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Adora Dark

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  1. Hello everyone! No matter which corner of the earth you are reading this from, I hope you're having a good day/night This is only related to KJK, but watching his promo for the game Perfect World made me really excited and brought back so many memories. Sadly, we can't synch, either he modeled for this game ten years too late, or I was playing it ten years too early. Now, I was browsing the social media and since I was astonished once again by how gullible people can be, I decided to log in here and share some opinions. Because the post was turning out too long, I divided it and will share the second part about the Seoul fanmeeting after I watch the latest episode. I hope I don't end up being tiresome. But, first, a late reply to a comment on my previous post: Hello, Marina! This is such a big, undeniable truth. It's a validation when unbiased people state as obvious what we fear/are accused of seeing through shipping googles. My friend's impartial perspective helps me both at times I am being overly cautious with SA, trying to devise all sorts of excuses when the explanation to what I am seeing is a simple "yes, that's a behaviour traditionally attributed to couples" , and at times I am excitedly overanalysing gestures and scenes, distinguishing hidden meanings and love shapes when the answer is "no, that's just a cloud". When it comes to SA, there can be various explanations for their questionable moments if we view them isolated, however there's only one linking them and consistently justifying them all these years. It speaks volumes when said explanation is the first thought popping in the minds of viewers who haven't been absorbed by the enormity of the shipdom and its traps. Onto the "SA is family" narrative now, which inevitably keeps resurfacing and I see it repeated under the video featuring the backstage SA moment at the fanmeeting in Seoul. I'm genuinely surprised with how often people, SA shippers included, completely embrace this scenario based exclusively on the feeble "KJK/SJH said so" argument. I would acknowledge anyone actually making a case for this narrative, regardless if I agreed with the points. However, simply accepting whatever SA may reply to a straightforward question about their love life as an indisputable truth is irrational and driven either by naivety or animosity towards SA, when a) the consensus within the Korean entertainment industry is that the celebrities hide the true nature of their relationships until they are ready for an official announcement, b) KJK has stated more than once he will insist he is single, even when he is not. The man basically made it easy for the fandoms by invalidating his own words, to the point that we can almost completely disregard his refusals to direct inquiries on his love life. Therefore, in order to be able to discuss about the "SA is family" narrative, we all have to agree first on a general admission; whether SA are close friends or lovers, they will still bolster the same "we can't date because we're family" excuse. In the case of their being honest with us, there's nothing much to add about SA. There may be an interest in dissecting the reasons why the fandom keeps mistaking them for a couple, while they've been simply admitting the truth. The focus falls back on SA when we take into consideration the second option, aka they have been hiding the truth. In such an event, emphasizing their familial bond as an obstacle to dating is possibly the best pretext they could ever bring forth, certainly better than the "we are only colleagues/best friends" excuses. For three basic reasons: 1) It is, generally speaking, true. After working closely for so many years, often under difficult circumstances, all the members are considered a family in the wider meaning of the word. It is important for an excuse to be believable and there's no better way than it being in a sense/partly true. 2) It is the only narrative that can still provide some cover for many of their romantic missteps on and off camera. Any other excuse pales in comparison to the couple justification, their intimacy and co-dependency simply can't be convincingly attributed to senior-junior affinity, common friendship or cast camaraderie. Imagine the family narrative as a relatively safe playground where they can occasionally get away with certain shenanigans as long as they keep claiming they are just kids. 3) The idea of family implants negative connotations in love matters. It is written in our subconscious, the moment someone is labeled as brother/sister/family, speculations about erotic feelings suddenly seem inappropriate and sometimes cease. Even though their calling each other family didn't put a permanent end to the rumours surrounding them, still I believe the Spartace fandom would have been even wider, had they played only the " just good friends" card. In reference to the third point above, I'm in favour of the probably unpopular opinion that even when two people honestly considered themselves as "siblings" at some point, that doesn't mean their dynamic remained the same and they never evolved to lovers. The fans always put their idols onto pedestals, we like to idealise their lives and their personalities, we revel in their good manners, supposed high morals and kindness, often projecting our own standards on them. However, the reality away from the spotlight isn't like this. Celebrities may say that they don't mix love with work, that they value X person as a friend and would never ruin that relationship, that they are loyal to their official bf/gf, that ultimately "family" members can't date, but more often than not this is not what is happening. People betray their own ethics all the time. Yes, even the strict-looking, honourable ones. So, even if Spartace progressed from co-workers to friends to family during the first three yeas of RM, even if thoughts like "he/she is like a brother/sister to me, I can't ruin it" crossed their minds, it doesn't mean they remained faithful to them. And this isn't reprehensible, it's very humane. Personally, I believe there was always attraction between them and it was never an issue of family bonding, however I thought it is worth mentioning that even if it was, in the end it didn't matter. There's one more thing before closing the family topic. Often fans mention that husband and wife are also family, usually in reference to what KJK said to HaHa in Big Picture. Indeed, family is more like an umbrella term over various kinds of kinship. There's no point in playing with the words though, it is obvious that when Spartace use the family excuse, they do not intend for us to conclude they imply husband and wife. In the future, if they do officially announce their relationship, they can toy with the multiple meanings of "family" and perhaps make dealing with the public easier for them. Anyway, the main reason I'm bringing this up is because I read again on other social media the opinion that KJK was contrasting himself and there's a suspicious notion in "SA is family" when KJK tells HaHa "family are your wife and sons whom you love". I do agree that it's a funny contrast, one of those that make our eyebrows arch in question, however I do not think it can be used in a strong pro-SA argument. If anyone believes KJK was seriously contrasting himself in Big Picture and would like to talk about it, please feel welcome to message me. As my opinion kinda differs, I'd rather not to expand on it in this post. Before logging in, I read the following comment: "anyone with enough life experience would know that there's very little chance that there's anything between KJK and SJH". It is funny reading this because I too blame the lack of life experience, along with certain cultural and social norms, however not for the conclusions "SA is real/not real" themselves, but rather the choice of clues and arguments people sometimes base them on. For example, if Spartace hugging in Jakarta is for a fan a strong hint something is going on between them, they need to rethink the way they judge these shows and their participants in general. Likewise, all those rejecting any chance of SA being or having been lovers, are probably the ones without enough life experience. Yes, a lot of SA moments are typical of people sharing great camaraderie. This observation still doesn't address every piece of evidence that has been shared in this topic alone since 2013. Generally, it "feels nice" belittling others to ensure they look like an expert to the community, whereas they're using only generalizations and avoiding any reasoning that would provide their claims with some leverage. It makes me question what kind of "life experience" makes one think that everything KJK and SJH do together is exclusively attributed to good friends and is forbidden for couples lol Sometimes I even wonder how many of us actually have sisterly friends of the opposite sex whom we consider family, yet we can be mistaken for lovers. Because, somehow, many anti-SA present themselves very knowledgeable in this field, readily espousing the "he treats her like a sister" rhetoric, but judging by how easily RM fans see i.e. romantic implications during a choreography or in a touch on a shoulder during a photo session or - this is my favourite - jealousy in every little thing, I highly doubt they can maintain really close friendships with the opposite sex without misunderstandings (or that they even live in environments where such proximity is encouraged). That said, I can't really blame the serious sceptics, not when there's a plethora of pictures, videos & comments romanticising even the very air SA are breathing in. For an outsider, the important and seriously questionable moments inevitably disappear within the jumble of biased interpretations. That's unavoidable for every fandom, however, and in a way it's part of the appeal. Anyway, I have to put a fullstop here. I know most of the points I make (and will make) you all have read before, but I've only joined the fandom this year. I'll return with some thoughts regarding the fanmeeting. If you made it to the end, thanks for your patience. Also, I'm just going to leave this here because I found it again. I'm sure not only you all do this with your adult (30+) siblings, but also you usually do it just as sneakily.
  2. In the light of the latest Spartace scenes, I decided to quote here my friend (he is not a Spartace shipper, nor he mingles with the RM fandom) instead of sharing my opinion (for now). We were discussing, and eventually drifted to arguing, about the "family" excuse and generally the course of Spartace the last year - more or less. I was the one questioning and playing the devil's advocate again. I have censored certain words and apologise in advance to anyone that might feel offended by the tone of what follows. Oh btw, I'm Helena, nice to meet you all
  3. (Off topic but has anyone tried the BRTC products KJK promotes? Please message me if you did and are comfortable sharing your opinion on them.)
  4. Happy group pictures of the RM family is the best answer to haters.
  5. I believe this hasn't been shared here yet, has it? Just a couple of raindrops within the drought. In other news, apparently JSM's IG account was hacked, as confirmed by her stylist. https://www.instagram.com/p/B1suR_5hSTW/ All this spread hate and her being an easy target for conservative sexists "paid out" as someone brainwashed themselves enough and acted on it. Honestly, it goes without saying, as a part of the RM fandom we have to encourage reporting all the toxic posts we stumble upon and stand for unity. First and foremost for JSM who is literally just doing her job as an entertainer in a popular show, but also for us because our shipdom and SJH's fans are already collectively blamed.
  6. Oh we're back. For about an hour it felt like Spartace were trying to erase all the evidence stored in the pages of this thread, similarly to how they kept some distance when performing in Seoul for obvious reasons.
  7. I think most people here welcome all opinions. I'm quite cynical myself so perhaps this helps in not being swayed by pessimism. As long as there's some basic - even if wrong/lacking - reasoning behind the opinions shared, and they are not irrational delusions, like the "JSM is trying to ship herself with KJK" nonsense I read and talked about earlier, because it's a total waste of time trying to refute them. Honestly, when it comes to the part of your post regarding JSM's relation to Spartace, I can see your worries but I don't understand them. You're saying you are aware that Spartace are allowed to interact with other people, so what is the differential factor that makes JSM's case stand out among all others? You referred to photos and videos to back up what you (and I know others too) observed, but when I browse through them - and unless I missed out anything important - all I see are preplanned line-ups (standing & sitting) during a compulsory photo session/stage appearance, and a very specific choreography. Within these settings, I see so called "interactions" which are limited to; merely standing side by side in a group, sitting in same vertical row again in a group photo where everyone does the same and dancing in specific close placements during some parts of a choreography. If by further evidence we mean JSM briefly resting her hand on KJK's back, I have to point out 2 things: 1) SJH is briefly doing the same with Se Chan, and others do it too, since it helps them keep their balance , 2) how exactly are fans accepting Spartace can interact with others if a casual touch between two colleagues and friends is considered suspicious? Now to imply that JSM intentionally tried and succeeded in separating Spartace for the short time the photoshooting lasted, entails a number of things: 1) that she is intentionally ignoring production's instructions on where to stand/sit , 2) that, if Spartace are lovers, she is attempting to create a rift between the couple, 3) that, if Spartace are just friends, she is trying to glue on KJK during an official photoshoot at a fanmeeting when she has all the time in the world to do that in private without exposing herself, 4) that all these are happening during their work time - yes a fun occasion indeed, but still it's work time for them, it's a time they have to be professional and comply with the directions they are given and their contracts. I hope you do realise now that, when stripped off anxiety and put into perspective, all these theories about JSM getting inbetween Spartace sound, politely put, unsubstantial. Seriously, I encourage you to keep sharing your thoughts. If anything, it may help others to maintain a clear mind as well, because it's guaranteed there will be several ups and downs until Spartace formalise their relationship or go public with others.
  8. Regarding JSM standing in between Spartace, I honestly think worried SA fans are overreacting. Their placement during such line-ups right in front of the cameras are usually predetermined, they don't just find themselves wherever and try to squeeze their butts in according to which member they favour most. They have already been instructed where to stand/sit. Thinking JSM standing sometimes next to KJK in order to take Press photos means anything - positive or negative - about their professional partnership and friendship is delusional, and that obviously goes for their shippers too. And to be fair, same applies to Spartace in line-ups during fanmeetings. Yes, I love it too when they stand side by side to take photos on a red carpet, but aesthetics aside, this isn't a strong indication Spartace are together either. What matters are their interactions and closeness during the fanmeetings on stage when they are free to roam around, before and after the photos (notice how they enter together in so many occasions and part for the cameras, in tonight's fanmeeting too), at the airports etc. And, obviously, all the rest moments on and off screen when they are not the center of attention, moments that date back to 2010 and haven't stopped occuring to this day. Moments that KJK hasn't shared to the same extent with JSM, HJY and whichever other female he has worked with all these years. Honestly, this mentality that sees JSM's ghost everywhere as a threat is the same one that wants them a couple just because he left a few funny comments on her IG or she patted his back a few times. It's the two different sides, one in favour, the other against, of the same coin and they are based on nothing but distortion of reality to invent "evidence" due to strong wishful thinking. Are Spartace a couple? Maybe yes, maybe no. We have enough evidence to think they are, however the industry they work in is highly controlling and deceptive, they can highlight Spartace in international fanmeetings due to their popularity and, simultaneously, tone it down in Seoul (i.e. by not having them stand together for photos as usually) not to spark further rumours which would displease South Korean fans. Running Man still airing can be one of the explanations for neither confirming, nor firmly denying their romantic relationship. Because in either scenario, whether they are together or not, they have something to gain by not making a firm statement considering how this horrible entertainment system works. We will have to wait, and I understand that with the waiting comes the doubting too. But let's cast our shipping googles aside for once and be realists. Are JSM/KJK a couple? Based on what we have seen, probably not. But, of course, there's always a possibility they are. However, it's the same small possibility that wants KJK dating any other female he has worked with or met at a gala/agency, or even a non-celeb we have never heard of just like in Kang Gary's case. We don't know what he is doing in his bedroom. And despite our deductions about his personality, we don't really know every aspect of his character, no matter how many "KJK is shy/jealous/conservative etc." opinions we read. For the most part, we see what they allow us to see. And what they allow us to see is often edited and filtered to fit the industry's rules and needs. So what do fans do? Rush to pair him up with his co-workers, cause that's the only part of his life we see and can use as a reference. JSM has been close to the rest male members of RM too, but since they aren't available (especially after LKS officially dating) and they don't fit the most-wanted-hunky-bachelor image like KJK, he is the only one remaining for potential match-making. Even though celebrities - and I'm not framing JSM right now, I speak generally about every celebrity around - are just like every other person, they cheat, can date married people, can date more than one person during the same period, can be in the same relationship on & off etc. The minds of biased and often conservative fans like to erase these options. And again, I want to be objective, I'm not excluding Spartace from all this - I have even considered the less likely scenario of them being a couple around 2013-2014 but not anymore. What allows us to differentiate Spartace from other ships and still hope for more isn't the side-hug in the Jakarta fanmeeting or their nice teaming up in episode 461. Wonderful moments? Absolutely. Proofs of a romantic relationship? Allow me to respectfully disagree. At most, they compliment an already established bond, whose probability to be romantic is based on other instances like SJH's photos with KJK's very own friends & family, that immediate embrace as soon as they entered the hotel which is captured only on a lucky fan's camera, the sneakily linked arms as they're heading off stage, the thumb carressing that can't be seen without zooming in, SJH literally picking up KJK's socks to hand them to him even though they were right in front of him , something neither a sibling nor a good friend will do so casually, no matter how much anti-SA fans insist. So, until KJK's niece tells us that JSM dropped her uncle at the gym and then drove her home - seriously, no one is wondering where the heck was KJK's car? - please, don't just buy into a different shipdom's wishful thinking. And no matter what each individual's opinion on JSM and the potential favoritism the RM production exhibits is, at least there is no doubt the woman tries hard to do what she has been asked to for the benefit of the show. It's her freaking job to smile, be funny and engage with the other members on a personal level, KJK included, a job that it was more difficult for her and Se Chan, since they had to compete with both the rest members' consolidation in the fans' hearts and Kang Gary's ghost hovering over a declining show. Don't just slide in the anti-JSM rhetoric, give her a break. Spartace being a couple has nothing to do with her, by standing between them or interacting with KJK she is not trying to ship herself with him - yeah I even read such fiction.
  9. That's what some fans were speculating, I agree that the 2nd voice doesn't sound like KJK's. RM members at the airport heading to Indonesia for the fanmeeting. SJH's outfit seems KJK-inspired again. There are many photographs and some videos online, so far I've seen the rest members walking together but SJH and KJK are pictured separately.
  10. JSJ posted on IG a short vid of SJH singing. It's quite cute and funny. Fans are wondering who's the man heard talking and laughing in the background (some of them are suspecting KJK). Regardless, KJK liked the post - and how couldn't he? It's adorable. And the original post:
  11. Spartace in the preview of ep 462 And full preview:
  12. The contrast with the others is striking. Look at So Min and the rest members not paying attention, while Ji Hyo leans over him concerned. I don't know how people can be blind and deny the possibility they are a couple or the fact their bond is as close as it gets when , throughout the years, there's an abundance of similar moments.
  13. By the way, we can confirm now that SJH's shirt is not the one KJK has worn before, because there is no print on the back. No big deal, it's always good to keep our theories checked so we can focus on the actual evidence. Besides, contrary to the VANS shoes, wearing the same, unique shirt on the same show only a few episodes apart would have been a dead giveaway of their relationship and, thus, not a risk they would likely take.
  14. No idea what triggered their mirroring each other again in the first picture, but they look adorable and very coupley. Also I'm reading on multiple accounts that their dialogue went like this: KJK: "Song Ji Hyo doesn’t know men.” SJH: "I know men well!”
  15. I thought this had been shared. From the preview of Ep 459. It's worth sharing the full picture, for comparison with the rest people who are also seated.
  16. KJK's hair is often a good way to date pictures and videos Here, for example, both the style and colour are different from what he currently has. At least I always go by his hair to estimate when a photo was taken, since I haven't watched yet all RM episodes, nor I'm aware of every photoshoot or show KJK appeared in before RM.
  17. I have a slightly more cynical opinion about the hand holding + hug. I think it's the same type of embrace like when two people high five or grab each other's hands and then do the hug-bump, which is not an uncommon way of greeting, especially in the West. Of course the way KJK does with SJH differs from how he would greet a mate. It is more affectionate as clearly shown in the video, despite the downpour. I just don't think the hug and the hand holding are separate motions chosen individually (the scene would be even more romantic if they were separate), but rather parts of the same greeting, which still here assumes an intimate tone considering how dearly KJK holds her hand onto his chest. Also, regarding the songs, I think KJK made the better choice because even though both songs are for those totally in-love, Unconditional perhaps suits Spartace a tad more than Love Battery. Essentially, Love Battery describes someone who is lonely and out of energy and needs their significant other's love to fill up, even if that person isn't objectively pretty, what matters is that they are perfect in their eyes. On the other hand, Unconditional speaks about a kind of love that knows no boundaries, where the lovers will run to each other at any given time needed, something they won't necessarily do if other people call them.Neither the place plays a role, they will still reach their chosen one even if they are oceans apart, just like the lyrics say "Even across the Pacific , even across the Atlantic, even across the Indian ocean". And we all know how often Spartace spend their time oceans apart due to their obligations or due to KJK being in L.A. which is, ahem, over the Pacific. Such a funny coincidence
  18. One more compilation video edited by kjksaaa, including the 3 hugs & subtitles, from KJK pointing at SJH while singing "Loveable", to the high-5 + side-hug at end and SJH mentioning later how KJK scolded her for wanting to sing Love Battery, suggesting Unconditional instead. Especially this last bit of info shows how closely they prepared for this event.
  19. Talented guy! KJK also commented "ㅋㅋㅋㅋ 커피한잔만 주심 다 그려드려요 ㅋㅋ" which translates to "ㅋㅋㅋㅋ Just buy me coffee and I will draw for anyone~ ㅋㅋ " (cr. kjkintl IG for translation)
  20. Really thankful for all the different angles Spartace is captured in! Can I talk about it since I'm neither an anti nor a lurker? I'll use the spoiler tag so anyone not interested can skip it. Back to SA, another fun detail:
  21. Our ship literally faced the storm yesterday and thoroughly enjoyed themselves Since this August signals our SA's 10-years-on-screen anniversary, maybe we should celebrate it lol All the new members, welcome! And all the returning veterans, welcome back! Is it soompi's purging the old accounts or the wonderful SA moments we have been getting lately that caused this surge of SA fans? Perhaps both? Regarding the lyrics of the song coinciding with SJH's introduction, it's further interesting how KJK noticed her before singing that part, not during or right after it. He could have skipped said lyric at that point and introduced her, instead he finishes it and skips the next verse. I do think that the heavy rain didn't leave him much space for thought, which means that even though this was indeed a sweet coincidence, still KJK (and everyone) was overall more spontaneous.
  22. We should play a "pick your favourite hug" game at some point, over the years they've been so many Among the three new hugs, the "saranghae" one stands out. The rest two are precious moments as well, but while those can be justified by KJK acknowledging a friend who has joined his performance (even though he doesn't do the same with Haha), the third hug comes spontaneously right at the moment they share the love with the fans and pass them the mic. The habit of the RM members doing this every time they sing "Loveable" in their events + the overwhelming downpour SA experienced together + the tendency SA have in expressing themselves with physical contact, all factored in their closing in and hugging so naturally. And still, Haha wasn't included, even though doing a group hug the moment they and audience mutually sing "I love you" would have made sense. Therefore, I feel this hug was slightly more personal. This level of interaction is basically as much as they can show when on stage, without becoming undeniably suspicious, whether they are friends or lovers as they wouldn't want to create further rumours in either case. What possibly promotes the second scenario is that they could have made their lives easier by avoiding standing out as a duo among the rest RM members, yet they don't do it. If they are indeed a couple, I honestly don't know how all this tip toeing around each other for years while wavering between fuelling and shutting down rumours will help them, I just hope these choices will not have much of a negative impact in the long run. Actually, considering how controlling and horrid the industry they work in is, I doubt every choice is theirs. What appears to be certain is that they can't announce their relationship before RM ends, it would change the show's dynamic completely.
  23. We'll never know so everything is hypothetical. But I think if they are not separate, unrelated pairs of shorts, then it's more likely she borrowed his own pair, rather than they bought the same shorts in different sizes as "couple garments". I don't rule out the possibility, but to me this pair of shorts she is wearing in this event doesn't seem to be her ideal size. It also differs from the short pants she usually wears. And, though this is merely a guess, I think if they were to choose "couple garments", they would go for something else, waterproof shorts just doesn't sound as memorable as matching shirts or shoes or even caps. Also, the whole habit of buying matching clothes can be tricky when it comes to celebrities, because they have stylists deciding their outfits and companies sponsoring them. I'm not convinced for example that every time they wore "couple shoes" during the same RM event, it always was their own deliberate choice. But this instance is different, especially due to the weather conditions, it resembles more the past case @saissuspicious mentioned. One thing is certain, whether the pair of shorts is one and the same, or it is the same style bought twice as "couple shorts", the implication is clear; Spartace is validated as a couple. Yes good friends may also share the same taste and buy the same clothes, but they usually choose something more unique and memorable. And if their shorts are totally different and our assumptions are wrong, no big deal, there's a big pile of evidence that supports Spartace and it grew higher tonight.
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