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cherkell

[Drama 2013/2014] ♚ Empress Ki (기황후) ♚ [EVENT: re-watch]

EK Poll: Love, hate and shipping  

9 members have voted

  1. 1. So far (up until ep 20) the characters I dislike/hate the most are (choose 2):

    • Yeom - cockroach #1
    • El Temür - cockroach #2
    • Tanashiri
    • Tangqishi
    • Talahai
      0
    • Empress Dowager
      0
    • Toghon / Ta-Hwan
      0
    • Bagan
      0
    • Tal Tal
      0
    • Wang Yoo
  2. 2. Right now, I ship Nyang with:

    • Wang Yoo
    • Toghon / Ta-Hwan
    • Tal Tal
    • Tangqishi
      0
    • Someone else
  3. 3. By ep 20, I believe that Nyang loves:


  • Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.
  • Poll closes on 10/02/2020 at 01:00 PM

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Alrighty, time to post some thoughts about ep 13-16.

I'm on a roll, and I had to stop myself from binge watching further.... hahah :D

 

In any case:

  • Ep 13 started out with Nyang telling oppa "I will do nothing for you" with contempt in her eyes. I have a feeling she's gonna eat up her words later.
  • The re-examination scene was interesting, even though I really wanna know how they feel the slippery pulse now :D
    Can we all be proud of Nyang for a moment? She saved the concubine and the baby (at least for now)? What a twist! Well done! And she was promoted too! Not sure she was too happy about her position because now she has to spend even more time with oppa - lol

46f4dc_f2f7cf714aa9434f9d8431fa41fc6f41.

  • Tangqishi showed once more how perceptive he was, but gosh, I was happy to see his evil sister Danashiri have to grovel and beg. Serves you right!!!!
    Can we have more scenes like this please? :joy:
  • Nyang's feverish and drunk dreams are weird. And why does oppa always have to hear her call out Wang Yoo's name.... :(
    She displays almost like an obsession over him, no? She has this fix idea that she will serve him forever, but life is not like that. Things change, people change, situations change....
  • Oppa is so volatile....He can be sweet and caring to Nyang, in the next second he's bossing her around, in the third second he's being mean to her.
    Sigh
    He really would need some therapy to learn how to self-soothe, no?
  • The soccer game was so funny! :D All the ladies love Wang Yoo - even Danashiri. I can see how this would affect oppa's self-esteem.
  • 46f4dc_ff377f251b6b474cb5dd6979e5e834bd.
  • I love oppa's eunuch. They have such an awesome chemistry! So funny. :D
  • I really felt quite sorry for oppa in ep 16. It really showed how alone he is in the world. He had no one there to console him after the unbelievably degrading scene El Temür put him through. So I was glad to see Nyang despite some hesitation at first, decided to stay with him.
    I think she finally realized that they are not so different from each other. Both lost their fathers due to evil people, and both were forced to grow up in unfavorable conditions.

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Yeah, you see that Wang Yoo? You told her to stay away from you - this is what you get! 

 

What I learned from these episodes is that "granting someone her imperial favors" is not as innocent as it sounds... :joy:

 

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@partyon  I hear you. I had some time and watched them during the weekend as I did not go out Saturday. But then I knew I would forget so I had to type it up.

 

Great pics and post!

 

Empress Ki 13-16

 

-Yes, Nyang learns Wang Yoo is alive and back though Togon tried to drag it out for her to not know. He wanted to see her but was disappointed not to see her. The Queen totally on the WY crush hearing a passionate man like an animal. She is wanting attention and hearing that she is intrigued. Seeing her dress up and force her way to private audience with Empress Dowager, Togon and Wang Yoo was funny. Then her excited about WY vs Togon and cheering for WY. She drank the WY juice and even tried to get an apology for his rudeness to her. But he said she owed one for slapping him.lol. His playing the instrument to reciting a poem Togon deemed boring not both Empress and Queen agreed was well done. Togon have a hissy fit of jealousy was funny.

 

-Seeing Lady Pak hid her pregnancy when accused she was lying was strike of genius. Now officially pregnant and no longer lady in waiting all is left to birth a son. Still to get to that point was a doozy. Glad the laurel extract by YH was minor. Then having the Eunuch take out the licorice to prevent a natural miscarriage. TQ was upset when his sis and their plans failed and spreading the fake pregnancy ruse rumors.

 

Queen kneeling in the rain for forgiveness. Wow amazed she didn’t get really sick. Foiled by Nyang and head eunuch who helped Lady Pak.

 

-WY letting General Batalou go was smart. Then when General Banyan and Wang Yoo got awards was awesome. Give props to El Tumur he respects WY but keeps him at distance . Tangqisi maybe ruthless but none of his dads political acumen but strong in combat and detective /sleuthing skills.

 

-Tangqisi after hearing from Nyang she will never go to as he killed her mom. He realizes he got it bad. He told her only you should cry over me (oh brother.) Then reminds her his power over her life, I can kill you anytime but choose not to.

 

-WY teasing El Tumur looking for the Blood Vow of Togon’s dad was poisoned not dying through illness was shock for Togon after finding from Empress Dowager. From using blood appeal (SN smart to have Lord Zhang slip on ice to make the switch). Then the disappearing ink and nonsmudging ink proved successful 

 

-WY and SN romance vibes now was weird. He not really but from SN ok. When he told her to not help their cause now he doesn’t want to endanger SN. She of course still does due to Eunuch Bang. Love he is BFF with the head Eunuch. When WY found out she helped them he yelled at her to leave and he would never see her again. To give the cold shoulder killed him but he feels that will keep SN safe. Cause being caught in the crossfire the emperor or him cannot save once caught.

 

Wang Ko got nada from Yuan and surprisingly tells WY the truth of some matters. But WY gives all his money to the Koryo village with the plague. Just desserts evil Byung Soo got it, just don’t happy as he is pure evil.

 

Togon getting Nyang drunk and teasing her with her memory black out later about her actions . Him saying she has to be within three steps of him. Gosh annoying. Reading aloud to him nightly too. But trying to annoy WY having her clean his ears in front of him. Sigh. Childish and always wanting her attention . The Eunuch knows only Nyang is tolerated by Togon - to comfort him (after El Tumur upsets him), put ointment on Togon etc.

 

El Tumur is one guy interesting mix ambition , control and assimilation with the throne and stating he got three men on the stage as his puppets sigh.

 

The initial soccer practice Togon wasn’t good and SN showed off her skills. So to see them even up the score tie before the crucial tie breaker point both have SN in the brain. Togon adds SN off limits. Gosh both are fiery passionate about her.

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@Nodame Great thoughts! :kiss_wink:


You know Danashiri is so spoiled. Everything she does she blames on others. "It's his fault that I am doing this. He made me like this..."

Sounds like a narcissist to me....

 

I also forgot to say that ep 14 had the wildest rock music so far. :joy:  When Wang Yoo was breaking into the Pavilion of Women, this rock song comes on.

I lost it. :joy:

 

Dying Laughing GIF by memecandy

 

EDIT: not literally of course :joy:

 

Also, this scene..... Just sayin'

46f4dc_c292dda0d2014ee98b57f21630cdcf8c.

 

46f4dc_1af94c45937e4f2a83239c39a5f308b6.

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Thanks  @partyonTrue the Emperor smelling her handkerchief was a bit creepy not going to lie especially she is not aware of it. UGGGGH.  I Hear you on Danashiri 100%. She is full of it. It is that ego/pride that keeps her going.

 

I TOO was tempted to go on as well. I had to type my thoughts or I would forget. LOL. Plus at home I have no laptop so typing on my cell is painful. LOL.

 

Looking forward to everyone else's in the rewatch write ups too.

 

 

 

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even my youtube know that I´m watching empress KI. they are showing fan made videos of empress KI on my recommended list. 

 

off to watch ep 16 and the to bed. I´m going to write my thought tomorrow. 

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Alright Chingus, so I am done with 13-16 and here is are my thoughts along with some summary of those episodes. It is a long post, I am too lazy to write for each episodes differently or for two episodes separately, so I sit and write everything in one go and together. 

 

EDIT: But I did divide the post into two separate as this one already was very long (not that it is not long right now though).

 

So episode 12 had finished with a major cliffhanger, must have been hard for many to not go for the 13th episode immediately, in my case it was sleep which had the higher hand and once you stop the momentum, then it becomes easier to wait and watch the next episode.

 

Episode 13 starts with Lady Park getting examined in front of everyone, El Temur, Danashiri and co. being very much positive of their plan being a success, while Dowager worried about her political loss to El Temur, which could lead her in losing her political status and ending in temple as nun. But did we really think it would go their way? :rubchin:.

 

I mean we had Nyang acting as double agent, what else could go wrong for them, it was already hinted that Nyang and the chief of court maids, had doubts about the "bully court lady" and well they were quite successful in fooling everyone. 

 

Result? Public humiliation for them. The situation completely overturned and now the Dowager Queen had upper hand. She openly accuses the Queen and holds her accountable for everything. To which El Temur agrees and tells that her punishment should be traditional groveling. This is exactly what I like about El Temur. This guy knows exactly when to take one step back. Does punish his own daughter, despite being the true power behind the throne, he could actually go on and argue about the involvement of queen in all incidents and other stuff, but decided to not to take the risk and to me it also looked like his way of teaching Danashiri that she has to pay for the consequences of her actions, and so must be more careful in future with her plans.

 

Anyway, we see Danashiri performing the traditional groveling, Empress Dowager not letting Toghon Temur stop her doing it before she thinks it right to, and well, something happens, which always happens in such scenes. Yes, the rain, it starts down pouring which adds to misery of Danashiri. Well madam, you had it coming with all your evil plans. Finally Dowager Empress agrees to let Danashiri leave in exchange of making Lady Park a royal consort, to which I don't really he agrees initially or not, because we don't see Danashiri leaving, not until she fainting and getting carried back to her room, and Lady Park is not an imperial consort. 

 

On the other side in battlefield, Bayan and co. are freed by Wang Yoo who fools them by saying that he killed Batolu and that the war is won by them. Real Batolu is left free, having made an alliance with Wang Yoo to control the Silk Route and also hinting towards them meeting again. 

 

Back in palace Nyang now serves in the palace, plus she has a plot armor in the name of "letter from queen", which had prevented Tangqishi hurting her and also questioning himself whether he was falling for her or not. Anyway, he plans to kill her, Emperor's men bring down the guy who supposed to seemingly kill her, and take her to Emperor. Toghon Temur again very shamelessly burns Nyang's permission to leave the palace granted by the Queen. Now I do understand he did for her, but that was harsh. Sir, you can't do these things and expect to suddenly fall for you (not gonna happen again, she already fell in love suddenly with Wang Yoo). Toghon Temur thinking Danashiri being behind all this storms in her room and scolds her all he wants.

 

Now that scene actually makes me wonder more, what would have happened if Toghon Temur had looked at Danashiri differently from the start. You see, to me Danashiri looks like a person who actually wants to be loved by Empreror genuinely, but him not doing it is making her do crazy stuff. Agreed she was a bratty girl since start, was arrogant being a warlord's daughter, but we have seen such women changing if being loved by the King and siding with him instead of the father. The reaction she gave, when she heard Toghon Temur was coming to see her, she changing her clothes soon and putting on make up just to look pretty for him and thinking he comes out of concern for her was very correctly portrayed. Now I am not saying she should not be held accountable for her actions, but there are scenes which very well portray Danashiri as a love seeking woman and not an evil woman. Some scenes actually showcase her innocence which she still has despite being evil. So she is not a regular evil women we have seen who are all about scheming new plans, she is seen to have an innocent side, a humorous side and a side which longs for love, which makes her seem more natural. She is evil because of her own reasons, despite that still manages to keep those qualities, is something I am loving her character for. She is not the typical evil woman, she is evil, but different. Plus I actually love how they portrayed her, a pretty woman, with innocent looks and still evil, which is rare in Kdramas. So far, for me both Danashiri and El Temur have been the most interesting characters of the drama. 

 

Coming back to story, Nyang starts working in Palace, Toghon Temur makes her accompany him all the time, makes her read him stories all night, but she still insists to be allowed to leave to be with Wang Yoo who is her true King. She is informed about Wang Yoo's death as the news of them being defeated by the Turks is spread all over the palace, she becomes sick, Emperor visits her and is being informed about the victorious arrival of Wang Yoo and co. from battle.

 

 

Now in episode 14th Wang Yoo arrives in the palace, with all rumors spread about him for being a man of wild desires and being a womanizer, but his arrival is accompanied by all the court maids fan girling over him. They meet up with the Emperor who commends their efforts and gifts them riches for their achievements. Nyang comes to know about Wang Yoo's arrival and rushes to see him, and then something like this happens, which is not less than a WTH moment.

 

4709254d63128864941be6e460f8dbbe.jpg

 

Anyway, Wang Yoo asks his men to look for Nyang and his Eunuch tells him about having a friend in the palace, which would help in finding her faster. Wang Yoo and Emperor have a private meeting, where they discuss over Nyang and literally verbally fight over where she would be happy? In the palace in Yuan or in her country Goryeo.

 

Bang Shin Woo (Wang yoo's Eunuch), meets up with his friends who happens to be the chief of maids in palace or whatever it is called. Through him he meets Nyang, sets up a meeting for her and King in the temple in the evening. Of course this meeting will have to fail, as on the other hand Dowager Empress puts pressure on Danashiri for not being pregnant and her servant suggesting her to bow in the shrine for 108 times in moonlight to get pregnant with a boy, unknown to both of them that Dowager's plan to make her infertile has been success for now because of the small gift she sent her. 

 

So comes the evening, we see Danashiri bowing in the shrine, Nyang unable to leave because of the arrival of drunk Emperor, who sort of forces himself on her before coming back to his senses and Wang Yoo arriving at the place on time after spending a lot of time on his looks. This end up in a bad intro to both Wang Yoo and Danashiri. She does recognize him unlike Wang Yoo, they have some not pleasant talk which results in Wang Yoo getting slapped and stopping the second slap which results in Danashiri leaving. 

 

We see a flashback of Toghon Temur's father being poisoned by El Temur. Him openly poisoning him was very savage, but before that, it seems like the old Emperor does write some vow and hide it, which El Temur is now after.

 

In a party held for the war heroes, Wang Yoo finally meets Nyang, Emperor observes this and does not like it. He ends up drinking a bit too much. Wang Yoo also realizes that it was the Queen with who he had encountered during the night time. The party was mostly about Wang Yoo and Nyang stealing glances before being asked by the Dowager to play Geomungo for them as he is talented in playing it. He does it and impresses others more especially the Dowager Empress and Danashiri. Party abruptly ends when one of El Temur's guy is found hanging in the library who was killed and disposed by Tal Tal the night before.

 

Wang Yoo is informed about the plague in Goryeo resident village, and hints about the death of the guy found in library being related to there, Wang Yoo tries to visit the village, but is rudely stopped and sent back the village foreman. Episode ends with Wang Yoo and Wang Ko joining forces with Wang Ko being out of favor by El Temur, Wang Yoo entering the palace, Nyang running somewhere, Emperor searching for Nyang and all this happening with rock metal music playing in the back ground :crazily:.

 

I continued the reviews/thoughts about the next 2 episodes in the next post.

 

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Our Emperor can´t seem to win. He should first grow up and then to try impress Nyang.

 

El temur still know´s how to hold the power. Even if he´s losing some battle´s. 

 

this is like and cat and mouse game. :joy:

 

One thing I have to say I love all the supporting actors/actresses. 

 

 

 

 

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 Episode 15 starts with Wang Yoo hiding Nyang in a room or library with the Emperor searching for her. They have a talk, Nyang offers to help, but Wang Yoo declines it worrying about her safety. He leaves, Nyang does the same. But we see a creepy side of Emperor while this happens. He in Nyang's chamber, sees her handkerchief, smells it continuously thinking about Nyang, which actually is not cool sir . 

This actually made his innocent image fade away for me, ladies beware of guys like this, they are dangerous. 

 

Wang Yoo decides to use the appeals in order to provoke El Temur. His eunuch seeks Nyang's help about which Wang Yoo is kept in dark. Wang Yoo also has a lunch with Dowager Empress, which is attended by an uninvited guest call Danashiri, about whom I am sure is having a crush on Wang Yoo, 100% sure about it. Well, everyone loves Wang Yoo, from Dowager Empress to El Temur, and he has got everything which Toghon Temur lacks except for the throne of course. So when Dowager Empress sings Wang Yoo's praises, Toghon Temur too tries to impress everyone, which results in total destruction within 10 seconds. To me, this scene was the most hilarious of the drama so far. So something like this happened 

 

Spoiler

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Spoiler

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Spoiler

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Toghon do apply cold water on the burned area . :popcornjackson:

 

His poem does also end not in a good way since he forgets the last bits of it, and Danashiri didn't look to be in the mood to hold back. She just like most of the language teachers, asks the same question they would after we would be done reciting our poem 

 

Spoiler

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The drama suddenly becomes a sports drama with Toghon Temur deciding to defeat Wang Yoo in soccer/football which he has been playing since his childhood is sort of pro in it. They go for the practice, Toghon Temur brings up the combination of his inner Messi and Ronaldo, and defeats his Eunuchs single-handedly. But when he challenges Nyang for it, she gives him the reality check and he sort of realizes that Eunuchs were merciful to him getting defeated like that. 

 

The episode then continues with Yom Byung Soo getting infected by the plague, King distributing his riches among the residents of Goryeo village and Nyang being successful in sending the written appeal to El Temur. Finally we see the football match happening, Danashiri rushing to the see the match, and not so secretly cheering for Wang Yoo.

 

The football match ends as tie with Toghon Temur injured while trying save the goal. I mean seriously, how weak this guy really is. El Temur aggressively searches for the one who is provoking him. Meets up with Wang Yoo and somewhat gets convinced that he has not done it. Tangqishi again realizes his father's fondness towards him and sort of feels insecure about it, so much that I wouldn't be surprised if he thinks that his father will adopt Wang Yoo. Great to see Tangqishi losing out to Wang Yoo with Nyang and his father both.

 

Wang Yoo pulls another trick to provoke El Temur. Which makes El Temur take the throne to himself, make Toghon Temur beg for his life and make him live silently without doing anything. We see Toghon Temur breaking down, and needing help to be taken out while holding him left side of chest which hints towards his weak heart condition. The episode ends with Nyang comforting Toghon Temur and Wang Yoo looking at them from far.

 

To me the latest 4 episodes were mix of boring and exciting. I would see myself fast forwarding many scenes, but watching some scenes carefully. The story so far is fine, I think we are seeing much more development in Wang Yoo-Danashiri relation than in Wang Yoo-Nyang. Don't remember whether there were some people who shipped Wang Yoo and Danashiri, but she sure is having a huge crush on our Goryeo King. Thank you for reading the long post.

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1 hour ago, joccu said:

Our Emperor can´t seem to win. He should first grow up and then to try impress Nyang.

 

El temur still know´s how to hold the power. Even if he´s losing some battle´s. 

 

this is like and cat and mouse game. :joy:

 

One thing I have to say I love all the supporting actors/actresses. 

 

 

 

 

To me the he is the weakest character right now. I mean he sure is weak politically with only Dowager Empress giving him support, which is also for her own benefit. But when he is cornered like that, he actually needs to try and grow up. The least he can do is try to be mature and do something productive. Maybe ask Nyang to teach him read or write instead of teasing her all day. 

 

So far, he looks hopeless. Not saying he should stand up against El Temur, but he needs to try to at least become some one worthy to rule. 

 

As for El Temur, this guy does not hesitate in using his power, it is one of the main reasons I like this guy. Knows how strong he is, knows when to retreat and when to attack. 

 

I love everything till now... not you Toghon, please grow up, but hate the music. I mean who really is the sound director here?

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How can the music be so bad in this drama? :joy:

 

Kim Jang Woo (aka Jay Kim) is the composer. Was his music equally "interesting" in other dramas like Shall we have dinner?, Doctor Stranger, Mr. Back, Bad Guys, Mr. Black etc.?

 

Wonder what happened to him? Seems that he hasn't been working at all since 2015...?

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3 hours ago, partyon said:

How can the music be so bad in this drama? :joy:

 

Kim Jang Woo (aka Jay Kim) is the composer. Was his music equally "interesting" in other dramas like Shall we have dinner?, Doctor Stranger, Mr. Back, Bad Guys, Mr. Black etc.?

 

I actually liked the music in Doctor Stranger, Bad Guys. Can't say much about the other 3, Mr. Back's music was also not bad as far as I remember (watched it long ago). 

 

3 hours ago, partyon said:

Wonder what happened to him? Seems that he hasn't been working at all since 2015...?

I think the "confidential information" about him being the man behind Empress Ki's music got leaked :rubchin:

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Swords and Destiny Sageuk Poll 2

 

A new sageuk poll is up!

  • Which is your favorite kiss in a sageuk?
  • Who is your favorite second lead?
  • Who annoys you the most in a sageuk?

 

Please vote! :kiss_wink:

 

Thank you!
Your Event Organizers @partyon & @Lmangla

:piggydance:

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Hello All!

I am dropping this off as I had written this when I watched the episodes. I knew I would forget otherwise juggling all these dramas on my rotation.

 

Love the thoughts by @Sleepy Owl I agree about the Queen she is a mix of innocent and evil but she could have been fine if Togon looked at her well---I feel the same for METS (rewatch) I am watching too. I am not loving Togon's character either at the moment.

 

Here is my submission for this week's watch :

 

 

Empress Ki 17-20 

 

-The Queen is funny and so full of it on her crush on Wang Yu. She actually thinks WY likes her?! Dang her obsession and cheering him during that soccer match. Also thinking the Shadow Puppet show the Emperor wanted for Nyang she invited WY and assumed (wrongly) it was for her. Seeing Nyang being literally pulled both ways by Togon & WY grabbing her hands. Lol. Count on clueless Queen to not see it and make her step back. Later to see her ask for WY help to find the actual people who wanted to poison ( with really poisoned wine) for  her father.

 

-Togon upset at Nyang interacting with WY. His really absurd orders you will die if you smile, cry, laugh in front of WY. Oh please petulant Togon. But before that she helps Togon while helping WY too. 

 

WY uses Togon’s death vow search and creates a ruckus from disappearing ink (from Magicians from the West) they were all killed darn it El Temur is ruthless. WY playing on his not seeing his enemy and playing on his fears, he then unleashes rats by the hundreds onto the palace from the Koryo village. Interesting to learn toad skin is a strong drug to collect them. We learn the strict leader is the missing head Eunuch Jokho. My fave evil guy Yom feels its suspicious there and pretends to join them. Funny when he tried to listen to WY men chat with the leader, the leader poked him the ear. Lol! From the former fave lady (crazy one) staying with Nyang is from Koryo and when sane admits Jokho has the blood vow.

 

El Temur admires WY and definitely liked their board game and his admiration of him further fueled his son Tangqisi jealousy and suspicion. WY using the fake poison Western wine and tested in Tangqisi was brilliant. But spies upon spies Togon with backbone and quest to rid WY, uses Banyan with Tal Tal’s brainpower to switch the bottle with real poison to blame WY.  I mean making a quick impression to make copy of key & preparing the wine- very smarty indeed. Banyan lucky to have such a bright nephew. You got to admit faking a death to see who your friends and foes are was a brilliant idea.

 

WY again wanting to try everyone talks to Empress Dowager appealing you her as coming clean about the posters. Hehe. Then using El Temur two bickering men who dislike each other with dangling offer of regent. Then she upset Banyan and Tal Tal who ‘killed’ El Temur & got no award.

 

Thanks to Nyang visiting the other Koryo friends she witnessed bean soup pass by and from Head Eunuch the Empress Dowager is allergic to beans. We learned in the past she made it for El Temur as way to build up tolerance to poison. Sneaky. It’s like constant back stabbing and cat and mouse galore. WY hedging bets everywhere to try to be King of Koryo again. So exciting she realized El Temur was alive to warn the new partnership of disgruntled Banyan/Tal Tal with WY. Then Togon being not as a weakling saying Nyang was right and execute El Temur now!

 

The script pushing WY and Nyang as an item. I mean the longing looks from WY yes and Nyang a bit better.  WY not wanting Nyang in harms way but you know she is not sitting in the sidelines. Genius to have the blood tears in the Buddha image. Also when she was punished after Tangqisi tricked them to punish her and WY. No one can have her if he cannot be with her. Her torture and later WY asking for Nyang in favor of his support IF he can be reinstated as King of Koryo. Good he took her away and even when Togon wanted her , she was no longer a court lady. WY personally caring for her, confession to her was sweet. Their embrace on the bridge & her pledges to return and be by his side until they go back to Koryo. She is a loyal subject. When he lied and told her he didn’t care or wanted her help, it hurt him. So that shadow puppet scene he was reinstating /taking back his harsh words to Nyang then.  I liked how WY admitted he didn’t know her past. When he cried regretting 15 yrs woman and daughter as concubines got beat and released and possibly daughter died he truly regretted. So when Nyang confesses then he realized ooh that’s why you disguised as a man. Loved her not wanting to be relegated to cleaning and cooking to make sure her archery skills weren’t lost. 

 

While Nyang is gone Togon drinks and confronts Nyang why not him. I was wondering when he would ask. So when he found out who her dad after saying just saying his family were duly compensated. He had no words to retort back. The kneeling in regret and pain. Hearing Nyang was consumed with thoughts of killing him, he let her kill him. Glad Lady Park told her if he died all those from Koryo would perish. So thanks to her telling her that, Nyang did not kill Togon. Cause and effect no clean revenge/  as there is no simple answer.

 

Funny the montage of Togon  memories with her as she put the hairpin for WY. I loved how she played off to him not wearing it first thing in the day but later halfway through the day. She knows how to make an impact. as she wore it though it did not match her outfit. Oh what a tease! Poor WY was heartbroken when Nyang came out without it first thing in the morning. How WY was teased by his crew about the pretty pin and his happy smile and Nyang willing to be his Queen after she wore it. I mean duh doesn’t match her more masculine attire. Then mandatory scene of them kiss being together overnight. So I foresee her getting a child perhaps? 

 

I liked Togon’s newer outfits and very colorful now in these episodes. Tangqisi being evil and annoying. The crazed lady in waiting was interesting so I feel she is in there for us to go back to the blood vow storyline? When will Yom be punished? Still upset whenever I see his conniving face on screen!

 

Tal Tal so handsome and not lying love seeing him there when I can. WY is so handsome, manly and stoic. When he picked up the Queen from the rats, she was reluctant to let go and get out of his arms. Lol. But cannot blame her! I mean Togon was jealous that he overpowers him as the ‘man’ image to all the women. 

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Great thoughts @Nodame Thanks for them :kiss_wink:

 

Here are my thoughts for ep 17-20.

 

1. Every week I think the music can't get any worse. Every week:

wrong richard pryor GIF

 

2. El Temür just won't die.:rage: Yeom and him are made from the same tenacious cockroach material, and I just want the both of them to be put in a rocket and sent to Jupiter.

 

3. Loved how oppa was trying to make Nyang happy and invited her to a shadow play. He really wanted to do something nice for her. :heart:

 

4. I also noticed that they are communicating more openly with each other. She is able to show a wider range of emotions towards him - also anger and express clearly what she wants.

 

I feel she is more herself with oppa than she is with Wang Yoo.

With Wang Yoo she is either looking at him "Jeona! Jeona!" or crying. Nyang and Wang Yoo are tied together by their childhood and by their tragic past. It's like it's based on duty and an infatuation, more than it is based on love. She has this notion that she must serve him in order to repay him for trying to save her and her mother.

 

5. It was quite heartbreaking for oppa to realize Nyang's past and the connection to her father.... He felt so backed into a corner, that he finally found the courage to do something about it and try to get rid of cockroach 2 (El Temür). Yeah, he wants to get rid of Wang Yoo too - who can blame him? :D

Nyang was quite cruel towards oppa when she came clean. Yet afterwards she cried.

Pretty clear that she has feelings for oppa.

46f4dc_2a15a55dcf524589950f9dbd13379700.

 

6. So Nyang and Wang Yoo did it..... That was surprising!

46f4dc_e552cc9fc57c49dda54137ede1b075ec.

But what was even more surprising was that it wasn't an easy process for Nyang....

She wavered when Wang Yoo asked her to marry him. She couldn't stop thinking and crying about oppa.

So she's finally realizing that oppa moved her heart and that she's in love with him too.

Wang Yoo won this time - let's see what happens in the second round.....

 

7. Glad to see Nyang in Seung Nyang's clothes again.

 

8. Have you guys noticed that oppa calls Nyang "Nyang" whereas Wang Yoo calls her "Seung Nyang"?

I think it's actually quite telling how each man sees her :kiss_wink:

 

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WY look happy but :

Spoiler

he dont know Sleeping with SY in that night will cost him :

1. lossing SY.

2. lossing his son and eventuly his sons life .

3. many goryo servents that hepled SY  will die

4. his most trusted firends will die .

5. his own life .

.

.

.

and more.

 

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Nice thoughts and summary @Nodame :approves:.

 

Here are my thoughts and summary of 17-20 episodes. I have also included some comments on the main characters in the end after the summary of 4 episodes. 

 

We already saw the El Temur being agitated by all the poster event and also angry over not being able to find the previous Khan's vow. So in 17th episode He storms into the temple where Dowager Queen prays and confronts her over the recent events in the palace regarding the Vow and the posters. By this confrontation, he does come to conclusion that Dowager Empress is not behind those events. On the other hand, we see Wang Yoo angry and angrily breaking the cup in his hand while thinking about Taghon leaning on Nyang.

 

The other day Wang Yoo is invited by the Dowager, Toghon Temur is also supposed to meet her, while Danashiri self invites herself when she learns Wang Yoo is meeting her. Nothing much happens there, Dowager wants to Yuan Princess to marry Wang Yoo, since she is too fond of him and thinks its a waste too for him to be single, apart from the fact that she wants Goryeo and Yuan to stay connected like this. Nyang is supposed to serve the tea, she stumbles, is literally made to fall by that bully maid, Wang Yoo heroically saves Nyang, and acts as a shield, getting burns from the boiling water. Nyang leaves immediately to see Wang Yoo, puts some medicine on his wounds. She promises to return at night, but Toghon knowing it does not let her leave all night.

 

El Temur had already executed all the magicians of the town because of the posters, and wanted it to serve as a warning to ones behind it. He goes for an outing some days later, only to be made to stop and take some cover because of the rain, which results in him seeing more of those posters and getting enraged more. Toghon wants to use this opportunity, having found some hidden allies and gain the upper hand over El Temur, he tries to find the Vow too using Bayan and Tal Tal and also Nyang helping him for it. Wang Yoo comes up with another plan of collecting rats and making them free in the palace to make it look like Late Khan's curse's beginning. 

 

Before that we do see Toghon setting up a shadow show for Nyang, which Danashiri thinks is set up for her, and invites Wang Yoo for it too. Now again, Danashiri is evil, no doubt in that, but she was evil from start, she was a spoiler brat who became like this because of the Toghon's constant negligence towards her. The happiness she showed while knowing that the shadow show was for her was genuine, same was the case with her enjoying the show and happy for it to be done for her by Toghon. While in reality, Toghon and Wang Yoo were in tug of war using Nyang was the rope. 

 

Episode 18 starts with Wang Yoo's plan working and rats moving all over the palace. We do see Wang Yoo winning Danashiri's heart more by picking her up heroically when she was surrounded by rats and saving her from them. Look Toghon, this is how you win a lady's heart, by poetry, by football and picking her up when she is danger and not by throwing constant tantrums, acting silly and teasing her to the point of annoyance. Anyway, so Wang Yoo uses all these incidents to spread rumors among the public regarding Khan's curse. And then we see Buddha's statue crying blood, which even Wang Yoo does not know who is behind, but is revealed to be Nyang's work. Wang Yoo one steps forward and meets up El Temur winning his trust, only to make Tangqishi more jealous of him and get scolded by El Temur.

 

We come to know that the vow was given by Khan to his eunuch named Jokho, whose whereabouts are not known to anyone. Yom Byeong Su aka The cockroach continues his search for clues in the Goryeo village by getting nearer to the village foreman. Bayan finds Jokho and sets up a meeting with him. Despite everyone's constant request, Toghon deicides to meet Jokho himself, only to know that he has fallen in the trap of Tangqishi, and so seems the case for Wang Yoo who was also invited to the same Tavern. Things get messy, when El Temur comes, he is about kill Toghon but then Dowager Queen arrives and stops it, and leaves with Toghon. On the other hand Tangqishi also having caught Nyang, points sword towards Wang Yoo having proved that he was indeed the man behind posters, only to be punched in public by El Temur who is furious on him for doubting Wang Yoo. We see them taking away Nyang, who is later freed by El Temur in exchange of Wang Yoo helping him.

 

Episode 19 starts with Wang Yoo saving Nyang while she was tortured and also punching Tangqishi once who loses his consciousness with one punch. I mean how can someone be so weak? This is not the first time we see him passing out after being punched once. Toghon comes to know that Nyang has left with Wang Yoo and is not longer a palace maid, to which he tries to speak with El Temur, only to be insulted by him. We see Wang Yoo treating and taking care of Nyang who has fever because of the wounds from torture. And meanwhile also buying some poison toad skins. Tal Tal following them comes to know about and gets an idea what they are upto. 

 

Wang Yoo meets El Temur and tells him about the plan. He tells him that he has to die, for his hidden enemies come out. Shows him the wine, mixed with the poison, which does not kill, but weakens the pulses and slowers the breathing making people think the person is dead. This trick is first tried on Tangqishi, which actually serves him well, if only they tried real poison and killed him. Well, Toghon loves the idea and decides to go for it. On the side, since Tal Tal has come to know about their plan, meets up with Toghon and he order them to try and replace with real poison. This will help them get rid of both Wang Yoo and El Temur altogether. Thinking this way since Wang Yoo will be executed Nyang will return to him, the typical Monarch's thoughts. 

 

We come to know that the Goryeo Village foreman was actually Jokho and wears wig, which is much better than most of the ones that MC's of Sageuks are made to wear. Toghon confronts Nyang saying how could she leave him like this, only to come know about her hate for him and the fact that Ki jaho was her father who died because of him as a traitor while being the one who protected him. Tal Tal and Bayan successfully replace the wne bottle, El Temur decides to declare a state of emergency, calls for a yurt court on palace grounds, locks up Dowager Queen so she does not cause problems. Has his drink and collapses, and so does her tester who dies outside the tent in the palace, seeing which Nyang comes to know is real poison. 

 

In Episode 20, we see El Temur not faring well against the poison, in a critical condition. Toghon orders Wang Yoo to be arrested as he was the one who gave wine to El Temur. We see Wang Yoo and Tangqishi arguing over Wang Yoo trying to kill El Temur, only to be interrupted by Danashiri, who asks Wang Yoo to help them find the real killer. Wang Yoo accepts, asks Danashiri to tell her brother follow the plan, while he tries to gain more info from the other side. He meets up with Dowager Queen, tells her that he was guy behind the posters and says that now that El Temur is on deathbed, they need to gain control before Tangqishi replaces him. Dowager meets up with two of the closest generals of El Temur separately, who are the strongest people in court after him. Requests both of them to assume Regency, but only after subduing Tangqishi's army to gain control and telling each of thm to take help from the other. Nyang on the other hands meet up with Danashiri in place of Wang Yoo and tells her about the plans of both General Bang and Jugukchong for a coup. Danashiri informs her brothers about it and we them moving El Temur out of the palace, making people more sure about his critical condition and making many think he is dead. 

 

Wang Yoo proposes Nyang, by giving her a hairpin, and tells her that if she wears it, he'll take her answer as yes. He waits for her in the morning, only to see her not wearing it, and feels sad about it. But she does wear it later, and Wang Yoo really does get happy about it. Wang Yoo wants Dowager Empress to include Bayan and Tal Tal in their plan, but she is not so sure about it and decides against it. We see Wang Yoo meeting them later though and proposing a plan to them. Later that night, Wang Yoo meets up with Nyang, combs her hair for her, and shares how much he regrets freeing the slaves years ago, which resulted in many people's death, including the death of a daughter and mother. Nyang tells him that she was the daughter he is talking about and that she never hated him for doing it and does not blame him for it, and asks him not to blame himself a lot for it. They share a kiss then and then BOOM, we them having slept together. 

 

Next day which seems to be the D-day arrives, Wang Yoo and co. are told that El Temur had died by Tangqishi. They prepare to fight off the combined forces of the 2 guys promised regency by the Dowager Queen, at night. Roaming in the palace, Nyang sees Bean Broth being taken to the Queen's quarter which is only to be drunk by El Temur. It comes to be known that drinking bean broth which works against toxins, which meant that El Temur had already trained his body against potential poisoning. Sneaky guy I'd say. Nyang rushes to Wang Yoo, who has plans to kill off Tangqishi during their fight with the two regent potentials. But before that she informs Toghon about it, who after confirming it, plans to assassinate El Temur in the palace. She kills one of them using the arrow with white cloth on it, indicating El Temur being alive to Wang Yoo and co. where the episode ends. 

 

 

 

Now my thoughts on some characters after 20 episodes. 

 

1. Nyang. Since she is the ML, we got to speak about her first. Her love for Wang Yoo is still a mystery for me as to when and how happened, but let us just accept that it happened. Not much development in her character I guess, except the fact that we do get some development in her and Toghon's love hate relationship. We see her thinking about him, while holding the hairpin given by Wang Yoo as a marriage proposal to her, which has got me confused. Is she loving both of them? Is she having second thoughts? Whatever it is, I think we'll not see much of Nyang-Toghon love happening too, we know Toghon loves her, but Nyang, her love for him seems sudden if it is and I think we'll see her fall for him in a similar way as she did for Wang Yoo. 

 

2. Wang Yoo. Everyone's favorite on the drama. By everyone I mean, every character's favorite. El Temur loves him, Dowager Queen loves to the extent that sometimes it feels like she also has got crush on him. And well Danashiri has got the hugest crush on him, while Nyang loves him too. Very few people hate him, and the reason for their hate is usually because he is loved by others. I think we get to see his brilliant diplomacy in the last 5-6 episodes, since he started searching for the vow, while also making El Temur confused by all those rats and poster events. Many may raise up questions as to how he could pull it off, but he actively acted a double agent or better say triple agent in all this El Temur poisoning case, and somewhat makes out alive and does not lose anyone's trust in this process. I think all the war thing, sort of was a waste in showing his skills, which the recent episodes in a much better way. 

 

3. Toghon. Toghon, to me till now has been the weakest character. Not at all mature, sort of mature lately, but not really. Lacks the skills of a politician, knows nothing about diplomacy, is living the luxurious life of a puppet monarch, who fools around a maid who he loves while not really trying to gain more power and weaken the regent. Which he does try later, but his motives are not so pure. I did say he was like a typical monarch, thinking to get Wang Yoo killed in all the El Temur poisoning incident, just so that Nyang could come back to him. We have seen countless monarchs doing the same. His negligence to his wife, has resulted in her becoming more cruel, and also made things somewhat politically unstable in the palace. Let us see whether he'll improve or not, but this memes worries me a lot 

 

73d6e8ede91e4a1f57544efdf66cfdd4.jpg

 

4. Danashiri. We got to see her as a spoiled brat of El Temur, who lacks basic manners, is arrogant and thinks highly about herself. She fails in sleeping with Toghon, who just does not feel like doing it with her, firstly because he gets reminded on El Temur after seeing her face, and secondly, he was asked not to do it with her by Dowager Queen. Time to time we have seen her somewhat yearning for Toghon, or getting frustrated at not being seen as a woman by him. She longs to be loved by him, but does not get any and it is what is actually pushing her to do things which she may not have done till now. And time to time we have seen her get excited just to the news of Toghon coming to meet her. Her joy and happiness in watching the shadow show cannot be described in words, and so does her happiness of thinking it to be something set up by Toghon for her. Not trying to defend her evil acts, which are totally wrong, but the fact that once we saw her saying that she became like this because of Toghon was not completely wrong. If he had partially fulfilled his duty as husband for her, maybe she would not turn so evil. Plus well, we see her falling for Wang Yoo and being delusional in him liking her too. But as I said, she has got the hugest crush out there on Wang Yoo. 

 

5. El Temur. This guy is the sneaky out there. Preparing his body for years against poisoning. Has the power, does not hesitate in displaying it and using it. Wanted to be the true Emperor by killing Toghon, but decided to be the man behind the King, big mistake I'd say. But for now he has got the ultimate power in Yuan and no one can really match up to his political power, but in status, he has got Dowager Queen as his equal. 

 

6. Dowager Queen. She seems to be worrying a lot for Toghon, but in reality, she is very similar to El Temur, in terms of thirst for power. She knows, in the end it will be either her or El Temur, as the person controlling the Emperor. Has taken Toghon's side, because El Temur is the guy against him. She just like El Temur, has been controlling Toghon. Wants him to follow all the plans she sets up for him, which sort of is a wise thing, because Toghon is stupid af when it comes to political decisions. We'll have to see how she'll manage in the future, but for Toghon, it is best for him, that El Temur and Dowager Queen continue their power battle and that power remains balanced between them, otherwise, the one with more power will control him, which seems to be the case of El Temur, who currently has got the upper hand.

 

7.Tangqishi. Finally the last character I want to write about is this guy. We had a talk a couple weeks ago about this guy's perception skills. He is highly perceptive of both Wang Yoo and Nyang. Especially Nyang. Is frustrated by the fact that he is falling for her, but he was the one who first became suspicious of Nyang not giving poison to Lady Park to cause miscarriage. Same becomes the case with Wang Yoo, who when offers to help El Temur, becomes suspicious of his intentions. Sort of traps him too, only to be humiliated by his father in front of everyone, who tells him that he is just jealous. He might be jealous, I mean is actually jealous, but he knows one basic thing, which no one or at least not many have till now figured out, and that is never trust Nyang and Wang Yoo. Whatever they are doing is, for themselves and not for their enemies. 

 

8. Yeom Byung soo. One word for him. Cockroach.

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@the8dark8angel Sigh. I know as I did read all the recaps/blurbs (quickly) back when it aired. Just finally committing to watch it during this rewatch party.

 

@partyon LOL yeah the music===though not great is not jarring to me. BUT it is also not as enjoyable as other Korean drama OSTS that I enjoy. So I do find the music not really memorable to me (unless it is a ballad). Great post and love your thoughts.

 

@Sleepy Owl Love your very dedicated and detailed recap. So much time and attention, I felt I was reliving the episode reading it. Thank you! I love your nickname for Byung Soo (cockroach) I will use that from now on.  I wrote one character in "Once Again" as leech and others in the forum started it in place of her character name. (LOL the actress was that good but this actor takes Yeom Byung Soo to another level of evil and being despicable. Makes me sad as one of my sweetest dongsengs is named Byung Soo too.)

 

LOL yeah Jokho's wig was DEFINITELY higher quality in this saeguk. Great observation and I so agree. Also your commentary of Wang Yoo kissing Nyang and "boom" they are in bed is soooo true. Just sock me in the face with a bowling ball please.

 

Nyang's love to WY (me too) is not one I believe. I said before I feel more of servant/vassal to king than actual equal footing relationship. I feel with Togon she has more chance to be on equal footing and she knows of his embarrassing and vulnerable moments. Def concur with your thoughts on this love triangle.

 

Your thoughts on the other characters I totally concur. Thanks for your awesome write up. 

 

I cannot wait to read @Jillia comments.

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Thank you for mentioning me, @Nodame! :D

:fullofhearts:

I have to admit I'm super behind on the drama. I'm still on episode 15 and I probably won't write anything until after episode 20 simply because you,@partyon and @Sleepy Owl said it all.

:wow1:

 

I just want to say I'm not giving up on the drama but have to admit I lost my momentum for the drama a bit. But I hope you can expect me to write something up for the episodes 21 to 24. :D

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Just done watching the series. Here’s my POV.

 

The drama was at it’s best during the first 5 episodes. There were lots of boring moments after that and the ending seemed rush. 
WY’s character has lost it’s real role, to be honest most of his scenes seems to be made just for him to keep on existing, some of them were boring as well and his life is truly tragic. 
 

WY and TH.

I think what disappointed me with WY’s character is how indecesive his character role was. He was being portrayed as a good king at the beginning but in the end it became most for his love story. Like yeah, as if the character himself or the writers, doesn’t know if his character should stick to being a good king or SN’s lover... it was all over the place. 
But nevertheless, they were able to show how good of a king he was. Though his actions weren’t too clever for a king but yes, he was able to show his desperation for his kingdom’s situation in the end. 
 

TH, there were some parts where he was incredibly annoying and parts where I wish SN would just leave him.

I think what I liked about his character is how decesive he was, he know what he wants and will do everything for it. 
 

SN, I love the manly SN. Honestly speaking, the love sick SN was annoying for me and HJW’s acting in those scenes weren’t great as well.

Although I find it hard to believe how can she be stronger than those brute men who have been fighting and training longer than her. It was entetaining to see her get revenge. Her schemes and ruthlesness is what made her a really great character to watch.

Although, I honestly disliked how she treated Maha even after finding out the truth about him.

 

The most talked about and debatable part of this series is the love triangle. I think she both loved them in different way. WY was her first love or first crush, but their moments together stayed with servant/master so it wasn’t fully developed. She will never see him as her partner or someone equal because he will always be her king.

While with TH, I think it helped that she saw his feelings, he never hid it. From the moment she was assigned as his body guard her opinion of him started to change.

She saw him as the emperor of the great empire who

also happened to be their enemy. But while guarding him, he saw how he is no different than her. He’s a human who gets scared, gets lonely, missing his family. In a way he saw him as a normal human and not an emperor.

 

When they returned to Koryo and he was taken by El Temur, she hesitated and worried for him and wanted to stop them but WY stopped her- thinking everything is alright. She was worried knowing they could hurt him and knowing he will be afraid.

 

When she accepted the hairpin, she was happy. Like any woman who’d find out their admirable king likes them. But then TH crossed her mind and she hesitated. If she doesn’t really feel anything for him, he wouldn’t cross her mind nor would he care about what he may feel.

 

Another thing is, when she was injured and TH offered to help her. She rejected it at first, out of fear that she will put him in trouble.

 

Though SN hate TH, I think there was a especial bond that ws formed between them when she started to become his body guard. It wasn’t love at that time but she really did started to care for him(like asking WY to bring a cook for TH and sewer cuz his clothes were torn) you can see WY’s jealousy in those scenes.

 

At time that I think, though she has a crush for WY... her feelings for TH was also developing into someone she care about. That’s why his betrayal hurts her. 
 

Anyways I think she both loved them in different ways, it just happened that her feelings for TH grew more because of the times, dangers, failures and victories that they shared and mostly because, from the start TH was always a normal person in her eyes and not some majestic person.

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