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Posts posted by linhlinh111

  1. So the ending is officially out. All the good guys get happy endings, About the villains, some are satisfying, some are not.


    Stepmom's death, great, but why the hell let her destroy Gu family's shrine? She was dying yet had to cause some more damage? And GTY's 3rd brother's acting is so fake (or maybe it's the voiceover's fault) but it really put me off mood.


    ED, well I understand she's the Emperor's official mother so the Emperor just couldn't do anything about her. I've read quite a few novels and the worse outcome is just being detained for life. But why is the Emperor still so sentimental about her? She tried to kill him, his comrades, and started a rebellion against him. Get a grip man, you're too old for mother-complex already.


    And Molan. Like, I get it, she is still welcomed back to the house. But how can they be so casual with her? She freed the woman who tried to kill her own Grandmother, and they just let it pass like that? Are all these people Saints or something?


    On the other hand, all our beloved characters are doing great. ML and GTY, QH and his wife and the whole Sheng family. TSoML's ending is fulfilled. Thank God Hunan TV didn't pull up any other trick.

    • Like 6
    • Love 2

  2. So has anyone heard about the scandal that Hunan TV created with the last episode? Well Hunan TV has always been notorious for tampering with dramas they broadcast. So they had quite a difficult time last year. They poured their money on many blockbusters but they all eventually failed, until TSoML. TSoML is doing too good, so they tried to squeeze some more value out of it by extending it another few more episodes (not in the original director's cut), making it unnecessarily long and tiring. Now to the last episode they decided to divide it into 2 parts, broadcasting in 2 days. They first aired TSoML's half episode, then they proceeded to air their new drama instead of the later half to push the rating of their new drama. All viewers just kept watching cuz they thought it was the commercials and they were expecting the ending. So that new drama actually has extremely high starting rating but angers everyone. Now there goes the new drama's favoritism along with Hunan TV's reputation.

    • Like 2
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    • Sad 4

  3. 4 hours ago, paopaolong said:

    Well I can explain about the Chinese names. Of course each character has its meaning, but not exactly every name means something. For example, every daughter of the Sheng family has a "兰Lan" in her name, and every son has a "长chang" in his name. Lan means orchid, which is a noble flower in acient China. Minglan can be explained as "bright orchid", while Molan is "ink orchid", Rulan is "like an orchid". In Gu Tingye's name, "廷Ting” is given to every son in the Gu family, which means the court. And "'烨Ye” means glorious.

    For Qi Heng's name, "衡Heng" means balance. His Zi, Yuan Ruo can be hard to explain, because 元Yuan has many meaning and 若Ruo means "if' or "like". The author chose these two characters might simply because Yuan Ruo sounds good. And in the novel, they nicknamed him "元宝Yuan Bao" (which is a shoe-shaped gold ingot) because  the pronunciation is similar. So that's why Minglan sewed a shoe-shaped gold ingot on the knee pads.




    Is it a little disappointing that the Zi Yuan Ruo doesn't have a nice meaning. Zi are chosen later in life so shouldn't it be picked carefully?

    • Like 1

  4. What I'm really pissed off in recent episodes is WHY GTY NOT TIED UP LOOSE ENDS? I mean he has so many, so many weaknesses and he just left them hanging. Hasn't he ever thought that his enemies would use them against him? Why didn't he keep written evidences? Why left MN alive when she's proven to be able to cause quite a damage? And the whole thing with Bai family. He  kept no evidences. At least if he thought things carefully and keep some of his enemies' weaknesses in his hands then there'll be less things against him now. They are his enemies. Shouldn't he keep check on them and have some kind of leverage? Didn't he know once he lose his ground all of them will come barking like dogs?


    @Golden Flower I don't know that many details but I heard the imperial court can suspend a Marquis/Count's proposal for an heir so I guess at least an Emperor could drag time before choosing someone he sees fit to bear the title. I mean the Emperor doesn't say to withdraw their title so he at least have that much authority, right? I think unless they are royalty, noble families pay for expenses themselves by income they get from real estate and shops like normal families. Who pays the expenses depends on who's managing Gu family's asset, Stepmom or ML, like how they are usually paid before. If family asset has been divided then they each pay for their own. About tax I'm I'm not sure, I guess they don't have to pay since they are still noble. Stepmom and GTY's brother's wife still have their noble women titles, since they were bestowed on them due to their husbands, not GTY, so they retain full rights as noble women. But it may not be historically accurate since I got my knowledge from novels. But technically the Emperor can do anything since he has absolute power. It's just how far he can abuse it before being considered a tyrant. Dragging some noble title is pretty much within boundaries.

    • Like 3

  5. I don't always care about historical facts in drama, it depends on which type of drama I'm watching. For example if it's some kind of comedy or action or sci-fi period drama then it doesn't matter (like Eternal Love or Princess Agent or Ten miles of peach blossoms), but TSoML is good bc it depicts the realistic life of women in the Song dynasty, so of course I want to know if it's doing it right. I really doesn't have to be very accurate, but if at least it shouldn't feel absurd. Even if it didn't follow history, if the plot was consistent then it would feel more real and relatable. Even if not comparing it to the book, the drama has started to lose its touch in the later one-third. 


    4 hours ago, matrim said:

    In ancient China a person's names was a complicated matter. Usually one had two names: Ming and Zi. The former was given by one's parents and used by elders, the latter was given when one turned 20 (in the case of females, 15) and used by peers. Generally Zi bore similar or same meaning of Ming and sometimes it's a complement to Ming. Some had a third name Hao which reflected one's ideal or characters. To show respect for others, one should use Zi or Hao instead of Ming. So we seldom hear QH but Yuan Ruo. As Qi was his family name and Heng given name, Yuan Ruo his Zi (sorry there's no English equivalent for this). Niang is the informal word for Muqin, carrying more intimate feel, their relationship similar to that of mom and mother in English.


    None of the females in this drama have Zi, so I guess it's not common for females? Or females don't have Zi in Song dynasty but they do in a different period?

    • Like 6

  6. I agree with @Golden Flower the Emperor can't just take away the Marquis title. There are 2 types of noble title in feudal China: the non-inheritable ones (given to minor contributors) and inheritable ones (given to major contribution to the country). In heritable ones, those that were bestowed for people helping in establishing the dynasty are the most prestigious (like Gu family) and can't be ripped off bc some descendant committed a crime. The current emperor can only take away titles that he bestows himself (for those with major contribution in his time). Titles that were bestowed by previous Emperors can only be recalled under the crime of treason or similar level. However what he can do is leaving the title hanging, meaning he drags the time needed to make a decision on the heir. This dragging time can be months or years depending on his Majesty's preference. During this time, Stepmom's title is unchanged since she's still the previous Marquis's wife, and they can still keep their residence. But they will lose many privileges since women can only socialize in a small circle and no men in the house have noble title, so they can't socialize with other noble men. The role of men in families is very important. Even with the Marquis name, if no men in the house have the Marquis title then their status will drop drastically.

    • Like 8

  7. 2 hours ago, sava2sava said:


    I was wondering how could they take GTY marquis title from him.. He inherited his own title but also inherited the marquis title from his brother which generations of Gu's has died defending the country just like him.. This title is past down from generation to generation.. So GTY son his he next in line to inhherit the title not 3rd brother..  the Gus was part of founding the dynasty i wonder.. To strip him of his tile is a slap in the ancestors faces and a mark on the emperor himself.. Who would want to fight a war for him only to be treated like this. 



    Technically the Emperor can rip someone off their title and give it to his relative if the one holding the title proves undeserving of it. The title was bestowed on GTY's ancestors and is inherited by their descendants, it doesn't have to be GTY, he is just someone in line, it can be passed to the next person in line, which is his brother, or even his cousins. And by the law if GTY has been ripped off his title, his son is no longer eligible to inherit it.


    1 hour ago, dito said:


    This whole downfall story track has been very poorly incorporated. First of all, the stepmom going all out to bring down GTY does not make any sense, as she'll be getting the brunt of GTY's downfall too. If the charges are proven, not only GTY, the stepmom will loose everything too. She's living in the Gu house, living on GTY's properties, his money, his title. All of that would be taken away once he's found guilty. Stepmom, her son, the Gu uncles and cousins....there are all living on GTY's status. Taking his title away will also mean taking away everything that comes with it. That means every one of them including ML will become homeless.

    If his crime had affected the state and the country, GTY's whole family could be sold as slaves. The two momo's who took Kang aunt away and tied her up in the Sheng house were actually from the house of the prince who rebelled before the new emperor came. In the book they were thankful that ML and GTY didn't hold that against them and were fair to them as masters.


    Now if they had incorporated this storyline after the Gu house is divided and the family living separately....then I could understand stepmom's actions. Then GTY and the other Gu's would be separate families and will not be that affected by each other's actions.


    Using the salt mines mismanagement would have been so much simpler and sensible .....if they did want to go over dramatic for the finale week.

    And I was horrified at GTY showing his glee and happiness on hearing of ML's desperate begging in front of the empress.

    Writers, do you even understand your drama's characters? 


    This story didn't need to be this dramatic at this juncture, the finale was going to have more than enough drama. We had just finished a very emotional story track of the poisoning. Then the child birth surrounded by fire and the knife attack. At this time, the story needed to take a deep breathe and calm the f**k down to start the final rebellion track which had plenty of excitement. And if they wanted more excitement just make that part super dramatic. No need to add unnecessary stuff that don't even make sense. 


    Theres a saying....Don't fix it, if its not broken. Screen writers need to understand that.


    I think in the book it was a jade bangle instead of pearl necklace that QH's mom gifted to ML and the other girls. Did the writers forget what they wrote in the previous episodes? Or did they hire new writers for the last 10-12 episodes. 


    I agree, there is so much scheming going on at the same time and some doesn't even make sense. It's dragging the drama too long and it feels tiresome to watch recent episodes.

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  8. 2 hours ago, Golden Flower said:

    I just wanna point out some facts as some posters are confused and kept saying them wrong.

    (1) HL has been raised by grandma when she was young (it was mentioned in ep1 when Grandma gave HL her dowry) and that's why her thought process and behavior has been different from RL though they are both Daniang's daughter. Daniang also spoiled RL more being youngest, did not bare to see her suffer and did not send her to grandma. 

    (2) Molan is NOT married to a Count. She is married to the sixth son of Count of Yongcheng who won't be inheriting the title (though it was not clear how many sons Madam Wu has, it wasn't mentioned Liang Han was the only di son. I'm pretty sure she has older di sons though the oldest is a shu son.) So, Molan's son if she got any in the future won't also inherit the Count title. Molan's husband currently do not have an official position and hasn't passed the imperial palace exam yet. On the other hand, GTY was lucky enough to inherit the title even though he was the second son and he is also the General of capital army. ML is already the wife of Marquess, received noble woman title and her eldest son will inherit the title. These facts already indicate huge differences in status between Molan and ML. Molan, who always wanted to be above or at least equal status with all her sisters, will be burning with fury inside. 

    (3) The noble concubine Liu is NOT the niece of ED.  ED took her son as a hostage so that NCL will listen to her orders faithfully and she also might have plan to use him as a puppet emperor. NCL also gave her son to ED though she knew he was being held hostage (she made herself drunk before sending him to ED) so that she could request her help in promoting her family members and to increase the chance of her son inheriting the throne with ED's support. It was mentioned that NCL doesn't have strong maternal family being from You Zhou when she was throwing her tantrum for reducing her son's wet nurses. 


    @m0us3y @zenya22 I also agree with you that GTY needing to see ML being out of her clam self should not be included in this scene. I think he seeing her getting jealous and being unhappy, for him arranging Feng Sheng's living place (concubine given by his paternal aunt) after just a few days of giving birth and facing life and death situation, should have been enough. Women can get headache quite often for the rest of their life if they cry or emotionally upset during the first month after delivery. He should already understand how much ML has begged, cried and caused ruckus when Huan Wang used the word (sapo, meaning cry, cause ruckus and being unreasonable) and said that he would have asked to carry her out if he was his mom (Empress). However, he was so gleeful to the point of even wanting to hear personal account in details from someone present at the scene. This is one of those scenes which I believe the writers added unnecessarily, losing momentum for the characters and making the drama so long. 

    @matrim According to my understanding of criminal punishment law in ancient China, an official who is just being demoted won't be imprisoned and exiled unless he is convicted of a crime. @linhlinh111 am I correct? General Shen addressed him as felon Gu and it was mentioned by ML, Empress and General Shen of GTY going to be exiled (in autumn). Hopefully, we will find out in details in today's 2 episodes what happened. I stop taking literally on writers' dialogues as I have caught many discrepancies as they don't seem to remember what is being said in previous episodes. (Recently, during fire rescue scene when being prevented from helping put out fire at Chen garden by his parents, QH mentioned his mom giving ML a bangle in token of being his younger sister but actually it was southern pearl necklaces that was being given to Sheng girls.) In preview below, Molan mentioned Wang Old Madam and stepmom winning and about GTY losing Marquess title (which she said the title which he attained by lying, stealing and forcing). 



    @hello210 The emperor's decree regards to GTY's punishment hasn't been shown yet. We just saw the previews of his losing title mentioned by Molan (above preview) and he being about to be exiled. I do understand Marquess house won't be taken away if third brother going to inherit the title. Then, GTY won't be getting the title back and stepmom would have kicked ML out. Marquess house and Chen garden have sort of combined but not really as they just have a gate in the wall (it is different from the book) and garden around the wall. I guess I will stop speculating/ commenting until I saw the actual episodes. I'm rather doubtful of writers taking careful considerations for these details of taking away the houses seeing how things have been presented in recent episodes 73-74. 


    @dito I was so amazed at the writers for bringing in Bai uncle just to accuse GTY wrongfully taking his grandfather inheritance by fake will, the case which happened over at least 12 years ago and already solved in favor of GTY by Yan Zhou prefect and SH who were government officials. I understand that they want to show that stepmom want to make GTY's integrity questionable and want to portray him being above the law in front of emperor and officials by bringing in MN and Bai uncle but it is so unnecessary to bring in a case that was already settled. I thought they will make something unlawful regards in salt trading and blame it on GTY like you predicted. MN accusing GTY of killing the son in front of her, really? They could have figured out how and when the son died by looking at his bones and compared with the time MN come to GTY's house and spreading rumors in the city.


    Actually there are 2 types of exiling that can be used in feudal times: 

    -  Literary exiling: meaning an official/citizen is convicted of a crime, he will be escorted to a snowy northern bordering area to do hard labor.

    - Metaphorical exiling: meaning when an official lose the Emperor's favor, he will be demoted to a bottom-level official and sent off to a faraway poor rural place with no prospects of promotion. I thought this is what happened to QH since I remember in the novel he also worked for a period of time as a local official. But it seems I misunderstood. He just got demoted. I realized it when QH appeared again in the drama but too lazy to edit my previous posts.

    • Like 8

  9. Characters like Molan and Aunti Kang are detestable, but I'm more angry at their parents, mothers who destroy their daughters' lives in the name of love and the near non-existent father roles. It makes me wonder how they would change if they had been raised and loved by someone similar to Grandma, or how ML would turn out if she hadn't grow up beside her. Many villains in this drama are just products of the era, how a distorted social system traps and drives people crazy. It's a system that can enlarge the darkness in human hearts and those with weak resolve and faulty moral compass will succumb to jealousy and greed. I hate them and at the same time pity them.

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  10. 2 hours ago, frenchfan said:

    Not sure her dad would want her back since this will be a shameful event for the family.  :grimace:


    I'm not sure but based on my knowledge on historical practices, unless her father openly disowns her (which he won't do cuz it will stir up a public scandal), he has to take her back. Not only that, to avoid public eye the divorce will be done as quiet as possible. What he does to her after that though, is behind closed doors. It can either be being grounded or exiled for life. Or he can give a signal to her husband to kill her off in silence (I don't think he would do that but possible). All and all, they will deal with it underground.


    These are 2 methods that are usually used in this kind of situation if both parties are smart. Another stupid method is that the husband kicks her out while the father refuses to take her back. Letting her loose is usually the root to another trouble.

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  11. On 2/9/2019 at 3:59 PM, sava2sava said:

    @nichiwoohee  I'm was wondering is it some kind of crime if there's no concubines in the house.  From the ED down to the relatives all tried to stick concubines in the house for there very own selfish reasons..


    @Suzzy San  It was never about her son it's always been all about her and what she wanted.. 3rd son wants a good relationship with his brother it's just his mom won't allow him to have one with GTY.. Even he said he don;t mind having the marquis title but he's not qualified for nor have work for it like GTY did.. Evil Step Mom blew a fuse hearing him say that..


    Technically it's not a crime but it's not encouraged, reasons are:

    1. The most prioritized mission of a man is to produce an heir. Back when filial piety is the guideline for everyone's actions, not having an heir is considered the biggest offense. And taking into account the medical condition of the time, the stake of a child not making it into adulthood is high, so men from noble families would have the responsibility to produce as many sons as possible, and that couldn't be done with just one woman. So elders usually use this excuse to shove women into their juniors' houses, sometimes for political causes.


    2. In feudal times China, people tend to blame the woman for a man's misbehavior. For example if a man only has one woman, then his wife would be accused of jealousy, wicked, overpowering her man. These are very negative traits when judging a woman, which will put a lot of pressure on the couple. His peers will mock him (scared of your wife etc) and at some point they will break. Also in a marriage, having concubines is a method the husband (or his family/elders) uses to establish power over the wife and her family. This method is totally legit and not considered underhanded at all.


    3. Sometimes lowborn women are considered as gifts or bestowals (for men with playboy personality this actually has positive meaning). Rejecting them is considered rude and make the giver lose face. So sometimes a person from a higher status could use this excuse to plant a spy or to serve other purposes. Again, it's not considered underhanded method. This is very interesting because it can be used in various ways (mostly by royals bc most of the time people cannot refuse their bestowals). Depends on the quality and status of the gift it can be considered as a symbol of fondness, a punishment or a shame to either the husband or the wife.

    • Like 9

  12. @m0us3y In the drama there are more interactions between ML and GTY, but in the book he also observed her for a long time before choosing her as his bride and the schemes to get her are similar. The main element of the arguments remain unchanged but in the book it was executed with intensity and it marked a milestone in their relationship. @dito has stated quite clearly I just wanted to add some details.


    The first argument happened in a similar situation as in the drama, except there were just 2 of them sitting in a closed room. ML pointed out for him while he, as a noble and a man, had little at stake why she, as a lowborn woman, would lose everything once she fell out of his favor and without reputations. It's the same as a conversation she had before about her and QH in the drama, which states that a small amount of value to QH may mean everything to her. This can also apply with GTY. She then cried silently, saying she was indeed selfish, bc she could never put everything on the line for a man's love. GTY then understood how hard it is on her and moved back to sleep with her, never spoke about that again.


    The second argument happened in a different situation since they changed the sequence of event in the drama. In the book the delivery of her first child took place first, then the poison of Grandma. When GTY was away and ML was near labor, Stepmom plot plans against her, first by having Aunti Kang sending a concubine, which failed. After that she seeked out Manniang (the son was still alive). One thing after another and MN tried to assassinate ML but failed then the fire. GTY, after a while of consideration, decided to exile MN and warned Stepmom by killing the son of her right-hand-woman, which ML agreed to. Later when Daniang's maid was spying on the house (same as drama), Grandma got furious and scolded Daniang, which then lead to the poison case. Later when GTY arrived at the scene (this is similar to drama), he was so surprised seeing ML, who was usually so calm and reserved, lost it in rage. She did so many things that she shouldn't have done, like locking the house down, torturing the maids and threatening her father. She could have thought of a safer method to handle the matter. She then told GTY, Grandma needn't have to stressed things out with Daniang. The maid was actually a really small problem and it could be handled without causing a ruckfuss with Daniang. But bc Grandma cared about her too much that she didn't think it straight. Grandma was a wise lady and she should have known the best way to handle the problem, but when ML was being targeted all of her wisdom went down the drain and she would rush at anyone who tried to harm her. ML said when people cared too much they made mistake. GTY, on the other hand, was very clever and careful in dealing with the incident with ML. All of his aftermath solutions were calculated carefully to take out their enemies in the future. ML admitted that what he did would benefit them most. But if he truly cared for her than he wouldn't think it that clearly. ML asked him why he didn't burst out in rage, if he were to risk everything just to avenge her even knowing she was safe in the end. The proof of love wasn't how many right things he did for her, but how many stupid mistakes he would be willing to commit for her. GTY stayed silent and could not reply. In the end ML said let's just continue like this, she would be a proper wife and mother. GTY then watch her fall asleep without saying a word.


    The beauty of these arguments is that it struck really hard into GTY's heart (and also the readers'). It pushed GTY into a realization of how wrong he was in viewing their relationship, how demanding he was of her and how his smart and cunning methods that he was proud of was backfiring at him. He realized that while he was criticizing her of holding back her emotions, he was also wearing a thick armor to protect himself and that there were no shortcuts nor bargaining in love.


    @Golden Flower QH was just a side character in the book so I didn't expect him to have that much screen time, although ZYL's potrayal was marvelous. It was the character of ML I was worried about. In the book even GTY doesn't appear much and ML is the main focus throughout the story. She was smart, rational and very insightful. She is a special woman, some of her words are intense and heavy and they carry her mature thoughts on love and life. I thought ZLY's acting was not enough to play such a character. Well they changed the plot a bit and turn ML livelier, more suitable for ZLY. I understand a 15-ish soul is incomparable to a 36-ish soul, but it's rather sad since the character lost part of its depth and impact.

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  13. 16 minutes ago, dito said:


    Exactly. They are paying the authors for the copyrights as it is why not consultation too. It will only benefit them and help them make a better drama. Writing fails when screen writers don't understand the characters of the source material....what better than getting the author on the team.

    I think bad writing is the major reason I have dropped most of the recent adapted works. Last drama Cdrama I finished was Lost Love in Times and they changed almost all of the story by adding the magic. AOL was horrible after the added side plots........ROP changed about 80% of the story from the book....I mean why even bother buying the copyrights then.



    Yeah I really don't know what's going on in the Chinese TV industry. They're wasting so many great source materials. In the past few years I have seen many of my favourite books get turned into crappy dramas it's driving me nuts.

    • Like 6

  14. 45 minutes ago, dito said:


    Daylight is one of the best production houses these days in this industry but they need better writers.  I have felt this while watching LMIYD, WSFIL, BOC.....all of them had writing and logic fails.(not NIF. maybe coz the author of the book was the main screen writer.) 


    Anyways, I do agree that this drama is tons better than some of the others out there. But when you are spending so much money on authentic looking sets, props and costumes....can you spare a little for better writers. I guess they emptied their bank accounts for multiple seasons of "Like a flowing river" or whatever its called.



    Yeah I think they put all their resources this year into "Like a flowing river", they didn't even have their A-team in this project. All the pre-producion like settings and clothes look cheap too. Daylight had many great dramas a few years ago, like NiF, the disguiser, Ode to joy but recently it's quality is going down. It's still good but not as outstanding as before, except for maybe Like a flowing river, but that series isn't popular to foreign viewers.


    I wonder why Chinese drama producers don't consult the original authors on the screenplays. I see normally dramas which have the original authors as screenwriters and stay true to the original book are more likely to be successful. They bought popular books to adapt bc those books already have massive fanbases and they want to attract their readers, but then they decide to mess things up? What a waste!

    • Like 6

  15. 9 hours ago, dito said:


    They should have kept the original scene from the book....Molan coming out wet from the water.

    Though that wouldn't have caused the same furore as the one Colin Firth caused in his wet shirt in P&P.:blush:

    I agree with @minglan1 that 1995 TV version is the best P&P ever.


    Anyways, I have to admit with all its inaccuracies and hard to make sense plot twists....this drama is still much better than the others out there. 

    I just have to stop watching the freaking previews. They are seriously stressing me out.

    But I'm a spoiler addict ...can't help but have a peek.:grimace:



    I don't mind a few flaws but when it's such an obvious plot hole then it's irritating to watch.


    This drama is actually better than the majority, but it is how it's supposed to be. I rarely watch C drama in the past few years, cuz the quality's been going down, nonsense script writing, crappy idol actors, lousy productions etc. Most big IPs spend a fortune on popular idols, inducing cliche protagonists, trying to squeeze money from female audiences. I normally only watch a drama when it's over with good reviews. Especially with ZLY, her recent dramas all started well but ended up like richard simmons. However I decided to follow TSoML from the beginning bc of 2 reasons:

    1. I really like the original novel

    2. I have trust in Daylight Entertainment. If you don't know Daylight Entertainment has quite a reputation in drama land recently. Most of their products have really high quality, like NiF, Battle of Changsha, Ode of joy... (I watch all of them). They always put careful preparation and great effort in their production, and they reuse most of their supporting actors (which I like). That's why I have high hopes for this drama and willing to take the risk before the final scene is out, although I was a little worried about the main cast. None of the main leads are recognized for their acting abilities and Daylight Entertainment is known for not working with idol actors. However, TSoML is a big IP and I assume they know what they are doing.


    The drama turns out fine, I mean it's fun watching but it doesn't live up to my expectations. The acting is average. There are a few moments of outstanding performances but most of the time it's average. The supporting roles are great though. But there 2 things that they disappointed me. First is the script-writing. I understand they had to change the plot here and there to fit the drama, but they should pay attention to the logic. This is not some lousy cheap production. This is Daylight Entertainment's second biggest drama of the year. It shouldn't make me think "Hey this doesn't make any sense". They had a really good source material at hand and they should have utilized it better. 


    Second is the drama completely screwed up my 2 most awaiting scene: GTY and ML's 2 arguments. These 2 scenes in the book were so impressive and they were like, the roots, the foundation of their relationship so I was so excited to see it on screen. I'm so sorry to say none of them lived up to the hype.

    • Like 7
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  16. 8 hours ago, Golden Flower said:


    @mooose I was talking about drama making Molan and Liang Hang affair to having sexual relationship in the storage room of famous temple, spiritual place which is usually busy with official and noble families visiting, not only once but a few times (though not mentioned exact meeting times, it was meeting every 2-3 days for a few times to the point of Molan is sure of being pregnant). Even if Lin Yiniang helping arrange and cover for Molan, other people like Daniang, RL, grandma not noticing Molan who was supposed to be confined at home disappear for a few hours for a few times and not being noticed by anyone at the temple in that era is a bit too unreasonable. Having been carried by a man at that time is enough to ruin a girl's reputation. They just wanna dramatize Molan being caught by SH. 



    Yes someone finally said it. This scene is so wrong in so many levels it doesn't even make any sense at all. First, in ancient time no families with status could accept a non-virgin main wife, not to mention a pregnant one. This is an absolute no-no, non-negotiable. The only solution in that situation would be to drown Molan to preserve the family's reputation, or a forced abortion and grounded for the rest of her life would be the lightest punishment. Molan and CL should understand that very clearly and if they ever wanted Molan to be married off as a main wife then they are not dumb enough to pull that trick. In the book she pretended to fall into the pond and the Liang's son saved her, thus seeing her in wet transparent clothes. Being hugged is enough to throw her reputation off the balcony, but it is still within the acceptable scope for Grandma to negotiate and blackmail the Marquis. But losing her virginity is too big for any of Grandma's cards to work. When I was watching that scene I was like, WTF? Why didn't they keep it like the book this is so illogical.

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  17. I have scrolled through comments and it seems there are some misunderstanding bout why QH tries to oppose the Emperor. Here's my explanation (if you are not interested anymore, just pass):


    First, QH is being manipulated by ED, and he holds a grudge against GTY.


    Second, even if QH was not being manipulated by ED, and he didn't hold a grudge against GTY, he would still oppose the Emperor.


    In my previous post, I have mentioned how important reputation is to a man with status, and that includes the Emperor. Whatever, however your purpose or your method is, you have to keep a good name. Even with good intentions, it's worthless if your name is tainted. Moreover, the Emperor is someone the whole country look up to and the people will imitate what he does, so everything he does has to be honorable. The action to honor his biological father as emperor is considered unfilial and ungrateful towards his official father. The Emperor can not have the label unfilial, ungrateful, disregarding the law attached to his name, it will cause him to lose the people's trust. It can turn worse when people try to imitate him, then no one would dare to adopt sons anymore. Thus, this action has to be prevented.


    Back to QH's position, a Yu shi. His job is to advise the Emperor to raise his reputation and prevent him to dirty his name. There's no point in doing all the good deeds when the Emperor has no reputation to back it off. His first advice, to investigate the rebellion against the late Emperor, help the Emperor gain recognition. The second action has the above-mention purpose. The Emperor's goal maybe legitimate, but is method clearly put him in the wrong. Since becoming Emperor, he has done many things that is unfit for an emperor, the ED seems to have a better name than him right now.


    There are many men similar to QH in that era. In fact, QH is considered a model image of an honorable noble men of the time. QH represents a very particular type of officials in history. They are mostly scholars, with highly educated background. They are strict, stubborn and old-school. They do not care who is in power, their viewpoint on protecting the rules remains unchanged. They do not care about the intention nor purpose, as long as it doesn't go back on the traditional core value. I think they intentionally create QH as a character opposing GTY, traditional vs open-minded, by-the-book vs flexible, reputation vs content.


    QH is not a politician.  He doesn't understand that this is not about what's right or wrong, this is a political game where people fight to be in charge. What he says doesn't matter if he picks the wrong side, thus leads to his downfall. But this is actually better for him. He can do more as a local official than a Yu shi. Being away can give him some peaceful time far from the storms in the capital.

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  18. On 2/3/2019 at 8:37 AM, purplefall94 said:

    I was always wondering how women can become unbearable psychos like Maniang, Big Madam, and Aunty Kang. I still don't understand Maniang (maybe she's a natural psycho lol) but think I can sympathize a little bit with Big Madam and Aunty Kang here. Failure to receive care and love from their husband obviously contributes greatly to their psycho characteristics and directly influences their "everyone has wronged me" view. But this definitely shouldn't be the excuse for them to project their unhappiness to everyone around them. It's just so wrong and so... pathetic.


    The actress who plays Big Madam did her role great justice in the raining scene at the worshipping room. I can feel her bitterness, disillusionment, dispair and discontent with her marriage. I mean she's definitely to blame for her wicked business, she shouldn't bottle up her emotions for all those year, put on the fake virtuous mask and eventually turn herself into a monster. But I can't help wonder whether we would have been like her if we were in her shoes. Maybe this is why I feel her evilness is more "reasonable" compared to that of Aunt Kang who hates just anyone because they won't let her have her way.

    Manniang is a woman from the lowest status in society obsessed about becoming something more than herself. In that era, there is no future for her. No matter how much she struggles, she is meant to be looked down on by others. She is unable to accept her fate, but as a woman in that era, she doesn't know how to change it on her own, so she does it the only way she knows how, by landing a noble husband. I understand her motivation and actually sympathize with her, a woman at the bottom of the hierarchy, living in a world dominated by men, she's trapped and she strives for the top by any means possible, even stepping on others' corpses. However using her own children is unforgivable. I believe she also has some kind of mental disorder.


    Big Madam is all about authority. What she wants is her full legitimate rights as a main wife, which she never had. Earlier it was concubine Lin who challenged her power. Later when concubine Lin is gone, the other shu daughters are married off to families with status, while her own daughter married a poor scholar. From beginning to end she has almost no say over the shu children in the house. And when she tried to make a move on Gu family (spying over shu children's houses is sth most main wives would do), she was scolded by Grandma and her authority was once again threatened. That's when she lost it.


    Aunti Kang is a result of bad parenting. Wang Grandma spoiled her since she was a child, she has always been the most favored top priority in the family. Wang Grandma never punishes her for wrongdoings, instead she always covers up her messes, coming as far as asking her sons to clean up for their sisters. Her sons have to waste many favors, costing them many chances to ascend in rankings. Aunti Kang never has to take any responsibility for her action all her life. Her husband is a jackass with many concubines and shu children. That's why she is selfish, arrogant, jealous and hateful.


    No characters in this drama just appear out of nowhere. They all have backgrounds, upbringings, personalities, reasons and motivations to explain their actions. Some are justified, some are not. But they can all be understood and sympathized (only to a point, of course).


    There's a Chinese saying: "There are guilt in pitiable people, and there are things to pity in guilty people"


    @Golden Flower Your opinion of SH is pretty much paralleled to mine. I'm really glad to have someone supporting my view on the characters that most people deem evil. I just figure out after a while of arguing is that those who don't share the same point of view can never agree with each other, bc the standards they base their judgement on are different and they are affected by feelings (mostly the love for main couple), that's why I wrote my last post. All characters can be justified more or less, and they are too complex to be described in just a few words. One has to understand their backstory, their reasons, the historical context to fully analyze them. That's what I find interesting in this story.



    Latest episode: I understand Daniang's motivation but d*mn she's dumb. After reading the novel and now watching the drama, I still can't understand why she's so stupid, like amazingly stupid.

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  19. @Golden Flower There are 2 types of audiences watching these drama:


    Type 1: Those who are here for the romance between the 2 main leads. They support the main couple's actions in every way possible, whether it's right or wrong, logical or unreasonable. They are fond of the bold and cunning methods. They consider anyone who may bring harm to the main couple as villains and hope for them to disappear ASAP. They most of the time do not care about historical facts and judge characters based on modern standards. They usually lash out at anyone who stands in the main couple's way and feel satisfied seeing their downfall.


    Type 2: Those who are here for the story. They may or may not be very interested in the main couple. They don't focus on the main couple but see them as a part of a bigger picture. They are more interested in world-building rather than romantic development. They are interested in feudal social etiquette and analyze characters and events based on the context of the era.


    The value that people honor are very different in the past. There are things that are considered okay, even noble at the time are unacceptable or ridiculous or stupid from a modern's POV. There are special details that are very strange to foreign viewers and they couldn't know unless they are frequent with Chinese history (watch a few period drama is not enough since it is never explained carefully in the movies. Chinese people study that in literature and history classes). Thus it is sometimes very hard to explain why they do what they do, and why what they do is totally acceptable, and why sometimes our main couple, albeit seem right, are actually standing on the wrong side of the rules. 


    The controversy is, this is the story of a feudal era. However, our main couple have more modern and open-minded personalities. The drama is trying to emphasize how our main couple are different and more advanced than the usual norm. Thus it is totally okay to support our main couple breaking the norm, since this is their strong points. But it is unfair to expect the same from other characters bc when everyone's special, no one is. They are characters born and raised under specific context, and they will act accordingly.


    That's why these 2 types of audiences will keep fighting and can never agree with each other. No one is either right or wrong. They are just using different perspectives.

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  20. 4 hours ago, ForgottenSoulx said:


    I mean he cant be blamed for not taking GTY's extreme plan but he can be blamed for not fighting until the ending for what he believe's in and want's. 


    When ever i see QH now im just wishing he disappears already watching some stupid clown is annoying, know's nothing about politics yet always at the front speaking to the emperor its quite embarrassing. 


    There will always be new good drama's from china so dont worry haha.

    Not everyone is playing the game of thrones. In feudal times, it is very important to a man of honor to protect the law and not waiver in front of power. However evil the ED is, the Emperor is openly breaking the law, so he is bound to be criticized, or else why all the Yu shis are opposing him? So you are saying standing by the law and opposing wrongdoings is an act of a clown? Of course those who are good at political games usually win, but there are those who's standing there not bc of the politics. The ED is an evil power-clinging richard simmons, but the emperor decided to fight back with an equal underhanded method, then exiling everyone for opposing him.


    You think he is a clown bc you don't seem to understand the value and honor of a gentleman in ancient period.

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  21. Some historical facts (for anyone interested):


    TSoML takes place in the Song dynasty, during the transition period from Emperor Renzhong to Emperor Yingzhong. It's a real historical period so there are a few historical events embedded in the story. One such is the court debate in episode 56-57 which was based on a real event.


    From wiki: 

    Emperor Yingzong was the 13th son of Zhao Yunrang (趙允讓; 969–1059), who was a first cousin of Emperor Renzong and was posthumously known as "Prince Anyi of Pu" (濮安懿王). Emperor Yingzong's grandfather, Zhao Yuanfen (趙元份; 966–1005), was a younger brother of Emperor Renzong's father, Emperor Zhenzong, and was posthumously known as "Prince Gongjing of Shang" (商恭靖王). Emperor Yingzong's mother, whose maiden family name was Ren (任), was the concubine of Zhao Yunrang. 


    In 1055, Emperor Yingzong's predecessor, Emperor Renzong, became critically ill and started to worry about having no successor because his sons all died prematurely. Acting on the advice of his ministers, Emperor Renzong agreed to bring two of his younger male relatives into his palace. One of them was the future Emperor Yingzong, who was eventually chosen and designated as the Crown Prince. Yingzong had his name changed to "Zhao Shu" in 1062 when he was officially designated as the Crown Prince. This name became his official name when he ascended the throne in the following year after his adoptive father Emperor Renzong died in 1063.


    Emperor Yingzong's empress consort was Empress Gao, a niece of Empress Dowager Cao who was the widow of Emperor Renzong. As Emperor Yingzong was severely sickly shortly after his coronation, Empress Dowager Cao served as his regent. However, Empress Dowager Cao held onto power even when Yingzong recovered until the Prime Minister Han Qi removed the screen from the audience hall making it impossible for Empress Dowager Cao to attend. She was forced to give power back to Yingzong.


    Emperor Yingzong's reign is known for controversy over the correct rituals to be performed by the emperor for his father. Emperor Yingzong had been adopted by Emperor Renzong, so Emperor Renzong was nominally Emperor Yingzong's father. However, biologically, Zhao Yunrang was Emperor Yingzong's father. Some officials suggested that Emperor Yingzong honour his biological father with the title "Imperial Uncle", but the emperor agreed with Ouyang Xiu and others and decided to honour his biological father as his parent. This was not only an early sign of more conflict during Emperor Xiaozong's reign but also the Great Rites Controversy of the Ming dynasty.


    In this case, Emperor Yingzhong had a valid goal: to take back power from the ED. However, he used an underhanded method. Emperor Yingzhong could only inherit the throne bc he was named Emperor Renzhong's son. His birth father could not have the same status as Emperor Renzhong. His move was an act of ingratitude and against the law. As an Emperor, we was supposed to be the model image of his people, thus this is something he shouldn't have done. He knew the reason was not on his side and he couldn't win the debate so he just simply exiled all Yu shis who opposed him. Back then, Yu shis were considered a moral compass of the Emperor, and the act of exiling Yu shis was considered dishonorable of the Emperor. This event tainted his reputation and remained a scandal til this day. 


    In ancient times what an Emperor fear most is leaving a black mark in history. Thus, however malicious an Emperor is behind curtains, they always had to think of a way to justify their action to have a good name. Emperor Yingzhong should have thought of a cleverer way to achieve his goal, instead of openly breaking the law and straighforwardly exiling whoever opposed him. This event also acts as a premise for a similar situation happen in the Ming dynasty, resulted in many people dead, imprisoned or banished.


    His action was very much criticized by scholars in feudal times. However from a modern POV, this was not such a big deal.

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  22. @curiouser9

    QH is intelligent but he's also a book worm and he follow the code strictly. Although I think he's not very politically smart.


    For example the latest debate in court when the Emperor wanted to name his late birth father Emperor. According to the rules, when a man with status has no son, he can adopt his close relative as his son to be his heir (like when stepmom wanted eldest brother to adopt 3rd brother's son). When a man has been registered under a different father, his ties with his original parents are officially cut. He is not allowed to even call his birth parents father and mother, cuz he would be considered not filial to his current official father, whose title and asset he inherits. So in this case, QH was totally by the book when he said the Emperor had to call his birth father uncle.


    However, the situation with the Emperor is rather special. He is now, in name, the late Emperor's son, so what's he's doing is wrong, but the whole process leading to this is unusual and of course the Emperor also has extraordinary status. His goal is to establish power against the ED. Whether or not to support his action depends on the flexibility of each politician. I can see some officials behind GTY (including CB) seemed to want to voice their opinions but GTY told them that this had been discussed over with the Emperor, so they decided to back out. This indicates they were against the Emperor's action, but then decided to go with the flow. 


    I'm not sure what to feel about QH's action in this. On one hand I want him to just shut up and step down cuz this was better for him. He is putting himself in danger tangling in all of this. This is clearly putting him on the opposite side of the Emperor. And I don't want to see him helping the ED, intentionally or not. On the other hand, I would feel really disappointed if he also kept his mouth shut like everyone else. 


    Some history fun facts: QH's position right now, a Yu shi, is a rather interesting position in ancient imperial court. Their job is to find other officials' fault and report them, so they are not very likable. Furthermore, they also usually criticize the Emperor, since this is to them the utmost proof that they are honest and brave. So even emperors don't like them (of course there are flexible Yu shi). The higher the status of the person they accuse (successfully) the faster they ascend through rankings. To a Yu shi, the most honorable mission is si jian, meaning to die while trying to stop the Emperor from wrongdoings. But most of the time they are just exaggerating things up.


    P/S: This time even ML disapproved of the Emperor.

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  23. Aunti Kang is a perfect example of how a faulty upbringing can ruin a person's life.


    Aunti Kang was Wang grandma's favourite child (Wang grandma is Daniang and Aunti Kang's mother) and she was very much biased towards her. She raised her exactly the was Stepmom raised GTY (with good intentions though): pampering her, giving her everything she wanted, never punishing her for her wrongdoings. Therefore she grew up looking down on everyone, even her own siblings. She considered them no more than underlings to order around. Even after Aunti Kang got married and moved out, Wang grandma was still very protective of her. Everytime Aunti Kang stirred up troubles, Wang grandma would go ask her sons to cover it up for their sister. In order to do that, they had to ask favors from many people, resulted in them missing many chances to ascend in rankings. Aunti Kang has never had to take responsibilities for any her actions all her life. Thus she goes around sticking her nose in anything she wants without worrying. If anyone is to blame for this situation, it would be Wang grandma. Later in the poison case you would see how ridiculous she is towards Aunti Kang.

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