Joo Won 주원 [Current Drama 2024 - The Midnight Studio/ 야한(夜限) 사진관]

[kireeti2]

10 hours ago, kittyna said:

I think the last time for me was Gaksital - and even then, Lee Kang To never looked so...demonic as Evil!Jin Gyeom does. Like, Kang To was scary at times, but in a way that still felt human or like there was a conscience in there. This version of Jin Gyeom, though, takes it to a whole other level.

Yeah, he does look creepy as hell with that red dots on his face, initially I thought it was blood spatters on his face. And also, I am waiting for the writers to explain this sudden change of PJG behavior in different dimension, I mean what might have lead PJG from the dimension to become so dark in character

And in the teaser we can also see KDY is lying unconscious, maybe evil PJG did something to her, hope that dimension KDY is okay

 

[kittyna]

4 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

And also, I am waiting for the writers to explain this sudden change of PJG behavior in different dimension, I mean what might have lead PJG from the dimension to become so dark in character

 

I think I'll understand more after actually watching the two episodes, but from what I've seen so far from Instagram and whatnot, apparently this whole "evil doppelganger" business is an actual thing - i.e., it's not just Park Jin Gyeom who's got one and we're left guessing retroactively when we saw the "normal" or "evil" versions of different characters in various moments throughout the drama (Go Hyung Seok, Seok Oh Won, etc.)

 

Good thing both versions of Yoon Tae Yi seem to be squarely on the good side, though, or else I'll really get confused.

 

4 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

And in the teaser we can also see KDY is lying unconscious, maybe evil PJG did something to her, hope that dimension KDY is okay

 

Actually, the part that freaks me out about the Episode 13 teaser - besides wondering when and how the hell "normal" Jin Gyeom and "evil" Jin Gyeom end up meeting each other - is that we see "normal" Jin Gyeom developing the same rash? Maybe? And we also see the teenage "normal"(?) Jin Gyeom with those same disturbing symptoms that we've seen from the adult version - the headache, ringing in the ears, etc - and the teaser seems to be implying that those are linked to "evil" Jin Gyeom in some way.

 

Spoiler

Which brings me to one theory I stumbled across on Instagram re: teenage Jin Gyeom - that the classmate who committed suicide was actually pushed off the roof...by his evil doppelganger. It doesn't make sense to me - insofar as that doesn't match the neighbour's eyewitness testimony or Jin Gyeom's own memory of the incident - but the argument is that Do Yeon must have seen something to be able to say that Jin Gyeom did it.

 

However, if that is the case, it does explain why Jin Gyeom shows the same symptoms after the girl falls off the roof that we see in the Episode 13 teaser - which was the main thing from the scenes in Episode 1 that I couldn't explain.

 

Wild and crazy speculation here: What if, while most people have an evil doppelganger from a parallel universe, Jin Gyeom is actually the two of them fused together into one body, by virtue of his being simultaneously from two different timelines? And what if his supernatural ability to control time is linked to that darker side trying to take over?

 

(I know that doesn't explain how Jin Gyeom comes to see his doppelganger yet, but this is the best way I could think of explain everything else about him so far.)

 

JW's Instagram update

 

And some backstage footage from Ghost - this shows what JW was referring to when he said the cast members would get hyped up prior to each performance  I love that he also joins in when he's not the one playing (the time when he's just in a black T-shirt rather than in costume as Sam)...and was that him who messed up the call-in in the Oct. 9 version (getting the "We are!" right, but then getting tongue-tied on the next line)?  I just saw that the mistake was from whoever was wearing the black baseball cap, but I wasn't sure if that was JW (if he was even there) or another cast member.

 

 

 

[kireeti2]

6 hours ago, kittyna said:

Which brings me to one theory I stumbled across on Instagram re: teenage Jin Gyeom -

I just gave up on theories and stopped reading fan theories as well. The story is not straight-forward like other time travel stories. Because the concept of Time control by a person is a relatively new concept for me. So, I think I will wait for the drama to unfold its own story rather than guessing the further plot.

6 hours ago, kittyna said:

And some backstage footage from Ghost - this shows what JW was referring to when he said the cast members would get hyped up prior to each performance  I love that he also joins in when he's not the one playing (the time when he's just in a black T-shirt rather than in costume as Sam)...and was that him who messed up the call-in in the Oct. 9 version (getting the "We are!" right, but then getting tongue-tied on the next line)?  I just saw that the mistake was from whoever was wearing the black baseball cap, but I wasn't sure if that was JW (if he was even there) or another cast member.

Wow! I really didn't understand whole slogan thing except the sentence "We are Ghost". And it was funny also, because not everyone is participating in it and few were just making noise or doing chorus.

 

6 hours ago, kittyna said:

apparently this whole "evil doppelganger

It's like "Train" drama concept, where hero as an evil version in another dimension. And also it was played by Yoon Shi-Yoon, I think it is just a coincidence that both of them choose to play drama with time travel and parallel universe concept.

7 hours ago, kittyna said:

Good thing both versions of Yoon Tae Yi seem to be squarely on the good side, though, or else I'll really get confused.

I think it is because she is the part of original time traveler crew. Like, for people who are or were part of Alice have no other version of them in any other dimensions. Maybe it's because they do time travel with some set of rules and regulations, like, their time travel is registered unlike PJG's

[kittyna]

So, @kireeti2, I have some new thoughts on this whole doppelganger business, because I've finally watched Episode 11, and am now here to share me take on it  

 

As always, I want to preface this by saying that my experience as a viewer is very different from most people's, because I tend to get around to watching the new episodes a few days after they've been broadcast - which means that the major contours of each episode don't really have the same shock/surprise factor for me. But that being said, here goes!

 

Spoiler

First of all, I take back my comment about everyone having an evil doppelganger - because I actually think Go Hyung Seok's doppelganger isn't all that bad. Seeing some of the stills, I was initially worried that he time-traveled to the past and killed off his past self (like Evil!Seok Oh Won does in Episode 12), but I'm relieved that that's not actually the case, and the "Sigma" Captain Go is revealed to be the same lovable ahjussi we've seen throughout the entire drama.  

 

So what to make of this whole killing business? I actually think he's in a similar dilemma as the 2050 version of Hong Eun Soo's mother from the beginning episodes of Alice: someone who started off with good intentions (reuniting with a deceased loved one), but who also can't resist the allure of the dark side in their quest to change the past for the better.

 

By the way, I see what you guys mean about the fishing scene, now - that was cute by itself, but also heartwrenching in its broader context.

 

Which actually brings me to a point I've been wanting to address since Episode 10: Park Jin Gyeom's reaction to the footage on the USB. I will say it's a small minority, but I have seen the occasional comment on Instagram and YouTube criticizing his choice not to use the evidence against Captain Go, citing that that's not something a responsible police officer nor a son determined to avenge his mother would do. While, technically, I understand that on an intellectual level, I came away from those comments thinking that those viewers must have never been betrayed before, especially by someone they strongly looked up to. And I consider them luckier for it. Speaking from experience, that sort of realization is, in a word, traumatizing, and you really do find yourself going around in circles mentally/emotionally: cycling between hoping it isn't true, feeling intense anger and hurt at the betrayal, and feeling intense guilt for having trusted that person in the first place. So I don't fault Jin Gyeom for his denial from that moment in Episode 10 up until finally learning the truth now - and I can totally understand (even if I can't relate to) his complete trust in Go Hyung Seok, such that even if Go Hyung Seok did intend to shoot him, Jin Gyeom would've stayed put simply "Because you're Ahjussi." And the fact that he could feel all that shows just how far he's come since his childhood diagnosis.  

 

(I do know that there's yet another twist in Episode 12, but seeing how Go Hyung Seok's method for ensuring Jin Gyeom's safety - i.e. literally chaining him to the sign post so that he'd effectively "disappear" from Seoul for a bit - is exactly what makes him a perfect sitting duck for Evil!Seok Oh Won...even knowing about it in advance, that realization on both Captain Go and Jin Gyeom's parts hurt to watch, let me tell you.)

 

So @kireeti2 already shared about Tae Yi's awesomeness in this episode, so I won't repeat it. But as for Yoo Min Hyuk...oof. The guy just can't win, and it's just heartbreaking to watch him being misunderstood by Tae Yi and Jin Gyeom over and over again. Again, I can't blame those two for their reactions - and neither does Min Hyuk - but it's still painful, knowing that he's really trying his best. But I will say, as someone who already knew about Gi Cheol Am being revealed as a villain in advance, it was so frustrating when Min Hyuk unknowingly leaked the most important piece of intel re: Park Jin Gyeom - that he can control time, and is thus the child in the prophecy. 

 

Okay, show - you seriously owe us the satisfaction of seeing Cheol Am getting his butt kicked, preferably by Min Hyuk. Or Jin Gyeom. Or both. Actually...both. Both is good. 

 

Speaking of Cheol Am, I'm actually not surprised at all that "Alice" and "Sigma" have actually been secretly working together all this time. It's sort of a futuristic time-travel-related take on the classic "corrupt corporation/government in an unholy alliance with the criminal underworld" trope that we see in just about every single thriller K-drama ever.  And here, it actually makes total perfect sense, insofar as both are interested in stopping the end of time travel for their respective reasons. But I definitely am starting to get the sense that this is Min Hyuk, Tae Yi, and Jin Gyeom against the (time-traveling) world - so I do hope they catch a good break soon.

 

[kireeti2]

1 hour ago, kittyna said:

But as for Yoo Min Hyuk...oof. The guy just can't win,

Yeah, right now he is the one with no allies, and in future we can expect him to team up with TY and PJG.

1 hour ago, kittyna said:

I'm actually not surprised at all that "Alice" and "Sigma" have actually been secretly working together all this time. It's sort of a futuristic time-travel-related take on the classic "corrupt corporation/government in an unholy alliance with the criminal underworld" trope that we see in just about every single thriller K-drama ever.

Yeah, we can draw parallel to those kind of story line where few from an legitimate organization colludes with people who operate outside the system in order to gain control of that organization

1 hour ago, kittyna said:

Which actually brings me to a point I've been wanting to address since Episode 10: Park Jin Gyeom's reaction to the footage on the USB.

In the end PJG was right Detective Ko did not kill that time traveler. So, technically Detective Ko did not betrayed PJG.

 

[kittyna]

12 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Wow! I really didn't understand whole slogan thing except the sentence "We are Ghost". And it was funny also, because not everyone is participating in it and few were just making noise or doing chorus.

 

It appears to be a call and response: one person (or a small group of people) start a phrase and the whole cast joins in to finish it.  

 

12 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

It's like "Train" drama concept, where hero as an evil version in another dimension. And also it was played by Yoon Shi-Yoon, I think it is just a coincidence that both of them choose to play drama with time travel and parallel universe concept.

 

Parallel universe dramas seem to be a trend right now, since there's Train, The King: Eternal Monarch, Alice, etc. - and that's not even counting the older but still related trend for reincarnation stories (e.g. Black Knight, Legend of the Blue Sea, Chicago Typewriter, etc.). I do think, though, that what makes Alice stand out is that rather than a supernatural cause, everything that happens is due to plausible developments in science and technology.

 

12 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

I think it is because she is the part of original time traveler crew. Like, for people who are or were part of Alice have no other version of them in any other dimensions. Maybe it's because they do time travel with some set of rules and regulations, like, their time travel is registered unlike PJG's

 

One thing I do like about Alice is that it doesn't try to present advanced technologies (like time travel) as inherently good or bad - but only as good or bad as the people who use them. So, if we have people who use it for good or in adherence to strict moral codes and standards (2050 Tae Yi, Yoo Min Hyuk, etc.), it's okay and can even be useful.

 

But good people are almost always outpaced and outsmarted by those people with ulterior motives who want to abuse the technology for their own personal ends or who use it without any care for others. So by this point in the drama, even if those who stick to the rules aren't swayed themselves, time travel as a whole concept has become twisted and corrupted into something monstrous - a realization that 2050 Tae Yi possibly made all the way back in 1992 (or at least in 2010), that Jin Gyeom and 2020 Tae Yi made earlier in the drama, and that Min Hyuk's starting to make now.

 

And it's starting to look increasingly likely that the only way this family could fix the problem is to take down "Alice" altogether - but in the process, they'll most likely have to sacrifice themselves (since in the Episode 13 preview, it sound like destroying time travel will mean that time travelers themselves cease to exist).

 

8 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

In the end PJG was right Detective Ko did not kill that time traveler. So, technically Detective Ko did not betrayed PJG.

 

The betrayal would have been if Go Hyung Seok killed Park Sun Young - not Lee Se Hoon - but I get your point.

 

Actually, I doubted all along that he was the one who killed Park Sun Young - again, because what we see in the flashbacks doesn't line up with what actually happened (i.e. that she was killed with a gun from "Alice" and Captain Go clearly doesn't have one). But that makes me wonder: if Captain Go didn't actually kill her, then how did he escape punishment from "Sigma" all this time? It doesn't look like the sort of organization who'd turn a blind eye to disobedience simply because the end goal was still ultimately achieved, so...what happened?

 

And...let's get to some more lighthearted goodies, shall we?

 

Funny clip of Kwak Si Yang's appearance on Running Man last spring - I know it's supposed to be a play on the classic police interrogation scene, but I lost it imagining KSY's performance here as Min Hyuk's "Dad" mode.

 

Cute pics from mini-Tae Yi's Instagram (Part 1)

 

Cute pics from mini-Tae Yi's Instagram (Part 2) - Honestly, I don't think I'll ever get tired of seeing these two cuties together  

 

Teenage Do Yeon behind the scenes (From Lee Da In's Instagram)

 

Finally, JW did this video for THEATRE plus - I can't understand what they're saying, but it sounds like he's being quizzed on theatre-related slang or jargon.

 

 

 

Which reminds me, I'd love to see him do a Korean version of this video someday (featuring American musical theatre actor, Lin-Manuel Miranda).

[kittyna]

And here I am with my thoughts on Episode 12 of Alice!

 

Spoiler

Okay, so the actual shock value was lost a bit on me because I knew about it already from posts online, but damn...that last shot of Evil!Jin Gyeom must have been one hell of a jump scare for those who weren't expecting it. It's like, the meeting between Park Sun Young and 2020-Tae Yi gets the slow-mo and the freeze frame, so you think that's the end, but no! We suddenly get this sneak preview of the creepiest JW we've ever seen, just completely out of nowhere. 

 

Well played, show - well played. I think you might have actually beaten Episode 8's ending with this one.

 

Now that that's taken care of, I want to say that, sad as it was, I really like how the narrative arc concerning Jin Gyeom's relationship with Go Hyung Seok wrapped up. I knew in advance that Jin Gyeom was going to make it (obviously) and that Captain Go died saving him, but I had no idea how the events would actually play out. For me, my favourite parts were actually the aftermath, as we see all the different characters grieving in their own respective ways - and I really appreciated that Tae Yi recognized Jin Gyeom's reaction as his form of grieving (unlike, interestingly, Kim Do Yeon), but still pushed him to actually face his feelings rather than suppressing them.

 

On a random side note: good thing that Evil!Seok Oh Won, for all his smarts, still made the classic villain mistake of bragging about his plan/perspective/etc. to his victims instead of just going straight for the kill. Otherwise, Captain Go would never have made it there in time...and we would have wound up with Jin Gyeom getting shot in the face. (The face, man - not even the forehead. Evil!Seok Oh Won is a freaking sadist, that's what he is.)

 

Actually, for me, the biggest takeaway from this episode is Tae Yi's character development. Everything's clicking together for her so abruptly after years of relatively blissful ignorance...no wonder the girl's reeling. I think it'll be some time before she really fully wraps her mind around all these re-emerging memories and what they mean for her relationships with people like Park Jin Gyeom. On the one hand, a time traveler (Lee Se Hoon) killed her father and nearly killed her. But on the other hand, she was also rescued by time travelers (Yoo Min Hyuk and 2050-Tae Yi) - one of whom is Jin Gyeom's mother, who was killed in turn by time travelers for whom Jin Gyeom is most likely the next target (and he seems to think so as well). So I can see why she's thankful on the one hand, but also unsure how to face Jin Gyeom right now, especially since she doesn't fully understand that he does see her and his mother as two different people. You'd think she would have realized it by now, but then again, she's never had to think about this question before either, so it's no wonder Jin Gyeom and Min Hyuk are both ahead of her on this particular learning curve.

 

Speaking of learning curves, I also want to give a quick shout-out to Yoo Min Hyuk's as well. He's still got a long way to go in terms of 1) gaining Jin Gyeom's trust, and 2) learning the truth about 2050-Tae Yi's murder. However, he's definitely making a good deal of progress now, as evidenced by the fact that Park Jin Gyeom actually responded to his phone call and by the fact that he's now starting to go a bit rogue re: "Alice". Quite a change from the stoic agent we saw in the earlier episodes, as it's now finally starting to dawn on him just how much time travel has veered off course from his original well-intentioned vision, and how even actions that were good in and of themselves could have devastating effects on innocent people in the past (e.g. mini Tae Yi).

 

One last note about the 2050 doppelgangers - so far, we've seen them consistently beating out their past versions, whether just by chance (Go Hyung Seok) or deliberately (Seok Oh Won). Which makes me wonder whether the key to Park Jin Gyeom stopping time travel - which he now actually seems actively interested in doing - will rest on his defeating his own doppelganger. I don't know; it's just a thought.

 

[kireeti2]

6 hours ago, kittyna said:

Yoo Min Hyuk's as well. He's still got a long way to go in terms of

I think that long way is due to his under utilization of his character. Like, they are only using to just fill the gaps in the scenes and I think there is much more scope for character utilization and further character development. And I also think Kim Do Yeon is also under utilized, she could have been much more than just for comic relief and crying. I think she can be instrumental in further of plot and increase the pace of the drama. After episode 9, I am sort of feeling like the plot has slowed down and writers are dragging the revelations for too long.

 

7 hours ago, kittyna said:

I really appreciated that Tae Yi recognized Jin Gyeom's reaction as his form of grieving

I like this part of their relationship development, she seems to understand him more than anyone else around him

7 hours ago, kittyna said:

unlike, interestingly, Kim Do Yeon

That's because she is not getting enough screen time and also she was sort of busy in taking of Detective Ko's wife, since she has no one in her life.

 

Overall, I do agree that this episode was better than previous one. But, the writers have not fully utilized the characters around the main characters. They sort of totally relied on main characters to unfold the plot. I think TY(2020) could have enlisted DY to help her in order to solve the mystery around her parents and MY could have dug deeper instead of asking his superior who is obviously lying to him. Had the writers have used at least the characters around main characters, the plot could have picked up the pace

[kittyna]

3 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

That's because she is not getting enough screen time and also she was sort of busy in taking of Detective Ko's wife, since she has no one in her life.

 

I was actually thinking about the bit at the crime scene when Do Yeon yells at Jin Gyeom for not answering her questions. On the one hand, I understand that she's completely panicking and is probably not aware of everything she's saying, but on the other hand, underneath "Why don't you say something?", there is sometimes "Don't you even care?". In Do Yeon's defence, I know she didn't mean her comments that way, but it still hurt to watch that moment, knowing what Jin Gyeom was actually thinking.

 

As for Do Yeon's behaviour at the funeral itself, I personally loved that. As you pointed out, Mrs. Go needed someone with her at that moment, and I'm glad that Do Yeon stepped in despite simply being a family friend  It actually feeds back to the whole idea that different people grieve in different ways. Both Jin Gyeom and Do Yeon are people of action; when bad things happen, they cope best by jumping in to actually do something. And in hindsight, now that I think about it a second time, I think that even if Do Yeon can't entirely relate to Jin Gyeom's response, she does understand that immediately shifting focus to trying to arrest Evil!Seok Oh Won is what works best for him as both an eyewitness and as Captain Go's hoobae in the police force. Thus, her response is to fill in his gaps by being there with Mrs. Go when he couldn't.

 

3 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

And I also think Kim Do Yeon is also under utilized, she could have been much more than just for comic relief and crying. I think she can be instrumental in further of plot and increase the pace of the drama.

 

3 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

I think TY(2020) could have enlisted DY to help her in order to solve the mystery around her parents and MY could have dug deeper instead of asking his superior who is obviously lying to him.

 

As Alice progresses, I'm starting to think that even though Kim Do Yeon was billed as the second female lead, the drama actually has a three-lead (two male, one female) structure.

 

However, I do think her being sidelined in the drama makes logical sense, because I get the sense that Jin Gyeom has been actively sidelining her ever since he started investigating these time travel-related cases. Partially, it's to protect her - because he's now aware that anyone with connections to him or his mother is in danger - but even before then, I think it's because he's determined to figure this out on his own: he's sort of taken avenging his mother's death as his own personal vendetta, and anyone he brings into the investigation (Dong Ho, Tae Yi, Do Yeon, etc.) he does so on a "need to know" basis. And unfortunately, as of right now, there isn't much that is unique that Do Yeon could bring to the table just yet: there's not a whole ton Jin Gyeom would need Do Yeon to look up for him as a journalist that he couldn't just do himself - and if he could do it himself, he would. That's just how he is.

 

As for whether Do Yeon could help with looking into Tae Yi's past, I think she could, but at the same time, Tae Yi has no reason to ask her to. Despite both of them being key players in Jin Gyeom's life right now, Tae Yi and Do Yeon don't know each other very well, with the only advantage that Tae Yi is willing to acknowledge that Do Yeon has over her being that she's known Jin Gyeom longer (hence why Tae Yi seeks out Do Yeon to ask about Jin Gyeom's background whenever he's not talking).

 

Mind you, Do Yeon's not taking any of this sitting down, and I suspect her finally seeing Jin Gyeom's case notes will give her the foothold that she needs to actually convince Jin Gyeom and Tae Yi to let her join in.

 

3 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

I think that long way is due to his under utilization of his character. Like, they are only using to just fill the gaps in the scenes and I think there is much more scope for character utilization and further character development.

 

Up until this point, Yoo Min Hyuk's been playing a more reactive than proactive role. In his defence, I do feel that his hands are tied as far as digging deeper into "Alice" or Park Jin Gyeom or 2020-Yoon Tae Yi are concerned: if we go with the idea that "Alice" is an analogy for the typical "big bad conglomerate" in K-dramas, then what we see of Min Hyuk's authority as a team leader is really just an empty shell, where he has the power to delegate tasks to others, but doesn't have enough to actually call any shots. And Gi Cheol Am does keep a really tight grip on the strings here, as he not only demands that his subordinates be accountable to him on just about everything, but he also secretly spies on them as well.

 

But even though Min Hyuk hasn't picked up on the fact that Cheol Am is shady yet, his realization now that the problems with time travel are systemic rather than just the fault of a few bad apples ("Sigma", Yang Hong Seob, etc.) might spur him into greater action. Again, we'll have to wait and see.

[flutterby06]

aaahh...I missed a lot..  I was just feeling lazy to write.. coming here, reading and not commenting is just impossible..so I kind of avoided coming here.

 

And I loved ep 11-12 a lot...Still hung up on Jin Gyeom-Ajusshi story..Alice team did it with almost perfection. It's beautifully heart wrenching. 

 

On 10/12/2020 at 9:21 AM, kittyna said:

Which actually brings me to a point I've been wanting to address since Episode 10: Park Jin Gyeom's reaction to the footage on the USB. I will say it's a small minority, but I have seen the occasional comment on Instagram and YouTube criticizing his choice not to use the evidence against Captain Go, citing that that's not something a responsible police officer nor a son determined to avenge his mother would do. While, technically, I understand that on an intellectual level, I came away from those comments thinking that those viewers must have never been betrayed before, especially by someone they strongly looked up to. And I consider them luckier for it. Speaking from experience, that sort of realization is, in a word, traumatizing, and you really do find yourself going around in circles mentally/emotionally: cycling between hoping it isn't true, feeling intense anger and hurt at the betrayal, and feeling intense guilt for having trusted that person in the first place. So I don't fault Jin Gyeom for his denial from that moment in Episode 10 up until finally learning the truth now - and I can totally understand (even if I can't relate to) his complete trust in Go Hyung Seok, such that even if Go Hyung Seok did intend to shoot him, Jin Gyeom would've stayed put simply "Because you're Ahjussi." And the fact that he could feel all that shows just how far he's come since his childhood diagnosis.  

 

I have similar sentiment.. In fact while I was watching angry comments I was like I would like JG to ignore everything and believe in Ajusshi. Because that would show his emotional growth since his mother left him. Also I could see no matter how suspicious Ajusshi was he seemed so conflicted, tired, indecisive.. And throughout whole time his care for JG seemed so genuine. It would have been really unreal and OOC if they showed that Ajusshi was using JG the whole  time..  

Anyone noticed this? This was Ajusssi's caller ID for Jin Gyeom.  

 

When JG was accused of murder in high school he thought it was okay that people was accusing him becuse the situation was against it, all the proofs are against him.. So when his mom said that she'd only believe him and asked him if he did it he told her " What difference does it make if you trust me?" and his mom replied "To me that's most important-- because you're my son." Before this JG may never have the idea that belief and opinions can be objective depending of relationship.

 

And this time after all this years JG himself experienced it--- He thought of believing in Ajusshi because of he trusted their bond. Must be a proud moment for Omma Tae Yi. 

Honestly I loved it how he argued with himself internally and externally with others for Ajusshi. He said to tae Yi--

 

He also told Min Hyuk...

Spoiler

 

 

 

And yes I feel heartbroken for Min Hyuk too..He had to listen to this when all he may be wanted to say is that I AM YOU FATHER.. But I think this a tribute to Ajusshi.. This scene shows very well that how much Jin Gyeom values Ajusshi. He didn't argue with Min Hyuk that ''you're wrong, I am not suspecting him, there must be something else." Because he knew others wouldn't understand it. So he ends up saying the gist ''He's like my father so back off."

 

 

And yes I feel heartbroken for Min Hyuk too..He had to listen to this when all he may be wanted to say is that I AM YOUR FATHER.. But I think this a tribute to Ajusshi.. This scene shows very well that how much Jin Gyeom values Ajusshi. He didn't argue with Min Hyuk that ''you're wrong, I am not suspecting him, there must be something else." Because he knew others wouldn't understand it. So he ends up saying the gist ''He's like my father so back off." Oh Min Hyukie..

 

And finally...finally Mr. Ko got to share his story with the one who needed to hear it most.. also he gets to hear what he always wanted to hear from Jin Gyeom “Father.” But we know Jin Gyeom has treated him like a father for a long time. He has directly and indirectly tried to express it to him many times. The way he says that-------------- “I too was…very happy, Father.” 

 

Ajusshi leaving his wife alone..he must've felt very sad-- but he focused one more important things.. things he was happy about... meeting with her again and meeting JG. I hope he was less sad leaving when he got to hear those treasured words from JG.

 

Jin Gyeom has given father status to Ajusshi directly and indirectly many times.. So it wasn't that impossible to beleive that he would totally try to understand Ajusshi. Honestly I was very taken with Ajusshi since I saw this particular scene..

 

 

Here, Ajusshi said to him that it may not have been a good idea to let Jin Gyeom live alone. JG said that he didn’t wanted to live Ajusshi’s house.. which means that he was very at home in their place.. Enough that he didn’t want his own place like young people or adopted people would usually like to do. This coming from a blunt person like JG spoke volume to me.

 

I have written the same in Alice thread too. I am just so taken with this father-son relationship that helped both of them heal.

 

On 10/12/2020 at 9:21 AM, kittyna said:

And here, it actually makes total perfect sense, insofar as both are interested in stopping the end of time travel for their respective reasons. But I definitely am starting to get the sense that this is Min Hyuk, Tae Yi, and Jin Gyeom against the (time-traveling) world - so I do hope they catch a good break soon.

 

Agreed..I see a chance of them have a good understanding when this time comes.

 

19 hours ago, kittyna said:

Speaking of learning curves, I also want to give a quick shout-out to Yoo Min Hyuk's as well. He's still got a long way to go in terms of 1) gaining Jin Gyeom's trust, and 2) learning the truth about 2050-Tae Yi's murder. However, he's definitely making a good deal of progress now, as evidenced by the fact that Park Jin Gyeom actually responded to his phone call and by the fact that he's now starting to go a bit rogue re: "Alice".

 

I had to laugh thinking about this.. JG probably received his call because MH's number isn't saved in his contact because it was their first phone call. 

 

Anyways Min Hyuk is having a hard time..all by himself getting misunderstood by people who are important to him..I think they'll team up soon because JG will need MH's help to win against this evil force. So far JG has stopped trying to hit him when he sees MH is what promising.. Also JG seems to be daring MH to confess his real identity.. Is it just me? Please tell me it's not just me...

 

And I am skeptic about the fact that evil JG is actually the killer of Omma.. That just doesn't feel very right. Also teaser are usually not what they look like.. But this evil JG definitely is a serious issue..we see rash on both JG. So I am very curious how they'll link up the stories.

 

Joo Won's acting is episode 11-12 was overwhelming for me. Not just him many of them actually showed awesome intensity. I think it's because the mystery is unfolding from one side, thickening in another side and cast did justice to those scenes. Many among those intense scenes I enjoyed a bit more because of their acting. Will have to write another post for expressing those.

 

[Lmangla]

event alert! vote for your oppa!

re: @partyon

 

 

[flutterby06]

@kireeti2 was talking about how they're underutilizing characters such as Min Hyuk and Do Yeon... I am actually finding it more unfair that SBS is leaving out Min Hyuk and Do Yeon from making videos..specially MH..JG-MH has many important scenes but so far SBS has only shared MH part in two video..so is the case for DY. That doesn't look or feel well.

 

Latest making video..

 

I have a feeling SBS is trying to overutilize KHS and JW's popularity in this aspect but in many ways a drama is a team effort. Not including other important cast in the making seems disrespectful.

 

sharing two gifs those are either deleted or yet to be released..

 

Who is pinching JG's cheek!

JW with KSY..everyone is waiting for their moment. What do you think this scene might be? Them sloving cases in JG's apartment? 

 

[kireeti2]

1 hour ago, flutterby06 said:

Latest making video..

Lol, that last scene in the video is hilarious, like I was also surprised that Joo won opened the car door or it was supposed to be locked from inside

1 hour ago, flutterby06 said:

I have a feeling SBS is trying to overutilize KHS and JW's popularity in this aspect but in many ways a drama is a team effort. Not including other important cast in the making seems disrespectful.

I feel the same way, we know that Joo won and Kim Hee Seon are big but I don't think any good drama would like to totally bank on stardom of the main characters, that's really a bad strategy and will eventually lead to low ratings, case in point "The King: Eternal Monarch". A good drama should  have to utilize all the cast members properly in order for the drama to be successful.

 

[kittyna]

14 hours ago, flutterby06 said:

In fact while I was watching angry comments I was like I would like JG to ignore everything and believe in Ajusshi. Because that would show his emotional growth since his mother left him. Also I could see no matter how suspicious Ajusshi was he seemed so conflicted, tired, indecisive.. And throughout whole time his care for JG seemed so genuine. It would have been really unreal and OOC if they showed that Ajusshi was using JG the whole  time..  

 

Most of the criticism I've seen on this front has nothing to do with Go Hyung Seok at all. Instead, it has been that 1) this is out-of-character for someone with alexithymia like Jin Gyeom, and 2) even if he is starting to experience greater emotional depth, as a police officer, it's his responsibility to put his own feelings aside and seriously consider Go Hyung Seok as a suspect.

 

And I definitely get that: more often than not in dramas, the good characters are the ones who choose a broader moral justice over their own friends and family (e.g. the ever-popular trope of the chaebol heir who turns in their corrupt CEO parent - and if the police doesn't work, then they go to the media). Not only that, but despite knowing how things do ultimately work out, we can't ignore the harsh reality that if Go Hyung Seok really had been bad (which, for instance, was what we saw Yoon Tae Yi starting to think), then Jin Gyeom's choice to give him the benefit of the doubt would have cost him his life. Jin Gyeom was taking a huge gamble here, and we need to be honest about that.

 

However, I can also in turn give Jin Gyeom the benefit of the doubt because having to choose that "broader moral justice" is way easier said than done. And I think it's interesting that the writers chose to show us the deep emotional conflict that it actually involves...in a person with alexithymia.

 

Actually, come to think of it, I actually think that Jin Gyeom's case of alexithymia is generally mild - or at least that he's improved significantly over the years. lol - I've recently just started watching Secret Forest (aka Stranger) with my family, and it's been fun looking at two different characters with alexithymia at the same time. It didn't take me long to notice the differences between Jin Gyeom and the male lead in Secret Forest, with the main one being that while the male lead in SF seems to struggle feeling any sort of emotional response to a situation, Jin Gyeom does feel (albeit less and at a slight delay compared to most people) and instead struggles more with identifying and articulating those feelings. Also, the male lead in SF is oftentimes shown picking up people's emotional cues and thinking about them (e.g. "He's saying this, but he's doing that - this person's lying."), whereas Jin Gyeom...is kinda terrible at noticing and responding to other people's emotions.

 

For example: the whole running gag about listening to music, where after being explicitly taught by Tae Yi that most people like to listen to songs for their emotional value, starts pulling that out over and over again in attempts to comfort her...only to have to be explicitly taught a second time that what music you choose matters as well. lol - It was like watching a more stone-faced version of Park Si On trying to keep up with Cha Yoon Seo's lessons all over again 

 

14 hours ago, flutterby06 said:

When JG was accused of murder in high school he thought it was okay that people was accusing him becuse the situation was against it, all the proofs are against him.. So when his mom said that she'd only believe him and asked him if he did it he told her " What difference does it make if you trust me?" and his mom replied "To me that's most important-- because you're my son." Before this JG may never have the idea that belief and opinions can be objective depending of relationship.

 

Going back to that bit from when he was in high school, I think another huge lesson that Jin Gyeom learned was that even if he didn't care what others thought about him (he still doesn't, ten years later), those who love him can still feel hurt on his behalf. And he starts to sympathize (empathy might still be beyond him, but I definitely think he felt sympathy) for his mom after seeing how much crap she had to put up with on a regular basis just to defend him.

 

14 hours ago, flutterby06 said:

Here, Ajusshi said to him that it may not have been a good idea to let Jin Gyeom live alone. JG said that he didn’t wanted to live Ajusshi’s house.. which means that he was very at home in their place.. Enough that he didn’t want his own place like young people or adopted people would usually like to do. This coming from a blunt person like JG spoke volume to me.

 

For me, the defining moment in this character relationship arc was when Jin Gyeom met up with Go Hyung Seok right after watching the video, in Episode 10 (and now, looking at both scenes side-by-side, that's got to have been a deliberate choice from the stylists for them to be wearing almost the same costumes). Ahjussi senses that Jin Gyeom did see something and that he's struggling to speak up about it, and he even tries to encourage Jin Gyeom to just say it. And you can tell from the look on his face when Jin Gyeom says "No" that he actually knows it's a lie, especially when Jin Gyeom immediately follows that with, "I really have improved a lot, and I have you to thank for that. So please, just stay by my side like this for a long time."

 

lol - Watching this scene a second time for the purpose of this reply, I realize that people who focused on Jin Gyeom's throwing away the USB afterwards missed the point of these moments. Jin Gyeom is, in fact, doing the thing that most K-drama good guys do: he's making it known to Go Hyung Seok that he's giving him the benefit of the doubt in hopes that his beloved "Ahjussi" would come clean on his own.

 

And I sense that Go Hyung Seok noticed that, and I like to think that if subsequent events (i.e. the switch between Evil and Good Seok Oh Won, the kill order for Jin Gyeom, etc.) hadn't happened so quickly, he would have confessed to Jin Gyeom about being in the motel during their fishing trip.

 

14 hours ago, flutterby06 said:

And I am skeptic about the fact that evil JG is actually the killer of Omma.. That just doesn't feel very right. Also teaser are usually not what they look like.. But this evil JG definitely is a serious issue..we see rash on both JG. So I am very curious how they'll link up the stories.

 

Right now, if we consider the parallel universes theory that informs most of Alice, my guess is that Tae Yi went into the parallel universe where Jin Gyeom was actually evil and killed his mother. We see the same events playing out at the end of Episode 12 as they did in Episode 1, but they turned out just differently enough that we could tell this is most likely a darker Jin Gyeom than the one she knows. For example, we see that Jin Gyeom is alone when he finds the kids graffitiing his house and he reacts with more aggression - in this version of 2010, he doesn't get to see how saddened his mother is on his behalf, so he never experiences that twinge of conscience that the Jin Gyeom we know did in the same incident. Also, the butcher that we see in Episode 12 is less sympathetic towards Jin Gyeom than the one we see in Episodes 1 and 5. Which makes me think that people who knew "our" Jin Gyeom personally when he was growing up knew that he was a good person underneath the intimidating, stone-faced exterior, but that that might not be true for the 2010 Jin Gyeom that Tae Yi sees now during her time travel.

 

However, again, this is not the universe that "our" Jin Gyeom inhabits, meaning that what we see of Park Sun Young's death here is not what happened to "our" Jin Gyeom either. The Episode 13 preview seems to imply that this Sun Young was strangled or smothered in her sleep by Evil!Jin Gyeom, but we definitely know that that's not what happened in "our" Jin Gyeom's timeline.

 

4 hours ago, flutterby06 said:

I have a feeling SBS is trying to overutilize KHS and JW's popularity in this aspect but in many ways a drama is a team effort. Not including other important cast in the making seems disrespectful.

 

3 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

I feel the same way, we know that Joo won and Kim Hee Seon are big but I don't think any good drama would like to totally bank on stardom of the main characters, that's really a bad strategy and will eventually lead to low ratings, case in point "The King: Eternal Monarch". A good drama should  have to utilize all the cast members properly in order for the drama to be successful.

 

Dramas are often cast so that up-and-coming actors are "carried along" by more popular or veteran actors. The hope is ultimately that enough viewers will become intrigued by the new faces that they will be able to snag greater opportunities in the future. In The King: Eternal Monarch, for instance, a lot of the show's popularity was riding on Lee Min Ho and Kim Go Eun, but I saw a ton of interest in Woo Do Hwan afterwards. Maybe something similar will happen with Kwak Si Yang and Lee Da In here - Alice is the first time many viewers are seeing either of them, and the feedback for KSY at least has been overwhelmingly positive.

 

However, this is a potential drawback for pre-produced dramas: underutilization of supporting characters who are starting to become fan favourites. In a liveshoot drama (which was the model used predominantly in the past), it was easy to add more scenes for these characters along the way, but with a pre-produced drama, what's done is done. Even the making videos were probably already made well in advance and are just being released as-is.

 

4 hours ago, flutterby06 said:

Who is pinching JG's cheek!

 

Looks like Ahjussi, after he was attacked outside the restaurant and Jin Gyeom saved him  

 

4 hours ago, flutterby06 said:

JW with KSY..everyone is waiting for their moment. What do you think this scene might be? Them sloving cases in JG's apartment? 

 

Maybe? It's hard to tell if the characters will get along just from watching the actors, but considering how casually Min Hyuk's dressed here, it's possible that this is after they make up  

[kireeti2]

4 minutes ago, kittyna said:

Looks like Ahjussi, after he was attacked outside the restaurant and Jin Gyeom saved him  

What? I thought it was Kim Hee seon ? I don't think it's Detective Ko 

[flutterby06]

35 minutes ago, kireeti2 said:

What? I thought it was Kim Hee seon ? I don't think it's Detective Ko 

 

Like @kittyna, I guessed it as a scene with Ajusshi too.. Remember this scene? He's wearing same thing.

 

 

You guys remember we talked about that photo Da In uploaded, we assumed it to be taken on the day Jin Gyeom died. Now that we are ahead with the story, the picture turns out to be exactly from Ajusshi's death scene. So interesting that Alice team tried to focus on the details as both scenes occurred in the same day.

 

Pretty Alice team picture.

[kittyna]

1 hour ago, kireeti2 said:

What? I thought it was Kim Hee seon ? I don't think it's Detective Ko 

 

17 minutes ago, flutterby06 said:

Like @kittyna, I guessed it as a scene with Ajusshi too.. Remember this scene? He's wearing same thing.

 

 Oh, my God - here we were, guessing from clues in costumes (for me, it was the curly/frizzy hair), when the answer was in the caption the entire time! It literally says "Go hyungsa", which means "Detective Go". 

 

18 minutes ago, flutterby06 said:

You guys remember we talked about that photo Da In uploaded, we assumed it to be taken on the day Jin Gyeom died. Now that we are ahead with the story, the picture turns out to be exactly from Ajusshi's death scene. So interesting that Alice team tried to focus on the details as both scenes occurred in the same day.

 

I noticed that, too. Actually, the first time I saw behind-the-scenes photos from this bit - the one with just four cast members - I was like, "Wait...that looks like when they filmed Jin Gyeom's death scene, but that's way too little fake blood on JW." So I suspected there was something else going on, but had no way of knowing what exactly  

 

And, yes, I noticed the date - October 15, 2020 - as well  So, when Tae Yi went forward in time to 2021, she went to the 2021 in the parallel universe where Jin Gyeom died - but in "our" universe, it's Go Hyung Seok who dies instead.

[kittyna]

By the way, I don't know if anyone here actually did go and check out the "My Ultimate Oppa" poll, but I went and cast my vote, and that allowed me to see the results so far.

 

Seeing JW's stats so far raises an interesting question for me re: the results. And I want to pose it to you guys to hear your response: would you rather JW be popular or underrated - and why?

 

It's actually really thought-provoking once you let it sit in your brain for a while (and if you are willing to be brutally honest with yourself), so I'm curious where you guys end up going with this  

 

Note: while it is possible for someone to be both popular and underrated at the same time, assume for the purposes of this thought experiment that you have to choose either one.

[kireeti2]

11 hours ago, kittyna said:

would you rather JW be popular or underrated - and why?

I think joo won is underrated when it comes to his acting. His acting some what on par with veteran actors like "Kang Ho Song" and "Kwak Do Won". But I think he is not getting enough recognition because he is doing more dramas instead of movies. Like, you see Korean movie actors are not very popular in overseas like the K-drama stars, since K-drama's usually use lot of K-pop artist who are already popular in overseas and try to get make the drama as popular as they can regardless of story and acting. And also, I see drama cast members often promote their dramas via Variety shows like Running Man which is also popular worldwide and in "The Knowing Bros" which is also gaining popularity in recent times. I think biggest draw back of Joo won's skills are being able to recognized is because of the rom-com dramas which his agency often makes him do like "Catch Me", "7 Grade Civil Servant" . Joo won is more cut out for serious roles and his lack of baby face makes him less compatible with Rom- Com type dramas or Movies. In Alice his acting was exceptional when he was doing a serious scenes like fighting and car chase scenes, and also the way he threatens the future kid was really cool scene. Overall, I think Joo won is underrated because of the incompatible roles that he chooses or his agency makes him do, he should be taking some serious roles from crime thrillers or psychological thrillers and also I think he would do excellent job as a villain. 

And I do think he is popular in Korea and few parts of South East Asia due to his past dramas, I think his Yong pal drama is still intact, but I think it will eventually fade away if he doesn't do a drama which fits his acting and personality. So, for your question I think Joo won is popular(in a limited way) and underrated at the same time. It is the case with most of the actors from K-drama, they are often underrated even though they do exceptionally well in their dramas. 

 

And also, I think he would do well in the story line where the male lead is an underdog, since Korean dramas are really good at make the dramas in which male or female lead are underdogs, baring few like "Backstreet Rookie" in which both the leads were underdogs but failed to garner views, maybe because of poor writing and relying too much on cliches. So, I think joo won would have no problem portraying as an underdog male lead since he has already done it in his previous dramas like in "Bridal Mask" and "Fashion King"

[kittyna]

First of all, tons of stills from the recent press call performance of Ghost

 

(Again, there are so many pictures posted by so many different people that there's bound to be some overlap - apologies in advance.)

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CGWcrmXsCJY/

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CGWyWmOpFYz/

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CGWynHyJwQz/

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CGW0eE8JA0i/

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CGW0ippJxxZ/

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CGW2eXIJxnp/

 

JW also posted a V Live video about Ghost as well. It hasn't been translated into English at the time that I'm writing this, but keep your eyes open for potential future fan-subs  

 

8 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

But I think he is not getting enough recognition because he is doing more dramas instead of movies. Like, you see Korean movie actors are not very popular in overseas like the K-drama stars, since K-drama's usually use lot of K-pop artist who are already popular in overseas and try to get make the drama as popular as they can regardless of story and acting.

 

That's an interesting point. JW actually has an advantage in terms of acting skills because his initial experience was on stage (school theatre productions, musicals, etc.). And in Korea, at least, seeing someone who has done theatre then being cast in a drama is an indication that that person's going to be good to watch  I have noticed that the lines are blurring in a way that I never expected, though: K-pop idols doing dramas is to be expected (for the reasons you described), but I have been surprised to see some idols shifting into musicals as well. Musical theatre and K-pop are quite different in terms of the type of vocal skills and techniques involved - and I do find the blanket assumption that people either can sing or can't and can just easily switch around between genres rather concerning.

 

8 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

I think biggest draw back of Joo won's skills are being able to recognized is because of the rom-com dramas which his agency often makes him do like "Catch Me", "7 Grade Civil Servant" . Joo won is more cut out for serious roles and his lack of baby face makes him less compatible with Rom- Com type dramas or Movies. In Alice his acting was exceptional when he was doing a serious scenes like fighting and car chase scenes, and also the way he threatens the future kid was really cool scene. Overall, I think Joo won is underrated because of the incompatible roles that he chooses or his agency makes him do, he should be taking some serious roles from crime thrillers or psychological thrillers and also I think he would do excellent job as a villain. 

 

The main known success out of his agency's choices is Yong Pal. They were the ones who pitched it to JW, and while he was initially reluctant to consider a second medical-themed drama so soon after Good Doctor, he wound up being drawn in by the script. So that's touted as a classic win-win for everyone involved  

 

I agree with you re: JW's lack of a baby face. Which is weird, because once his aegyo gets involved...yeah  But JW doesn't immediately cut a very innocent or wholesome image (unlike, say, Jung Hae In - who, by the way, is one of my faves and just adorable all around, so I'm not saying this to put him down); people he's worked with describe him as the sort who looks like the "bad boy", but who actually ends up being good to the point of almost being boring once they get to know him.

 

8 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

So, for your question I think Joo won is popular(in a limited way) and underrated at the same time. It is the case with most of the actors from K-drama, they are often underrated even though they do exceptionally well in their dramas. 

 

Well, my question was which one (popular or underrated) you'd prefer him to be, but fair enough  I'll put my own response in another post.