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On 12/1/2020 at 6:34 PM, dramafan33 said:

The references were there, its just that In the actual korean version they used a lot of allegory, metaphors, coloquial expressions so it didn’t seem as “in your face” as with this modernized straightforward translation (For example, in the drama they mention Alzheimer, boxer shorts, Im sure this is not what the korean version said. They used old expressions to make the drama feel more authentic. So in a way the translation robs the drama of its original flavor but, it also makes it much easier to understand) 

 

BTW I managed to not fast forward and Im already at the part where I actually enjoyed the drama but I must admit, while I LOVE parts of this drama, there are soooo many draggy parts. This is probably the first time that I watch the drama in its entirety. And as hard as I try, I can’t get on board with the Song Taeha - Unnyun “romance”. Their eternal blank stares make me so sleepy. Its so frustrating that the drama insisted on presenting these scenes where I suppose we were witnessing the “falling in love” phase but there are zero sparks. And they dedicate so many scenes to this. 
 

OTOH I am liking Seolhwa much more and the rival slave hunter boss who is very amusing. Im also more interested in the “assassin” storyline more than ever before (I used to never pay attention to him) Daegil and friends are still my favorite dynamic but I re affirm my first impression of the drama, the writing doesn’t provide enough justification for Daegil’s rage during the first half of the drama. This makes it hard for me to root for him (besides the fact that he is literally hunting oppressed people) JH kinda sold the character’s pain to me, on his own. The writing gives a lot more background for Song Taeha. But since we don’t get to see how Daegil went from sheltered and naive noble boy full of dreams to ruthless cynical slave hunter we don’t really see what pain and abuse he must’ve gone through to get to his current state. Im sure his “broken” spirit didn’t happen on that very night. But that was never shown. We were left to assume. And that kinda sucks imo. Also, I now see how illogical the character of Unnyun is. So I guess I can safely say, I love/hate this drama. Its not pure love love lol 

 

I don’t know why I was lurking here today, I'd have preferred not to read this, because now I’m very tempted to join the Chuno rewatch, and I don’t have the time :(

 

BTW, my relationship with Chuno was a love/hate relationship as well, from the first episode until the very end. I sometimes wonder why I loved the show so much, despite realizing that it had so many flaws. Because it has too many flaws. As you said, the main characters backgrounds and motives were never explained. As for the narrative, except for the slave rebellion plot (which is the better in my opinion), the main storylines are inconsistent and based in big ideas (“larger than life love story”, “wanting to create a better world”) that are empty if you look closer at them (“a better and more equal world”, yes, but how are you going to get it? Protecting a little boy that according to Wikipedia is going to be dead in two years? Really? “Larger than life love story” when the romantic heroine has less personality than a Harrod’s mannequin? Are you kidding me, my beloved scriptwriter?)

 

But, as I said once, my main problem with Chuno was the UN character, because she was the very embodiment of what a “proper woman” should be according to a sexist conservative narrative. For me, she was a very retrograde character, and I found it problematic and even disgusting the fact that such a character could be the “heroine” in a story written and told in the XXI century. And I don’t buy the lame excuse of “historical accuracy”, because lots of things in Chuno are not accurate, so its female lead didn’t need to be such a tremendously sexist character. I disliked her so much that I could never sympathise at all with Daegil’s love for her nor his pain for not having her; and eventually I even got really fed up with his character and his longing glances. So my relationship with Daegil is a love/hate relationship as well, but mainly because of her. 

 

So maybe I should go and join the rewatch with an only goal: to warm to the Un-nyun character (although I know it’s going to be impossible B))

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@Akhmatova You’d only have to watch 2 eps a week so it’s not too time consuming. Please do join. I also think Unnyun’s depiction as “such a lady” was a big mistake. But, I blew it and marathoned the entire drama again and ended up crying all over again and not just for Daegil (although in the end, yes, he still moves me) Daegil has purpose beyond Unnyun and this time around I felt it more. My perception changes with each re-watch, some things frustrate me more but some other things start to make much more sense. Daegil and Taeha’s conversations towards the ends of the drama are one of the things I enjoyed the most this time. They influenced each other positively. Taeha found a “reason to live” a reason to survive, fight with all his might to survive instead of having this, as long as you die for something honorable is fine, mentality. Daegil found a purpose important and satisfying enough that would be worth sacrificing for and it was not “just” Unnyun. However he has a point in thinking “if you can’t even save the woman you love then wth are you doing all this saving the world for”? But she wasn’t his only compass and motivation, he also had a “family” that he loved despite all his grumpy protests and he was willing to live a peaceful life with them (something I noticed more on this rewatch) . Wether Daegil’s  and Song Taeha’s goal to “change” the world succeeded or not, is probably not the point, but how their perspectives changed and how having a purpose allows a person’s life to feel its worth it despite all the pains and struggles we face. The slaves story is well connected to this as well, with Eopbok also debating if its worth to find his own personal peace and happiness by escaping with Chobok or if he should fight for their dream. He chose to fight. Eopbok accomplished a couple of tangible things, one was he eliminated one major foe by killing him (but as we know, another will come after him) so his most important accomplishment was, he inspired another slave to keep on fighting. I believe that tiny scene is probably the most significant. Daegil and STH, somehow influenced Commander Hwang’s change of heart and we don’t know if that brought any “big” consequences for Joseon but in the end I think this drama was more about the individuals choices and not as much as those “larger” themes. 
 

Unnyun is a mistake as a character but SeolHwa and Chobok are much better female characters. And I managed to like Unnyun only in her relationship with SeolHwa (also, I know I contradict myself but, I do like Lee Da Hae’s interactions with Jang Hyuk acting wise, there was something about the way they looked at each other) 
 

I plan to continue joining the rewatch thread because those viewers will provide even more insights. The drama has flaws but its not as disconnected or illogical. I believe my issue has always been not being patient enough to connect all the dots. For example, the political machinations and plots of the Left Minister in this drama get me too tired to pay attention so I prefer others to figure them out for me :tounge_xd:

 

I hope you can join us. 

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@dramafan33 

 

Definitely, reading your thoughts about Chuno makes me want to join the rewatch so badly. They are so interesting :)

 

I would like you to be right about Daegil, because my main impression about him in my first (and only) watch of Chuno was that he was mainly driven by his love for UN, and  that - although it’s true that there was a lot more to his character than this- everything in his life was overshadowed by it, and in the end, he sacrificed himself for “just” UN, and I hated it a lot (although I’ve always wondered if in his very last moments with Seol-Hwa he regretted -even for a moment- his choice). Maybe a rewatch and reading other people’s thoughts would change my views about it. 

 

Regarding the female characters, it’s true that Chobok and Seol-Hwa are wonderful characters (especially SH, my wonderful little girl of the floating world :wub:), but sometimes the point is not the characters themselves, but how the narrative treats and presents those characters. With the Un-nyun/Seol-Hwa characters, Chuno plays blatantly with the archetypical dichotomy of “the angel in the house/the fallen woman” Joseon style (aka “the proper Confucian woman vs the outcast prostitute girl”) in a very problematic and sexist way IMO. But it’s funny, because - just like you- in my first  Chuno watch, the only time I felt some warm to UN was in her moments with Seol-Hwa (but that’s the Seol-Hwa charm, she’s so wonderful and great, that everybody who comes in contact with her is wonderful by proxy :P). But now, after doing some reading about women's condition in the Confucian Joseon society, I feel like I could try to warm to her character through her “love story”  with Song Taeha (yes, with Song Taeha, even if their "love story" is so bland as their characters. BTW, I think they are a match made in heaven: the perfect upright man with the perfect upright woman, they deserve each other). Because I read that in a Confucian society, a woman should be so pure and faithful to the man in her life that if her husband or fiance died, she was not allowed to remarry, because she was supposed to remain faithful to her husband's memory even beyond his death. So UN being able to “get over” Daegil and allowing herself to be “unfaithful” to his memory and falling in love with another man is the only thing in the whole story that makes her character somewhat “human” and “flawed”, something more than a parody of a “perfect Confucian woman”. I don’t know, because it’s truly a very nuanced and complicated topic, and I don’t know if my English is good enough to express myself properly. But I would try and join the rewatch, because I would love to discuss Chuno with other people, and read your wonderful thoughts about it!!

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7 hours ago, azureblue7 said:

 I love how serious he was when he was learning cooking from Soyou even though we can tell how stressed he was.  Haha!   

Lol oppa got this though as long as it's not anything like pancake or crepes he's ok.

5 hours ago, Biology Lesson said:

He does take things very seriously, doesn't he? but at the same time can enjoy everything, like the way he was having fun in the Zumba lesson, that by the way, wasn't very good :crazy: A good instructor says what he will do next before changing to the next exercise...  

Haha yea like when soyou lost his fish.  He laugh it off and was ok, but she wasn't.  He doesn't like to hear people say sorry because he say cause distance, but then it's funny when he say he'll just kneel.  He does look very happy during the dance, but I agree with soyou it was a bit scary.

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@Akhmatova Your english is perfect to me. All your thoughts about the drama make sense, but I think they can also align with my view. Because yes, Daegil was obsessed (Jang Hyuk said he wanted to portray the tragedy of a man who was “stuck”) His tragedy was precisely his inability to see the light around him for most of those 10 years, but if you observe him closely (and Jang Hyuk’s amazingly nuanced performance in this) and if you listen less to his words and look more at his eyes you will see that Daegil had many acts of kindness towards SeolHwa and I do think he was starting to see her “light” (he also alludes to it during his last moments) Daegil also loved his brothers. Im sure you remember he almost went crazy without them and all the plans he had for their future. I honestly ignored so many things on my first watch because my frustration with Daegil’s stubborness and need to keep a “macho” front didn’t allow me to appreciate all these other aspects of him. There is one tiny sweet scene, after he brings back SeolHwa, where one of the brothers accuses him of being a “softy” and Daegil looks a bit flustered, embarrassed and quietly mutters something like “Im not a softie, what are you talking about?” (Im paraphrasing) Its a very brief moment, so small that now Im doubting it happened lol (Ill go look for it again) In conclusion, I agree with your view, it corresponds to what we saw on the screen but I also feel that there was a bit more to them if we pay attention to some details. We could also take Daegil’s “obsession” as the “energy” he needed to survive after he was thrown to the streets, that mix of love/hope and hate/grudge he had, kept kim alive. I was told and later read that this drama is representative of the concept of “han”. 

https://www.google.com/amp/m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.amp.asp%3fnewsIdx=41770


This article doesn’t mention it but, I read in a book that while “han” may be considered a negative “force” its still a force and it works both against and in favor of korean’s progress. It is that “anger” and energy that has made them stubborn enough to go from a third world economy in the 80s to a competitive economy (according to one author) We may not agree with this take but it’s nonetheless interesting right? Problem with han is that it can also consume you and destroy you (sounds like someone we know?) 

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Actor Son Hyun-joo appeared as a guest in SBS Power FM's "Cinetown," which aired on 9th Dec.


On this day, Son Hyun-joo mentioned the 'Shy Club' which consists of artistes in the entertainment industry such as BoA, SHINee Minho, Ko Chang-seok, Jang Hyuk, and Ma Dong-seok.


He said, "Now I'm not shy of strangers. Minho was discharged from the army and had lunch recently. Ma Dong-seok and Jang Hyuk are the busiest. The person who always comes out is Yoo Hae-jin. I don't want him to come out any more," Sun said.


"We used to meet often, but now we can't because of Corona virus," he added.

 

 

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Just finished watching Hyuk's stint on Carefree Travelers. Someone on here recommended it to me - I can't remember who, but thank you! I thoroughly enjoyed watching it and for some reason had missed it before when watching his other variety shows. So neat to see him seeing places that I have visited myself. For some reason, that made it even more special. And what a fun group of guys! They had me laughing all the way though. 

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59 minutes ago, DarlaRochelle said:

Just finished watching Hyuk's stint on Carefree Travelers. Someone on here recommended it to me - I can't remember who, but thank you! I thoroughly enjoyed watching it and for some reason had missed it before when watching his other variety shows. So neat to see him seeing places that I have visited myself. For some reason, that made it even more special. And what a fun group of guys! They had me laughing all the way though. 

Is is this the one where they went to Colorado? My favorite of his travel shows was “Friends in Croatia” and the one where he went to California many years ago. 

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1 hour ago, DarlaRochelle said:

Just finished watching Hyuk's stint on Carefree Travelers. Someone on here recommended it to me - I can't remember who, but thank you! I thoroughly enjoyed watching it and for some reason had missed it before when watching his other variety shows. So neat to see him seeing places that I have visited myself. For some reason, that made it even more special. And what a fun group of guys! They had me laughing all the way though. 

I also loved that show. The guys were fun, and I loved seeing JH start out so shy he couldn't say more than one word on the bus at the beginning, to singing on the bus by the end :D.  You did see his recent reunion with 3 of those guys in the show Veteran giant ep 10-11, right? That show was also fun :) 

 

Oh, and by the way- watched the show you recommended- Siyah Biyaz ask, but instead of falling for the lead, I'm afraid I ended up falling for Abidin- the sweetest, most courageous guy in the show! :hwaiting2: 

 

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3 hours ago, Biology Lesson said:

I also loved that show. The guys were fun, and I loved seeing JH start out so shy he couldn't say more than one word on the bus at the beginning, to singing on the bus by the end :D.  You did see his recent reunion with 3 of those guys in the show Veteran giant ep 10-11, right? That show was also fun :) 

 

 

I haven't been able to find it with English subs yet, unfortunately!

 

Yes, I loved see his personality coming out more the more comfortable he got around the guys!

 

3 hours ago, Biology Lesson said:

Oh, and by the way- watched the show you recommended- Siyah Biyaz ask, but instead of falling for the lead, I'm afraid I ended up falling for Abidin- the sweetest, most courageous guy in the show! :hwaiting2: 

 

 

Abidin was great too! :) So glad you ended up watching!!

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1 hour ago, DarlaRochelle said:

 

I haven't been able to find it with English subs yet, unfortunately!

 

Yes, I loved see his personality coming out more the more comfortable he got around the guys!

 

 

I think there is only 1 or 2 ep of Friends in Croatia with subs,which is such a pity. Hyukie looked so cool and young there and he was so natural and comfortable with his 2 friends. But Carefree Travelers is good as well. :)

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4 hours ago, DarlaRochelle said:

 

I haven't been able to find it with English subs yet, unfortunately!

 

Oh, yeah. There won't be English subs for that show. At the time it was broadcast, it was @azureblue7 and Jane17827 on IG that graciously translated various moments from that show for us :) 

 

Here's a few links, for example-

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CDx6HpEJNfy/

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CDpoqv4peLN/

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CDleaDHpflu/

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CD2UuvOJMKz/

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CDlMHxhpSka/

 

 

 

4 hours ago, DarlaRochelle said:

Yes, I loved see his personality coming out more the more comfortable he got around the guys!

 

 

Abidin was great too! :) So glad you ended up watching!!

Thanks for recommending it! what was the second show you recommended? 

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17 minutes ago, Biology Lesson said:

 

Oh, yeah. There won't be English subs for that show. At the time it was broadcast, it was @azureblue7 and Jane17827 on IG that graciously translated various moments from that show for us :) 

 

Thanks for those clips - those were great!!

 

17 minutes ago, Biology Lesson said:

Thanks for recommending it! what was the second show you recommended? 

 

Erkenci Kus - it's more of a rom/com than a drama series, and it drags on a bit long, but the chemistry between the two leads makes them one of my favorite on-screen couples ever. That show holds a special place in my heart because it's what got me into watching international series. I saw a YT fan video and then was intrigued enough (okay, okay, I fell for Can Yaman's handsome face!) to watch the whole series, which led me to start watching other Turkish series, which led me to be open to watching kdramas, which led me to watching Crash Landing On You, which eventually led me to Fated To Love You, which of course led me to Jang Hyuk. :)

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7 minutes ago, DarlaRochelle said:

 

Thanks for those clips - those were great!!

 

 

Erkenci Kus - it's more of a rom/com than a drama series, and it drags on a bit long, but the chemistry between the two leads makes them one of my favorite on-screen couples ever. That show holds a special place in my heart because it's what got me into watching international series. I saw a YT fan video and then was intrigued enough (okay, okay, I fell for Can Yaman's handsome face!) to watch the whole series, which led me to start watching other Turkish series, which led me to be open to watching kdramas, which led me to watching Crash Landing On You, which eventually led me to Fated To Love You, which of course led me to Jang Hyuk. :)

Oh, did a search and realized that I actually tried watching that show. Don't even remember why I dropped it. I think it was because the girl annoyed me :) A special peeve that I have in Rom coms, that is especially true for K rom coms, is the annoying innocent peppy female protagonist. I have dropped more shows than I can count due to that (including crash landing). I actually ended up watching another Turkish rom com that I liked much better- Bay Yanlis. This too dragged a bit by the end, but I really liked the two protagonists and all of the other characters in the show, especially the wacky plastic surgeon- he was so odd he cracked me up! :lol: The kind of role JH could eat up :D.

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  • Prettysup changed the title to Jang Hyuk 장혁 - upcoming movies 'Tomb of the River’ and 'A Kid Deserves To Die'

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