[Drama 2013] Thorn Flower / Spine Flower 가시꽃

[Guest atomickitty]

@d0137
I'm guessing there are other ways to get episodes but I watched the first 4 episodes of Orphan Black on the channel BBC America. My family has On Demand and I can watch all the episodes that have showed so far this season.

http://www.twcondemand.com/tv/entertainment-on-demand/bbc-america

[elegance1]

baduy said: elegance1 said: It was so satisfying to watch Hyeok Min getting punched straight to the face! Finally, some one stands up to that over-masculine man.

[Auntie Mame]

elegance1 said: baduy said: elegance1 said: It was so satisfying to watch Hyeok Min getting punched straight to the face! Finally, some one stands up to that over-masculine man.

[baduy]

No episode will be shown today (Monday). (Awards show instead. YAWN).
Ep 81 will air at the usual time tomorrow (Tuesday)

[Winetu]

Where can I watch this drama?

[baduy]

Winetu said: Where can I watch this drama?

[Guest d0137]

@atomickitty on "Orphan Black"Thanks checked it out, it is great, love the 'mystery'!! I watched the first 3 episodes and its great, loved it! I am already officially "hooked" ... Paul is a very nice eye candy too , specially shirtless :x!
@baduyhumm they are keeping us curious and frustrated as always errr... perhaps writer had few new ideas and need to re-write script from episode 82 after checking forums, that would be a nice one .... Text preview for ep 81. as you mentioned before whoever writes them is "still in hiding" 
Lets us hope by the end of this week the revenge progresses ... hope keeps me on the check for developments but this is worrying as this was the same with the other two dramas i stop watching and which we all know the names..
@Auntie Mame & Elegance1Agree, from all dramas i have watched so far it does seam like a 'tradition'  to invoke these out-dated traditions whenever it is convenient in fights or relationships  ...but i do like to think that Koreans are more modern, like:  drama is drama, reality is something else 

[baduy]

jtbc have finally released the text preview for ep 81.

It turns out that the preview writer was indeed hiding away in a closet to escape furious viewers, but he picked the same closet where the one-toed subbing sloth was also esconced in an attempt to delay subtitle production even further. This was last Friday, and moments after creeping into the cupboard, he accidentally trod on the one-toed subbing sloth's one toe. However, sloths being sloths, the injured party didn't get round to letting out a yell of pain till four days later, whereupon the whereabouts of the preview writer were revealed and he had to get on with the job. Unfortunately, four days in a dark closet with a slow-reacting mammal hasn't done much for his abilities to write comprehensible Korean. But here's my best shot at a translation.

Hyeok Min wants to evict Seong Min from the house, and tries threatening Jin Yang Hee as a means of doing so.

Hyeok Min's mother tells Jennifer that the company's difficulties are all down to her and orders her to quit, but Jennifer puts up a fight and says she will live and die with Hyeok Min.

Nam Joon goes to see Je Joon and points out that Seo Won is attempting to break up his family. He offers to help him pay Seo Won back.


Incidentally, for those wanting to watch with c-subs, youku have now advanced to ep77. And mbvibo have tiptoed on to English subs for ep 26. However, the mvibo homepage banners are still virus-ridden, and once again I strongly advise against going near the home page at that site.

If you have a subscription, you can go straight to this drama's listing page at
http://www.mvibo.com/player.php?vid=1256&eid=35768
and thus avoid the perilous home page. You can still log in to your account from the listing page via the buttons at top right.

[baduy]

That preview, late in coming though it was, should be quite helpful to people needing to know what's being said in the key scenes of today's episode (81)

I'll just fill in a few things that won't be so obvious without some knowledge of Korean, and leave other things to the preview plus the visuals.

Hyeok Min orders his brother to leave the house for good and take his mother with him, but Seong Min replies that he will stay as long as his father needs him, and that if he had to go away, then he would take his father with him. But since that's clearly not feasible, he has no intention of moving out.

Hyeok Min upbraids his father for bringing Yang Hee to the house and accuses the 'gang of three' (=the President, Yang Hee and Seong Min) of plotting to run away, to drive his mother to distraction and abandon the troubled company. He takes Jennifer aside and suggests she should stop spending so much time in the house and instead devote herself to activities at the company. He reminds her how adamantly his father was opposed to their marriage, in says that in the light of that it makes no sense for her to be giving him such devoted care. But she protests that she intends to be a dutiful daughter-in-law to the extent of her ability, and reminds Hyeok Min that they are talking about his father, and since she loves him so much she wants to do her very best for his father too.

At the company, Hyeok Min is ordering ex-detective Seo to track down Yang Hee and take her captive, then make use of Seong Min to frighten her away for good.

Alone with the President, Jennifer is gleefully telling him that Taekang is on the rocks. (The four-character idiom she actually uses is 풍전등화 [風前燈火], literally, a lantern about to be extinguished by a gust of wind) To cheer him up still further, she tells him that Je Joon has found out that Ye Jin isn't his daughter, so there's going to be trouble for the family on that score too. Not to mention the supposed fact that she, his supposed daughter, is pregant with his son's child. A good job the President is already lying down, otherwise he would probably have taken another jibbering tumble to the floor, and there's a limit to how much unintentional black comedy we can take.

The meeting between Nam Joon and Je Joon is more or less as indicated in the preview, but what Nam Joon says (based on the information from the spy planted in Seo Won's office) explains for the first time the full story behind Seo Won's father's abrupt departure to the USA for ostensibly medical reasons and why that trip is likely to turn into a lifetime's exile. It seems that it was his own son who deliberately set up his father by selectively exposing his misdeeds (though his father of course has no idea as yet that his son betrayed him in this way). Nam Joon says that his motivation was twofold. First simmering resentment at the way his father has always treated him, and secondly the specific fact that his father was adamantly opposed to his liaison with Ji Min (for political reasons, of course, not ethical ones) and would never have allowed his son to marry a divorced woman with a child. Nam Joon tells all this to Je Joon to emphasize what a despicable person Seo Won is and to encourage him to want to punish him. If Je Joon feels inclined to move against the man who has tried to ruin his family life, Nam Joon concludes, he can provide him with the means to do so. Je Joon, though originally not the avenging kind, says he'll think about it.

Evil Mom makes a point of telling Soo Ji in Jennifer's hearing that Taekang is in great financial trouble, and that it's all because of Jennifer. If only Jennifer hadn't stolen Hyeok Min away then led him into the disastrous project to team up with the Mason Group, Soo Ji would have been happily married to Hyeok Min by now and the company would have had no financial problems. Soo Ji follows that up by telling Jennifer that, starting from tomorrow, she intends to take over her domestic duties and instructs Jennifer to take her mother-in-law the tea she'd been ordered to make, asserting her position as de facto senior daughter-in-law in Jennifer's stead. As noted in the preview, Evil Mom repeats to Jennifer herself what she already heard, namely that she is the sole cause of all the troubles in the family and the company, and if she had any decency she would just leave and make way for Soo Ji and her mother's financial backing. But Jennifer, as Soo Ji comes back in from the kitchen and stands listening, replies that she apparently has more faith in Hyeok Min that his own mother has. She's sure he can triumph over these difficulties and she isn't planning to make more problems for him by walking out. At which his mother claims that by doing that she's just encouraging him to persist in his own ruin, and if she really loves him as she claims to do surely she wouldn't want to witness that. But Jennifer counters that if his mother's poor opinion of her son's capabilities proves to be right, then as his wife she will stand by him to the end and if he goes down, go down with him. Jennifer is walking away leaving Evil Mom dumbfounded at that remark when Soo Ji holds her back, telling her that if she's so keen on perishing she should go die alone and not drag "my child's father" down with her. In that case, Jennifer replies, repeating Soo Ji's own phrase back at her, if Soo Ji is so keen for her not to die alongside Hyoek Min, she'll make sure she stays alive with  "my child's father". Soo Ji has no reply to that one, so she repeats what she already indicated in the kitchen, this time in Evil Mom's full hearing, and with her wholeheatedly expressed approval. From tomorrow, Jennifer should stay out of the house in the daytime, because she was no longer needed. Soo Ji will be acting as daughter-in-law from now on, prior to taking over that rightful role once Hyeok Min sees sense.

Having been sent away from the bakery by Nam Hee's Granny (and, with less conviction, by her mother as well) Seong Min has come to try to talk Nam Joon round, pleading that it's Nam Hee's future and happiness that's at stake as well as his own, and that he's confident he can make Nam Hee happy in a way no-one else could. But Nam Joon remains adamant. The obstacle is what Seong Min's father did to Nam Hee's and Nam Joon's father. After that, nothing on earth can make a usion between their families possible and Seong Min must resign himself to that and help Nam Hee to accept it too, if he can.

Hyeok Min calls his mother to tell her that Yang Hee and Seong Min had tried to get the President away from the house. She tears a strip off Jennifer for not telling her about Yang Hee's visit and her alleged attempt to aid the President's escape from the house. But Jennifer says that Hyeok Min got it all wrong. Yang Hee had decided to leave for America for good and had merely come to pay him a final farewell visit. And what Hyeok Min had misconstrued as an escape attempt was just Seong Min taking his father out for a brief breath of fresh air. Evil Mom is furious at her defending Seong Min and Yang Hee in this way and asks whose side is she really on. "On your side, of course, Mother-in-law," says Jennifer with her sickliest of smiles.

But Evil Mom sends her away so she can harangue her husband with no restraint. She vents her fury at him for planning having sent Yang Hee an SOS message in the hope of escaping from her and taking Seong Min with him, and says that although she'll see that he still gets fed and watered while he's living with them, she'll make sure that from now on he realizes what it's like to be totally lonely even when apparently surrounded by family. Jennifer, just outside the door [where else?] hears this with relish, but by the time Evil Mom comes back to the kitchen, she finds her unwanted daughter-in-law cheerfully offering her a coffee and letting the renewed accusations that she is the root of all the family's troubles bounce off her, though she's inwardly reflecting that having to address this woman who murdered her mother as "mother-in-law" is an ordeal that's driving her close to insanity. "Just what is it you want?" Evil Mom asks in exasperation. That's very simple. Jennifer coos back, with a mile-wide grin: she wants one thing and one thing only: to be able to live happily with her mother-in-law and husband.

Over at Yang Hee's secret apartment hideway, Seong Min is lying in his mother's lap, being all lovey dovey. He promises she need have no more fears because he's going to stay by her side, but not to the extent of moving in with her. He explains that his father is plainly very anxious about his situation in that house and that he's begged Seong Min not to leave him there unprotected. So he tells his mother what he told Hyeok Min in the first sequence, although in a very different tone, namely that he'll stay in that house for as long as his father needs him there.

Je Joon, still pondering what to do about Nam Joon's approach, goes to Ji Min's photoshoot, but on his way in he spots her with Seo Won, obviously still close, and beats a retreat, in the course of which he witnesses something else that sets him back, and for which the following scene prepares us.

Jennifer gets an excited call from Seon Yeong telling her that Eun Soek has suddenly started to recognize people properly and by name. She arranges to go to meet Seon Yeong with Eun Seok right away at a cafe and rushes out of the house, ignoring the demands from her mother-in-law for permission to leave and an explanation of where she's going, leaving Evil Mom wondering how this very un-daughter-in-law-like behavior squares with the devotion Jennifer was so profusely expressing a little earlier.

Eun Seok indeed does recognise Jennifer by name (her false Korean name that is, of course) but he determinedly still calls her Seo Hyeon Noona, even though Seon Yeong tells him that his is his real mother and from now on he has to get used to calling her that. Jennifer tearfully says that she's so delighted that he recognizes her properly for the first time he doesn't care what he calls her, but when she goes on to tell Eun Soek that very soon now he'll be able to come live with her, he breaks away from her hug and rushes to cling on to Seong Yeon instead. Accepting that things can't be rushed, Jennifer takes leave of her son and Seo Yeong, but as she watches the car drive away, who should come along and observe the scene but Je Joon, on his way back from his upset at the photoshoot.. who's been dispatched by his mother-in-law to find her errant daughter-in-law.

In a mini time-leap backwards, we see Evil Mom wondering where both Ji Min and Seong Min can have gotten to, when Je Joon arrives home, lost in thought about what he witnessed at the photoshoot. She promptly sends him out again on a mission to track down Jennifer and fetch her back.

The President starts insistently ringing the bell for attention, and Evil Mom, thinking that he's calling her bluff about leaving him entirely alone apart from basic care, is reluctant to respond. When she finally does go, grumbing bad-temperedly, to see what he wants, he tells her  "Seo Hyeon ( and we notice he's stopped trying to refer to her as Se Mi, wanting to avoid the ride with the guys in white coats that Jennifer warned him would be coming if he persisted in expressing that 'delusion') is my daughter." That certainly gives Evil Mom something to chew over for the next twenty four hours...


Yet again no text preview for ep 82. I guess that means we've got the guy really scared. The video preview is juicy enough. Ji Min and Seo Won spotting Jennifer and Je Joon together in what looks like the continuation of the sequence today  where Je Joon sees Jennifer with Eun Sook. Seo Won then informing Evil Mom that something's going on between Je Joon and Jennifer, and Evil Mom pouncing on that idea with delight and trying to sell it to Hyeok Min. A deliberate attempt to kill or injure Seong Min, doubtless a case of ex-detective Seo obeying orders to "use" Seong Min to  intimidate Yang Hee, with Seong Min telling someone, maybe Nam Joon, that if it hadn't been for Nam Hee's quick reaction and instant readiness to put herself in danger to save him, he might have been killed, Evil Mom apparently telling Hyeok Min that he has to put on a show of making up to Soo Ji to save the firm, then him warning Jennifer that that's what he's going to do, then him actually going down on his knees to Soo Ji.

[baduy]

Today again, the text preview for today (ep 82) went up only a couple of hours before the actual show, and it doesn't say anythjing that we couldn't get from the video teaser. But here it is anyway

In a car together, Ji Min and Seo Won spot Je Joon with Jennifer. Seo Won tells Hyeok Min's mother what they saw. When Jennifer gets back home, her mother-in-law yells at her, saying she must learn how to behave.

His mother tells Hyoek Min that in order to save the company he must go down on his knees to Soo Ji and beg her forgiveness. He initially refuses, but when his mother says that for the company's sake he has win Soo Ji's forgiveness, even if it means lying, he agrees to meet Soo Ji and make an insincere apology to her.

[baduy]

In their best traditions of keeping their paid-up subscribers unhappy, mvibo created a link for the stream of episode 82 yesterday, but apparently forgot to put the actual video file on their server. So if you switched browsers, reinstalled Windows, changed your broadband provider, or moved house to try to get past that infernal revolving circle, it didn't help. But they've fixed it now, so try again. Showboom subscribers were luckier, with ep 82 present and correct on the day of airing. On the c-subs front, things are moving again. Youku is now up to ep 79 and seems to be keeping a steady two or three episodes behind. This strengthens my suspicion that whatever Chinese station is airing this show has become a little out of synch with the original Korean showings for local reasons.
   
Episode 82 is one of those episodes that might seem easy enough to follow on the visuals alone, but there are some very important things in the dialogue that don't come across otherwise, so there's a lot to fill in.

   
Evil Mom scoffs at her husband's claim that Jennifer is his daughter, saying that he plainly really has lost his mind. "If she was your daughter, she couldn't be your daughter-in-law too". The President tries to respond that that's precisely his point, but she takes this as further confirmation that he's gone completely crazy and storms out of the room.    Having obviously watched a few Kdramas, the President tries banging his head against the headboard, since in the strange world of Kdrama pathology, the best cure for one head injury is generally another one, but he lacks the strength to do the necessary violence to himself.

We resume the other scene in the cliffhanger sequence of the previous episode, with Je Joon approaching Jennifer as the car drives off and explaining that their mother-in-law has sent him out to find her. But why, he asks, did she go out in such a rush and without permission to come see that child? She tells him a piece of the truth, that she's very fond of the boy and she's rushed out because she'd been told that he'd suddenly made unexpected progress and was able to recognize people and remember their names, including hers. He pretends to be satisfied with that, but as their conversation progresses it becomes plain that he knows that it's only part of the truth, and Jennifer herself senses that he knows more than she's telling or he's admitting. He says it's good news about Eun Soek, but then goes on to ask is she carrying on her search for "the" child. (There's no "the" in the Korean, but we need one in English, because he phrases his question in a way that allows him to avoid saying either "your" or "our",) She replies only with a dispassionate look, and he stumbles on with "The truth is... where I'm concerned, I've decided it's best to give up looking for him. Even if he was eventually found, after all this time... I'm not sure he'd want to know me."

By this point at the very latest, Jennifer is plainly aware that he knows full well that Eun Soek is the child in question. "You're quite right there," she tells him. "Even if the child is found, that will be absolutely no business of yours." But what sounds like cruelty on her part towards Je Joon is revealed as something rather different as she continues  "He may have found good people to care for him, and be happy and thriving somewhere. In his formative years, I couldn't be with him. If someone who'd never been part of his world suddenly showed up and started expecting him to call her 'Mommy'... that might just cause him still more hurt." We realize that she herself is beginning to wonder whether she really can and should reclaim Eun Seok or whether that would be putting her own wishes before the child's best interests. But it's also clear that, even if she's thinking of possibly giving up her own claim to parenthood, she's adamant that Je Joon has forfeited all such claims beyond recall, and she leaves him in no doubt of that. When Je Joon says he will regard his child as a precious thing lost and gone for good, she tells him that's the sensible approach. "Even if I do find the child, I've no intention whatever of sharing him with you."  "I understand," he replies. "If that's the way you want things to be... then where the child is concerned ... I will simply not exist." Jennifer says no more. Her expression shows that she sense the pain he's feeling as he says that, but she's determined not to let that soften her attitude to him, and she starts off walk ahead of him back to the house.

They are observed by Ji Min and Seo Won, and Seo Won at once scents something suspicious about the mood the two appear to be in. Ji Min pretends to think he's imagining things, but she's clearly having her own thoughts on the matter. Ji Min goes up to her room immediately, claiming she's too tired after the photoshoot to socialize, and Evil Mom asks for a word with Seo Won in private before he leaves. She's hoping to pick his brains on the financial crisis facing the company, but he takes the opportunity to renew his attack on Ji Min's marriage by reporting the atmosphere he observed between Jennifer and Je Joon and insinuating that the pair have a guilty secret to hide. Evil Mom is just taking that in when Jennifer is heard announcing her arrival with Je Joon. Je Joon demands to know what Seo Won is doing at the house, and Seo Won, who may well have glimpsed Je Joon arriving at the photoshoot but then leaving again, unctuously remarks that he just came to escort Ji Min home since the husband who might have been expected to look after her had failed to appear to collect her. but he can see now that that husband had someone else he preferred to be with. Evil Mom intervenes to prevent a row by ordering her son-in-law up to bed (again a Kdrama m-i-l's natural prerogative) whereupon Seo Won also takes his leave, no doubt correctly anticipating that Jennifer will be immediately plunged into the hot water he has so carefully prepared for her.

Evil Mom demands to know where Jennifer has been, but dismisses her answer, though it's true enough as far as it goes, as a mere pretext. She knows full well that she herself sent Je Joon to locate Jennifer, but she now suggests that Jennifer's absence was a cunning ruse in deliberate anticipation that Je Joon would be sent after her, thus giving them a chance to meet outside the house. We see that Seo Won has succeeded in raising her hopes that jealousy of Je Joon might be a way of getting Hyeok Min to turn aside from Jennifer, while at the same time getting Ji Min's husband out of his way as well. But Jennifer has seen that clearly enough. She challenges her mother-in-law straight out to say if she has suspicions about her and her brother-in-law. Evil Mom blusters that, never mind what she herself may suspect, it's plain that Ji Min has such suspicions. But Jennifer remarks that mother-in-law knows just as well as she does that any such evil-minded suspicions stem from Seo Won, and they both know what his motives for making Ji Won suspect her husband are. Floored by that, Evil Mom falls back on scolding Jennifer for misbehaving in public in a way that's not acceptable in Korea, another slight on her supposed "American" morals, and Jennifer is left reflecting that it would suit her mother-in-law very nicely if there really was something disreputable going on between her and Je Joon.

Ji Min is demanding to know what is was that so palpably hung in the air between her husband and Jennifer when she saw them together earlier. He denies that there was anything special about their meeting. He'd been sent to find Jennifer, and as he accompanied her home they just talked a little about how Ye Jin was getting on and things like that. Ji Min angrily retorts that he must think she's a complete fool. Anyone with any sense could see that they'd been talking about something much deeper than that. Well, Je Joon concedes, talking about Ye Jin naturally led to Jennifer thinking about the son of her friend who's the same age and who was so badly disabled as the consequence of a hit and run. She's very fond of the boy and gets understandably upset when she thinks about his condition, and so naturally Je Joon was showing her some sympathy. But that cuts no ice with Ji Min either. "You're really fond of that woman, aren't you?" she challenges him. He wearily pleads her not to start on that topic again, but she takes no notice and accuses him of being really weird and of still thinking of Se Mi. He cuts her short, reminding her that they'd agreed never to talk about Se Mi again. She protests that she just can make him out, and he replies that if she thinks there's something he's not telling her, then if she'll just ask him straight out what it is, he'll promise her straight answers. Just what is it she finds so weird about him? She hesitatates, then takes the plunge. "Ye Jin .... You know that Ye Jin .... that she isn't your daughter... You know that, don't you?" Je Joon isn't thrown. "Ye Jin is my daughter. I've always thought of her as my daughter from the very start, and I always will think of the that way, no matter what." Ji Min's reacts angrily, as if she were rebuking him for a fault of his rather than one of her own. "So, why did you let me get away with it? I kept that terrible secret from you, but you let things be. My mother, by father, Hyeok Min, all of us deceived you, so why are you taking it lying down?" "Because I love Ye Jin", he riposts. "And because, even though you lied to me and tricked me into marriage... you're my wife. And because now I've come to love you, too." Ji Min is now more uncertain than ever. "But how can that be? I've treated you so badly. It's like you and I are creatures that belong to two different worlds." He comes towards her and hugs her "It's alright. It's going to work out fine. I'll make sure it does. Trust me on that. Everything will be fine."


Jennifer is reading news reports in the Internet predicting imminent bankruptcy for Taekang due to rocketing deficits and overdue loans being called in when Hyoek Min comes into her room, putting on a carefree air (though we have earlier seen him taking his desperate anxiety about the company's position out on both the chief accountant and ex-detective Seo). He surmises that the hassle she's getting from his mother is getting to her, and advises her to spend her days at the company instead of around the house, but no sooner has he attempted to apologize on his mother's behalf than the evil apparition herself barges in, furious with Hyeok Min for perpetrating yet another heinous American-style sacrilege by going straight to Jennifer's room instead of first going to greet his mother, as every Korean son should on entering the house. She's especially miffed since she has an expensive tonic ready for him to drink. And she's also made him a special dinner, but before she can serve it up, he asks first where Seong Min is, only to be told he hasn't come home yet, and then how his father, hearing that he really does appear to be deranged, since he's now insisting Jennifer is his daughter, which is even crazier than his earlier claim that she's Se Mi. It looks like they really will have to send him to an asylum, Hyeok Min declares.

Jennifer, as usual, overhears this and rushes to put the frighteners on the President. She warns him that he has no chance of making his wife believe that she is his daughter, and if he keeps trying he'll just play into her hands by proving he's delusional. Before she can say any more, Hyeok Min comes in too to castigate his father for talking nonsense about Jennifer being his daughter. Jennifer pretends to be surprised by this. She explains that his father did say something of the kind to her, but she's astonished to hear that he's now saying it to his wife as well, which really does suggest he's crazy. And there's more, she adds confidentially. He actually told her his life was in danger if he stayed there and asked her help in escaping. Hyeok Min tells his father that he can forget any hopes of running away with that woman. If he carries on in this vein, the only place he'll go it to a mental hospital. At which he leaves Jennifer alone with his father again, and she carries on her threats to him. The "fact" that she is his daughter must remain their secret, she says. If he did try to make his wife believe it, he'd have to confess what he did to Se Mi's mother, and who knows what that revelation might make his wife do to him.

Je Joon has gone to talk to his mother-in-law in the President's study, apparently on his own initiative. He surprises her by telling her that he thinks he may be able to help the company out of its predicament by acting as an intermediary betweem Taekang and Jinkung. His mother-in-law scoffs initially at the idea, but her attitude changes when he explains that Ji Soo's mother seems to respect the work he did as a film director and that might make her prepared to listen to an approach from him. [This is a reminder that Soo Jin's mother is a Genuinely Cultured Person, who unlike Je Joon's inlaws appreciated the qualities of his commercially unsuccessful movies. But we knew that already. After all, she has piped classical Muzak in her living room. Prokoviev to boot. You don't get more Genuinely Cultured than that in Kdrama land.] He asks his mother-in-law to accept his offer as his way of doing something for the family, and we surmise that he's doing this in an attempt to demonstrate to Ji Min that the suspicions Seo Won stirred up in her about him seeking revenge are groundless.

But at the same time, over in the Blue Moon, Name  Joon is warning Si Joo to be on her guard against a desperate move he's expecting Taekang to make. He explains that he anticipates that Hyeok Min's mother may pressure him into pretending to be overcome by guilt towards Si Joo, come to beg her forgiveness and promise to abandon Jennifer, but that he would only be playing for time until he can find another way out of the firm's plight. Si Joo laughs at the idea. "That guy would die rather than do that", she says confidently. But Nam Joon says he's not so sure. After all these years, Soo Ji must know Hyeok Min well enough to suspect that if the chips were down, he wouldn't really be prepared to lose all he has for the sake of a mere woman. The truth of that strikes home to Soo Ji, and she obviously sees the sense behind Nam Joon's prediction.

Meanwhile, his mother has summoned Hyeok Min and is persuading him to put on an act of abject repentance to save the company from immanent bankruptcy, adding that Je Joon has volunteered his good offices to get a deal under way if Hyeok Min is prepared to beg Soo Ji for forgiveness and assistance. He dismisses the idea at first, but she reminds him of everything she has done for him and asks can't he take this temporary humiliation on himself out of gratitude to his mother's sacrifices on his behalf, if for no other reason. He responds that even if he sees the pragmatic value of humbling himself in this way, there's no way he could apologize to Soo Ji and mean it. His mother replies that there's no need for him to mean it. All that matters is that Soo Ji and her mother should think he means it for as long as it takes to get Taekang off the hook, and having Je Joon to vouch for him will help persuade them of that. But what will Jennifer think if he does that, he asks. There's no need for her to know, his mother replies. It can all be done behind her back. That's nonsense, Hyeok Min points out, Apart from anything else Soo Ji would be the first to want to rub Jennifer's nose in her apparent triumph, and he won't do anything that could be so hurtful to Jennifer. But that can't be helped, his mother insists. The future of the entire family is at stake, and that has to come before his attachment to Jennifer. He needs to act now and try talking Jennifer round later. In an intercut, we see Hyeok Min being told by ex-detective Seo earlier in the day that the situation is desperate and that the only hope left lies in making one final attempt to win back the support of Jinkung. Back in the present, we see that Hyeok Min has agreed to his mother's plan.

It's the next day and Hyeok Min goes to talk to Jennifer before leaving for work. He tells her that things may be about to happen that will test her trust in him, but that if she just holds on to her belief in him and their relationship, everything will become clear in the end and she'll understand that he has no choice but to act as he is about to do. He assures her that he'd die before abandoning her. "I love you more than my own life. You must never forget that."

At Jinkung HQ, Je Joon has arrived to talk to Soo Ji's mother, bringing the message that Hyeok Min has decided to return to Soo Ji, if she can find it in herself to forgive him. Another intercut to shortly before shows Hyeok Min revealing that he has promised his mother to go back to Soo Ji, and asking Je Joon to act as intermediary in the hope of arranging meeting between himself and Soo Ji. Soo Ji's mother says that on Hyeok's past record, and in the light of his company's precarious situation, she doesn't see how his his sincerity could be confirmed. Je Joon replies that the only way to do that is for Hyeok Min to meet Soo Ji in person and try to convince her that he's sincere. If Hyoek Min can succeed in that, Je Joon says hopes her mother won't stand in the way of a reconciliation between the couple.

We cut to Seong Min, Nam Hee and the execution of Hyeok Min's orders to ex-detective Seo to scare Yang Mee away. The motorbike "accident" works as planned. No sooner have Seong Min and Nam Hee arrived, badly shaken, at Yang Hee's apartment than ex-detective Seo calls to say that what just happened was merely a warning. Unless Yang Hee agrees immediately to leave Korea for good and without letting anyone know where she's gone, much worse will happen to her son. Without telling Seong Min, Yang Hee agrees to comply, and Seo ensures that she gets on the plane. [Though of course we know that in the Kdrama version of Incheon airport there's a secret door that lets passengers who have already been cleared through security pass back from airside to landside with no questions asked if the needs of the plot demand it: maybe her departure isn't all it seems...]

Intercut into that sequence, we see the meeting between Soo Ji and Hyeok Min. He assures her that ever since he discovered she was pregnant, her situation and his betrayal of her has been preying on his mind. So much so that he would have come back to her sooner, but then he discovered that Jennifer was pregnant too, and it would have been inhuman of him to abandon her right away . "Except that you aren't human, are you?" she responds bitterly. That one floors him for a moment, and he has to admit that he's utterly despicable and can't even begin to justify his treatment of her. All he can do is admit he was wrong and ask her forgiveness. We see that this makes Soo Ji start to waver, but her intelligence wins out over her impulses and she says she isn't fooled. She knows it's the thought of her mother's money and the desperate plight of Taekang that's driven him back to her. At which his temper flares up and he admits that of course this is about money and the survival of Taekang, but then he gets a grip again and assures her that's not the underlying reason. He's been lying awake all night thinking about how he betrayed her and he decided he had to try to ask her forgiveness and make a new start. Soo Ji is back in control of herself and says coldly and firmly that if that's what he wants, he'll have to go down on his knees right there and beg. And beg not to her, but to their unborn baby. He balks as that, and she makes to leave in disgust, but he panics at that possiblity and says he will do as she says, for his baby's sake. He vows to the unborn child that he will live an upright life from now on and never again go astray.

Je Joon gets a call from Soo Ji as she leaves the café, telling him to give her mother the go-ahead to intervene and rescue Taekang.  "So have you decided to forgive Hyeok Min?" he asks her. "No," she says, "I couldn't do that even to save my life. But I want to stop Taekang from going under" We surmise that she is thinking, as she did on several earlier occasions, of the fate of the the thousands of people who will lose their livelihoods if the group collapses, and she is acting out of concern for them. Which implies that her real perspective may be as short-term as Hyeok Min's is, though more nobly motivated, and that she has seen through his act clearly enough.

Soo Ji has gone straight to the house, where she's glad to find Jennifer alone. Without further ado, she plays him the recording she's secretly made of Hyeok Min's apology and his vow to do the right thing from now on, then asks her "You know what that means, don't you?"  We get a distinct sense that getting this recording and being able to humiliate Jennifer with it was Soo Ji's main aim and that she knows what Hyeok Min actually said was worthless in itself.

An hour till today's episode airs, and still no text preview.

[Guest d0137]

Did i read right? Je Joon just said he came to love Ji Mi? Dead man walking is loving the person responsible for his current state? errr... even if he is not the revenge type for god sake... he might have fallen for her the moment he saw Jennifer and became deeper in love when found out the family lied to him...hummm must have been as till before Jennifer appeared he was still wearing the ring and holding into her belongings... really don't get it!! At least he got the message about the son...
It is sad to see Se Mi being aware of where she stands as regards to her son. If they hadn't lied to her this wouldn't be happening!!
Although i don't like Soo Ji finally she seams to finally be doing something to get back at Hyeok Min! She kind of became an Evil angel...
Frustrating to watch all sinners get away with things all the time ...

[Triton823]

How do one fight evil? Evil against evil? No you fight goodness with evil. The thing about Ji Min is vanity what is sad is that she copped out to everything!? Which I find freaking hilarious!

As far as his son is concerned he needs to simply realize that there is no way in hell he's going to get those missing years with him or se min back. That his happiness and life was destroyed by his now wife.

I think Je Joon has an ulterior plan besides protecting his "daughter" which I find unfathomable that he would still stick to her after learning she was not his daughter. (In defense of this statement...in all of kdramaland I've never seen a husband stick to a wife if the kid is no theirs...just saying) unless he actually loves that heartless creature which I don't think he does since he discovered the truth.

Se Min's realization where she stands with her son is truly sad, but I believe and I could be wrong on this one...I do not see how she can get her kid back after all this time he only knows SY as his mom. What SY and NJ has done is by far the worse thing imaginable. Yes I hate the evil family, but I detest these two creatures the worse...they are not even human in my opinion.

At this point, I'd like for Se Min and Je Joon to be a peace, not together per say, but being able to be with their son and have a happy ending, but right now I'm seeing everyone burning in flames.

[Guest d0137]

@Triton823Agree with you that it is a bit too strange he decided to stick to the obnoxious wife, not to mention family (minus Seong Min) because his fake daughter takes after her family.. I just had a thought in the end he will make a film about his and Se Mi sad love story *- and could in fact be using Ganny's house for a setting lol... 
 Jennifer situation is so sad it enrages me just to think of it. I understand she has to be civil when she is with them for the kid's sake but errrrrrrr it is really difficult to watch!!I hope the kid recovers back to his bright and lively self and accepts Jennifer as his mother.Obviously  for his sake she can't severe his relation with the two liars  ... 
It is all frustrating, everyone has a connection and revenge or payback will become almost impossible to be achieved with full satisfaction to us viewers ... how can this not be frustrating to the end??? Yes right now i am really not seeing anyone happy in this drama because the happiest ones are also miserable ( Seon Ming and Nam Hee and also Eun Soek)...In the beginning everyone else besides Je Joon & Se Mi (with parents) was already miserable and now they have just contaminated the happy ones with their wraths!! No hope on site...
Slowly watching Orphan black. No frustrations on this one, quite good if you like mystery and conspiracy... Also watching Gu Family Book and started watching Heartless City

[elegance1]

I kinda had to put this drama on a hold and I think I skipped 3-4 episodes, I am really trying to watch this but like Crazy Love it is so god damn long and redundant. I'm kinda following back up again with @baduy, in which I cannot thank you enough. I really wonder about the ending of the drama. It seems to me that everyone will either go to prison, die or go mental. Like fo' real. 

@d0137 - It's so true, everyone's ties and connections are getting really complicated. Everyone has done something wrong and sickening, it's very clear in this drama that revenge only means self destruction. Heartless City/Cruel City is a wonderful drama, you should join in on the action on the forum. ^^   >-

[Guest d0137]

@elegance1  Yes i have not watched the last 7 episodes but been following forum hoping for good changes but it just gets worse and more frustrating!
Feels like the forum regulars also dispersing and diving into other dramas which i don't blame, i am one of them...
Moving on for the time being and yes i will most likely be joining your action forum on Cruel city!Already liking it!

[elegance1]

@d0137 - I am just glad that JTBC is not doing the same thing with Cruel City. Haha, that is also true - we're like discussing other dramas. Are you also watching A Hundreds Years Inheritance? People are really going berserk over the same things I presume. 
- Glad to hear that, you can come any time you want. People are really nice there and we can discuss stuff about the characters, plot etc. ^^  I am also only on this drama for the time being because of the curiosity I have for the ending of this drama. I will begin to watch Crazy Love when the female lead gets a hold of herself. Thank god, Jennifer isn't that bad.   

[Guest d0137]

@elegance1Yes i was watching but i stopped 2 weekends away...how can someone so good and others be so fake and bad and still get away with it? I would have put them all in prison, specially ex mother in law errr... her new mother in law to be not better... Just felt like chacking her when she was standing still while being abused errrr really annoying!
Will check what people will be saying on the drama, is near end by now.
Already ALERT about CRAZY LOVE (the title gave me an idea of what it might be all about), i like drama but when characters get that miserable it gets tiring buff!!!, i gave up in one drama i was watching with similar title because i couldn't believe how ridiculous it could get for "someone in love" is more like OBSESSION of some sort for good or bad errrr
Yes will join you soon @Cruel city (going into episode 3 this weekend).

[Guest d0137]

Sorry many typing mistakes lol, working and trying to write this is the result...

[baduy]

It seems everyone else has given up, so I'm not going to post regularly any more.

That doesn't mean I agree with most of the dismissive criticism of this drama posted here. In the absence of decent subs, it's nearly impossible without a fair grasp of Korean  to make an informed judgement on this drama, with its very complex psychological patterns, often not detectable without the dialogue (and some of which are getting lost in the subs anyway).  The writer and the production team can hardly be blamed for things which are actually the consequence of viewers not understanding the language.

The worst that can be said of this production is that, even in its native country, it stretches the willingness of an early evening audience give it the attention it needs. Dailies in this slot are normally intended to be followed with only half an ear or eye. This one demands focussed viewing for the whole thirty-five minutes. But jtbc is noted for meaty dramas that expect and reward close attention, even in genres normally associated with "easy viewing" (for example Can We Get Married) , and it's interesting they are trying to extend this into the area of dailies, where they hadn't so far ventured.

It's just a pity the the loss of one slot last Monday due to the awards show has messed with the writer's very careful structuring into single-week plot chunks. Last week ended with a very weak cliffhanger meant to air on a Thursday and be followed by yesterday's episode to provide the big weekend-spanning suspense.

If anyone is still watching, though, today's cliffhanger (ep 86) may be baffling without knowing what Seo Won's bombshell remark is. He turns to Jennifer and tells her that it seems her mother-in-law has summoned him to get advice on how to force a divorce between her and Hyeok Min. [The idea of parents forcing their offspring into a divorce neither of them wants is rooted in the neo-Confucian family law of the Joseon period. Under Joseon law, if the elders of both the husband's and the wife's families agreed, they could file for the couple to be divorced without consulting them. The divorce grounds usually cited in such cases were "barrenness" (= failure to produce a healthy male heir) and/or disrespect to family elders in general and the mother-in-law in particular) The particular expression Seo Won uses to talk about a "forced divorce" (이혼시키라 하다) is a relic of that practice, though of course it has no longer been a legal possibility in Korea for more than a century.]