[Drama 2013/2014] ♚ Empress Ki (기황후) ♚

[MayanEcho]

15 minutes ago, joccu said:

@partyon HAve a fun watching the first episode. ! I just finished the first episode. 

 

Is it good? Hahaha. I'll try to see it after an hour or two.

[joccu]

@MayanEcho I liked it.

[Fandomized Q]

I checked Empress Ki's history once I finished, out of sheer curiosity with how the show went. It's definitely different than what I read. I think there was some angry sparks when the show aired from knetz about history inaccuracies.

 

I don't really mind when historical stories aren't exactly same to what's on paper. Unless it's a documentary, stories are hard to adapt for entertainment. It's same when books/comics are adapted as live actions.  Locations/costumes and props(weapons, food, vehicles etc) play more important part. As long as they managed to stay true to those, I think changes to storyline is fine. I'd rather have a solid interesting storyline that would hooks me up and inspires me to go check out the history. 

 

 

[Lmangla]

random question to chingus -- how do saeguks handle PPLs? it is not like you can do a PPL for a kimchi fridge in saeguk? so how do they make money?

 

[Lmangla]

ooh, thanks for the chart and translations @Jillia;

[Lmangla]

sound the horns!! horses neigh, swords clash.. meanwhile, minds swirl and clash. welcome to the world of empress ki where every day is a battle!

 

 

it is past midnight in seoul and wednesday has already begun. we are going to kick-start our re-watch party -- feel free to post your thoughts on ep 1 & 2, gifs, stills, pictures. have fun laughing and dissecting the numerous characters and figuring out who is who!  @partyon @Jillia @MVM @Fandomized Q @joccu @MayanEcho @Sleepy Owl @Ameera Ali @ailanthus @kehrite  ..... are you ready to discover ji chang wook's smile?

 

just like other airing drama threads, chingus are free to join in at any time. if you are swamped for time and other commitments, no worries. feel free to pop in when convenient. if you are following the thread, let us know and we will make sure we tag you for the fun polls and quizzes we have as we go along..

 

[partyon]

Alright, let me get this re-watch party started! @MVM @Fandomized Q @joccu @MayanEcho @Sleepy Owl @Ameera Ali @ailanthus @kehrite 

Keep in mind that this is my first sageuk ever. The reasons why I always before dropped sageuks after 10 min, came flooding into my mind with Empress Ki ep 1.... So please bear with me! This is how my thoughts went watching the episodes:

 

Episode 1:

1) Ooh, nice settings. Huge palace. Oppa looking handsome! Swoon.... Ha Ji Won also looking really lovely in her red dress getting married to oppa.

Hmm... She does look a lot older than him, though....?

 

2) Wait, what is this background music?

 

3) Tragic childhood. I see, this is going to be a REVENGE drama!

 

4) Ok, why do all the guys look totally the same to me? I can't tell them apart...

 

Spoiler

 

5) This background music is becoming annoying!

 

6) Alright, I am starting to get really confused. What is koryeo and all this other weird terminology they're using? Speed dial @Lmangla and @Jillia for some help.

7) How can they actually think that Seung Nyang is a boy? Would they never have noticed her lady parts in fights? Ok, best to leave logic out when watching this drama....

8) Now I am getting seriously confused! Who is betraying whom? What's with the salt? Speed dial @Jillia and @Berou Help me chingus!

@Jillia posts new character charts and both help out to explain how sageuks work. @Lmangla is laughing when reading my questions.

9) This background music is SUPER annoying!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

End of episode 1 <phew, I made it>

 

Episode 2:

1) I can do this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Don't give up! @Berou has told me that the first episodes of sageuks are always confusing.

 

2) They really are over-acting in this drama, aren't they? Especially Wang Ko!

Spoiler

 

He acts like this:

 

3) How many kings, princes and crown princes are there? Speed dial my friends again. I think they are starting to get annoyed over my questions, except for @Lmangla who can't stop laughing....

 

4) Ok, so I am starting to understand the story, but PLEASE MAKE THE BACKGROUND MUSIC STOP!!!!!!!

 

5) The haraboji king fainting in some lady's arms just makes me laugh.... Also, why are they shouting half of the time?
This overacting is like watching a Spanish speaking telenovela.

 

Spoiler

 

 

6) Why is there a guy with a modern haircut in this drama? His haircut makes me think of Taeyang....

Hmmm... Did they run out of money for wigs.....?

Spoiler

 

 

Just sayin'

 

7) Finally Oppa appears! Wait, why is he such a weakling.....?

But he still seems like a pretty sweet soul.

I can totally see Empress Ki falling for him. He's much cuter than the older dude in my opinion.

On a side note, love the Mongolian gers (tents) even though they do look a bit  too modern.

 

End of episode 2 <I made it!!!!!!>

 

My verdict? I will continue watching it ! Yay!

The background music though.....

 

 

 

[Lmangla]

 

@partyon ~ LOL, glad you survived the first two episodes of a saeguk! hahahaha... don't worry, you are not the only one who can't tell all these characters apart, thats my problem too in saeguks! hahahaha... especially since it seems like all the scheming court people are all dressed pretty much in identical uniforms types. just make nicknames for them (like gritting rick from bold and beautiful) and you will be able to remember them. hahahahha... ..

[Sleepy Owl]

@partyon remembering the characters in a Saeguk takes some time. Especially those ministers, they don't really get that much screentime and their uniform is same. So you might take some time telling characters apart. 

 

Also if I were to believe Saeguks, a lot of women back then would cross-dress a lot (would be easier in the joseon era) and the fellow Korean men would never really know they were women .

 

Edit: hidden content below is not related to Empress Ki and may not really be a spoiler. 

Spoiler

Saeguk "Sungkyunkwan Scandal" is based on a girl cross-dressing as a guy to go Sungkyunkwan university (during the Joseon era) and there are a lot of RickRoll'D moments in that . Most epic one being one of the characters sees her, brings his friends to show her to them and she is gone, so he starts thinking that a virgin ghost lurks though the university (something similar to that, i watched it years ago). 

 

Spoiler

The most epic one for me was in "Gu Family Book" in which Lee Seung Gi (the MC) did not realize Bae Suzy (FMC) was a girl initially. He does come to know that she is a girl when he accidentally places his hand on her chest to stop her, they look at each other awkwardly and this is me while watching that .

 

I can give many more examples, but yeah even I was shocked that they could not tell Seung Nyang was a girl. 

[Lmangla]

1 hour ago, partyon said:

My verdict? I will continue watching it ! Yay!

The background music though.....

hahahha... don't mock the music; after a few episodes, those notes are going to haunt you! hahahhaa... any dramatic incident in your life and you will hear those notes play in the background...

 

... and having difficulty telling apart the characters seem to be common problem for  many viewers because saeguks do these subtitles where they will remind you of who all these characters are in case if you have forgotten. kekeke...

 

36 minutes ago, Sleepy Owl said:

Also if I were to believe Saeguks, a lot of women back then would cross-dress a lot (would be easier in the joseon era) and the fellow Korean men would never really know they were women

LOL.. perfect gif you posted in response to that trope

[MayanEcho]

@Jillia Thanks for answering the queries of @partyon  

 

It was busy for me this week, and only now I can really sit and watch. I'll give my feedbacks later within the day. 

[joccu]

@partyon nicknames helps to remember like @Lmangla said.

saguek are always at first confusing because the are usually starting the story in the childhood of the main leads.

 

and in saguek the king usually has many children with different people. there are king and queen, then there are royal noble consort( that is thr title for the kings concubine).

the concubines have different ranks. the ranks 1-4 were considered part of royal family.

 

 

[MayanEcho]

1 minute ago, Jillia said:

No problem! I love researching, so it was fun. I never focused on that part of Korean history during my college time. But I love it!

 

Please don't make me miss the time while studying in college!  

[Sleepy Owl]

9 minutes ago, joccu said:

@partyon nicknames helps to remember like @Lmangla said.

saguek are always at first confusing because the are usually starting the story in the childhood of the main leads.

 

and in saguek the king usually has many children with different people. there are king and queen, then there are royal noble consort( that is thr title for the kings concubine).

the concubines have different ranks. the ranks 1-4 were considered part of royal family.

 

 

Yes nicknames always work. I remember watching Dae Jang Geum for the first time and was literally confused looking at all the court ladies (since they all had same hairstyle and uniform). So initially for me Lady Choi became the the evil court lady, Jang Geum's mentor (don't remember her name) became the good lady, one of Jang Geum's friend used to cry a lot so she became the "cry baby" and so on. 

 

Same was the case with Dong Yi. As far as I have seen, the more modern era becomes (like later Goryeo or Mid-later Joseon), the number of ministers increases and the court becomes larger making it difficult to remember the cases. But then again after watching some 10-12 episodes, you'll start remembering those characters with their actual names. Also many Saeguks are kind enough to write the name and rank of certain ministers who get less screentime so that the viewer can remember it. 

 

The Goryeo, Taejo of Goryeo had around 30 consorts out of which 6 were given the Queen title and around 40+ children, out of which 18 children belonged to the 6 Queens in which 12 were princes. Which means that the throne could go to any of the 12 children. It went to the three 3 one of them and you can also imagine the power struggle it could have caused. So this was the case in almost all eras in Korea, which led to conspiracies and treason.

 

What I am trying to say is whatever Saeguk we watch, they always try to reduce the number of characters so that we can remember them, but the ones remain are usually the ones who can't really be removed. Like I remember reading that King Geam Hwa had 6 princes. But the power struggle among those 6 princes would be too much for the drama, they reduced it to 3 for the drama Jumong.  

[Lmangla]

1 hour ago, Jillia said:

During that time the Yuan-Dynasty under the Mongol royal family was ruling in China, hence why we have so many Mongol names like Toghon Temür (however in the drama he is simply called by the Korean name Ta Hwan).

reading your research and having so many questions!

so during the lockdown, ended up randomly watching lots of language documentaries on youtube due to recommendations. so in one, learned about mongolian -- basically they use cyrillic (the russian language script) but are planning to shift to their ancient language script which is quite unique; so people have to now learn that and you read it top down and right across.

 

 

so here is my question -- what language and script are all these Mongol characters in this drama using? for trade purposes, how does it work? is there some sort of common language they can use when they cross borders? and how much did this ruling family retain of their Mongol heritage? or did they assimilate fully?

 

1 hour ago, Jillia said:

Koryeo was a vessel state to China, so had to send tributes anyways most likely.

this often confused me because different saeguks seemed to show different things -- perhaps politics varied through different time periods. so in this drama, how is the vessel state defined? if they have a king, is it a puppet king? how much administrative power do they have and why would there be a tussle to be king? (as in does being king give you any power at all?) am trying to understand if it is like EU type situation where countries are sovereign but have some sort of trade ties or is it like a regional province within a nation where they have some autonomy but certain calls come from the centre?

 

1 hour ago, Jillia said:

Salt was a very important commodity for China back then, even considered more important than gold.

from what I remember, this was also the case in the roman empire @partyon; think at one point, centurions were paid in salt. remember reading something like that once...  basically it was not just about flavour but the preserving quality,  which allows you to store/pickle vegetables and meat during the winter and also for use during the summer (basically doesn't get bad easily), made it highly important. therefore, it had high practical value as they didn't have freezers.

[Sleepy Owl]

4 minutes ago, Lmangla said:

 

this often confused me because different saeguks seemed to show different things -- perhaps politics varied through different time periods. so in this drama, how is the vessel state defined? if they have a king, is it a puppet king? how much administrative power do they have and why would there be a tussle to be king? (as in does being king give you any power at all?) am trying to understand if it is like EU type situation where countries are sovereign but have some sort of trade ties or is it like a regional province within a nation where they have some autonomy but certain calls come from the centre?

 

By vassal state, it means that around 1270 onward Goryeo became semi-autonomous state. Their monarchs had to marry the Mongol Princesses from the Yuan Dynasty and they would be the Queen. So basically the Monarchs of Goryeo started becoming the imperial son-in law and grandsons of Yuan Monarchs. By this Yuan Dynasty had very much influence in Goryeo's politics and also usually the Crown Prince would be sent to Yuan for sometime and would also need to get their approval before officially becoming a Crown Prince. This went on for almost 80 years and in the 1350s Gongmin started to push the Mongols out and made Goryeo autonomous again. 

[Lmangla]

15 minutes ago, Sleepy Owl said:

By this Yuan Dynasty had very much influence in Goryeo's politics and also usually the Crown Prince would be sent to Yuan for sometime and would also need to get their approval before officially becoming a Crown Prince

ah I see; this explains why in some saeguks, these princes were seen as kind of foreign -- in a way, they were if they were trained under the yuan dynasty for long periods of time especially from childhood....

[Sleepy Owl]

Just now, Lmangla said:

ah I see; this explains why in some saeguks, these princes were seen as kind of foreign -- in a way, they were if they were trained under the yuan dynasty for long periods of time especially from childhood....

Yeah if you watched Faith, it starts with Choe Young escorting King Gongmin (who spent many years in Yuan as the Crown Prince) and his Queen (who is a Mongol princess) back to Goryeo as he has now become the King. Also his clothes were based on the royal clothes of Yuan, which he later on abandons. 

 

So basically Yuan keeping Crown princes was for 2 reasons. Firstly and honestly they were hostages so that Goryeo would never think about attacking them or try to reduce their influence in the country. Secondly as you guessed training the Crown Princes in their way and teaching them their own culture. That's why in the years Goryeo was under Yuan (those 80 years), their culture was highly influenced by the Yuan dynasty. 

[Sleepy Owl]

22 minutes ago, Jillia said:

Yes, but only by the end of Yuan Dynasty Koryeo was able to be free of Mongol occupation. Also, afterwards they actually did swear loyality to the new Chinese dynasty which was the Ming Dynasty. But towards the end of Koryeo era, the king was not known to be favorable towards Ming-China. This changed when Yi Song Gye formed the new era, the Joseon era. He reformed the whole country and also was seeking tighter bonds with the Emperor of Ming-China.

 

I think due to its geographical location it was better for Korea back then to have good bonds with China to ensure they wouldn't have to suffer through annexion. So they rather welcome delegtions from China or sent delegations to China than to have to worry over a military strike.

 

Yes King Gongmin onward, the Goryeo rulers became more intolerant of Ming dynasty and led many campaigns against them. The final being led by general Yi Song Gye who moved his army back to capital instead of fighting the chinese. He said to have said that it is immoral for a small country (Goryeo) to fight a big nation (Ming). He dethroned King U and placed his son as the ruler and after sometime killed his son too and become the ruler. 

 

So after Joseon was founded, the korean rulers maintained political relations with Ming. They did have some influence over their politics but not that much and Joseon pretty much remained self-autonomous until the Manchu-invasions happened. This made Joseon ruler at that king Injo to bow 9 times in front of Hong Taiji (founding ruler of Qing Dynasty) and then Joseon became the tributary state to Qing Dynasty in 1640s I guess. So once again Joseon had to now get approvals for its Crown Princes and send some princes as hostages, princesses as consorts and many girls to serve as court ladies to Qing. 

 

So I think it could have been due geographical location. But also it could have been because they wanted to maintain sovereignty even if it required them to give up some of their authorities. Plus they also needed help from a stronger force to fight off the Japanese who were constantly trying to invade Korea.  

[kehrite]

I watched the first episode and half of the second. Sorry, not to sound shallow but this prince isn’t particularly attractive or charismatic in my opinion, are we seriously stuck with him for 50 episodes…?! Anyway, gorgeous music and I have to say, this black and gold robe at the beginning was stunning. Chaebols in suits can shove off, this right here is my bread and butter!