Joo Won 주원 [Current Drama 2024 - The Midnight Studio/ 야한(夜限) 사진관]

[mrdimples]

I really miss Joo Won. TT

 

I have been feeling strange since Saturday. Can't put a finger to it. I thought was PMS but timing is wrong. My favorite Yong Pal OST before Sat was A'Nightmare', now it's PHS's "Only Remember Me" ...oh the puns. I associate the song with that day. You know while we were all waiting for the event start, Onetvasia should have show clips of the show. I guess they have no budget for big screens but imagine people watching Yong Pal? So awesome. They wanted to broadcast other shows on their channel but I think Yong Pal is most gripping even in short clips. On bigger screens. And way to work up the crowd, if you ask me. 

I won't lie that I wished Joo Won sang instead of PHS. He would have shaken the whole Suntec City. Can you imagine? 

Edited October 14, 2015 by mrdimples

[moonandhearts]

I really miss Joo Won. TT

 

I have been feeling strange since Saturday. Can't put a finger to it. I thought was PMS but timing is wrong. My favorite Yong Pal OST before Sat was A'Nightmare', now it's PHS's "Only Remember Me" ...oh the puns. I associate the song with that day. You know while we were all waiting for the event start, Onetvasia should have show clips of the show. I guess they have no budget for big screens but imagine people watching Yong Pal? So awesome. They wanted to broadcast other shows on their channel but I think Yong Pal is most gripping even in short clips. On bigger screens. And way to work up the crowd, if you ask me. 

I won't lie that I wished Joo Won sang instead of PHS. He would have shaken the whole Suntec City. Can you imagine? 

maybe he's reserving that for when he comes back? Hopefully we could join you guys too? Since it'll be translated in English it'll be easier to understand the interviews and instructions. Teehee. 

 

I'm guessing @mrdimplesples what you're feeling is longing for Cutie? Withdrawal symptoms from lack of Yongpal?? Hahaha! 

Oh and about that awards show clip, I'm pretty much sure it was edited. I found the original and they edited Cutie's head on to that actor's body. And added clips of the sunbaes watching.  

[gilaswan]

@yonaomi123: I should wish for soompi to be down during my waking hours then, so maybe I'll get more papers done too... hahaha... I had the windows closed most of yesterday so that I could get through the gazillion papers in front of me. Seriously - there are only these many PDFs you can read before your brain fries.

Regarding Joo Won's portrayal of someone with ASD (Autism Spectrum Disorder), let me just put a disclaimer here: one of the areas I work in is Special Needs, but I am not an expert in ASD (I work in another area of SN). It's just that in the course of my work over the last many years, I have come into contact with a number of persons with ASD and do have colleagues who are ASD experts (those who do the diagnostics as well as intervention), so this is where my comments stem from. As far as Joo Won's acting is concerned, I think it's fairly spot on. While not always true, persons with ASD generally do not make eye contact and do not always understand social nuances in speech or actions, which is why social interaction as we understand it can be puzzling to them and difficult. That is also why generally you do not see them as having a "confident stance" as such - difficult to exude that type of persona when you have difficulty maintaining eye contact. Some of them *do* drag their feet about, but not all. In fact, a number I know do not even look or stand differently - much like Kim Do-Han's brother on the show - so you can't even identify them visually. At most, they come across as aloof. As the term implies, it's a spectrum. Some of these characteristics that Joo Won chose to portray are therefore likely character-specific than disorder-specific. I read somewhere that Joo Won spent a lot of time researching the condition himself and watching a lot of videos, so I suppose he did put together in his mind the image of a person with ASD that he wanted to present to the public.

About Good Doctor (most of the discussion placed in spoiler so it doesn't flood the visual space of those who don't want to read it)

What I found uneasy with had more to do with the script - things that were said. I'm not sure if it's a fault of translation since I don't speak Korean, much less know the nature of the vocabulary used now in Korea to discuss ASD, but in English, there are terms that are no longer used in disability discourse. For example, you don't say "Autistic person", but you say "person with autism" or "person on the autism spectrum disorder". In fact, in the UK, they don't even use the term "disorder" anymore. They refer to it as a "condition". The thing is, the show kept talking about a "cure" - but this is not a disease you can cure. Disabilities are not cured. They are managed. So to see medical practitioners in the show repeatedly speak of a "cure" irritates me some. A good part of my work has me battling with - in my opinion - ignorant medical people who keep perpetuating the myths that disabilities can be cured and therefore place the wrong hopes and expectations in parents. I spend some amount of my time giving lectures to 1st and 2nd year medical students to dispel some of such myths and ideas in the field, but the road is still long. Sometimes, I really want to shake these paediatricians so hard until their teeth and brain rattle. They cause so much damage by the wrong ideas they perpetuate. So, no. You cannot "cure" ASD. 

Si On's ability to work in a regular environment has a lot to do with early intervention actually. The hospital director, Choi, who raised Si On, was likely the person who gave him the type of intervention that helped him settle into mainstream society well. But in reality, Si On's intervention came quite late - so I'm not sure if Si On could indeed have come as far as he did as presented in the show. Assuming he did get very successful intervention though, it is not true that he needs to speak like a "10-year-old". In fact, many persons with ASD I know speak at age appropriate levels with age appropriate vocabulary. But again, this is a spectrum and it varies. I suppose if he had been spoken to like he was 10 for such a long time, he would speak like he is 10.

What I do like about the portrayal though, is that there was a clear attempt to bring up the idea that infantilising disabilities is not a helpful position to take if you want to move towards full inclusion in society. That they recognised an ASD person's desire for a romantic, adult relationship and eventually getting it is important. So I do applaud the writers for that. 

 

[Ma OO]

I really miss Joo Won. TT

 

I have been feeling strange since Saturday. Can't put a finger to it. I thought was PMS but timing is wrong. My favorite Yong Pal OST before Sat was A'Nightmare', now it's PHS's "Only Remember Me" ...oh the puns. I associate the song with that day. You know while we were all waiting for the event start, Onetvasia should have show clips of the show. I guess they have no budget for big screens but imagine people watching Yong Pal? So awesome. They wanted to broadcast other shows on their channel but I think Yong Pal is most gripping even in short clips. On bigger screens. And way to work up the crowd, if you ask me. 

I won't lie that I wished Joo Won sang instead of PHS. He would have shaken the whole Suntec City. Can you imagine? 

Oh no. If he was the one who sang at the Suntec City, I will really turn into Director Min and plot to go near him at all cost.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Ma OO

[farbarri]

@mrdimples I feel you there, buddy~ I've been re-watching fancams of Saturday event. Park HyeSoo's Remember Me Only song has always been one of my favorites, so to hear it live is like a dream come true to me. I sang it every day ever since it was released, and listened to it for hours in my car.

When the MC asked if we like his singing or acting, I thought for a moment that he would have sang then..

Anyway, I used your screencap~

This caption shows "The synthetic screen"

Whereas the captions in the remainder pictures are the same "Joo Won imagination"

So I think these are definitely 'imagination' scene of Joowon receiving an award, and his Healing-Camp head is super-imposed on to someone else's body. LOL! He wont be wearing that mic by his face when he's receiving award, will he? I gotta give credit to the editors. They edited well that I believed it for a second.

[ecs707a]

 

About Good Doctor (most of the discussion placed in spoiler so it doesn't flood the visual space of those who don't want to read it)

Hidden Content

 

About the "cure" stuff...that was a huge point of discussion during the show's airing.  And I don't think we ever got a satisfactory answer whether it was just how it was written, and it truly reflects a difference in how autism is perceived in Korea (seems unlikely, but who knows), or if it was just an imperfect translation.

I found that aspect really off-putting too.  I love that character, but the whole drama suffered from over-simplification.  But baby steps, I guess.

[gilaswan]

 

About Good Doctor (most of the discussion placed in spoiler so it doesn't flood the visual space of those who don't want to read it)

Hidden Content

 

About the "cure" stuff...that was a huge point of discussion during the show's airing.  And I don't think we ever got a satisfactory answer whether it was just how it was written, and it truly reflects a difference in how autism is perceived in Korea (seems unlikely, but who knows), or if it was just an imperfect translation.

I found that aspect really off-putting too.  I love that character, but the whole drama suffered from over-simplification.  But baby steps, I guess.

You're right. Baby steps. At least someone's discussing this through media after Rain Man was done - which was too long ago. But disability discourse in this part of the world is still in its infancy. Feels like an uphill climb sometimes... 

[mrdimples]

@mrdimples I feel you there, buddy~ I've been re-watching fancams of Saturday event. Park HyeSoo's Remember Me Only song has always been one of my favorites, so to hear it live is like a dream come true to me. I sang it every day ever since it was released, and listened to it for hours in my car.

When the MC asked if we like his singing or acting, I thought for a moment that he would have sang then..

Anyway, I used your screencap~

This caption shows "The synthetic screen"

Whereas the captions in the remainder pictures are the same "Joo Won imagination"

So I think these are definitely 'imagination' scene of Joowon receiving an award, and his Healing-Camp head is super-imposed on to someone else's body. LOL! He wont be wearing that mic by his face when he's receiving award, will he? I gotta give credit to the editors. They edited well that I believed it for a second.

To answer this and @moonandhearts, I just finished this segment of HC. 

Yes, it's faked. They have edited it so well I wouldn't have suspect if not for the fact I know JW didn't have a SBS show prior to Yong Pal. 

Actually, MC asked Joo Won if he is looking forward to win Daesang. Joo Won said that it would be a lie if he says he doesn't hope to get an award. But winning it would also be burdensome. He went on to elaborate that if he won, he wouldn't know how to face all the sunbaes sitting in the front row. That's why they added in the clips of those seniors smiling. My gut feel is that the MC didn't understand what JW was talking about. MC actually dig him for such a detailed description which MC implied that Joo Won must have thought about winning a lot in order to have such explicit imagination. I don't agree. I am totally with Joo Won on this. Just look at the recent Korea Drama Awards. Didn't people say that the sunbaes should win instead? I am all for meritocracy regardless of age. But the Koreans take this issue more seriously. And while I think Joo Won is better than some sunbaes, I cannot deny that most of these seasoned actors are better than young actors of past awards. 

 

[gilaswan]

Am new to Joo Won and all of this but I'm curious: why are people so curious about him and his use of banmal?

I'm just looking at some student papers on bilingualism and biculturalism, and a group compared English to Korean (they're native speakers of Korean, second language users of English), and it just reminded me of an incident once when I, for the fun of it, greeted a Korean student with "Annyeonghaseyo!" Immediately, he straightened up, looked serious and gave a small bow as he responded with "Good morning, <my formal address>". Normally, they're all, "Hi <my formal address>!" or even, "whassup!" but the moment they heard, "Annyeonghaseyo", it was like this different switch was flipped. (I will say I draw the line at being addressed by my first name. I don't like it when students do that so I don't allow it, but otherwise I'm very casual in my speech with students.) I was equally surprised at their sudden change in demeanour I asked, "What was that?!" Hahahaha... as much as I am trying to understand all of this, being the absolute Asian that I am, I have to say I don't totally get it either... banmal vs jondaemal...

[simplydramafied1082]

Am new to Joo Won and all of this but I'm curious: why are people so curious about him and his use of banmal?

@gilaswan Hey I have frequented on your replies at the Yong Pal thread. Very interesting to come across them.

With reference to your question - Joo Won is known to get closer to his classmates very fast and one of those ways is his talking in a mix of banmal and jondae. As you're aware it is strict to refer a person older or a person you are meeting for the first time in jondae in the Korean society. 

But in JW's case, most of the people whom he address in this mix whether they are older or not find it very comfortable and think he is very cute. I think it mostly prevails in this manner since in musicals they had to work with a huge cast so to make it comfortable and others to gel with each other they would drop honorifics. I have seen even Kang Ha Neul and Jo Jeong Seok exhibiting a similar pattern. Mostly it is a mix of jondae and banmal. But if it is really a older person like Yoo Hae Jin, JW strictly sticks to jondae. Maybe he really keeps a benchmark like Uhm Tae Woong (who is older to him by 13 years) to drop honorifics and converse with the older folks.

Many older actors whom he worked with like Jeong Man Shik, Joo Sang Wook and Park Ki Woong said they found it at first strange in the beginning to be spoken to in banmal, but gradually they just went with the flow. I guess it just shows how sincere he is when he is comfortable with someone.

But for an on looking stranger this might be rude especially if you drop honorifics very quickly in the 2nd or 3rd meeting. If you did manage to watch Happy Together episode with the Good Doctor cast Jeong Man Shik and Joo Sang Wook also spoke a little bit on how quickly JW dropped honorifics quickly.

Edited October 14, 2015 by simplydramafied1082

[gilaswan]

@simplydramafied1082: But in Korea you can't drop to banmal with a senior without their expressed instruction to do so... not quite with where I am from (not sure where you're from) where the decision to drop to informal speech is pretty much done through "feel"... students gauge whether they should be informal with me by "testing" waters... in truth, I am mostly formal in my speech (to the point where one of them once asked in class, "Do you always speak like this? Even at home? Don't you feel tired?" Hahaha...) For Joo Won to simply drop to banmal - I wonder why his Sunbaes find it "cute".

[simplydramafied1082]

@simplydramafied1082: But in Korea you can't drop to banmal with a senior without their expressed instruction to do so... not quite with where I am from (not sure where you're from) where the decision to drop to informal speech is pretty much done through "feel"... students gauge whether they should be informal with them by "testing" waters... in truth, I am mostly formal in my speech (to the point where one of them once asked in class, "Do you always speak like this? Even at home? Don't you feel tired?" Hahaha...) For Joo Won to simply drop to banmal - I wonder why his Sunbaes find it "cute".

Oh yeah Uhm Tae Woong and Jeong Man Shik at first didn't really like that JW dropped honorifics quickly. I think somewhere in 2012 or 2011 when UTW was a quest on KBS Win Win he spoke about how shocked he was when Joo Won asked him a question, " Hyung did you pee?" in banmal. It was like he felt are we that close to speak in banmal.

Similarly, JMS also thought should I beat this guy up for speaking to me in banmal. But like they said later on they never felt offended because JW really values close relationships and not just till a project ends. I mean in the sense actors tend to bond while a project is ongoing but once that winds up they don't stay in touch. But in JW's case he keeps in touch with most of them.

[mrdimples]

Am new to Joo Won and all of this but I'm curious: why are people so curious about him and his use of banmal?

 

First, I want to say sdee told me weeks ago that antis who couldn't find anything to attack Joo Won(interesting, they couldn't attack his acting all this while  ) came up with this 'rumor' that JW and KTH"s relationship on Yong Pal set was bad. I knew the antis were stupid but I didn't know they could be that stupid. Maybe this happened before all the BTS were shown or they just attack blindly, literally. So, the rumor had it that JW used banmal on his seniors including KTH and that he has no respect for elders. 

Anyone who knows Joo Won will remember the long list of sunbaes who love him. From Baker King to Yong Pal. I can list them if you want. Often, I read very nice sugar coated reports of sunbaes and co-stars praising an actor. I think I can spot a genuine article if I see one. One thing is that Joo Won has quite a number of sunbaes who speak fondly of him. They don't stop once the project ends, they still speak fondly of him well after.

Now about his use of banmal, there were instances where his sunbae talked about this. Example, Uhm Tae Woong during SIU interview, Joo Sang Wook and Jeong Man Sik during Happy Together - Good Doctor. You got to watch the clip but they really found him adorable. 

 

watch 10:22 to 12:00 it might help you understand

And I think Yoo Hae Jin sums it best, he said in HC that Joo Won's respect comes from the heart. 

(note: Joo Won does not drop honorifics on YHJ and seems like YHJ asked him why he doesn't) 

Edited October 14, 2015 by mrdimples

[farbarri]

Am new to Joo Won and all of this but I'm curious: why are people so curious about him and his use of banmal?

I'm just looking at some student papers on bilingualism and biculturalism, and a group compared English to Korean (they're native speakers of Korean, second language users of English), and it just reminded me of an incident once when I, for the fun of it, greeted a Korean student with "Annyeonghaseyo!" Immediately, he straightened up, looked serious and gave a small bow as he responded with "Good morning, <my formal address>". Normally, they're all, "Hi <my formal address>!" or even, "whassup!" but the moment they heard, "Annyeonghaseyo", it was like this different switch was flipped. (I will say I draw the line at being addressed by my first name. I don't like it when students do that so I don't allow it, but otherwise I'm very casual in my speech with students.) I was equally surprised at their sudden change in demeanour I asked, "What was that?!" Hahahaha... as much as I am trying to understand all of this, being the absolute Asian that I am, I have to say I don't totally get it either... banmal vs jondaemal...

Koreans take their respect thing very seriously. I take it you know that banmal means informal speech and jeondaemal means formal speech? Most people use semi-formal which is the "-yo" you heard at the end of sentences. A more formal term of speech would be with "-mida" for normal sentences and "-mika" for questions. The -mida and -mika is more used with seniors such as in work place, or more elder people whom you've never met before. The terms "-yo", "-mida" and "-mika" are called the honorific terms.

The honorific terms can be dropped only when the 'higher' party suggested it. Joowon, on the other hand, often drops the honorifics with his seniors after a short meeting. In WinWin talk show in 2012, Kim Seung Woo was the host and also part of the 1N2D cast which Joowon was a member of. They have been shooting quite a lot of episodes by the time he was a guest. He said that Joowon talks in banmal to him after the first meeting. Lee Soo Geun even take Joowon aside after several meetings and told him not to do so, but Joowon answered in banmal instead. I guess people accepted the way he speaks in banmal to them because although he speaks informally, he speaks in an aegyo tone, a cute tone. So people dont think of him as being rude.

Koreans consider age hierarchy very important. In their first meetings, they will check each other's age to ensure they're addressing people properly, using the proper honorifics. The way of speech (banmal, honorifics, tone, etc) and the way they bow are an important aspect of their lives. They were taught these since they were little. If children dont bow, they are considered rude. If people see those they respect more, or much elder ones, the bow tends to get lower.

Edited October 14, 2015 by farbarri

[ecs707a]

@simplydramafied1082: But in Korea you can't drop to banmal with a senior without their expressed instruction to do so... not quite with where I am from (not sure where you're from) where the decision to drop to informal speech is pretty much done through "feel"... students gauge whether they should be informal with them by "testing" waters... in truth, I am mostly formal in my speech (to the point where one of them once asked in class, "Do you always speak like this? Even at home? Don't you feel tired?" Hahaha...) For Joo Won to simply drop to banmal - I wonder why his Sunbaes find it "cute".

I have an assignment for you, @gilaswan.   Go watch the last 10 minutes of his Win Win episode.  It think it might make more sense then.  He speaks a strange hybrid speech level to certain people at certain times.  In any case, you get to hear it from someone who was initially taken aback, but knew not to be truly offended.  I almost wonder if he does it unconsciously.  He always seems surprised when people bring it up, like he doesn't remember saying such a thing, lol. 

[gilaswan]

@simplydramafied1082: But in Korea you can't drop to banmal with a senior without their expressed instruction to do so... not quite with where I am from (not sure where you're from) where the decision to drop to informal speech is pretty much done through "feel"... students gauge whether they should be informal with them by "testing" waters... in truth, I am mostly formal in my speech (to the point where one of them once asked in class, "Do you always speak like this? Even at home? Don't you feel tired?" Hahaha...) For Joo Won to simply drop to banmal - I wonder why his Sunbaes find it "cute".

I have an assignment for you, @gilaswan.   Go watch the last 10 minutes of his Win Win episode.  It think it might make more sense then.  He speaks a strange hybrid speech level to certain people at certain times.  In any case, you get to hear it from someone who was initially taken aback, but knew not to be truly offended.  I almost wonder if he does it unconsciously.  He always seems surprised when people bring it up, like he doesn't remember saying such a thing, lol. 

+ @mrdimples, @farbarri, @simplydramafied1082

Just search for "Joo Won Win Win"? 

Actually, I do like this aspect of Korean culture to some degree - I take respect from an asian cultural perspective quite seriously. But I also think that Korean society in this respect gets very stifling too. 

The very first time I met one of my Korean friends (outside of Korea, but we were having a meal with a group of Asian delegates - Malay, Chinese, Japanese and Korean), his first question to me was "How old are you?" Thankfully, watching Korean dramas got me attuned to this (it's actually rude where I come from to have that as your first question. I had an ex-colleague who would do that, followed by the question, "Are you married?" and we all found him terribly offensive). I thought to myself, "Ah... so they really do this..." So I answered - normally, I don't. Cos seriously, when a guy asks you this at the FIRST meet, and at a work situation too, I find it so rude! I am often told I don't look my age, so at first he gave me the "진짜요?" look. But after a colleague I was travelling with assured him of my age, wah, the entire interaction changed. I must say I was both amused and stunned. They *really* take this *very seriously*. I might not survive in Korea. I would commit too many socio-cultural faux pas in this regard.

@mrdimples: The clip is so cute. Joo Won looks so cute there - his reactions and mannerisms... I feel bad for YoungKwang - he's like cut out of the frame most of the time.

[mrdimples]

@gilaswan here's the Win Win portion @ecs707a was referring to. Watch from 4:00 onwards(the beginning is really funny though, actually you should just watch the whole thing. This Win Win is a must watch for Joo Won fans)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k5ezHGr9fXf9HK3ARLP

 

[gilaswan]

@gilaswan here's the Win Win portion @ecs707a was referring to. Watch from 4:00 onwards(the beginning is really funny though, actually you should just watch the whole thing. This Win Win is a must watch for Joo Won fans)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k5ezHGr9fXf9HK3ARLP

 

Aiyoh... he's so cute lah... I want to keep him in my pocket and take him out to cheer me up with I'm tired with work. hahahaha... 

[mrdimples]

@gilaswan here's the Win Win portion @ecs707a was referring to. Watch from 4:00 onwards(the beginning is really funny though, actually you should just watch the whole thing. This Win Win is a must watch for Joo Won fans)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k5ezHGr9fXf9HK3ARLP

 

Aiyoh... he's so cute lah... I want to keep him in my pocket and take him out to cheer me up with I'm tired with work. hahahaha... 

Before Joo Won, I never knew that men would find another man cute. And these are straight men. Have you watched Happy Togther, the clip which I post just now. Try it when you have time. 

Many seniors like Uhm Tae Woong, Park Ki Woong, Shin Hyun Joon, 1N2D's Kim Seung Woo, Cha Tae Hyun, Sung Si Kyung adore him. 

It's more than just being a maknae and doing aegyo stuff. I think these people know how hard he works and how good he is as a professional as well as in personal life. I guess if there's anyone who is lesser and still acts affectionately like a child, they would be put off. 

[mrdimples]

@yonaomi123: I should wish for soompi to be down during my waking hours then, so maybe I'll get more papers done too... hahaha... I had the windows closed most of yesterday so that I could get through the gazillion papers in front of me. Seriously - there are only these many PDFs you can read before your brain fries.

Regarding Joo Won's portrayal of someone with ASD (Autism Spectrum Disorder), let me just put a disclaimer here: one of the areas I work in is Special Needs, but I am not an expert in ASD (I work in another area of SN). It's just that in the course of my work over the last many years, I have come into contact with a number of persons with ASD and do have colleagues who are ASD experts (those who do the diagnostics as well as intervention), so this is where my comments stem from. As far as Joo Won's acting is concerned, I think it's fairly spot on. While not always true, persons with ASD generally do not make eye contact and do not always understand social nuances in speech or actions, which is why social interaction as we understand it can be puzzling to them and difficult. That is also why generally you do not see them as having a "confident stance" as such - difficult to exude that type of persona when you have difficulty maintaining eye contact. Some of them *do* drag their feet about, but not all. In fact, a number I know do not even look or stand differently - much like Kim Do-Han's brother on the show - so you can't even identify them visually. At most, they come across as aloof. As the term implies, it's a spectrum. Some of these characteristics that Joo Won chose to portray are therefore likely character-specific than disorder-specific. I read somewhere that Joo Won spent a lot of time researching the condition himself and watching a lot of videos, so I suppose he did put together in his mind the image of a person with ASD that he wanted to present to the public.

About Good Doctor (most of the discussion placed in spoiler so it doesn't flood the visual space of those who don't want to read it)

Hidden Content

 

Can I add what I remember reading Joo Won's comments about his role in Good Doctor? 

Yes, Joo Won spent a lot of time researching. His mom bought him books once he got the role. Joo Won himself went down a center for autism where he spoke to the Director and there, he also interacted with the people with autism. He said he was surprised at how 'normal' they look and spoke. However, he knows that autism is a spectrum so there's no defined set of characteristics. Add to that, his character is a savant and a gifted surgeon. Joo Won said in real life, it's very difficult for a person with ASD to be one. So, he had to create his own character to include all these factors. 

Have you finished the drama? I won't spoil it for you.

But if you have

I liked the bit of how they portrayed people's reactions to their romance.