they are dating, I just think there was/is an attraction and ease they have with eachother. but i'm afraid all the media attention they are getting lately might ruin all these sweet moments and closeness in the future, because they might be trying to stop further rumours. Song Ji Hyo seems to distance herself from JK lately and is always around kwangso