[[Drama 2020] It's Okay not to be Okay, 사이코지만 괜찮아]

I really love this show because the supposed "normal" people are actually portrayed in such way that you can't help questioning the definition of normality. Here,  their normality is actually a flaw, it was as if in fact they were not right in their mind:

- the father who grabbed MST's hair although the man had done nothing as giving some explanations about the dinosaur.

- The politician who abused his son for not being so smart like the others and neglected him because of that

The lies, the selfishness, the prejudices and the hypocrisy are what define these so called normal persons. They might be mentally normal but they have no heart in reality. 

And I suspect that Juri is quite similar to them. Behind her smiles and gentleness, I sense her selfishness and arrogance. She condemns MY for neglecting her father since she is not acting as expected as a guardian. Yuri but doesn't want to understand why MY is so distant from her father. All of them lack empathy which is not true for MY.

She is definitely right about the fairy tales... these stories teach lessons about the world and it is not about a happy ending. The Ugly duckling reveals the intolerance for people who are different, criticizes the stigmatization and the bullying as such. The ending of this story is that despite the harshness of life, the outcast can turn into a good and beautiful person due to his persistence. I also think that MY's decision was right for the politician's son as his speech liberated him from his father's shadow where he could reveal his father's true colors. On the other hand, MY's recklessness will have consequences for MKT as he was the one responsible. The injustice MKT suffers could cause an outburst... because so far, MKT had never expressed his frustration and anger in front of others, except MY. 

[[Drama 2020] It's Okay not to be Okay, 사이코지만 괜찮아]

I have been wondering if the incident with the butterfly, where GMY ripped it in front of MKT is not related to Juri. It is definitely possible that Juri had already noticed MKT following GMY. Remember that GMY mentioned that she knew Juri's mother and it gave me the impression that GMY was close to Juri and her mother before. What if Juri gave GMY a bad advice intentionally so that MKT would leave GMY's side?

 

As for the red shoes, I see it in a positive way, just like GMY sees the positive aspects in the witch. The red shoes gave her strength, the "supernatural" power to move closer to MKT, to be able to return to her hometown and even to go to the hospital where her father has been living. She knew that she couldn't do it on her own, so the power from the red shoes gave her the energy and courage to affront her fears and put her resent aside.

[[Drama 2020] It's Okay not to be Okay, 사이코지만 괜찮아]

A terrific first episode! Yes, the introduction is definitely referring to Tim Burton's style. We can definitely feel a really tragic past in Moon Young's life. The father tried to kill her as he couldn't take the burden any longer. I also believe that the mother played a bigger part in MY's trauma. The fact that in the intro the mother called the little girl "a monster" reveals that the mother rejected her own daughter.

[[Drama 2020] The King: Eternal Monarch, 더 킹: 영원의 군주]

On 6/12/2020 at 9:29 PM, ms_inquiry said:

 

I'm incredibly thankful and happy that we got a happy ending  and I appreciated the comedy a lot

 

I suspect though that the drama ran out of time to tell its story, I think starting from around ep 14 especially. There are some story beats and clues that I believe were given different and much shorter "conclusions" than what the writer had set up from the beginning. 

 

Loved JY choosing to save young LG. Maybe that whole segment and LG finally managing to kill LL was shortened and/or re-written so they could manage time-wise. Pretty sure there was at some point a draft where JY dies saving young LG in front of adult LG. I'm very happy he's alive though haha.

 

So in that way I did find some things a bit unsatisfying as well. Wish JTE's character, backstory and her line about bravery had been explored more. Also LG could have been explored more. Him losing the scar in the end thanks to his friends and allies was an amazing story beat. It would have had an even bigger impact if he had struggled with it a bit more - with the trauma and/or with just simply losing his immediate family. It was still great though and I did like that they did explore it.

 

Being a liberal arts graduate when theorizing I have written some theories, most of which I have shared here. I have been right at times but also wrong quite often . I'm sure I'm wrong about plenty but if the drama had had more time I believe that for example:

 

- LL was at some point going to either try to take over or simply terrorize KOC using fear and propaganda. This since he wanted LG to reveal that he was alive in ep 11. LL could have tried to spin his "return" to KOC as him being literally back from the dead. Later on I thought for a second that he would do an even better version of this by "returning" with the dead "Queen" as well. Basically trying to scare people in some way into submission or make them distrust their government and/or LG.

 

- I suspect that the PM's alliance with LL was also going to be more elaborate. Quite a lot of time was spent establishing her ability to influence the public narrative and taking opponents down in the press. I also thought she would end up choosing to do the right thing for a while, but I like @bebebisous33 analysis about her character and why it would make sense of her to side with LL better. 

 

- Luna probably had a more elaborate backstory as well. @bebebisous33 I remember you stating at some point quite early that you think the drama had changed her. Would love to hear more of what you think she was going to do in the latter part of the drama as well  

 

- Maybe at some point there might have been a draft where KSJ, the most skilled at shooting, was going to save young LG and leave the ID-card. It could just have been a red herring though (his shooting skills). I did really like the part where he had his confrontation with LL and then him siding with LG. He was built up as a pretty tragic character and his love for JTE was such a major part of it. His arc was still very touching here though. His and JTE scenes and lines at the end of episode 15/16 were breathtaking and heartbreaking (the music in that scene as well!)

 

I'm worried now after having written all this it will seem like I'm complaining or saying the drama wasn't good. I think it was actually amazing. I just like analyzing stories and I feel a little bit bad for those involved since I am pretty sure that things had to be shortened and re-written. So grateful about the happy ending and the best parts of this drama were honestly brilliant.

 

Apologies for yet another really long post! 

Yes, I sense that Luna's part in this story was somehow changed. In fact, she didn't contribute much to the story in that she helped LG to find JTE. But once she went to ROK, she was able to live as JTE for a while. I liked the ending, but I feel that they rushed some aspects:

- The Prime Minister and LR... it wasn't clearly explained, how he helped her. Because he did state that he supported her to become Queen aso.

- SJ's role must have been changed... he was just a tragic figure, yet he didn't really help LG in the long run. I wished, his life in ROK would have had more meaning.

But it was a very good drama.

[[Drama 2020] The King: Eternal Monarch, 더 킹: 영원의 군주]

38 minutes ago, Heilo said:

 

She dosen't strike me as someone whos much of a helper

Well, she helps him because through her, Lee Gon is guided to the portal and meets JEong Tae Eul. She contributed to their meeting. That's why Lee Gon left the pass in the pocket. He used her because he knew the events from the past.

While Luna represents the past, Jeong Tae Eul the present and Lee Rim the future (he is too obsessed with the idea of obtaining the flute), Lee Gon embodies all of them: the past, the present and the future. All this was shown in the reflection of the mirror.

He saw his past self, he saw himself as the man wearing the jacket (present) and he saw the future (he would travel to the past in order to save himself) 

That's why he is called the eternal monarch as he embodies Time.

[[Drama 2020] The King: Eternal Monarch, 더 킹: 영원의 군주]

The episode confirmed my observations from the earlier episodes:

- Lee Rim has always been too focused on the future hence he neglected the past and his own flaws.

- He looks down on children. He never thought that a child could stop him that's why the future Lee Rim never realized that his own self from the past would never believe him. 

- Jeong Tae Eul symbolizes the present. Here, she gets new memories so that her present and future are affected. When she says that they should skip many parts, it underlines how much she values the present. 

Lee Gon must have felt lonely trapped in a different time from his lover. So their time spent together in the next episode is very short.

So Luna belongs to Lee Gon's past, she was his indirect helper. Somehow I was right that she would help him but totally wrong because she is still an enemy of Lee Gon and Jeong Tae Eul. She is so obsessed with her past and her own suffering.

It is interesting to see that the ex-Prime Minister has become even more ambitious, she wants the flute for herself. I have the impression that she will contribute to Lee Rim's demise. 

We still shouldn't forget that the drama started with February 2020... so I have the impression that Lee Gon will try to find a way to the past... Remember the end of the episode 10. He was Lee Gon from the future.

[[Drama 2020] The King: Eternal Monarch, 더 킹: 영원의 군주]

7 hours ago, mrsj3n said:

 

 

 

In my defence, I was torn between JY or SJ.

 

JY broke my heart for being a wet blanket.

 

So I went on a limp and voted for the combination of SJ and LG.

 

 

 

 

 

@vangsweetie637 I think got to ask the expert.

Paging @bebebisous33 Do you know how can we sticky a post?

 

No, I have no idea. Sorry to be no help.

I am really eager to watch the episode with subtitles.

[[Drama 2020] The King: Eternal Monarch, 더 킹: 영원의 군주]

Since this story is inspired by Harry Potter, I have been wondering if Lee Gon will survive the poisoning because he had Lee Rim's blood in his body and the poison killed the part belonging to Lee Rim. Remember that Harry Potter had to die so that the last part of Voldemort's soul would be destroyed.

@vangsweetie637 @ktcjdrama @mrsj3n @YongZura⁷ @Guyangi_Dalpeongi @madmad min

[[Drama 2020] The King: Eternal Monarch, 더 킹: 영원의 군주]

@vangsweetie637 Sorry I don't know how. But you can ask @Lmangla as this moderator is the one who organizes the events on this forum.

Put me on the list of obsessive shipper. Thanks!

[[Drama 2020] The King: Eternal Monarch, 더 킹: 영원의 군주]

18 minutes ago, Dramafreak said:

 

Now I am confused. So you mean the ending as in episode 13 ending where LR looks at the red exhibition poster (same as one that JTE saw during her visit)? That poster has featured often in the series to signify and help the viewers identify that they were in Corea.

 

Please explain.

 

Btw I liked the time and characters analogy. While watching I did wonder why the sandwatch or whatever that is called was there and shot so prominently but it being an personification of Time... makes sense.

Well, yes... the thing is that how would Lee Rim come suddenly to this idea that Lee Gon was the mysterious savior? He looks at the exhibition and realizes it. I don't have the impression that it was the same portrayed in the beginning because Lee Rim also visited KOC before and saw it. He couldn't be connected to Luna as Lee Gon was in ROK. Why would he come to this all of the sudden? Furthermore it was already insinuated that Lee Rim knew about time travel. But okay, I might be wrong... from my point of view, Lee Rim has always been too focused on the future as his ultimate goal was to retrieve the flute and to become the future ruler of both worlds. 

[[Drama 2020] The King: Eternal Monarch, 더 킹: 영원의 군주]

44 minutes ago, Dramafreak said:

please explain this?

You also said that LR travelled to the future... why do you think so?

Because of the ending, when Lee Rim was walking. If you look in the background, there is an exhibition about Relics and Lee Gon's image is in the background. Relics allude to the past.

[[Drama 2020] The King: Eternal Monarch, 더 킹: 영원의 군주]

24 minutes ago, mrsj3n said:

 

KGE studied english?

But why on earth does she not understand what Jung Eun Chae was saying when she has to summarize TKEM to the viewers?

I remembered Lee Min Ho asked her what did JEC say and she said she dont know?

 

 

Why are you giving yourself such a headache?

 

@bebebisous33 Luna as the 2nd saviour? 

I'm having difficulty picturing that.

 

 

 

Yes, we have the impression that if they are two, they looked like men... but we didn't see why the roof exploded so suddenly. That's why I have the impression that the young Lee Gon didn't see everything like the viewers. There could be a twist.

 

2 minutes ago, 1ouise said:

 

 

@bebebisous33

I don't believe Luna is the second savior, but I do think that she could be a helper.

I think the "rabbit with the clock" is KGE, so I think it is either Luna or TE dressed as Luna.

I get the feeling that the rabbit is a time traveler from the future.

(It keeps disappearing and you hear the sound of gears during those scenes.) 

So, it could be Luna (with time-traveling LG's help) guiding LG to the portal.

 

 

That's what I meant... she will help him.

[[Drama 2020] The King: Eternal Monarch, 더 킹: 영원의 군주]

Time: the invisible main character in The King: Eternal Monarch

 

In one of my former analyses, I compared Alice in Wonderland with this k-drama. In the fairy tale written by Lewis Carroll, the Mad Hatter considered time as a person therefore Time was written in capital letters:

“If you knew Time as well as I do, said the Hatter, you wouldn’t talk about wasting it. It’s him. “[…] I daresay you never even spoke to Time”.

Furthermore, time played a huge significance in this story as it was about growth and the passage from childhood to adulthood. Alice’s journey in Wonderland represents her quest for her own identity. And this k-drama is not different: We see Lee Gon, the protagonist changing. From a mathematician and scientist, he has become a true believer of the 4 Tiger Sword and the Manpasijeok. And as such, time is an important factor for growth and making new experiences.

Before analyzing the k-drama under this aspect, we need to remember what time is. Time is composed by past, present and future. And all along these three aspects are always present and relevant for the story and its evolution.

 

But now let’s go back to the start of The King: Eternal Monarch. Right in the beginning, time is present. We hear our antagonist Lee Rim telling the story dated in 632, then when he is asked, why he doesn’t look like his age (71), he mentions the year 1994, where everything all started. All this underlines the importance of the past. But time doesn’t just exist through the testimony and the reference of the Chronicles of the Three Kingdoms. In the interrogation room, the detectives Kang Sin Jae and Jeong Tae Eul put the records of Lee Rim.

episode 1

The records about Lee Rim symbolize time. He is supposed to have died, just like he is supposed to be very old. As you can see, the “person” Time never appears as such but is existent in the interrogation room. The past and the present are the elements that are alluding to the supernatural: the story about the mysterious flute, the strange appearance of Lee Rim who doesn’t age.

Then when Lee Gon is saved by the mysterious savior, he catches the ID from the future with the date: 11.11.2019. During the coup d’etat, we have a mixture of past and future. Now (episode 13), it has been confirmed that Lee Gon traveled back to the past (1994) and saved himself from Lee Rim. So here time is embodied by the ID and the mysterious savior. It was as if time could be seen or touched through the objects or the persons. The best example is when Lee Gon and Lee Rim observe that Time stops. Because nothing moves except the two main characters, the latter can sense the lack of time. Nature stands still: the snow flakes or water don’t fall anymore.

The director sometimes tried to even personify Time in different shot, when the persons were not talking about the present, the past or the future. I chose two different takings:

Here, we have the impression due to the lights on the right side that this is not a sequence but a photo. However, when Lee Gon and Jeong Tae Eul hug each other, the viewer can observe their movements, while the lights on the sight are so fuzzy and stretched. It was, as if time had stopped and nature stood still. This taking reflected the inner feelings of our two protagonists: they enjoyed the moment, the present.

Here, Time is also present in the form of the hourglass. Pay attention to its size: it is even bigger than Lee Gon and Jo Young. Through this taking, the director illustrates how powerful time is and it is a main character invisible to the people standing next to it.

Spoiler

While Lee Gon was looking at the CCTV in order to watch his loved one who was so far away from him, he suddenly discovered this CCTV from the future. The child with the yo-yo lets him know where Jeong Tae Eul will be on the birthday. This scene is important as it shakes the king to the core. There is no science that can explain this. On the other hand, it shows him that Jeong Tae Eul is alive and well which can comfort him. Here, it was as if the child with the yo-yo already knows the end of the story, just like with the book about King Arthur. This deity can move from one world to the other, it can also travel to the future which seems to indicate that he can travel to the past as well. The child with the yo-yo has also a strong connection to time as he was the one who ensured that Jeong Tae Eul would get a new ID so that the young Lee Gon would be able to receive it. Then he was the one who told Luna that he believed in the existence of god which let her say that she would be punished. So is he a personification of time? I am more inclined to believe that he embodies fate which is related to time. His main duty is to observe that the balance is well maintained. Anyway, the child with the yo-yo uses time (and good timing) so that everything predetermined will happen. Since the flute makes it possible to travel in time, then the balance has been disrupted as we know that Lee Rim travels to the future. He neglected the past as he saw no real meaning in it. The reason is simple: since he is obsessed to become king, his focus was on the future.

Another observation is the strong connection between Jeong Tae Eul and Time. Remember that she is a person who learns through experience and as such, she needs time to acquire her knowledge. We can see this strong link between these two in different occasions. When she waits for Lee Gon in the episode 6, the separation made her realize her longing for Lee Gon. Time was the reason why she realized how much she missed the king. Then in the episode 7, when she is about to confess her love to Lee Gon, her thoughts revolves around the past (“fate”) and the future (“sad premonition”) but this doesn’t stop to declare her love. She wants to enjoy the present to the maximum. This elucidates why Jeong Tae Eul seems so obsessed with the present. She doesn’t want to project herself with Lee Gon in the future as she has a sad premonition. She keeps saying to Lee Gon: Let’s enjoy the moment. Hence she doesn’t answer to his proposal. Strangely, Jeong Tae Eul meets Lee Gon from the future which somehow confirms her sad premonition, yet she doesn’t reveal her strange meeting to the present Lee Gon. In other words, Jeong Tae Eul could be perceived as the personification of the present.

Since Jeong Tae Eul is associated to the present, then which person represents the future? In my opinion, this part is reserved to Lee Gon. The latter appeared in front of Jeong Tae Eul in the episode 10, when he came from the future. But this perception is also confirmed in the episode 13, when Lee Gon looks at his reflection in the mirror.

Spoiler

 

Here, Lee Gon realizes that he is wearing the same clothes than the mysterious savior in 1994. He gets aware that he saved himself in the past. In the mirror, he sees his own past but also his future as the time travel has not occurred yet. Let us not forget that Lee Gon keeps projecting himself in the future with his girlfriend. He proposes to Jeong Tae Eul, he keeps asking her to come to Kingdom of Corea which annoys our female lead as she is someone who is focused on the present. So the mirror embodies Time as it reflects past and future together.

Since we have described Jeong Tae Eul and Lee Gon as a personification of Time (present, future), we have to wonder which person embodies the past. In my opinion, this is Luna. That’s why she is also seen in the mirror. She represents the past. She has a tragic past (abandoned with no identity) but she has no future, as she is about to die. That’s the reason why she can’t enjoy the present as well. Many have speculated that there were two saviors during the coup d’etat. I have the feeling that Luna could be the second savior if there is a second helper. Why?

First, like I mentioned above, the mirror reflect the past and the future. So when he travels back in the past, he could be accompanied by Luna, like in the mirror. Let us not forget that on Jeong Tae Eul’s cellphone there is the inscription: Back to the future and Luna is now in the possession of this precise cellphone. Since the cellphone is in her hands, she could travel back to the past as well. Luna wished, she had grown up differently, so maybe Lee Gon help her to change her fate so that when her future is changed so that she can die in peace, as her time is limited. 

All along, we have the impression that the fight between Lee Rim and Lee Gon is a fight against time. It seems that Lee Rim traveled to the future, while Lee Gon will focus on traveling back to the past. Since Lee Rim knows the future, he thinks that he’ll win as he is able to influence the events in the present so that the future is changed in his favor. That’s why he targets specific people, since he knows what they will do in the future. By switching the people from Republic of Korea to Kingdom of Corea, he is able to have the important people siding with him. But changing the past can change the present and as such the future so that all Lee Rim’s efforts become vain.

As conclusion, time is always palpable, visualized or personified in this k-drama. It was as if people could feel time, either through an object or a person.

Feel free to comment!

@vangsweetie637 @imels @syntyche @YongZura⁷ @ktcjdrama @mrsj3n @2handsintertwined @Guyangi_Dalpeongi @Dramafreak @ms_inquiry @Edgar Pordwed @madmad min

[[Drama 2020] The King: Eternal Monarch, 더 킹: 영원의 군주]

33 minutes ago, Orientalfan said:

The preview scene of Lee Rim meeting Lee Rim of the past reflects that Lee Rim also can travel to the past.

Thanks for the correction. Nonetheless this means that Lee Rim never paid attention to the past but only traveled to the future, until he realized that Lee Gon from the future traveled in the past to save himself.

[[Drama 2020] The King: Eternal Monarch, 더 킹: 영원의 군주]

@vangsweetie637@2handsintertwined@imels @Dramafreak @ms_inquiry @YongZura⁷ @ktcjdrama @mrsj3n @Guyangi_Dalpeongi @Edgar Pordwed @madmad min @syntyche

Remember my analysis about the significance of the mirrors. In this scene, the mirror has an important purpose. It makes Lee Gon realize that he traveled in the past and saved himself. He had already imagined that a time travel was possible. In the same episode, he had told his girlfriend: "If there's a time axis in there as well as a space axis, then it'll be possible". By looking at the mirror, he discovered his future self acting in the past. He only got aware of it, the moment he identified the woman as Luna and saw his own reflection in the mirror. That's when he realizes that he is wearing the same clothes than the mysterious savior. It was as if the mirror allowed him to see his own past but at the same time his own future. At some point, he will travel to the past.

Then next to him, there is Luna, his enemy but since she looks like Jeong Tae Eul, we have to wonder if JTE will stand by his side, when he travels back in the past. Let us not forget that she is the one who had the cellphone with the inscription: Back to the future. On the other hand, we shouldn't forget that Luna was the one who stole JTE's cellphone. Since the cellphone is in her hands, she could travel back to the past as well. Luna wished, she had grown up differently, so maybe Lee Gon help her to change her fate so that when she travels back to the future, she can die in peace, as her time is limited. 

 

The second remark about the scars on the traitors. It looks like the scars reflect the way their doppelgangers were killed. And this leads me to the next observation: Lee Gon is suffering because his pain in the shoulder is linked to the death of Lee Rim's doppelganger. The latter had his neck broken that's why the scar is visible on his from the neck to his cheek. As you know, the nerve on the shoulder goes through the neck. My assumption is that Lee Rim's blood came in contact with Lee Gon's blood so that the latter was somehow contaminated. Notice that Lee Rim doesn't suffer that much compared to the others. Lee Gon is somehow sharing Lee Rim's pain and sin.

 

Since the flute was cut in half, we have to assume that Lee Rim is able to travel in the future, while the other can go back to the past. 

[[Drama 2020] The King: Eternal Monarch, 더 킹: 영원의 군주]

6 minutes ago, AgentQuake said:

Okay so you know when Voldemort killed Lily, and Harry was protected by her blood magic until GOF when Voldemort was resurrected with Harry’s blood?

 

They focused a couple times now about the blood when bb LG sliced LR’s hand, and the blood from his neck.  Could there be something going on there with their blood?  LR still had LG’s blood on him when he killed Ji Hun, and the flute being made out of wood probably has their blood both mixed.  The scars also look like it’s burning through their arteries?  
 

I’m a super squeamish person so this post was super hard to write omg 

I agree that this is related to the coup d'etat, where LR's blood and Lee Gon's blood came in contact to each other. So we have two possibilities:

- either LG's blood was on LR's hands, when he killed JH

- or LG came in contact with LR's blood, when the one was strangling him with the flute so that when the antagonist killed his doppelganger, the "curse" was passed on LG as he had been contaminated by LR's blood. And this would explain why LR is not suffering so much like the others as the pain is shared by LG.

[[Drama 2020] The King: Eternal Monarch, 더 킹: 영원의 군주]

1 hour ago, ponderings said:

I thought I was going to drop this drama after episode 4 because the humor didn't hit off like the humor in Goblin and Mr. Sunshine. I believe the editing of the scenes don't do justice to the humor. What brought me more humor was scrolling through gifs and meme in this thread.  And I love to read @bebebisous33 analysis and other people's theories. (I haven't read every single post as this thread moves really quickly.) 

 

I like to build off of bebebisous33's observations of TE's personality in her analysis, The Earth is Flat: Jeong Tae Eul's Relationship to Sciences and Faith

 

I will speculate what Myer-Briggs Type Indicator (MBTI) is for Jung Tae Eul and Lee Gon. Four traits determine your MBTI:

• Introvert(I)/Extrovert(E) 
• Sensing(S)/Intuitive(N) 
• Thinking(T)/Feeling(F)
• Perceptive(P)/Judging(J)

If you want to learn more about MBTI, you can visit 16Personalities and/or read Gifts Differing by Isabel Briggs Myers with Peter B. Myers. 

 

As mentioned above, TE is sensitive. On the other hand, Lee Gon is intuitive; he has a sense of what feels right and wrong to him. He knows what feels right for his heart, which is different and subjective for each individual. Also as a king, he has to make decisions for the public and feels what's right for the public. For example, he holds off catching Lee Lim on the day of New Year's because he feels that it is wrong to harm the innocent citizens. 

 

Tae Eul // Lee Gon

_ S _ _ // _ N _ _ 

 

The next trait is thinking vs. feeling. From an early age, LG would spend days in his study room thinking in the language of math and solving math problems. He uses the language of math; he thinks in numbers to express himself (e.g., his meaning of 0 and 1). When he crossed to TE's world, he immediately thinks where he is and understands that it is a parallel universe. He tries to explain his theory to TE and he even goes to the library to read about the history of TE's world. Therefore, LG is a thinker.

 

TE is also a thinker. When she first sees LG, she thinks that he is crazy and immediately decides to arrest him. Her job involves her to think, investigate and conclude her case with substantial evidence.

 

Tae Eul // Lee Gon

_ S T _ // _ N T _ 

 

The third trait is perceiving vs. judging. It's kind of tricky. I thought Lee Gon would have a judging personality because of his job as a king. But the way he acts for a job is for the job. His personality trait is perceptive. When he crossed over to TE's world, he looks around him, the unknown parallel world. He wanders around and becomes well aware that this world is completely different from his. On the other hand, TE has the judging personality trait because she's always expressing what seems right/wrong for her. She thinks that LG's theory about the parallel universe is gibberish and believes that the world is flat. That becomes the fact for her. That is right for her, "The earth is flat", and LG's perspective of the parallel universe sends her judgment label to be wrong. In conclusion, TE is more judgmental than perceptive while LG is more perceptive than judgmental.

 

Tae Eul // Lee Gon

_ S T J // _ N T P

 

Lastly, TE is an extrovert because most of the time she thinks out loud. She has friends. She has her buddies who back her up especially Shin Jae to investigate the parallel world. LG is an introvert because he internalizes things and his circle is close knit. Yes, LG goes to large crowds as a king, but he prefers to be indoors with people he is comfortable with. Or he likes to be by himself (e.g., study room solving math problems or at the walkway thinking)

 

Tae Eul // Lee Gon

E S T J // I N T P

 

In broader terms TE is a judging extrovert and LG is a perceiving introvert. According to 16Personalities, TE is an executive and LG is a logician. When I first watched this drama, I was skeptical of TE's character in relation to her career. So I checked what ESTJ careers are. 

 

So generally ESTJs are clear and straightforward and they need stability and structure. That is why they gravitate towards institutions like law enforcement, military service, etc. Now I can see why TE is in the police enforcement. 

 

As for LG, it's spot on, too. 

He clearly has this drive to understand the parallel universe and figure it out. And he is definitely a natural mathematician with all those mathematic confessions. 

First, thanks for the compliment!!!

Honestly, I also really enjoyed reading your description about JTE and LG's personality. I agree with your observations. I would like to add one point, where we could see that JTE is more judgmental  than perceiving. Remember when Jangmi appeared for the first time. She assumed that he was the thug based on his appearance.

[[Drama 2020] The King: Eternal Monarch, 더 킹: 영원의 군주]

9 hours ago, mychoiyoung said:

 

Thank you for tagging me with your write up.  I immensely enjoyed reading your analysis but the line above caught my eye. I never got the sense that LG had stopped believing in gods.  Let me explain why

1. LG's parents are Catholic. Altho his Mom died early, he was still brought up by his Dad. This does not mean that LG is Catholic himself cos the drama has been silent on that. But I would expect that with such upbringing, he would be inclined to have at least exposure to a belief system other than math & science.
2. LG repeatedly regards that unfortunate night in 1994 & the life-long ordeal it gave him as his personal hell. Someone who references hell means he acknowledges the notion of heaven.
3. He admitted that the 1st thing he checked with ROK was the Church & found it to be the only landmark existing in both worlds in the exact same spot. If he has stopped believing, I don't think he would bother to check the Church out in ROK.
4. LG & LR are the anti-thesis of each other. Given that the story has been very explicit with LR not believing in God or any form of god (except for himself which is ironic), it is only logical that LG goes the other way.

What I most agree with what you have written is how both LG & TE are influencing each other to be open to what each believes in. LG is more cerebral of the two, He knows, therefore he believes. TE on the other hand is experienced-based. But by discovering each other in a fantastical or magical setting, we see that LG's scientific/mathematical principles do not invalidate TE's experienced-based dogmatism. And vice versa.

 

Their personal narratives speak to their innermost need for righteousness, justice, family & duty -- all in the realm of science & faith. That's why they luuurve each other

Well, what I meant is that after the coup d'etat, Lee Gon no longer believed in the prayer taught by his father, he no longer had faith in the sword as he had failed once. Let us not forget that his father was killed by the sword which was supposed to fight against the evil. Math and Physics became his new religion.  

 

@x2020@Emmy Nur'aenny Thanks a lot for the compliments. I really like writing such analyses, which shows how well written the story is. I have been thinking about the next topic but it will be somehow a little different: time.

[[Drama 2020] The King: Eternal Monarch, 더 킹: 영원의 군주]

2 hours ago, Dramafreak said:

That was interesting. Am still finishing it but the line above made me want to type my question first:

 

LG seems to believe in God but not magic is that what you mean? If no, then please explain.

 

thank you so much for sharing. I would have dropped this drama if not for how you and a few others interpret it. 

First, thanks for the compliment.  

 

Then let's go back to your question which was quite interesting because it made me realize something else too.

 

First of all, you have to put back the sentence into its context. When Lee Gon ignored her question about magic, it showed more or less that he didn't believe in magic. Back then, he was still in denial about god. Therefore he didn't believe neither in magic nor god.

 

Yet we have to wonder if Lee Gon really understood what JTE meant with magic. Let us not forget that there are two kind of magic.

1. Magic as illusion. An illusionist or magician uses tricks in order to surprise the viewers (he sometimes uses physical laws for his illusions).

2. Magic as a supernatural phenomenon which exists in fairy tales or stories like Harry Potter. In fairy tales, even god appears in the form of an old man etc.

JTE was referring to the second type of magic, while Lee Gon as a scientist had more the first type in his mind. Hence he is denying that there is magic as an illusion. He couldn't believe that all this was an illusion as he had already observed some laws in this strange world. Nevertheless, I sense that this ambiguity is there for a reason. While he might have thought about magic as illusion, in reality, it revealed that Lee Gon is not a believer in the supernatural.

  

[[Drama 2020] The King: Eternal Monarch, 더 킹: 영원의 군주]

Finally, I was able to finish this analysis. As you can see, it is quite long. So be prepared!  @Guyangi_Dalpeongi @vangsweetie637 @ms_inquiry @imels @ktcjdrama @mrsj3n @YongZura⁷ @Jafstar@Edgar Pordwed @syntyche @mychoiyoung @Dramafreak @2handsintertwined @madmad min 

The Earth is flat: Jeong Tae Eul's relationship to sciences and faith

 

Since the beginning, Jeong Tae Eul is associated to the following expression: the Earth is flat. This expression is quite important as it reveals Jeong Tae Eul’s personality and the way she perceives the world.

While our protagonist Lee Gon is introduced as a mathematician and scientist, hence he tries to understand the world through numbers and physical laws, our heroine appears to be the opposite, she is a liberal arts person. That’s the reason why Jo Young initially rejects Jeong Tae Eul as he says that JTE is not the science type hence she is not Lee Gon’s type. The fact that she is a liberal arts person is pointed out on many occasions. First, she reveals her lack of knowledge in math, when she tries to reject Lee Gon’s proposal.

She doesn’t realize her mistake, until Lee Gon points out the issue with the 360 degrees. Sure, she corrects herself, yet this incident underlines her disinterest for math and sciences in general. Another example for her lack of interest in these topics is when she doesn’t even try to understand Lee Gon’s explanation about the existence of a parallel world. She doesn’t really pay attention to his explanation about the Quantum mechanic theory, for her it sounds so complex to grasp that she even gives up before really listening. At some point, she gets upset as Lee Gon keeps trying to explain to her about the parallel world that she yells back that for her, the Earth is still flat.

Why does she mean with this? She knows that the Earth is round as it is a planet. In reality, she wants to say that she needs to experience that the earth is round in order to accept this knowledge. She can not understand things through numbers or theories, she needs to live it with all her senses. She is so different from Lee Gon who uses his brain in order to grasp the world, she uses her other senses in order to gain knowledge: the eyes, the hands, the heart… As conclusion, she belongs to the type of people who prefer learning through experience. learning through experience (if you want to read more about this)

This explains the choice of her career. She could have become a senior inspector much earlier, if she hadn’t opted to work as a detective. She chose to work on the field rather than behind a desk. This also explicates why Jeong Tae Eul is a Taekwondo fighter. This sport worships the following virtues: courtesy, integrity, perseverance, self-control and indomitable spirit. Through her body, our heroine learns these virtues hence she was there to help Kang Sin Jae, when the latter was bullied. First, out of courtesy, she asked the students to stop the bullying. She didn’t give up, when she got threatened (perseverance). Our female lead was able to control the students and showed no fear, when she started fighting against 5 students (self-control and indomitable spirit). That’s the reason why JTE embodies those qualities as well.

But since she met Lee Gon, she was confronted by a dilemma. On the one side, she wanted to believe in Lee Gon’s good nature, on the other side she didn’t believe in his words. Therefore, she remained by his side and even helped him to sell the diamonds or invited him to eat something. But at the same time, she wanted to reveal his lies. Strangely, she needed to use sciences for that. She asked for a fingerprint test, for a DNA test and finally for the help from the Korea Racing Authority because of the horse. Striking is that the sciences she neglected or rejected before proved that Lee Gon was not lying. With her own eyes and ears, she discovers that everything Lee Gon said is correct. While she didn’t believe in his words in the beginning, the sciences are the cause for her change of heart. Little by little, her resolve to see him as a weird or crazy person diminishes. She is more and more doubtful. She is not entirely convinced hence she wants to see Lee Gon’s world in order to believe him entirely. Once there, she wants to discover Monarchy of Corea hence she makes a trip to Seoul. Through her travel, she witnesses all the differences between her world and this world which leads her to admit the truth: the existence of a parallel world.

Just like Lee Gon who had stopped believing in gods, Jeong Tae Eul didn’t believe in the existence of the parallel world but at some point, she realized her mistake. Later, she even conceded to her colleague Kang Sin Jae that she believed Lee Gon and everything from him. She has become a true believer as she experienced the new world on her own.

Since she is a person who acquires knowledge through experience, she is really adamant to know if Lee Gon has been dating before meeting her. That’s why she focused on “first” things: first dating and first girlfriend, first snow, first cooking etc. That’s why Lee Gon asks her on the other hand if her earth has become rounder. She has gained experience and knowledge through what she has lived.

episode 6: Jeong Tae Eul says here “I was just waiting on Earth, which has become slightly rounder”. With these words, our detective confesses that her affection for Lee Gon has grown.

After parting from Lee Gon in the episode 6, she misses him more and more. Her longing lets her realize what Lee Gon means to her. At the end, she has no problem to show her affections to him therefore she hugs him. Step by step, she learns what love is. In another scene, the king complains that her Earth is still flat, which she admits (“It’s as flat as a thin pancake”). In that scene, she didn’t know how to console Lee Gon as she had never done it before. Since Lee Gon is her first love, she lacks experience but due to her love for him, she has changed. She is learning how to love and show love to someone.

While watching JTE all along, I couldn’t help myself thinking about the apostle John who is often called the doubter or sceptic. He refused to believe in the resurrection of Jesus Christ until he saw Christ’s wounds. The reason why I associated JTE with John is because of the painting of Caravaggio

Pay attention to John’s behavior. He is actually touching the wound and not really looking at it. Because of this experience, he believed even more in the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Actually, the other apostles had also a hard time to believe in this miracle, yet only John is considered a sceptic. In reality, John is a stronger believer as he is willing to die for Jesus Christ, he is also a team player (John 20,25; John 14,5), just like our heroine. The latter says that Lee Gon can rely on 5 people next to her. She is willing to do anything for him, she trusts him so much that she doesn’t even doubt that he won’t be able to rescue her. Unlike Lee Gon who rejected faith after that fateful night (coup d’etat of his uncle Lee Rim), JTE has always felt some affinity with the supernatural. She mentions the story about the moon rabbit which our king rejects by saying that the moon is covered with regolits. Then when she is in the passage between the two worlds, she wonders if there is magic there. Magic is a symbol for supernatural.

 

Spoiler

 

 

In this scene she sows seeds

Lee Gon answers her that space can not be explained scientifically as there is no wind, no air and no time, yet his explications don’t stop her to sow some seeds. She hopes that a plant could grow. Hope has a strong connection to faith. She is different as she feels that this passage shows wonders. Her closeness to legends and myths makes it easier for her to believe in magic. Her hopeful attitude contrasts much more to Lee Gon’s behavior. She starts believing much earlier than him… only in the episode 12, he wants to pray to god with JTE. We see JTE’s praying much earlier, when she talks to the plants.

Spoiler

 

episode 6: “I know you’re from a different world, but you should sprout. Your friends are in a much harsher place now”.

 

 

Notice that Lee Gon also starts talking to the plant after his return. Nonetheless, his talking to the plant doesn’t resemble a prayer as it is an order. He orders the plant to sprout in this world. However, both protagonists have to make the same leap of faith. For JTE, her love confession should be perceived as a leap of faith. She calls it fate.

 

Spoiler

 

 

episode 7

She believes in fate hence she says:

It took me a long time to realize this. When it’s fate, there is no coincidence. The fate is determined by the choices you made but there are times, when your fate chooses you. Things that are bound to happen are taking place even at this moment. I was struck with a sad premonition that this will be short-lived but I decided to love my fate that chose me.

Since she is a learner through experiences, she needs much more time to understand the world and her own feelings. This explains why Lee Gon wants to marry her as soon as possible and it took her much longer to realize her love for him.

The more she interacts with our hero, the more she is influenced by him. She has already accepted that she is his number 0. In the episode 6, she admits that there was no way she could know what was happening in his world. Because he was a person who was beyond one and zero. With these words, she unveils her longing. She feels the huge distance between herself and Lee Gon. She is no longer rejecting numbers and science at all. Furthermore she keeps asking Lee Gon to appear within 10 minutes.

Notice that she calls the existence of the parallel world “science fiction”. One could claim that she is avoiding the topic “existence of the parallel world” as she feels that KSJ will never come to believe it too. However, I feel that her choice of words reflects her own mentality. Since JTE listens to Lee Gon’s scientific explanations (the time difference e. g.) unlike in the beginning, she has somehow combined the two worlds (science and belief/faith) in one expression. Belief was not really rejected by her, it was just that she somehow neglected it, just like she neglected sciences. With Lee Gon by her side, she has now turned into someone who believes in “sciences” and in fate (faith) as well since she has experienced it.

Lee Gon was able to change her attitude towards math and science because he used many metaphors with mathematical expressions “Root” “0” and “1” so that JTE could visualize and feel it. “I guess, you know now what root you are standing in front of. It’s my hell and my history”.

He was not only trapped by his feelings for her (see his love confession) but also by his own situation as a king (his past and his family). He can not escape from his destiny, he is a king and as such he has his duties which he can not deny. Besides, he needs to catch his uncle too. Lee Gon understood very early how JTE thinks hence he changed his words towards her. Unlike our heroine, Lee Gon claims that he is a quick learner, while she needs experiences to acquire knowledge.

But the results are the same: both protagonists have changed and become both true believers. They no longer rejects science or faith. They have accepted that both can complement each other, just like Blaise Pascal wanted.

 

Let me know what you think. Feel free to comment.

[[Drama 2020] The King: Eternal Monarch, 더 킹: 영원의 군주]

5 minutes ago, Alice Wonderland said:

I read that it's not all leukemia can get a donor. Bone marrow transplantation may be the effective way to cure it. Then who can donor this, either it's JTE's dad or JTE herself. But how does Luna get it? First dad will be surprised if he knows she's not her daughter or thinks her as TE and has leukemia. 

 

In kdrama world like getting a donor will solve their health problem easily. Lol. In reality to find a match to your blood type even in your family sometimes is not easy. We need to go to blood bank donor or get other people with the same blood type. 

 

But as how we call it kdrama miracle, once the writer set the fate for the characters to keep living then everything is possible. 

 

And I hope Luna will get a chance for healthy life so she can at least sees things better than before, that her life isn't completely messed up. 

Yes, you are right. In reality, it is much more complicated.

Anyway, with JTE's father, Luna could have access to a bone narrow transplantation as in MOC, she has no support there. 

Although she has been misled by Lee Rim's lies (JTE has everything and she has her parents), Luna was different from the others as she doesn't really rely on Lee Rim. Even the doppelganger of his right-hand man trusted Lee Rim, while he knew that Lee Rim was dangerous and shouldn't be trusted.  

[[Drama 2020] The King: Eternal Monarch, 더 킹: 영원의 군주]

@ms_inquiry About the time travel: Lee Gon has an advantage: he studied the history of ROK in order to notice the differences from the history of Corea. He said that the change started with the invasion of Qing invasion in the 17th Century. Prince Sohyeon died in reality, while in MOC he became the king Yeongjong. Lee Gon is a descendant of this king. I am not sure but it could play a huge role.

We have the possibility that Lee Gon travels much further in the past. If prince Sohyeon died, then Lee Rim and Lee Gon would never be able to become royalty in the first place. Then Lee Rim would never be able to claim for the throne. Notice that this kingdom has a huge problem: the succession. Let us not forget the quarrel: Lee Rim is just the son of a concubine, then prince Buyeong and his son who wants to become Lee Gon's successor. Lee Gon has no heir... and they are all fighting for the throne.

We have to wonder how the parallel worlds were created... was it so from the start or did it happen because Prince Sohyeon used the flute and changed the destiny of his country?

 

I am still convinced that JTE and Luna have been switched. Imagine, she could get an organ transplant from her father, if she has leukemia. 

[[Drama 2020] The King: Eternal Monarch, 더 킹: 영원의 군주]

@lyrically aesthetic That JTE and Luna were switched in the first place, that was my theory. The child with the yo-yo did it. The latter used the CCTV from 2022 to give Lee Gon a clue... just like he tried to stop Lee Rim by giving him a clue with the book. He is always giving hints about the future...

[[Drama 2020] The King: Eternal Monarch, 더 킹: 영원의 군주]

@ms_inquiry @Guyangi_Dalpeongi @YongZura⁷ @vangsweetie637 @syntyche@imels@mrsj3n @ktcjdrama @Dramafreak @Edgar Pordwed @madmad min

About JTE: in my opinion, the cause of the separation will be that JTE can not be accepted as Queen because the Prime Minister will use Luna's identity in order to turn JTE as a person unfit to be a queen. The Prime Minister thought first that Luna was JTE... so she has her info and in the last episode, politicians wanted to use the selected bride against the Prime Minister. They asked to dig info about JTE but she doesn't exist in Lee Gon's world. 

That's why I believe that this fight against Lee Rim is not just about getting back the flute, the real goal for LG will be to create an identity for JTE in his world. As conclusion, he needs to go back in time in order to change JTE's fate as well. When the future LG met JTE in the episode 10, it doesn't necessarly mean that JTE had died... maybe Lee Gon had closed the door but she was in ROK. So when he confessed his love to her, he might have managed to go back in the past for one year but Lee Gon knew that he needed to go further back in the past. As long as Luna and JTE's places are switched, the balance is maintained hence JTE can definitely live in MOC. 

The CCTV from 2022 shows that JTE is alive... so far, Lee Gon didn't manage to find the bookstore but it really looks like the bookstore he raided which means that the CCTV reveals that Lee Gon managed to change the past.

Let us not forget that this drama is about faith and belief... therefore I believe in a happy ending.

@syntyche A really wonderful post about the time calculation... Thanks a lot!

 

[[Drama 2020] The King: Eternal Monarch, 더 킹: 영원의 군주]

Well, Luna is definitely not a real ally to Lee Rim because she stole money from him. She is definitely someone who can not be controlled so easily. She is just a lose cannon which makes her dangerous to Lee Rim. He thought, he could buy Luna so easily, but she doesn't look really devoted to him. 

I have the impression that they changed her character a little.