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7 hours ago, dramafan33 said:

@fiesty8001 That’s the best way to learn. I know even the girls who were only a few grades after mine already had classes that were more informative. Many things evolved rapidly. I think I learned the worse way, through friends who were ignorant and made everything seem creepy and disgusting and TV/movies. But nowadays parents talk to their kids about it (even if its still uncomfortable) I think openness about the subject is best. Personally I was sort of inadvertently “exposed” to it as I wasn’t too curious about the subject. But other kids, especially boys, its all they think about once they hit puberty and it made me annoyed and uncomfortable. So if I had a kid I’d prepare them for what’s inevitably coming as early as they might “understand”. Kids also need to be aware of things because there are many predators out there, unfortunately. 
 

Even though our biology books were very informative, some teachers(in other schools) were not willing to discuss this topic with their students. They either skimmed through the chapter or asked the kids to learn it on their own. Luckily our biology teacher was a level-headed person. He used to be my most favourite teacher. On first day of reproduction class he declared "If you act unnaturally in this class then it means you are already too familiar with this knowledge".:lol:

Then he proceeded coolly like it was a circulatory or respiratory system class. His attitude put all of my classmates at ease and few potential stray minds worked hard to keep straight faces probably because they didn't want to be known as "too knowledgeable" folks. 

I live in a 'conservative' society and people here hardly discuss these things with their kids so I think it's best to learn in the school.

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4 hours ago, Biology Lesson said:

I guess you guys are right, it is the Korean public that is causing the sterilization and infantalization of their shows.

I don't see anything wrong with 'sterlization' and 'infantalization' of the tv shows in Korea. They have right to decide what is appropriate for their society or what is not.

 

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2 hours ago, fiesty8001 said:

I don't see anything wrong with 'sterlization' and 'infantalization' of the tv shows in Korea. They have right to decide what is appropriate for their society or what is not.

 

Do they have they right?! Because I was in the middle of planning a coup, in which I was going to replace the Korean people with a bag of peas I had lying around... Thank god you stopped me in time! :blink:...

Of course they have the right to determine what they watch, did I say they didn't?! The same way that I have the right not to like most of those 'sterilized and 'infantalized' kdramas... This is why I realized it's not Kdramas that I like, it's JH. So, don't worry- the Korean public and the shows he likes are safe... I'm off to watch Numb3rs while I wait for JH's next project... 

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29 minutes ago, Biology Lesson said:

The same way that I have the right not to like most of those 'sterilized and 'infantalized' kdramas... This is why I realized it's not Kdramas that I like, it's JH. 

I also have the right to request you to accept diversity of the cultural values.... :rolleyes:

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23 minutes ago, corey said:

I like Numb3rs too!  But I've seen it too often, alas, so there is no more thrill in watching. Does that mean that you have finished re-watching BM?

Oh, yeah, I finished rewatching BM two days ago :) 

I actually have never seen Numb3rs before, so this is the first time for me... It's a cute show, though it does overestimate the ability of mathematicians...  I roll my eyes quite a bit watching this :D

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16 hours ago, fiesty8001 said:

I don't follow C celebrity news but I've read a disgusting news(on a K-pop site) that some people were questioning paternity of child of a C celebrity couple.:unsure:

They like juicy news. Which celebrity having extramarital affair, which celebrity divorce, which celebrity married (can also dig out the celebrity ex boyfriend/girlfriend), which celebrity pregnant without marriage...

 

14 hours ago, corey said:

Also - I have finished ep 2 of BM. And I thought, am I the only one who cannot stand the FL? She looks about 12 and behaves as if she is 12 and someone thoguth her a good OTP with JH???

I'm 1 of the minority here who doesn't like BM pairing. PSD looked like a teenager dating JH. In real life, she was 25 years old when she acted in BM while JH was 40 years old. I felt the makeup artiste should have made her looked slightly older so she doesn't look like a teenager. And yes, the script made her annoying at the beginning & lacking in logic at some scenes. She (a traffic police cop) could enter the operating theatre to handcuff LYO when he was preparing to do operation. The scriptwriter think audience are stupid people. Anyone can so easily walk in to the op theatre without a valid authorisation? :blink:And she worked alone (they should be working in a pair).

 

14 hours ago, dramafan33 said:

Actually many kdramas are based on existing manga or webtoons.

 

So yeah for some reason there is a lot of censorship in korean TV, maybe they think all programming should be family friendly.

Thanks! I didn't know much about k drama adapting from novels.

 

I agree too that most of what we don't see is due to censorship. There's difference between drama/movie. In movie, if it's a R rated, there's age limit as to who can enter the cinema. But drama is catered to the general audience (young/old) so it is family friendly.

 

But I also feel that, if we want to watch another country drama, be it k drama, c drama, thai drama, etc, we must be prepared to accept the culture & what's their norm in the drama because their drama is catered to their own audience. We can't use our expectation because we aren't from that country & our norm may not be their norm. 

 

 

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42 minutes ago, corey said:

What I appreciate is the learning about SK's society through their entertainment - however, if the shows are deliberately being infanticized because they are offensive to some people, it is quite difficult to learn how the real situation is - are SK people sexless/virginal  or just very conservative and thus do not want to hear or see anything related to, well, not even sex as such, but normal relationship?

 

Hihi well I don't know how true that is most girls say hard to find guy like in kdrama for instance.  There is also a lot of idealization in dramas and movies in general.

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3 minutes ago, phoenix24 said:

Hihi well I don't know how true that is most girls say hard to find guy like in kdrama for instance.  There is also a lot of idealization in dramas and movies in general.

Definitely! Drama is still drama. The "and they live happily ever after" is only for drama. Dramaland & reality land is totally different.

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19 minutes ago, budgerie said:

I agree too that most of what we don't see is due to censorship. There's difference between drama/movie. In movie, if it's a R rated, there's age limit as to who can enter the cinema. But drama is catered to the general audience (young/old) so it is family friendly.

 

But I also feel that, if we want to watch another country drama, be it k drama, c drama, thai drama, etc, we must be prepared to accept the culture & what's their norm in the drama because their drama is catered to their own audience. We can't use our expectation because we aren't from that country & our norm may not be their norm. 

I'm sorry, are you saying that bad writing is representative of korean culture? or is it asexual characters that are representative of Korean culture? We just heard  that the book on which Gaekju was based upon had sexuality in it but that was removed in the show, so- the book doesn't represent Korean culture but the show does?! But most fans talking about the show didn't like it- so are they being disrespectful of Korean culture?! What about you not liking the age difference in BM- plenty of Kdrama have that aspect in them- isn't that being disrespectful too?

I'm confused... 

I'm sorry but I don't feel like I need to accept anything when I watch a TV show- if something doesn't suit my sensibilities or if think something is badly written, I simply don't watch it! For instance- in many Indian movies from the 90s, it was very common to see the protagonist slapping a woman. Seriously. Obviously that kind of behavior was acceptable in that culture at that time, so should I have continued to watch such movies?!

I think I made my point. At any rate, as I've said several times- after numerous attempts trying to find Kdramas that I like, I now realize that I'm not a Kdrama fan, I'm a JH fan.

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1 hour ago, Biology Lesson said:

For instance- in many Indian movies from the 90s, it was very common to see the protagonist slapping a woman. Seriously. Obviously that kind of behavior was acceptable in that culture at that time, so should I have continued to watch such movies?!

 

Slapping woman was never acceptable in Indian culture though. In real life of 90s such behaviour could put someone into deep trouble. :rolleyes:

 

 

57 minutes ago, corey said:

 

Is this the image that SK wants to spread among the international community as their "cultural diversity"? Seriously?

 

"Cultural diversity" when practice is harmless.:sweatingbullets:

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1 hour ago, Biology Lesson said:

I'm sorry, are you saying that bad writing is representative of korean culture? or is it asexual characters that are representative of Korean culture?

For me, I say asexual characters in a drama is representative of k culture. Bad writing is subjective. What is bad writing to you, may not be bad writing to another person. Is a matter of taste. But in most drama, the relationship between couple is almost plain/platonic due to it has to cater to the general public of all ages + the censorship board being strict as to what goes on tv.

 

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We just heard  that the book on which Gaekju was based upon had sexuality in it but that was removed in the show, so- the book doesn't represent Korean culture but the show does?! But most fans talking about the show didn't like it- so are they being disrespectful of Korean culture?!

The drama Gaekju didn't go well with me but there may be some people who liked it. Not liking a certain drama isn't being disrespectful of a drama. Is just individual taste. 

 

As to the book about Gaekju, book is different from drama. Book is sold on the shelf. You have to purposely go to the book store to buy it. Not everyone reads storybook like Gaekju. Not everyone reads a storybook by this author. But drama is different. It's shown on tv, randomly just switch on this channel that channel & you get to watch it.

 

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What about you not liking the age difference in BM- plenty of Kdrama have that aspect in them- isn't that being disrespectful too?

I didn't like the pairing not because of PSD in person but because of her look like a teenager. My issue is with the makeup artiste.

 

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For instance- in many Indian movies from the 90s, it was very common to see the protagonist slapping a woman. Seriously. Obviously that kind of behavior was acceptable in that culture at that time, so should I have continued to watch such movies?!

There are also C drama which the man slap the woman. I would say it partly is to enhance the drama (whatever the storyline is), also it might be an accepted thing in their society.

 

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I think I made my point. At any rate, as I've said several times- after numerous attempts trying to find Kdramas that I like, I now realize that I'm not a Kdrama fan, I'm a JH fan.

All of us here are JH fan.

 

1 hour ago, corey said:

BuCheon's cousin gets a beating with a baseball bat from his father! a grown -up man!). Is this for real? Is this really acceptable and common behaviour in SK? Is this the image that SK wants to spread among the international community as their "cultural diversity"? Seriously?

I think the drama wants to show hierachy. In SK (same as China), hierachy still matters in the family. I've also seen c drama that the father whacks his grown up son. 

 

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So, kissing and consensual sex are not ok with the grandmothers watching dramas with their grandchildren, but showing how a child or a grown up is beaten is ok???

I am not criticizing, I am simply stunned in disbelief. Of course they have the right to their cultural diversity, but world is changing. Moral values are changing constantly. So nobody can really convince me that beating children with a baseball bat is essential to maintain a ntation's cultural diversity. Just sayin' and one woman's opinion.

If it's their culture that the father can whack the son, so watching a drama like this with grandchildren is definitely appropriate. Of course the producer isn't going to be so stupid to film something that is not accepted by their general public.

Having said that, drama is still drama. Don't take it for real. A drama is usually just for entertainment sake. It doesn't 100% represent that k culture is like that or c culture is like that.

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1 hour ago, corey said:

Ok, I should make it clear - I forgot to mention - what I like to see in a drama is the culture of the nation as a whole, not only relationships.

Of course dramas are dramas.  Someone said here (sa usual forgot who) that  K-Drama plots are basically Cinderella meets Snow whites meets Count Monte Christo. I live long enough to know that these are are fariy tales and have basically nothing to do with reality.

 

However, some bits are and must be based on the real society, since they are not ostensibly fairy tales.

For example, the thing that bothers me most in K-Dramas is violence. We've discussed the drama "Just between Lovers" - and here we can see a grown-up doctor (the sister of JunHo) who is being literally kicked in the shins by her superior in her workplace. And saw it and my jaw literally dropped. And I have seen similar behavious in other dramas - where people are being beaten in their workplace, not to mention beating received by children from their parents (In MF the other grandson, BuCheon's cousin gets a beating with a baseball bat from his father! a grown -up man!). Is this for real? Is this really acceptable and common behaviour in SK? Is this the image that SK wants to spread among the international community as their "cultural diversity"? Seriously?

 

So, kissing and consensual sex are not ok with the grandmothers watching dramas with their grandchildren, but showing how a child or a grown up is beaten is ok???

I am not criticizing, I am simply stunned in disbelief. Of course they have the right to their cultural diversity, but world is changing. Moral values are changing constantly. So nobody can really convince me that beating children with a baseball bat is essential to maintain a ntation's cultural diversity. Just sayin' and one woman's opinion.

 

Edit: @Biology Lesson, re: slapping - great minds think alike, he he

 

Yea, maybe I can be clearer too.  I wasn't focusing in on relationships, but saying that's one example.  When I say I don't know it doesn't mean I'm putting it down and saying we can't use it at all.  Even fairy tales have some bases of the culture etc.  I'm just saying in retrospect is it 20% real vs 80% fantasy or 50% to 50%. I really don't know.    Just something to think about.  I've used it before and some stuff like you said really makes one wonder like for you it is beating of grownups so for something like that is when I ask a Korean friend.  Hey, is that more for entertainment or what because I just don't get the reasoning.....

 

Well beating is strong term, but grownup or not from your parents not so unheard of in my culture.  From others yea....Not saying i agree and you're right time is changing and I would hope so in that regard.

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@corey See? But we are being judgmental. When you see a character abusing another physically in the workplace it’s usually represented in a negative light. It’s not done by the “good guys”. Therefore the writers are saying “Yes, this happens” but “No, it’s not right”. Do you want koreans to represent a society that is not even close to their sensibilities to accommodate yours. Why are your sensibilities better or more important than theirs?  This is where the respect other culture part comes along. Not an “easy” thing to do as we are humans and we tend to “judge” before we attempt to comprehend and accept differences. But no, I don’t think koreans see abuse in the workplace as positive behavior. Otherwise the “heroes” would be doing it. 
 

@Biology Lesson @budgerie I didn’t like Gaekju at all but it actually had very decent ratings in terms of numbers. Not saying it was considered a success or anything but the numbers were decent. 

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25 minutes ago, dramafan33 said:

@corey See? But we are being judgmental. When you see a character abusing another physically in the workplace it’s usually represented in a negative light. It’s not done by the “good guys”. Therefore the writers are saying “Yes, this happens” but “No, it’s not right”. Do you want koreans to represent a society that is not even close to their sensibilities to accommodate yours. Why are your sensibilities better than theirs? 

Are you saying that people that work in offices in Korea really beat their subordinates? Seriously?! Such behavior would get you immediately fired where I live, if not get you in trouble with the police. Are you seriously asking why that can be problematic for some people?!  Also, that behavior is not always presented in a negative light. I've seen shows in which it was presented in a humorous light, like Lee Gun punching secretary Tak in the throat... And what about those slaps to women in Indian movies? Those were actually done by the protagonists...  

I'm baffled by this entire discussion... How any of us judge what is acceptable and what is not for us, is our business only! What's with the preaching?! And if we return to the original discussion, I don't understand how it became a discussion about culture. More than anything, the main problem in Kdramas is lack of creativity, cliche writing and identical plot lines and identical characters that are simply put in slightly different premises, and, yes, bad writing. Culture has very little to do with this. Many here said that they prefer to watch C Dramas and dramas from other countries, because, again, it's so hard to find good Kdramas! So, what are we talking about here?!

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2 hours ago, azureblue7 said:

Super miss him on the screen even though I'm watching other non-JH dramas..

 

 

Returning to a sore point for all of us- JH's hair :) one thing that baffles me in the clip from real men is what JH does with his hair. When the hair was wet, it looked really good, but then he makes it go straight down and forward- does he seriously think it looks good like that?! with that hair style he looks like he came straight out of a Kung fu movie from the 70s... :D

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@Biology Lesson I think we went in circles. Many of us believe censorship is partially, a reflection of shared sensibilities of the korean audience, you don’t. We can agree to disagree without getting offended and/or offensive. 
 

I (personally) never said you shouldn’t have opinions or voice them. The reason we are here is to exchange thoughts and many times we’ll disagree. 
 

Yes, I actually am saying that it’s a huge possibility that such abuse occurs in the workplace. Why else would they show it time and time again? They showed it in Misaeng, a drama that wasn’t a “fantasy”. So what? We also have sexual harassment happening in the workplace all over the world but who is saying it’s an “example to follow” or “something to be proud of”. By the way that was my response to Corey’s argument that they show “violence” as “something they are ok with showing to the world”. Just because a drama depicts it doesn’t mean it’s a “positive” aspect of their society. That was the point I was trying to make and I’m sorry, not sure why you take my words and turn then into “I don’t understand why this is problematic” I never said that. I know that sometimes I don’t transfer my thoughts too well into the written word but, communication gets worse when the other party insists on misinterpreting and please don’t get offended but I think you do that sometimes. 
 

Anyway since, according to you it’s all bad writing there isn’t much more to explore here. You already reached your conclusion, correct? 
 

And finally yes, I agree that you have a right to judge whats acceptable to you or not, but if we express ourselves on a public forum there will be someone to disagree with you. All I was saying was try to understand before you judge but hey you can take that comment and toss it as you see fit, obviously 

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