Joo Won 주원 [Current Drama 2024 - The Midnight Studio/ 야한(夜限) 사진관]

[kireeti2]

Lol!! "Another 50 years is enough" this comment just made me do ROFL   Joo won's fans humor is off the charts 

 

[kireeti2]

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/04/us/kpop-bts-blackpink-fans-black-lives-matter-trnd/index.html

Here's the good news, K-pop fans not only standing up against racism but also trolling pro-establishment and far right groups online 

[kittyna]

Okay, so first of all - not JW-related - I just realized that the "What Kind of Asian Are You?" video had a sequel. And it's even more hilarious than the first one 

 

Spoiler

 

 

And now, let's get on with replies and actually JW-related stuff.  

 

5 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

For instance, if he/she(I am presuming yellow fever is a gender neutral term) falls for only ethnicity/race and the personality and habits doesn't play a role in relationship, chances are there that the partner may eventually break-up if he/she finds another person with the preference they might fit regardless of personality and habits.

 

Exactly. Like, "Do you like me because I'm me, or because I'm Chinese/Japanese/Korean/etc.?" I don't know if that happens much for South Asians (i.e. people who aren't South Asians liking South Asians simply because of their ethnic background), but you get the idea.

 

5 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

The only drama he had was going home late after playing with his friends and get knocked-out with just one glass of beer and Choose the course of his preference, like in "Healing camp" show he said that, his parent were sort of against him to pursue  "Arts", but he did managed it.

 

 Oh, wow - I completely forgot about the bit about going out with his friends! I think that was when JW was asked about the worst thing he did when he was a kid and he was just like, "I...told my parents I met up with friends to study when I was actually playing?" and everyone went, "Uh...what? That's it? That's literally the worst thing you did when you were a kid???"

 

5 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

And other rebellious thing was that , he was actually qualified to for police promotion in military(I don't know the exact details) ,but he choose to enlist in mandatory service, which kind of brought him bitter-sweet results, his break-up and he get to make some good friends and memories in the army 

 

Well, it's not really rebellious, but it was unconventional. Celebrities had a bad rap for trying to get into easier/cushier positions during their enlistment by registering for the police or for non-active duty. I don't know what JW's intentions were for trying out for the police first, but I remember that he was slated to go into some sort of public safety awareness team when he did (a popular post for celebrities because it involves actual musical work, public speaking, etc.). But then, out of left field, he declined that offer and started his application all over again as an active duty soldier - and a lot of Koreans loved it. They loved seeing celebrities actively choosing the same paths that everyday citizens are obligated to follow (since getting an easier position due to high status is so rampant in Korean society). Again, we'll never know what JW's personal intentions were in choosing active duty, but the fact that he did, and in the White Skulls at that (one of the tougher units since it's based really close to the NK-SK border), really gave him a boost in male fans in particular.

 

In short: combined with doing projects like Gaksital, JW's reputation as a "patriotic actor" was set. And so long as you don't develop a major scandal later on, that means you're pretty much set for life in terms of domestic popularity and recognition  

 

(Mind you: the translation "right-winged upright hero" in the subs really didn't age well in hindsight, but I'm sure it was originally meant as something good.)

 

 

5 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Lol!! "Another 50 years is enough" this comment just made me do ROFL   Joo won's fans humor is off the charts 

 

It made JW ROFL as well, since the "lol" in the translation seems to be from his response.  

 

And some more pics from that massive care package:

 

 

Finally, I am trying to put together another preview for my upcoming fic - I don't know when I'll get to the scene that I plan to post, but keep your eyes open for it  

[kittyna]

Just quickly popping by with Preview Three of my upcoming Seolleim in Salzburg installment. It's definitely still rough writing-wise, so the final version should be better. But the events and general character interactions are what you see here.

 

A quick heads-up: this excerpt does include some discussion of WWII and the Nazis - not in a way that glorifies them, by any means, but it's there. Just thought I should let you know in advance 

 

Spoiler

“Ya, Yoo Jin-ah! Over here!”

 

Spotting Yoo Il Rak and Jung Si Won in the distance, Nae Il, Yoon Hoo, and I quicken our steps, meeting them right at the base of the Mozartplatz’s large statue. While Si Won smiles and nods at us in greeting, Il Rak grins widely and holds out a clenched fist in my direction. “I didn’t get a chance to congratulate you properly last night, so congrats!”

 

As I tap his proffered fist with my own, he raises an impish eyebrow. “So…how was it?”

 

Nae Il and I both blink in surprise. “How was what?”

 

He scoffs. “Oh, come on! You guys’re engaged now – don’t tell me you still haven’t done it yet!”

 

Watching from his place on the sidelines, Yoon Hoo lets out a snort of laughter while Si Won, jaw dropped open in shock, deals Il Rak a reproachful smack on the shoulder. As for Nae Il and I, it takes both of us a moment of slack-jawed astonishment before we could react.

 

“Ya, Yoo Il Rak,” I blurt out, incredulous. “Do you honestly believe we would have had the chance?”

 

“Besides,” Nae Il adds, “Orabang’s just come from promising Abeonim that we would wait.” She snickers despite herself. “I doubt he would’ve given us his blessing otherwise!”

 

The summons came shortly after the post-concert reception last night when, after sharing a celebratory toast with our friends and family, Abeoji ordered us to join him for breakfast in his hotel room suite in the morning. There, along with Eomma and Nae Il’s parents, we discussed possible plans for the wedding, ultimately settling on holding the ceremony during the week-long break Nae Il and I had originally slotted between our final performance of the tour in Seoul and our flight back home. Once that was settled, as Nae Il happily showed off her engagement ring to the others, Abeoji pulled me aside to one corner of the room.

 

“Remember, Wolfgang,” he gently but firmly said to me, “classical music is, first and foremost, about cultivating self-control and self-discipline. Don’t become an insult to your work by giving in to animal lusts; if you really love Seol Nae Il, you will do what’s right by her.”

 

We explain all this to the others as we now make our way together to the touring office from which we will begin our own plans for today: a Sound of Music-themed guided tour of Salzburg.

 

Geu rae. I’ve finally come around to it. Since we knew that Yoon Hoo, Il Rak, and Si Won would all be here with us together, Nae Il finally convinced me to help her make the arrangements. I did, however, stop short at the large cookie-cutter bus tours that most tourists used, opting instead for a private guide with whom we could negotiate a customized itinerary if we so wished.

 

If I was going to concede by doing this tour at all, at least it should be on my terms.

 

All the others readily agreed to the plan, and even offered to pool money to help cover the increased costs of a private booking. And thus, without them even knowing it, our small and intimate celebration of Nae Il and I’s engagement was born.

 

Several minutes before our 2:00 appointment, our guide emerges from the building. She greets us cheerfully in English, shaking our hands in turn and pausing to compliment Nae Il on the dirndl she’s changed into for the occasion. Then, after checking that the tour was booked under my name, she asks me to confirm the request that I had included in the reservation.

 

“Less time spent at the filming sites in the city so you could have more at St. Gilgen – is that correct?”

 

When I answer with a nod, she makes a note on her copy of our reservation. “I think we can make that work; is one hour and a half enough?”

 

My smile widens. “That would be perfect, thank-you.”

 

Although she tries hard to hide it, she looks visibly surprised at the sound of my voice. And no wonder: having lived first in Salzburg, then Seoul, then back again, my English accent has picked up enough Korean and German inflections to become something uniquely my own – and almost entirely impossible to place.

 

That surprise only grows even more when Lee Yoon Hoo, the most fluent speaker out of all of us, steps in to take charge with his clearly American accent. He explains where all of us are from as he joins our guide in the front seat of the bright yellow van parked nearby for our use, the rest of us piling into the back.

 

Selections from the film’s soundtrack form the background to our guide’s commentary as she drives us on a quick round of the old city. She directs her words at all of us, Yoon Hoo jumping in with brief translations in Korean where necessary; and even though Nae Il’s already lived here for over two years by this point, she stares out the window in as much wide-eyed amazement as the others, marveling at small details about the landmarks from the film that she’d never noticed before. Meanwhile, I mainly content myself with watching everyone else: trying yet ultimately unable to fully feel or appreciate their fascination and curiosity with a place that is so familiar to me.

 

We then head to the outskirts of the city, coming to a brief stop at the Schloss Leopoldskron, where our guide does an artful job of parking the van in a spot away from the crowds of tourists spilling out from the large coach buses nearby. As we mill about on the path during the few minutes we have been given to take pictures, Nae Il points out WeiherWirt, the nearby restaurant, to the others. “That’s where Orabang and I went,” she says, “when we signed our contract. And, look!” she adds, scurrying over to the water’s edge. “Those are the ducks we saw the last time, too.” She glances back at me. “Don’t you remember, Orabang?”

 

As the others glance curiously at me, I answer with a simple enigmatic smile and nod. It’s great that Nae Il is now starting to form her own memories of these places in Salzburg, but considering what else happened on the edge of this lake that day, it’s not one I want to discuss any further.

 

The Schloss Hellbrun is our next stop; this time, I’m the one with an anecdote to share, Si Won and Yoon Hoo holding back their snickers and Il Rak laughing out loud at the thought of Nae Il and I splashing around like headless chickens in the fountain to find the rings I’d dropped.

 

Then, it’s back in the van, as we now leave Salzburg altogether, heading for today’s main destination: the tiny village of St. Gilgen. The drive takes us up into the hills, densely packed neighbourhoods giving way to quaint chalet-style houses dotting the main road and peering out through the trees.

 

For the first time since our guided tour started, even I’m completely taken in by the scenery around me. Perhaps noticing this, Nae Il – who’d previously been seated on the opposite end of the three-seat row from me – now cautiously takes off her seatbelt and shuffles closer, rebuckling herself in the middle seat beside me. Leaning against my side, she reaches out for my hand; I grasp it, interweaving my fingers with hers, as the two of us share a single view of the landscape.

 

During this part of the drive, our guide continues to point out the landmarks around us: ranging from naming each soaring mountain as it appears in the distance to drawing our attention to a chapel even smaller than a house. As Nae Il and I sit more closely together, however, I spot her eyes flickering up to glance at us in the rearview mirror, crinkling at the corners as she smiles at us.

 

Even with looking up pictures online in advance, none of us are prepared for the actual sight of St. Gilgen once we arrive. Our van comes to a stop at a parking lot on the crest of a hill overlooking the small village, and all five of us are reduced to slack-jawed silence as we peer out the windows at all the traditional houses clustered together beneath us on the edge of a pristine blue lake.

 

Nae Il is the first to scramble out of the van, running straight for the grassy hillside while Yoon Hoo, Il Rak and Si Won follow behind at a more leisurely pace. After conferring with our guide on a suitable time for her to pick us up, thus allowing her the chance for a short break as well, I cross the parking lot to rejoin the others.

 

With the hour-and-a-half that we have been given, it would be entirely possible for us to make our way down to explore the cafes and shops in the actual village. However, given that we would be here during the late afternoon, we’ve instead planned to have our own light picnic dinner. Il Rak and Si Won work together to spread out the throw blanket while Nae Il, Yoon Hoo and I lay out the food: fresh fruit and bottles of radler and juice from home; and takeaway sandwiches that we picked up from a popular vegetarian café close to campus.

 

We all pick a spot around the edge of the blanket and help ourselves, the others eagerly asking Nae Il and me about our wedding plans.

 

“Knowing you, Seol Nae Il,” Si Won says, “my guess is that you’ll want to be like a princess.”

 

Nae Il, however, shakes her head. “I did think that at first,” she begins, “but what’s the point of a big fancy wedding when we’ve already been living together for a few years? And besides,” she adds, gesturing at me, “we all know how Orabang is with crowds. So, actually…the simpler, the better, I think.”

 

Si Won nods at that, and both she and Il Rak readily agree when Nae Il then moves on to request their help making the arrangements. “Orabang and I will only get to Seoul in August, and we’ll be way too busy with our own performances to do much else for the whole first week we’re there. So I’ll need to be able to keep in touch with you guys and Mini Min Hee as well as our families in order to make it all work.”

 

“You need to actually announce the engagement on social media first,” Il Rak cuts in. “Si Won-ie and I wanted to tell the others last night, but you guys haven’t said anything yet, and it’s not like we could jump the gun.”

 

“Why not at our last stop, then?” Si Won offers. “The chapel. With that being the same church where the wedding from the movie was filmed and” – she gestures to Nae Il’s dirndl – “you looking so dressed up today, I think a couple shot there would be a great way to share the good news.”

 

Nae Il and I exchange glances, neither of us actually having anticipated an impromptu photo shoot today. But after thinking it over for a moment, we both nod in agreement. “That would be great,” I say at length. “Komapda.”

 

Talk of the church from The Sound of Music naturally leads to us thinking about the film in general – and it’s only a matter of time before I find all four of the others looking pointedly curiously at me.

 

I let out a short sheepish laugh. “Wae?”

 

“I know you said once that you saw bits from the movie,” Il Rak begins, “but did you finally manage to get through the whole thing, Yoo Jin-ah?”

 

“I did,” I answer brusquely, turning away to stare at a random spot in the distance. “Eventually.”

 

“What he’s not saying,” Nae Il blurts out, “is that it literally took Yoon Hoo-sunbae and I each grabbing him by one arm in order to make it happen.”

 

I round on her, heat rushing to my face in mortification. “Ya, Seollebal!”

 

“Really?” Il Rak leans in closer from his spot across from me. “Didn’t you like it at all?”

 

“Well, to be honest,” I say, carefully mulling over my answer, “I can’t say it’s one of my favourites. The music’s good and” – I smile at Nae Il – “Maria’s the closest movie character I’ve seen to being like Seollebal in personality, but” – I finish with a self-deprecating shrug – “I still don’t really see what all the hype is about.”

 

“And I,” Nae Il interjects loudly, “don’t see why so many people from around here – like Orabang – can’t understand it. I mean, it’s such an uplifting story with everything from cute kids to gorgeous music and a beautiful romance…what’s not to love?”

 

As Si Won and Il Rak both nod silently, clearly trying to figure out which side – if any – they should pick, Yoon Hoo clears his throat softly. “Actually, if you don’t mind, Cha Yoo Jin…might I try answering that?”

 

Intrigued by his offer, I tilt my head slightly to one side. “Go on.”

 

Nodding in thanks, he turns in his seat so that he is facing Nae Il. “The Sound of Music may be a great movie for you – but have you ever thought about what it must have been like for people here while they were filming it?”

 

Her mouth opens slightly in surprise. “Sunbae….”

 

“Think about it: it was only twenty years or so after Austria lost the war, and while we can’t say this for all, the reality is that for many people back then, their memories were not of standing up against the Nazis, but of welcoming and supporting them. And now some Hollywood film crew comes along and starts putting up those red swastika banners all over the city – right where they’d actually hung in real life, mind you – to make a movie where they – not their ancestors, but they themselves – could very well have been the bad guys.” He shoots us all a pointed look. “If that sort of thing were to happen to you, wouldn’t you be offended?”

 

Nae Il pouts. “Arasseo,” she answers petulantly. “But this is different, Sunbae.”

 

“If I may,” I add, raising one hand to stop Nae Il before she continues in her protest, “I do want to point out that, all things considered, The Sound of Music probably did more good than bad for Austria’s reputation – if nothing else, it proved that not everyone back then was a Nazi or sympathized with the Party.”

 

“Fair enough,” Il Rak concedes. “Is that why didn’t you like it, then? Because of what Yoon Hoo said?”

 

I shake my head. “I would love to say it was, but I’m not so noble.” Pulling my knees up to my chest, I throw in yet another casual shrug. “I just got sick of people asking about it.”

 

His brow furrows in confusion. “Eh?”

 

“Every time I told my classmates after returning to Seoul that I was from Austria, that’s literally all they would ever talk about: singing the songs, asking me if we actually all wore dirndl and lederhosen or ate schnitzel all the time or whether Edleweiss really was a national folk song. But that’s not the Austria I knew; the Austria I knew was the centre of classical music. I wanted to talk to my classmates about Mozart, or Beethoven – not some silly movie that only the tourists knew anything about.”

  

lol - I was like mini-Yoo Jin when I was little, too. Mind you, I actually loved The Sound of Music and still do, but what I mean is that I was the classical music nerd who just couldn't comprehend all the hype surrounding popular culture.  Like, there used to be this series of kid's movies about a dog named Beethoven, and I used to get completely thrown off when I started referring to Beethoven (the composer) only for another kid to think I was talking about Beethoven (the dog). Mentally, I'd start going, "No, I meant the composer, idiot!" - which, come to think of it, would also be a very "mini Yoo Jin" thing to say. 

[kireeti2]

7 hours ago, kittyna said:

Okay, so first of all - not JW-related - I just realized that the "What Kind of Asian Are You?" video had a sequel. And it's even more hilarious than the first one 

Lol!! The channel is full of hilarious stuff regarding typical Asian stereotypes, but these three videos are my favorite ones, Asian Stereotype Police

 

7 hours ago, kittyna said:

South Asians liking South Asians simply because of their ethnic background

Mostly on skin color, yeah, that's right, we are a brown nation and racist at the same time. I might be generalizing, but it is kind of synonymous to "Yellow Fever" phenomenon. Not, everyone that's it, but there is considerable no.of population who romanticize with White skin fetish.

7 hours ago, kittyna said:

Again, we'll never know what JW's personal intentions were in choosing active duty,

I think part of the reason was that, he wanted to change is image as a flower boy and transform his personality. Like he saw it in his seniors that they totally changed after enlisting in the army. He did mentioned it in his interview before enlistment, he wanted to be more masculine, not like toxic masculinity, but in terms of being dependable and more mature.

7 hours ago, kittyna said:

(Mind you: the translation "right-winged upright hero" in the subs really didn't age well in hindsight, but I'm sure it was originally meant as something good.)

It sounded more like propaganda video done by North Korea news channel, but still Joo won took a huge risk by doing "Bridal Mask" and it paid off massively in terms of popularity both in Korea and Overseas. .I head from somewhere that it was first offered to Lee Seung Gi, but he turned it down claiming he have concerts in Japan and it would affect that.

7 hours ago, kittyna said:

scandal later on,

I am pretty sure Joo won doesn't even know the meaning of it. Joo won has lot of support system to lean on to in case  he hits low point in his life(cause that's the reason why most of celebrities opt for doing drugs/DUI) from friends from agency, musical actor/actress friends to family

7 hours ago, kittyna said:

Finally, I am trying to put together another preview for my upcoming fic - I don't know when I'll get to the scene that I plan to post, but keep your eyes open for it  

Yup, looking forward to it

[kireeti2]

1 hour ago, kittyna said:

He scoffs. “Oh, come on! You guys’re engaged now – don’t tell me you still haven’t done it yet!”

A little head-ups would have been nice if you were going to venture into that part of their relationship, I have always seen Cha Yoo-jin and Nae-il's relationship as some kind of teenage cum first lover, like it is innocent and nascent in nature. But yeah, with time they relationship should also mature and move it to next level

1 hour ago, kittyna said:

 The Sound of Music

When you mentioned this movie it reminded me of "The flowers of war" movie of Chinese, it also took place in similar time period of "The sound of music", but less to do with music, the movie does have music elements, but more gory stuff has been emphasized

1 hour ago, kittyna said:

Beethoven (the composer) only for another kid to think I was talking about Beethoven (the dog)

Lol!!! Popular culture always trumps the classical culture, although it does have to do with access, since classic culture is predominantly controlled by elites and there is no chance for common public to know about them, unless they show some interest, that's the mains reason why classical culture is steadily disappearing in every countries culture

[kireeti2]

Thank goodness! I thought I was the only one who cannot assume right age  of  a woman, especially East Asians(I always assume their age by 5 to 10 years less than their original age ). I started to think I was being ageist or something wrong with my perception, I am glad that all the guys are on the same page regardless of ethnicity 

 

 

 

 

[kittyna]

8 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

I think part of the reason was that, he wanted to change is image as a flower boy and transform his personality. Like he saw it in his seniors that they totally changed after enlisting in the army. He did mentioned it in his interview before enlistment, he wanted to be more masculine, not like toxic masculinity, but in terms of being dependable and more mature.

 

Well, I do think he grew up in that process, so if that was his goal, then he's succeeded  

 

8 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

It sounded more like propaganda video done by North Korea news channel,

 

Better than me, then - because my first thought was, like, the far right uber-nationalistic parties that have been cropping up in Europe or North America or even Japan (the Japanese far right is the side of the political spectrum most vocal about denying WWII atrocities there or being racist towards ethnic Korean living there, etc.). So I was like, "right wing"...as a compliment? Um, okay.... I know they meant it in the sense of "patriotic" or maybe even "conservative" (which, for someone JW's age, he is - at least in terms of personal conduct), but it just didn't come out right when it can also carry so many negative connotations.

 

8 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

I head from somewhere that it was first offered to Lee Seung Gi, but he turned it down claiming he have concerts in Japan and it would affect that.

 

I don't know who the "top Hallyu stars" were that JW is being compared to - I wasn't into K-dramas yet at the time, and it's not something I've ever been interested in finding out.

 

8 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Joo won has lot of support system to lean on to in case  he hits low point in his life(cause that's the reason why most of celebrities opt for doing drugs/DUI) from friends from agency, musical actor/actress friends to family

 

Either a low point (like, say, developing depression is a big one), or because the fame/wealth/etc. got to his head. Both are equally possible, at least in the entertainment industry where I'm from.

 

But in Korea - and other strongly Confucian or hierarchy-driven societies - there's also the risk of pressure from sunbaes. That's what prompted JW to try alcohol for the first time, for example: he knew he was underage, but his high school sunbae offered him a beer and he either couldn't or didn't refuse. And with JW being so keen on showing proper respect and obedience to his elders...I was concerned about him for quite a long time. I was concerned that his seniors' vices might end up becoming normalized for him or that he might be pressured into joining in with their bad habits - we see, for instance, sunbaes suggesting him to get out and "enjoy" life more for the sake of his acting, and when the conversation's about clubbing or partying or romantic scenes...that's a bit worrisome.

 

So in that sense, the self-assurance and confidence he's developed by 2015 and what we saw in Healing Camp was massively reassuring for me. Even though I only became a fan of JW's dramas in 2016, I did watch his interviews and variety show appearances in rough chronological order - so it took me a while to get from the super-innocent (yet also super-impressionable) maknae from 1N2D and Win Win to the more firm and determined young man in Healing Camp.  

 

6 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

A little head-ups would have been nice if you were going to venture into that part of their relationship, I have always seen Cha Yoo-jin and Nae-il's relationship as some kind of teenage cum first lover, like it is innocent and nascent in nature. But yeah, with time they relationship should also mature and move it to next level

 

I hope it was clear from that excerpt then that, no, it hasn't happened yet  And I can also assure you, as the writer, that I will never write explicit sexual scenes in my fics. Instead, when and if I do have characters sleeping together, it'll always be either implied or just mentioned after the fact (i.e. you'll know when they've actually done it, but I won't actually show it).

 

In my interpretation of Nae Il's Cantabile - and, thus, in Seolleim in Salzburg - Yoo Jin and Nae Il are both really innocent when it comes to physical intimacy, but in different ways.

 

Yoo Jin is more conventionally innocent, in my opinion: since I'm going with the version of events where he hasn't slept with Chae Do Kyung (i.e. that their staying up all night really is just them talking, practicing, etc.), I get to play with the idea that he's actually completely new to this. But, since he's also the guy, I get to play with the idea that he might be unusual for that (because many 20-something Korean guys are sexually active), or that his peers might assume he's already slept with Nae Il (since they're actually living together).  

 

As for Nae Il, she's the sort of girl who thinks she's ready to move on to the next step right away. We see her initiating a lot of the skinship in the drama, and there's also that hilarious bit where Yoo Jin discovers she packed skimpy lingerie in her luggage during her competition in Salzburg  But underlying that, I think, is a great deal of innocence and naivety: Nae Il wants to progress quickly because she thinks that's what's expected of her in a dating relationship. But once her own feelings for Yoo Jin deepen and once she starts to realize that he'd rather move on at a slower pace, I think she'd be willing to slow down alongside him.

 

6 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

When you mentioned this movie it reminded me of "The flowers of war" movie of Chinese, it also took place in similar time period of "The sound of music", but less to do with music, the movie does have music elements, but more gory stuff has been emphasized

 

Wow...that's quite the mental association there. But you're right that there is that dark historical undercurrent in The Sound of Music that so many other films (like The Flowers of War) are more direct about. Which is what I have Lee Yoon Hoo pointing out to Nae Il in that excerpt: you can't just take the good without thinking about the implications of the bad.

 

6 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Lol!!! Popular culture always trumps the classical culture, although it does have to do with access, since classic culture is predominantly controlled by elites and there is no chance for common public to know about them, unless they show some interest, that's the mains reason why classical culture is steadily disappearing in every countries culture

 

Yeah  Hence why, in hindsight, my "No, I meant the composer, idiot!" reaction was very much like how Yoo Jin would react under similar circumstances 

[kireeti2]

24 minutes ago, kittyna said:

Yoo Jin discovers she packed skimpy lingerie in her luggage during her competition in Salzburg

That scene was hilarious, Nae Il was asking Min Do-Hee to spread rumors about them, like they are already started living like husband and wife

 

32 minutes ago, kittyna said:

As for Nae Il, she's the sort of girl who thinks she's ready to move on to the next step right away. We see her initiating a lot of the skinship in the drama, and there's also that hilarious bit where Yoo Jin discovers she packed skimpy lingerie in her luggage during her competition in Salzburg  But underlying that, I think, is a great deal of innocence and naivety: Nae Il wants to progress quickly because she thinks that's what's expected of her in a dating relationship. But once her own feelings for Yoo Jin deepen and once she starts to realize that he'd rather move on at a slower pace, I think she'd be willing to slow down alongside him.

I couldn't agree more. She does initiate lot of skin-ship persistently despite resistance from  Yoo jin . But still I think all that behavior is because of her influence due to K-drama in the series

 

35 minutes ago, kittyna said:

Wow...that's quite the mental association there. But you're right that there is that dark historical undercurrent in The Sound of Music that so many other films (like The Flowers of War) are more direct about. Which is what I have Lee Yoon Hoo pointing out to Nae Il in that excerpt: you can't just take the good without thinking about the implications of the bad.

I consider both have similar settings in way, both countries were invaded and lost the sovereignty of the people to a foreign rule. But the treatment was selective in the case of "The sound of music", where as "The flowers of war" had more violent treatments regardless of age/gender

40 minutes ago, kittyna said:

Better than me, then - because my first thought was, like, the far right uber-nationalistic parties that have been cropping up in Europe or North America or even Japan (the Japanese far right is the side of the political spectrum most vocal about denying WWII atrocities there or being racist towards ethnic Korean living there, etc.). So I was like, "right wing"...as a compliment? Um, okay.... I know they meant it in the sense of "patriotic" or maybe even "conservative" (which, for someone JW's age, he is - at least in terms of personal conduct), but it just didn't come out right when it can also carry so many negative connotations.

I think both right-wing and left-wing ideologies play a role in balancing economic and cultural aspects of a country's society, both play a complementary role. As long as they don't get extreme,  A lot of people blame right-wing for WW2, it is not that simple, yes, Nationalism had role in it, but that nationalism was in it's extreme form. Nationalism is not inherently bad, it brings people together, as long as it is not based on religion/race/ethnicity, nationalism can foster brotherhood among all the  people of a country. 

Full disclosure: I don't subscribe to right-wing Ideology nor am a conservative, I just try to understand what other side of ideology think and do, and what made them to think and do it such a way. I am more of a center-left, liberal and sometimes even extreme advocate of women equality.

 

[kittyna]

7 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Thank goodness! I thought I was the only one who cannot assume right age  of  a woman, especially East Asians(I always assume their age by 5 to 10 years less than their original age ). I started to think I was being ageist or something wrong with my perception, I am glad that all the guys are on the same page regardless of ethnicity 

 

lol - That video's funny. And I thought it was interesting how they flipped in the end to reveal that the girl was wondering whether the guy was straight or gay the entire time. Which, to be honest, I can attest to doing every single time someone refers to their significant other as their "partner" because then it could go either way.

 

I am also terrible at guessing people's ages - and since it's oftentimes rude to ask, I think I'll probably never know the actual age of most of my colleagues, associates, etc. School's different, since most people in the same year would be roughly the same age (there are always exceptions, but more or less), but once you're in the workforce? Good luck trying to figure that out

 

So I find it fascinating that so much of Korean etiquette is based around knowing each person's age - a cultural quirk that shows up as an example of the culture shock faced by Korean expats/immigrants/etc. in North America in this sketch (when the hoobae in the office starts bossing around his sunbae because he's actually older )

 

 

By the way, since the video also brings up the gazillion romantic anniversaries Koreans have - I haven't mentioned those so far in my Seolleim in Salzburg series because, to be fair, probably even Yoo Jin and Nae Il can't make up their minds when exactly they started dating (Nae Il would say either the day Yoo Jin fell asleep at her doorstep or the day of their first duet, for sure; but Yoo Jin's answer would considerably later). And if you can't even figure that out as a couple...the rest won't work  

 

6 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

That scene was hilarious, Nae Il was asking Min Do-Hee to spread rumors about them, like they are already started living like husband and wife

 

I think the moment that absolutely made that scene was Mini Min Hee's reaction once Yoo Jin showed up - she was just like, "Yep. I knew it."

 

6 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

I consider both have similar settings in way, both countries were invaded and lost the sovereignty of the people to a foreign rule. But the treatment was selective in the case of "The sound of music", where as "The flowers of war" had more violent treatments regardless of age/gender

 

Actually, the Anschluss (i.e. the Nazi annexation of Austria prior to and during WWII) is more complicated than the Imperial Japanese invasion of China, since there were many people who both supported and opposed the Nazi party at the time. So the perspective that's shown in The Sound of Music - where Germany was definitely the aggressor - is not the whole story, and some have argued that Austria's claim to being a victim of foreign occupation has allowed the government and the general public to deny their involvement in atrocities like the Holocaust until official policy finally shifted in the 1980s.

 

7 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

A lot of people blame right-wing for WW2, it is not that simple, yes, Nationalism had role in it, but that nationalism was in it's extreme form. Nationalism is not inherently bad, it brings people together, as long as it is not based on religion/race/ethnicity, nationalism can foster brotherhood among all the  people of a country. 

 

I also think patriotism, in moderation, can be good - as long as it doesn't get to the point of xenophobia or an inability to recognize one's own country's faults.

[kireeti2]

6 hours ago, kittyna said:

to be fair, probably even Yoo Jin and Nae Il can't make up their minds when exactly they started dating (Nae Il would say either the day Yoo Jin fell asleep at her doorstep or the day of their first duet, for sure; but Yoo Jin's answer would considerably later). And if you can't even figure that out as a couple...the rest won't work  

I think they officially started dating after the Blind audition episode, but before that they had a fight like real couple when all his friends were flocking to Lee Yoon-Hoo, and Yoo jin started to show his jealousy side when Nae-Il started hanging out with Yoon-Hoo. 

 

6 hours ago, kittyna said:

So I find it fascinating that so much of Korean etiquette is based around knowing each person's age - a cultural quirk that shows up as an example of the culture shock faced by Korean expats/immigrants/etc. in North America in this sketch (when the hoobae in the office starts bossing around his sunbae because he's actually older )

Lol!! That small face compliment though, Joo won always gets this compliment  on variety shows or some celebrity talking  about him. It's the first thing they say about Joo Won that "his face is small", I though they were just describing him physically, now I understand that it is a compliment in Korea 

 

6 hours ago, kittyna said:

I can attest to doing every single time someone refers to their significant other as their "partner" because then it could go either way

Lol!! Just like Kim Sang-Il's homosexual radar in Kim's convenience show 

[kittyna]

8 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

I think they officially started dating after the Blind audition episode, but before that they had a fight like real couple when all his friends were flocking to Lee Yoon-Hoo, and Yoo jin started to show his jealousy side when Nae-Il started hanging out with Yoon-Hoo. 

 

I think so, too - but it was such a slow burn that they never really had a moment when they went, "Okay; let's start dating." They sort of just...did, but still with more a "dating my best friend" vibe than a very romantic or passionate relationship.

 

For me, the turning point is that I think Yoo Jin is confessing to Nae Il when he first brings up playing a piano concerto with her. Nae Il then asks if he means "like a real couple", and Yoo Jin just goes, "Mm" while smiling at her. It's true that even after that point, Yoo Jin shies away from any discussion that they might actually be a couple - he tends to change the subject when Nae Il brings it up - but that was the most open Yoo Jin was about his feelings until that backhug scene near the end.

 

Thinking about it that way, it makes sense that even after everything they've been through, Yoo Jin is still reluctant to kiss Nae Il by the end of the drama. For him, he always needs to be able to open up emotionally before he could do so physically, so even initiating a hug is a massive step. Kisses do eventually happen (in my fics, at least), but not in as short a timeline as the one we get in the final episode of the drama.

 

8 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Lol!! That small face compliment though, Joo won always gets this compliment  on variety shows or some celebrity talking  about him. It's the first thing they say about Joo Won that "his face is small", I though they were just describing him physically, now I understand that it is a compliment in Korea 

 

Small face or even a small head

[kireeti2]

1 hour ago, kittyna said:

For me, the turning point is that I think Yoo Jin is confessing to Nae Il when he first brings up playing a piano concerto with her. Nae Il then asks if he means "like a real couple", and Yoo Jin just goes, "Mm" while smiling at her

Yeah, you are right. After that scene , they show us Yoo jin and Nae-il sitting  together in park, Yoo jin was practicing his music/score, while Nae-il was reading a book on "how to date", and started to tell Yoo jin that their relationship has passed first two stages and the next stage is "dating"

 

1 hour ago, kittyna said:

Small face or even a small head

I think the pc word is small face synonymous to "baby face"

[kittyna]

4 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Yeah, you are right. After that scene , they show us Yoo jin and Nae-il sitting  together in park, Yoo jin was practicing his music/score, while Nae-il was reading a book on "how to date", and started to tell Yoo jin that their relationship has passed first two stages and the next stage is "dating"

 

lol - Followed by changing Nae Il's contact on Yoo Jin's phone  As she points out afterwards, what matters isn't so much whether or not he felt awkward adding the hearts, but that he didn't remove them once she took over and put them in herself.  

 

4 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

I think the pc word is small face synonymous to "baby face"

 

Saying someone is baby-faced is different from saying they have a small face. For example: at a public event during his enlistment, JW tried to deflect compliments about his good looks by countering that his face had gotten chubbier (i.e. bigger) since enlisting, but the only way he could describe it was using words like "fat" or "little boy". So, yep - definitely something different  But many of JW's fans like how he looks when he's chubbier, so it's all good.

 

So, I do want to actually move on to the Final Round for the toll that I started a few weeks ago. But, as you guys know, Round Two ended with a clear winner in one pair and a tie in another. Just to recap:

 

Spoiler

Park Si On and Kim Tae Hyun were tied, while Cha Yoo Jin was the winner in his round.

 

I thought to set up some sort of tie-breaker, but I couldn't really come up with anything that wouldn't be implicitly biased or that wouldn't just end up in another tie  So this time, I'm just going to concede by saying we probably won't have an overall winner.  Instead, I'm going to end this by advancing BOTH tied characters, as follows:

 

Spoiler

Which JW Drama Character would be the Best Dad? You Decide!

 

Rules/How This Works

For each character in the following pairs, pick the one that you think would be the better dad. No real standards - what you think makes a good dad or not is entirely up to you.

 

Again, feel free to elaborate on your responses at any time, but just casting votes with no explanation is also fine.

 

Final Round (sort of )

 

1. Who do you think would be a better dad?

A - Park Si On

B - Cha Yoo Jin

 

2. Who do you think would be a better dad?

A - Kim Tae Hyun

B - Cha Yoo Jin

 

So, yep - not particularly even at all, and that's okay. This isn't about narrowing responses down to one anymore - just trying out all the available possibilities to see what happens.

[kireeti2]

9 hours ago, kittyna said:

So, yep - not particularly even at all, and that's okay. This isn't about narrowing responses down to one anymore - just trying out all the available possibilities to see what happens

Lol!! Looking at the options it almost feels like you want Cha yoo-Jin to win 

 

9 hours ago, kittyna said:

1. Who do you think would be a better dad?

A - Park Si On

B - Cha Yoo Jin

Although, Cha Yoo-Jin as experience in raising Nae-il(at least from music perspective), I think he lacks patience, and can lose temper quickly. We can see in the beginning of the series , where he took time in understanding about his friends and people around him, so I don't think he might instantly become a better dad, but he'll take his time to adapt and become best dad. On the other hand, Si-on tends to be more understanding at least when it comes to kids, with adults he does have lag in understanding. But with kids he instantly more understanding and accommodating, has we can see in series where he even helped a kid who was not able to talk, he not only understood what she wants, but also helped her to become better both physically and emotionally. With his own kids, I think Si-on will even do a better job. Therefore, I choose Park-si-on

 

11 hours ago, kittyna said:

2. Who do you think would be a better dad?

A - Kim Tae Hyun

B - Cha Yoo Jin

This one is rather tough than the former one. Both are level headed and impulsive at the same time. Both have fathers who were not appreciative towards them, but it is worst in the case of Kim Tae-Hyun. According to me and what I have read, ones childhood and interaction with parents plays major role not in ones life choices and life style, but also it manifests in ones parenting style. Here Cha Yoo-jin have little edge, because he was raised in a stable environment, whether it was at his Uncle's house or with his mom, he was in a loving environment and was kind of spoiled. On the other hand Tae-Hyun was forced to grow-up in order to help his mom and take care of sister, so he might see parenting in that perspective and top of that his life style took a drastic change after Yeo-jin, so he might be confused on how to raise his kids, whether he want them to be raised like chaebol or like the way grew up. So he might take time to find his own golden mean. Where as Cha Yoo-jin has a clear path, he needs to raise his kids and Nae-il at the same time , but can foresee a situation where Nae-il would raise up to the occasion and help Yoo-jin. Either way Cha Yoo-jin has better understanding and experience to be better dad from the beginning. Just like my above explanation Kim Tae-Hyun will become a better father with the passing of time. So, my choice is B. Cha Yoo-Jin

[kireeti2]

11 hours ago, kittyna said:

lol - Followed by changing Nae Il's contact on Yoo Jin's phone  As she points out afterwards, what matters isn't so much whether or not he felt awkward adding the hearts, but that he didn't remove them once she took over and put them in herself.  

Yeah, but he gave an explanation that he did not had time to change it and I do think that explanation hold water, so I think sub-consciously he didn't wanted to change, but technically he forgot

[kireeti2]

Looks like Joo won is really enjoying filming this series more than his previous projects. He never posted any scenery from his previous dramas, except with cast

 

I don't know if it's a scene or just a photo from behind the scenes I think the guy in white is Joo won

 

 

[kittyna]

7 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Lol!! Looking at the options it almost feels like you want Cha yoo-Jin to win 

 

Not necessarily - what I am hoping is that we may end up with a "Top Three" sort of ranking. But even that might be easier said than done  

 

7 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Both are level headed and impulsive at the same time. Both have fathers who were not appreciative towards them, but it is worst in the case of Kim Tae-Hyun. According to me and what I have read, ones childhood and interaction with parents plays major role not in ones life choices and life style, but also it manifests in ones parenting style. Here Cha Yoo-jin have little edge, because he was raised in a stable environment, whether it was at his Uncle's house or with his mom, he was in a loving environment and was kind of spoiled. On the other hand Tae-Hyun was forced to grow-up in order to help his mom and take care of sister, so he might see parenting in that perspective and top of that his life style took a drastic change after Yeo-jin, so he might be confused on how to raise his kids, whether he want them to be raised like chaebol or like the way grew up.

 

There are some things that I'm saving for my own response to the questions, but I can say something here without giving too much away.

 

I think that for both Cha Yoo Jin and Kim Tae Hyun, their upbringing would have turned into more of a community effort. We see that explicitly in Nae Il's Cantabile, where Yoo Jin points out that his grandfather and uncle had a hand in raising him (or, at least that he lived with them for a time). I also think it's possible that Song Mi Na stepped in as a quasi-maternal figure whenever Yoo Jin's actual mom was away on business (which was a lot); we see her ribbing Yang Sun Young for trying to play an active role in Yoo Jin's life now when she hurt his feelings by not always being around for him when he was younger - and how would Mi Na know that if she and Yoo Jin just had a teacher-student relationship?

 

As for Tae Hyun, even with how messed up his own immediate family life was because of his father, I like to hope that neighbours and friends stepped in to help. Looking back as an adult, he describes the help he got as coming out of pity, but at least it seems like there was something.

 

7 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Yeah, but he gave an explanation that he did not had time to change it and I do think that explanation hold water, so I think sub-consciously he didn't wanted to change, but technically he forgot

 

lol - Cha Yoo Jin's denials are always funny, because his actions show what he's thinking subconsciously even if his reactions don't match up.  

 

10 minutes ago, kireeti2 said:

Looks like Joo won is really enjoying filming this series more than his previous projects. He never posted any scenery from his previous dramas, except with cast

 

I also think it's because Instagram Stories is a relatively new feature - he seems to prefer posting there than on Instagram itself, and I don't remember if Stories was even around when he was filming My Sassy Girl or any of his earlier dramas.

[kireeti2]

3 hours ago, kittyna said:

There are some things that I'm saving for my own response to the questions, but I can say something here without giving too much away.

Looking forward to it. But your reasons never fails to surprise me. Reading a different perspective real does blow my mind, like my reaction is  Why I didn't think like that and that's a good reason to back the answer. When it comes to Joo won's character I am kind of  hubris, like I think I know everything about the character and then your response shows me that "I missed that part or that perspective"

[kittyna]

When you sit down and think about it, the earth's rotation is actually really weird sometimes - because here I am in Canada, where it's still June 8 and the sun hasn't even set yet...and all the June 9 "10th Anniversary" tributes are starting to flood in.

 

(This is by no means comprehensive: just a sampling of what's been going up online. And I'm putting them under "Hidden Content" because there are a ton of pics)

 

Spoiler

 

This is the smaller version of a large banner originally made of three Instagram posts (but there's no way that'd ever show up properly here, so...mini-version it is!):

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That aside, I also want to quickly give my responses to my own poll questions - but first....

 

6 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Looking forward to it. But your reasons never fails to surprise me. Reading a different perspective real does blow my mind, like my reaction is  Why I didn't think like that and that's a good reason to back the answer. When it comes to Joo won's character I am kind of  hubris, like I think I know everything about the character and then your response shows me that "I missed that part or that perspective"

 

I know - I like reading your responses for the same reason  So here are mine.

 

Spoiler

1. Who do you think would be a better dad?

A - Park Si On

B - Cha Yoo Jin

 

This one, for me, was a tough one because it's a little like comparing apples and oranges. Park Si On and Cha Yoo Jin would be so different in their parenting techniques, styles, priorities, etc. that it's hard to say much more than that I think they'd both be good in their own respective ways. Park Si On would definitely be the playful, understanding dad who wants to be his kids' best friend - but at the same time, I think he'd devote a lot of time and energy into making sure they have a strong ethical foundation in life from a very early age. His kids would also have the benefit of learning empathy from example: both because Si On is himself an extremely empathetic person (he struggles to communicate it, but the compassionate feelings are a near-constant with him), and because they'd learn how to extend empathy to people with disabilities or people who are otherwise marginalized. Si On also has, as @kireeti2 pointed out, a strong intuitive sense; given the time and safe space to do so, he's actually really good at guessing what children think or feel - even if he still struggles with understanding his fellow adults.

 

As for Cha Yoo Jin, he'd be the firmer/stricter dad: the kind who sets clear boundaries and standards that he expects his kids to follow, but who wouldn't go so far as to be draconian in enforcing those rules. He would also, compared to Si On, be far better at handling a crisis or an emergency. To be fair, both Si On and Yoo Jin suffer from anxiety to a certain degree; but where Si On has a tendency to swing between either freezing up or going into overdrive "Bbali, bbali!" mode, Yoo Jin is more likely to be able to push his panic aside and act decisively in the heat of the moment (like what we see with the Rachmaninoff concerto, when he powers himself through his own anxiety attack by reminding himself that he's the conductor and the orchestra's counting on him).  And considering how complicated the 21st century world is turning out to be...I think that's an asset that a father is going to need, because his children will be looking to him for a solution. It doesn't have to be perfect - it might not even work - but a father who can stay calm on the outside (even if he's freaking out on the inside) can do a lot to allay his children's own fears.

 

2. Who do you think would be a better dad?

A - Kim Tae Hyun

B - Cha Yoo Jin

 

And here's where I just may end up surprising some people  But, really, my reasoning's pretty straightforward: if I thought Cha Yoo Jin edged out over Park Si On due to how he would react in the face of difficulties, then I think Kim Tae Hyun does an even better job at it.  Both Tae Hyun and Yoo Jin are quick thinkers who, despite first impressions (especially Yoo Jin), can actually be quite flexible when they need to be. However, Tae Hyun is significantly more worldly-wise than Yoo Jin is, with a better sense of the pros and cons of different actions, and a better ability to process all of that quickly in order to find the best (and, in his case, it really could be truly the best) way to resolve the conflict/problem/crisis/etc. By contrast, Yoo Jin might be well-traveled compared to Tae Hyun, but he's mostly lived in his own musical bubble, and his people skills don't expand much further than that: add some negotiating/diplomacy skills from dealing with Haneum's admin, the people in charge of Nat Il's competition, etc., but throw him into some of the problems our world is facing now (and the awkward questions his kids would ask about those problems) and he's kinda lost.

 

I also think, for the sake of argument, that Tae Hyun would simply have a better knack and rapport with kids than Yoo Jin - we see that in how he interacts with the church kids, for example. His more extroverted nature helps here, because it means that his first instinct when, say, his kid wants to play with him or tries to show affection is to be friendly, approachable, and understanding - Yoo Jin, on the other hand, would have this awkward phase where he'd be initially caught off guard (and might even react grumpily at first) until he warms up enough to reciprocate. That might not be the case every single time, but I think that that general pattern will stay that way: Tae Hyun would welcome surprise gifts or jokes or hugs from his kids, while Yoo Jin would be startled.  

 

So, in a way, Kim Tae Hyun wound up being the overall winner for me personally, because if Park Si On and Cha Yoo Jin are two ends of a spectrum (at least out of these three), Tae Hyun is the one in the middle with the best of both worlds 

 

Finally, I do want to point out: whatever I think of these characters as dads, chances are, most of their shortcomings will be balanced out by the moms  Just saying.