cyriatan
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Posts posted by cyriatan
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Most irrelevant comment ever, but it seems Yo's hair supplanted his eyeliner in thickening as the plot does
Guess some of the actors really hated their stylists...
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1 hour ago, Hanazumi said:
@cyriatan We have the same thoughts. I also do not consider him as a coward but I do admit that he gives out empty promises. Also when he turns his back on Hae Soo, he makes his choice already and he's going for the throne. For someone like Hae Soo, he's not someone that she should be with and put her love in him. I think both of them did like each other sincerely but the root of their love was not strong enough to endure when it comes to choosing between power vs. love. I think Wang Wook loves Hae Soo not because he loves her for who she is but because Lady Hae is gone and Hae Soo gives him the source of happiness in place of her and Hae Soo is just different from the other ladies that he met (just like someone mentioned previous - I can't remember who did). Hae Soo loves him because she thinks she can trust in him and he was the first to give out his hand to her. I also think that maybe he was the reminder of her boyfriend in the modern day and she thinks that she won't experience that betrayal feeling again. I do not think there was a mutual love but there was love but again, the love would not be strong enough to withstand such a sudden and painful situation as Lady Oh's sacrifice and the choice between power vs. love. I guess you can also call it infatuation like someone said previously. They were destined to meet and had good memories but the love wasn't strong and they are not destined to be until the end.
Hae Soo is slowly having feelings for Wang So without acknowledging it. She also blindly thinks that she is still liking Wang Wook but she just doesn't know her heart fully well because she's torn between both. And I agree that she needs closure. In the C-version, Ruoxi gets the closure and chooses to reciprocate 4th prince's feelings. So sooner or later, she'll move on. We just need to wait.
I think in episode 4, when Wang Wook went to save Hae Soo and Jung, it shows that he's willing to endure the hardships or even risks his life for her, only if it doesn't involve his family. But in episode 11, he has to choose. Not talking about his manipulative sister (Kang Han Na's acting is outstanding) but he cannot let his mother be involved. Like you said, he chose power and he will have to live with regrets like King Taejo and descends into the darkness. His only path now is to continue with it especially after seeing his mother kneeling down in front of Queen Yoo. To him, the path of power will give him what he wants.
But everyone will have different opinions and that is great for the discussion :). Some will pity him. Some will see him as a coward. Some will still like him. I don't think it matters because ultimately, the drama needs that so that the romance between Hae Soo and Wang So can sparkle (not sure if I use the right term). If I was Wang Wook, I will choose family like him and I will face the consequences of my decision but asking me to throw away my family, I know I can't do that.
I do think he's a coward but for not being straightforward and sharing even his struggle if he didn't know what to do. I think he's just confused, also somewhat "classist" to name it somehow. I feel he has the idea that being a prince comprises some responsabilities but also some expectations or certain "levels" one should adapt to. In this sense he said something like "there should be some place that needs me" while rain dropped in his hand. There's a place "I'm destined to" as I'm a prince. At the same time that kind of life is very tiring, so he's unsure and gets tired of his responsabilities as his mother pointed out and himself did (she mentioned to YH she didn't know how big of a burden he had, and he mentioned several times how people is always demanding things from him). Enters HS, and she does not operate under the same social expectations Goryeo-people do simply because she doesn't know them, that's hard to grasp just by reading history (something she didn't do frequently, he he he...). As you said that's fresh, and she becomes I think the excuse for WW to think that he may really be happy if he can forget about everything and just relax with her. But I think when you love someone, you share and question, WW and HS really never talked to each other about themselves. I think it's more of a platonic love, they fell for what each represented to the other going over the real person. I think one can really fall in love really hard this way, the problem is that the person you fall in love with does not exist. In this type of love you always adjust reality to your imagination and keep fantasizing. For WW, HS represents another type of life/happiness and for HS, WW represents security and purpose in a foreign land with not as much freedom. I think they felt sexual attraction but in reality never did any effort to know each other and share their burdens. I think he made empty promises...just as Hae Soo did, actually. I think you're very right that HS may have seen in WW the loyalty she expected from her cheating boyfriend, but I also think the way she was treated by her boyfriend and friend shows she's the type of person to idealize too much. Just as she does with WW. That's empty too, immature love, because in reality you could idealize anyone, since the real person does not matter at all. She does not know anything about WW, in reality, is that normal when you even really like someone? When I like someone even lightly I want to know more than anything his dreams, political opinions, well I even want to know what he thinks about onions and if he likes blue more than green, you know, how he thinks and who he is...I think their relationship was very well portrayed when she gave him the pillow, which she did because "Lady Hee said her he had a lot of worries". They just lied to each other blatantly. They never felt responsible for each other, not when things were easier...even less now.
I love WS as a character, he's the hero of this romance story and in my dreams I wish I had a WS myself (same face, please, LOL). But in reality I would respect more a man like WW actually, even if he desires the throne and power I think he's more responsible. I know he's greedy, but I think he's not like Yoo, rather he thinks that the power journey it's worth the effort only if he gains the throne. He may not be your romantic hero who would impose love over everything...like WS, but I appreciate that; I would choose like him also, but I also like he ponders things more. Maybe I'm just old and unromantic
I think his main struggle was his family, his cowardy and what I don't like was his using HS while in his confusion. He was trying to use her to prove himself of what he really wanted, if that makes any sense. As you said, HS does not need someone who uses her as a symbol, but someone who loves her. That just happens to be our very-handome WS
I hope you're right, but I still fear the transition from actual-HS to in-love-HS. I think they dragged her fear and WW-infatuation too much, I don't know, maybe it's a lack of scenes showing at least her physical attraction (I know they were some, but maybe not explicit enough?) but I hope it's believable, since it's going to happen...my fear is how.
Thank you for taking your time to reply to me and share with us your insights
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Hi chingus! As you know the thread goes palli palli
So I don't know if I may be repeting some ideas.
I wanted to comment on the topic of Hae Soo requesting from Wook if she missed her. My view may not be really romantic, but oh well. I believe HS liked WW genuinely, however at the same time I deem HS to be smart and thus always understood her marriage with Wook was not only meant to be out of love, but also "get me out of here". It had a very practical purpose of getting her out of palace, and yes, ultimately allowing her to live happily outside with Wook. But it represented in general her posibility of being happy, containing but going beyond Wook.
Wook became a source of security for HS amidst the strange Goryeo enviroment. I don't know if you have ever experienced it, I'm an inmigrant myself and have lived in different countries and being alone with no support is harsh. In those kind of situations, you need to find some relief, it may be an idea ("There's more for me travelling around in the long term than staying in the security of my home, this is who I am, this bad moment will pass, learn from it", etc. for example as it was for me) or a person that helps you and becomes a link for your adaptation. It has a deep emotional force because it's...fundamental, without it you crush under the pressure. It happens to us under great stress. When a loved one dies, sometimes we believe and hold to the strangest beliefs, after accidents, etc. Wook became for her that possibility, or element that will allow adaptation. Finding yourself again and embracing a new purpose of life...when you time-travelled to Goryeo! Living as Wook's wife theoretically-happily-forever was HS purpose of life. I don't want to mean by this that she's manipulative. When I travelled I met important persons who helped me and became special for that, and I knew I had to accept their help to adapt and was really thankful for that. You develop special trust and feelings when someone helps you in hard situations. So when WW abandoned her, she lost not only support, a lover and a friend. She lost the new life she envisioned for herself that probably took her long to construct after landing in Goryeo.
Requesting from her to completely deatach from WW is understandable, but it's more than leaving behind a lover. Once her future with WW is gone: what's there in Goryeo for her? She's lost. We know there's WS, of course
Actually I'm sad that, as many as you commented, their love relationship has not started yet since for me "unconscious" love is not that meaningful. The story need their love development and considering how things are now, I doubt we'll see the type of ferocius love at least I'd been waiting from HS. What I hope will be actually WS replacing WW in HS' "nuclear identity support". WS will become her supporter, her reason to live: "I'll help this person to achieve happiness" transformed into "We'll be happy together". I remember reading here on Soompi Ruoxi's final letter and it went about how the 4th saved her many times. I think we have been shown how HS values WW as someone who saved her many times before (even if we know it was WS most of the time). So I think her love for WS will flourish from this feelings, in dramas this type of love out of "shielding" is very common among female characters. Very distinct compared to WS, who developed more a love from mutual understanding. I personally don't like the type of love I think HS will have, but I respect it. We each love in a different way, and it's still love. I'm not saying that as time goes by, she won't end recognizing in WS someone she'll love also from mutual understanding, but I think for HS feeling secure is really important. For WS for example I think it is clear that, even if the fact she helps him and cares for him contributed to their trust, it is not the root of his love. I think that HS changing abruptly and somehow finding herself madly, passionately in love with WS after a kiss or similar would be not believable at all, but I think she'll hold to him very strongly after this turmoil. That can be passion, but...different from my expectation. I find it ironic, but maybe HS will be the one more in need of WS than the other way round, or at least they'll need each other for different reasons. Maybe I'll be surprised, I hope so!
Finally I want to say I understand WW. I think I would choose like him, and wouldn't sacrifice my family for love. I also don't think that's demandable from anyone. WS is our hero because he does, and this is a drama. I think what will drive HS and WW separated will be his lack of explanation. If WW went to HS and calmly explained he couldn't throw his family (and his desire for the throne, I think they're the same in the end) just for her, she would have been the one to tell him to not do so. I, and many other, would too. He may be greedy but his family was at stake, let's not forget that, I think his struggle was not because of the throne, but his family and responsabilities. What's unnaceptable is that he had his oportunity to explain himself but still chose to struggle rather than accepting that he's that type of person, not your romantic hero. I understand him, he had to choose between power and love. What he threw away was not only HS, but freedom and a placid life. I don't find it troublesome he'd prefer to live a life with more power than love, even if I understand that's not desirable for a romantic drama character! But it doesn't justify being a coward. That's his mistake. I hope when HS confronts him he'll explain himself. Yes he missed her, but he won't be the one to fulfill her expectations. HS will understand. If he lies because of his ego, HS will think he's a liar, because he is. That will drive them apart. If he says the truth, they still won't be together. But he'll preserve his dignity. I think before finding YH was behind the poison plot, he was still debating between responsabilities, greed and freedom and happiness. He could have really chosen the latter. However when fronted with reality, accusing his sister and abandoning his clan, power, etc. he knew he would choose palace life. I think his greed will surface since from that point onwards, if he has to go towards this path, it may as well be until the end: being the king. At the end we all pursue happiness/purpose.
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32 minutes ago, ruizaio said:
@cyriatan When did LJG say that it would be happy in the end? Most Korean fans expect it to be sad because the director said it is sadder than the C-version, although it's not clear if he meant that the ending is sad or the journey is sad. I would very much prefer a happy ending, although I don't see how that would be possible. I didn't like the reincarnation in modern time ending of Rooftop Prince.
I actually don't know if he said that, sorry! I just remember reading someone in this thread who said he mentioned it on an interview, but I'm not a LJG fan to that point so maybe it's not true. Sorry I just stated that as a fact, I didn't give it a second thought.
I haven't seen the C-version but I also think the ending would be somehow sad; I wouldn't mind a modern-time ending if the characters stay the same, but that's hard to accomplish without a loop like "overlapping memories" or something like that. I'd rather the story stay in Goryeo since a modern-time romance will be, necessarily, different even if only because of the environment. I was spoiled on how the C-drama ends prior to modern time story and found it a bit harsh for a korean drama, I'm not saying k-dramas don't deal with dramatic things, but I have the impression the sensibility is a bit different, so maybe this version will find a different/half-way path ending, I don't know. But there again that's a very ignorant impression since I haven't seen C-dramas that much.
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Regarding the idea of "visions" to be original Hae Soo memories...
When HS talks with Ji Mong, he mentions memories: airplanes, for example. Memories from his travel. They would be, weirdly, memories from the future...but oh well
He also said he kept seeing things but I think he didn't specify if they were always from the future (unknown in Goryeo things, things happening post 70's, etc.). JM is pretty shadowy, we can't be sure if he has any better knowledge of Goryeo history than HS for example, maybe he lived 20 years in the future but how many are versed in their own country history being realistic? Supposedly he travelled to the modern era while being a child, so he wouldn't have the anxiety to read history as an adult would. Maybe his knowledge is as superficial but getting to live in the modern era will surely help anyone make a living in the past I think, our common knowledge is just much better (thus explaining his position). It's been hinted he's not as clueless, though.
If the visions would indeed be memories, it will bring the trouble regarding original Hae Soo life, since she was supposed to be very different and probably wouldn't get to be together neither with Wook or Wang So so where do this memories come from? Maybe she just witnessed those, none of the memories have been intimate yet.
I am personally skeptic about the writer/production team attention to so many details/symbols (even if many I've read had been very interesting), I don't know, maybe JM just said that because we know he travelled to the future but the writter didn't develop a complex story regarding the time travel since it's not the focus of the drama at all. Maybe if they're or not visions from the future may not be relevant for the drama in the end since their purpose is the conflict at the Goryeo time between HS-WS and nothing more. At the same time LJK said the end would be happy so maybe the time-travel dynamics are more important to explain some "happy" (recognizing each other) possible modern-times ending?
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Hi!
I had a hard time understanding Soo in ep.9, to be frank. I think focusing on the fact that she's afraid of WS because of the killings, or because of her feeling, etc....I don't know, in previous episode -and one of her first scenes with WS, also- she calmly says to understand how in this period you have to kill to live. With a man full of blood and saying he had just killed people in front of her. She was so calm I remember my shock from the scene. She gets in a relationship with a man who confesses to have killed someone at young age (Wook). I don't think she's afraid of Wang So because he kills people, or you know, because he's "brutal". She knows that already. Didn't bother her before. If she were to be someone having deep trouble accepting the historical differences, well...I fear there won't be a drama to see! HS needs to be like that so she can adapt and get to love the people from the period.
What I took from the ep. was how continuosly Soo talked about her responsability. "Is this because of me?". I think this is the moment when the fact of being in Goryeo really hit her. There are many scenes when she seems to sunk in reality: the Eun-King marriage scene is one. "In this world, the word of the king can change your life". It's okay to think "Yeah, in the Goryeo era you had to kill to survive, I get that" but it's really different to think "I AM KILLING" or "someone I know is actually dying". Of course she hasn't killed anyone! But she got a harsh glass of "you are an historical subject in this period now, you have impact". I think the worries of HS of being a time-traveler weren't developed because this drama is not really about time-travel, but she has been really...adaptative. I think it finally hit her emotionally that she can't be just a viewer from the future. Not from her position (dealing with the future kings).
The Hae Soo I know would seek out context and prioritize real experience, she's been spunky and practical as a character consistently. I don't think she loves him yet or her fear has anything to do with romantic expectations. She's just scared of her own responsability, of being in Goryeo, of dealing with hard, unnaceptable things, and also from "seeing the future". Well I'd freak out just from the fact that I foresee things...even if they were awesome. So my conclusion is that she's in shock, her reality became too complex and hard to manage and thus the exaggerated reactions. Also I think IU may have made too much of a fuss in her acting, her eyes must have been dry after filming all of those scenes... (I think she's doing okay in general, this was just too much I think...). In the midst of shock she just sees violence, brutality and no reason or context for Wang So actions, and feels just fear. Wang So became in her eyes the animal, non-rational (as in with a cause) violence all the other expect him to be. She's just not rationalizing anything,...her chain of thoughts about what she sees have been non-existent. All her thoughts were about her impact.
I haven't seen the chinese drama so I don't know exactly why or how the poison scene happens, but I have a feeling that or something similar will take Soo out of catatonia and bring her to reality (in the sense of starting to catch the political ties and turns and seeing that for example, Wang So may be in danger, like the Crown Prince and all the others..."Has there been any king whose hands were not stained with the blood of his brothers before?"), where she starts seeking context, seeing Wang So as the person she knows and start being more practical, as in "okay how does this evolve and where do I have to butt in to stop the flow of happenings" instead of just simply making Wang So an evil, irrational person, because he will not kill anyone just for the sake of it. He's brutal, but he's not evil. She knows that about him. That's why I think the character development went a bit stray here, not that her reaction is abnormal, but I think it was poorly explained in a way.
Wang So had the worst part from all this. I think she'll snap out of it soon (I hope!). Lee Jun Gi is doing a superb job. The forced kiss scene was beautiful. Sad, violent, morally awful...but really meaningful. I don't think we have to accept it just because it's Goryeo, etc. His reaction was not sexual. That doesn't justify it, it doesn't have to be justified. It was wrong. But it was meaningful and very sad.
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I don't hate Se Ra actually I think even as selfish as she was (unaware of that, I mean she's not bad) suddenly finding your hella-years boyfriend married and pregnant is a shock. Also I get her career may be important to her, the selfishness for me doesn't come from that rather than from how she considered their relationship and handled Gun. But all this does not justify her being bitchy, so now I dislike this side of her. I still believe she's not bad but sad, If I remember well the TW version was really bitchy and evil, Se Ra is just hurt and doesn't know how to handle it with dignity. But I guess she'll learn that...from Mi Young
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Also I agree Gun is not being the noble idiot. Many people wouldn't want to deal with sick people. That's not always because they are bad o disconsiderate but just because it's really hard, even more if you love that person, many just can't. Even if we know Mi Young would still be there for him, just telling the other person implies changing to another page on the relationship...I don't know much about Gun's illness but I know about Alzheimer's and I totally understand him, when he said he was afraid of forgetting her I could see why he was doing that. He may be wrong, I know, but I would not call that mistake as idiotic, it's really hard and life-changing. I know it's an expression, just saying I can relate to him -
ymiss said:
I guess we're entering the first angst part but at the same time I think all the factory trouble may be helpful to throw down Gun's misconception about Min Young and the drug-Macau stuff. The drama is fast-paced compared to the taiwanese one so I hope in the next episodes that gets solved. Not that I don't like Min Young-Gun interaction and all but I found a little bit incredible that Gun passed from angry-to-death to a veeery soft-hearted Gun especially in ep. 6., all the 'Min Young is involved' got lost a bit, but I understand they're going for a more light-hearted drama, however I think that must be solved, I would prefer it being in the next episodes than between the Sera hurricane.
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I guess we're entering the first angst part but at the same time I think all the factory trouble may be helpful to throw down Gun's misconception about Min Young and the drug-Macau stuff. The drama is fast-paced compared to the taiwanese one so I hope in the next episodes that gets solved. Not that I don't like Min Young-Gun interaction and all but I found a little bit incredible that Gun passed from angry-to-death to a veeery soft-hearted Gun especially in ep. 6., all the 'Min Young is involved' got lost a bit, but I understand they're going for a more light-hearted drama, however I think that must be solved, I would prefer it being in the next episodes than between the Sera hurricane.
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didyay said: OFF TOPIC: Is it only me that cannot visit page 270 because of malware posted there?
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This writer has proved once more she has the ability to turn the "so so/good" characters into lame ones. The grandmother and the "cut off that body part" and all that was so stupid, I mean, is that the way the elder manages a marriage? With coercion? I would be in despair if my husband does not cheat on me or mistreat me for the solely reason of an authoritarian figure he fears. I know is meant to be funny but I found it, once more, inefable stupid, even insulting to EH. If you want to be funny make it brightly, so it can be really funny. If that's caring for someone, thank you, I'll deal with my stuff all alone #-o
With the drama ended, it felt as there's no progression: there was, I know, but it felt specially on ep. 35 as if all of those episodes just looped to the start, witth the characters still waiting to develop. -
I don't want to bother anybody but since it's Wednesday still and maybe some people has still not seen it I think it would be right putting the info above in spoiler with some advice since some may prefer to see it first hand, since it's such a crucial moment and it's not a guessing but quite a spoiler
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Today Jung Saem Mool who's the makeup artist for the show uploaded a video on how she does Nam Sang Mi's makeup in GoM, maybe some of you find it interesting
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Yeah you know but...once upon a time...you could try to figure motivations of the characters. Maybe stupid ones most of the time, even more as the drama went by, okay, but there was some kind of internal logic. But since some episodes from now the thing has gotten totally out of control. It's not that one can't understand the characters, it's just that they are not comprehensible. Some of them lack the minimal connection to their past self. We have been seeing the same story on loop for 34ep. and suddenly all is rushed but the characters are even unrecognizable or just richard simmons crazy, the scene of EMIL with the pictures in the basement was some serious stuff. The police station ending in "Happy Family getting drunk" was also WTF. Also the wine-scene between JH and HJ was like: I'm such a loser, come, let's drink buddy! Serious mind-richard simmons stuff. Out of nowhere. The drinking scene was so unbearable, I can't stand people who drink to cope with life. Even HJ who was the "empowered" woman, or at least the most one, finally gets portrayed as a loser who even says: "I'm also a woman, feed me and get me pregnant please" while drinking in hiding...hello? ~X( I'm so annoyed, really.
The most entertaining thing is wondering if LSW ever breaths or just simply slides to the right magically. Such a talent! :-? Also I wonder what happened to poor EH's child. He seemed to be living in JS house but suddenly he disappeared. Also JH's pregnant friend story was a mess. Not even the most secondary stories are well constructed. Phew.
Also I don't quite get how JH insomnia was treated. I've had insomnia for many years and you're sleepy yes but it's not the same as narcolepsy or something as uncontrollable as that, JH just seems to have no control about getting sleep during the day or even is not conscious about falling asleep - like in the restaurant. I get her insomnia may be caused by stress about fronting the in-laws in the morning and once that passes she can relax and sleep during the day, but it's portrayed really weird. Also it is very disturbing that TW suffers seeing she get asleep but after bleeding because of stress and overdosing by accident his response was not even half as caring. It amazes me how he looks painfully at her when she's asleep, he seems to be dying - she's sleeping folk. Maybe I got lost but she seems to be sleeping because she lacks quality-night sleep, he looks at her as if she were dying or something 8-| I get he's considering their whole marriage and the pitiful state JH is in but it just seems so exaggerated considering how other things were treated in the drama. The breakfast scene was hilarious, even HJ had a O_O face..."why is aunt doing that?", she's sleeping child, just wake her up! They were all staring at her as if she was killing somebody ~X( ~X( ~X( -
- I think Tae Wook has NOT changed at all, nor is he divorcing for JH. He's divorcing because he has decided to stay by his father. USA didn't work, FIL told him "Are you leaving ME now?"...so, foreseeing the storm that's coming he's letting JH go. I knooow, that shows some consideration, but I think that if the circumstances were other he would not file for divorce. Even if JH turned into a ZOMBIE. He's pushed by the circumstances, and finally decided to choose family. Pappa-boy 4evah
) He can follow his mamma into jail and make breakfast for her since 4am filling his precious filial duty - get some paintings for the crazy frog btw, only they understand her...or something 8-}
- I'm soooo dissapointed in J-Sung. She was like the most respectable character but H.E.L.L there she goes smiling when she sees EH "coming back to the family" and teasing poor -but weird, that proposing-kiss was WTF- young hottie, after the police station load of...inefable stupidity. I mean anybody is happy to have the "normal order of my life" back to normal when it's f*cked up, I get that, but if that order is hella' WRONG normal people actually get the chance and make CHANGES. You know normal people normally try to keep improving their life conditions, you know, we all try to keep going each time better, more prudently, happily. BUT in this drama they don't, they meddle with the shittest sh!t of their life not less than THE WHOLE DRAMA. Well yeah excuse me, first episode apart. She was like the only person who could withstand abuse less (a little, at least) and then 3 episodes before end...she's like another person you know, actually happy that EH got back to disgusting-face husband and gotohell family. Maybe she's just evil and want her to cope with ridiculous MIL and stop feeding her niece or something. SO WEIRD. Don't get me started on EH. FIL tearful help was so deus ex machina and ROLF.
So my conclusion is: I'm never seeing anything more by this writer. I'm not trying to understand now. It's useless because one thing is not empathising with the character, that may happen. But this sh!t has no order, logic or nothing: character construction is a mess, story development is a mess, everything is a mess, non-sense, there's no internal logic, coherence. I don't know when but latest episodes have just destroyed the tiny internal logic the drama had, that little coherence. So now I'm just waiting for something, ONE thing: get that annoying bat-frog being into jail along with his disgusting sex-drived son. The scene with the paintings in the pseudo-jail like room was mildly satisfying. Now: GET ME THE REAL THING AND WE'RE DONE!
Thank God it ends this weekend. Btw: had I known this was the writer of Golden Era of The Daughter in Law, I would've NEVER watched this. Another psycho-MIL but poor and just PIG'S FOOT and pig foot tradition everywhere. Ah no I forgot: add a very annoying halmeoni that's like Kang-EMIL²! The lead actress was cute but cried endlessly, KJH was also an useless being and nfjknrjkfebnrjfb, I coped with 70% of the drama. Couldn't finish it. GOM is worse, but I think this writer has some kind of trauma or something :-?
- Also if JH and HW end together that would be the most non-sense, weird ending EVAH, specially if the writer introduces it like in ep.36 min 40 ~X( And even if we get it like for ep. 35. Blah.
- LSW, I feel so sorry for you. If some crazy korean folk decides to do a drama about humans faking to be sloths I would def. recommend LSW! Of the 4 s he appeared in his cell he moved like 1 nm per scene. All himself horizontally, no further changes. Slooowly 8-| -
I feel this drama has one problem mainly, and that is it's too long, it feels as if it was meant to be a 24-28 at most episodes drama but here we are at 36...the middle episodes before JH-HW meeting felt like "filling", since they both met things got more active, those middle episodes were filled with little advances and too much swinging that lead to more swinging and things were really not set until recently to a point where they can advance.
Seeing what KJH said in the Bobbi Brown interview, more up and downs are to come...also I don't agree the title of the drama implies JH will stay with TW, actually if a marriage doesn't work I think you have to be brave enough to see it, admit it, talk it, decide to finish it (even more when you have kids, like in EH case)...and even more if you consider per example JH situation and that we're seeing a korean drama. Sometimes divorce may mean being the Goddess (or the God, also) of Marriage. For me EH per example would be a real Goddess of Marriage if she takes her husband and send him to anywhere-as-long-as-you-don't-bother...just for herself, and for her son (but I wish she will have something with the hottie youngster>-).
I think the main focus on this drama is how characters struggle with social norms, how many of those when followed strictly will make you unhappy, as in what should prevail: individual happiness or social order and also, I think this drama is very critical..are those social norms actually good, morally good, as to be legit to be followed? Should you drain yourself in their name, is it acceptable, dignifying? It's a family drama after all, this is why I always find them interesting, normally is the subyacent main problem of the genre. What I like of GOM is that it's not your black/white moralistic drama, I often find myself thinking wether some actions of the leads are rightful or not, the characters for me have some complexity, I really appreciate that. -
SexyDolceVita said: I agree that JH only feels a sense of responsibility towards tw in their marriage.
in episode 23, jh told yeon soo that she was living the karma and retribution of her own decision...a sense of duty and responsibility was what her life was about in that house.
I thought in episode 19, when jh was thrilled and grateful to leave and start a new life in ny with tw...maybe she has really developed some feelings or love for tw, even as a wife...
But now...i think jh only feels entitled to be responsible for tw... it is not love...more like...since im his wife now, i should behave like his wife....and be there for him.
Whereas towards hw, it was true passion and love that oozed straight from jh's heart, mind, body and soul.
Love has no reason. Love needs no reason. Love doesnt need to have meanings too.
Tw's love for jh has no reasons too.
He is just so crazily attracted to her that he has to have her, simply because he is kang tae wook, there is nothing in this world that he cannot attain yet...
The more difficult it is to hold onto jh, the more he would want to conquer and attain jh.
Mainly to satisfy his high ego, high self esteem and pride.
This is why jh mentioned tw's heart is filled with obssession and not love...
But in tw's eyes, to him...it is love..which we cant deny too because each person has his or her own definitions of love...
A successful relationship for tw can only occur when the woman he loves returns his love willingly and in a situation without interference from his parents.
In that kind of harsh environment, no matter how much a woman loves tw...she will cease to love him over time when she finds no sense in living like this...
That, my friend, is the sad truth about tw's fate and destiny.
Unless he leaves his family, he will never find true love... -
To have a healthy, confident relationship you have to be confident about yourself, about your "value". Tae Wook has never had the opportunity to feel confident regarding JH simply because she does not love him nor has ever. I don't think she does not feel maybe attraction, some feelings...but she never loved him, and he has always known it, I think JH has been very cruel to him -the same as HW with SK-, because she may have given in regarding the marriage, but Tae Wok, IMO, has always known she did not marry him just "for him", even more, had she had not all that pressure from family/society/etc. probably she would not have married him. I regard JH decision about marrying TW as "objectifying" him, she did not consider Tae Wok as a person to share your life with, rather she married the view many people -her father, per example- had of him in her life. Tae Wok really is a lonely, very lonely person. Then to make things worse, JH had an affair - when they were supposedly talking about breaking up, if I don't remember incorrectly. I consider that given the state of the relationship when JH met HW maybe it's not that accurate to call that an "affair", the even talked openly about leaving each other: things were not good - never, even before HW.
Where do you get strength if you have never had confidence enough from the start? I think that's why the "love" Tae Wok has over JH is also "objectifying", like in conquering something, not even communicating just possesing her, simply because that's the only way he can "have" her. They view each other this way, each one in their way. What I see in JH over the drama is that she slowly kind of began worrying about the person, Tae Wok himself. But not as in a love interest, friendly-kind of worrying. That's why I think she's so immature - you can not marry a person just because he's "nice", and yeah...kind of. Love is not enough to marry anyone, but going back just because "the family", "oh, poor Tae Wok", "he's been so nice I can´t hurt him" is being kind of disrespectful with Tae Wok in my opinion, when you respect somebody you just simply does not allow certain things that may put the other person in an indignifying state, you simply can't allow that, the other person is worth more than that.
What I don't like about JH and HW is that they are that kind of person that is so, so nice that they end up hurting others because hey, they are sooo, sooo nice, JH hurt Tae Wok and HW, SK. It doesn't justify other things like TW being so pathetic, but JH is not a victim 100%. I think what she has to learn as a character is this, and change her actions. Being overly passive it's just being irresponsible - to your life, yourself, to others.
I feel TW has the same problem with his family, the way he was brought up made him a lonely, with almost no confidence person, how can he stand up against them? If he were to develop it, I think he will be the first to accept his errors with JH, but also the first to leave her. I find Tae Wok position in their relationship to be one in which he's constantly put down, in a moral way, in the midst between JH and his family and by JH from the start - he does the same with her. JH may have lost her confidence, but TW never had one to start with. I think that' why he's the way he is, so low and passive, lonely and unable to handle anything.
I consider SK mother to be kick-richard simmons and awesome, maybe a little bit high-pitched voice but hey, I'll take a poshy person with guts over most of the characters of this drama aaaaany time B-) -
I think SK will leave HW by herself, in the last episodes she has had this kind of "longing" scenes, looking sadly at HW like thinking: "Is this all, is it going to be like this?", she's been like this since her mother said to her his heart is elsewhere several episodes ago (she somehow knew but her mother kinds of put it on her face...now she actually put face to her, and she knows who she is since she had this photo of JH in her workplace and will connect things), I'm referring to the scenes like when they are visiting the villa and talk in the terrace or when HW just leaves her alone in the hotel's room and she says she's going to change and keeps staring at him sadly and such. I don't think she'll grab to him, I personally don't like the character much but I don't think that she's that immature (she's childish, not the same thing) or "bad", she may be annoying but she's been always "correct", I wouldn't follow shamelessly anyone for 10 years and then make a come-back to intensify the stalking but hey, that' not being strictly mean, at the end she actually got the guy, korean dramas are keen on this kind of characters who persist until hell frozens, however I think she'll see that if she marries HW they'll be BOTH unhappy, and I think she doesn't want that not only for her but neither for him, she loves him dearly, and she's kind after all. She's going to suffer and struggle a lot I think but I see her as independent at least that much, hey she came from a 10 year alone trip! She'll kind of see they're, both, worth more than that. Or at least I get that feeling
TW is the most annoying character in the whole drama, maybe surpassed by HW, also known as the "sad, sad sloth". I don't get why Kim Ji Hoon took the role, he's just pathetic and has almost no protagonism or...anything, just appears time to time, yells a bit with the same face always and in general he seem very awkward, his acting is not natural or credible at all, his reactions are always too sudden and..just like when HJ came to the house in ep24 and then he shouted like hell and then...that's it, the same face again, I don't believe his character at all. I started seeing this because of him, I'm not saying this kind of as an "antifan" or anything, but it's been so dissapointing, the character is so plain and boring, always the same face and attitude, utterly pathetic, no progress, anything. I think he'll hit JH, just like his brother. I don't know if he will kind of suicide himself or try to kill himself and JH or anything, I don't think so, he's so passive and sad...I think he'll try to control HJ with violence, not only physical but kind of using her father or trying to make her feeling guilty about him after the family goes basically to über-hell (in hell they live...)
This drama is very bad, the idea is kind of good and I get a glimpse of that so I keep watching, and there are some characters I find rather interesting, like HJ or EH, but the developing is really awful, I even think the characters may be well drawn but bad put in scene, most of them got the be played as simple and stupid when I actually think they're very "human" in their flaws...however I feel there are some important issues regarding marriage being thought, you kind of need to have experienced those social norms and have had a serious relationship involving family-in-law to kind of get why the characters do what they do, I understand even why HW is doing that even if he knows, because he knows it, it is not what he wants neither is it right, or why HJ held there, etc. But such and interesting topic got drowned in a very boring way of telling a story that could have been better, regretful. At least is a different drama, I don't see it as your classical family drama but either as a drama "just for entertainment" since the topic needs adult viewers and is kind of a slow, not-happy drama; however it could have been what it is not, sadly.
HJ sister is one of the best female characters in drama land
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KJH has super sexy lips :\">
I think his main struggle was his family, his cowardy and what I don't like was his using HS while in his confusion. He was trying to use her to prove himself of what he really wanted, if that makes any sense. As you said, HS does not need someone who uses her as a symbol, but someone who loves her. That just happens to be our very-handome WS 
Actually I'm sad that, as many as you commented, their love relationship has not started yet since for me "unconscious" love is not that meaningful. The story need their love development and considering how things are now, I doubt we'll see the type of ferocius love at least I'd been waiting from HS. What I hope will be actually WS replacing WW in HS' "nuclear identity support". WS will become her supporter, her reason to live: "I'll help this person to achieve happiness" transformed into "We'll be happy together". I remember reading here on Soompi Ruoxi's final letter and it went about how the 4th saved her many times. I think we have been shown how HS values WW as someone who saved her many times before (even if we know it was WS most of the time). So I think her love for WS will flourish from this feelings, in dramas this type of love out of "shielding" is very common among female characters. Very distinct compared to WS, who developed more a love from mutual understanding. I personally don't like the type of love I think HS will have, but I respect it. We each love in a different way, and it's still love. I'm not saying that as time goes by, she won't end recognizing in WS someone she'll love also from mutual understanding, but I think for HS feeling secure is really important. For WS for example I think it is clear that, even if the fact she helps him and cares for him contributed to their trust, it is not the root of his love. I think that HS changing abruptly and somehow finding herself madly, passionately in love with WS after a kiss or similar would be not believable at all, but I think she'll hold to him very strongly after this turmoil. That can be passion, but...different from my expectation. I find it ironic, but maybe HS will be the one more in need of WS than the other way round, or at least they'll need each other for different reasons. Maybe I'll be surprised, I hope so!
>- 
[Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner
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The thread goes very fast, so this will seem like random comments about different things...because they're
I finally watched last episode with subs and all and as I feared, the writting of Hae Soo is very inconsistent. I find this happens frequently with the spunky-independent type of female characters in dramas, as in: they have some behaviours depicting that, but at the same time fall easily in "romantic love" sexist myths. I don't want to bring feminism to this since I know a korean drama is not the place, I am talking really superficially here. For example I was disappointed with a Hae Soo that leaves WW when she finally gets to understand that he will not be the one to sacrifice everything for her. I know that would be required for them to be together, but I think HS was expecting that kind of heroic, romantic "I'll protect you forever" kind of love because of the expectancy of "this is how love is" even if they didn't end together. Would HS leave WW if he were to try to fight for her even if he failed? Can we answer this without doubt? I'm not really sure...It is shown in her 2016-relationship that she idealizes love too much, well didn't learn her lesson...her idea is that of the romantic knight-esque love, to put some name. Her way of loving feels teenagery for me...she now goes to WS, when I find it would've been more valuable and fair for him that she were to love him even if WW wanted to fight for her till the end. English is not my first language so I don't know if I'm expressing myself...I feel as if WS was a second plate? Like she also liked him so well, I'll finally accept his heart...I understand we are supposed to believe her heart went to WS long ago unconsciously and find those petty signals oh so precious and a sign of crazy love. Well, I don't. What I know is that until this episode HS is still bitter about WW, and putting puppy-eyes and not being angry enough that's he's lying in her face just like that. Damn she should leave him was there or not a hot WS making the Earth a better place. She does say him "this is for you, not me" (throne desire), but still many of you expressed doubts about her intention when asking to leave with her...what I mean is: just for self-respect, can there be any doubt? As I said this kind of sloppy development where the female is oh-so-independent but later shows your typical female character spluttering for love at any cost is frequent. I guess a real independent female character could not be made believable when portraying some typical romantic k-drama situations. Some of you called this a conclusion. I still don't know if there's a conclusion to her feelings, I'm told to believe it but I can't feel it. Maybe is the acting, but I suspect is mainly the script. I'm going to enjoy their lovey-dove scenes a lot, but still think the transition was not smooth at all.
Regarding the drama I pity LJG who generally fails to pick stellar projects. He has good dramas, but they are not "wow" you know? As many of you, I'm crazy about Wang So and LJG, his acting is superb! And his face, let's be honest
I quite like KHN and WW, as an evil witty character since I always like those. I am a fan of Yo's edgy eyeliner and flashy earrings because he's hot and evil, and bad boys is my romantic myth I do not follow in real life but endulge with in dramas 
But the editing is super bad, the flow of the story is terrible. I didn't see the Cdrama-V but I know it will come and question myself how will the Chaeryung situation come to the spotlight. When she appeared crying for HS I thought: "Woah, she...existed...". Woo Hee/Baek Ha relationship sailed faster than our OTP but damn cheesily. I cringed the whole ep. The year-gap didn't save it, sorry, for me it feels as if sketches suddenly apparead to take a break from the real storyline. The same with Eun. I know those are funny scenes, but is not balanced, they break the general atmospthere...Jung confessing to HS is supposed to explain the end? Like...REALLY? Ok. Also mismatching scenes, the Queen turning into a banshee suddenly, etc. Even the previews are badly done, showing stuff disorderly...
I like IU, not a fan but I listen to her music and find her cute and pretty. But I have had a trouble with her with LJG...this is highly personal, but she's too soft and pretty to depict the kind of woman HS is supposed to be I think. Sometimes she feels too cute and child-like alongside LJG. LJG has fierce features and also acts really passionatelly. IU is really passive in a way I can't describe better, hm, like...I always feel as if LJG overshadows her, that's more like it. For me it makes it less believable? I don't know, I don't feel any chemistry from IU's side. The chemistry is there, but it all comes from LJG's acting for me. Anyhow I know she's put a lot of effort, but still she lacks the force to make the story epic. The same for the other idol's starring, the best one is the one acting as Baek Ha I think. The Woo Hee girl for example did the same as IU: open her eyes a lot! All the time. I think the problem is with the casting team, not the idols, as they're not actors and it's okay, they do their best. But watching the other actors the difference is striking. I'm kind of happy they cut many of the younger princes time,...
I like this drama a lot, but I know that if LJG wasn't here, well...
He's not the only hard-working one I know, and also there are many seasoned actors (king, queens, Lady Oh, Ji Mong, etc.) but he really carries the drama. Lately I've been a bit dissapointed since the dragging of WW-HS has been serious, and the editing in the last eps. has been really messy. I know it should have been hard to fit so many years and happenings, but I have a feeling this a CITT case, with the director loving KHN? I really like his acting, but the side stories seems to suffer from this. I don't find it strange it hasn't been working that well in Korea. I probably would have stopped watching if not for LJG, maybe I'll watch for KHN but not as addicted.
A little negative, sorry ya'll! But I even waited until now to see the episode, I've been feeling a bit "sad" about the drama since I hurt so much for LJG and his acting since it's so good. The main issue here I think was directing and production and the like, and not the actors, including our hard-working idols. I think SBS failed to combine succesfully foreign (idols, OST, etc.) and local marketing strategies and it became a bit of a mess.
With that said I'm going to watch Jealousy Incarnate
with our evil queen doing a great job and very different character! Check it out if you hate her too much, she's a great actress.