[[Drama 2023] King the Land ♔ 킹더랜드 - JunHo & YoonA]

Really Looking forward to this show.  Wondering what the story is with the mean sister.  She is so worried about him taking over....even when he says that he does not want any inheritance.

[[Upcoming Drama 2024] Weak Hero Class 2 , 약한영웅 Class 2- Season 2 premieres in 2024]

Ok, so this drama was awesome!  I want to ask everyone for comments....but do not want to have any spoilers for those that haven't binged this.  

 

1) When will Season 2 be available?

2) Will Soo Ho be in the next season?

 

I think those two questions don't give much away.

 

 

[[Drama 2023] The Uncanny Counter 2, 경이로운 소문 2]

Seriously loving this show right now.  I can't wait for the next episode and to discover how everyone is tied together.  

[[Drama 2020] Do You Like Brahms?, 브람스를 좋아하세요?]

@nicoley  thanks for the video of the classical artists reviewing the first 2 episodes.  It was hilarious!!

[[Drama 2020] Do You Like Brahms?, 브람스를 좋아하세요?]

Did anyone notice that SA's neck wound from her violin kept getting worse and more noticeable during episode 13?  At the beginning of the drama someone, I think her frenemy/peer, mentioned that the neck bruise/wound was because the violin did not fit properly (Please correct me if I'm wrong)

 

It was a tough day for SA, unexpected nuggets of truth - comments from Manager Cha at the school meeting regarding planning for after graduation music careers and her description of how many musicians just fade away into the darkness avoiding the light watching from backstage as more successful colleagues take center stage (describing SA during her first concert) 

 

SA's comments to Manager Cha about envying people that spoke their minds because people that speak their minds speak back and don't allow themselves to be hurt by others' comments and finally her surprise dinner with HH and his thoughts on music and relationships/the loss of JK and it's impact to his future and how the music and his dreams where negatively impacted by the end of the relationship.  Foreshadowing the same situation SA would eventually find herself in relationship or music....

 

That evening she was putting ointment on her neck and she used the word vanity which I thought was interesting.  Vanity has two definitions:

1.

excessive pride in or admiration of one's own appearance or achievements.

"it flattered his vanity to think I was in love with him"

2.

the quality of being worthless or futile.

"the vanity of human wishes"

 

I thought it was interesting to see that both definitions actually work in her comments to herself.  

 

Did anyone notice that the next day when SA went to Professor Duster to tell her that she was resigning as the Chamber Orchestra Secty....her neck wound was just about gone.

 

The wound was in my opinion just another obvious representation of what was wrong/had been wrong for awhile in her life and when she made a move to break away the physical manifestation of her pain, disappointment, doubt, hurt etc. started to get better...

[[Drama 2020] Do You Like Brahms?, 브람스를 좋아하세요?]

@Jillia I agree with your comments regarding the break up of our dimple couple.  Both needed to grow as individuals in order to be better partners.  If SA can't get to a point where she can be strong and believe in herself then how can she date someone that is famous?   She has to believe that she is "more" than just her aspirations to play music, the last chair in the violin section, DY's girlfriend etc.  

 

One thing I will say, is that she gave up rather quickly and for her it was not only the pressure of finally realizing that her musical career was never going to be what she hopped for and wanted as well as the doubt surrounding JK and JY's relationship. (I will be very disappointed if she becomes a violin prodigy within the last two episodes 'cause why would they do that and destroy a beautiful example of finding yourself through the loss of your dream...meaning wake up to reality) For her it was a Tsunami of emotions that she could not cope with and the easiest thing for her to do was to cut JY loose- she wanted to go back to a time when she had some emotional control.  However, that time still was not the best time for her - she wasn't the happiest of campers within her music world.  She was still dead last, shamed out of performing, pressured by her family and in secret love with DY/supporting MS's swooning and angst regarding DY.

 

I hope that what the writer shared with us is SA's complete epiphany that she needs to go back to the drawing board and start from scratch and do a complete life makeover.  Discover a path for music and something else (work) that makes her happy, building self - esteem maybe some Dr. Phil classes on communication and boundaries and strength in vulnerability and for JY putting his foot down and stop saying sorry all of the time.  He said it to everyone, over and over again trying to make everyone happy, a true people pleaser who needs to say "No" and mean it.  Who needs to let his parents business messes actually fail and let them find ways to figure it out with out him and to play like he wants to play with a darn piano that is repaired and ready for his gut check note...and time for JK to move on from her feelings and controlling behavior.

 

And finally upon reflection, neither of them have solid-steady healthy relationships with anyone.  They each struggled to create boundaries with their friends and family as well as communicate their most vulnerable feelings with others.  

 

I'm looking forward to our dimple couple growing up a bit on their own and then meeting again more sophisticated and confident ready to lock lips and give us a concert of love.

[[Drama 2020] Do You Like Brahms?, 브람스를 좋아하세요?]

A couple of thoughts on the last two episodes:

 

1) When you compare the work and abuse that SA has gone through to chase her musical career (long list here starting with four failed entrance exams, years of family pressure, rude comments from her peers and profs, compromising her values and ethics with getting into musical grad school / Chamber Orchestra errands) and her relationship with JY....it didn't take much for her to break up with him...

 

2) I felt the most sorry for JY.  The guy deserved to have a support...it's not all about JK and SA.

 

3) Cheers for HH.  The guy is moving forward and shrugging off dysfunctional JK in a classy way.

 

4) It's not a surprise that SA and JY broke up.  They are both in a bad place in their respective lives and instead of being a support to each other, they added pressure although I thought that JY tried to make it work, but couldn't communicate nor do the right thing at the right time.

Timing is everything and love does not conquer all.  However, I'm surprised that it was SA breaking up and not in a noble idiot kind of way instead of JY breaking up because he had to focus on the competition.

 

5.  The video of the party given in honor of SA when she was accepted into music school - Saying she was happy and smiling.  Really a happy moment.  When did we ever really see her that consistently happy again?  Maybe the few dates she went on but not in the course of chasing her dream.  When chasing your dream you should be the most happy - yet she wasn't.  The brief moments of happiness came from her budding relationship with JY.

 

6.  So many dysfunctional and emotionally stunted people in this show.  I thought that SA was the way she was in part because of her family...yet her older sister supported her in the right moment with the right words.  

[[Drama 2020] Do You Like Brahms?, 브람스를 좋아하세요?]

Greetings Fellow Brahms Lovers,

I watched the last two episodes and I'm not sure what I'm feeling more strongly about.  I could discuss several overarching themes such as:

 

Disappointment

1. Children disappointing their parents.

2. Parents disappointing their children.

3. Classmates/Friends/Teachers/Managers all disappointing each other etc.

 

Denial

1. SA and her musical career.  She is in denial to the point that she keeps being used by her Prof. and ends up doing things that compromises her feelings and values.

2.  JK her issues with her future, her love for JY and her talent

3.  HH - still being kind to JK will not repair the relationship.  You guys are still over..

4.  JY - no matter how many times he saves his parents - they will still be there with the same problems - needing him to save them

 

Truth -

1. A few hard truths came out for SA - Manager telling her that no matter how good or how much she tries it's just not going to cut it.

2.  JY - His parents are a burden that he can't escape from.

3.  JK realizing that the girl she gave the lesson to is just like her.  Fear of her mother.

 

I'm sure there are more, these are just a few thoughts off the top of my head.  That being said, I noticed that the promo for next weeks episode showed more truth being revealed which will hopefully help our leads deal with denial and disappointment.

 

I'm an introvert who has had to learn to be an extrovert at times.  Yet, watching SA and JY stoically taking the constant heaping of negativity is starting to feel like I'm watching a show where puppies keep getting kicked.  I'm starting to realize that SA and JY, much as I hoped at the start of this drama would find a backbone and stand up for themselves and each other are still not there...and will they ever be?  Maybe this will happen soon or hopefully by the last episode - but, it's starting to wear on me and frustrate me.  

 

I'm a fan of the underdog.  I like my leading ladies to have a bit of steel in their backbones when it counts.  I'm hoping that both our leads are able to find the determination to love themselves (SA hugging her violin and telling it that she loved it was for me, a declaration that she loved herself) to stand up and carve out a path to a great life doing what they want to do, loving each other and finding happiness together whether they are accepted by their families, friends or colleagues.  

 

Not sure how you all might feel, but I'm feeling that this show is spinning it's wheels on the same old same old pile on bullying trope and not spending "enough time" on our couple standing up for themselves.  At least can they just say "no" at this stage?

 

 

 

 

[[Drama 2020] Do You Like Brahms?, 브람스를 좋아하세요?]

7 hours ago, peachietime said:

I agree that HH should be mad at both JY and JK, however, I can understand why he is behaving how he is right now. He is always on the lower head in his relationship with JK and his love to her is above anything. Him going to good schools is also FOR JK. He doesn't even know how to be mad at JK. He thinks JY is always going to be support him, but to him, it's almost as if JY has stabbed him from his back. Even his best intentions, the end result is JY was playing the piano for JK for 15 years, and there were unspoken romance between the two behind HH's back, and now JK is now falling for JY. If HH would have known earlier, things might change sooner, but at least it would be "fair" to HH so both of them are on the same battleground. If JY cannot "stop loving", then it's true that JY should have told HH instead of

 

@peachietime Your comment made me think a bit more about HH and JK's relationship.  Did it seem to you or anyone else watching that HH had a naive view of his 10 year relationship with JK and how it had been perceived by others or what his role would have been if he successfully married into that family.  I thought it was telling when JK's Dad and Grandmother where having lunch and she asked him the rather insightful question of how it felt to be in a place where he didn't belong...not the restaurant but his role in a Chaebol household having come from a humble farming background.  

 

So, for Grandmother, with JK inheriting the Foundation, is JY any better of a suitor for JK than HH?  Would Grandma be more open and accepting of this relationship?

 

In regards to the triangle between JK/JY/HH.  Why did JK choose HH?  All of the flashbacks from previous episodes show a lukewarm relationship - yet the flashbacks of JK and JY are deep with shared loneliness and comfort.  The blame of this triangle lays at the feet of JK.  She KNEW that JY liked her all along...you can't deny 15 years of CD's.  She did not put a stop to his feelings.  She allowed it to continue because JY provided something for her that HH did not.  JK hurt both HH and JY.  You know what they say, "hurt people hurt people."

 

47 minutes ago, Aziraphale said:

Song-ah feels awful because Jung-kyung is playing the way she would want to, and with Joon-young of all people, but at this stage, she needs to start questioning what it is she wants out of music and life.

@Aziraphale

I agree with your comment.  Why does SA need to get a Masters in music?  Why does she need to stay in a place that constantly puts her down?  I love music and art.  I'm no Van Goh - or Mozart but I still love it and enjoy it as often as I can.  So why does she have this masochistic need to be there - to get this degree?  Can't loving it and enjoying it be enough?  I think that for SA the reason that she is there is because she hopes that by being successful in something that she loves - it will give her definition.  Music communicates, and as much as SA tries, she can't.  She struggles with communicating verbally at times just as she must struggle with communication musically.  I thought that it was interesting that she was ok playing the violin piece alone but when the piano accompanist tried to play with her it was awkward and difficult.  So, seeing JK and JY playing so beautifully together - that was a type of communication that SA longs deeply for with others and especially with JY.

 

I've read a few predictions on a break up.  I think that JY has the most pressure at this point.  Like the flashback (not sure which episode 9 or 10) He is going to be put in a situation where he will have to completely focus on the competition and SA's wavering along with Manager Park's machinations will just add fuel to the fire.  I think that JY will have to walk away in order to focus and SA will have to get strong, say no to people for a change and decide what to do about her musical career.

[[Drama 2020] Do You Like Brahms?, 브람스를 좋아하세요?]

@Jillia

On 9/28/2020 at 12:31 PM, Jillia said:

But I genuinely think she meant it as a teacher. She said herself it's something she believes she can be good at.

 

 Its interesting that there are several examples of 'teachers' on this show.  Will JK be the type of teacher like JY's professor Yoo   "Being a good teacher doesn't always make a great performer" or the lazy, jealous and scheming professors Song and Lee. Full of self importance and deep resentments.  Do any of them love music anymore?  I'm sure they did not start as they have ended up, but it makes me think that with JK's personality and her "talent" having gone AWOL...are we maybe seeing how she might end up?

 

As to the update on the big reveal with SA/DY/MS/JY/HH (hard to keep all of these names straight)  The heart wants what it wants.  It's a bit arrogant for HH and MS to be as angry with SA and JY because they liked DY and KJ.  DY and MS had been broken up for awhile, and she seemed more angry because SA held a secret back from her.  Same can be said for HH and JY.  Main point is that SA and JY where true friends.  They stayed still, supported their friends, comforted and counseled and didn't cause heartache or drama.  They were unselfish and showed true love - hopping others could be happier with their chosen mates.  I have no patience for them.

[[Drama 2020] Do You Like Brahms?, 브람스를 좋아하세요?]

@Jillia @Abirami Ramakrishnan thanks for your comments on what I recently posted. It also gave me some food for thought.  I definitely will continue to enjoy the drama with all of you and post when I can. 

 

I want to preface my comments by saying that I really like both SA and JY and love them as our MC.  I think they are great together and that they will both grow individually to make the best partner for each other.  That being said, my comments are more about how I see them having issues that will cause difficult moments that will resolve them into more mature characters leading to growth and a healthier love.

 

@Jillia I agree, JY has more on his plate than who he accompanies.  I was caught up in the moment - when JY asked her to wait for him, and came and told her that he was going to help JK. It was not what either she nor I expected.  I thought he would have said that he was going to help her (SA).   At that instant I felt a sense of betrayal on behalf of SA.  The timing of the confession seemed a bit "manipulative" or perhaps it was "bad timing" especially after the bomb he dropped.  What he said had hurt her, and she was leaving and to stop her he blurted it out kind of surprising both of them followed by ...a great kiss scene.  I kind of felt like it was putting a band aid on the situation - like he had to say something because it hurt her (SA) and she was leaving.   

 

I also agree,  that in KY's eyes he doesn't see his actions as a betrayal of SA but a way to help his friend work through her painful past, one that he is intimately familiar with.  I also don't think that JY can fully comprehend what it means to SA to continue her musical dream because he doesn't fully grasp what it means to not have talent.  Even though both work hard, the "talentless" aspect is foreign to him as per the scene earlier in the show when he complained to SA about his life on the road and how he wished that things had been different.  Perhaps he will start to learn a bit more about how it feels to meet others with more talent as he starts to chase after the new/hot right now pianist (Min or Ming) who he will probably face in the Tchaikovsky Competition and by that process becoming more fully and deeply invested in helping SA achieve her dreams and maybe he will have to surrender his control and aim for more of the 2 judges giving him 10's (like the woman conductor told him in the first ep) than the 7-8's across the board.  Letting himself go and letting passion and the love of music to return and not just a "job" to keep his head and that of his families above water.

 

So, I'm going to continue to side with SA on this one.  Now, both JY and DY have chosen another before SA.  (I suspect that after DY has confessed to SA you will see him getting more involved to help SA achieve her goals which will also put more pressure on JY- and never mind that as far as SA is concerned JY will be spending more time with the woman he loves/ed and who now has no reason to hold back on her pursuit of JY - where does that leave SA?)

 

So, who really supports SA's dream?  Off the top of my head, DY and maybe...a bit...her father.  Her story arc and issues that need to be addressed surrounds her lack of confidence.  Is this atmosphere (music) the place for her to build her self-confidence if she is always coming up short.  She is the opposite of JY.  She loves music and practices hard but without the natural talent she is at her limits.  So maybe her path will be one of working within the music industry (like the foundation) and celebrating her love for music that way where she was able to shine by giving good advice, supportive and caring of others and able to think quickly on her feet.

 

Anyway, SA has just started to stand up for herself...at the very least, even though she doesn't stand up for "herself" she stands up for her "dream".  I would like to see her work through this enough that she can "walk away" from JY at this point and believe that she deserves more - someone who will support her first.  Her walking away would only help JY finally break away from JK's control.  He needs to do that because I think that he may like SA but he still loves JK and JY and SA can't be together until his feelings for JK are finished.

 

@Abirami Ramakrishnan I agree, that JY does feel like he should or needs to help her after all of their years/feelings/relationship.  For JK, HH and JY are the perfect "man."  She has both in her life because they offer her something she needs and wants.  HH is not complicated he does everything for her.  Perfectly supportive with no expectations of her (unlike her family) and JY is her emotional support yet it's hard for her to be reminded that she can't or couldn't achieve his greatness or live up to her mothers legacy.  (funny thing that both JY and her mother are/where piano prodigy's hence the weird symbolism with JK's mothers piano going back and forth) 

 

So here is my question.  Why do you think JK secretly gave JY's mother/father money?  Why did she encourage the Chopin competition which took him out of her life for long?

 

Finally,  I think that in the "real" world the best way for JY to get through this would have been to not "help" any of them.  Then the chips would fall where they should.  

1) JK would either get the job on her own or not

2) HH wouldn't have to be hurt further by having his friend and his ex team up against him to take away his chances of a wonderful job that would help him move up economically and socially above his current station (and a way to honor his parents sacrifices)

3) SA would pass or fail - more than likely fail.  Maybe that is what may need to happen for SA.  Maybe music isn't her dream.  Maybe her path to happiness isn't to continue in a field where she is constantly insulted, undermined and dis-respected.

 

 

 

 

[[Drama 2020] Do You Like Brahms?, 브람스를 좋아하세요?]

On 9/25/2020 at 5:25 PM, nubianlegalmind said:

I don't feel any sympathy for MS because she knew how her girl felt, I know she did. I also don't feel any sympathy because DY was honest with her about what happened. He didn't lead her on, he straight up admitted it was a mistake and now she's all emotional because he's not in love with her. This leads me to believe that in the past he must've been the one to decide it wasn't working out. And, all of this time, she had feelings for him that she hoped he would return. This is so messy.

 

On 9/25/2020 at 5:25 PM, nubianlegalmind said:

The real question is WHY did she start dating HH when she knew she was in love with JY? Also, no sympathy for HH. He knew she was in love with his friend and knew that because of his situation, JY would never approach JK so he swooped in.

 

Thanks @nubianlegalmind for your thoughts on these couples.  It's been a long time since I have posted on this forum, but still have enjoyed watching dramas when I can, and thinking about complex characters and their motivations makes for more interesting shows.  

 

These are definite love triangles as well as the triangle of talent, dreams and hard work.  With more similarities than at first glance, yet some differences which keeps it dynamic.  JK/JY/HH (2 boys one girl)  DY/SA/MS (Two girls one guy) and how all have some aspects or all aspects of the dreams/talent/and hard work ethic thrown in.

 

You have some great things to add to the conversation but I have to disagree with one idea.  I don't think that HH and MS knew that JY and SA liked JK and DY respectively.  I think that HH and MS are completely focused on their feelings, and needs and are unaware of their friends feelings or the pain that they have caused.  For HH, JY has always been there a part of their trio.  Supporting and caring regardless of his fame.  JY has always been alone...while HH and JK have had each other.  Therefore, it comes as a shock to HH that JK is wavering in her feelings for him and that her feelings for JY are strong enough to cause this rift.  

 

Regarding this trio (HH/JY/JK) you can see through out the show, JY's care for his friends.  In one episode we see JY care for HH after HH is drunk and even then HH asks him how long he is going to stay in Korea and then he tells him to leave.  Poor JY,  basically, "go back - kill yourself touring and continue to be alone so that I can continue my relationship with my girl without you confusing her"  

 

As far as JK is concerned.  I found her to be incredibly selfish, self-centered and destructive.  

She wants what she wants both professionally and personally and the heck with consequences.  "I don't want to be a Director, I want to teach" (girl you have so much money think about other people maybe needing the job...?) "I want to be a teacher so bad that I don't care who I hurt along the way..."  But wait a minute?  Didn't you kiss JY in New York because you were "Jealous" of him being on stage under the lights and getting loved and adored by everyone...is that when you realized he was for you?  Or that it was your place to be up there?  

 

Now, she wants to further destroy HH and JY's relationship by getting JY to be her accompanist and therefore to ace out HH for the job.  How absolutely horrible for HH.  She has known all along that JY has loved her...you can't deny it when you see her looking at all of the birthday CD's JY sent her or the code to his apartment being her birthday 07/15.  She has known all along....she has had both guys at her beck and call for many years....it's her due...the only one she cares about is herself - look at the cruel way she broke up with HH - she doesn't care as long as she gets what she wants/needs.

 

As far as DY/SA/MS.  I think it's truly MS not knowing about SA's feelings.  It looks to me like whenever they are together its MS talking about DY - how much she likes him, how he hurt her, confessing that they slept together in order to get support, advice and perspective from SA.  It's not all MS' fault as SA has never shared with her that she liked DY...SA has kept her feelings close to her heart.  SA did share with MS her feelings for JY and MS encouraged her but on a superficial level not understanding or caring about the complexity of SA's situation.  I would suspect that within the next couple of episodes MS will find out that DY likes SA and you will see a rift between MS and SA - which will mirror HH and JY.  The real dog here is DY.  He liked SA and then slept with her friend hurting both SA and MS.  Kind of like JK.

 

Lastly and finally (sorry for the long post but I needed to get this off my chest)  I'm not happy with how the last episode ended.  I know it's exciting that JY confessed to SA that he liked her and it was a fabulous kiss -  BUT!!! what happened before that confession and kiss.  That to me was the most important part.  Someone in the forum's post (sorry if I did not capture your thought and give you credit but it was a great thought so it came to mind as I was writing) that it mirrored the "I like you" confession btw JY and SA and not the hollow "I love you" confession btw JK and JY.  To look at actions instead of words and here I agree with this completely.

 

How can you like someone and not support their dreams?  Is JK's dream more important than SA's dream?  Earlier in the episode SA hinted at the possibility of JY accompanying her at her Master's recital (which we all know is a reach because it was all a ploy to get close and an in with JY) Isn't her dream to continue her musical education?  It's what brings joy to SA's life.  For this dream, she has gone against her mean spirited family, been humiliated by her peers on a daily basis - reminded that she doesn't have what it takes by conductors and students younger than she is - rich spoiled girls...on and on.  Yet the shy, sensitive SA continues forward keeping the small, sputtering flames of her dreams alive graciously and with a heck of a work ethic.  JK knows this.  HE KNOWS THIS.  Yet, he steered her politely away from the point and didn't let her ask him to accompany her.  He didn't want to cause waves with his jerk and controlling piano instructor who I might add besides trashing SA also trashed JK and HH.  

 

So when JK tearfully asks him to help her.  To help her get the teacher slot to accompany her so that she can get what she wants (and the heck with poor HH) what does he do?  He says OK.  He goes against his teacher, his friend HH and against the girl who has been his friend - the girl he likes.

 

Again, I ask - Is JK's dream more important than SA's?  JY just proved that it was.  If I where SA I would have walked out.  Like someone said before.  Actions speak louder than words and he, in my opinion, just did.

 

[[Drama 2017-2018] Money Flower 돈 꽃]

Another thought I had - will probably have many more since I just finished watching the ending and am still processing...how predictable, and sad in a way that we saw JBC trying out for the position of CEO at Cheong A.  I thought that after everything that he did, went through, heart ache that he caused and suffered he would have moved on with his life.  He seemed to have grown up a bit at the end and after all being Chairman was never 'his' dream until it was his obsession

 

1) Returning the abacus

2) Telling NMH good bye for real/removing the ring

3) Telling mistress to not demand Jang name anymore...not a name to be proud of but that he would set up will for his son

4) Moving out of Mishowan 

5) Coming to terms with his mother's brand of crazy

6) Cutting ties with KPJ

 

He never would have been able to be Chairman in the first place if not for KPJ and deep down he knows that...  Most everything in his life that was "worthwhile" had come from the blood, sweat and tears and sacrifices by the man who he and his mother had wronged.  Say what you want to say, but JBC did wrong KPJ - he knew that KPJ loved NMH and made him give her up.  

 

So, we see him trying to recover the position that his mother killed for.  In the end, he really was a pathetic creature...(at the mental hospital JMR said that Cheong A was hers and he was her son....how in the world and in any known universe does her dowry from X years ago amass the fortune that Cheong A represents today..)  

 

We saw two candidates not of blood judged by their accomplishments and skill.  There is no contest and maybe that is the look we see in JBC's eyes.  Surprise and a realization. 

 

I guess I would have been happier to have seen JBC playing piano and spending time with his mistress and son.  Being a father/parent and breaking the cycle of the path he had been forced to take.

21 minutes ago, kismet22 said:

Thoughts on the ending - last two episodes-

 

1) JBC returning the abacus to Gpa.  He started crying/sobbing in front of the man who tried to kill him...to me it high lighted weakness and not strength it was a clear illustration to Gpa of what JBC lacked-he was truly pathetic

2) The wine glass switcharoo...slight of hand at it's finest.

3) Secretary Ahn sticking it to JMR at the end.  The realization on JMR's face that she had been so totally outclassed and out manuvered

4) The prison scene with JBC and KPJ visiting JMR.  She didn't even notice JBC...it was total focus on KPJ and the past.  Her revenge on SM bc he wanted to leave her... Poor JBC....he really never was more to her than a tool

5) I really liked the idea KPJ had about funneling Gpa's illegal slush fund earnings into Cheong-Bio and creating a "legacy tower of medicine" that would outlive him for 100 years.  Towers come and go but lives saved lived forever.  In many ways, KPJ did alot to rehabilitate the Jang name.

6) Sad to see KPJ alone when he came out of jail.  People surprised to see him (NMH and President Woo) no one waiting for him.  Revenge had cost him everything again...he was alone as he always had been since the death of his family.  His mother's words in the will about living a full life and not one bent on revenge and his understanding of fulfilling her request to show himself to the Jang family on how well he had grown up.

7) One illegitimate son driven for money - bent on revenge knifed KPJ on the roof top.  He must have waited three years to do it.  Not as long or as intense of a revenge scheme as KPJ but a only a shadow of what KPJ did.  Two men in many ways alike in the eyes of the Jangs yet KPJ took down a whole institution and the illegitimate offspring of Gpa tried to take down KPJ.

8)  Again, NMH saved KPJ at the end.

9) The look on JBC's face when he realized that KPJ was there for the job.  There is no way, that JBC would ever be able to compete with him.  Interesting that we did not see JYC in the mix for that job.  He was in jail for 1 year.

10) Any moves for bringing NMH and KPJ together where done by her.  He stepped back first in her office I think bc he was going to jail.  The second seemed more hopeful.  He told her where he was going "rooftop" that is why she joined him.  Not sure but hopeful that there might be a positive ending "in our minds" of how things would have turned out for them.

11) The last scene...KPJ walking outside and looking up.  The sky was clear...clean and open for new beginnings.  It was almost hopeful.  A clean slate, fresh air "the skies the limit"

12) I liked what his friend YG said, that he should go to work for a competitor of Cheong A and take them down...I said that once about how the revenge or story could have played out differently.  If like others said in a magic and perfect world there where to be a second season how fun would it be for KPJ to do just that and take out JBC and others in a round two by managing a hostile takeover or Cheong A - 

13) The scene in the court room where the Jang's where sentenced.  The scene where Gpa looked down the line at KPJ, JSM and JYC getting cuffed.  The look on his face - defeated with a bit of realization that it was "over"

 

Yeah!  yet in my mind he deserved it at least as much as JYC....

@Jillia  Sorry, didn't realize that I did....thanks for the kind reminder

[[Drama 2017-2018] Money Flower 돈 꽃]

Thoughts on the ending - last two episodes-

 

1) JBC returning the abacus to Gpa.  He started crying/sobbing in front of the man who tried to kill him...to me it high lighted weakness and not strength it was a clear illustration to Gpa of what JBC lacked-he was truly pathetic

2) The wine glass switcharoo...slight of hand at it's finest.

3) Secretary Ahn sticking it to JMR at the end.  The realization on JMR's face that she had been so totally outclassed and out manuvered

4) The prison scene with JBC and KPJ visiting JMR.  She didn't even notice JBC...it was total focus on KPJ and the past.  Her revenge on SM bc he wanted to leave her... Poor JBC....he really never was more to her than a tool

5) I really liked the idea KPJ had about funneling Gpa's illegal slush fund earnings into Cheong-Bio and creating a "legacy tower of medicine" that would outlive him for 100 years.  Towers come and go but lives saved lived forever.  In many ways, KPJ did alot to rehabilitate the Jang name.

6) Sad to see KPJ alone when he came out of jail.  People surprised to see him (NMH and President Woo) no one waiting for him.  Revenge had cost him everything again...he was alone as he always had been since the death of his family.  His mother's words in the will about living a full life and not one bent on revenge and his understanding of fulfilling her request to show himself to the Jang family on how well he had grown up.

7) One illegitimate son driven for money - bent on revenge knifed KPJ on the roof top.  He must have waited three years to do it.  Not as long or as intense of a revenge scheme as KPJ but a only a shadow of what KPJ did.  Two men in many ways alike in the eyes of the Jangs yet KPJ took down a whole institution and the illegitimate offspring of Gpa tried to take down KPJ.

8)  Again, NMH saved KPJ at the end.

9) The look on JBC's face when he realized that KPJ was there for the job.  There is no way, that JBC would ever be able to compete with him.  Interesting that we did not see JYC in the mix for that job.  He was in jail for 1 year.

10) Any moves for bringing NMH and KPJ together where done by her.  He stepped back first in her office I think bc he was going to jail.  The second seemed more hopeful.  He told her where he was going "rooftop" that is why she joined him.  Not sure but hopeful that there might be a positive ending "in our minds" of how things would have turned out for them.

11) The last scene...KPJ walking outside and looking up.  The sky was clear...clean and open for new beginnings.  It was almost hopeful.  A clean slate, fresh air "the skies the limit"

12) I liked what his friend YG said, that he should go to work for a competitor of Cheong A and take them down...I said that once about how the revenge or story could have played out differently.  If like others said in a magic and perfect world there where to be a second season how fun would it be for KPJ to do just that and take out JBC and others in a round two by managing a hostile takeover or Cheong A - 

13) The scene in the court room where the Jang's where sentenced.  The scene where Gpa looked down the line at KPJ, JSM and JYC getting cuffed.  The look on his face - defeated with a bit of realization that it was "over"

 

19 minutes ago, kohnlee said:

Yes, now that u mentioned, everyone was protecting him and helping him to obtain Chairman position. He was the only one who went scot free. 

 

I cannot not get enough of MF. Everything about it was so good wasn’t? Even the BGM was soooo aptly used.

Yeah!  yet in my mind he deserved it at least as much as JYC....

[[Drama 2017-2018] Money Flower 돈 꽃]

On 2/3/2018 at 8:05 AM, UnniSarah said:

Now, isn't ironic JBC is not in jail but the rest are. JBC really has lived a charmed life. Everyone protected JBC till the end . Isn't he the luckiest man in the drama. It's seem being dumb was what saved him in the end. Is JBC chairman of the company ??? I would rather not have him be chairman of anything because he might succumb to the money again. smh Smh smh 

@UnniSarah  The one guy that missed jail twice and got off "scott free"....JBC should have gone to jail.  I'm sure that JMR and KPJ probably did everything to "protect" him during the campaign and after yet, the injustice was too much!!!  It actually really chaps me that he didn't spend some time behind bars.

[[Drama 2017-2018] Money Flower 돈 꽃]

5 hours ago, philosophie said:

 

And who killed JSM?? Was it JMR, JSM, or JKH??!

If we are talking about KPJ's Dad (JSM) then it won't matter in actual context since statue of limitations has expired.  I recall that JMR mentioned to KPJ (after the big reveal/white dress/tux incident) that KPJ couldn't prosecute her and OH for the death of his younger brother because the statue of limitations had expired - hence his fathers death was before his brothers death....however, it would be important in the scheme of things to discover who it was within the crazy Jang family that killed KPJ's father

[[Drama 2017-2018] Money Flower 돈 꽃]

4 hours ago, bebebisous33 said:

@purplebass I have a similar thought... they wouldn't show us such an event if this is the real cliffhanger. To me, they are misleading us. I hope, the circumstances of JSM's death will be finally revealed. This would be great if JSM, JKH and JMR got sent to jail for murder! 

J Seon M --> KPJ's car accident

JMR --> Oh and now KPJ

JKH --> NGC 

Agreed with comments just a quick thought...

1)  I think that the antidote will be administered by YG his friend and not NMH

2) The NGC attempted murder is a stronger case on JYC - remember that KPJ still has that recording and he is less subtle than Grandpa.  KPJ still needs to get him neutralized because in Grandpa's mind, he is still the last legitimate heir standing.

[[Drama 2017-2018] Money Flower 돈 꽃]

Just a quick comment on thoughts regarding NMH having her father appear on TV.  I think that it was actually KPJ that moved father before Grandpa's goons showed up and it was KPJ that had him appear on TV.  I haven't gone back to watch the episode but it looked like NMH arrived to find the door to her parents home open and the house dark implying that goons had been there and gone finding no - one and nothing.

 

It would be a classic KPJ move to be ahead of the Jangs with a preemptive strike using the resurrected Assemblyman by putting him on TV.   He needs to keep Grandpa, JMR and the rest of the Jangs on their heels.  After all, Assemblyman's testimony will fatally injure Grandpa and JYC (the only legitimate heir left in Grandpa's deck).

[[Drama 2017-2018] Money Flower 돈 꽃]

3 hours ago, imgreatgal said:

there were a few of it in that episode. When JMR said she will not go to prison because she doesn't want to wear those boring prison clothes, JEC said: 'you have to because you can't be naked in prison' hahaha i can't help laughing. 

I thought that her comments on her prison clothes was hilarious....."Ah, Hello reality JMR"  perhaps a Korean version of Orange is The New Black...

[[Drama 2017-2018] Money Flower 돈 꽃]

32 minutes ago, fragglerock said:

@kismet22  I am not sure if you can relate to this or not,  but i went through anxiety and recently hospital for a long term injury.  With the anxiety you have triggers that set you off but if it gets extreme and you experience it for a long time you dont feel anything at all, everything around you feels numb.  Its like you have fallen in a void and its too deep to get out of so you resolve comfortably to stay there for no better solution.  Same with hospital after a while there is the day in and day out stuff and you get to a calm resolute on things and the little things you stressed over at the drop of a hat you just look at em blankly with no feeling at all.  Things are way better now and all back in control but can relate to the abandon life bit.

 

I think thats the kind of experience i think they gave to KPJ, to him he nearly drowned the thoughts "It didnt take my life"  "Why was i left behind when they were all gone"  "I have nothing"  "I am a coward to staying here and not being with them".

 

There is also a section in the drama around episode 14-15 in "The Entertainer" when the truth comes out about his friend and the gravity of the outcome what he innocently started.  (involved a physically challenged guy in the music industry that didnt want to but was talented, then had to go on a trip.  The guys music was ripped off and he committed suicide, they found out the truth 10 years later).  The same sort of feelings there, dispair of whats happened of being left behind, helplessness of not being able to do something back at that time.  Even his brother felt it, he couldnt hate his brothers friend, didnt want to loose him as well, but felt guilty about his brother.

 

If step-mommy dearest hadnt tried to manipulate him when he first came to them and told him to say by JBC to help him become chairman he might of felt more guity about what he was doing.  But she continued to manipulate and had no remorse, so like he said at JBC bedside he only had two choices in life, take her down or join his family.  He had nothing else in that 20 years to grab onto and we cant say that NMH is a factor because that is where he does feel guilty.  He intentionally brought her into his scheme and he knew she was innocent.  Thats why regardless what anyone had done including protecting her knowing about her father, he took all the blame and the abuse.

@fragglerock  Thank you for sharing your personal experience.  I can relate to your comments and think your thoughts and insights help better frame KPJ's struggle with his trauma from childhood and the impact it has on his motivations, feelings and reactions.  For over 20 years, he has had to bottle everything up...suppress his instincts in order to achieve his revenge.  Allowing any feelings to "leak" out would have probably ended up in an uncontrollable wave of emotion.  Numbness was/is his best coping mechanism in this instance, trying to overcome his circumstances from victimhood to survivorhood.  

I haven't watched The Entertainer but will keep that drama in mind for a weekend binge- a-thon.  The thing about the Jangs and JMR to be specific is that they have NO REMORSE which makes it easy to understand why KPJ never allowed himself to lose his focus and think and feel anything outside of the walls he built for himself, because for all intents and purposes, KPJ is and has been in his own self imposed prison - he won't be free until he sees this through.

I hope that all is better with you...again thanks for sharing.  

[[Drama 2017-2018] Money Flower 돈 꽃]

11 minutes ago, imgreatgal said:

there were a few of it in that episode. When JMR said she will not go to prison because she doesn't want to wear those boring prison clothes, JEC said: 'you have to because you can't be naked in prison' hahaha i can't help laughing. 

 

i think it will be all 4. hahaha JBC goes on a rampage.  It has something to do with the lawsuit to nullify the inheritance that grandpa had bestowed in advance to JBC. JEC wants JMR to give up her shares of the company and leave. If the lawsuit is brought to court the public will find out that JBC isn't a Jang lineage which JMR wants to avoid at all cost. I believe the old witch will be stubborn and not give up her shares. This will leave JEC with no choice but to file the lawsuit. Well its kind of pathetic ending for JBC. 

@imgreatgal  I've been thinking a bit more on the loaded shotgun under OH's bed.  Do you remember in Ep 19 or 20 not sure which one, JBC invited KPJ to go shooting.  JBC couldn't hit any clays (skeet) while next to KPJ (who hit them all..) Then as KPJ was leaving JBC pointed the rifle at his back....a perfect illustration of JBC - cowards shoot people in the back.  However, it could be foreshadowing...who knows but it's fun to speculate.

 

Maybe JBC ends up living wth his mistress and son away from everything that goes down.  

[[Drama 2017-2018] Money Flower 돈 꽃]

1 hour ago, sava2sava said:

  The thing what gets me about JBC is that he thinks KPJ used him and made him a victim of the circumstances when it's his mom that has brought this upon him..  Even after finding out he's not of that family bloodline one would think to try and come up with a alternate plan if he is kick out.. But no instead like you said he wants to blame everyone but the one person he should be blaming.. (just like a spoiled child going off on the deep end if mommy says no) He will never see all that's happen to him is of his on making with the help of mommy dearest.. What bothers me the most is that he thinks KPJ really responsible for his divorce when it's his mom and G/pa started the mess from the beginning.. All KPJ did was urge her to leave as he knew things would get ugly in the household and she could have end up getting killed.. Because from the very beginning JBC couldn't protect himself now how would he protect her.. JMR planned to kill her one way or another.. She would have waited to JBC took his guard down when it came to NMH but she would have got the job done and eventually he would move on and she knew this..  Even of it took her harming herself as her weapon to make him do as she likes, Like she always done..

 

G/pa and JMR in the past two episodes has tried every way to hurt KPJ with hurtful words bit I loved how he never showed them one ounce of iota to what was coming from there mouths instead he gives it back to them ten folds..  I say yes to KPJ keeps serving her and G/pa they best dishes served cold..

 

I expect uncle to send Yc for a meeting with his eldest nephew trying to play the carrying uncle role..

For me KPJ came back in the form of his dad to seek revenge on them all, The brother and father for not protecting his children and t JMR for being the cold hearted witch that she is  

@sava2sava  I agree with your thoughts Chingu!  At the start of the series KPJ and JBC met when JBC rear ended the car KPJ was in and what? he was wasted...and not wanting to call to get money for repairs bc he didn't want to look like a "loser" (good luck with that) to his cousin JYC.  Before KPJ was even in his life, JBC was pathetic.  KPJ went to prison for him and then we see him beating up a group of teens that where trying to clean JBC's clock...proof others found him a pain....as an adult, JBC showed affection for his "dog" but not love.  The dog did what he wanted, attacked those that made him feel bad, sad etc. Made him superior to his cousin and kept his mom feeling secure/happy.  

I remember the scene when KPJ was walking out handcuffed and JMR and JBC are watching it on TV and he said something along the lines of..."It kind of makes me feel a little bit sad" and JMR was "Why, that's what he's there for..."  At some point JBC started to believe his own press....that he was capable and smart....when KPJ was not around...how many years of training did he receive to achieve it.  Even when romancing NHM at first the phrases he repeated that won her over where the words spoken by KPJ until later he used his own brand of seduction (yuck)  What JBC failed to realize is that friendship and love is not all "taking" but it is mostly "giving" and the only thing he really gave was NHM a divorce...with pathetic strings attached.  

Blaming everyone else for his failures and mistakes is JMR all over again. 

 

[[Drama 2017-2018] Money Flower 돈 꽃]

1 hour ago, bebebisous33 said:

It is because some expressions are recognized as inappropriate and changed into Richard Simmons.

Thanks for the clarification.  Poor Richard Simmons...LOL!!  

[[Drama 2017-2018] Money Flower 돈 꽃]

4 minutes ago, sava2sava said:

@fragglerock  The most time KPJ will do is 6 months.. Granted KPJ came up with the plans but it's the other parties that decided to do it..

For the sake of helping one another..  If her dad had succeeded in his plans for the presidency position even after knowing she was sold by her dad she would still be married to JBC so I find what she's doing is ridiculous in some ways.. I thnk she just wants to get back at KPJ for not revealing himself to her early on since she loved him all that time even after being married to JBC she still long for him which leaves me to believe she wasn't happy in NY as some thinks they were..

   

KPJ had no say so in how the slush fund should be directed and beside it was KPJ who gave his own money to congressman NA. Which there is no law that said he couldn't donate to a presidential election.. This is apart of most viewers seems to be forgetting.. Congressman NA money didn't come from Cheong A it came from KPJ pocket because Uncle JSM stole the money that was supposed to be handed to Congressman NA..  This is something else KPJ will slap in G/pa face if the time comes Uncle and he is going to have to pay the price for..

 

This is the reason ti my thinking KPJ telling NMH to do what she likes and that's to expose it all because he has not did anything wrong that she thinks he has..

Interesting, I never thought about her wanting to get back at KPJ...might be...I thought in my mind that her rationale for exposing the corruption was to:

1) Take down the Jang Clan

2) Help clear some of the scandal from her father - remember that at the start of her crusade she still thought her father was dead.

3) And to be the person/candidate her father was before the corruption.  The man that she looked up to...She is an idealist and wanted to step forward in her fathers shoes and continue his legacy pre-presidential bid.

 

Personally, she doesn't seem like a good politician to me.  She really should take her money from the divorce and become a full time environmentalist/conservationist.  She doesn't have the killer instinct and all she has accomplished on her pursuit for justice has been handed to her by KPJ.  Politics will not make her happy...she should do what makes her happy at this point.

[[Drama 2017-2018] Money Flower 돈 꽃]

31 minutes ago, fragglerock said:

@kismet22  Well a debt in part anyhow......LOL  Don't forget she got into the whole marriage situation because of him to start with.  Lil richard simmons!!  Clever plan i must admit.  But i do agree.  Am curious how the last 2 episodes will pan out.  Hopefully no big curve balls or anyone dramatically hurt.

 

BTW on your issue of KPJ could of found another way to carry out the revenge, if he had of married her or been part of the congressmans family he could not directly impact JMR which was his goal.  The best place for revenge as they say is right under your nose where you least expect it to be.  He was the company dog, sent on errands and disregarded unless they needed him, now like with any pet you neglect them and they will come back to bite you one.  KPJ needed to directly impact the events taking place, and as an attorney he was needed legally, so it would of been the only way to carry all that out and make it work.

@fragglerock  "oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive.." Sir Walter Scott had it right!  I agree with your comments.

1) I was somewhat disgusted with KPJ at the start for setting up the marriage and letting it happen, however, I give him some credit now for making strides to somewhat balance the scales of justice on NMH behalf.  Like others have said well in the thread, he did his best to have NMH and JBC fall in love (which they did and JBC screwed it up) yet, he has helped her - saved her father, gave her information, told her the truth about her marriage and been fairly open after the line was crossed.  He has never moved against her and not lied (to my knowledge and let's not get into the whole omission being a lie bc that has legs) so...I'm hoping that in some ways and as always in the ways of the "great drama god's" he has paid a healthy price for atonement in the debt owed to NMH

 

2) Of course, you are right, his target was JMR and being right under her nose for the coup de gras was what he envisioned as the way he wanted to serve her his revenge - COLD - with a glass of chianti and some fava beans.   However, there still has to be a part within our viewing experience that shouted!! enough already!!! off with their head!! Justice! Consequences!!  I don't know about you, but there were times I wanted to snatch JMR bald!  And as for me, I would not have been able to hold it in as long as he did.  I would have been satisfied to blurt things out sooner than wait until he did.  Even his friend YJoo was ready to launch a tsunami of pain at the Jang's and had to be held back by KPJ.  Just my thoughts....anyway....