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mistyrain320

[Drama 2013] Thorn Flower / Spine Flower 가시꽃

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Hi everybody~!
So I did some research and found out on dramabeans site here: http://www.dramabeans.com/2013/01/poster-and-stills-for-revenge-drama-thorn-flower/that the writer of Thorn Flower is the writer of A Man Called God, a drama from 2010 which I didn't watch. 
SO I went to google "A Man Called God ending" (the things/sleuthing I do for Korean dramas kekeke... ) and found this: http://www.hancinema.net/chanmi-s-drama-news-a-man-called-god-finishes-with-good-ending--23459.html so if the writer keeps up his/her "record" of "good" ending then I guess it won't a ridiculous ending for Thorn Flower? From the cursory reading of the article, I think the male protagonist in A Man Called God doesn't end with the woman he loves but he doesn't die, so that's "good" kekeke. 
I am planning to watch A Man Called God when I have the time.. ^^ 

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I think I just want Ji Min to get her come upins...but in the end the bad guys will all get what is coming and that generally means they will loose everything and they will kneel before Jennifer. The jerk of ex-boyfriend will come to learn the truth and feels guilty, but then regrets once he learns of his wife been cheating and his own daughter is not his! This show has sooo much potential just pray that this doesn't have anyone from Glass mask near or around it! because if  not prepare yourself for unicorns and zombies (translation: Crap that doesn't add up or even humanly possible).

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I watched A Man Called God. The ending was... ok.. sorta implausible because well.. I won't say since others might watch it. Might be my prejudice because I like the lead actor better in historical dramas. He is really good in those. His only modern one I've really liked was Fermentation Family. That was a good story and the images on screen, location, food, were very pretty. Watch Fermentation Family instead.. heee..

I didn't think Yellow Boots ended that badly. I loved seeing the baddie get dragged off at the end. Glass Mask is another story. I think everyone who saw it hated it. I've never heard anyone say they liked it. No one.


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So I've been reading all of your comments and I am really REALLY appreciating some of the comments about some of the plot-points, because I am not Korean and I do not understand it very well - only few words, because I watch a lot of k-drama. I am watching Thorn Flower without the subtitles (pray for me), and I didn't know that Se Mi had a son, I only thought that the kid thought it was his mother, but thanks for clearing that out. I don't know - I just don't like the thought of the femme fetale having a kid. This drama is really getting more and more fascinating as the episodes progress. I have to say that this drama is really messed up beyond repair most of it, really. Hyuk Min's family is so destructive, it's insane. Now I may seem a little crazy, but I totally like Hyuk Min, now I don't mean that in real life I enjoy when people almost rape other women/men and they're basically insane/evil. Am I the only one that truly believes Hyuk Min loves "Jennifer" in his own little (maybe sick) way? This isn't like with the other pregnant woman (who I don't have any sympathy with whatsoever)  I really want Hyuk Min to kneel before Jennifer and ask for forgiveness, I don't think Jennifer will ever forgive anyone, maybe the ex .. the ending in Angel's Temptation is a good one, a bittersweet ending would be nice. I also want to point out that I think Ji Min REALLY resembles her brother with the temper, haha. It can get annoying. Since I don't understand Korean, I mostly understand the drama by expressions/bodyact/few words etc. but I want you guys to clear some stuff out with me. What is the deal between Jennifer and the prosecutor? I mean, I know about the almost-marriage and all that. I've watched the latest episodes, but I get the vibe that the prosecutor is kind of scared/fascinated by her? Am I wrong? What are his thought upon her? 
Sorry for making such a long post, but I really love this drama, and I made this account on this very day because I really wanted to communicate with other Thorn Flower enthusiasts! This drama is so underrated, and the actors are excellent. I only knew the evil mother's actress, not anyone else. 

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Also some juicy pictures for you guys to enjoy. You may have seen them, but yeah .. you are welcome. displaypicture?imageid=5221480&large=1displaypicture?imageid=5221473&large=1displaypicture?imageid=5221469&large=1
displaypicture?imageid=5221481&large=1

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elegance1 said: So I've been reading all of your comments and I am really REALLY appreciating some of the comments about some of the plot-points, because I am not Korean and I do not understand it very well - only few words, because I watch a lot of k-drama. I am watching Thorn Flower without the subtitles (pray for me), and I didn't know that Se Mi had a son, I only thought that the kid thought it was his mother, but thanks for clearing that out. I don't know - I just don't like the thought of the femme fetale having a kid. This drama is really getting more and more fascinating as the episodes progress. I have to say that this drama is really messed up beyond repair most of it, really. Hyuk Min's family is so destructive, it's insane. Now I may seem a little crazy, but I totally like Hyuk Min, now I don't mean that in real life I enjoy when people almost rape other women/men and they're basically insane/evil. Am I the only one that truly believes Hyuk Min loves "Jennifer" in his own little (maybe sick) way? This isn't like with the other pregnant woman (who I don't have any sympathy with whatsoever)  I really want Hyuk Min to kneel before Jennifer and ask for forgiveness, I don't think Jennifer will ever forgive anyone, maybe the ex .. the ending in Angel's Temptation is a good one, a bittersweet ending would be nice. I also want to point out that I think Ji Min REALLY resembles her brother with the temper, haha. It can get annoying. Since I don't understand Korean, I mostly understand the drama by expressions/bodyact/few words etc. but I want you guys to clear some stuff out with me. What is the deal between Jennifer and the prosecutor? I mean, I know about the almost-marriage and all that. I've watched the latest episodes, but I get the vibe that the prosecutor is kind of scared/fascinated by her? Am I wrong? What are his thought upon her? 
Sorry for making such a long post, but I really love this drama, and I made this account on this very day because I really wanted to communicate with other Thorn Flower enthusiasts! This drama is so underrated, and the actors are excellent. I only knew the evil mother's actress, not anyone else. 

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Hi @elegance1
You're just like me. I'm also piecing it together, as I go along, with the help of people here. I'm not 100% sure what the deal w the prosecutor is either and would also appreciate some help with that. I feel how you feel. I think he sees her as a bit of a puzzle judging by the way he looks at her sometimes. But again, that's me reading body language and the few Korean words I know.

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atomickitty

said:

Hi @elegance1
You're just like me. I'm also piecing it together, as I go along, with the help of people here. I'm not 100% sure what the deal w the prosecutor is either and would also appreciate some help with that. I feel how you feel. I think he sees her as a bit of a puzzle judging by the way he looks at her sometimes. But again, that's me reading body language and the few Korean words I know.

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On issues like Se Mi/Jennifer having a child, I really would advise anyone who doesn't understand Korean fairly well to watch the early episodes with the subs that are now available, though they're coming at a painfully slow rate.

Those subs are nowhere near as good as the original Korean writing deserves, and a lot of nuances are getting lost in them, but then that tends to be the way with subs,  And there are miscellaneous oddities like translating the word which should be "driver" or "chauffeur" in this context as "manager", so that at one point JJ supposedly tells Ji Min to "call her manager" if she wants to go out drinking. That sounds like he's suggesting she should go out on the town with her agent, when in fact all he's telling her is not to drive herself home if she is going to be drinking.

But the subs do make plain enough things it really is vital to know. Not just that Se Mi gave birth while in a coma, but that when she came round and her first question was what had become of her child, Nam Joon and Seon Yeong lied to her that the baby had been stilborn, with Seon Yeong compounding the deception, for reasons that still baffle me, by telling her that the baby was a girl, as pretty as Se Mi herself. Then later, again in episodes already subbed, we find Jennifer, on her return seven years on, being introduced to the boy that Seon Yeong claims is her own illegitimate child, whom she left for adoption in the States, but then thought better of it and reclaimed him so she could raise him herself. A very large part of Jennifer's behaviour from than on draws on her delusion that her own daughter is dead, but that she might have been somewhat like the child she thinks is JJ's daughter with Ji Min. That's why the business with the coffee and the snakes pains her so much: it's as if she's watching her own child being turned to the bad thanks to her intervention into that family.

I don't think the subs have yet reached the next important juncture in this strand, where Nam Joon and Seon Yeong agree that they must reveal the truth to Jennifer and let her have her child back (partly because Nam Joon has concluded that's the only way to deter her from her scheme of marrying Hyeok Min) but, moments before Seon Yeong was to make that revelation, the attempt to murder her results in the head injury to the boy which has left him mentally impaired, meaning that Seon Yeong feels she simply now can't inflict the blow on Jennifer that the belated revelation of  truth would bring and that she must continue to raise the boy herself, at least until a day comes when he is once more capable of telling one woman from another and knowing that only one of them is his real "Mommy".

But this is one of several major issues the writer has planted into the plot, currently apparently in the background, but in fact shaping a lot of Jennifer's decisions and emotions in the foreground (such as her attitude to Je Min's daughter and her bringing the younger son of the family together with his biological mother). On more than one occasion, Nam Joon tries to persuade Jennifer that joining Hyeok Min's family would ruin her life, and contrasts her schemes with his own, which he stresses are not self-destructive as hers seem to be: his aim, and his aunt's, is simply to rehabilitate his father's good name and see those responsible for his death punished, after which he intends to get on with life for and with his family. But she replies that things are different for her. She no longer has any family at all, and so has nothing whatever to live for except pure vengeance, and she doesn't care if pursuit of that vengeance brings misery upon herself as well as her victims. At which points Nam Joon keeps a guilty silence rather than tell her that she does indeed have a family and someone else to live and care for.

We wonder just how Jennifer will react when she discovers, as she eventually must, that the two people she has most relied on have deceived her for so long on such a fundamental matter. And on top of all that, there's the hint thrown into the mix, but in this case visible only to the viewers, not to any of the (surviving) main characters, that there's a chance Se Mi/Jennifer may have the same biological father as Hyeok Min and Je Min, which would of course be a massive spanner flung into her vengeance schemes. Think of how a parallel discovery about true parentage wrecks the vengeance plans of the main characters in Bad Guy and Five Fingers. If the writer doesn't have some such crippling revelation in store for her down the line, it's hard to see why the motif of her mother being raped by her employer (and staying silent about it until just before her death) was introduced into the plot at all.

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Just a few pointers from today's ep 54 for those of you valiantly trying to stay on the leading edge of this drama on the visuals alone... Obviously, this is a no-go area for anyone wanting to avoid spoilers.

The hostile takeover of Jennifer's "parents'" company by a hotel chain not interested in Korean-American joint ventures means that her value to the President's company falls to zero. In fact, she becomes a liability, because news that the joint venture is off causes the Taekang stock price to plunge, calling for desperate measures.

Those desperate measures evil Mom immediately puts in hand, sucking up to Soo Ji's mother (on whom she'd declared "outright war" just one episode earlier, before forbidding Soo Ji ever to come to the house again) and proposing that the wedding of Soo Ji and Hyeok Min should be announced immediately and carried out as soon as possible so as to reassure the markets that Taekang has the financial backing of Soo Ji's family firm.

Soo Ji's mother is anything but keen. She has never liked Hyeok Min in the first place, and his callous abandonment of her pregnant daughter in favor of Jennifer is still unforgivable in her eyes. She sends Soo Ji  round to the Kang mansion, not to be reconciled to Hyeok Min, but to observe at first hand the chaos and panic she imagines must be reigning there and report back to her. And she takes a tough stance with evil Mom, refusing to agree to the speedy wedding proposals and saying that before she will even consider helping out the Taekang group by some means short of handing over her daughter, they must withdraw the charges against Nam Joon and ensure his release.

But to her dismay, she finds that her daughter sees this as a golden opportunity to get her fiancé back and is all in favor of a speedy wedding. She assures her mother that she's never stopped loving Hyeok Min and that apart from that, she wants to marry him for her baby's sake. She doesn't care about her future mother-in-law's obviously cynical switch of allegiance back to her, saying that it's her future father-in-law that matters, and that he's always been on her side all along.

However, Hyeok Min is head-over-heels in (his notion of) love with Jennifer, and he declares he'll do anything to keep her, even though she's now no longer of any financial value. The teaser for tomorrow suggests that that "anything" includes an even more rushed wedding ceremony than his mother has in mind, but not to the bride his mother intends...

There's a lot of other things in the episode, of course, but those are the main things that I imagine would have me the most puzzled if I didn't understand Korean.

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@baduy - Thank you, I really appreciate it. It really sucks that I can't find this drama subtitled fast like other dramas and I hate when I don't understand what's going on in a lot of the scenes, it's frustrating. You are really helping me out here, thanks. 

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Here's my translation of the text preview for tomorrow's episode (55) which jtbc has just put up. Not much we couldn't have guessed anyway, except maybe for the first part, which shows just how intense Hyeok Min's obsession with Jennifer is, since he is apparently ready to turn down the offer of immediate total control of the company (and risk disinheritance instead, as he's already said he will in today's episode) in order to hold on to her.

His father tells Hyuk Min, in Jennifer's presence, that he will hand the company presidency over to him if he shows up for his wedding to Soo Ji the following month and sends Jennifer back to the States. But Hyeok Min refuses to send Jennifer  away.

In response to Soo Ji's mother's request, the Taekang Group drops the charges against Nam Joon, and he is released from custody. On account of Soo Ji, her mother is unable to carry on her fight against Taekang openly, but she asks Nam Joon to continue working for her.

Hyeok Min decides he will marry Jennifer immediately, despite his family's opposition, whereupon Nam Joon tries to stop her embarking on that marriage.



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Thank you so much @baduy for the translation and your insights into the last few episodes. This only shows me how much detail I'm missing watching it without subs. I'm tempted to stop watching until subs are available. I have a useless account with Mvibo and I believe they are up to episode 17 now. Maybe they'll sub it all before 2014? Who knows?

I really don't want her to marry Hyuk Min. I understand marrying him makes sense when you look at it only from a revenge standpoint, but I would really like her to have a life after all this is done. The existence of her son gives me hope that she will have a life post revenge. I wonder if Nam Joon will be able to stop it.

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Episode 55 and the next episode 56 makes me feel as though she's no longer getting revenge but torturing herself.
I started feeling bad for Nam Joon but then I now think he deserves it for telling her her child died. If she knew her child was alive, she would have tried to get revenge while preserving some of herself. or something. I don't know. I should stop watching till subs exist...

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baduy said:
On issues like Se Mi/Jennifer having a child, I really would advise anyone who doesn't understand Korean fairly well to watch the early episodes with the subs that are now available, though they're coming at a painfully slow rate.

A very large part of Jennifer's behaviour from than on draws on her delusion that her own daughter is dead, but that she might have been somewhat like the child she thinks is JJ's daughter with Ji Min. That's why the business with the coffee and the snakes pains her so much: it's as if she's watching her own child being turned to the bad thanks to her intervention into that family.

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Hi @ena_teo
I think it's not just Jennifer that Hyun Seok calls Oma. I think it's a symptom of the accident that he calls everyone Oma.
As to Hyuk Min's father raping Jennifer's mother, is it possible that Ji Min is Jennifer's half sister?

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It would be so sick if he were, I really hope that Hyuk Min isn't related to Se Mi in any way - that's just plain wrong. This family has a history of raping. 

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