[Lee Dong Wook 이동욱 Global Fans at Soompi]

Hello, thanks for your consistent updates on LDW's projects!

I wasn't able to finish S1 of TotNT. Not due to LDW, he was serving both in visuals and acting, the character of Lee Yeon suited him and his dynamic with KB as his younger brother was what really stood out for me. I am willing to give this S2  a go, however, and hope for a better plot to encompass these characters. I find the setting in late 1930s era intriguing.

That said, I'd love to hear more casting news soon. I feel that LDW venturing more often into projects like Strangers from Hell or Bad and Crazy, will benefit his career and allow him to show more of his versatility, which I believe gets slightly hampered in stereotypically romantic roles.

And a little throwback photo cause I appreciate this look very much

[[Official] SPARTACE COUPLE KimJongkook-SongJiHyo]

I see I was tagged. The truth is I am always around the fandom and periodically return to this thread, which is a place for those interested in Spartace to come together away from anyone purposely shedding doubts.  In fact, I am one of the fans with whom @linzer03 mentioned earlier she discusses old and new theories. And with that said, I'm seconding the great arguments she made.

A few points:
~ I'm also contemplating the possibility KJK lied about using  a nickname coined up in a variety show for his longtime friend (and perhaps lover) on his personal cellphone. Additional details that may or may not point in that direction: a) It's YJS who first says he has saved SJH as Mong Ji Hyo. In the event that KJK needed fast a funny answer, it was easy to be inspired by options already heard. b) According to some body language guides "Fingers above the mouth in the philtrum area can mean low confidence, anxiety, or shyness. This is also a blocking behavior that covers the mouth, which may mean someone is hesitant to speak."  Although there is no skin contact, this is the motion KJK does when talking about SJH. Why would he exhibit hesitancy or anxiety if SJH was saved with her own name or an innocuous sobriquet every fan knows? c) There's a contrast to how KJK speaks when he's revealing the names of HH, JSM and YSC. Then he's straightforward, the answers flow easily past his lips, his eyes don't waver. Conversely, both KJK and SJH sideglance when he's talking about her. Breaking eye contact like this can indicate pondering what's being said, recalling a true sound, or fabricating a lie. Of course, all these are just theories to expand our discussions and should be taken lightly.  If we are truly searching for romantic Spartace hints, there have been other much more substantial incidents throughout the years.
 

~ Dogmatic statements (i.e. KJK would never do/say X for SJH, YJS would never question SA etc.) have no place when talking about people we don't personally know while they prioritise the demands of largely or partly scripted shows. If they need to keep aspects of their personal lives hidden from us, yes there's a good chance they won't speak or behave as expected from couples, especially when confronted with the accusation they are one. They will have to use words that don't point to a romantic relationship. It's of no surprise that the majority of suspicious Spartace moments in and out of RM emerge when the loveline isn't the main topic (i.e. bts kitchen scene in Outrun, Byul whispering SJH's name on Big Picture and many more).
 

~ Various, sometimes contradictory, versions of the same story usually conceal one or more lies. Recently, we've been presented with such stories involving SA (the 2015 flight incident, the timeframe SJH learnt about KJK's covid-19 positive test) and their different recountings don't really add up. Regarding the NY trip, the monitor of SJH's seat not functioning, subsequently obligating her to move closer to KJK and his mother, is such a specific detail to have been omitted all the previous times SA brought up this incident. Especially when on Crazy Recipe Adventure KJK insisted they were sitting separately and this important detail could have justified why if it was true. As for the covid-19 situation, fans have already highlighted the inconsistencies in  both KJK and YJS's stories. What I would like to add is that, as a KJK admirer first and foremost, I find it hard to believe that such a thoughtful, and appreciative of his closest people, individual wouldn't inform his unvaccinated family member soon after his positive self test, before any PCR results. This suggests SJH may have actually been among the first people to know.

~ Between speculating whether SA are two harmonious friends with a future lovers potential, if they open their eyes to romantic compatibility that they currently deny, because they fail to realise what I, somehow, identify from my couch, based on my own views of these people's innermost desires and thoughts  AND speculating if SA are/were lovers based again on my personal interpretations of, this time however, actual incidents and facts while any denial on their part fits the common practice of couples in the Korean entertainment industry, I choose the second option. I tend to repeat this like a broken record, but KJK and SJH are two mature individuals with wide social circles working in a demanding, sexualised industry and bonding over meaningful time spent together every week for years. They aren't two ill-fated romantics in a novel waiting a decade to make a move.

~ Watching PCitH, what immediately stood out to me was how KJK cordially assists SJH in building her image. It is something we had already noticed as fans, YJS is always the one to allocate time, ensuring the members are engaging in a joke or discussion topic, but KJK often seems more accomodating towards SJH, diverting the attention to her. It is interesting how they are candidly talking about it now. Per their words, he instructs her to talk more during the opening segments, he urges her to show bigger reactions and so on. KJK joked that 12 years later she still tries to find her place in the show, and I think his statement harbors all the worries fans have been voicing too about her lack of screentime or her passiveness. Combine this with RM editors' choice to use KJK's silhouette when SJH mentioned her staff is helping her to improve her image. An unusual choice indeed to outline KJK if he had no involvement because it concerns personal photos unrelated to RM and the hint was too subtle to count as part of their loveline. There's absolutely no variety value in adding details the majority of the viewers will miss.

Unfortunately, I still haven't watched some of the recent RM episodes. I shall share more thoughts once I do. Meanwhile, please enjoy this throwback photo of KJK. The assumption that the Spartace fandom has no primarily/solely KJK supporters floats around and this could not be more wrong.

[[Official] SPARTACE COUPLE KimJongkook-SongJiHyo]

I don't know how to say this, so I'll just put it bluntly. They are neither inexperienced teenagers first time finding love, nor old friends who meet once in a blue moon. If they are dating, they have been dating for a while, just as KJK jokingly replied in ep.547. If they aren't dating, they won't magically realise their feelings after 11 years of constant contact.

 

Now about their conversation over the "almost" kiss. Statistically, most people lean right when initiating a kiss. There have been studies about it, I'll include a link to an article under a spoiler tag but you can also google it.
 

Spoiler

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/why-most-of-us-lean-to-the-right-when-we-kiss

Instinctively, I would lean right too, unless my placement was restrictive. Anyway, SJH here is doing what actors do during kissing scenes; she is discussing the angle. I can't tell if she seriously wants to clarify how they wiill be shooting it or she is lowkey teasing him as his blushing has variety value too, perhaps both, but the point is professional actors like her do discuss such scenes. It has nothing to do with whether they have kissed before or not, nothing to do with knowing anyone's habit as she would ask regardless (objectively, there's nothing to "know", people go either right or left, that's it, it becomes important only at each separate scene). KJK's reaction is where the interest lies. First of all, it's obvious he isn't used to shooting kissing scenes, as he finds SJH's question absurd and gets flustered. He is omitting the important technicalities, answering what's obvious to him - "what do you mean, I always go this way, girls go the opposite" - and laughing, because for anyone who isn't an actor such a scene could be embarrassing.

The question is whether this is the only explanation behind his reaction. Let's assume that instead of filming Outrun, he was shooting his own videoclip, not with SJH, but with a model hired for this purpose. If the model asked him about the kissing angle, wouldn't he make sure to explain - even if not used to such scenes - exactly cause he would want to be extra cautious and not accidentally make the woman feel uncomfortable due to their proximity? Remember his stalling pepero game in ep. 198 in order to make everything clear about his and HYS's attempt. Yet in Outrun, it's how, after the initial surprise, he doesn't see it as his obligation to seriously discuss the angle and continues being startled that makes it suspect. Does he expect SJH to follow his lead as usual and her teasing takes him by surprise? His question "When...?" has garnered attention, with some Korean fans treating it as a possible reference to how they normally kiss, but it's left hanging incomplete. This also indicates we shouldn't overanalyse it further and should just enjoy the scene for what it is. If a speculation has to be drawn out of it, as you can see, it's a positive one.

 

ETA: KJK has tested positive for Covid-19. YSC & JSJ too, hopefully they will all have a speedy recovery.

https://www.soompi.com/article/1512336wpp/kim-jong-kook-tests-positive-for-covid-19

[[Official] SPARTACE COUPLE KimJongkook-SongJiHyo]

I thought it would be a shame not to also mention the latest domestic SA goodness here. As a KJK fan first and foremost, I'm really happy his venture into vlogging has been an absolute success so far.


 

Many of us will agree that we never expected SJH to be KJK's first guest, even if we had joked about it. Running his own youtube channel is a new endeavour for KJK, and usually at such times the closest people to us are the first to show their support. In the past, SJH has attended the opening of KJK and HH's restaurant, has been among the first KJK related guests on MUD, has been mentioned in the first episodes of Big Picture, has supported Turbo in their concert despite not being among the night's performers like guests usually are and so on.

SA were a delight to watch throughout the video. Both natural, comfortable with each other and their surroundings (especially SJH looked pretty accustomed to the apartment), enjoyable in their funny banter like a long-standing couple. Truth is we may still not know the real nature of their relationship, but the idea of siblings that some fans have in their mind is something to wonder about; I've never seen a brother so softly staring at his sister while she's doing the most mundane thing, aka eating, and then smiling away. Not once, but repeatedly. Except, maybe, in a Bernardo Bertolucci film.
 

Since KJK's channel launch coincided with SJH's upcoming TV drama, it was the perfect opportunity for them to promote both with this collaboration and I'm glad they did. However, at the end of the day, KJK's priority is his channel and its quality content. He could have chosen a fitness superstar as a first guest, exactly cause he is very serious about body-building. He had already gained a lot of traffic with his previous videos, should he continue on this path, even new business opportunities may rise - i.e. his own fitness show. He could have literally chosen any Korean sports person, besides it's the gym enthusiasts that will help him establish a following, not the casual fan that may lose interest if training isn't their thing. Yet, KJK chose SJH, who's known neither for exercising, nor for her healthy diet. Her TV drama has plenty of buzz already, and if they aren't together, why would KJK put promoting her above everything else?

Meanwhile, people in SA's environment openly endorse them. First, we have Tiny, who for weeks now advertises SJH's TV drama and KJK's youtube channel on social media almost daily. Tiny's involvement with SA has always been quite interesting. A few months ago he had posted the following:

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

If SJH had been an avid LA visitor or had recently expressed her intention to visit LA once the covid-19 restrictions were lifted, I would totally get this joke's phrasing. Considering she has done neither, why would SA's close friend deliberately fuel the fantasies of his followers - knowing well the majority of them are RM fans and may burden SA - if the "joke" had little to no chance of happening? All the people who still flatly rule out the possibility of SA being a couple should consider what this belief implies for Tiny; that basically a wealthy man of his age, who has been the owner of nightclubs, who is neither an influencer, nor a journalist hunting for gossip, who has nothing to gain as he already has access to the Korean entertainment industry, that kind of man spends his time conversing on IG with young fans (a big portion of whom he knows are SA fans) and even follows SA accounts, even though the ship is totally fake. I hope people realise how messed up this scenario is.

Secondly, SJH's hairstylist shared a picture of her screen showing KJK and SJH's video, praising them and adding a heart-eyed sticker - a representation of herself while watching. You can find a translation of her caption on Spartacecouplenew's post : https://www.instagram.com/p/CREe2xBNpgD/  Similarly, former RM PD, Kim Joo Hyung, also updated his IG story.

We are all looking forward to the second part of this unforeseen collaboration. People who haven't been following SJH or Spartace may get the idea that SJH is a complete stranger to working out, but this is untrue and anyone can find more references in older interviews and shows (for example, in the show Go Fridge she revealed she eats chicken breast after her exercising). In KJK's video, however, SJH embodies the average female viewer who bears all the queries of a beginner and by posing the right (and probably planned) questions, provides KJK with the opportunity to explain a number of topics. A quite nice and functioning format really, and as you can see, SA are already reaping what they sowed; at the time of this post, the video has already exceeded 5.2 million views.

On the Running Man front, there have been various moments that are worthy of mentioning and I'll probably return to this topic in another post. I'd just like to briefly reply to something Xonos was wondering in an earlier comment, regarding KJK's gym equipment taking up space in his apartment and whether this could be an obstacle for a future spouse living with him. KJK is a popular and wealthy 45 years old singer/entertainer, there's no reason for a guy like him to continue living in a small apartment intended for filming purposes once he decides to get married. There's also no reason for him to reveal his plans to us and whether he already has another place or not. Often celebrities own more than one apartment/house, so they can live their private lives peacefully, away from media and fans' prying eyes.

 

[[Official] SPARTACE COUPLE KimJongkook-SongJiHyo]

There are several reasons why this thread's activity has slowed down. Obviously fandoms feed on content and 2020 wasn't generous with Spartace. However, the causes weren't necessarily pertaining to SA; PDs' choices on RM, Covid-19 banning them from holding fanmeets & other events, no continuation of Big Picture (a source of various SA references), lack of guesting in each other's shows and so on. Moreover, the majority of shippers frequent social media where the SA fandom thrives, as well as Discord servers and other chatgroups. Personally, I prefer places that don't brim with blatant fans' delusions, but the point is a lot of us who were active here, are still very much involved with SA.

From today's RM live:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CNR5oJWBL15/

A quite funny SA exchange of glances. Whereas they were all turning towards each other during their cute antics and variety-type banter, SJH is the only one who reacted like this as soon as KJK blurted out he'll do a personal live (seemingly on top of his head), something he hasn't done before and will be unrelated to RM. Other highlights include KJK's aegyo and SJH's Rollin'. She briefly turned towards KJK when she was about to start, as if she was checking out with him, despite KJK not saying anything and the majority of the group sitting on her left.

 

About episodes 547 and 548, I echo everyone enjoying the abundance of their natural interactions, comfortable skinship and genuinely beaming faces. I could do without the overt variety-style teasing though, not a fan of it. Still, the rule of thumb remains; any SA is better than no SA.

There are a couple of points I've already discussed with other SA fans. Firstly, in ep 547, KJK's saying "we've been dating for a long time" is unlikely to have been a joke. Basically, believing SA is real and considering this as a joke are almost mutually exclusive and I'll explain why. If KJK was jesting, this would open two paths: 1) They aren't a couple, just friends in a loveline. 2) They are a couple, but have started dating recently, sometime in 2019+. However, no 2 is highly unlikely. It's a naive theory inspired by the many Korean dramas the fans watch. SA are two adults of modern times living and working within a tough, competitive and overly sexualised industry, chances are they wouldn't wait until the recent months/years to begin a relationship. Consequently, if what KJK said was untrue, this would lead to path no 1, aka their not being a couple. The only other option left is that KJK wasn't jesting in the first place, but actually admitted the truth and presented it as a joke. This explanation is reinforced by everything else we've known and noticed about SA throughout the years. To better understand this, consider the alternative, that he had instead answered "Yes, we've recently become a couple". This being false would have made no difference, they could be friends or in a long-term relationship and in both cases it would stand as a joke.

 

I'd like to quote linzer03 here: "SA weren't a loveline until 2019. So it's not a statement based on "RM canon"." She also pointed out that people who aren't comfortable with skits tend to draw inspiration from their actual experiences, thus KJK may have resorted to telling the truth, knowing that most of the audience would treat it as a joke.

Speaking about skits, RM put emphasis on the term in ep 547, but in my opinion the scene lacked the typical role-playing characteristics and, in fact, wasn't much different from any other variety-style romantic teasing we've seen, regardless if the feelings involved were true (LKS/LSB) or fake (Monday Couple). We wouldn't call most of those interactions as "skits". The same cannot be said for ep 548; here we have a skit concept, well defined roles and apparent improvisation according to script. The SA introduction is pretty edited, the segment cuts abruptly to the nuts game, the whole part with KJK wearing the headpiece that reacts to emotional charge is missing. That part ties up well with the idea of KJK (and perhaps SJH) answering to rumours and personal questions. Most of the signing-with-HH segment also feels like role-playing, in which SA engage very casually - something they haven't got us used to. Perhaps the only moment that made an impression on me is KJK's reaction to HH's reveal about the photo in his possession. KJK falters and tries to continue his sentence 3 times. If HH's threat was a joke that KJK didn't like, he could just ask him to behave like he's often done in similar situations. If it was a joke that KJK had no problem playing along with due to the script, why would he flounder instead of delivering the next line, "are you crazy?" or "I want to buy it" ? Therefore, I think SA were prepared for the main concept of their being artists linked through dating rumours under the same agency, but HH's choice to "blackmail" them with real photos elicited more genuine reactions. Noting here that I am only referring to the "loveline" segments. Everything else, from SA laughing and enjoying the games together, to SJH sneakily passing walnuts to KJK (typical behaviour of couples and immediate family), was pretty wholesome.

[[Official] SPARTACE COUPLE KimJongkook-SongJiHyo]

Additionally to SA riding the Nevis swing together because a) YSC and HDH were originally the ones to face the penalty and b) they feel more comfortable enjoying such activities together, another reason might have been the comparison between the two pairs that PDs wanted to highlight and thus make the episode more entertaining; the power couple vs the 2 scaredy cats.

Keep in mind though SA tried the Nevis swing not once, but twice. KJK is wearing two different caps. A blue one the first time.

A black one the second time, that's when they also hold hands tightly.

 

In most of the moments used in the final cut, he's wearing the blue cap. And we can tell that's their first attempt, cause it's when they're asking questions about the ride and everything is explained to them. Considering 1) the 2nd time they took the dive is barely used in the episode - so it's not like something didn't work well the first time and they had to reshoot the scene - as well as 2) SA seem extremely happy during it, not holding onto the ropes anymore but on each other, I'd say it's possible that 2nd time was largely their decision and the hand-holding has nothing to do with the fear of a first-timer, but with sharing the excitement with the person closest to you.

[[Official] SPARTACE COUPLE KimJongkook-SongJiHyo]

Continuing the random observations while waiting for any new content: I recently discussed with fellow Spartacers something I noticed while re-watching the first season of Big Picture (and probably other fans have already pointed out before I joined).

Season 1 is when LKS is being secretly filmed. In one of the scenarios the staff prepared in order to deceive him and record his reactions, a young woman appears pretending to be KJK's friend (changed from girlfriend, which was the initial plan). KJK and HH auditioned three girls in order to cast the most fitting for the role. One of them was a girl called Yu Rina, her actual name. Upon hearing her name, HH turns mischievous but KJK catches immediately on the implication and stops him from further saying anything. They laugh, KJK blurts out some lame excuse to the girl who has no idea what's happening and then starts hitting HH. The most obvious explanation is that the name "Yu Rina" reminded HH of "Chae Rina", with whom KJK maintained his only known among the fans relationship back when he was a Turbo member. We can't easily find photos or articles about them, but from what we have all read, it was an "open secret" at the time and ever since their separation, KJK has never gone public with any of his subsequent relationships. However, to this day, there have been scarce references to her, albeit without citing her name; i.e. in Big Picture's 2nd season, when KJK and HH talk about ex girlfriends and the latter teases the singer about a former lover whom KJK had met on one of his shows (Chae Rina had guested in "I Can See Your Voice" which is co-hosted by KJK) and, more recently, on MUD, implied this time by Kim Hee-Chul.

Anyway, here's the video (S01E79) from the audition in 2017 and the moment that I described above, it lasts less than a minute:

https://www.vlive.tv/video/48971

This whole scene is strikingly similar to how they both behaved in episode 24 of "Big Picture in Vietnam" when HH teases KJK about SJH and the MAMA 2013 Awards, as well as in episode 69 of Big Picture 2 earlier the same year (2018), again while SJH is the topic. Whenever HH's taunting leaks details(?) about SA's relationship - beyond the casual jokes around a love line - KJK reacts the exact same way he does about his actual relationships, like the 7-years relationship he sometimes reminisces about (first part of episode 24) or Chae Rina.

 

Ep 24 (important to remember ; this one comes after S02E69 and HH implies SA are pretty much still together)

https://www.vlive.tv/video/95687/

S02E69

https://www.vlive.tv/video/70265

In comparison with S01E79, we notice:

~ HH becoming playful out of the blue and implying romantic relationships? checked
~ KJK immediately intervening to shush HH? checked

~ KJK forcing himself to laugh while being fired up? checked.
~ KJK trying to mend things using a lame excuse (resto name, harlequin romance)? checked

~ Kap Gin laughing hysterically? checked
~ HH getting slapped on the forehead? checked
~ KJK asking HH if he is crazy/out of his mind as if he revealed something true? checked.

Literally this entire list occurs both in S01E79 and in 2018, in the parts about SJH. The main difference is that, because Spartace have been openly teased on & off RM, HH actually uses her name and mentions specific incidents, which KJK has to deny. Whereas in Chae Rina's case, KJK doesn't have to reply to anything.

Usually, when KJK's name is linked to a girl, he reacts as follows:

1) He smiles/laughs but doesn't say anything or he changes the subject (so the shippers keep saying it's suspicious he didn't deny the rumour).
2) He denies the rumour in a shy or awkward way (so the shippers find his behaviour cute and don't believe him).
3) He calmly or flatly denies it.

He has acted in these ways whenever HJY's name is brought up, the handful of times teased with JSM, in various moments about YEH, during short-lived "flings" with female guests and literally in every love line he has ever been, with SJH included. At points, he may swear if the rest RM members exaggerate their joking, or even appear intimidating (i.e. in YEH's dragged out case). However, to my knowledge, such immediate and intense attack paired with HH's identical way of teasing and KG's reactions have only occured in relation to SJH or his real secrets.

I'm pleased every time HH mentions SA because he looks genuinely happy and supportive, however I know he is a very witty entertainer. Therefore, for long I kept in the back of my mind the possibility HH was just being HH in that BP segment about SJH & MAMA; he may have given us an important SA insight, but it could as well have been an agreed-on moment he and KJK played up for the viewers. Seeing now the strong parallelisms between the SA scenes and the references to KJK's real relationships, makes me think that HH may have actually revealed bits of truth while improvising, that KJK never expected he would bring them up, thus making his alarmed reactions genuine. Because the story with Chae Rina isn't a love line, it isn't something HH and KJK would play up for the viewers, and they seriously acted similarly when mentioning SJH.

 

 

[[Official] SPARTACE COUPLE KimJongkook-SongJiHyo]

Quick throwback time for those who, like me, never noticed these before. All credits go to the Chinese fandom and @snal as indicated on the pics.

Ep 365. We have all watched and revelled in the intimacy SA exhibited during this particular episode. But how many of you caught KJK's reaction to SJH's finger hearts? It's so brief that you may blink and miss it, but it's there. Considering how fast he closes his finger, is this one of those times the body responded before the mind?

 

 

Ep 366. They are flipping their hands in lieu of rock-paper-scissors and those who win after every round touch/pile them up. Apart from KJK, who opts for hand-holding with one specific person. We've discussed before about his instinctive yet unnecessary and a bit possessive gestures, it's an interesting topic.



When the rest win:



When SA:




Also, I've read all the latest posts (interesting points everyone!) and here are my two cents regarding certain topics:

~ Additionally to following PDs' directions, often celebrities have to promote sister/same network shows, there may be such conditions in their contracts. Wondering whether SJH's (and other RM members') guesting on MUD is an indication they are dating or, vice versa, proof they aren't, as they should be avoiding uncomfortable situations, is really just scratching the surface of the matter.

~ The format of MUD requires a set of people - the mothers, the guest and the hosts - to watch scripted segments of certain celebrities' personal lives, emotionally react and comment on them. Imagine if SJH , during her appearance, was like "Yeah, I've seen him exercising while touring with RM" or "Ah, that green drink, yeah it's nasty" or "Sure he has abs, he shows them off in every RM concert and did you forget LKS stripped him once?" etc....Not exactly the entertaining response you expect from a guest now, is it? Even KJK's own mother occasionally feigns surprise despite knowing where her son is at the time of the shooting and which family members he is meeting.

~ KJK has been playing the eligible bachelor for many years, before even RM started, let alone MUD. Ever since he embarked on variety TV, he has always been portrayed as a guy looking for a girlfriend, a notion that intensified the more he aged. His charm even spread overseas in shows like Ding Ge Long Dong Qiang, where he was partnered up with Lynn Hung. Throughout his career he has embraced or just been tossed into love lines, and he always had to maintain the balance between this aspect of his work and his actual romantic relationships. This has been his reality before SJH (or whoever is his current lover anyway) entered his life. Thus, without underestimating the sacrifices and struggles that come with it, I don't think that the impact of the restrictions imposed by MUD has the intensity which fans imagine. If anything, both KJK and SJH appear content with prioritising their jobs.

[[Official] SPARTACE COUPLE KimJongkook-SongJiHyo]

If the HJY/KJK interaction on MUD & RM has made you question whether they are actually attracted to each other, then congratulations, you reacted exactly how variety shows expect you to whenever they introduce a new and scripted loveline, aiming at popularity & awards (and no surprise they got them both). It happened with Monday Couple, KwangMin, ChanMin now, all of KJK's past lovelines in other shows and , honestly? It would have happened with Spartace too if all the evidence we have, had emerged only in the first months of 2019, aka when the closeness of Spartace was officially used for fanservice purposes, and there had been nothing suspicious prior to that, and especially during the Monday Couple era. But no other ship, and certainly not the HJY/KJK one, has an array of interactions to exhibit that consistently expand way beyond the needs of a show. No suspicious outings with KJK that we first learnt from a third party (i.e. compare KJK and JSM openly saying they went out for a coffee along with others during the introductory segment of an RM episode, and thus signalling a new dynamic for the show's needs, with us randomly learning about Spartace hanging out from his niece, Soya, or the tanning salon owner) no unnecessary skinship (i.e. HJY feeding KJK, swimming with him in a pool, shutting his mouth with her palm, all of them actions done openly in front of the cameras, all of them serving a variety show purpose VS KJK secretly massaging the small of SJH's back and many more), no consistent hiding outside of work (i.e. KJK has no problem being featured on HJY's IG, or interacting with JSM's posts, or promoting Jessi's work, but SJH? Let's thank the fans who discovered them dining together or sharing the same flight to NY, which @linzer03 already posted above. Especially after Gary's departure - so basically after the umbrella was no more - they have gradually appeared more cautious.)

HJY's flatly stating last year about KJK; "That's a story of the past. We've already become just close sunbae-hoobae. He's not my type. I like someone who I can be comfortable with" leaving no room for debating exactly because their loveline had completed its circle, should have been enough proof that the two of them are just a business couple. Compare her statement to SJH's words when attempting to deny her romantic involvement with KJK specifically and not the men of RM in total:

~ On MUD when addressing to his mother: "We can't get our feelings involved while we're working together." (So it isn't really about them, but about RM? Also, workplace ethics sound nice and all, but let's do a reality check, half the celebrities and non-celebrities out there have met their significant others in their working environments lol) "And we have to always fight on the show." (lol what? How does this even count as an obstacle? They can maintain their close friendships unscathed by their 'fake game fights' but apparently not a potential romance? She should have stopped at the first half of her explanation.)

~ On Knowing Bros: "We've been working together for 8 years. We did not start dating. That means we're not meant to be." (First sentence is a fact. Second sentence is what remains to be proven. The third sentence, according to this reasoning, is true only if the 2nd one is as well. Now, they would never admit to have started dating, would they? KJK has explicitly said he'll deny everything until he is ready to get married. Most celebrities wouldn't reveal their relationships in a show they are guesting anyway. So her argument here is pointless. It actually bears meaning only when opposed to delusional shippers wishing Spartace would magically start dating now, during their 10th year of their friendship, because if they haven't become a - secret even - couple until now, then yes they probably will never be) "Don't try to tie us together, Jong Kook oppa has his own life, he wouldn't like it either. But what if we date then? This is why I don't want to talk." - "You're the one who said it." - "It's fun." (KJK wouldn't like for his name to be linked to SJH because they lead separate lives, but he would have no problem if they were together? lol KJK wouldn't like the rumours regardless if true or not. Also, have you ever read any reply more ambiguous than this? I understand that they all work in a pretentious industry and they need to provide entertainment, but check out how nicely HJY managed to answer above.)

~ And then there's of course the "we're family" reason. Even though they never use the terms "siblings" or "sister", she has been consistent with this one, I acknowledge it. But it doesn't help this may as well be the most vague and overused excuse in the entire Korean entertainment world. It also so happens to be true, no matter if SA are lovers or friends; they are both members of the greater RM family.

As for SJH's reactions in front of his mother on MUD, let's be clear about something first; If KJK has been in a steady relationship for long , then his mother is likely aware of it. So, when it comes to the episodes on MUD, it isn't really about SJH pretending in front of his mother, but both of them pretending in front of us. It's the audience who needs to be convinced of the bachelor role KJK plays on screen, of his lovelines and everything else. Also, I've said this before as well, his mother may not be a variety show veteran like her son, but no way she is a rookie either. She has appeared in shows and interviews about him ever since he was a member of Turbo, there's literally a recording in their apartment at the time he was taking exams to enter university.

When the fact he moved to a new apartment is mentioned, SJH fakes her reaction. Firstly, it's bad acting. Neither her expression, nor the tone of her voice make her shock natural. But, above all, it's irrational. It has nothing to do with their being a couple. It's impossible she and the rest RM members wouldn't know he moved out for the needs of MUD when a. they work closely together every single week and b. every random fan on the internet knew lol We aren't talking about a personal experience here. The fact she unnecessarily faked her reaction, when all she had to do in order not to sound suspicious was to claim KJK had broken the news to all of them on the RM setting, indicates just how much pressure they have to withstand amidst the loveline rumours and what lengths they are willing to reach in their attempt to keep their lives private. Jang Hyuk had also a similarly illogical reaction to hearing SJH's name on Dragon Club.

SJH's appearance on MUD preceded all of HJY's. I always found it interesting it was SJH the one invited to that one episode whose guest would have to react to KJK showing off his work-out and showering afterwards. When HJY appeared, she was already in a popular loveline with KJK, on their way to become "THE loveline" for SBS that year. In the segment that aired, KJK even chose her over SJH as the closest to his ideal type, because this is MUD and every time there's a concept he needs to serve. Also cause, let's face it, he has never chosen SJH, it's the ongoing rumour he always tries to tone down, that one time long ago when he chose her over the late Sulli, it was due to Sulli being only 18, a little sister basically - and he probably didn't want to repeat that misstep of 2010, when she was barely 16. No wonder why KJK's mother appeared interested in HJY throughout her love story with him on MUD. This is one of the central ideas of the show and they are paid to follow it, she expressed interest even when Ye Ji Won guested, just cause she had been parnered up with her son on "The Producers".

[[Official] SPARTACE COUPLE KimJongkook-SongJiHyo]

I never said his legs are "stretched". "Spread legs" doesn't necessarily mean "straightened", it means he is sitting with his legs apart, bent or not. Moreover, we don't know if his right leg isn't stretched, the photo is not good enough to judge by the shadows. But even if it isn't, she is still standing between his legs, as her foot is in line with his left knee, about same level where the right knee would be bent. Regardless, I'm sure this changes the whole argument . If only one leg is spread, you are allowed to stand so close to your co-worker off camera even though you both feel so genuinely distant. If both are spread, you aren't.

 

[[Official] SPARTACE COUPLE KimJongkook-SongJiHyo]

Now that suspecting the person in KJK's IG has been SJH isn't proven delusional, can we all stop getting swayed either by over-worried Spartacers fantasizing of potential break-ups every two months or delirious antis lecturing us about how they'd stop romantically supporting their ship if they ever felt they grew distant? Unless you all unnecessarily stand between your - recently appointed - ex lover's spread legs during breaks from filming lol Point is....lovers or friends, SA are fine behind the cameras, and if there ever was a change in their relationship for better or for worse, it couldn't have been recent. Let's not keep mixing up how they handle their public image with their actual relationship. Tiny's unwavering support towards both should have been enough of a clue.
 

 

[[Official] SPARTACE COUPLE KimJongkook-SongJiHyo]

(I don't know if anyone has the patience to read this, but if you do, trust me, you won't be disappointed )

Welcome back everyone who hasn't posted in a while! Some of us haven't been up to date with all the episodes, hence you may see us less around here these days. It's better to be aware of everything going on before sharing detailed opinions. In my case, it began with the holidays, I kinda lost my pace in watching RM and this has continued to this day due to real life & work. I am trying to catch up again (I watched the latest episode the other night, but still missing episodes 486, 487 etc. for example) and I know others are in my shoes too.

Regarding the two recurring topics these days, A. YJS's stance and B. Spartace on screen distance, I'd like to say the following:

A. YJS's stance
 

Spoiler

I am with the (apparently) minority that will never refer to any of the rest cast members as "SA president" or "ultimate SA worshipper" etc. I know these are titles given in a light-hearted manner, however their repetition further strengthens the notion that these people will primarily support one ship and their words will always have a deeper meaning. And such a notion in a variety show is erroneous by default. In reality, YJS has always made comments that seem contradictory. He would call HJY as KJK's woman then turn around and say they shouldn't date. Likewise now, he says how shocked he'll be if KJK-JSM get married while there's a loveline with YSC, whereas in a previous episode he had flatly said KJK is just an oppa to JSM while YSC is love. Even during the MC era, people kept emphasizing how he wasn't supportive of KG and SJH, but in fact he was playing along the PDs' concept which wanted KG in a loop of unrequited love. SA fans seem to think YJS was giving them some insider's scoop (lol), but that loveline had a different dynamic from the beginning. SJH would often reject KG's advances and then surprise the audience with her own initiatives, with the rest of the cast often doubting MC's chances in love. And even then there were many times YJS teased them romantically (i.e. telling SJH to sit next to her Monday boyfriend etc.). The truth is that YJS is the first and most dependable member when it comes to supporting & expanding the scripted concepts for the show's needs. If the pillar of the RM doesn't do it, then who will? These days that RM is promoting the KJK-YSC-JSM dynamic, you will see more scenes built around them and, consequently, YJS teasing them more. Do I really need to analyse how staged the whole introductory segment in episode 483 was? PDs having KJK's comments already set for showing, SJH faking typical variety-style surprise, YJS isn't even active on IG lol But regardless of this, the point is, if fans keep deifying YJS (the man who insisted for 10 years straight that KJK was in love with YEH for crying out loud) and considering his jokes always bear a special meaning, then sooner or later, this will backfire on them. Because it is a variety show. If YJS's joking remarks and several team-ups are enough for some people to distinguish some "vibe" between KJK and JSM, then what about all the rest times YJS noticed something between KJK and another female? This is such a biased perspective, completely ignoring the bulk of evidence for 10 years straight, just to romanticise crumbs lol For SA alone, these moments are multiplied by a dozen. You are all falling in the same trap. Similarly, HH has teased KJK with every other female guest that came to RM.

Am I suggesting that we should then collectively disregard what YJS says for the ships and, especially, SA? No, not at all. We don't have the luxury to do this anyway, since we rely on limited knowledge to begin with. But instead of blindly accepting everything as suspicious, try to think of each separate instance in context: Is there a variety-related reason for YJS (or anyone) to act like this? When did it happen, during the scripted introductions or sneakily at a random point in the episode? What does this same member say in shows/places unrelated to SBS? Last year, during the SA loveline in winter, YJS showed his support in a number of times. Openly, without inhibitions, without indirectly trying to accomodate another loveline. And yet, IMO, none of them can even be compared to what YJS spontaneously suggested back in episode 332, aka his certainty that SA should get married. A certainty that jumped out of nowhere, that couldn't be justified by variety show reasons since it had no follow-up in the episodes that came after. But, most importantly, a certainty stated when the show itself had no future. It was about to complete its cycle in early 2017, there was no obvious reason for him to tease a fake loveline just before the end. Also, the deals with sponsors and advertisers aren't made from one episode to another. In the West, the shows have sweeps to determine ratings that decide the ad prices. There's a short period where shows are pitched to the advertisers in order to attract revenue, then they have sweeps where they try to maximize ratings so they can charge more. Low ratings in sweeps are bad for a show. Even if this isn't the exact method followed in Korea, still commercials aren't arranged weekly. So not even the ratings of these last episodes mattered as much, in other words YJS, and by extension RM, had nothing to gain by teasing Spartace. Other examples of YJS's behaviour that should not be taken lightly are when he pushed SJH on KJK's back, all the time knowingly grinning at her, which was such a sneaky move that we had to play it in slow motion, as well as when he purposefully mixed up SA brothers' names long before their loveline, as if an experienced MC like himself would ever do this accidentally and not as an inside joke. Similarly again, in HH's case, forget for a minute all the times he teased SA or other ships on the show, forget even his remarks on MUD because this is again an SBS programme, they will all cross-promote the same dynamics. Instead, consider what he has been blurting out on Big Picture from time to time, a show unrelated to big channels. Consider what he posted on his personal account back when he wanted to promote his wife's new single, whose photo and with what hashtags. And yes, even with all these hints, we still should acknowledge that we can't know the true nature of a ship's bond. Imagine being sure about it with way less lol.

B. SA alleged distance
 

Spoiler

 

Let's clarify something from the beginning; everything happening on the show is, ultimately, an editorial decision. From the members' seats and groups to the concepts and, occasionally, game winners, everything comes down to the PDs and their team. So if you think SA appear distant on screen, then be sure it isn't something they deliberately decided on their own, and it's either a change they discussed and put in effect along with the PDs, or they simply follow directions. That alone should be enough for people to stop thinking that any recent negative shift in their relationship would immediately reflect on their work as if both of them are completely unprofessional, but since fans take SA for their next-door teenagers that can't contain their emotions, let's crack this down.

It's true that in the latest episodes their on screen interaction has been minimal. Most notably, the conditions that would generate interaction seem to be missing; PDs keep assigning them to different teams, they are set to stand apart during the opening segments, their scenes are getting edited out etc. There can be various explanations for this situation:
a. The PD (back in May, when the first drought started) and the show's main loveline changed and between KJK playing the third wheel to ChanMin and being available for a match-up with the guests, there was little room for SA. There has never been a period on RM with two strong lovelines evolving at the same time.

b. The SA loveline was met with mixed reactions and whereas a fake loveline would be re-structured and get another shot, there was no profitable reason for the PDs to keep testing a real relationship.
c. SA would rather to tone down their loveline as they enter the final months before their official dating/marriage announcement, which makes total sense as marketing their relationship more than necessary would only create issues, so we still get glimpses of romantic SA (i.e. this year's fortune telling) but not like before.
d. SA are friends and either of them is getting married to someone else. At some point this was going to be clarified, even if indirectly. 
e. SJH's new romantic TV drama as well as KJK's album preparations require for them to keep it low for a while etc.

Still, these and other reasons will never be satisfying for us because we are lacking all the important details and, even when we base our assumptions strictly on facts, we will still be driven by our hope for more SA.

However, none of the aforementioned possible explanations involves a recent change in their actual, behind the cameras, relationship, whether it is romance or friendship. All of them are linked to their public image and their show(s) needs. Let's ignore all these facts and arguments, and assume that indeed something recently "broke" in SA which resulted in real emotional & physical distance.  Some of the episodes that are used as "proof" for this claim due to SA's limited interaction (namely 483, 484 and 487) were shot in mid December, only two weeks after the fanmeet in Vietnam. Ask yourselves, what could have possibly changed in such a short time so drastically that SA went from being inseparable and at total ease with each other to being so distant that fans caught it? Keep in mind that we're talking about a friendship that has been through a lot for a decade and which both cherish deeply, as described on Pajama Friends and other occasions. Keep also in mind that on the one hand we have multiple angles of unedited footage onstage and backstage (Vietnam), and on the other hand we have thoroughly edited, single POV 1 1/5 hours footage when the actual filming lasts a day (RM episode). And somehow there are SA fans who overlook the real events in Vietnam, yet easily believe in the scenes of RM episodes, and actually not even in the scenes themselves, but in their own interpretations of them.

In ep 483, filmed on 16/12, there's a brief background moment of SJH most likely taking a photo of KJK's gangster disguise. Obviously we won't find this photo on either KJK's or SJH's social media, because this is how they don't fuel the rumours surrounding their relationship,  KJK would have been caught long by now if he was interacting with his girlfriends online where everyone could see.  In ep 487, filmed only the following day, 17/12, we notice KJK glancing at the floor while SJH's smoking habit is mentioned. So ask yourselves again, if his looking down is a genuine reaction that indicates some sort of a rift between them, what exactly was SJH thinking capturing him on her mobile the previous day? Do you all take pics of the colleagues you are uncomfortable with? lol Now, I am not denying there's on screen stiffness/nervousness between them, which is more apparent in KJK's case as he always chimes in to say something about the rest cast members without favoritism or discrimination. Kjk&Sjh did a nice job summing these moments up in their post. Please notice something though, all 3 of them (eps 481, 487, 488) take place during planned segments. Discussion points in introductions are all agreed on beforehand. And once they gather up for the closing, they already know they'll talk about each episode's winner(s). In contrast, when the situation isn't planned, we still see them being expressive towards each other. Episode 485, filmed on 31/12, is a recent example, because they don't know who the deities of death are and their reaction to their win is not only genuine, but also warm and typical of the way they normally treat each other. Again, hardly a way you behave towards someone you're supposedly distant with, the group hug that follows would have sufficed.

That moment in episode 485 is important for two more reasons. 1) First of all, the intimacy. They interlock hands in the same way they have been doing for years. Their grip is tight and prolonged. KJK aims only at her hands, he literally pushes YSC's hand out of the way, when he could have celebrated with both of them. The scene is almost identical to their celebration in ep 461. Clips under spoiler for comparison.
 

Spoiler

 

 

Notice how SJH fakes the exact same punch towards him? Another indication that whatever their relationship is, it has remained unchanged, maintaining all its mannerisms. Also, such playful "punches" are often romantic gestures in couples where the one party is visibly stronger than the other. I used to tease like this an ex boyfriend of mine who, like KJK, was robust and good in martial arts. I am not suggesting that such gestures are exclusive to couples, but personally at least, I've never done anything similar to my close male friends.
2) Secondly, this moment reveals that SA scenes are indeed edited out. SJH is heard apologising to KJK, while he replies that it's fine. That's a clear indication she had confronted him with her suspicions during the game, yet we never got the chance to see that scene. This is why we are often left with the impression they don't interact, as if that's possible during shootings that last whole days. There's no need to speak hypothetically; ep 472, we get photos and fancams showing SA walking down the Anyang streets together, separately from the rest, but this is never shown in the actual episode. And, with the exception of their loveline days, this has always been the case. I watched relatively recently the legendary episodes in Australia, shot back in 2014. Anyone who watches ep 189 will notice nothing special in regards to SA. And yet they were tightly hugging in the middle of the street as shown in fan photos shared online. What's more eye-opening about this episode is that it's built in such a way that the viewer believes SJH never met any of them until the final game, and that they weren't really aware of her presence near them while she was supposedly hiding. We aren't talking about scenes that were edited out here, but about a clear manipulation of the games, a straight up lie. At this point it's also worth mentioning that in the past SA were often in different teams, they weren't necessarily standing close during the openings and there were many episodes with limited aired SA interaction. Yet, hardly anyone is suggesting that SA may have been at odds with each other back then. If anything, most Spartace shippers, who aren't naive to think that SA have kept romantic feelings bottled up for almost ten years, will tell you that there was probably something between them at the time.

But perhaps the distance has settled between them for a while. Some claims will trace it in earlier episodes during fall, or even last spring. Let's take the second option first. You all probably remember the fears that something is not "right" about SA, mostly deriving from the fact that the members stopped teasing them on a weekly basis. Fears that continued for long. Putting aside the return of JCM PD - which is a development that can cause all sorts of changes - , the fans' worries were quelled only when the restaurant owner of an RM setting reassured them that SA are indeed very comfortable around each other during the shootings. But let's say we had never come across such a valuable insight; what was it that we really watched during the RM episodes? Ep 455, filmed 27/5, SJH invades KJK's personal space while holding both of his forearms in a gesture that brims with couple vibes. Do a test, show the moment to any of your friends that isn't an RM fan (hence completely unbiased) and ask them if lovers behave this way. Note that this is a very brief scene, unrelated to lovelines and totally blurred, exactly cause it was never meant to be used for the show. Then, June 2019, SJH is seen swaying to "Loveable" in Pohang, while waiting for her turn to join KJK on stage under the pouring rain. Notice how I'm not focusing on their performance, even though I could, but on her behaviour backstage. Why would any woman who isn't close to him anymore enjoy the moment so fully instead of restricting herself to business? There are other examples as well, too many to mention.

Now, let's talk about fall. In ep 471, filmed 23/9, KJK is exhibiting a behaviour comparable to the one in Kjk&Sjh's video. He is somewhat humourless when SJH is reading the poem dedicated to him, he looks nervous and keeps drinking water. If we add to this all the rest times he appears serious around SJH - with most recent instance the fortune telling part - , the question comes up whether they have started treating their relationship seriously and with reservation when on camera or if this extends to their time behind the camera too, insinuating problems. Therefore, let's see what else we noticed during autumn; ep 470, filmed 9/9, KJK and SJH enter together the lobster fishing site. He is clearly holding her. The cameras lining up in front of them aren't pointed at them, perhaps this is the reason they are so casually walking in. Yet the place is still full of cameras (we catch a blurred sight of them from the ones on the other side of the pool) so they separate as soon as they see them. Why would a couple that recently broke up or two friends who are facing issues in their friendship sustain such proximity when not on camera? Ep 473, filmed 30/9, SJH naturally resting on KJK's thigh, in a way more intimate manner than when KJK is placing his arm on others' shoulders (which he has literally done to everyone). Ep 478, filmed 11/11, do I really need to explain this hug? How often do you see him treating other women with such affection just because he eliminated them in a game? Even more so, why two people who are genuinely distant behave like this? All these moments are unnecessary, remember they are not in an active loveline at this point, all they have to do to remain professional is joke, cooperate in some games and celebrate together if they win. That's it.

 

And then there's Tiny and his frequent SJH updates, which haven't ceased all these past months. No matter his good relations with SJH, why would he continue sharing her photos, making tik-tok videos about her, commenting his preference for this angry bird, if she and his best friend were going through a difficult phase? If people start using common sense and stop reading fan fiction theories, they'll see that some worries simply lack substantial info to back them up. Obviously, it's possible from time to time for a member's sour mood to reach the audience, despite the cast's professionalism and the PDs' editing skills. We witnessed such an occasion back in ep 368, with SA hitting/glaring on the sidelines. It was an argument with strong couple vibes, unless you all, when angry, usually kick the 40 yo friends you didn't grow up with but met in a working environment. Therefore, I wouldn't put it completely past SA to go through brief cooling off periods. Nevertheless, that's essentially different from the rift that some SA fans fear has been created.

Eventually, we're back on square one; if their relationship behind the camera, romantic or not, is stable, what exactly prompts the ostensible reservation during the episodes? It has been already mentioned this could largely be the outcome of editorial purposes. But let's also consider the scenario it has primarily been SA's decision. In case SA are dating, this is actually a very responsible way of handling a relationship that experienced the pros and cons of a loveline and is slowly heading to the altar. It may be temporary, but KJK is giving the impression of trying to moderate his "king of lovelines" image. It has been hinted in his Real Kook tour, in ep 486 and in spite of the teasing with KHN, in the recent and very scripted fortune telling etc. Meanwhile, SJH's prediction mentions a spouse, KJK is confirmed as a candidate for a 4th year in row (albeit in way more lowkey manner) and SJH is actually taking English lessons, something that may benefit her career, but at the same time, may also concern more travelling and KJK/bf, considering the timing. The last thing that both would need right now is weekly gossip on their loveline. The seed has already been planted the previous years so that hardly anyone will actually be surprised they are together whenever they announce. In case SA are friends, then sooner or later they would reach this "clarification" point on camera (which is very ambiguous to be honest, but anyway) and, well, this is also a prospect we should never ignore. It's not improbable that, whatever they had, ended long ago, hence they had all the time to come to terms with it and still maintain their bond. However, in this case, the question remains; when did their relationship shift exactly? Because the further back we go, the stronger evidence that nothing changed we discover.

 

All in all, our fandom must be prepared for a potential continuation of the SA drought, as well as KJK playing the chaperone for ChanMin around SBS, or getting paired with every other guest. This is how RM has always operated, the SA fandom has been through the MC era, the Chen Bolin era, blind dates, the HJY era, now this odd triangle era, as well as every resurgence of the YEH loveline and every love firework with the occasional guest. Sooner or later, SA scenes always sprout, it has been happening for 9 consecutive years. The Manila fanmeet would have been a good opportunity for more SA unedited moments, but of course everyone's health is and should be the priority. Let's hope the world deals with this new reality the best way possible.

 

 

Ep 483 Movie Theory

 

Spoiler

 

I'm going to finish this - tiring I know - essay with a slightly stretched theory of my own. Because I am entering heavy guesswork territory now, please solely consider the following as some food for thought.

~ When the members play the 1st movie game, the only time SJH is close to the correct answer is when she guesses the movie is Batman, but can't remember the exact title. All her other attempts are straight up wrong. She gets the clue to find the movie when KJK mentions that the ceiling in the movie looks very familiar. Talking to her team, she uses the ceiling clue to theorise why her guess about Batman may be right.
~ Haha who is in KJK's team, is better at movie games and is eventually the one that guesses the correct Batman title, doesn't get the hint at that point even though he too agrees it's familiar. So it isn't something characteristic that everyone would automatically make a connection to.

~ Meanwhile the Batman movie and the Matrix are the only two times during the game that KJK is doing very well. He figures out the Matrix, but he is also close to figuring out Batman, he first makes an attempt thinking it may be Oldboy and then mentions the ceiling. All his other attempts for the rest movies are also plain wrong. 

~ The Dark Knight was at theatres in 2008, I doubt that anyone would remember the freaking ceiling in the underground lair after having watched the movie a decade ago lol You either have to be a fanboy, or have watched it more recently, perhaps at the same time with those focusing on the same clues as you do.
~ KJK played Joker in the clip shown in his own concert, about "real Kook", and even though it was his re-enacting a scene from the latest movie with Phoenix, it could have been a chance to re-watch the Dark Knight too. A lot of people were comparing the new Joker to Ledger's iconic one.
~ It's the Batman we're talking about, I feel that most women already in a relationship would watch it with their boyfriends. Also SJH doesn't seem to be a fan, she remembered the place in the movie, but couldn't name one Batman title, even the wrong one. It's actually YJS who specifies the title, albeit he isn't correct.

I acknowledge this theory is a bit far-fetched. Another possible explanation is that the whole game was staged, so that YSC and LKS could be hitting each other in turns lol But I feel that most games are organic, they may give them certain directions or change the outcome if need be, but they generally let them play. Moreover, we can't be sure these were the only times KJK and SJH guessed something right, perhaps other correct attempts were edited out. But if they were, I find it lowkey interesting that the only time she was right about something was when both KJK and she focused on the same detail. 

 

 

[[Official] SPARTACE COUPLE KimJongkook-SongJiHyo]

RM in Manila in February.
 

 

[[Official] SPARTACE COUPLE KimJongkook-SongJiHyo]

Leaving this here too. It's easy for details like this one to be missed if people get absorbed by the loveline jokes. Fans rush to worry Spartace might actually be facing a problem in their relationship/friendship, just because they aren't always standing together or playing in the same team in a heavily edited show. Today's episode was filmed only two weeks after the fanmeet in Vietnam, where you all saw in unedited videos how close they were.

 

 

[[Official] SPARTACE COUPLE KimJongkook-SongJiHyo]

If we look beyond the scripted RM introductions that include the typical variety-style teasing among the members, we'll see that:

 

a) Similar nonverbal gestures...

 

b) Best friend always showing his preferences (photo cr. @jkt1ny)...
 

...indicate which ones actually share a special bond when the lights fade out.

 

 

On 12/28/2019 at 9:16 AM, Bagelmaster said:

They're all celebrities. They have a busy schedule. Though I believe they come to support him, I can't help but suspect it was maybe set up a bit. It's hard to believe that they were all free. Especially the appearance of YJS. He's a busy man, I'm surprised to see him. I don't know though.

Additionally to busy schedules etc., people forget that it is common practice for a show's cast to support sister shows in the same channel. It's often part of their contracts. They get paid. That MUD appearance was bottomline business no matter how we look at it. The entire place was loaded with cameras and the episodes are planned long before the actual shooting.

Generally speaking, I think fans pay too much attention on who's guesting each time in KJK's concerts. SJH not guesting this year like in the past, automatically leads us to theorise on why she couldn't attend. Let's invert the question, how often do we see KJK's friends, co-workers and family attending these events without their being special guests? Not often. Does that mean they only seldom support him? That unless they collaborate with him on stage or the camera zooms on their faces in the audience, they aren't around, especially during his milestones? It doesn't make much sense.

[[Official] SPARTACE COUPLE KimJongkook-SongJiHyo]

I'd like to momentarily rewind the discussion to...Rewind (yeah, bad pun) and @kookiemongg's post. Blame the length of my previous post for not including this part. So, when I first saw KJK (twice) mentioning SJH's name out of the blue on Rewind (aka in a show unrelated to RM), I wanted to make sure our fandom wasn't viewing the whole moment out of context. Therefore, I had to ask if the game they were playing was related to guessing names based on given descriptions. It was very pleasant to hear that the purpose of the game (three teams solving three cases) was irrelevant and that neither KJK, nor anyone else spelt other names, additionally to SJH's. So, basically, KJK softly mentioned her name just because a random description reminded him of her, no one asked him about her, no game rules prompted him to do so, none of the rest cast members followed him and he didn't really mention any others either. If this isn't an adorable little moment, I don't know what it is.

Also, tonight it was brought to my attention (thanks kookiemongg) that SA had danced to "Bboom Bboom" not only in Hong Kong last winter, but also in Taipei in 2018. For anyone who, like me, had never watched that performance and was only aware of the spicy backhug in Hong Kong, here's a video from a not-so-favourable-for-SA angle, uploaded by TING JEN. If anyone of you has a better source for the Taipei fanmeet performance, please do share it here.
 

Regarding the episode with Ryan Reynolds, you may have seen others remarking how SA were standing close to each other for a good portion of the episode. Contrary to other episodes, I think it's particularly worth noting their casual proximity this time because the Hollywood celebrities had fully taken the spotlight. With the exception of their probably pre-arranged seats upon introducing the actors, I believe in every other moment it's just SA naturally/subconsciously standing side by side. They don't follow any line up, apart from KJK occasionally standing out as the head of his team (and you will notice him in one of those moments walking away from his spot next to SJH to take the lead), they are pretty mixed up. And it makes sense, as their entire focus is on their special and very famous guests whose reactions they must follow/highlight, all the RM members are more free to mingle and behave without a strict order in mind. Proof that even Hwang Bo-ra stands in the background at points even though she is also a guest, or that JSM doesn't interact too much with YSC, despite their being on the same team and in a loveline. This results in SA more comfortably standing side by side, without anything game-related inciting them to be together. They just naturally are.

 

 

8 hours ago, elzy said:

Well, in recent RM episode, when everyone guessed JH as the ghost, it's interesting that LKS asked her to look at JK's eyes. Okay, to be fair, JK is known as a fiercest one to digging a liar's hole, but the point is how they both only laugh and cannot even stare at each other's eyes.

Additionally to what you're pointing out, I feel that this moment may have been a slight nod to how KJK supposedly gets infuriated with people closest to him who, however, end up being liars and betrayers, especially after Haha's sneaky actions. In that sense, it's interesting how LKS asks for SJH to look KJK in the eye - I don't think it would have the same effect asking YJS for example who is KJK's "rival" anyway, no matter how fiercely KJK stared at him. It's like LKS expects SJH not being able to lie to KJK both cause he has this brutal look and cause it's him, the one that will be the angriest if betrayed by her.

There are a few topics regarding older episodes I wanted but never managed to discuss - i.e. I disagree that in the episode 474 KJK caressed SJH solely to complete his mission - but I might end up typing for hours again, so I'll leave such a post for the near future.

Meanwhile, let's all wish KJK good luck as he continues his concert schedule. It was nice seeing both YSC and JSM supporting and performing with him, something common among RM members (remember SJH has done so in the past too and their gestures weren't choreographed for the specific needs of a song but spontaneous ) and hopefully he will manage to attend the SBS awards as well.

[[Official] SPARTACE COUPLE KimJongkook-SongJiHyo]

Ok excuse the tone, I'm gonna be blunt. If someone is a Spartacer (so by default not blinded with bias over "rival" ships) and yet the fact that recently JSM accidentally, clearly implied for the 2nd time that KJK is not single, can't convince them that she is not romantically involved with him - yet delusional overanalysis of some moments here and there can do the opposite - then I don't know what will. Her recent "slip" is the tombstone on any insecurity-fuelled worries they might be something more than colleagues:

• As people have already mentioned, it's the 2nd time she does it, which is a clear hint KJK has been off the singles' market and in a steady relationship for a while, and certainly at the time of episode 358, a time JSM wasn't even good friends with the old cast and was still trying to adjust.
   
• She can't have exposed her own relationship, and if anyone thinks that, then I'm surprised they consider such a brilliant young lady as a total idiot. She can't have forgotten her own boyfriend's love status must remain a secret during a moment she initiated herself - she wasn't rushing to react to anything, she brought up the explanation regarding the loveline with YSC herself. It wasn't intentional foreshadowing of anything that involves her either, it wasn't a scene to tease KJK and her, it was a slip and JSJ's reaction verifies it.

I had written something relevant on twitter a few weeks ago, so I might as well repeat and expand it here. Regarding Spartace, they've admitted it themselves they are close, their friends said they are close, KJK's family said they are close, they've been caught tanning together, dining together, flying in secret together, spending time in RM breaks together, they went through a whole firing incident together. And yet somehow  a few jokes openly on social media, a business appearance in a concert during a staged show (MUD) with full camera coverage, and showing support in movie premieres, aka a common practice for all celebrities, are considered the real relationship with Spartace being the hoax? Please, don't make me count in JSM-KJK just standing side by side or occasionally talking in the background as evidence, not only does JSM do the same with others too, but the number of same insignificant moments for SA is multiple.

As for the so called SA drought, I really think those first months of 2019 simply spoiled the shipdom. Since I only discovered RM this year, I am still in the process of watching older episodes and in many of them Spartace didn't interact much. Moreover, it was only recently that we got:

 

1) The intimate SA hug in ep.478, which cannot be compared to any other pat on the back / side-hug KJK has shared with any other female on RM, guest or not, hugs that in all cases were either celebratory (team wins, end of a hard/collective task, i.e. dance segment in Seoul fanmeet) or directly game induced. And if anyone tries to imply that it was a scripted scene aimed at the upcoming fanmeet, please do your brains a favour and save them the pointless effort. KJK has consistently been quelling SJH's reactions using his body language, it isn't a new practice. At least two of those instances, which are almost identical to the recent SA hug, took place when Gary was still in the show and there was neither a SA loveline, nor a big enough fanbase to please. That entire SA moment, which could have ended in the first side embrace with everyone still flying over the moon, instead continued showcasing special intimacy, is a prime example of natural SA interactions routinely getting edited out. The only thing that changed was that, this time, the PDs - for show/SA/both related reasons - allowed it to stay.

2) Their closeness during the Vietnam fanmeet. From KJK's picking up her mic despite his back problems to placing a hand on her back as they knelt before the audience, the moments are too many to be ignored. Again, if anyone is going to suggest that everything has only been fan service, I'll have to counter-suggest a relaxed stroll out in the fresh air, cause bias or insecurity have clogged their memory. Spartace has been recorded dancing together, embracing both while performing and when the lights are dying out, whispering, assisting each other and in various other ways interacting during fanmeets, ever since SJH started joining the team abroad, back in good ol' 2013. Not even the show's official loveline and audiences craving for Monday Couple's duet prevented them from connecting on and off stage. What always varied was the number of those moments in each event, never their existence or their quality. In fact, the main event where they barely interacted when strictly on stage,  has been the Seoul one and it doesn't take a genius to speculate the possible reasons. One of them is definitely their predetermined placements during the dancing & sitting segments. If RM wanted to promote SA as a loveline in Vietnam, all they had to do was to ask SA to sustain one single embrace while performing and not to replace KJK with LKS in "Bboom bboom". These would have been enough to electrify the Vietnamese fans for days without crossing any lines. Having us zooming in the blurry backstage entrance to detect their unnecessary hand holding (and I'm referring to their touching before his pulling her so the dancers would pass through - even though this also lasted more than simply notifying a friend oblivious to people approaching usually requires) or watching the same brief scene over and over from different angles in order to confirm KJK indeed momentarily held her while singing Only One For Me, are certainly not how you do fan service. When it comes to loveline parts, you don't blink and miss them.

Speaking of this scene, it isn't the first time SA make a connection during the exact same lyric. When this happened at the Jakarta fanmeet, I thought of it as an interesting detail, yet I still tucked it away; in a group of people standing and singing a love song, casual glances easily transform to suspicious stares while the shipping googles are on. However, such a precise repetition cannot be ruled a coincidence. Same lyrics, he holds her, they lock gazes, all of them done pretty deliberately. I read the opinion that wants KJK pulling SJH so she wouldn't walk near the edge and I'm wondering if people habitually forget their glasses on their nightstands. She wasn't terribly close to the edge - remember most of these videos are shot from afar, if you can clearly see space between her and the end of the stage from that distance, it's probably wider from up close - nor she was far off the cast forming a line (hardly the case either, they spread a second later). What's particularly laughable with naysayers brushing the moment off as protective KJK bringing SJH back on track is that this same explanation they use comprises the perfect pro-SA argument, since it portrays an unreasonably protective-controlling KJK who behaves this way solely around SJH. You know, just how a worried-over-nothing boyfriend would.

So, I don't know, I guess some fans may choose to ignore all of the above + the rest revealing moments we got this year and have nothing to do with a loveline (i.e. SA lying down together and face-to-face, in a strikingly different position than everyone else around the table, during the cast's break) + the over 1000 pages of discussions and evidence just on this thread. Instead they can choose to fret over ludicrous theories about how KJK lately wears colourful sweaters, which somehow subsequently leads to his dating a new girl/JSM, even though KJK has never been dressed exclusively in black and grey and any objective fan who has been watching him throughout all 9 years of RM can attest that. Mind you, this is what impulsively believing in the concepts conned for the needs of MUD and his loveline with HJY has resulted in. Or unrealistic arguments about how KJK promoting ChanMin actually harbours jealousy (as if there's anything to be jealous of in a lighthearted loveline aiming at awards), despite the fact that every cast member is pushing them as instructed, erasing any supposed link to KJK or whatsoever. Then again, there are a bunch of SA IG/twitter accounts that follow the same immature mentality and allege that KJK gets jealous over SJH every other episode lol Far-fetched theories about JSM asking for KJK's confession through her song, although she could literally be addressing to any man she knows (assuming she had someone in mind and the whole song wasn't simply devised to fit her RM role lol) feebly endorsed by another set up moment on MUD? I can also jump over lakes, mountains and reach a similar conclusion that SJH being given lyrics about alcohol & crossing lines confirms Haha's story. The idea that the RM members wouldn't just carelessly leave clues for the fans to decipher during the most stressful fanmeet of all is so unattainably wild, I understand. Wishful thinking over JSM's colourful nails referring to KJK's kiss scene in a show broadcast 4 whole years ago? Sure, perhaps his black toe-nails was a difficult sight to gulp down.

I can do this all day. My point is....just like others before me have advised, if people can't handle the theories prevalent in other shipdoms, then simply stop venturing into their fields. I'm all for being open-minded and examining opinions coming from different shippers, and I'll be among the first who'll acknowledge evidence that may not favour SA, but not at the expense of objectivity. I don't mind people expressing their doubts and fears here, I don't like SA fans living in bubbles (theirs or others'). There has to be some basic reasoning though we can controvert, otherwise the flow of the thread gets disrupted. If anyone has legitimate worries and is unable to structure them in a way that won't bring down the mood of others, you can always private message some of us. I, at least, am relatively new so I haven't had my share in repeating pro-SA arguments for years. 

I'm not done lol. There are two more posts I want to address, but because this is already a sheet of words, I'll be using spoiler tags. 
 

Spoiler

There was a post referring to SJH and JIW wearing clothes from the same brand, Kodak. Because Spartacers and lurkers may have read the post before it was removed, Kodak recently released a new clothes line and various celebrities have been promoting them https://store.musinsa.com/app/brand/celeb_list/kodak  Both SJH and JIW made sure to show off the brand to the camera, JIW even used the company's hashtag. There's nothing suspicious about that.

The second one is Tanya's post. I found three fallacies I would like to kindly point out. This isn't a reply to Tanya as she already clarified she isn't overly concerned with other ships, but some arguments for anyone that might be sharing the same POV:

 

Spoiler

1. As already pointed out, there has been no KJK-JSM loveline. Random teasing remarks by the cast here and there exist pre-2019 as well, it isn't a steady development which would support the loveline theory. As long as KJK maintains the single status, he will always be jokingly linked to cast members and guests. But not only there has been no consistency in Kookmin (neither the cast, nor the production ever followed through) but also KJK-JSM have always been portrayed as siblings (KM siblings, Yondu siblings etc). KJK specifically called her a sister additionally to "family" which he uses for the whole cast. In contrast, he only used the latter for SJH, while the show never ever labelled them as siblings, something they could have easily done during the Monday couple era. KM dancing segment and the SBS video featuring their chemistry  have been the only legitimate chance for introducing a KM loveline, but they had no continuation and weren't highlighted romantically. Obviously we don't know what will happen in future episodes, whether KJK will be thrown in another fake triangle but this time with YSC and JSM, but until this becomes a recurring theme, there is no loveline. It's important when making a point (i.e. on how there's no Kookmin relationship as JSM's feelings may have been turned down),  not to take for granted an unproven assumption (i.e. the KM loveline) and build our arguments on it.

2. To assume that JSM instead of focusing on her work, prioritises and implicates her supposed fling with a fellow cast member in a song written for that same work, while said cast member casually takes the bait and responds (positively or negatively, it doesn't matter) is basically equal to treating RM members as confused lovestruck teenagers. It's the exact same perspective that pictures an emotionally driven SJH saying goodbye to KJK through her poem, as if two grown up professionals have any reason to expose their break-up in public, or a conflicted KJK (and, vice versa, SJH) still waiting to make a move on the woman he desires, due to shyness/work complications/former lovers/family labelling etc. I can't stretch this enough, KJK, SJH and the rest aren't starring in a tumultuous chick flick.

3. Any issues in JSM's personal life have no direct impact on her role in the lovelines of the show. She isn't the one who calls the shots, when and how a new RM romance gets introduced doesn't correlate with the ups and downs of her love life. KJK and SJH, both longtime members and acclaimed in their fields, had no saying in their very firing, it's absurd to think that the PDs invented a new loveline to accomodate a heartbreak. Even when the members have a personal gain out of an RM concept (i.e. Spartace slowly easing the fanbase into the idea of their relationship) still it isn't their decision, they are bound by contracts and are following PDs' instructions.

This is why I avoid commenting sometimes. There's just so much to say in regards to SA and RM, that I don't know when to place a fullstop.

[[Official] SPARTACE COUPLE KimJongkook-SongJiHyo]

A more detailed Spartace mirroring compilation video, this time by lemon c.
 

 

[[Official] SPARTACE COUPLE KimJongkook-SongJiHyo]

Here's KJK being his usual self: He helps SJH take her place in the line (remember he has this habit of physically directing her steps, even during other times when it was not necessary), then he side-hugs her for the kneeling part.

 

 

ETA: Another, closer look at the same scene.
 

 

[[Official] SPARTACE COUPLE KimJongkook-SongJiHyo]

I really think this moment is even better because it takes place at the backstage entrance, when both of them are away from the spotlight. Haha is briefly sidehugging SJH while they walk away and it looks like he does it in order to tell her something, but it's eventually KJK who holds her hand the moment she approaches him (or maybe her wrist, because she must have been holding her mic). A moment later he indeed pulls her closer by her left arm so that the dancers can pass. However, this is obviously not the reason he initially grabbed her hand which, from this angle at least, seems to be one of those "unnecessary" ( read: couply ) gestures they got us used to.
 

 

[[Official] SPARTACE COUPLE KimJongkook-SongJiHyo]

It's always during that final segment of each fanmeeting that they are the most comfortable and behave the most casually. Their dancing so close during Fire is also adorable to watch, but their positions are already set there, whereas the times they find each other on stage are always more precious :).

[[Official] SPARTACE COUPLE KimJongkook-SongJiHyo]

 

[[Official] SPARTACE COUPLE KimJongkook-SongJiHyo]

So we were talking about this moment elsewhere. KJK is standing behind SJH for the group photo and also places his hand on her, before he moves to her side as there's enough room. What's not included in this clip is the fact that, the moment the game in which they team up with the fans ends, KJK isn't standing anywhere close to SJH. However, as soon as they are about to take the group photo, he rushes all the way from the very end of the group that he is and comes to place himself behind the rest and especially her.

 

 

[[Official] SPARTACE COUPLE KimJongkook-SongJiHyo]

 

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[[Official] SPARTACE COUPLE KimJongkook-SongJiHyo]

It's the usual line up