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Posts posted by philosophie

  1. LMAOOOOO loved the pregnancy segment. This show is so amazing, in some aspects they may use traditional kdrama tropes but they totally turn them around into something else. This show is very fresh and original. Love the girl characters hair flips and the colorblind secret twist. I was expecting the secret to be something bigger and for woo tak to have some connection to childhood ahjussi but I'm actually quite content with how the writers dealt with everything. Like HJ and Jc's first fight. Their communication is goals when at the end after she hugs him she tells him that she just wanted him to find out so no one jumps to any conclusion. Like others here have said, there is a sense of real ness like the emberassng moments of them coming out in their robes saying I didn't shave my legs or snot. Yeah it's silly but it's so authentic too I love it.


    OMGGGGG mr choi is ahjussi?!!! And here I thought it was the phone thief.


    Who the heck is the real murderer? Lol the only good thing about them is now they're tormenting the lawyer which is great karma after all the craziness hes put others through. oh wow was not expecting it to be a girl. Once again writernims, never fail to disappoint.


    Omg hong Joon thoug! Salajesayo!!! Ughhh can next week come any sooner? Can't believe there's only 10 ep left but everything is coming full circle and I wonder what other intense crazy stuff is going to happen since we have a few more ep left.

    • Like 8

  2. So Besides considering yi deum may be gap soo' daughter, I also think her mom is still alive. Why would jinwooks mom go so far to stay quiet about it? No idea except that life or death is at stake probably. I hope yi deum and her sunbae are still in touch after they're no longer prosecutors and working together. Probably are since we only have 6 episodes left and I can't deal with anymore scenarios of that bad guys getting away with their major sins.

    • Like 6

  3. 20 hours ago, bebebisous33 said:

    From my point of view, the writer has already developed the whole story hence I don't fear that this drama will get dragged. I was more afraid of the opposite, that the end would be rushed but with the extension, I am convinced that this drama will be good till the end.

    Unlike others, I liked the episode 8 because this was focused on the change of Black. He still views himself as a grim reaper but during the episode, you could sense that his sense of morality and justice won over his obsession for discipline and order. 

    @icyphoenix @philosophie @vangsweetie637 @larus @evie7 @UnniSarah @Lady_Fay @Ais1ing


    I have come to the idea that Leo could have been the one who saved Tiffany and her daughter. How did I come to this? My speculation was that Leo is the son of a former grim reaper. His father used to be a human grim reaper which means that he killed himself before. So when his son was born, Leo's ability was to see people who would commit suicide. I notice two things:

    - Ji Dong was working as his driver hence Leo could have told the girlfriend that JD would kill himself so that the latter dumped her boyfriend. This triggered the suicide.

    - Then Leo was the one who saved the writer. He even came before Ha Ram.

    Let just say that Leo might have changed due to Ji Dong's suicide. When HMG saw Leo lying on the floor at the hotel, Ji Dong was already dead. I can imagine that he might have realised that he was the reason why Ji Dong committed suicide. So little by little, Leo starts changing. He wants to intervene before they commit suicide. 

    Since we assume that Ha Ram's father is a grim reaper from the upper world, this explains why she has a different ability. She is superior to Leo, as she can see all the shadows and not just the suicide. 

    Let me know what you think about it.

    Amazing theory. I never considered the difference between two classes of grim reapers possessing a human body so that makes a lot of sense how Leo and HR can both be babies of grim reapers but form different classes so their abilities differ too. It could also make sense why HR is so attracted to Leo and his fan (besides his absolute sexiness).


    I also agree about the extentikn. I have high hopes and a lot of faith in the writer that the extension will all work out for the better instead of dragging the plot.


    The thing about this show is that many of the side characters shouldn't be overlooked because they're all connected somehow. This makes the plot more intricate and complex cause you can't skip or else important details will be overlooked and clues will be missed.


    I've considered rewatching the show in hopes of getting some more hints or answers but I feel like I'll just end up with more questions and the answers I'm looking for are not addressed yet (like who is MG really? Who is black? What is really going on?!)

    • Like 5

  4. 1 hour ago, Yeekrfan2 said:


    We can finally 100% sure that our theory of the bride & groom are indeed Ha Ram parents with the latest development where her mom tried to kill a very young Ha Ram....so that make the Grim Reaper her real father indeed.

    That what I'm hoping. What's throwing me off is the fact that SW also lost her parents to a car accident so it may be her parents too since I don't know if that couple survived the wreck.


    Regarding your question about an ideal ending, here's what I have in mind.


    I know I mentioned Goblin before but I really hope they don't do a similiar ending where OTP meets again in a next life or something. Going along with the theory that Joon unwillingly was used as a donor and black is actually Joon, then I am thinking that in the end MG's soul moves on and let's Joon live in his body as a debt for taking his heart and whatnot without permission. HR and Black remain to be a dynamic duo that use his detective and grim repair skills with her special eyes and humanity to prevent anymore unfair death. They are endgame. Maybe also her father shows up and we have a scene with them or he ends up also being in her life. I just feel bad for HR and how alone as well as lonely she has been.


    i don't know what will happen to MS. Maybe he dies, or lives or becomes a grim reaper. I'm kinda iffy about him since the rape allegations and stuff. I just hope everyone gets the ending they deserve. I feel bad for soo wan and I think it would be interesting if her and MG became grim reapers so they get to be together too. I dunno. 

    • Like 7

  5. Hey Chingus! Major n00b over here but also major kdrama addict! I'm loving the revolution of unconventional leads lately and particularly Yi Deum's character.


    But as much as I want o delve in the whole show, I want to stay in the loop and up to date with the current discussion, which is about the recent episodes 9 & 10.


    So here are my thoughts, predictions, theories, questions and whatnot.


    Ep 9:

    So sad that soo ah died :/ I was really bummed about that because I loved her bond with yi deum and it was so sad seeing the socks on her corpse foot that Yi deum gave her. The freaking feels man.


    Kingdom huh? Sounds uber shady for a secret room. 



    And omg tae vs min testimonies, don't even know who to believe.


    UGHHH I despise yeos mom. 


    Also, still considering theory that gap soo is yi deums dad.


    Ep 10:


    Major rollercoaster. No more romance but def more death. Was not expecting time skip and woah whhat is happening?! She's the accused? Oh yi deum what do you have up your sleeve now?!


    • Like 5

  6. 51 minutes ago, sweetcoconut1501 said:

     I wondered it too.. why she asked for his hands?  And i thought the same thing...his heart is from him and not joon..i remembered when the guy who's' been shot by police..Black shouted "NOOOO!" and it made him wondered why he did that.. 

    SO following the theory that MG actually has SC’s heart instead AJ joon, maybe SC knew KSY too since she worked for joons mom as a kitchen helper. ANd he had a crush or follow her around in HS which explains what’s MGs mom says later onabiur MG doing the same in the hospital?




    also....what if MG has Joon’s eyes? So he hasn’t SC’a heart and  joon’s eyes?

    • Like 5

  7. 29 minutes ago, UnniSarah said:

    @bebebisous33.... I agree they do look alike chingu. It kinda freaked me out. If they are connected maybe that is why MG is still alive. Maybe MG’s stepdad is a grim reaper inhabiting someone else’s body???


    Episode 7 and 8 were the most touching scene. This drama has me analyzing everything I see. As I watch this drama I wonder what is the writer trying to tell us. 

      Joon and MG are different ages. Joon’s biological Mom isn’t he loving/obsessive person we see in the present. Who died in the past? Who’s memories are we seeing. The first recollection we saw MG alone in the warehouse watching his gf be roughed up by the transsexual.Then we see Joon and MG together at the warehouse? 


    I wonder if Black was right in the different type of Grimm Reaper. Is it really true there are the ones who are born and the one who commit suicides became Grimm Reaper???? 


    One reason why I believe that Black must be Joon is because 416 was friend with his best friend Seung Cheol. It’s like the writer is has most characters are connected from what happens in Mooji.

    I believe 007 knows more than he is saying and I wonder why he is keeping quiet???? 





    So here are a few theories I have in response to your questions that I have like you. 


    The first memory that MG recalls when we first see a scene about the tape and MG realizes KSY is SW may be from the little boy’s perspective. The reason I think MG’s memory is the little boy because we see through his eyes joon and KSY. Then when black remember, we see the little boy. Which means that Black is seeing it through joon’s Memories (if he actually is joon which explains why he could also see flashback of Joon and HR).


    Now I’ve been thinking about the Grim reaper classes as described by Black/444. Then I started thinking about Goblin and the memory aspect of grim reapers so I came to this new conclusion. there are a class of grim reapers that we’re once human and committed suicide. Because of their cause of death, they do not have amnesia of their human life and still have the memory.


    Then the other class of grim reaper, who apparently 444 is from, are humans (children?) that were unfairly killed and as grim reapers have no memory of human life. So in the end what differitates the class of grim reapers are their cause of death and memory (also age?).


    I am sure as confused as you about all the connections. But the one theory I have for why 007 is keeping quiet is because he was the grim reaper of Black and 416/SC and the time mart collapse. Possibly other moojin related deaths.



    • Like 5

  8. 1 hour ago, Ais1ing said:



    The moment we realise 416 has something to do with the Moojin Time Mart Collapse. Something happened to Joon Oppa to cause him to die young and be reborn as a higher order Grim Reaper. 


    Coincidence that Moo Gang's Mother has a diagram of a heart beside her on the desk? She could be a heart specialist or it could be another clue to the enigma that is Joon Oppa and Moo Gang....




    Okay so here's the thing, if it's true like you're saying that once the kids unfairly die in human form they grow up in their grim reaper form, why does Black look older than 416 if he's Joon and possibly died after/at the same time as 416? Unless Black isn't Joon and he's actually HR's father....lol now I'm just pulling out the absurd possibilities. 


    Love vey that you noticed the heart diagram cause I didn't and wouldn't have known unless you pointed it out. Definetly some sort of sign that either she's a heart specialist or something.

    • Like 6

  9. Aghhh episode 8 was heart wrenching



    first and foremost, what does it mean when black states after his mom leaves and talks to him about soo wan, how his heart beat around her and hurts when he hears her name? Ugh I think I know exactly what it means. That MG's body and heart loves her? Blahh. I mean I know black as a separate entity seems to care more about HR than SW but still it's kinda disappointing that MG's feelings differ, if that's how we should interpret what Black is experiencing via MG.



    now for MS. Who thinks here that he is guilty? I really wish he wasn't but something tells me he's suspicious from the nail mark (?) on his collar area like Tiffany was trying to fight him off. Part of me suspect Leo only because I still have that scene in my head of MG leaving the hotel room while Leo looks like he is dying. MG wouldn't leave someone to die unless Leo was a bad guy or something. Or the scene is once again misinterpreted. Oh also another red flag is that his father wants him to inherit the company. Maybe it's because MS is most like his father compared to his hyung.


    Dammit the little girl died, or did she? I was hoping it would be a farce like the episode when Black is underwater and we think he's dead but then he isn't. However when Black goes to confront MS that's when I really believed the mom and daughter were gone. Also sidenote, I'm shocked about what HRs mom did to her and I really feel bad for HR. Is there anyone around her that doesn't have their own agenda? Blahhh I'm like in mourning. It was an intense episode and I wish there was more because my curiosity and confusion has not been minimized whatsoever. If anything, it's increAsed



    • Like 6

  10. @bebebisous33

    I like your theory that the same moment Black discovers he may be Joon, is the same time that HR realizes MG is not Joon. How ironic would that be for an identity crisis like that?!


    Also for your theory about the killer with the spider tattoo, was he trying to get revenge for HRs police dad or another policeman? And he is the one that assasinated HR's dad? 


    So if the other theory that Leo is the son of the spider guy, then Leo's dad killed Hr's dad and that's their connection?


    I totally agree that maybe the same time Joon and MG visit town is the same time that HR has to move away due to her mom leaving and dad dying or something.  Cause it doesn't seem like MG went to the same school as Joon or HR so the only time she met him was when she went to joons new house and he appeared behind her. That could have been before they came to visit her and she moved away. Hypothetically.


    okay now off to watch ep 8 now that it's finally subbed and get more clues or answers or something. Will be back to post more thoughts again. Sorry for spamming so many posts, just afraid I'll forgot my train of thought. Also sorry for the last post with huge letters, tried to edit and change size but wasn't able to.

    40 minutes ago, nona88 said:

    let add what we get this week too 

    the reason HR can't see BLACK hidden in MG body wasn't  cause the black clothes okay that we know from the start :joy:  , it  was cause BLACK was her grim reaper who was supposed to take her soul , she can't see her own shadow , that the same reason she didn't know that MG going to die too , it was it  444's WHO supposed to take the two souls when she was young she saw that when she touch her mother cause there was two different grim reapers one on her mother and one on her '

    so they really didn't make the stupid idea of black clothes as reason


    really the genius grim reapers  who thoughts and ways sure and proud that the reason is the BLACK clothes i can't get stop my self 



    and MS father was unhuman person who did so many crime and crazy things in the past i understand why MS brother hate him so much now , he killed and destroy many innocent people without even feelling anythings , he a monster and now MS brother trying to hide everythings that can destory everythings they made all this years cause his crazy father doing in the past , but really boy you doing the same you hidden the ture and destroy so many lives to protect your  

    But how come she could see 444 when he was next  to her ex before he was hit by a truck? Was it because he wasn't assigned to MG and HR yet as their grim reaper?

    • Like 1

  11. Ep 7 thoughts (wanted to watch it once ep 8 was out too so I could see them in a row):


    So Black is stuck in the body BUT he can't die? Has accelerated healing?? But even though he has immortality, he lost some grim reaper abilities like teleportation? A little complicated and whatnot but okay I'll go with it writernims.


    I really think that the joseon firm reaper knows alloooot more than he lets on. And I think this mission goes beyond finding the MIA lower rank grim reaper. Maybe this joseon reaper is supposed to help Black bring retribution for all the innocent lives taken or destroyed by Moojin?


    Some screenshots I took of joseon reaper that rose my suspicions that he knew more:





    OMG random thought, but is the joseon reaper HR's dead dad (following the theory that she's an offspring of a human inhabited by a grim reaper aka her detective pops)?!


    I'm thinking either way, her father is currently a grim reaper but with possible amnesia because of the whole grim reaper looses memory when they die in human body rule. Or her father in grim reaper form possessed a new body. So I'm looking out for both but the joseon dude is my only suspect so far lmao.


    Poor Doc, it wasn't enough in childhood but now you're back to square 1 in a room with psychos abusing you. Who is the sans middle finger killer talking to? Anyone have any ideas or visuals of the big baddie he's working for? Butterfly watch man?


    LMFAOOOOO majorly @ black's failed driving attempts. Don't worry hun, I was exactly you when I started to learn how to drive and I'm not even from another dimension so kudos to you.


    Love this kind of comic relief in such a tense and mysterious plot. And then we have the romance too. Ughhhh for once I actually like the wrist grab move when Black took HR's hand away from MS. Hehe now you might realize why you thought of her before you died in the water, Black.


    So this may have been shown previous episodes, but it seems MG's mom is the doctor of MS's camatose dad. Also seems she's been his physician for awhile. 


    Is it possible (following heart transplant theory) that joons mom was purposely arrested and put in jail so he could be put in custody of mom and be used for heart transplant?


    Just confirming because I've been a bit confused of this, HR's mom is still alive and she is the nurse right? She abandoned HR after her dad died or before? And now she's remarried and the cute lil chubby guy is her step dongsaeng?


    Wow @ that scene between black and swung cheuls dad. It resonated with me when the father said there was no word for parents who have lost their children like there are for orphans and widowers.




    Overall I feel like this episode made Black start to follow the same path MG was on before he died, which was justice for the victims of moojin and other big baddies corrupt crimes. When he threw the photos in the air, that's when I knew that he's gonna start getting involved too like MG was.
    • Like 2

  12. 2 hours ago, bebebisous33 said:

    I am talking about the car accident in the prologue of the episode 2. To me, this is the start of the whole tragedy.

    In my opinion, when HMG/Black discovers the body in the sea, it is Joon's body. If the theory with the heart transplant is correct, then let us imagine that the organ transplant was illegal. They adopted Joon in order to harvest his heart. But they hid his body in the sea. As a doctor, no one would ever control the origin of the organ transplant.


    We learnt the close relationship between KSY and Joon in the episode from last week. This woman  reminded her that Joon's mother had offered to help her financially for her studies but since she was in jail, she could no longer do it. Therefore KSY changed her mind and accepted to undress herself in front of the camera. Back then, the woman mentioned that KSY was an orphan and that her parents had died in a car accident. 



    Woah so I just realized this. Was the couple from the car accident KSY's parents then? And black had looked into KSY's mom's eyes?


    So I rewatched ep 6 to see if it was Mg or joons mom and it was joons mom that was gonna help KSY financially. Screenshots from ep:







    It it seems like KSY was a kitchen helper at joon's mom's place. Now I'm wondering, is joons mom still alive? Where is she now?


    Oh yeah, also I noticed people mentioning the tape is in the time capsule. But wasn't the tape the one that was in the storage room that the butterfly watch guy was able to get back (we see scene of him pausing the video)? If they already have the tape, why would it be in time capsule? Or was it in time capsule before MG died and got the tape? Or is there just Nother tape besides the one with KSY in it?



    As for chronology, now I'm realizing things may be a little mixed up. Like when Ha Ram visits Seoul to see Joon and the little boy  in white (Mg?) comes up behind her to see what she is looking at, which is Joon and his new mom in front of gate of house. Then there's the flashback of the little boy and Joon going into the elementary school then also digging up time capsule. Was that before Joon moved or after he moved and after HR went to Seoul to see him?


    i kinda hate how they're giving us fragments of the past that may not be in chorological order. It also doesn't help I'm watching while you were sleeping and witch's court which also have their respective crime arcs so I'm kinda all mixed up at the moment.

    • Like 3

  13. 3 hours ago, bebebisous33 said:

    @Ngoc Anh Thanks for the video!! I love it! :heart:


    Only Ha Ram can be able to fall in love with Black.  We are all asking ourselves who is Black. Joon? HMG?

    Actually, Black is not HMG, not Joon... he is just 444, the grim reaper from the upper world.

    Right now, HR believes that HMG/Black is Joon hence she calls him "oppa" but once she discovers his true identity, she will have to face a crisis. On the other hand, Black only considers himself as 444, the grim reaper from the upper world. Once he realises that he was a human too in the past, he will also question his identity.

    From my point of view, it would be better if Ha Ram loves Black, the grim reaper with the memories from Joon/HMG... because Black is neither Joon nor HMG. He is a combination in the end... 

    I like the idea of @philosophie that when HR met HMG later, he was a combination of Joon and HMG due to the heart transplant. I tend to think that HMG was the little boy with the heart of Joon, hence his heart would hurt while seeing SW. The little boy has always liked SW but Joon has always been close to KSY, as his mother supported her before going to jail. So when HMG died, he died with Joon's heart.

     Therefore Ha Ram saw Joon's death. His love for HR left his body... However, he had never forgotten her. Consequently, HMG could repeat the exact same words from Joon as his heart had recognised his loved one. This would also explain why HMG was so furious after realising that he was dead. He told Black, he had to see her in order to ask her how she could do that to him... maybe killing Joon whom HMG considered as his big brother. The "she" was referring to his mother.

    @nona88 As for the chronology:

    - First the car accident with the newly wedded couple and a possession.

    - Second, the grim reaper in a human body has to hide his secret. He seeks the help of minions therefore he gives watches to chairman Oh, director Woo and (my hypothesis) the senator Nam Joong Pyo.

    - Third, the opening of the cafe "Pumpkin" belonging to Clara. Clara helps Han Jin Sook. Clara is the link between the prostitution ring and the collapse of the mall in Moojin.

    - Joon's mother is sent to jail

    - SW is struggling hence she decides to join the prostitution ring. She gets raped and the crime is recorded. The tape is stolen by KSY and she threatens the rapist. The woman gets frightened and wants to force KSY to give back the tape. But she is killed which KSY must have witnessed. In my opinion, KSY must have given the tape to Joon so that the latter hides it in the time capsule. During this time, Joon gets adopted. His new mother, the doctor, is from Seoul consequently he leaves Moojin.

    Clara receives the visit of the Mall director Woo who bribes people to have a poor construction.

    - Ha Ram witnessed the shadows of SC and warns him to avoid the Moojin mall. SH, the rapper dies there along with SC. The collapse happened after the departure of Joon.

    In my opinion, Joon must have come with the little boy (HMG) to Moojin in order to show him the time capsule. Back then, Joon was not suffering from amnesia because he remembered the place of the time capsules. From my point of view, the mother must have hidden the letters from him. I believe that Joon was adopted for the organ transplant. 


    Thank you for organizing the chronology. For the car accident at the beginning,you're talking about the one where black/444 accidentally looks into the eyes of a human in love? I'm sorry Im gonna take that 'something bad will happen f you look in the eyes of a human in love' with a grain of salt because I already starting to question the thing where there's two levels of rim reapers and the ones likeBlack were 'born like that.' Makes more sense if like our chingus theorized, his class of reapers are children unfairly killed.


    Now the reason I ask about the car accident because there's also the accident that Moo Gang investigates in the first episode with us assuming maybe one of the dead bodies is Joon, there have definetly been a lot of car accidents and such in general so it's kinda hard to decipher how everything is connected and why it all matters.


    about Joons mom supportingSW/KSY, in what episode do we learn about this? When was Joon close to KSY? I know there was that scene of Ha Ram crying to Joon oppa cause he was talking about a girl and a lot of us figure since each scene is so important, it was probably about KSY.


    i like your idea that 1) MG's last words were about his mom and 2) his mom was the one that was keeping all the letters


    what I am really confused about are the killers cause besides the spider guy, they all kinda look the same! And I really like the theory that the watches are a symbol of allegiance to one main grim reaper possessing a human body. Before I always thought there was just one watch and it belong to the main villain. Also, how many crimes did Moo Jin commit? There was child pornograhy ring, hostage/kidnapping situation, fire(? When swung cheul and other students all did when Ha Ram sees shadows), car accidents, ....and more?

    • Like 3

  14. 3 hours ago, nona88 said:


     dear if my crazy idea was right i think that the rapper boy is really 416's but seung cheul isn't BLACK ,  if seung cheul is friend with the rapper boy and JOON that mean that JOON was also a friends with rapper boy ( so much connecting i am losing it even withen my own ideas) 

    now if my idea was right that make me more thinking that JOON is BLACK , joon was the death  body in that car  

    but who know it all still a crazy idea (


     welcome to my lost  world , i  just can;t handle how much everyone connecting to each other , so many i mean  more then so many fate playing here , like all the crazy things coming back from 20 years ago . i can't get who will be good or bad by the end i have feeling that i am going to agree with BLACK about how he see human as  a low Creatures , don't get me wrong i don''t say that we are like this ( yeh we human ) but how i am going to say to BLACK you are wrong after all that , he now acting more fair and more Humanity than human himself what he did by the end when he help the true to be out was something that other even people who were also victims tried to bury all this years , BLACK seeing HR as the only human he don't feel that he hate here has  a reason i think i get how much he saw from human to think they never live on even the simples rules of Humanity

    the connecting , the chart , what happening i am getting so much confusing every ep's i am trying to make time line  but even when i understand more it make me feel so lost in all this connecting between everyone

     Her thought about it until now, but it would totally make sense if hip hop grim reaper is actually Joon' and ha rams childhood friend, seung check.

    2 hours ago, kdramaqueennn said:

    Hello chingus, just joined this forum because I can’t stand still to watch alone.. I might died of confusion but this drama is really awesome.. I never watched Go Ara’s acting neither Song Seung Heon before to tell you the truth and had no interest whatsoever.. but after seeing episode 1 I just keep watching it and can’t wait for the next episodes , and must tell you from a person who has been watching kdrama since coffee prince time I must say their acting is daebak here.. especially SSH , he totally nailed it as ‘black’ .


    Now I want to share my theory about ‘black’ being Joon, I do really think so that he is Joon, but the heart inside his body was actually moo gang , that’s why he feel something in his heart about that woman ( moo gang’s girlfriend, I forgot her name ) , but what’s left in his brain was Joon, thats why he still remembered what happened in moojin , and the joseon grim reaper also said that’s why he keep having dreams about his childhood, it was because he is joon and his memory calling him to come out, and probably next time he will remember ha ram too in his dreams , well that’s just my opinion chingus , because I seen similarity in joon’s character and black somehow, and another crazy thought is this, I think there was this heart transplant , so joon’s heart died with moo gang’s body , and become grim reaper, but they saved moo gang’s heart and live in joon’s body , that’s why the body appearance and face that we see as ‘black grim reaper’ was actually similar too the little kid , moo gang, because if it was joon that has died , supposedly the black grim reaper appearance was similar to joon’s in childhood right?  so in my opinion it was actually moo gang body that has died, but the heart is in joon’s body that still live , that’s why he supposed to eat medicine and pills to keep his heart alive , and maybe forgot the past , so he will think as moo gang, and one day after 20 years , their souls collide, moo gang body that has died but own joon’s heart, go back to it’s place ,the joon’s body , and his brain also reacting , I think it was fate and Ha Ram plays an important role to bring back joon’s heart to it’s place, remember that night when she wants to hang herself she was so sad because joon died and she ‘call’ him to comeback , at that night joon’s heart / soul come back to it’s body, that was my opinion chingu.. and I hope it make sense , well if it’s not I do really hope that black is joon anyway so that he really could have a long relationship with ha ram , can’t wait till they opened their time capsule together and hopefully joon will remember ha ram 



    Okay so so here's the thing. I am split between Moo Gang being Moo Gang or actually Joon.


    reasons why Moo Gang is Moo Gang:

    -the perspective of his memories make it seem like he was the little boy in white shirt

    -his obsession with his case, like that secret storage room with all that evidence and stuff 

    -not recognizing ha Ram 

    -dating soo wan and her memories of him about his heart and whatnot

    -his last words


    reasons why Moo Gang is Joon:

    -a lot of people use the reason that Moo Gang isn't Joon because of his choice of food, but Ha Ram. Mentions to black when he eats that blood sousage soup or whatever that he never ate that before. Now I don't know if she means that before black possessed Moo Gang, they had went out to eat and he couldn't stand the food (if so I forgot the scene) but it sounds like Ha Ram is referring to when they were kids and taste buds of the past

    -the red bracelet coming off Moo gang's wrist shortly after black possession. It was like it was saying Moo Gang was no longer Joon.

    -same symbolism in the dream of Joon (but then again it could also mean that Joon is back through black possessing MG if the theory s true that Black is Joon so the dream could mean something else)

    -Black being able to see the memory of Joon and Ha rams first meeting. This either because he's feeling MGs memories and mg is really Joon or because its blacks own past life memories.

     -and then the detective!!! Remember how it is revealed Joon promises to be a detective like her dad? If mg is mg, why did he become a detective then?

    • Like 6

  15. 31 minutes ago, Ais1ing said:



    Welcome to confusion central :tongue:  We really have no idea what's what AND thank you for bursting that theory about Joon being Black in a previous life .... I salute your cool logic  crazy-monkey-emoticon-022.gif **back to the drawing board on that one** 


    Subs are out on Viu now so I'm off to watch the latest installment of this puzzle... I will say one thing ----> I hope they don't leave all the questions unanswered to the last episode... That would leave a bitter taste in my mouth and cause many to tune out...  


    Haha glad to know I'm not the only one lost! I want to rewatch it but like you said, it may not make total sense until like the last episode or when everything is revealed. So even if I do rewatch it I would still be confused. Like the constant subliminal mentioning of Leo. Who is he really that he has such a vital presence? Or serves as what kind of plot device? And is it just me or does the guy sans a middle finger look a little like haram's dad?


    I noticed the relationship chart up the page but it's in Korean so I can't really understand it and the pictures are a little blurry to me. I am kinda still confused with how everything is connected and what exactly the story is right now. Sheesh i just wanted me some grim reaper romance to fill me goblin withdrawals but now this is turning out sag more complicated than I could have ever anticipated!

    • Like 5

  16. Hey oppas, unnies, and chingus. I just joined this site and it's my first time posting so bear with me. I can't handle watching this show alone. Not only is it intense and mysterious but it is mind boggling too. I know right now the biggest theory is that Joon died and he is the dead body from the car in the first episode. Moo Gang is the little boy from the memories and he may possibly also have Joon's heart. And that Black is actually the deceased Joon. But if that is the case, why in the world did Moo Gang tell the doc (soo wan?) about his heart beating for her or whatever in the memory she recalls?  Also if Moo Gang had Joon's heart, following the 'cellular memory' trope that a lot of kdramas do, wouldn't he be kind of incapable of at least getting attached to the doc to where after death he says he still needs to speak to her (who I'm guessing is the doc, or could be that adult woman that was abusing the teen her or even Ha Ram since it was major sketchy that Moo Gang was in the hotel room while Leo was overdosing or whatever that was). And if there was a heart transplant, why did he mention it in his adult form (in soo wants memory when he's in the hospital) if he would have gotten the heart transplant as a child? The only reason why I think Moo Gang is the younger boy/not Joon is because when he remembers the scene where s the tape, his perspective is seeing Joon witnessing the scene with him and later on in Blacks recollection, we see the little boy was with Joon during that scene. Also would explain why Moo Gang never recognizes Ha Ram from childhood or mention the memories they both had if he were Joon.


    Now, this is only speculation but I am considering the reverse. That Moo Gang is actually Joon who gained a new identity and may have amnesia from before the hostage/child pornographers ring memory. The amnesia could have occurred during Soo wans memory of when Moo Gang is in the hospital commenting about his heart. Maybe he got amnesia or something had (obviously) happened to make him end up in the hospital in the first place. 

    What stuck with me too was during the scene that Black possesses Moo Gang's body, we see little Joon in a dream with Big Ha Ram. Like he was saying goodbye before dying right? So doesn't that mean Moo Gang was Joon?


    another thing that struck me that Moo Gang is actually Joon is the red bracelet scene when Back  in MG's body moves his wrist away and the red bracelet symbolically comes off. 


    If MOo Gang is actually Joon then Black is the little boy.


    i don't know, I'm just so confused and I would love to hear from you guys your thoughts, predictions and theories.



    • Like 6
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