Joo Won 주원 [Current Drama 2024 - The Midnight Studio/ 야한(夜限) 사진관]

[kireeti2]

4 minutes ago, kittyna said:

Full disclosure: I haven't watched Stranger yet, so I actually don't know what sort of dynamic you're referring to. Would you mind elaborating, please?

So, the male is sort of like our Joo won's character as well. He was also bullied in high school and was called as psycho, and he is also diagnosed with "Apathy". That's why I think the Joo won's and Lee Da-In will also have similar dynamics. In the stranger kdrams the female is a police detective with humanistic approach and goes out of her way to help victims, so the character descriptios of Joo won and Lee Da-In is on similar lines with the male and female lead of strangers k-drama series. And the relationship of the male and female leads starts with a corruption case and they meet in a special task force to investigate the corruption case, so as the case progresses they both form mutual feelings for eachother. But , in Alice, I feel like Joo won and Lee Da-In are sort of school freinds, if not friends at least as an acquaintance. So, I think they're relationship will be like main lead's relationship of "stranger" season 1

[kittyna]

9 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

But , in Alice, I feel like Joo won and Lee Da-In are sort of school freinds, if not friends at least as an acquaintance. So, I think they're relationship will be like main lead's relationship of "stranger" season 1

 

10 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Here's the synopsis of Lee Da-In character

 

It took me a couple of tries to read what it said (you can pause Instagram stories on the phone, but not on a computer - or, at least, I haven't figured out how yet ), but it does look like she has feelings for him in Alice. We'll have to see where it goes.

 

21 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

I might add joo won looks very different with this hairstyle, like a totally different person with classy look

 

Rather than the hairstyle, I noticed that he's wearing a scarf again. That's such a JW move, to be honest. 

 

Also, a fan tracked down what watch he's wearing.

[mystylee33]

On 7/29/2020 at 9:37 AM, kireeti2 said:

And the promotion for the "Alice" drama has begun. I was smiling throughout the video, the casting for the drama  is perfect, I hope everyone gave their best performance for the drama, I am excited for the drama and can barely wait 

 

Now Coming to analysis of the script reading, I guess, that drama has all the elements of high rating drama,like good comedy, action scenes, heartwarming moments, intense confrontations and suspense, and I really wish that Alice to get ratings between 15% - to 20%, since the dramas of Joo won's peers went south and were not able to at least garner 10% viewership, despite their stardom and international fan base. But, seeing the dramas like "Dr. Romantic 2 (27%)and Hot Stove League (19%)" achieve more than 15% viewership gives me hope that if the drama has a decent story backed with good writers, then any drama can achieve more than 15% viewership in the current climate where even the so called Hallyu star's dramas are not able to maintain 10%+ ratings continuously, recent drama being "Backstreet Rookie", where it sort of tried all type of pop culture reference, cameos, but was not able go past 10% viewership till now, which proves that drama needs solid story and serious writing to garner viewership.

 

And also, I would like ship Joo won with Lee Da-In. I know, it's not drama which is based on Love theme and there will be few scenes where we can ship or at least feel like two characters to fall in love. But, it's been long time since I have shipped Joo won's character. And, going with the story line it would hard to even think that Kim Hee-Seo character to have a  love angle with joo won's character, and that leaves us with Yeon Woo and Lee Da-In, but I don't really want to ship Joo won with Yeon Woo. For reasons like, she is sort of too young and in real life I don't see joo won ending up with a woman who is that young, and also, I think Joo won treated her like a Junior- cum- Little sister so it is hard for me to ship him with her. And in the released  two teasers we sort of  can see that Joo won's  interaction is more with Lee Da-In's character , so I think  they would share a platonic relationship, sort of like they like each other but don't want to take the relationship to next level. And also, I would like to clarify that my shipping is confined  to drama and not in real life, because that would be toxic

 

Same here!  It's been a long time since I shipped JooWon's character,  this will only be in drama but I like Lee Da In's character here as I know she will play Park Jin Kyeom's only friend,  I think her character goes they got in the same school also.  After years Kim Do Yeon (Lee Da In)  has feelings for him but he didn't realized it,  base on the character introduction posted this gets me interested 

 

"Thanks to this personality, he was the only student who was not afraid of Jingyeom in high school, and the only friend who brought Jingyeom out of the world after his mother's death. However, it is not only because of compassion that Doyeon helped Jingyeom.  ...

 

On the contrary, Doyeon believed that Jingyeom also liked herself, and someday Jingyeom waited for the day to come to realize her feelings. However, unexpected miracles appear. It looks similar to Jingyeom's mother, and is pretty and attractive. So it's too unlucky. However, Jingyeom hangs with the woman. Doyeon, a rival, can no longer be cool. I have to take my feet off somehow to make Jin Gyeom my man. "

 

Looking forward to all of them its getting more excited whenever there is updates about Alice.. 

 

If you haven't read the character introduction here is it, the other characters played by known Actors which are also interesting

 

https://m.programs.sbs.co.kr/drama/alice2020/cast/63366#0_4 

 

 

Edited July 30, 2020 by gm4queen
Mod Edit : Please don't quote images/ videos/ GIFs! Thanks!

[kireeti2]

3 hours ago, mystylee33 said:

 

Looking forward to all of them its getting more excited whenever there is updates about Alice.. 

 

If you haven't read the character introduction here is it, the other characters played by known Actors which are also interesting

 

https://m.programs.sbs.co.kr/drama/alice2020/cast/63366#0_4 

Thanks for sharing the synopsis of all the characters . Now it makes sense , like Kim hee seon is playing dual character, one who is born in 1989 and other is from the future. So his mom is from future and other one is look alike. 

And I am sensing there will be love plot between joo won's character and Lee da-in character, and I think they are childhood friends and I think she is the only one who understood joo won and she might be only friend he had in high school(Another best couple award on the  way?).  I think his "Apathy" issue has something to do with time travel , like, Kim hee seo did a time travel when he was in her womb , hence that time travel created issue on his mental health 

[kittyna]

9 hours ago, mystylee33 said:

Same here!  It's been a long time since I shipped JooWon's character,  this will only be in drama but I like Lee Da In's character here as I know she will play Park Jin Kyeom's only friend,  I think her character goes they got in the same school also.  After years Kim Do Yeon (Lee Da In)  has feelings for him but he didn't realized it,  base on the character introduction posted this gets me interested 

 

That is a really common trope in K-dramas - either the second female lead who grew up friends with the first male lead and now has feelings for him; or the second male lead who grew up friends with the first female lead with the same results. It's something that can be executed really well, but can also feel forced or cliché if the writing isn't great (i.e. let's have her have feelings for him just because we need a love triangle/square/whatever-other-shape). So I'll have to wait and see before deciding whether I like the idea of their characters being in a relationship.

 

I do like the concept of Kim Do Yeon being one of Park Jin Gyeom's main supporters even when they were young, though  It's good to know he wasn't left entirely on his own after his mother's death.

 

7 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

I think his "Apathy" issue has something to do with time travel , like, Kim hee seo did a time travel when he was in her womb , hence that time travel created issue on his mental health 

 

That does seem to be the cause here, since there's mention of him being born in some sort of time travel-related situation.

 

Official stills from the script-reading

[kireeti2]

15 hours ago, kittyna said:

It took me a couple of tries to read what it said (you can pause Instagram stories on the phone, but not on a computer - or, at least, I haven't figured out how yet ), but it does look like she has feelings for him in Alice. We'll have to see where it goes.

Yeah, Instagram is not user friendly when it comes to Laptop or PC users. You can't even vote in Instagram in Instagram stories. 

Coming to our main couple of "Alice", I did saw the Synopsis of all the characters and it turns out Joo won's character has been accused of pushing someone from the school building. And I sense that he will be convicted despite being innocent of the crime and when he was in jail, I guess her mother's fellow time Travelers will kill her. So, I guess we are in for one hell of a emotional rollercoaster ride. And it looks like Lee Da-In's  character had something to do with Joo won's wrongful conviction and when she released that she was wrong, perhaps it was at that moment she started having feelings for him and decides to become a journalist with humanistic approach

 

2 hours ago, kittyna said:

but can also feel forced or cliché if the writing isn't great (i.e. let's have her have feelings for him just because we need a love triangle/square/whatever-other-shape). So I'll have to wait and see before deciding whether I like the idea of their characters being in a relationship.

 

I do like the concept of Kim Do Yeon being one of Park Jin Gyeom's main supporters even when they were young, though  It's good to know he wasn't left entirely on his own after his mother's death.

I guess there won't be any love triangle , rectangle or rhombus. But I did think there will be a situation where male lead will play hard to get for second female lead, like he a guy with Apathy, it'll be interesting to see how will the writers are going to ignite male lead's  feelings towards her. I think it'll be on similar lines of "Stranger" series main couple. As  I am invoking "Stranger" series a lot to compare with Alice, I advice not to see it because male characters from these two series have lot of similar features minus the science fiction and story 

[kittyna]

5 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Coming to our main couple of "Alice", I did saw the Synopsis of all the characters and it turns out Joo won's character has been accused of pushing someone from the school building. And I sense that he will be convicted despite being innocent of the crime and when he was in jail, I guess her mother's fellow time Travelers will kill her. So, I guess we are in for one hell of a emotional rollercoaster ride. And it looks like Lee Da-In's  character had something to do with Joo won's wrongful conviction and when she released that she was wrong, perhaps it was at that moment she started having feelings for him and decides to become a journalist with humanistic approach

 

I doubt that he would have been convicted, because I have a hard time visualizing how someone with a criminal record could become a police detective, even if it was for a past offense. However, I do think that Park Jin Gyeom was at least "crucified by the court of public opinion", if you know that phrase. Hence the graffiti outside his house. His mom and Kim Do Yeon (who may have known the truth about what happened, or at least the truth about him) took his side against everybody else, and...yeah, the rest I think played out similarly to what you said. But again, we won't know for sure until we watch the drama.

 

5 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

But I did think there will be a situation where male lead will play hard to get for second female lead, like he a guy with Apathy, it'll be interesting to see how will the writers are going to ignite male lead's  feelings towards her.

 

Yeah. However they choose to define "apathy" (whether literal or just limited expression of emotion), it'll be interesting to see how the writers handle that.

 

Also, I am very curious about how JW will portray Jin Gyeom's apathy, since he's an actor who's more known for intense displays of emotion than looking/acting reserved in his roles. I remember some of the Dramabeans writers saying that JW has a very emotive face, so I really want to see how he'll hold back on some of that.

 

I should also point out that JW said he got some practice holding back his facial expressions in My Sassy Girl, because he said the gat (i.e. the wide-brimmed black hat Joseon men wore) actually limited them somewhat. My guess is that on top of the wide brim, the chin strap probably stopped him from moving his jaw as much as he normally would  

[kireeti2]

12 hours ago, kittyna said:

Also, I am very curious about how JW will portray Jin Gyeom's apathy, since he's an actor who's more known for intense displays of emotion than looking/acting reserved in his roles. I remember some of the Dramabeans writers saying that JW has a very emotive face, so I really want to see how he'll hold back on some of that.

I think it'll be in similar lines of "Park Si-on" minus the autism. So, I think he does know how to read others emotions and can read the situation like a normal person, but cannot empathize with others. Like, Park Jin Gyeom's character will be similar to the character of "Dexter" minus the psycho nature and killings.

Official posters of Alice

[kireeti2]

Damn!! Detective Park Jin Gyeom is lock and loaded. It almost looked like he will not take no for an answer and will go to any extent to protect his mom or catch his mom's killer (Teaser 3). I guess he get to see mix of  Lee Kang-To and Gu Ma Jun (positive traits from both the characters) and Hwang Tae-Hee(temper)

 

And also, I would like to point out that his maturity of acting has improved, I think now he has the potential to play characters played by "Robert De niro and Al pachino". Like, a mob member or a corrupt cop, of course with an arch in the characters

[kittyna]

6 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

I think it'll be in similar lines of "Park Si-on" minus the autism. So, I think he does know how to read others emotions and can read the situation like a normal person, but cannot empathize with others. Like, Park Jin Gyeom's character will be similar to the character of "Dexter" minus the psycho nature and killings.

 

3 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Damn!! Detective Park Jin Gyeom is lock and loaded. It almost looked like he will not take no for an answer and will go to any extent to protect his mom or catch his mom's killer (Teaser 3). I guess he get to see mix of  Lee Kang-To and Gu Ma Jun (positive traits from both the characters) and Hwang Tae-Hee(temper)

 

After watching the video, I definitely think he's going for the "intense" route - which I know people have been waiting for ever since Yong Pal ended. My Sassy Girl was a completely different genre, so JW had to use a lighter, more comedic approach, but I sense that most people like JW doing the sort of genre and role that we're seeing here with Alice.

 

lol - Even SBS's own throwback to JW's past roles is focused on Yong Pal. 

 

Actually, out of the three past roles you're talking about (Gu Ma Jun, Hwang Tae Hui, and Lee Kang To), I think I'm getting more Kang To vibes than anything else. 

 

By the way, this isn't directly JW-related, but I just stumbled across this video and it's hilarious! To be honest, the vibe I go for in my own couples-writing (most notably Seolleim in Salzburg) is probably more like the "reality" side, but it's still funny to see the drama tropes getting lampooned so badly.

 

Spoiler

Especially the food scene - Yoo Jin and Nae Il would definitely be the "reality", but also reversed (i.e. with Nae Il being the one to eat all the food before Yoo Jin even starts ).

 

The bit where they're going on a walk, too - I think I've lost track of how many times in my fics Nae Il gets cold or something and Yoo Jin's just like, "I told you to wear a jacket/gloves/scarf/etc."  

 

[kireeti2]

30 minutes ago, kittyna said:

By the way, this isn't directly JW-related, but I just stumbled across this video and it's hilarious! To be honest, the vibe I go for in my own couples-writing (most notably Seolleim in Salzburg) is probably more like the "reality" side, but it's still funny to see the drama tropes getting lampooned so badly.

Lol! The video was hilarious Like, the last part was funny as hell, I wasn't expecting him to lift her like that, he really does take his workouts seriously. And also, I think Cha Yoo-jin and Nae-il's life as couple will be the reality part of the video, like, I don't expect that Cha Yoo-jin will ask Nae-il to eat in romantic way, but I do expect him to ask her to wait for him, like, I can imagine a scenario where she did a lot of practice and hungry as hell, she would just devour everything on the table, even the Cha Yoo-jin's portion

By the way, I am seeing lot of videos of international couples from South Korea, but mainly it's Korean husband and foreign wife, I think it as more to do with the domestic violence thing in rural parts of South Korean where usually wife are from south-east Asia and are often abused by their husband, this mad South Korean government to come with a law, to ban men with history of domestic violence from marrying foreign woman. I am not saying that those international couple videos are not genuine, but they are part of soft power tactics of a nation to control the damage done by the domestic violence epidemic in South Korea.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/oct/11/south-korea-bans-men-with-history-of-abuse-from-marrying-foreign-women

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-48917935

[kireeti2]

1 hour ago, kittyna said:

I think I'm getting more Kang To vibes than anything else

I think in first half of drama it will be Kang To and second half it would be Hwang Tae Hee. But I would like to point out that the teasers are keep on getting better. I can only imagine how awesome the trailer is going to be. And I guess, they are going to release trailer for each main character, like, next teaser might be about Kim Hee seo character, and the trailer will be about everyone(main characters and as well as supporting characters)

[kittyna]

2 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

By the way, I am seeing lot of videos of international couples from South Korea, but mainly it's Korean husband and foreign wife, I think it as more to do with the domestic violence thing in rural parts of South Korean where usually wife are from south-east Asia and are often abused by their husband, this mad South Korean government to come with a law, to ban men with history of domestic violence from marrying foreign woman. I am not saying that those international couple videos are not genuine, but they are part of soft power tactics of a nation to control the damage done by the domestic violence epidemic in South Korea.

 

Want to address this one first because it's a bit more serious (less mood whiplash that way).

 

I don't necessarily think the YouTube videos or blogs are meant to counter narratives of racist domestic violence in any official sense - like, I'm sure they're operating independently from what the government or official media wants or intends - because for me, the socio-economic and interracial dynamics are completely different.

 

Most of the YouTube channels or blogs I've seen have been of the AMWF (Asian Male, White Female) variety, although I have also seen ones where it's the reverse (i.e. a Korean girl marrying a White guy). So they're more likely to interrogate or subvery the whole Confucian-based gender dynamic because I think many Caucasian women aren't going to just step back and let their husbands - or, let's be real, in-laws - have full say. And the guys (and their families) who go ahead with these marriages are probably also well aware of these dynamics, so while I don't think that necessarily means domestic violence isn't an issue at all (it still can be, since I don't have official statistics), but it's probably less of an issue than in cases like what the articles describe, where the husband is Korean and the wife is Southeast Asian.

 

Because (and I'm sure you know this, @kireeti2, but it may be a surprise for some other readers) many East Asian cultures have their own preconceived notions of a racial/ethnic hierarchy, where they are situated immediately below Whites, but where everyone else is somewhere beneath them. It doesn't help that today's global economics - where wealth is far more concentrated in East Asia than Southeast Asia - add to the overall disparity, meaning that Southeast Asian migrants are perceived as being willing to undergo abuse in order to, say, make a living and send their earnings back to their home countries (i.e. "I can do whatever I want to you, because you still need me more than I need you."). That's a huge issue in Hong Kong, for instance, where abuse of live-in domestic servants from the Philippines, Indonesia, Cambodia, Thailand, etc. is something of an open secret.

 

https://www.scmp.com/lifestyle/families/article/2069843/beaten-hit-iron-doused-bleach-hong-kong-domestic-helpers-facing

 

Of course, I do think there are many healthy Korean-Southeast Asian relationships out there, too - many people are reasonable, after all. But I just wanted to point out the difference between the power dynamics in a East Asian+White relationship vs. East Asian+everything else relationship.

 

By the way, I should point out that the YouTuber whose video I shared breaks the mold a little bit, since as a Korean guy, he also does his fair share of criticizing English-speaking Hallyu fans' fantasies about what Korean guys are actually like. In short: they're human, just like everyone else, and their image might not reflect their inner personality.

 

(Spoilers for the vid: I still think JW's a genuine "innocent guy", though, rather than the type who plays innocent to get the girls....)

 

And now, moving on to something more lighthearted....

 

2 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Like, the last part was funny as hell, I wasn't expecting him to lift her like that, he really does take his workouts seriously. And also, I think Cha Yoo-jin and Nae-il's life as couple will be the reality part of the video, like, I don't expect that Cha Yoo-jin will ask Nae-il to eat in romantic way, but I do expect him to ask her to wait for him, like, I can imagine a scenario where she did a lot of practice and hungry as hell, she would just devour everything on the table, even the Cha Yoo-jin's portion

 

lol - Re: the workout bit, I was half-expecting the girl to go, "Oh, so now you decide to pick me up!" But yeah, that was just so random 

 

As for Yoo Jin and Nae Il and food, I can see that, too. And then Yoo Jin just stares at the empty plates for a second before he's like, "Ya, Seollebal - jinjja?!?!" And Nae Il would give him the same mock-innocent aegyo look that the guy gives his girlfriend in the video.  

 

And about the "eating romantically" bit, I think Nae Il would try - like, if they're eating together in a restaurant, she'd try to offer Yoo Jin a bite of whatever she's having. But then he'd just ask her to cut a piece and put it on his plate or pass him her fork rather than letting her feed him  

 

47 minutes ago, kireeti2 said:

I can only imagine how awesome the trailer is going to be. And I guess, they are going to release trailer for each main character, like, next teaser might be about Kim Hee seo character, and the trailer will be about everyone(main characters and as well as supporting characters)

 

Ooh...yeah, I'd love to see these little teasers for other characters, too! We'll have to wait and see.

[kireeti2]

Spoiler

1 hour ago, kittyna said:

Want to address this one first because it's a bit more serious (less mood whiplash that way).

 

I don't necessarily think the YouTube videos or blogs are meant to counter narratives of racist domestic violence in any official sense - like, I'm sure they're operating independently from what the government or official media wants or intends - because for me, the socio-economic and interracial dynamics are completely different.

 

Most of the YouTube channels or blogs I've seen have been of the AMWF (Asian Male, White Female) variety, although I have also seen ones where it's the reverse (i.e. a Korean girl marrying a White guy). So they're more likely to interrogate or subvery the whole Confucian-based gender dynamic because I think many Caucasian women aren't going to just step back and let their husbands - or, let's be real, in-laws - have full say. And the guys (and their families) who go ahead with these marriages are probably also well aware of these dynamics, so while I don't think that necessarily means domestic violence isn't an issue at all (it still can be, since I don't have official statistics), but it's probably less of an issue than in cases like what the articles describe, where the husband is Korean and the wife is Southeast Asian.

I think I had generalized the topic too much. So, I will elaborate it. First of all, I concede to your argument that "YouTube or Blogs"(mostly) are not used as a counter narrative by a country. As you are Blogger yourself, I am sorry, if my comments were offensive. What I meant was, Soft power is something a country uses to promote it's good traits of a country through mediums of media(which includes YouTube, if your are aware even in North Korea there a youtuber who promotes that North Korea is free country and there is nothing wrong in the country: From KoreanHerald. 

Sample from North Korean YouTuber

For instances, take my country, Bollywood is the main soft power of India, which sort of only tries to create a narrative that people are happy and randomly dances in the street, and as you can main female lead have fair complex and her only job is to fall in love with main male lead. Which gives a perception that India women are good housewife material and they are the one who'll always make compromises in the relationship(And also lack of diversity, I am not elaborating it because I cannot do justification with few words). That soft power of any country is only used to promote only good things about the a country(mostly to boost tourism), and also I never knew there were Indigenous in Canada and also they standard of living and crime against Indigenous women more than non-indigenous. The soft power of Canada was so influential that I thought it was some kind of heaven on earth(Like everyone one is nice, secular, and always apology)

Spoiler

1 hour ago, kittyna said:

Because (and I'm sure you know this, @kireeti2, but it may be a surprise for some other readers) many East Asian cultures have their own preconceived notions of a racial/ethnic hierarchy, where they are situated immediately below Whites, but where everyone else is somewhere beneath them. It doesn't help that today's global economics - where wealth is far more concentrated in East Asia than Southeast Asia - add to the overall disparity, meaning that Southeast Asian migrants are perceived as being willing to undergo abuse in order to, say, make a living and send their earnings back to their home countries (i.e. "I can do whatever I want to you, because you still need me more than I need you."). That's a huge issue in Hong Kong, for instance, where abuse of live-in domestic servants from the Philippines, Indonesia, Cambodia, Thailand, etc. is something of an open secret.

Yes, I did heard of this ethnic superiority in East Asian societies. Like, Japanese think they are superior than Koreans and Chinese. That's the main reason they don't accept refugees and never accept inter-racial children, but they do make exception for Caucasians, it's also true in Korea also, they do look down on South East Asian people, but are more welcoming towards Caucasians

 

1 hour ago, kittyna said:

(Spoilers for the vid: I still think JW's a genuine "innocent guy", though, rather than the type who plays innocent to get the girls....)

That goes without saying. joo won is kind of shy around women, we can clearly see his interaction with Women in 1 Day and 2 Nights. He always compare himself with Park Si-on character in ever interview, not like autism part, but like shy around new people and reserved nature.

 

1 hour ago, kittyna said:

And about the "eating romantically" bit, I think Nae Il would try - like, if they're eating together in a restaurant, she'd try to offer Yoo Jin a bite of whatever she's having. But then he'd just ask her to cut a piece and put it on his plate or pass him her fork rather than letting her feed him  

I think due to the height difference Joo won would see that coming and will quickly activate his defenses against Nae-il and I think Nae-il wouldn't even get a chance to like, at least  try to feed him, and end up giving some of her food in a separate plate

[kittyna]

Spoiler

7 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

I think I had generalized the topic too much. So, I will elaborate it. First of all, I concede to your argument that "YouTube or Blogs"(mostly) are not used as a counter narrative by a country. As you are Blogger yourself, I am sorry, if my comments were offensive. What I meant was, Soft power is something a country uses to promote it's good traits of a country through mediums of media(which includes YouTube

 

Oh, no - I'm not offended! I have no real personal stake in this (I did blog before, but I haven't touched that page in ages - maybe I should, but I barely have enough leisure time for fics as it is without adding any other major projects to the list), but even if I did, I'm more than well aware that each country's media will try to focus almost predominantly on its positive stereotypes. 

 

And, in the case of Canada, at least, that comes from the citizens, too - because we tend to get so hung up on promoting how we're different from Americans and (unfortunately) the easiest way to do it is to focus on ways we're "better". So...more polite, more racially tolerant (which is, as you pointed out, debatable, but that's the stereotype), with access to public health care, better gun regulations, etc.

 

7 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

For instances, take my country, Bollywood is the main soft power of India, which sort of only tries to create a narrative that people are happy and randomly dances in the street, and as you can main female lead have fair complex and her only job is to fall in love with main male lead. Which gives a perception that India women are good housewife material and they are the one who'll always make compromises in the relationship

 

If you want me to be brutally honest in my opinion, I think that a lot of the media hype concerning Hallyu fosters a fantasy of both Korean men and Korean women that's just not realistic. More so men, from my observation, but that's because I'm a woman and most of the really vocal Western K-pop and K-drama fandom is as well. So, the video I shared earlier about the creepier/darker side to how Korean guys flirt...yeah, that's really about shattering the stereotype that Korean guys (or East Asian guys in general) are all just sweet, innocent, aegyo-filled gentlemen. Some genuinely are, of course (because all personality types exist everywhere, so there's bound to be some), but some North American girls do end up with the misconception that Korean guys are, let's just say, purer than their North American counterparts.

 

To be honest, I sometimes end up wanting to believe that, too. However, for me, it's less about creating a fantasy where all Korean guys are that innocent and pure, but getting a sense of comfort and reassurance that at least some are. And I will say that engaging with Korea's pop culture has helped me gain a stronger sense of pride in my own East Asian identity and traditional (even by Chinese Canadian standards) Confucian-based upbringing, so that's a plus.  

 

Not that Confucianism doesn't have its flaws, but at least I now feel like I'm not some sort of freak for thinking and feeling the way I do about, say, my relationships with my parents/teachers/etc. And I actually have to credit JW for much of that, so there you go.

 

7 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

That goes without saying. joo won is kind of shy around women, we can clearly see his interaction with Women in 1 Day and 2 Nights. He always compare himself with Park Si-on character in ever interview, not like autism part, but like shy around new people and reserved nature.

 

Also, it should be noted from the video that some of the creepy fake-stereotype-based flirting is aimed at expat rather than Korean women - most Korean girls, I imagine, would be able to see through most of that sort of BS. So if JW says something like he's innocent to a predominantly Korean audience (like he did during some King of Baking, Kim Tak Gu interviews), I think we need to take it within its original context.

 

7 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

I think due to the height difference Joo won would see that coming and will quickly activate his defenses against Nae-il and I think Nae-il wouldn't even get a chance to like, at least  try to feed him, and end up giving some of her food in a separate plate

 

lol - I think if Yoo Jin tries to dodge, Nae Il will end up chasing him around trying (like she does in the final episode of the drama when he denies her a kiss).  So when push comes to shove, he has to decide whether it would be more embarrassing for him to just let her feed him (albeit on his terms - like just putting it on his plate) or to have her chase him around and start pulling out all the aegyo along the way.

 

Oh, well. He'll learn to pick his battles. Eventually.  

[kireeti2]

Spoiler

4 hours ago, kittyna said:

If you want me to be brutally honest in my opinion, I think that a lot of the media hype concerning Hallyu fosters a fantasy of both Korean men and Korean women that's just not realistic. More so men, from my observation, but that's because I'm a woman and most of the really vocal Western K-pop and K-drama fandom is as well. So, the video I shared earlier about the creepier/darker side to how Korean guys flirt...yeah, that's really about shattering the stereotype that Korean guys (or East Asian guys in general) are all just sweet, innocent, aegyo-filled gentlemen. Some genuinely are, of course (because all personality types exist everywhere, so there's bound to be some), but some North American girls do end up with the misconception that Korean guys are, let's just say, purer than their North American counterparts.

As man, it's for me about Korean women. Like, the portrayal of women in K-drama lacks diversity, like, if you see they are shown slim and with lot of make up, giving a misconception that all the Korean women are beautiful and also they act cute all the time and are innocent and need help from their boyfriend. I am not saying that I don't think Korean women are beautiful in reality also, everyone is beautiful it depends on the person who is look at that someone. What I meant was, the beauty in K-drama is defined by cosmetic products, like it is the back bone of K-drama sponsorship. And also, I often find they use Korean women with let's just say not very slim as comedians or use them do jokes like "Falling in love with her is some kind a bad thing", like some sort of body shaming. And I do not want to talk of the costumes they choose for girl group members, I am not saying that I am not comfortable with that, but I found few videos of performance where few members from girl group were not comfortable with their outfit, like they were too short and revealing for them. I did find videos on youtube where they explain that not all Korean women are like women from K-drama and they come in all shapes and sizes and they too have independent personality

 

4 hours ago, kittyna said:

lol - I think if Yoo Jin tries to dodge, Nae Il will end up chasing him around trying (like she does in the final episode of the drama when he denies her a kiss).  So when push comes to shove, he has to decide whether it would be more embarrassing for him to just let her feed him (albeit on his terms - like just putting it on his plate) or to have her chase him around and start pulling out all the aegyo along the way.

 

Oh, well. He'll learn to pick his battles. Eventually.  

Lol, It reminded me of episode where Nae-il tries to hug Cha Yoo Jin and he stop her by placing his hand on her forehand, it's like watching cartoon with good graphics

 

It turn out there is a possibility that Yoo Min-Hyeok  is father of Park jin Gyeom

In this synopsis it is written that Kim Hee Seo from the future is in relationship with Yoo Min Hyeok played by Kwak si-yang, so that makes them Mother and Father of Park Jin Gyeom

[kittyna]

10 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

It turn out there is a possibility that Yoo Min-Hyeok  is father of Park jin Gyeom

In this synopsis it is written that Kim Hee Seo from the future is in relationship with Yoo Min Hyeok played by Kwak si-yang, so that makes them Mother and Father of Park Jin Gyeom

 

From what I could figure out from the character synopses, it looks like Kim Hee Sun is not so much playing two people, but the same person living in two separate contexts and identities. Because most of Park Sun Young's bio still refers to her as Tae Yi - she goes back in time with Yoo Min Hyuk and then discovers she's pregnant and chooses to stay in the past under a new name 

 

In other words...called it. 

 

Also, JW's character teaser has been translated into English. It looks like he's not just trying to bring his mother's murderer(s) to justice, but kill them. Maybe this is where the apathy comes in???

 

Spoiler

10 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

What I meant was, the beauty in K-drama is defined by cosmetic products, like it is the back bone of K-drama sponsorship. And also, I often find they use Korean women with let's just say not very slim as comedians or use them do jokes like "Falling in love with her is some kind a bad thing", like some sort of body shaming.

 

From visiting Seoul, I definitely think the majority of Korean women are pretty average, actually, in terms of their build. However, at the same time, people can be very upfront and direct about weight, clothing size, etc. So, I remember that I was in a shopping area in Dongdaemun and was just walking through each store (not to buy necessarily, but just out of curiosity), and I wound up in a shop that sold plus size clothing. The ahjumma in charge saw me and immediately called out that she didn't have my size. 

 

I'm not skinny, but not overweight either - just pretty average/in the middle. So for me, it was just funny, since I was able to find something that fit me just about everywhere else in Seoul (especially since the trend at the time was for looser-fitting tops, unlike the West where small sizes are literally skintight). However, I have heard stories of customers who were a bit bigger (either in terms of weight or just literally with a bigger build because of their ethnicity) being turned away from stores for the same reason. I got the sense that that was the norm in Korea and that the shop owner even thought she was being helpful in a "I don't have what you want, so don't waste your time on me" sort of way, but I can see how that would hurt.

 

And JW pointed out himself that almost all of his female classmates in university (i.e. the fellow drama/theatre students) were tall and slim. I don't know if their appearance affected their acceptance into the program, or if only girls who met the ideal visualized themselves succeeding enough to actually apply, but it's something to think about. I hadn't at first, but I do think there's something to it now.

 

[EDIT]

 

By the way, coming back to Nae Il's Cantabile for a second - am I the only who noticed that, when Cha Yoo Jin was cleaning out Nae Il's apartment, she was not so much upset that he saw her bra, but that he now knew how small her size was? Someone's got their priorities a bit mixed up, don't you think?

 

10 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

And I do not want to talk of the costumes they choose for girl group members, I am not saying that I am not comfortable with that, but I found few videos of performance where few members from girl group were not comfortable with their outfit, like they were too short and revealing for them.

 

To be honest, I'm not a fan of those outfits either. I understand that modesty is coded differently in East Asia than it is in North America (in North America, showing cleavage is more acceptable than showing a lot of one's leg, and vice-versa in East Asia), but I'm not comfortable showing either, so it's sometimes really awkward to look at.

 

[kireeti2]

3 hours ago, kittyna said:

In other words...called it. 

Wow! You are such genius. Can you also call who is going to win US election this November? Since it is important for existent of the world as we know 

3 hours ago, kittyna said:

it looks like Kim Hee Sun is not so much playing two people, but the same person living in two separate contexts and identities. Because most of Park Sun Young's bio still refers to her as Tae Yi - she goes back in time with Yoo Min Hyuk and then discovers she's pregnant and chooses to stay in the past under a new name 

I do think this a possible plot for Kim Hee-Seon character. But, I am more interested about how the drama is going to explain this

Spoiler

3 hours ago, kittyna said:

The ahjumma in charge saw me and immediately called out that she didn't have my size. 

Wow! She just assumed your size  just by looking at you. Does her eyes have some kind of Samsung scanner to scan customers size? But, I do think some people might take offence to such kind of comments, even though they same the time of the customer, it's up to the customer to choose

 

Spoiler

3 hours ago, kittyna said:

To be honest, I'm not a fan of those outfits either.

of course you wouldn't be they are mostly to attract fan-boys(in other words male audience)

Spoiler

3 hours ago, kittyna said:

I definitely think the majority of Korean women are pretty average

I think in K-drama they do exaggerate the beauty of every female actor with make up and lighting, like, even the non-main female actors look pretty regardless of age. But, I will take your assessment with pinch of salt, since most woman find other woman pretty average(implicit bias)

Spoiler

3 hours ago, kittyna said:

but I'm not comfortable showing either, so it's sometimes really awkward to look at.

Good for youI think one should wear whatever is comfortable to him/her, like, clothes should make us feel comfortable, I really hate wearing outfits for the sake of crowd or friends 

Spoiler

3 hours ago, kittyna said:

And JW pointed out himself that almost all of his female classmates in university (i.e. the fellow drama/theatre students) were tall and slim

I think this stereotype that East Asians men/women being slim or skinny is sort of true. Like, they are able to keep their obesity population/overweight population and lifestyle disease check is due to their dietary habits. Like, I have read in lot of reports that East Asians still practice the ancient receipts in their dietary habits and always eat nutrition food rather than cheap oil food at McDonald's or KFC and top of that nutrition food in East Asia is indigenous to the place and are affordable. Now that we are in the food topic, did you try the famous Korean fried chicken? When you visited Korea?  Like, it is present in every K-drama as a product placement and I heard it is famous for its spiciness 

 

Spoiler

3 hours ago, kittyna said:

By the way, coming back to Nae Il's Cantabile for a second - am I the only who noticed that, when Cha Yoo Jin was cleaning out Nae Il's apartment, she was not so much upset that he saw her bra, but that he now knew how small her size was? Someone's got their priorities a bit mixed up, don't you think?

Well, the thing is whatever you heard about men is 99% right, and I claim to be no saint either. It's something which we are hard wired like that, but not all men prefer to know the size you know or to say, size doesn't matter. And I also, I do remember Nae-il defending herself also, like, she  rebutted to Cha Yoo Jin that "she is not A-CUP"

 

Spoiler

3 hours ago, kittyna said:

I'm not skinny, but not overweight either - just pretty average/in the middle.

In other words, you are an health adult. These corporate companies have sort of made being Skinny synonymous to being health, like weight as not to do with health, as long a person is following health diet and does adequate physical activity he/she will have a long and healthy life. Even Yoga is being propagated as weight loss exercise, which is total BS, it's only about keeping one's mind calm and health in other words a breathing exercise. And another biggest scam of these corporate's is cleaning of the body from inside, like, kidneys, liver and whole digestive system is just for show or what?!

 

[kittyna]

Spoiler

  

3 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

I think this stereotype that East Asians men/women being slim or skinny is sort of true. Like, they are able to keep their obesity population/overweight population and lifestyle disease check is due to their dietary habits.

 

Since we're sort of on the subject of East Asian (specifically Korean) beauty standards to begin with, I thought I'd share some of the sources I found looking at this phenomenon from different angles:

 

1. The scientific/biological angle - turns out, there are genetic factors at play here:

 

This one also does a really good job at explaining Japan's kawaii culture - which you can arguably extend to Korean aegyo,

 

 

2. The comparative (but also rather uncomfortably clickbait-y - i.e. if tons of shirtless guys aren't your thing, then skip this) angle:

 

Personally, I will say that I'm not a fan of the really buffed up muscular sort of build, because I associate that with a dangerous amount of physical strength. But that's just me. So out of these examples...I think I do end up veering Asian somewhat.

 

 

3. The social/cultural angle: https://theconversation.com/un-designing-masculinities-k-pop-and-the-new-global-man-22335

 

In this article, what I found particularly interesting was how the author linked the growing obsession with body building among Korean guys with increased globalization and exposure to Western media (where the ideal, among White and Black men alike, has been for a larger build).

 

As for the girls...I think we're all well aware of how exclusive the beauty standards are. However, I do want to say that when it comes to fashion (clothing, makeup, hairstyles, etc.), where I live, the vast majority of girls I see who look like they've just walked out of a K-drama (so, clothes in line with Korean trends, really pale faces with bright red lipstick, loosely waved hair, etc.)...are actually Chinese.

 

3 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Well, the thing is whatever you heard about men is 99% right, and I claim to be no saint either. It's something which we are hard wired like that, but not all men prefer to know the size you know or to say, size doesn't matter. And I also, I do remember Nae-il defending herself also, like, she  rebutted to Cha Yoo Jin that "she is not A-CUP"

 

Sometimes, I wish the scene had been extended just a second or two longer, because I really want to know what Yoo Jin's reaction was to Nae Il getting all up in his face about that.

 

(Moving this part out of "spoilers" because it's safer/more kid-friendly)

 

3 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Now that we are in the food topic, did you try the famous Korean fried chicken? When you visited Korea?  Like, it is present in every K-drama as a product placement and I heard it is famous for its spiciness

 

I did, but not a spicy version. I'm not big on spicy food, unfortunately. Or maybe, since you're Indian, I should clarify: I like aromatic spices but not hot spices. So, say, South Asian foods that use minimal or no chili peppers, I actually really like. But things like chili/wasabi/etc...nope. Can't do it. Even just a little and my face gets really red, I start feeling really hot, my nose runs, etc.

 

As you can imagine, that's the one thing about me that made traveling to Korea...interesting  

[kireeti2]

1 hour ago, kittyna said:

So, say, South Asian foods that use minimal or no chili peppers

Lol! No chilies? We consider any dish without chili or spiciness  as a dessert, we add chilies even in our breakfast. I thought Chinese are no strangers of spicy food. Since lot of spicy fast food are from Chinese cuisine. I know you were born and brought up in Canada, but at least at home you would have spicy food

Spoiler

1 hour ago, kittyna said:

1. The scientific/biological angle - turns out, there are genetic factors at play here:

 

This one also does a really good job at explaining Japan's kawaii culture - which you can arguably extend to Korean aegyo,

Oh, so it has to do with natural selection thing. Glad that it explains why I find East Asian women, especially Japanese women cute(For the record I just admire the cuteness, not like it would be sole purpose to get into relationship or strike a friendly conversation)

 

 

Spoiler

1 hour ago, kittyna said:

where I live, the vast majority of girls I see who look like they've just walked out of a K-drama

You must feel like you are a side character of their K-drama. But, I can understand, in East Asian culture women has this burden to look feminine and presentable. And I can only imagine how girls try to look presentable from high school level, like in k-dramas they show girls doing make up in their zero period class. And on top of that cosmetic companies charge you guys more than they charge men. Like, even if the product is identical, they just paint it pink and sell it at much higher price than they sell to men.

 

Spoiler

1 hour ago, kittyna said:

In this article, what I found particularly interesting was how the author linked the growing obsession with body building among Korean guys with increased globalization and exposure to Western media (where the ideal, among White and Black men alike, has been for a larger build).

Yeah, but in a recent survey Korean women preferred men who are well groomed and sort of with decent build up, not like build up from WWE style. Maybe that's why no member BTS is not allowed to go to gym. I am pretty sure at least one of them would like to have muscles and I am sure management as some kind of restriction on that.

Spoiler

1 hour ago, kittyna said:

Personally, I will say that I'm not a fan of the really buffed up muscular sort of build

Lol, your fears not completely unfounded, even I would be intimidated if I am near person (man/woman) who is totally buffed-up