Joo Won 주원 [Current Drama 2024 - The Midnight Studio/ 야한(夜限) 사진관]

[kireeti2]

10 hours ago, Calli said:

 What are the other 2 episodes? Have they never been subbed or translated? 

Here's the link for Joo won's Happy together King of Baking Kim Tak Gu . It not complete episode but you can at least see

30 mins of the show. The episode is buried deep in the internet, I was able to download and watch the complete episode but the quality of the video was horrendous and had to delete it after that.

Here is the win win episode of Joo won as guest with his co star from King of Baking Kim Tak Gu

7 hours ago, kittyna said:

They were for King of Baking, Kim Tak Gu and Ojakgyo Brothers respectively, but I don't know if translated versions are still available online - they were ages ago, which is when I watched them, but I haven't tried to track down the links since.

In both of these episodes, joo won was able to show case his singing skills and his co-stars were like, "Yeah, Joo won sing well". And also, in the Ojakgyo episode Uee and Joo won said they would date each other if one them asked the other out in a rapid fire question.Also, we get to know that both Uee and Joo won went to same university, ans also, in this episode Uee said that during the shirt less scene, joo won and Yeon Woo jin did push-ups before the scene to get abs or at least that's what the translation said.

7 hours ago, kittyna said:

(which, incidentally, is currently making me think JW will end up as a Korean version of Jason Bourne)

Jason Bourne is different, it's like creating a super soldier with no moral or ethical values with some kind of brain surgery, and I heard that in Carter Joo won will be a secret agent and stuff like virus is also involved, so, the memory loss concept maybe same but no on the same story line

10 hours ago, Calli said:

While watching Alice I thought his is a face that I could look at forever without ever feeling "now, that's enough"  he just became more and more beautiful the longer I looked at him and the more of his acting and real life personality I got to experience. I just think he's the whole package, beautiful inside out. 

Yeah, I think Alice drama did lot of fan service for Female fans

11 hours ago, Calli said:

I was like "whaaaaaaat? Noooooo! He can sing too????

My exact reactions after I found out that he could sing. I did not know that until I saw his performs of "Honey" song in Happy Together ep-116, his performance in special episode for Baking King Kim Tak Gu and his rap in Win-Win episode(the episode in which he did a guest appearance)

On 3/31/2021 at 12:31 PM, flutterby06 said:

Honestly my instant reaction when I got the news of carter was this-

 

Lol! Every interaction between Cha Yoo Jin and Nae-il is a potential meme material

11 hours ago, Calli said:

As far as me coming away from Good Doctor thinking Joo Won was "hot" goes (lol, I didn't think that's what needed to happen for the drama to become successful internationally tbh)

Yup, Joo won's performance was off the in Good Doctor, so, yeah, looks really didn't matter.

 

Here's the link for Joo won's Healing Camp episode

Here is the link for Ojagkyo drama's Happy together episode of 16 mins(but with Vietnamese subs). PS: The videos suggested in these sites have adult contents

 

[Calli]

hello there lovely people, I really love coming on here and reading your posts. So much wealth of information. 

Dear @kittyna, sadly I'm no fan of fan fiction. I'm more of a "strictly canon" kind of girl so I never got into reading fan fiction despite having been a fangirl for a looong time. I'm sure though that you did a great job depicting Salzburg. And honestly, there were many grammatical errors in the tiny bit of German that was spoken on Naeil's Cantabile and it didn't bother me one bit. I was too busy admiring Joo Won's pronunciation cause that was anything but shabby^^  He did really well. 

 

Dear @kireeti2you're such a star for sharing all these links!! Thank you so so much. I'll check them out as soon as I'm back home. The guest appearance JW had with his fellow King of Baking star on Win Win I've actually seen subbed. Or at least part of it. I remember how cute it was that their drama mom had such a soft spot for JW and that he even sent her a pic from a pretty landscape just because it made him think of her. He's such a sweet human being and I love that he shows his affection so freely to the people he cares about. I wonder if he's still in touch with some of the people he worked with and grew so close with early on in his career. 

 

I'm personally really excited for Carter because 1) it must be an interesting script and character for JW to have agreed to it and 2) I'm hoping it will introduce him to a wider audience that will come to appreciate his acting skills. 

But I'm also still very much hoping we will get some drama news too... I don't know how feasible it is for him to do Carter and a drama within this year - if a script came along that he would deem worthwhile and he'd had enough time to rest in between and take good care of his health - I would really really welcome such news!! Having actor JW on our screens for at least 16 episodes in 2021 would make this year soooooo much better for me personally~ *fingerscrossed*

[kittyna]

1 hour ago, Calli said:

Dear @kittyna, sadly I'm no fan of fan fiction. I'm more of a "strictly canon" kind of girl so I never got into reading fan fiction despite having been a fangirl for a looong time. I'm sure though that you did a great job depicting Salzburg. And honestly, there were many grammatical errors in the tiny bit of German that was spoken on Naeil's Cantabile and it didn't bother me one bit. I was too busy admiring Joo Won's pronunciation cause that was anything but shabby^^  He did really well. 

 

Personally, even I have boundaries when it comes to things like fanfic. For instance, I'll only write stuff that's got to do with the drama characters themselves, because I think writing fics about real people (e.g. about JW himself) is kind of cringe-y. But I do like playing around with the characters and their stories, especially if it helps me to flesh them out and get a better appreciation for how they were written in the first place  

 

But I also know that "fanon" (i.e. fan versions of events and characters) isn't everyone's thing, and that's fine. Thanks for the encouraging words about trying to do places like Salzburg justice, though: I'm a big classical music nerd (even if I was never particularly good on the piano-playing side of things), so Germany and Austria have been on my bucket list for travel for years. lol - I'm not sure when (if ever) I'll get to go, but hey, at least now I have things like YouTube, Instagram, etc. to fill in that void for now  

 

As for the language in Nae Il's Cantabile, yeah, we do have to give JW credit here.  I've noticed from the little snippets in that drama that German pronunciation seems to be really challenging for Korean actors in general - probably because there are so many unfamiliar sounds in there. I did have to learn some German and Hebrew diction for vocal music purposes in the past, so, for example, I noticed that all of the actors murdered the "ch" (like in "Milch"), like, really badly  But then I just imagine that the characters who would have nailed it (e.g. Stresemann and Yoo Jin) nailed it, and those who wouldn't (e.g. Nae Il) wouldn't, and I don't stress it too much.

 

12 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

My exact reactions after I found out that he could sing. I did not know that until I saw his performs of "Honey" song in Happy Together ep-116, his performance in special episode for Baking King Kim Tak Gu and his rap in Win-Win episode(the episode in which he did a guest appearance)

 

I remember I realized it when I came across the song he sang for the King of Baking, Kim Tak Gu OST:

 

 

lol - It's funny, because I actually remember not realizing how good he was a singer at first, but then I understood (after hearing his other songs), that I just happened to come across a recording with really crappy audio quality at the time, and I wasn't picking up on all the good things his voice had to offer  

 

My personal favourite out of his OST contributions, though, is "I Believe" from My Sassy Girl.

 

 

 

It's a cover (the original song was from the film of the same name), but I thought it really showcased the things that made his singing voice distinct: a generally warm tone, and the ability to just get really high (for a guy) and keep his tone both soft and steady once he's up there. Like, many guys can get up there, but they're either belting (like in the climax of a ballad), or it gets really airy. JW manages to maintain a really firm tone up there, though  

 

12 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Also, we get to know that both Uee and Joo won went to same university, ans also, in this episode Uee said that during the shirt less scene, joo won and Yeon Woo jin did push-ups before the scene to get abs or at least that's what the translation said.

 

lol - I think it was just muscles, period: last I checked, push-ups don't do much for abs. But JW did appear to be rather self-conscious about his build back then: he was bigger during his musical theatre days, but lost a ton of weight by the time he started acting on TV, so he's noticeably underweight in both King of Baking, Kim Tak Gu and Ojakgyo Brothers. It was only from Gaksital onwards that he seemed to settle into a "look" that worked for him, as his appearance build/weight-wise stayed more or less the same up until his enlistment. Post-enlistment body builds are a whole other ball game, though.

 

1 hour ago, Calli said:

I'm personally really excited for Carter because 1) it must be an interesting script and character for JW to have agreed to it and 2) I'm hoping it will introduce him to a wider audience that will come to appreciate his acting skills. 

 

Well, JW does like to call the shots himself when it comes to which scripts he chooses. He doesn't always get his way, and sometimes he will concede and do whatever production his agency's pushing for, but most of his more successful dramas (e.g. Ojakgyo Brothers, Gaksital, Good Doctor, Alice) are known to be ones he chose himself. And Yong Pal has the rather interesting distinction of being a unanimous choice: his agency pitched it to him first, and he was reluctant to pick up a second medical drama at first, but then immediately fell for the script and role once he saw it  

 

1 hour ago, Calli said:

The guest appearance JW had with his fellow King of Baking star on Win Win I've actually seen subbed. Or at least part of it. I remember how cute it was that their drama mom had such a soft spot for JW and that he even sent her a pic from a pretty landscape just because it made him think of her. He's such a sweet human being and I love that he shows his affection so freely to the people he cares about.

 

There was another TV talk show special that featured almost the entire main cast of King of Baking, Kim Tak Gu and there's this really cute moment when Jeon In Hwa (the actress who played JW's mother) teased him by calling him in that same tone her character used when scolding him. I'll try to see if the YouTube links are still available when I have time.

 

1 hour ago, Calli said:

But I'm also still very much hoping we will get some drama news too... I don't know how feasible it is for him to do Carter and a drama within this year - if a script came along that he would deem worthwhile and he'd had enough time to rest in between and take good care of his health - I would really really welcome such news!! Having actor JW on our screens for at least 16 episodes in 2021 would make this year soooooo much better for me personally~ *fingerscrossed*

 

I think if he's focusing on Carter now, any drama will have to be a latter half (summer or fall) drama. He's done films and dramas concurrently before (e.g. filming Good Doctor and Catch Me at the same time), but it's harder to do that when one's already signed and the other's not even picked yet.

 

By the way, I totally second @kireeti2's recommendation to check out the Healing Camp interview, because that's the one that really shows how far JW has come as a person since his debut. It's old in hindsight (2015), but he actually hasn't changed that much between then and now, whereas there's a noticeable difference in how self-assured and confident he was in 2015 compared to 2012 or 2013.

 

[EDIT]

 

Found that King of Baking special - it's still on YouTube! 

 

I do want to preface this, though, by saying that this drama is 11 years old by this point, and general societal views in Korea have changed significantly over the past decade. So some of the comments the cast made about a scene where JW's character - Ma Jun - forced himself on the girl he liked were seen as fine then, but definitely wouldn't be now.

 

Part 1

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Part 5

[kireeti2]

3 hours ago, Calli said:

Win Win I've actually seen subbed. Or at least part of it. I remember how cute it was that their drama mom had such a soft spot for JW and that he even sent her a pic from a pretty landscape just because it made him think of her.

Not only his warmth, we get to his rapping skills also, I did not know that he could do that. Also, they looked like real mom and son, they were that close.

3 hours ago, Calli said:

He's such a sweet human being and I love that he shows his affection so freely to the people he cares about. I wonder if he's still in touch with some of the people he worked with and grew so close with early on in his career. 

Yeah, he does that, like he gets into skinship as soon  as he gets comfortable, especially with senior actors both male and female. Also, it might be hard for him to be in touch with his previous co-stars, but he does follow them on Instagram

3 hours ago, Calli said:

I'm personally really excited for Carter because 1) it must be an interesting script and character for JW to have agreed to it and 2) I'm hoping it will introduce him to a wider audience that will come to appreciate his acting skills. 

Also, it is his first Netflix debut, so, yeah, he will definitely get international exposure, if the movie is a hit, and then people will watch his other movies as well, he could get instant fame like "Brave Girl" group for "Rolli song", of course they did struggle to get due recognize and they totally desire the fame, and I think Joo won should get due recognition as well.

3 hours ago, Calli said:

Dear @kireeti2you're such a star for sharing all these links!! Thank you so so much. I'll check them out as soon as I'm back home.

Yeah, most the videos are in bits and pieces, and few links might have been removed, but do try it, who knows, you might get lucky.

2 hours ago, kittyna said:

I'm a big classical music nerd

Yup, @Calli you will end learning lot about Classical Music stuff, she went into such detail that for a second you'll its a fan fiction and start to feel like you are reading about Classical Music history  

2 hours ago, kittyna said:

Ma Jun - forced himself on the girl he liked were seen as fine then, but definitely wouldn't be now.

Yeah, back then if second lead was a***hole first lead was nice and vice versa

 

[kireeti2]

Looks like Joo won attended his friends wedding. It's good that he is spending time with his loved ones, it'll definitely relieve his stress

[kittyna]

2 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Looks like Joo won attended his friends wedding. It's good that he is spending time with his loved ones, it'll definitely relieve his stress

 

Aw...that's cute! Thanks for sharing  lol - I especially love the first pic, where JW's with a little kid 

 

20 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Yup, @Calli you will end learning lot about Classical Music stuff, she went into such detail that for a second you'll its a fan fiction and start to feel like you are reading about Classical Music history  

 

lol - Nothing quite so extensive as that! I just drew inspiration from a few composers' lives and stories for my own fics: that of Mozart and his father (for Cha Yoo Jin and his), and that of Robert and Clara Schumann (for Yoo Jin and Nae Il). 

 

20 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

22 hours ago, kittyna said:

Ma Jun - forced himself on the girl he liked were seen as fine then, but definitely wouldn't be now.

Yeah, back then if second lead was a***hole first lead was nice and vice versa

 

I was more referring to how people thought such a scene was hot back then - with even Eugene saying that she liked that scene. I guess it's fine because it's acting and consensual on all sides, but at the same time, I was genuinely baffled by people liking that kiss. And, in JW's defence, while we'll never know what he thought for sure, from his expression, he seemed just as confused as I was: when I rewatched that footage from the TV special I linked to, he's smiling and nodding along, but there's just ever so slight a of an awkward "Wait, wha...???" feel to his reaction as well. Not to mention that he himself said he thought Yoon Si Yoon's kiss scene (the one being compared with his) was better, since it was actually based on a loving relationship between the characters.

[Calli]

Thanks for sharing that link @kireeti2So nice to see Joo Won today at a friend's (I assume?) wedding. I hope he enjoyed himself. He even sang "If I Were" for the happy couple - so so lucky. 

 

I'm not trained in any way when it comes to singing but I completely agree with your assessment on the strengths and beauty of JW's voice @kittyna He has so much power and stamina on the high notes, it's so impressive. When he's up there it seems so effortless... and I know you'll tell me again that since he's a musical actor that that's a given, but I'm always very moved by how much emotion he can convey through his singing, and how he can sing the same song in so many different ways depending on what emotion he wants to convey (or possibly how he might be feeling that particular moment). I always come away from his singing - and his acting - feeling he puts everything he has and is into them. I guess that's a huge reason why he's taken my heart by storm 

 

And thank you SO SO much for finding that Baking King special with English subs on YouTube, @kittyna. I dont think I would have ever found it by myself. I'll probably watch it today^^

 

I've already watched his Healing Camp appearance from 2015 (I had mentioned it in one of my posts but only in parenthesis) and I loved every minute of it. It gave me some truly wonderful insight into the man he was/is. 

 

What you wrote about his personal choices when it comes to his projects was really really interesting, @kittyna. It definitely seems like he has a very good sense and good judgement when it comes to picking his roles and projects. So were there any where it's known he was reluctant to do them but did them anyway because his agency asked him to? 

 

How likely do you guys think it is that he'll do a drama in 2021? I've kinda fallen into the habit of checking never & soompi daily in the hope of seeing some happy JW news~

Edited April 3, 2021 by Calli

[flutterby06]

On 4/1/2021 at 7:26 PM, Calli said:

I've listened to some of Joo Won's OST songs already... you should have seen my face when I realized that he was the one singing the "proper" version of "If I Were" right after Shi On's while he's sitting on his balcony, looking at the moon. I was like "whaaaaaaat? Noooooo! He can sing too???? How is this fair?" lol. Something along those lines. I love his voice. It's so powerful in conveying emotion. Just like his acting. 

 

 

So far YT has lots of comments like "It's Joo Won singing?' 'He can sing too along with awesome acting." "Honestly he should make an album." So I think fans usually have similar reaction. But I think forgot my initial reaction to his singing. But I'm always looking forward to his singing, his singing changes according to situations.. The whole fandom is actually.

 

Like fandom is rejoicing today at his 'If I were' this is actually covered song by JW originally it was sang by another singer. JW has sang it many times after that specially in fan meetings but it never gets old. 

 

On 4/1/2021 at 11:17 PM, kittyna said:

By the way, you sent out a news article about the original accident that inspired Firefighter a while ago, but I lost track of the link - do you still have it? I've been trying to check something in the (admittedly blurry) behind-the-scenes photos fans have posted on Instagram, but I need the original source information to do that.

 

Here's the news link:

https://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/section/business

 

On 4/2/2021 at 6:40 PM, kittyna said:

I do want to preface this, though, by saying that this drama is 11 years old by this point, and general societal views in Korea have changed significantly over the past decade. So some of the comments the cast made about a scene where JW's character - Ma Jun - forced himself on the girl he liked were seen as fine then, but definitely wouldn't be now.

 

Also I would like to add JW himself thought it was not a ideal kiss scene because it was done without permission. 

 

But yeah....as a makjang drama Baker King had quite some issues. But it also was a well made drama that was able to caught half of a nation. And as far as I know it's the last drama that got 50% viewership rating in Korea.

 

I saw you guys were talking about Joo Won starting as a second lead in his career but honestly his character was significant volume that was probably also the reason why the writer of the drama was so adamant on casting Joo Won despite productions over all negative response to JW. And because the role was significant the production may be also wanted a known face so the character can hold it's ground. If you see Baker King Majun actually has lot of presence be it mostly negative also he is the one who gets the main girl and later tries to start his life anew. When I first saw Baker King it was probably my second JW drama, I wasn't a fan then. So I was really surprised seeing how the antagonistic guy actually has a loveline even though messed up  and he actually got the girl and they actually had a better looking ending than Takgu Misun if you ask me. It's just my opinion tho.

 

But when I first watched Baker King I really couldn't understand why Yu Kyung would choose Majun over Takgu.. not at all. Why would disregard innocent happiness over revenge. But when I watched it second time I understood her mindset a bit but still a  messed up choice nonetheless.

 

About his popularity as all of you were talking about it.

 

I would like to mention that JW actually received Netizen Award which is equivalent to popularity in Gaksital (2012), Good doctor(2013), Tomorrow Cantabile (2014), Youg Pal (Chinese Popularity Award), Also and influential award from China. Here note even tho TC is a low rated drama he got popularity award and along with Ji Chang Wook who got it from healer which actually had rating as well as international popularity. But JW still got popularity award that year because he was still popular among general viewers tho TC didn't get that rating.

 

His visible popularity only got lowered when his took a some what break from Korean drama. He was absent in drama world for nearly 1.5 years. And with his upcoming enlistment his active fanbase got shorter.

 

Another thing @kittyna mentioned that I agree with JW's fanbase overall is like him, not so socially active. I have been a fan since 2014 but I only joined in soompi and twitter to show my support was when I saw JW was going for military 2017.I felt so sad thinking I would've to go on 2 years without JW drama. While I was sad to see his his fanbase as a whole being sleepy but  I'm glad I joined because otherwise I would have missed the fun staff that happened in JW army life.

 

2 hours ago, Calli said:

How likely do you guys think it is that he'll do a drama in 2021? I've kinda fallen into the habit of checking never & soompi daily in the hope of seeing some happy JW news

 

If it was normal time I'd say JW would keep a drama for second half of 2021 because Joo Won knows very well his fans are always looking forward to it. But due to covid time is different now and there're some factors needs to be considered-

 

1)Carter plans to be released this year. I don't know how long Netflix projects takes time to complete a movie shoot but I've heard drama shoots are usually done faster. If it still holds true for Carter. I think we can hope for a drama.

 

2) He said in his Goodbye Alice vlive that with covid the work of production got very difficult and lengthy. Because now they had to ask special permission to the authority or owner of place weather they can shoot in any particular place and if they're rejected from somewhere their team has too look for another replacement location again so things gets delayed than usual. Considering this in mind who knows if it will fit his schedule after he's done with carter schedule.

 

But honesty I wish his agency tries to manages things well so he can do Carter safe and soundly and pick a drama for 2021. We're talking about new drama since he joined Musical GHOST second season.  

 

And lastly I would like to mention...so happy.. JW has appeared today-more like thankful that his friend got married otherwise the wait would probably longer.. Everyone was saying how he is living on cave/dungeon etc.

 

 

Also I'm kind of glad to see another familiar face (well masked face), Lee Sewook (first one in the right). I think last time we saw him with JW was when some of their friends went on outing on a sunny day after JW was back from army. As Sewook is JW's best friend since school I guess it's a wedding of school friend too. Loved to see JW all smiley and hyper among friends. The picture that JW had with a kid was so nice too.

 

A fun doodle that showed how wide JW spread his legs in excitement and his excited peace/v sign that got cut out in the picture frame.

 

 

And the one of the guest who shared the 'If I Were' song was the friend of the Bride while JW is friend of the Groom. The friend said in the caption-

 

"Thanks to Unni I got to listen Joowon-nims song today, I got lucky. I was surprised seeing it in person. I thought celebrities are indeed celebrities."

 

 

IG link: https://www.instagram.com/p/CNManLDH7e2/?igshid=bew2ow9smmog

[Calli]

4 hours ago, flutterby06 said:

I would like to mention that JW actually received Netizen Award which is equivalent to popularity in Gaksital (2012), Good doctor(2013), Tomorrow Cantabile (2014), Youg Pal (Chinese Popularity Award), Also and influential award from China. Here note even tho TC is a low rated drama he got popularity award and along with Ji Chang Wook who got it from healer which actually had rating as well as international popularity. But JW still got popularity award that year because he was still popular among general viewers tho TC didn't get that rating.

 

His visible popularity only got lowered when his took a some what break from Korean drama. He was absent in drama world for nearly 1.5 years. And with his upcoming enlistment his active fanbase got shorter.

To be honest @flutterby06, when I started researching Joo Won and saw how many popularity awards he had gotten in the past (all the ones you mentioned), I expected him to have a huge fanbase. That's partly why I was so surprised to find that he didn't and then @kittynaand @kireeti2offered me some insight as to why. 

I wasn't aware he was away for a whole 1 1/2 years from the Korean drama scene. That must have been the time he did that Chinese drama that hasn't been released yet? Was that his own choice or was that something his agency wanted for him? 

But even knowing that he was away for that period of time, I would still expect him to have a bigger fanbase than he does... because he deserves that so much. Though like you guys mentioned, his acting is always lauded by audience and critics alike and that is something truly meaningful and I think with his talent and hardworking spirit he'll be an actor who'll be around (and loved) for a long, long, long time. 

 

I'm keeping my fingers (and toes) crossed that that 2021 Joo Won drama we're all hoping for will really happen!! 

 

 

[kittyna]

2 hours ago, Calli said:

I wasn't aware he was away for a whole 1 1/2 years from the Korean drama scene. That must have been the time he did that Chinese drama that hasn't been released yet? Was that his own choice or was that something his agency wanted for him? 

 

There were a ton of factors involved: filming Love Express (i.e. the Chinese drama) was one of them, but so was the really long behind-the-scenes process for My Sassy Girl and confusion concerning when he would enlist.

 

Because I started paying attention to news about JW in 2016, I do have some memory of how it all went down, but I was really new to things (and wasn't aware of this forum yet either), so I don't know how clear a picture I actually have. So, @flutterby06, please correct me if I get any of this wrong.

 

After JW did Yong Pal in 2015, word started to spread in the spring of 2016 that JW would enlist soon, with one final drama (My Sassy Girl) being filmed before then. Estimates then were that he would enlist sometime in the fall of 2016, if I recall correctly, as a commissioned police officer.

 

Of course, that's clearly not what happened - and again, there were a couple of reasons why. I'm not sure which reason happened first or which was more important - since obviously, that's JW's own personal business, plus they were both unfolding at the same time - but here's what I do remember.

 

1. My Sassy Girl took way longer to get going than had originally been anticipated. This drama was going to be his agency's own production (SIM Entertainment had recently been acquired and became Huayi Brothers at this point), and there were plans to host open auditions for the female lead. JW was actively involved in that audition process: meeting with the finalists himself, and also having some say in the voting (as did the drama's producers and the general public). By June 2016, they'd had a winner and filming should technically have started right away. BUT! At around the same time, a huge rift developed between China and South Korea over the THAAD radar system (an American-run anti-missile system that China claimed was placed too close to its own borders), so a general halt was put to any joint Korean-Chinese productions at the time. I don't know for sure, but there's some speculation that in addition to Love Express, My Sassy Girl may have been one of the dramas impacted due to Chinese investors pulling out, since next thing we know, the newly-cast lead actress quit under mysterious circumstances, and production was delayed until the role could be re-cast.

 

Note that by this point (Fall 2016), it was getting pretty obviously clear that JW wasn't enlisting anytime soon despite rumours from back in the spring, and this is where the second factor in his long absence from dramaland comes in.

 

2. JW changed his own enlistment terms. Again, I don't know all the internal details or the reasons why (because that's his own business), but what happened was that the Fall 2016 enlistment date would have been if JW accepted the commissioned police officer post he'd originally applied for and received. But then, in September 2016, we received a bombshell: JW had retracted his initial enlistment back in the summer and applied a second time to serve as an active duty soldier.

 

By the time all that got sorted out, the actual enlistment was set for the spring of 2017, with My Sassy Girl filming happening during the fall/winter of 2016 and into early 2017. And that's how a single drama wound up taking almost a year-and-a-half to make - and by the time filming finished on it, JW was off on his enlistment, so that's all we had dramas-wise until Alice.

 

7 hours ago, flutterby06 said:

2) He said in his Goodbye Alice vlive that with covid the work of production got very difficult and lengthy. Because now they had to ask special permission to the authority or owner of place weather they can shoot in any particular place and if they're rejected from somewhere their team has too look for another replacement location again so things gets delayed than usual. Considering this in mind who knows if it will fit his schedule after he's done with carter schedule.

 

Quite honestly, given that we are still in the middle of a global pandemic and film and TV sets are really not conducive for any sort of social distancing measures, I'm sometimes surprised that dramas or films are even being made at all right now. So issues like capacity limits (e.g. places that would have allowed shooting now being unable to due to numbers), or that one time when an outbreak spread through multiple production sets via the staff...I don't blame JW or his agency if they decide to just take one project at a time for now.

 

[EDIT]

 

Getting to replying to some things from the previous page....

 

  

9 hours ago, Calli said:

I'm not trained in any way when it comes to singing but I completely agree with your assessment on the strengths and beauty of JW's voice @kittyna He has so much power and stamina on the high notes, it's so impressive. When he's up there it seems so effortless... and I know you'll tell me again that since he's a musical actor that that's a given, but I'm always very moved by how much emotion he can convey through his singing, and how he can sing the same song in so many different ways depending on what emotion he wants to convey (or possibly how he might be feeling that particular moment).

 

I do think at least some of this is because of JW's own voice, actually. Since there are a number of musical theatre actors who also end up doing dramas and who end up singing OST tracks, but JW's voice is still distinct among them.

 

For example, I think JW's range is a tad high compared to most musical theatre actors, so in a purely musical theatre context, although he's a tenor, he actually struggles with some really classic tenor-range songs that start off low. So, for instance, if you ever listen to him cover "This Is the Moment" (which is the quintessential tenor ballad among Korean musical theatre fans), his opening's actually bit shaky because he has a hard time starting down there. It takes almost a whole minute for the song to move into his comfortable range, and that's immediately noticeable if you listen closely.

 

But that also means he's got an edge over a number of his fellow musical theatre actors when it comes to the higher notes: his tone is not only strong, but, like, extremely resonant at that range. Like, almost to the point where using a microphone might be overkill (especially if you're wearing earbuds ).

 

9 hours ago, Calli said:

What you wrote about his personal choices when it comes to his projects was really really interesting, @kittyna. It definitely seems like he has a very good sense and good judgement when it comes to picking his roles and projects. So were there any where it's known he was reluctant to do them but did them anyway because his agency asked him to? 

 

I don't think we'll ever know if JW was actually reluctant to take on any project, but it's generally assumed among his fans that his lighter rom-com roles were agency picks. So, productions like Nae Il's Cantabile or My Sassy Girl, for example. There's been some speculation among fans for a while that it's because JW's agency doesn't really have that sort of big name teen heart throb Hallyu star yet, so JW's been their best bet on that front for years - the problem is that that's clearly not his strongest suit either, so attempts to make him into that rom-com Hallyu star have never succeeded.  

[flutterby06]

11 hours ago, Calli said:

wasn't aware he was away for a whole 1 1/2 years from the Korean drama scene. That must have been the time he did that Chinese drama that hasn't been released yet? Was that his own choice or was that something his agency wanted for him? 

But even knowing that he was away for that period of time, I would still expect him to have a bigger fanbase than he does... because he deserves that so much. Though like you guys mentioned, his acting is always lauded by audience and critics alike and that is something truly meaningful and I think with his talent and hardworking spirit he'll be an actor who'll be around (and loved) for a long, long, long time. 

 

Can't say precisely whose decision was it. But JW's agency was somewhat affiliated with China at that time. If I'm not wrong his agency become from SIM Entertainment to Huayi Brother when there was a major change in shareholding or something because Huayi Brother is is a China company. His KDrama My Sassy Girl also had Chinese investors but they later pulled out from this project because of China ban on Korean project.

So can't tell who was the decision maker but I just think there's enough influence. Sometimes I think both give in to each other time to time. Because JW doing a 6 months long Musical at the time of covid isn't really an ideal situation for his agency but he still gets to do that. I think they knows what Joo Won wants to do and values it and that's what he's sticking with it also because they're like a family to him, him being there since the beginning for 11 years now.

 

Why I'm saying JW doing Musical isn't ideal situation is because Musical/stage plays don't make as much as money than movie/photoshoots, CFS does. It also isn't highly coveted by media. Though these days it gets somewhat media exposure. I another actor whose work I usually try to follow- Lee Sang Yoon. He recently did one of his first major stage play. He was asked if he'd like to continue. He said he'd like to do at least one play in a year. And the interviewer mentioned "your agency would not be very happy about it, would they!" LSY laughed and said "I will work hard, do what agency gives me and do stage play as well."  So what the idea I get from it is that frequent musical/stage plays isn't favourable to agencies unless the agency is dedicated in that genre.

 

And like @kittyna was saying JW is the only heartthrob in his agency, they had some veteran actor and actress and some talented young actress but not really a heartthrob like Joo Won. So in a way they depend on him a lot.

 

And I really can't pin point a reason for him facing small fanbase but yeah let's hope he will be around and be loved for a long long time because that's what he wants. He first wants to be recognized as a an actor who'll make you depend on him rather than celebrity. 

 

9 hours ago, kittyna said:

Because I started paying attention to news about JW in 2016, I do have some memory of how it all went down, but I was really new to things (and wasn't aware of this forum yet either), so I don't know how clear a picture I actually have. So, @flutterby06, please correct me if I get any of this wrong

 

You're probably right because I actually didn't notice much on his enlistment process except that there was news every now and then about him going to be enlisted. And even if it's delayed I'm so damn glad that JW went for active military service. Because Korea seems to take it bad when a celebrity take police unit. And they colorful life he spend in army- being army instructor in white skull- being featured in army magazine- being MC and performer in two army fest (correct me if I'm wrong I think he's the only celebrity so far who had been MC in 2 army fest). So far it's one of the best decision he has taken considering how enlistment is a sensetive issue to Korea.

 

Hey... Joo Won showed up on people's IG today. Looking very handsome.

 

 

 

[kireeti2]

12 hours ago, Calli said:

I wasn't aware he was away for a whole 1 1/2 years from the Korean drama scene. That must have been the time he did that Chinese drama that hasn't been released yet? Was that his own choice or was that something his agency wanted for him? 

Not just drama, he was also part of movie "Sweet Sixteen"(apparently this movie is based on popular novel in china), he was villain that movie and did a great job than he did for "Gu Ma Jun" character,which shows that he improved a lot as an antagonist. So, yeah, he was unlucky when it came to drama, by the time his drama was done, tensions between China and South Korea were high and Chinese authorities sort of banned Korean dramas and movies and also Chinese drama in which Korean actor/actress were part of, so, we can say that between 2016 to 2017 he sort of lost one year and even one year is valuable for a actor like joo won who is in competitive ecosystem. If his agency did made him do a Chinese drama, he could have done a Korean drama, as his popularity soared due to Yong Pal success, it would have been good boost to his career and popularity

2 hours ago, flutterby06 said:

Why I'm saying JW doing Musical isn't ideal situation is because Musical/stage plays don't make as much as money than movie/photoshoots, CFS does. It also isn't highly coveted by media. Though these days it gets somewhat media exposure. I like another actor- Lee Sang Yoon. He recently did one of his first major stage play. He was asked if he'd like to continue. He said he'd like to do at least one play in a year. And the interviewer mentioned "your agency would not be very happy about it, would they!" LSY laughed and said "I will work hard, do what agency gives me and do stage play as well."  So what the idea I get from it is that frequent musical/stage plays isn't favourable to agencies unless the agency is dedicated in that genre.

You are right, when it comes to money and fame, musical is not ideal for any artist, but, I think lot of artist do it out of passion, just like Joo won, so, they are in it improve their acting skills and love for musical. Also, lot of musical artist are now successful actors, like, Kang Ha-neul who was not only musical actor but also junior to Joo won, so, I think actors like to perform musical to improve their acting skills as well, like, it is common knowledge that Musical artist fair well in dramas and movies when compared to K-pop artist(no offense to them)

2 hours ago, flutterby06 said:

You're probably right because I actually didn't notice much on his enlistment process except that there was news every now and then about him going to be enlisted. And even if it's delayed I'm so damn glad that JW went for active military service. Because Korea seems to take it bad when a celebrity take police unit. And they colorful life he spend in army- being army instructor in white skull- being featured in army magazine- being MC and performer in two army fest (correct me if I'm wrong I think he's the only celebrity so far who had been MC in 2 army fest). So far it's one of the best decision he has taken considering how enlistment is a sensetive issue to Korea.

Also, he made lot good friends. Maybe that's why he choose army over police service.

 

[Calli]

@kittyna, a million thank yous for your thorough post on what you remember from back in 2016/17. You've no idea how much I appreciate you breaking it down for me (and others) in such detail. 

I had actually read about Joo Won cancelling his enlistment as part of a police promotional unit back in September 2016 - which would have meant him enlisting in July 2016 - and instead wanting to serve as an active duty soldier and awaiting his enlistment date at the time. The article didn't mention any reason for why he changed his mind/preference of course (here's the link to the article). 

Him wanting to enlist as an active duty soldier instead of in that police promotional unit probably had many reasons but, after having read your post @kittyna, it seems likely that the filming of Sassy Girl being delayed is one of them. 

I remember reading about the THAAD radar system and the crisis that ensued between Korea and China and how it affected the entertainment industry as well - I was brand new to K-world at the time and I remember being a little surprised how much of an effect politics or a diplomatic crisis between two countries could have on entertainment content. 

 

It's honestly really sad that Joo Won couldn't benefit more off of the popularity and success of Yong Pal and a whole 1 1/2 years passed before his next drama... 

 

By the way, @kireeti2, as far as I know Joo Won filmed "Sweet Sixteen" (or "Passion Heaven" as it was originally called) back in 2014, right before Naeil's Cantabile. I remember that well because both his preparation for the movie (learning Chinese) and his preparation for Naeil's Cantabile (learning the piano, the violin, and conducting) were happening simultaneously, as depicted in "Joo Won's Life Log". For some reason I'm not aware of, though the movie was filmed in 2014, it only got released in 2016. Maybe @flutterby06or @kittynamight know why? 

 

Since you guys mentioned his agency in your posts, I've been wondering, is Studio Santa Claus Entertainment = Huayi Brothers = SIM Entertainment? 

I know Joo Won has been with the same company since the beginning but I'm a bit confused about the changes that happened in between to the company itself. 

 

After reading your insights into actors doing plays/musicals @flutterby06, I'm even more glad Joo Won got the green light to do GHOST again in 2020/21. Reading and watching some of his interviews from the first time he performed in it in 2013 and then again in 2020/21, it obviously is a project that is very very close to his heart and that brought him a lot of joy. And growth. Or rather a platform where he could clearly showcase and experience his own growth over the last 7 years, so I'm really really happy he got the chance to participate again in it with so many of the original cast members. 

 

By the way, I am rewatching Alice at the moment (I initially wanted to start Yong Pal but I kinda got caught up in Alice again and wanting to better understand its ending) and I stumbled on this hellokpop article reviewing the drama and I just loved all the praise the reviewer had for Joo Won. You might have already read it but let me quote it anyway: "Making his small screen return after being discharged from the military service, one thing remains truer than ever - Joo Won's acting never disappoints." (more praise follows) 

 

It makes me so happy reading such well-deserved praise 

Edited April 4, 2021 by Calli

[kireeti2]

33 minutes ago, Calli said:

By the way, @kireeti2, as far as I know Joo Won filmed "Sweet Sixteen" (or "Passion Heaven" as it was originally called) back in 2014, right before Naeil's Contabile. I remember that well because both his preparation for the movie (learning Chinese) and his oreperation for Naeil's Contabile (learning the piano, the violin, and conducting) were happening simultaneously, as depicted in "Joo Won's Life Log". For some reason I'm not aware of, though the movie was filmed in 2014, it only got released in 2016. Maybe @flutterby06or @kittynamight know why? 

Oh, I didn't know that. I think he mentioned this in his Life Vlog when he visited to China for some project, maybe he was referring to this movie. But, I am wondering why it took 2 years to release, maybe joo won is sort of unlucky when comes to movies, since his movies either get delayed or has mediocre plots. Another reason for his small fan base is his unsuccessful movies, most them(except Fatal intuition) failed to sell 1 million tickets, which is considered as a benchmark for good Korean movie

37 minutes ago, Calli said:

By the way, I am rewatching Alice at the moment (I initially wanted to start Yong Pal but I kinda got caught up in Alice again and wanting to better understand its ending) and I stumbled on this hellokpop article reviewing the drama and I just loved all the praise the reviewer had for Joo Won. You might have already read it but let me quote it anyway: "Making his small screen return after being discharged from the military service, one thing remains truer than ever - Joo Won's acting never disappoints." (more praise follows) 

Thanks for sharing the article, it's like his drama has almost become invisible despite having decent story line and good acting by cast members. I think we can all agree that everyone involved in the drama did an excellent job, only draw back was the plot, written sort of lost the plot after episode 9, and dropping ratings was evidence to it. Like, initial episodes were good, and plot line was excellent up to episode 6, but after that the writers underutilized the rest of the cast members and solely dependent on main leads to carry the forward the plot. So, for me a good drama is optimum utilization of all the cast members rather than banking on popular leads. So, drama did not reach its potential despite excellent and moving performance of main leads.

 

[kittyna]

6 hours ago, flutterby06 said:

So can't tell who was the decision maker but I just think there's enough influence. Sometimes I think both give in to each other time to time. Because JW doing a 6 months long Musical at the time of covid isn't really an ideal situation for his agency but he still gets to do that. I think they knows what Joo Won wants to do and values it and that's what he's sticking with it also because they're like a family to him, him being there since the beginning for 11 years now.

 

Why I'm saying JW doing Musical isn't ideal situation is because Musical/stage plays don't make as much as money than movie/photoshoots, CFS does. It also isn't highly coveted by media.

 

1 hour ago, Calli said:

After reading your insights into actors doing plays/musicals @flutterby06, I'm even more glad Joo Won got the green light to do GHOST again in 2020/21. Reading and watching some of his interviews from the first time he performed in it in 2013 and then again in 2020/21, it obviously is a project that is very very close to his heart and that brought him a lot of joy. And growth. Or rather a platform where he could clearly showcase and experience his own growth over the last 7 years, so I'm really really happy he got the chance to participate again in it with so many of the original cast members. 

 

I think that, from a purely financial perspective, doing a musical or stage production, especially now during COVID, would be a poor choice. Previously, during Ghost's 2013/2014 run, a lot of fans travelled to Korea to see JW perform, which would have made it more profitable in the long run. Like, I don't know how much JW or his agency gets from appearance fees when he's in a musical, but there would probably be more if there are better ticket sales. But this time around relying on a purely domestic audience that's also smaller due to physical distancing measures...yeah, this could very well turn out to be a loss. 

 

However, I do see it as a win for JW himself because, as you guys pointed out, he's doing something he loves and that's really what matters here.

 

4 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

You are right, when it comes to money and fame, musical is not ideal for any artist, but, I think lot of artist do it out of passion, just like Joo won, so, they are in it improve their acting skills and love for musical. Also, lot of musical artist are now successful actors, like, Kang Ha-neul who was not only musical actor but also junior to Joo won, so, I think actors like to perform musical to improve their acting skills as well, like, it is common knowledge that Musical artist fair well in dramas and movies when compared to K-pop artist(no offense to them)

 

And this is the flip side  Stage and musical theatre actors tend to completely nail their roles when they switch over to film or television, and a lot of great dramas (e.g. Prison Playbook and Hospital Playlist are a notable pair) actually do turn to theatre for their casting.

 

That's even how JW was "discovered", so to speak: a higher-up from SIM Entertainment saw him as the lead in Spring Awakening and approached him with a deal.  

 

1 hour ago, Calli said:

By the way, @kireeti2, as far as I know Joo Won filmed "Sweet Sixteen" (or "Passion Heaven" as it was originally called) back in 2014, right before Naeil's Cantabile. I remember that well because both his preparation for the movie (learning Chinese) and his preparation for Naeil's Cantabile (learning the piano, the violin, and conducting) were happening simultaneously, as depicted in "Joo Won's Life Log". For some reason I'm not aware of, though the movie was filmed in 2014, it only got released in 2016. Maybe @flutterby06or @kittynamight know why? 

 

Yes, it was filmed in 2014/2015, which is why he could also mention it in interviews from that time. 

 

And while I can't comment on Sweet Sixteen in particular, but I do know that a lot goes into making Chinese films after shooting wraps, which might account for some delays. For example, all the actors' voices are subsequently dubbed over by professional voice actors (which means, for those who watch Chinese dramas, that yes, that's not the actor's real voice you're hearing - like, ever). Film and TV productions in China do this to smooth out what would otherwise be a wide range of regional accents, but it does add a whole other step in the editing stage that most Western or Korean productions don't need to worry about.

 

I haven't watched Sweet Sixteen myself, but I've heard that it wound up doing JW dirty in the long run. He was playing an antagonist and he did go into the role knowing that, but his part was really cut down in post-production so that many of the scenes that would have added nuance to his character were missing in the final version and he just turned into a straight-up bad guy.

 

@kireeti2 - Yours is the first compliment about his role there that I've heard thus far, actually. And considering the stuff his character does...I dunno if I actually want him to be good at playing that sort of role. Like, I do in a purely acting sense, but still....

 

1 hour ago, Calli said:

Since you guys mentioned his agency in your posts, I've been wondering, is Studio Santa Claus Entertainment = Huayi Brothers = SIM Entertainment? 

I know Joo Won has been with the same company since the beginning but I'm a bit confused about the changes that happened in between to the company itself. 

 

Yep - Same company, three different names by this point. It probably has to do with changes to the senior administration (shareholders, acquisitions, etc.), but I don't know if it really has any effect on the artists' day-to-day lives or careers.

 

1 hour ago, Calli said:

By the way, I am rewatching Alice at the moment (I initially wanted to start Yong Pal but I kinda got caught up in Alice again and wanting to better understand its ending) and I stumbled on this hellokpop article reviewing the drama and I just loved all the praise the reviewer had for Joo Won. You might have already read it but let me quote it anyway: "Making his small screen return after being discharged from the military service, one thing remains truer than ever - Joo Won's acting never disappoints." (more praise follows) 

 

33 minutes ago, kireeti2 said:

Like, initial episodes were good, and plot line was excellent up to episode 6, but after that the writers underutilized the rest of the cast members and solely dependent on main leads to carry the forward the plot. So, for me a good drama is optimum utilization of all the cast members rather than banking on popular leads. So, drama did not reach its potential despite excellent and moving performance of main leads.

 

I second @kireeti2's assessment re: the supporting cast - because they really were amazing at their respective parts, and I would have liked to see more from them - but I'm actually one of the few people you'll come across, @Calli, who actually liked the ending, including the post-reset stuff  Like, the whole bit about the Teacher and what he represents...I was confused at first (I thought the twist was just for the sake of shock value), but when I realized that the whole point was for Jin Gyeom to fight his "dark" self and set events on a different path that wasn't bound by the prophecy, I was like, "Oh...I get it now!" Because, well, don't we all have to do that in our lives, albeit in less literal terms? And I loved Alice's ultimate lesson about time: that we're not doomed by the wrong things we have done in the past to be bad people in the future, because at any point in time, we can choose to do the right thing and make a new start. So I saw the reset to 2010 and everything afterward as Jin Gyeom's "new start".

[Calli]

27 minutes ago, kittyna said:

I'm actually one of the few people you'll come across, @Calli, who actually liked the ending, including the post-reset stuff  Like, the whole bit about the Teacher and what he represents...I was confused at first (I thought the twist was just for the sake of shock value), but when I realized that the whole point was for Jin Gyeom to fight his "dark" self and set events on a different path that wasn't bound by the prophecy, I was like, "Oh...I get it now!" Because, well, don't we all have to do that in our lives, albeit in less literal terms? And I loved Alice's ultimate lesson about time: that we're not doomed by the wrong things we have done in the past to be bad people in the future, because at any point in time, we can choose to do the right thing and make a new start. So I saw the reset to 2010 and everything afterward as Jin Gyeom's "new start".

 

Oh, I didn't mean that I didn't like the ending of Alice. I literally meant that I'm rewatching in the hope of understanding it better^^ There were a lot of ends that I felt weren't as neatly tied together by the finale as I had hoped while watching the drama for the first time - and as the first episodes had promised. I was left with quite a few questions that I hoped a rewatch might somehow answer, at least in part. Personally I'm a big fan of what Joo Won called "human science fiction". Even though I'm a 90s kid, I love Star Trek TNG and Star Wars and Doctor Who (at least some seasons) so besides the fact that I would have watched Alice purely for the sake of JW, it actually already was on my Netflix to-watch list before I crossed paths with JW, purely because of the storyline. 

What I personally loved the most when it comes to main messages within Alice was the message that what really matters is the present, the here and now and the people we love and who love us in the here and now. So instead of what-if-ing and wishing we could go back to the past to redo certain things, it would be much wiser to live in the present and make the best possible choices now, instead of dwelling on regrets and living in the past... 

But there are still many aspects of the storyline that remained unclear to me, hence my rewatch. Plus, I can appreciate Joo Won's acting and all the subtle nuances of how he brought PJG to life all over again 

I will definitely keep your interpretation about the Teacher in mind @kittynawhile rewatching. I think it helped me already a little bit to shed some light on some of my unanswered questions, so thank you~ 

[kittyna]

By the way, @Calli, I actually did write a review of sorts for Alice after watching it in "real time" in the fall, so that should give you a better take on my overall views about the drama.

[Calli]

18 hours ago, kittyna said:

By the way, @Calli, I actually did write a review of sorts for Alice after watching it in "real time" in the fall, so that should give you a better take on my overall views about the drama.

Thanks so much @kittynafor pointing me to that page of the Joo Won thread and your analysis (so there wasn't a separate Alice topic within the forum then?)

I thought many of the points you made were very interesting and enlightening but sadly still can't explain or answer a lot of the questions I'm left with after my rewatch. I personally think that the dimension or parallel universe in which our PJG managed to bring about a reset/restart (which was universal in its consequences) kept existing - so in that universe in which a different teenage PJG actually finished singing the birthday song for his mom AND decided on his own to accompany her to buy some soju (maybe because our PJG was around and his goodness was affecting that already good teenage-parallel-universe PJG further?), and in which he never saw his mother murdered, he actually did go on to do all the things our PJG said he'd do in his inner monologue before he disappeared. Namely become a detective and him and his mom living their lives happily, with that universe's PJG unaware of everything and his mom retaining her memories of everything. So time travel did happen in that universe (when Yoon Taeyi went there in 1992 and decided to stay) but with our PJG bringing about a reset/restart the door of time closed and the connection between the different universes/dimensions closed as well. 

 

Now, as to what's happening in our universe - where our PJG and Yoon Taeyi are from - after said reset/restart, I'm very very fuzzy on still. Apparently everything that happened in the past as we know it did take place - hence the necklace PJG gave the professor still being in her possession. But somehow she's the only one who still has memories of what happened pre-reset. And somehow in this version of their universe, PJG's mom isn't Park Sun-young or at the very least doesn't look like her because otherwise post-reset architect PJG would at least have stopped and stared at the woman whom he encountered outside the hanok he was restoring and who looked exactly like his mother (or a younger version of his mother). But instead he didn't recognize her at all. For our PJG to still exist in our universe, it would still have to mean that Yoon Taeyi time travelled to 1992 from 2050 and decided to stay in order to give birth to him (at least that's what makes sense in my head). But somehow all of that was forgotten? And when the door of time closed in 2010 in EVERY dimension, everyone except for Yoon Taeyi got a collective memory wipe and PJG's mom didn't look like Yoon Taeyi anymore? (EDIT: or his mother actually died in 2010 but with the reset he forgot about everything that happened before and he went on to become an architect, subconsciously remembering his Yoon Taeyi's words about space saving time) And when post-reset PJG encounters Yoon Taeyi again in 2020 his memory slowly comes back? 

 

Clearly none of that makes any proper sense and I'd love to ask the Alice writing team so many questions but obviously that will never happen^^ 

Interestingly, even though I'm left with a gazillion questions again, even after watching Alice twice, I still really enjoyed this drama. Storyline wise, even if it fell short of my expectations in terms of tying all its loose ends by the finale, the questions/messages that were raised were really worthwhile pondering - the importance of living in the present instead of the past, that we write our "fate" anew daily with the choices we make, etc. The main characters were really well written imo and were brought to life so brilliantly by both Joo Won and Kim Hee Sun. 

Alice was my second Joo Won drama (after Good Doctor) and it deepened my appreciation for his acting ability even more. To say the least. I'm really glad he picked that character and that project as his comeback drama after serving in the military.

And now I'm left hoping he'll come back with another great character & drama, worthy of his effort & talent, soon 

Till then, thankfully there are lots of older Joo Won dramas and movies to watch that will deepen my love/appreciation/obsession for him even more, I'm sure^^

 

 

Edited April 5, 2021 by Calli

[kittyna]

3 hours ago, Calli said:

Thanks so much @kittynafor pointing me to that page of the Joo Won thread and your analysis (so there wasn't a separate Alice topic within the forum then?)

 

There was - but I personally was more active here.

 

3 hours ago, Calli said:

So time travel did happen in that universe (when Yoon Taeyi went there in 1992 and decided to stay) but with our PJG bringing about a reset/restart the door of time closed and the connection between the different universes/dimensions closed as well. 

 

I actually hadn't thought of that before: i.e. the concept that time travel still existed, but was only contained in one universe without affecting any of the others around it.

 

3 hours ago, Calli said:

Now, as to what's happening in our universe - where our PJG and Yoon Taeyi are from - after said reset/restart, I'm very very fuzzy on still. Apparently everything that happened in the past as we know it did take place - hence the necklace PJG gave the professor still being in her possession. But somehow she's the only one who still has memories of what happened pre-reset. And somehow in this version of their universe, PJG's mom isn't Park Sun-young or at the very least doesn't look like her because otherwise post-reset architect PJG would at least have stopped and stared at the woman whom he encountered outside the hanok he was restoring and who looked exactly like his mother (or a younger version of his mother). But instead he didn't recognize her at all. For our PJG to still exist in our universe, it would still have to mean that Yoon Taeyi time travelled to 1992 from 2050 and decided to stay in order to give birth to him (at least that's what makes sense in my head). But somehow all of that was forgotten? And when the door of time closed in 2010 in EVERY dimension, everyone except for Yoon Taeyi got a collective memory wipe and PJG's mom didn't look like Yoon Taeyi anymore? (EDIT: or his mother actually died in 2010 but with the reset he forgot about everything that happened before and he went on to become an architect, subconsciously remembering his Yoon Taeyi's words about space saving time) And when post-reset PJG encounters Yoon Taeyi again in 2020 his memory slowly comes back? 

 

I think that the biggest question here would be which universe we've already seen - if any - the new 2020 was from. So I saw it as the continuation of the new post-reset 2010, you see it as a post-reset version of the original 2020, and I've seen some comments saying that it's a completely different parallel universe altogether that Yoon Tae Yi somehow wound up in.

 

4 hours ago, Calli said:

Interestingly, even though I'm left with a gazillion questions again, even after watching Alice twice, I still really enjoyed this drama. Storyline wise, even if it fell short of my expectations in terms of tying all its loose ends by the finale, the questions/messages that were raised were really worthwhile pondering - the importance of living in the present instead of the past, that we write our "fate" anew daily with the choices we make, etc.

 

Same here - I think that the more I watch (or rewatch) Alice, the more I end up thinking that the point isn't necessarily to try to make logical sense of the parallel universes, time travel, etc. Rather, I think it's actually about philosophy and psychology (i.e. human nature) and unpacking the sci-fi elements to see what lessons we can learn - and there are many.

 

For example, those who were active on this forum while I was writing my episode-by-episode analyses would know that I frequently compared Alice to Oedipus: not in the literal "kill his father and marry his mother" sense, but in the way that attempts to prevent a prophecy from taking place end up putting its fulfilment into motion. So, in this case, the Teacher and the time travellers' attempts to prevent the stop of time travel actually wound up bringing that end about, and it's the one who doesn't believe in the prophecy at all (Jin Gyeom) who ends up seeing a different path ahead.

 

And that led me to reflect on the Teacher himself, and his belief that just by virtue of being born, he was set up for failure and predestined to be a monster. I remember at the time that I said that that line of thinking wasn't logical, but it was very human. A lot of us end up in that "fixed mindset" where we assume we simply are who we are, but that can have major detrimental effects for ourselves and others if we apply that fixed mindset to our faults. Which is, unfortunately, far too common in this world: i.e., people excusing their toxic or unethical behaviours by saying, "This is me - I'm just being true to myself," or (to their parents or elders), "If you hadn't messed me up, I wouldn't be like this."

 

As for the concept of time travel itself, I think the biggest point of reflection for me rests in Seok Oh Won's character: or, rather, both versions of him. We know the good Seok Oh Won believes that time travel is theoretically possible - he even teaches that as a subject - but he also believes that just because people can do something doesn't mean they should. For instance, one of the most fascinating "blink and you'll miss it" character details is that the good Seok Oh Won is the only character in the entire story to hold any sort of religious belief (he's Catholic - you see him with a rosary after he's abducted), and that seems to have influenced his mentality towards time travel as a whole, as he says to Jin Gyeom that time should remain in the hands of God (or "the gods", depending on how you translate it).

 

However, that belief is conspicuously absent in his parallel version. I do get the sense that the evil Seok Oh Won might still be religious, but it's a corrupted form of religion where he assumes that time travel being possible (via the Teacher's influence/presence and the 2050 Tae Yi's breakthrough re: negative energy) means that God has naturally allowed it. He's become an arrogant, self-righteous hypocrite who's willing to go to extreme lengths to protect what he considers his (his research, his discovery/invention, etc.).

 

Long story short: having a "fixed mindset" about the wrongs you caused (deliberately or inadvertently) screws you over, so we should adopt a "growth"/repentance-based mindset instead  

[Calli]

1 hour ago, kittyna said:

I actually hadn't thought of that before: i.e. the concept that time travel still existed, but was only contained in one universe without affecting any of the others around it.

Oh, that's not exactly what I meant to be honest. The only way I could understand the events that followed the reset/restart was that even after the reset, the door of time had been opened by his mother in the past and that through our PJG's actions it was merely closed again - his actions didn't undo the opening. That remains unchanged. Otherwise I'm having a hard time understanding how PJG keeps existing - in any universe we saw in Alice. Which was also his mother's fear, hence her preferring to keep the cycle going instead of ending it.

 

I love what you wrote about the fallacy of self-fulfilling prophecy within Alice. I agree wholeheartedly with your analysis, including your conclusion of how important it is to avoid a fixed mindset and always remain open to self-reflection and growth. 

 

What I kept wondering about while watching the final two episodes again - and this might be really stupid but please bear with me - is what exactly had happened in the previous cycles for the younger PJG to turn into the old, bitter future PJG. I mean, I know what happens is that the younger PJG sees his mother murdered and grows bitter, chooses to become the Lord of Time - convinced that he's bound by The Prophecy - and goes on to kill countless people to keep time travel going. Or something along those lines. But in those previous cycles, doesn't the younger PJG end up killing his older self, too?

I'm probably not explaining this right. So, in the cycle we see our PJG in, the difference is that his mother kills herself instead of being killed by old, future PJG. And supposedly what's also different is that our PJG choses to kill his old, future PJG hence bringing about the reset. Doing in fact exactly what The Prophecy said in order to close the door of time: “Her destroyer son can only be killed by her creation. Only then will time start moving again”.  So, our PJG chooses to be "the creation" that kills "her destroyer son" aka future PJG who chose to become the Lord of Time. And then time does indeed start moving again, apparently from 2010 forward. In all the dimensions/parallel universes we saw. My question is, what happened before, between the other versions of young and old PJG to keep the cycle going? And isn't The Prophecy proven right in the end after all, with out PJG accomplishing the reset by doing exactly what The Prophecy said needed to be done to get out of this vicious cycle? 

 I got a headache just typing this up, so please feel free to ignore this question/musing. I wonder if Joo Won was clear on all the hows and whys of the storyline while filming those final episodes... I'd love to pick his brain.

 

Either way though, like I said before, even with my many unanswered questions, I really enjoyed Alice because just like you said @kittyna, I think the observations and interpretations the drama makes/prompts on human nature are very meaningful and top any apparent inconsistency there might be in storytelling (though I'm convinced that hearing the writers'/creator's explanations might bring a lot more clarity on the time-travel aspects of the storyline, too). 

Edited April 5, 2021 by Calli