[[Drama 2018] Mr. Sunshine, 미스터 션샤인 - Winner of Critics’ Choice Award for Drama category]

Hi Soompiers!  Can't believe it's already one week since the finale of Mr. Sunshine (why you needed to remind us @rubie????)

 

Now that I've more-or-less calmed down (not really, but calm enough not to post random reaction gifs) from the aftermath of Mr. Sunshine (can't say the same for AS and other fictional- and real- people having to endure 30-40 years of Japanese oppression of Korea), I've couple of more things to say regarding the overall progression and message of the drama.

 

Standard disclaimer:

1. Apologies in advance for the long post AND multiple quotes. 

2. Please let me know if I've missed any significant plot point and/or characterization.

 

15 hours ago, rubie said:

Hello @viba, welcome to MR.SUNSHINE soompi! LOL! We don't shoot! Really good to read your well-said thoughts and can't agree more about what you wrote about killing off heroes in tv shows. That is totally true, particularly when we watched how the characters grow, adapt and change accordingly. It's just that, I remember reading long time ago that Korean productions (drama and movies, particularly) have an affinity with dying endings because it deliver more impact that people will remember the most. Can't say how true is that because I certainly could not vouch for it. Nope.. not after 23 episodes of (fictionally) anticipating and hoping.

 

Anyway, thank you so much for finding us here and writing out to rant/heal about the ending. You may not feel better yet but it does make others feel less in denial. It's still along way to go.. sigh.. but we're here, trying to understand.

 

 

Hi @rubie. Sorry to cut your post into two.

 

As far as endings are concerned, I prefer logical endings, be it happy or sad.  I become annoyed with the idea of throwing out "sad"/dying endings for the sake of throwing a "memorable punch" that viewers would "never forget".  i mean, we already deal with real life throwing ambiguous, "memorable" punches at us; we don't need this kind of ending in K-dramas (or any fictional work) if it's not necessary.  Similarly, I get peeved whenever I see dramas or movies (usually K-dramas) with overly filler, sappy endings in which the protagonists suddenly condone, forgive, or even become friendly with villains or other characters who have "last-minute, nonsensical" redemption despite spending the majority of the drama harassing, sabotaging and/or even attempting to kill said protagonists.

 

Again, Mr. Sunshine took place in a tumultuous era in Joseon Korea during which the Joseon people and government were grappling with the inevitable Japanese annexation, their own fallacies within their social classes and affairs, and betrayals/abandonment from their own people and potential allies including the U.S.  So, I would not have expected a full-blown happy ending in which all the villains (the Japanese government/army conducting and condoning their atrocities, Wan Ik, Takeshi Mori, etc.) die off before successfully conquering Korea, while our beloved characters, including AS and EC, sail off into the sunset (no pun intended here) unscathed without any PTSD.  Also, I appreciate that KES did not shy away from depicting the pain, trauma, and outrage toward all those situations the Joseon people faced from both the Japanese and their own kind (and, to a lesser extent, the U.S. and other foreigners staying in Joseon Korea); after all, the current Japanese government continues whitewashing the history of the 30-40 year Japanese conquering of Korea, thus leaving most Japanese citizens (and others around the world including the U.S. who don't usually cover that time period in their history curriculum) unaware about the true extent of the Japanese atrocities in Korea back then.

 

Nonetheless, I could have accepted EC's death (and that of HS, DM, HN, and even Haman and Mr. Haengrang) if it was not portrayed as partly (of course not entirely, but still) due to AS' increasing disconnect from EC and her loved ones during her lone quest for Joseon independence  (while she joined the RA, she somewhat felt as though she didn't belong there either).  I get that AS did not want EC, Haman, and other loved ones to get captured, tortured, and/or killed by the Japanese army because of their relations with her- hence, the separation and refusal to fully divulge her plans.  However, given EC's past strategic takedowns (i.e., planting Emperor/King Gojong's letter in the villianous Minister Lee's household to implicate Minister Lee for "treason") and Haman and Mr. Haengrang's constant "parenting" of AS in earlier episodes, AS should have considered that EC, Haman, Mr. Haengrang, and others who cared about her would not just let AS risk her own life alone without doing something to help her, whether or not they understand or agree with her cause.  Otherwise, why would Haman and Mr. Haengrang return from their refuge in Manchuria and offer to divert the Japanese army from locating any RA fighters at the expense of their own lives!?

 

Last but not least, however poignantly KTR (AS) and LBH (EC) acted out their farewell (with a moving musical score/OST to boot ), that train scene could've either been avoided or handled differently had AS directly informed EC of her plans for evacuating the remaining RA fighters and their family members via train.  As a former U.S. soldier with military expertise, EC would have offered alternatives for plotting their escape while evading Japanese capture.  And it goes without saying (as it's been mentioned by other Soompiers here) about how EC could've just shoved the hostage towards the Japanese army in the other train cart and then shoot/disconnect the train carts while staying in the same cart with AS and others!!!!!!!  However dire and seemingly doomed the fight for Joseon independence would be (as reflected in real life, unfortunately), AS could have had at least one comrade she personally cared for and vice versa who would be willing to support her cause and stay by her side throughout the rest of the fight/drama; and who else other than her steadfast betrothed EC!  Not to mention that AS and EC could have had future descendants of the sun (pun intended here, ) looking onward with adult Domi (perhaps it's just me, but Kim Min Jae somewhat resembles BYH (HS)) and carrying out the spirit and legacy of their cause for Joseon independence from Japanese oppression.  So many missed opportunities here, KES...

 

15 hours ago, rubie said:

Saturday is here again. There's no more MR.SUNSHINE. Just Mr.Sad Ending.  

 

Crying with @Ahpheng ©strips

 

 

 

Thanks for bringing this up; for I have one more critical question that I'm not sure if it was clarified by KES or any Soompiers somewhere in this thread:

 

Why is this drama titled "Mr. Sunshine"?

 

Other than AS absentmindedly saying "Mister...sunshine" towards the end of Ep. 10 while learning "S" and reeling over EC's past revelation, what was KES's message behind both the drama and the title of this drama?  Because, as you said, it sure didn't end with "rainbows and sunshine", especially when the aforementioned "Mr. Sunshine" died (in a poignant but still arguably illogical manner for a U.S. soldier who had shown instances of strategic takedowns in previous episodes)! 

 

Seriously, though, I am curious as to why KES chose this title to reflect the overall message of this drama.  What did "Mr. Sunshine" represent?  If it's strictly referring to EC only, then what did he do for the sake of the main plot, including RA movement in Joseon, that would earn him the title "Mr. Sunshine", aside from AS' brief "reference" which was way before EC started reconciling with his dire past in Joseon and training the Joseon army?

[[Drama 2018] Mr. Sunshine, 미스터 션샤인 - Winner of Critics’ Choice Award for Drama category]

Hi Soompiers.  Well, I can't say that my overall viewing experience of Mr. Sunshine was a smooth one, but I'm glad to have shared this experience with you and hear all your insight and updates on the trajectory of the drama.  So, thank you for staying together with me during those increasingly tough, heartbreaking, and (expected but still) shockingly vicious moments towards the end of the drama.

 

Also, shout out to the cast and crew for bringing to life the rich storyline and characterizations that embody the plight and virtue (or lack thereof- Wan Ik, I'm looking right at you...) of those striving to persevere through the inevitable downfall of Joseon Korea in the hands of the Japanese.

 

And, objectively speaking, thanks KES for exploring this historical context and not shying away from portraying both the cruel, systematic oppression of Japanese regime and the daunting fallacies of Joseon as a society that had more-or-less forsaken and made enemies of their own people including DM, the treacherous Wan-Ik (not excusing any of his vile actions, but given his butcher class background, he probably figured, "To hell with Joseon that will otherwise abandon me") and almost EC (as a U.S. soldier and former Joseon slave, he did have the chance to leave Joseon with the U.S. at the expense of forgoing his relationship/future with AS).  For the most part, KES outdid herself amidst the sea of all of those renowned romfests (Heirs, Secret Garden, DOTS, Goblin, etc.) that I normally roll my eyes over, with the exception of City Hall (but then again, Kim Sun-ah and Cha Seung-won are love and life...).

 

All pleasantries- and well-wishes to the cast and crew who deserve acclaims for their dedication and hard work (despite TVN probably not hosting their own end-of-the-year award shows, but there are other TV/movie award ceremonies like Baeksang and Blue Dragon Award to look forward to in 2019!)- aside, my reaction to the finale, particularly the train scene, is the same as when watching AS' attempt at crossing over to Japan under the pretense of beseeching EC to take her with him to the U.S. towards the end of Ep 18 Ep. 20.  For those of you who are wondering what I'm talking about (since that reaction post is somewhere on p. 118 of this Soompi thread, here's a refresher in the spoiler below:

Spoiler

 

For more on this, I'll respond to the following quoted posts below:

 

2 hours ago, aurelionsol said:

What I just saw... raw version (no translation), no logic/realism. I know that Eugene said her something before his death, she also said something during the training of new RA members, but it will not be enough for me... I dont need to know the meaning because I feel disappointed with the development of events in Mr Sunshine. I saw many sad endings... but this was tragically made by writers.

 

 

 

Very bad ending - script and many strange scenes (too many to mention). I don't understand the last episode - totally unpleasant and spoil the impression Mr Sunshine (first half of the series was ok but later it was only worse, the last three episodes are totally mess). Hina once said that "a sad ending leaves a significant mark" or something similar but the writers only spoiled this ending.

The writers point of view disappointed me. I will skip death of the rest of characters. It was sad (Hina, HS, DM, Eun-san, servants - palanquin) but I'm very annoyed and disappointed by something else in Mr Sunshine. I really liked the characters Eugene and Ae-Shin in many episodes... but what they did in the last three episodes is completely destroying of these characters (my support for them and their difficult/complicated love went to waste because of forced script and bizarre point of view KES). She began to behave strangely after the 16-17 episode (her disappearance for half a year was a big mistake and later an attempt to use Eugene, I wanted her senses to return after Japan and I thought that she was back on the right path but ending of series finish off my mind) and he began to follow her and stopped be smart, rational...

 

Train: another suicide mission, she is one of the most wanted people in the country (a normal person would ask the Emperor for help and secretly leave the country because she ceased to be useful and she is married - this make sense, Eugene followed her and lost his life this time - WTF)

 

Why didn't he order japanese soldiers drop their rifles (he is a former high-ranking American officer not moron!). Writers had to come up with something stupid and comical because it didn't make sense. 

After his death, she still fights and can die every day - it's so stupid.  Why did he sacrifice his life?

She trains next generations of RA like he did and I have to be satisfied with it? I don't buy it. As a viewer I am devastated by the solution of many scenes in episode 23-24 and previous ones.

I have the impression that they killed all the people around Ae-Shin so that she would still fight (revenge, homeland, no one was left) and that's what I got out of the last episode - disappointment. We don't even know what happened to her. They quickly showed 1919 and Domi. What!?! They cut the scenes terribly... 

...

Hmm...

A former slave (sad youth), considered to be a stranger (still in the last episode oO), had to die for a weird reason (no sense to me) to be appreciated by the country and society. Of course he was loved by a noblewoman and he devoted everything for her. It is a pity that he suffered more often because of her than he was happy.

Noblewoman (she lost parents, family, home) devoted private happiness to her homeland and loved the former slave (even married him). Of course, she had to devoted everything for the country and behave more and more strangely. 

Typically for Korean series, several things have been either cut or forgotten (English school, emperor's adviser, uncle Ae-Shin and many more). Where is the logic here?

I feel as if through lack of audience they ordered to shorten the series and flattened threads and killed almost all of the main characters. In the last episode, I also saw a lot of mistakes (implementation) which is terrible for the series created by the year. 

 

 

Hi @aurelionsol.  Sorry to cut some of your post with ... due to length...

See, that's what I was afraid we'd see when addressing the Ep. 24 preview somewhere on p. 139 of this thread.  The only consolation I could gather from all this was that EC kept on trying to reassure AS that he'd support her cause and stand by her side as much as possible despite knowing what he'd get himself into.

 

That being said, I wish AS did consider not just EC's circumstances and thoughts but also that of Haman and others who have cared for her instead of just deciding to detach herself from them "for their own safety" while staying with the RA.  While AS had good intentions of evacuating her loved ones (EC, Haman, etc.) away from the Japanese, she should have realized that her loved ones- namely EC, Haman, and Mr. Haengrang-, as well as the "unlikely heroes"- specifically, HS and DM- , would not just let AS risk her life alone without intervening despite having little or no reason to fight for Joseon independence.  Let's face it, Haman and Mr. Haengrang would not have returned from Manchuria and ultimately offered themselves as bait to distract the Japanese from finding any Joseon RA members IF AS had chosen to run away with them and her family to Manchuria rather than stay in Joseon to fight with the RA.  And, btw, I did cry over Haman's final moments with AS in today's episode , as opposed to just raging incessantly over scenes of Japanese slaughter of Gunner Jang Seung-gu and others .

 

If not sometime between Ep. 20 and Ep. 22 (with all those 6-month, 3-year, and other timely separations that could've otherwise been spent on AS and EC working together towards their future while evading Japanese capture and not worrying Haman and other loved ones), then the beginning of today's episode should have been a turning point for AS to reconsider whether or not it's worth continuing her long-ingrained fight for Joseon independence at the expense of losing more of her loved ones vowing to stay by her side despite her trying to dissuade them.  Of course, that's a moot point to discuss any further, now that all of her loved ones (and "unlikely heroes" like HS, DM, and HN) basically died for her despite having little or no individual cause in Joseon.  Not to mention that EC and AS have no child (or kiss scene, for that matter; what gives, KES!? ) who could remember and carry onward their legacy to future descendants (of the sun...no pun intended here...).  As shown in the end, AS will continue soldiering her fight for Joseon independence (I guess, cheers to K-netizen viewers championing AS and the RA as some symbolic embodiment of Korean perseverance before and during the 30-40 year Japanese control of Korea) without having to worry more about the safety or whereabouts of her past or future loved ones; for said past loved ones already died, and there are no little future ones of AS and EC in sight (unless I'm mistaken; please let me know, Soompiers!)...

 

Furthermore, as you mentioned, EC died as both a former Joseon slave with no reparations from the Joseon government and society, and a "disgraced" U.S. soldier who went against U.S. orders of retreating from Joseon and not interfering with Joseon-Japanese affairs.  So where's the payoff on that!?  I'd say the same for DM, who, if it weren't for AS, would not have looked back at a nation that forsook and doomed his parents to a brutal life and death at the hand of the lowly Joseon people due to their butcher class background.

 

Okay, I'll need to cool myself down for a while so that I could appreciate more objectively the overall trajectory and message of this drama, including the finale.

 

2 hours ago, kansas424 said:

Indeed, very bad script writing in the last couple of episode (except 21). 

If it wasn't for LBH and KTR, esp in the final train scene, these episodes would've been ruined. 

They were on their way to Manchuria for HE, the writer just had to kill Eugene off. 

 

 

Hi @kansas424.  I concur that KTR and LBH (along with YYS, BYH, KMJ, and other cast members) truly carried their characters and story despite the downward spiral including the WTF train scene.  Seeing EC's grief-stricken yet stoic face and hearing AS's heart-wrenching "Choi Yoo-jin!!!!!!" really got to me , no matter the otherwise ridiculousness of that train scene .

[[Drama 2018] Mr. Sunshine, 미스터 션샤인 - Winner of Critics’ Choice Award for Drama category]

I've yet to see the subbed episode of Ep. 23, but I share @rubie's and @mistergenie's thoughts in their quoted posts below:

 

2 hours ago, rubie said:

 Fans are cursing KES now.. big spoiler... don't read.. 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Defenseless Mr. Haengrang and Ms. Haman killed by a firing squad in the middle of the road. Is that Japanese interpreter the big rat!??  He took the 'wanted pics' of the RA to someone..

 

Bigger spoiler... the finale.. preview

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

It doesn't appear that there's a longer broadcast tonight.. and our worst fears.. are coming true.. 

 

Spoiler

I'm speechless over Hanman's, Mr. Haengrang's, and HN's demises.

 

As for the Ep. 24 preview, if that be so, then @aurelionsol will definitely not like what KES may have in store for AS and EC...

 

 

2 hours ago, mistergenie said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Those deaths were so senseless. You bring them back from Shanghai to give them that treatment?

 

 

Hi @mistergenie. 

 

Talk about dangling a red herring towards the end of Ep. 19/beginning of Ep. 20...only to shoot our hopes down with this!

 

Here's my message for KES:

 

Spoiler

 

I get the senseless context of this inevitable Japanese annexation of Joseon Korea, but that doesn't lessen the shock or pain of watching more of our beloved characters- major and minor- die off in such cruel fashion!  Now that 

Spoiler

HN died after having confessed her love to the "crazy man who fell for AS and cheated death at least twice"

I dread whatever may happen to AS and EC (and HS, DM, and other characters) in the finale!!!!!!!! 

[[Drama 2018] Mr. Sunshine, 미스터 션샤인 - Winner of Critics’ Choice Award for Drama category]

Hi Soompiers!  Boy, that was...well that was...

 

Before I broach on the issue at hand, let me just shout out to @lilyphenix (and other GoT fans) on last night's wins at the 70th Primetime Emmy Awards (despite no airings of the current season this year)!!!!!!

Spoiler

 

Now, if only dragons could bypass security or just crash the ceremony (or exist but oh well...)

*Btw, Soompi moderators, please let me know if I should remove this spoiler post above; for I'm aware that it's unrelated to Mr. Sunshine.

 

Now back on topic: I had a busy weekend, so I wasn't able to catch up on Ep. 21 and 22 of Mr. Sunshine until now.  And...

 

2 hours ago, blademan said:

 

I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT TO EXPECT ANYMORE!!!!

 

Hi @blademan. Sorry to cut your post.  That basically sums up my reaction to both those episodes and the preview in your quoted post.

 

As @mistergenie (and other Soompiers whom I forgot to mention) said, that 3-year time jump was quite a whiplash that, for me, I could barely savor those earnest, heartfelt moments between AS and EC earlier in Ep. 21 and 22.  And yes, EC's gradual renouncing of his identity/security as a U.S. citizen/soldier (i.e., refusal  follow official orders of returning to the U.S.) was going to backfire on him after he (rightfully ) shot down Takeshi Mori and was court-martialed in the U.S. for taking such (necessary!) action- hence the 3-year separation from AS !!  And don't get me started on those casualties and blow-up scare of Glory Hotel during the final moments of Ep. 22 (though, objectively, kudos to KES for not holding back on the tragic nature of Gunner Jang Seungu's death and those senseless carnage at the hand of the Japanese oppressors )!

 

That being said, it's not like AS and EC didn't discuss or acknowledge any of those immediate or long-term consequences of their action in fighting together for their future, be it for Joseon independence or their own happiness regardless of social background or location.  AS did blame herself for dragging EC down with her in her fight for Joseon independence that she has held on to long before she met him,.  And EC, as always, tried to reassure AS that he wouldn't have acted any differently despite knowing those dangers as long as he could ensure AS' livelihood while staying by her side for at least one more day, and that all they could do is lean on each other for now and not spent the rest of their lives worrying about what tomorrow would bring.

 

At this point, we Soompiers will have to take EC's "parting" (AS and EC will never part! AS will see to it! ) advice and hold on until the airing of the final 2 episodes.  Ironically, I'm somewhat glad for the one-week delay, which should give us more time (there's never enough time for AS', EC's, and others' happy moments! Darn those time skips! ) to prepare ourselves for the inevitable (apparently, not just the official Japanese annexation of Joseon Korea ).

 

But, just because it needs to be said, please be misleading with that preview!!  Hearts are shattering everywhere, and heads are spinning out of space over this...

[[Drama 2018] Mr. Sunshine, 미스터 션샤인 - Winner of Critics’ Choice Award for Drama category]

Hi Soompiers!  Now that I've somewhat cooled down after having watched the last 2 episodes (not entirely, but I'm not at the point where I'm about to post another radical reaction GIF ), I have a few more thoughts on the overall progression, most of which are  (redundant) summation and/or additions of what I've mentioned in my previous posts.

 

Standard disclaimer:

1. Apologies in advance for the long post AND multiple quotes. 

2. Please let me know if I've missed any significant plot point and/or characterization.

 

10 hours ago, aurelionsol said:

Aeshin: There is always a way. 

 

She somehow treats it selectively. ...

 

Street: 

Aeshin disappears for 2 months after destroying her family. Eugene thoughts what hunter Hong said him in his room. 

Hong: She says you are further away than the sea. She insists on making her way to you. If she must go through wherever that may be, I hope you will be there for her. 

 

Aeshin show up after his request and they have arguing. She wants part ways and her companions are waiting for her. He's putting a firm attitude and asking her what about him? His desires dont matter to her? He says he will wait for her, which he does for the next six months. 

 

 

They meet after six months. She knows that he is leaving thanks to her master. I think he did him a favor and put her in a situation where she must make a choice. ...

 

AeShin must be aware that he was waiting for her. I'm curious if she keep her promise after completing the mission and go with him to US.  It seems that she missed him because she has tears in her eyes and noticed he doesn't look happy seeing her. Another thing to think about it and make a decision - fighter or love.

 

3 hours ago, mistergenie said:

@rubie IMHO, drastic is more apt than dramatic, specially the U-turn taken by  Ae Shin with regards to her relationship with Eugene. I have rewatched E15, E16 and E20 and Ae Shin's complete ghosting of Eugene for 6 months appears ludicrous and way out of left field on second viewing...

 

How can the show expect me to believe that Ae Shin has completely removed EC from her heart? That she wants him to forget about her? That she no longer wants to walk beside him? That she wants to part ways? Am I to believe that just because her family got destroyed, all love and feelings for EC left her heart? Even EC lost his second father, his only family, so to speak? Did he close himself off from her?  Also, Joseon was always headed towards more and more danger, come what may - so how can the excuse of Joseon being in more danger now be used by Ae Shin to justify her ghosting of EC?...

 

So why ghost him? Why ignore his feelings? Her own feelings?...

 

Does she feel guilty to be in love after what happened to her family? Does she have a death wish now? Is that why she doesn't want Eugene to be involved (and when Eugene insists that he will follow wherever she is headed,she says to him  - "but I want you to live") - this line by her is the only sliver of justification that we get in E20 that could possibly explain her actions - that she fully expects to die and doesn't want to drag Eugene down with her - but if that is her justification, then IMO, it is not shown well nor is it articulated well by the show writers. All of this brings me back to one of my previous posts - the show really stumbled by not showing her POV, her inner thoughts during her absence. Not doing this, left many viewers with whiplash about her 180o turn.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

Hi @aurelionsol and  @mistergenie.  Btw, I apologize for cutting/modified parts of your post by replacing some of your passages with ...

 

After rewatching Ep. 20 and rereading recaps of all the past episodes (mainly Ep. 20, but still...), I'm still rather as perplexed as both of you over how KES apparently "ghosted" AS' POV for the past 6 months, particularly regarding EC.  Still, l'm giving KES a benefit of a doubt regarding how the final scene of Ep. 20 will continue during the first few or so minutes of Ep. 21, as well as the rest of the series; for that recent confrontation between AS and EC cannot just end with EC accusing AS of blurting "I'll go to America with you" without conviction and thus dragging him down for her cause in Joseon independence through lies/pretense/deception.  That is not the sentiment or (mis)understanding that should be conveyed between the two characters who've developed a meaningful, mutual communication and connection throughout this drama, especially now that Japan is getting closer to conquering Joseon Korea and the rest of the Joseon people, including the Joseon king/emperor and the RA, are more-or-less turning on each other and thus not able to trust anyone.

 

Sure, AS probably feels more unsettled about her own personal future, safety, and/or happiness ever since she (and her family) now lost her life and security as a Joseon noblewoman right after her grandfather's/Lord Go's death.  Perhaps, also, she's afraid of losing more of her loved ones in her fight for Joseon independence, especially someone like EC who, up until he met her (and DM, HS, Gunner Jang, etc.), questioned his ties with Joseon Korea both as a U.S. soldier and a former Joseon slave who lost his parents to an unforgiving Joseon class discrimination.

 

On one hand, I am actually relieved and pleased that AS evolved past her initial naive, romanticized notion of Joseon independence and is now coming to terms with the brutal, harsh realities of the everyday Joseon affairs, the actions/decisions of the RA (not so sure about Joseon politics), and the impending Japanese annexation of Joseon Korea.  While I'd prefer that AS' sobering realization and impulsive actions as a Joseon fighter wasn't exacerbated by her grandfather's/Lord Go's death and the late WI's actions against her family (i.e., shooting down AS' grandfather's/Lord Go's funeral procession), at least AS became more aware of her overall lot in life as a fugitive guerrilla fighter even though she insisted on carrying on with her fight in Joseon rather than escape with her family to Manchuria.

 

On the other hand, I am disheartened that AS would consider leading EC on with false promises of leaving with him to the U.S. while actually using him to sneak into Japan.  What ever happened to the forthright AS who earnestly declared her feelings and beliefs (albeit naive and romanticized, at first) about what (i.e., Joseon independence) and who (i.e., EC) meant greatly to her while impulsively defending those that/who mattered to her?  Unless I'm mistaken, that's the AS whom EC (and, to a lesser extent, DM and HS) cared for and respected so much that he would listen to and then consider whatever she said and/or did while honestly telling her what he believes needs to be addressed on his end (i.e., his past background as a Joseon slave and his skepticism towards AS' fight for Joseon that more-or-less disregards the slave and butcher class).

 

Whenever AS and EC directly addressed to each other whatever's going on in their own mind, heart, and conscience (however misguided, jaded, or shortsighted their thoughts or feelings might seem to the other), they would learn from the other how to:

1. Reconsider that prior notions (i.e., AS' initial cause for Joseon independence and EC' past misgivings toward Joseon), 

2. Contemplate (and sometimes act on) alternatives for their current and future prospects in or outside Joseon, and

3. Most importantly, trust and confide in each other.

 

As I stated in my last post, AS and EC should discuss with each other whatever's been going on with them during the last six months or so, as well as their perspectives on their current and future circumstances in (and outside) Joseon.  Even if it's not something they would agree on right away or in the long run (i.e., based on my limited understanding of an otherwise misleading Ep. 21 preview, AS probably told EC to flee to the U.S. while she remains in Joseon despite EC's insistence on staying by her side to protect her and/or join her cause), they owe it both to themselves and to each other the honest truth about their own perspectives.  Odds are, one or both may postulate another rhetorical question (like EC's earlier question to AS regarding the fate of the disadvantaged people in the Joseon AS's fighting for), thus enlightening them to consider all other options for their individual and/or mutual future and safety that they otherwise couldn't have thought of due to the constant turmoil over the Korea/Japan conflict and the impending departure of the U.S. from Korea.  Furthermore, neither AS nor EC (or any other character, for that matter) should ever have to bear the individual burdens alone, especially if they still have each other to turn to for confiding and support.

 

Now, I am aware that we Soompiers have different thoughts regarding the fates of all the major characters, especially AS and EC.  Some want AS to escape Joseon with EC (if, hopefully, he survives) and continue her fight for Joseon independence in other countries like China or the U.S.    Some want EC to stay by AS' side in her (and ultimately their) fight for Joseon Independence, whether it's in Korea or in other countries like China.  Some would prefer that AS, if forced to choose between her love for EC or her fight for Joseon independence, eventually renounce her long-ingrained but virtually losing battle, consider first and foremost her safety, future, and happiness (with EC, if he survives), and escape from Joseon altogether.  Some want AS to stick with her beliefs and cause with or without EC.  And I'm sure there are more POVs about the fates of AS, EC, and other characters that I did not include here.

 

As for me, I want any potential hostility and/or separation due to misunderstanding between AS and EC in recent events to cease and desist, given that there are only 4 episodes left to conclude the story arcs/growth of at least 5 major characters in a tumultuous Joseon period before the official Japanese annexation of Korea.  I want AS and EC to be honest to both themselves and to each other regarding their own insight on their overall current plight in Joseon, their future prospects in or outside Joseon, and their awareness of potential short-term and/or long-term consequences of their decisions and actions regarding all this matter.  Last but not least, I want AS and EC to listen to and then contemplate the other's insight on all these issues without rushing him/her to respond immediately.  Only then, they could move forward with respecting and/or challenging the other's POV and choosing their own and/or mutual road of destiny.  As much as I'd want a happy ending for AS and EC (and other characters who deserve a happy ending), for their sake in such an unforgiving, tragic historical time period in Joseon, I'll be happy if AS and EC can still remain forthright, mindful, and trustful with each other no matter what path they take.

[[Drama 2018] Mr. Sunshine, 미스터 션샤인 - Winner of Critics’ Choice Award for Drama category]

Hi Soompiers.  Here are more of my thoughts on Ep. 20 and the overall progression of Mr. Sunshine.  Btw, can you believe we have only 4 more episodes left before the end?!! 

 

Standard disclaimer:

1. Apologies in advance for the long post AND multiple quotes. 

2. Please let me know if I've missed any significant plot point and/or characterization.

 

2 hours ago, mistergenie said:

IMO, you know what E20 really needed and ultimately lacked?  A montage from AS's POV. Yes, a montage of scenes from AS's POV when she disappeared for 6 months. The show stumbled here, IMHO -  they should have shown how she was coping, what she was doing, maybe a glimpse into her inner thoughts about her relationship with Eugene, maybe her inner struggle to forget him and move on, maybe even a reaction when she learned from the baker that Eugene was asking about her. Instead we got nothing and we were suddenly hit with her 'let's break up and go our separate ways' when she met with Eugene.

 

Hi @mistergenie.  Thank you for pointing out something that has made me rather wary about AS' overall character growth/trajectory so far, especially regarding her future.

 

For the most part, I'm more than fine with the actions she has taken toward defending her people (i.e., EC) and her cause (i.e., Joseon independence), especially given that WI, Takeshi Mori, and others involved in the Japanese rule dared threaten the lives of her, EC, her family (including the deceased Lord Go/AS' grandfather), and her other loved ones in rapid successions (Japanese soldiers besieging the Go household after finding out AS' attendance at the English school, WI's plans of tearing down the Go household to make way for train construction, WI's order of shooting down Lord Go's funeral procession, etc.).  Now that the Japanese colonization of Joseon Korea has more-or-less commenced (unless I'm mistaken, I read in the Ep. 20 recap that the drama is now taking place in 1904 in which Korea technically became Japan's colony, but it's not until 1910 that Japan officially annexed Korea),  I can understand AS' turmoil in having to strategically plan her fight for Joseon independence (while potentially leaving behind her family and even EC) in a rather limited given time that she could barely contemplate all other options of her future, particularly with EC.  

 

However, as you mentioned above, I really wished (and am still wishing for the 4 remaining episodes) that KES would show scenes of AS' POV of all this predicament during those 6 months, just like she did with EC's scenes.  It would give both EC and us viewers some understanding on why AS would suddenly postulate about either going with EC to the U.S.,  parting ways, or even using him for her own cause/fight.  In my last post, I mentioned that their strength as the OTP was that they communicated to each other their background, passions, and lot in life without much delay, and that their exchanges helped them reconsider their own past values, misgivings (i.e., AS' initial naive, romanticized cause for Joseon independence and EC's initial reluctance to train King Gojong's army(?) or the RA due to his U.S. alliance and past trauma as a former Joseon slave), and future prospects in and/or outside Joseon.  Without such communication and connection, AS and EC will end up misunderstanding and distrusting each other and even start doubting their own willpower in making a difference in their future.

 

I'll say more on this in my response to @tzupi's quoted post below.

 

18 hours ago, tzupi said:

It would have been very disappointing if AS had such a discussion with Eugene. AS and Eugene have reached a level of intimacy where this kind of discussion is not necessary. Did he not say to her that he will follow her? What would be the purpose of a discussion about Eugene's feelings for Joseon? Half of the show was already focused on this aspect, and I think it was made clear that he reached kind of a peace with Joseon: he is reluctantly helping them. and he agrees to get more and more involved if it is about the safety of AS and the potter. and this was even before the things turned so wrong as in the last episodes.

 

Yesterday many people accused Lord Go of being cruel because he showed the right path to Eugene: kill the Japanese colonel. The old man entrusted him with a dangerous mission: for a father that lost two sons in the fight for freedom, what he begs Eugene to do was not cruel. Is a doctor who cause you suffering, while trying to make you healthy cruel? 

 

Now you are thinking that it is not only cruel but also futile. Futile how? The colonel is a danger for so many, he is unnecessarily cruel...and that's when the term 'cruel' is used correctly. Why is it futile to get rid of a war criminal?

 

As @ces8 rightly remarked it is difficult to understand what it means to be in a revolution. In my view, in the last episodes, Eugene got further and further away from AS. If he does not get more involved, his chances of ending up with AS will become smaller and smaller. He will become a futile character because the real fight has started and he is not in the middle of it.

 

So instead of being unhappy about the fact he has dangerous things to do, we should be happy when he gets something to do.

 

People who want a strong female character should also rejoice. It is good that AS did not lose track of her priorities.

 

Hi @tzupi.  I respect your detailed insight regarding AS and EC's dynamic and character trajectory, and I, like any other Soompier here, want AS to continue asserting herself as a strong female character who does not constantly need help/discussion from her hero and/or resort to being a plot device for the hero's own character growth/trajectory.

 

However, in this period where the Japanese feed on the insecurities of the Joseon people including the emperor/king, no one can truly trust even their own loved ones or comrades lest he/she risks betrayal from said loved ones/comrades.   Judging by the end of Ep. 20 and the Ep. 21 preview, AS and EC looked rather resentful and distrustful towards each other and exchanged some pretty harsh words.  If I'm not mistaken, AS approached EC and supposedly implored about going with him to the U.S. when she was actually using him to travel to Japan, and EC accused AS of lying to him for the past 6 months and being cruel in trying to drag him in her fight for Joseon independence.  AS and EC may have had the intimacy in which they may not need to discuss any more about their own stances in previous episodes, but, right now, that scenario that I just mentioned appeared as though AS and EC are starting to lose touch with that level of intimacy- or trust, more likely.  At this point, AS and EC do need to discuss whatever's being going on with them over the past 6 months and now.

 

Given everything they went through these past episodes, AS and EC cannot afford to lose their trust and communication they've established throughout this drama, especially if they're actually going to fight together for whatever cause or future (Joseon independence, their flight to China or the U.S., etc.).  Sure, given the ultimate tragic outcome of this historical period, it does look less likely that AS and EC will have a happy ending/future together (or individually, for that matter).  Nevertheless, while they still are around each other, they have the chance to convey, listen to, and/or acknowledge the other's perspective regarding their overall stance and future in or outside Joseon before the Japanese takes over and they have no choice but to separate for good (that is, if they choose not to leave together).  While I admire AS for affirming her own decisions and actions and not backing down due to the ongoing turmoil or Joseon traditions, I would like for AS to realize that she cannot shoulder this fight on her own, and she still has EC (and other loved ones) who vows that he will do anything to defend her as long as she communicates without pretense what she wants. 

 

Btw, I meant to say "foolish" and not "futile" regarding Lord Go's/AS' grandfather's request; for while it's not impossible for EC to kill Takeshi Mori (as we saw EC and Gunner Jang Seung-gu supposedly do in Ep. 20), it is foolish for Lord Go/AS' grandfather to assume that removing Mori (or even WI) would ensure AS' (and her family's) safety.  There will be more WI's and Mori's who will stop at nothing to hunt down and eradicate the RA, anyone else who declares opposition to the Japanese rule, and anybody related to the former two regardless of their positions/thoughts, and there's no way that AS would ever consider hiding her allegiance to the Joseon independence fight if push comes to shove.  After all, AS did declare to her family members (and Haman, who I'm relieved did survive) that she will remain in Joseon and resolve some "unfinished business" rather than escape with them to Manchuria.

 

 

2 hours ago, aurelionsol said:

 

Yes, the writers have spoiling this thread - her two disappearances and strange sentences. 

Her transformation is so idiotic and childish that I try to look for meaningful solutions without material (life in the forest, thoughts, doubts, problems) which has been cut out. She began to behave oddly after escaping and hiding in the forest. 

 

Edit: 

@kansas424

ok, it has some sense but instead of hiding it, she should reveal the truth to him. He could have died this year - murder/assasination. They both dislike each other after what happened

 

Hi @aurelionsol.  It's been a long time since we discussed on this thread.

 

We have 4 episodes left for KES to fully showcase AS' character growth/trajectory from an "impulsive, romantic, naive Joseon noblewoman masquerading as a Joseon independence fighter at night but not really knowing about the general affairs of Joseon people" to an "independent fighter for her own destiny/future who contemplates the long-term consequences of her actions, decisions, and other affairs in Joseon".  Until then, let's give both KES and AS a benefit of a doubt regarding AS' rash actions as a Joseon independence fighter during these recent episodes; for she (and her family and loved ones) did put up with nonstop series of senseless, brutal take-down attempts from WI and/or Mori (ransacking the Go household, the shooting at the funeral procession, etc.) that she could not stop and clearly think through her decisions/actions and the Joseon affairs, especially now that Japan is proceeding further with assuming control over Joseon Korea.

 

That being said, I agree with you that AS needs to tell EC the truth (and vice versa), as well as everything that's being going on with her since.  Otherwise, she will lose EC not just as her lover but, more importantly, also as someone whom she can trust in a time period when no one can truly trust their own kind or even themselves.

[[Drama 2018] Mr. Sunshine, 미스터 션샤인 - Winner of Critics’ Choice Award for Drama category]

Hi Soompiers!  I've yet to watch the unsubbed Ep. 20 without risking any signs of hyperventilation upon reading the reactions to today's episode here and the recap on Dramamilk:

https://www.dramamilk.com/mr-sunshine-kdrama-recap-episode-20/

 

Standard disclaimer:

1. Apologies in advance for the long post AND multiple quotes. 

2. Please let me know if I've missed any significant plot point and/or characterization.

 

1 hour ago, marfisa said:

  I am not pleased with what the end seems to lead to... AeShin will use Eugene for her cause. Not nice. 

 

Based on your response and the recap from Dramamilk, my immediate reaction to this is:

Spoiler

 

Btw, not at you, but perhaps at KES...  Although, fellow Soompiers, please let me know if I should edit this post and remove that reaction above for being offensive unrelated to the Mr. Sunshine thread; it's just that I'm really upset and frustrated at this turn of events at the end.

 

Look, I get that:

1. AS and her loved ones were provoked by all those sudden, life-and-death uproar (AS' grandfather's death, the shooting at AS' grandfather's funeral procession, etc.) mostly at the hands of WI in the recent episodes, and I'm glad that AS finally got her chance to finish him off.

2. AS has thought about and more-or-less trained for her fight for Joseon independence way long before encountering EC (and HS, DM, and HN). So, it won't be easy for AS to reevaluate, let alone change or even let go of, her initial cause for Joseon independence.

3. AS tends to act impulsively and radically whenever it concerns people (i.e., EC) and issues (i.e., Joseon independence) that matter dearly and greatly to her.  Though, in AS' defense, both WI's recent senseless actions against the Go household and the looming Japanese conquering of Joseon Korea exacerbated AS' impulsive actions/nature as a Joseon fighter and left her little or no significant time to fully consider the long-term consequences of her actions (and that of everyone else), let alone all her options for her safety and future (and that of her loved ones and everyone else in Joseon) . 

4. EC will do anything and everything to protect and/or stay with her, be it he starts letting go of his past trauma/misgivings as a former Joseon slave, training the RA or Joseon royal army(?), and even contemplating AS' grandfather's (cruel and futile) request in killing of Japanese soldier Takeshi Mori as a U.S. soldier, not a Joseon person.

 

But did AS really have to impose EC with the possibility of using him for her cause in fighting for Joseon independence assuming that EC would simply follow through without question and NOT inquiring about EC's compromised position as both a U.S. soldier and a Joseon person in the midst of the Japanese annexation of Korea, especially once/if the U.S. decides to step back from all this Korea/Japan conflict and leave Korea?  Mind you, I would NOT have to emphasize this matter if AS did ask EC about his thoughts regarding overall stance in Joseon, and that EC, after considerable deliberation, declares that none of his safety/immunity as a U.S. soldier/citizen matters to him more than being with and supporting AS in her fight for her safety, future, happiness, and fight for Joseon independence.

 

See, one reason I ultimately rooted for AS/EC (not initially due to AS' earlier romanticizing of EC's status as a U.S. soldier and life in the U.S. while not knowing about EC's dire past as a former Joseon slave) was because both AS and EC communicated to each other their own background, sentiments, and concerns for the other without (more-or-less) trying not to hold back any crucial info pertaining to their overall positions in Joseon.  EC has helped enlighten AS' evolved stance regarding what and who her Joseon will fight for, whileAS' unwavering care and fight for her relationship with EC has helped EC start reconciling with his past trauma and moving forward in fighting for AS and the rest of the Joseon people.  I want to see more of that communication and understanding between AS and EC in the last 4 episodes, as well as their consideration of their own individual and mutual safety and future, before or once the Japanese takes over Korea.

[[Drama 2018] Mr. Sunshine, 미스터 션샤인 - Winner of Critics’ Choice Award for Drama category]

6 minutes ago, lilyphenix said:

Why does this TV show make me cry so much? 

 

Well, it doesn't help that this drama is (very loosely) based on a real tragic historical period of Joseon Korea before the 30-40 year Japanese annexation of Korea that included Japanese oppression of the Korean national identity (i.e., forcing Koreans to adopt Japanese names) and atrocities (i.e., Comfort Women) that the Japanese government still whitewashes.

[[Drama 2018] Mr. Sunshine, 미스터 션샤인 - Winner of Critics’ Choice Award for Drama category]

 

Hi Soompiers.  Now that I've had time to process all these harrowing events in today's episode, I'll give my 2 cents on all this.

 

Standard disclaimer:

1. Apologies in advance for the long post AND multiple quotes. 

2. Please let me know if I've missed any significant plot point and/or characterization.

 

On 9/3/2018 at 8:26 AM, andy78 said:

 

this is a fact!!!we know otp won't be able to stop that....is just the begining of a long war and will not have a happy end ...we know what happened  don't we?

 

Hi @andy78. Sorry to cut your post short.  Oh, and off topic, crossing my fingers for the long-overdue JonXArya reunion (and the epic finale of GoT in 2019)!

 

Given what's happened up until today and the real-life tragic outcome of the Japanese colonization of Korea, I'm very curious- more like anxious- about how what kind of fates KES will lay out for our beloved characters, especially AS and EC.

 

First, I want to give AS a huge shout-out and kudos for:

1. Not backing down due to DM's unwarranted cutting of her hair and actually telling him off (while holding the sword to his neck...), and

2. Not letting DM's unwarranted action, her grief for her grandfather's death, or WI's orders of shooting down the funeral profession deter her from picking up her rifle (and her uniform) and joining the (RA?) shooters in fighting the Japanese soliders and protecting our ever-meaningful-but-defenseless HS (though I hope Haman survives!)

 

That being said (and I apologize for repeating this mantra), I do hope that KES shows scenes of AS contemplating her future and safety (and that of EC and her other loved ones),  as well as the actions (or lack thereof) of the RA, the Joseon king (Gojong or Sunyong? I'm losing track), and the supposed allies including the U.S. that will eventually leave Joseon Korea in the midst of the inevitable Japanese conquer of Joseon Korea.  Don't get me wrong; AS has shown that she's capable of defending herself (and her love/relationship with EC) no matter what, as well as continuing her fight for Joseon independence in or outside Korea.  But now that AS' grandfather aka Lord Go died AND WI had the audacity to besiege the Go household before and during the funeral procession, whatever security (and lifestyle) AS had as a Joseon noblewoman is basically over.  Not to mention that, as you said in the quoted post above, neither the OTP nor the RA will succeed in preventing the 30 years (or more) of oppression and atrocities by the Japanese (including the Comfort Women that the Japanese government, to this day, continues to dismiss) that the Joseon people of all social classes (and everyone else who were under the Japanese colonization during the 1900-1945 timeline) who were stuck in Korea will suffer.  So, AS (and EC and other characters) will need to reconsider whether or not it's worth risking her life (and her relationship with EC, if he survives) for a virtually losing battle/war that, as we've learned from history and/or Wikpedia, neither the Joseon government (namely, King/Emperor Gojong and Sunyong) nor the supposed allies (i.e., U.S.) bothered defending all the way.

 

By the way, in another post you mentioned today, I concur that AS' grandfather's expectations for EC (and, to a lesser extent, DM) are cruel, which, according to Netflix subtitles, AS' grandfather himself admitted.  I'd add that AS' grandfather's reasoning behind said expectations, like DM's reasoning for cutting off AS' hair, will have little or no effect on ensuring AS' protection in the midst of the Japanese annexation of Joseon Korea, especially while WI- and Takeshi Mori- is still around.

1. Again, WI already tried uprooting (and killing) the Go household while AS' grandfather was still alive.  Obviously, WI could care less about AS' (or her family's) noble class status.  Heck, WI could care more-or-less about whatever the Joseon king/emperor thinks or does to him, as long as WI doesn't die and/or lose his power...

2, As for EC, well, @mistergenie, @mistymorning, @anipanch, and@rubie (and other Soompiers I may have forgotten to mention) already highlighted the dire consequences that EC would face if he, as a U.S. soldier rather than a Joseon person, were to do AS' grandfather's bidding and kill off the Japanese soldier Mori.  I'd also add that, considering (unless I've been misinformed or KES pulls another creative liberties with the Joseon era at this point of the drama) that the U.S. will eventually pull out of Joseon Korea, EC's overall position and actions will be compromised, whether he chooses to leave with the U.S. army at the expense of AS' (and the Joseon people's) livelihood/future or stay with AS in Joseon at the expense of his immunity as a (highly-ranked?) U.S. soldier.

 

I get that AS' grandfather wants to protect AS, and that he doesn't trust EC's alliance with the U.S. (although I'm nonplussed over AS' grandfather's entrusting of DM to protect AS when he barely knew DM as much as he knew EC).  Nevertheless, WI, Mori, and other Japanese (and their supporters) no longer regard the Joseon noble status and instead will persecute (and execute) anyone of any social status who declares opposition to the Japanese rule.

 

 

 

9 hours ago, rubie said:

Gunner Jang finally got his moment of revenge on LWI. But feel so bad & sad for him about HongPa .. they never showed her meeting him again after he got promoted as the Palace Security Chief, did they? He must get a chance to whip that Mori really really good. Perhaps, it's Eugene and SG who kidnapped Takashi Mori. I'm pretty much guessing now.. tonight's episode is just too much..

 

@KDramaLogic I believe only Eugene knew about LWI directly killing Ae Shin's parents but he hasn't told her about it.

 

A one-shot kill for LWI is too easy for a traitor and villain and enemy of the country... make that 5x. 

 

Hi @rubie!  As always, I appreciate your feedback and updates on the ongoing stress-inducing progression of Mr. Sunshine.  I know the cast and crew earned their well-deserved after-party; now, I can only hope we'll make it to the end relatively unscathed, which, unfortunately, I cannot say the same for our beloved characters yet...

 

Thanks for the clarification regarding who knows about WI's involvement in AS' parents' death.  Now, what I'm uncertain of (and hoping that it isn't so) is whether or not WI knows about AS' relations to her parents yet.  If not, then, as much as I understand EC's reasons for not disclosing this matter to AS, AS should know about this before WI makes that connection (along with AS' involvement in the RA/ fight for Joseon independence) and threatens the livelihoods of AS, EC, and everyone else in Joseon.  If anything, AS will have more cause to avenge her parents and her grandfather (and any other member of the Go household who have not undermined AS) and finish off WI once and for all!

 

Speaking of which, I also share your sentiments regarding WI's needing more than one shot as a villain and traitor to Joseon (and his family including HN).  But I don't want WI to survive any longer than needed before more damage is done in both the drama and Joseon, even though I'd normally prefer that WI's death be drawn out.  Perhaps Gunner Jang Seung-gu (as sworn in both Ep. 1 and Ep. 19), HN (I know she's WI's daughter, but WI did sell her off in a forsaken marriage and future that she most certainly didn't agree to at the beginning), and others directly impacted by WI's vile actions can join in right after AS shoots first.  Think of it as a long-overdue poetic justice....

[[Drama 2018] Mr. Sunshine, 미스터 션샤인 - Winner of Critics’ Choice Award for Drama category]

38 minutes ago, anipanch said:

Yeah hope so, it's really time for WI to die and it will be a perfect death done by AS

 

Hi @anipanch.

 

It's already given that WI will stop at nothing to push his agenda at the expense of everyone else's lives, including his own daughter HN's. 

But he's really done a number on AS and her family, including (but sadly not limited to):

1. The death of AS' parents (which I'm not sure if AS knew about WI's direct involvement, unless someone can inform me otherwise)

2. The besieging of the AS' household (i.e., attempts to demolish the Go house in order to make way for train construction )

3. Last but definitely not least, ordering his men to shoot at AS' grandfather/Lord Go's funeral procession 

 

At this rate, it's only a matter of time before AS finally takes up @lilyphenix's advice regarding the "list" (i.e. memorizing the faces of those responsible for atrocities committed toward her, her loved ones, and the rest of the Joseon people) and aim her rifle at WI (with a one-shot kill).  And, as @mistergenie proclaims, the sooner the better!

 

 

33 minutes ago, mistergenie said:

 

Death at AS's hands. Cover up by the others. That would be perfect. Also, look closely when Takashi is being kidnapped with a bag on his head - looks like he is taken from the hospital. Had he come there to see WI or WI's body? Point to ponder.

 

Hi @mistergenie.  That's one silver lining I'd hope to see amidst the otherwise bleak future of Joseon Korea and our beloved characters in Mr. Sunshine, unless KES pulls a WTF Inglorious Basterds and "burn it down."

[[Drama 2018] Mr. Sunshine, 미스터 션샤인 - Winner of Critics’ Choice Award for Drama category]

1 hour ago, rubie said:

Spoiler.. spoiler... spoiler... don't read twitter posts..

 

Why must episode 19 become this way..  why..

 

So unexpected...

 

 

No more smiles.. after this..

 

 

Ep 20 preview.. another shocking scene.. 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

'

 

 

 

Hi Soompiers.  I just watched the unsubbed Ep. 19 and then read the recap here:

https://www.dramamilk.com/mr-sunshine-kdrama-recap-episode-19

 

My overall sentiments on the last moments of Ep. 19, the Ep. 20 preview, and 4 remaining episodes (or is it 2? I think someone mentioned upon viewing https://www.dramamilk.com/mr-sunshine-kdrama-recap-episode-16/#comments):

1. In the words of Sansa Stark from the Season 6 finale of GoT: "Winter has come."

2. In the words of Theoden from the movie version of LOTR: The Two Towers: "So it begins."

 

[[Drama 2018] Mr. Sunshine, 미스터 션샤인 - Winner of Critics’ Choice Award for Drama category]

11 hours ago, lilyphenix said:

 

Yes, I was. Was thinking, "Uh Oh!" as AS was studying the soldiers' faces, and I pictured her taking revenge. I'd take the GOT reference a step further and says that she, at times, also reminds me of the Mother of Dragons: How many men are under her charms and ready fight tooth, nails and lives for her? 3? 

 

Hi @lilyphenix!  Now if only dragons actually existed back then so that they could burn down Wan Ik and the rest of the Japanese oppressors any of their (foreign, including Korean) supporters, thus potentially (but probably not) preventing the Japanese annexation of Korea in some alternate universe (in the words of Daenerys Targaryen, "Where are my dragons!?!?").  Oh well, I suppose AS' fanboys (and some, if not all, of the RA) will have to do in this sadly doomed cause....

 

Hopefully the same won't be said in the series finale of Game of Thrones next year.  You heard us, George R.R. Martin and everyone else involved: we want an epic showdown, including one involving Daenerys' dragons and the undead Viserion!

 

10 hours ago, rubie said:

@KDramaLogic Thanks for the good words and great posts, especially. MR.SUNSHINE is already causing the blood and stress level to rise dangerously, we don't need to rub more salt to (any) wound.

 

Anyway, @Ahpheng is around (you've got the name slightly misspelled) .. thanks to her for a good message today. I hope the forum situation (with IG posting) have been rectified.. it seemed to be quite a problem before.

 

Hi @rubie!  Again, I'm glad that we fellow Soompiers can be here to support you, especially now that we're approaching the end of Mr. Sunshine (we still have 6 remaining episodes, but still).  That, along with debates over the last scene of Ep. 18, is already doing wonders (not necessarily good ones) to our heart, blood pressure, and stress!

 

Btw, thanks for informing me about the misspelling of @Ahpheng, which I edited and corrected in my earlier post (sorry @Ahpheng! ).

 

Lastly, I'm happy to see a huge turnout for the Mr. Sunshine wrap-up party, though (unless I was misinformed) it would have been awesome if LBH/EC and YYS/DM were able to attend as well.  All the same, the entire cast and crew- and KES, of course- deserve to have such a fun excursion after spending nearly a year (followed by re-shootings due to earlier complaints from K-nets over DM's "sympathetic" characterization as a Korean member of the Japanese gang/mafia and some historical inaccuracies) putting all their efforts into bringing to life this immersive, cinematic, and thought-provoking portrayal of the Joseon Korean era prior to the Japanese annexation.

[[Drama 2018] Mr. Sunshine, 미스터 션샤인 - Winner of Critics’ Choice Award for Drama category]

16 hours ago, marfisa said:

@KDramaLogic

may I ask you the link to be able to watch the unsubbed episodes on dailymotion? I have tried to seacrh for them, but I couldnt find episode 17.  Could you pleas help me?

 

I have read the usual recap by dramamilk. I am really shocked by the last scene in which Dong Mae cuts Aeshin hair. Even in the West is an horrible action cut a woman hair in public:  in middle age was the punishment for infidelity as it is read in literature, while in modern times this was done at the end of WWII to the women who collaborated with the nazis or the fascists. Their hair were cut in public and they were dragged around and called prostitutes. So, this is  shocking, really shocking.  Even with “good” twisted intentions to keep her safe, this was a cruel violence, hitting her body and her soul. Moreover she is already talked bad for ending the marriage promise, so she will be talked as a prostitute. I have to see what comes next, anyway it is so obviosly a machist thing, to treat a woman like she has no right, ad as if he knows better (what he knows? He doesn’t know anything). Decidedly Aeshin was right saying Joseon is not good to his women...

 

Hi @marfisa.  There were certainly a lot to take in Ep. 17 and 18! 

 

Normally, I would copy from this Soompi thread the Korean/Hangul title 미스터션샤인 and paste that title in the dailymotion.com or Google (video) search.  However, in recent times, more episodes of the drama, including Ep. 17, have been taken down from dailymotion.com at least the day after the initial uploading.  So, here are the working links for Parts 1 and 2 of today's episode that might be taken down by tomorrow:

Ep. 18 Part 1- 

 

Ep. 18 Part 2- 

 

Hope this helps!!!!

 

As for the last scene, I'm just about ready to throw the towel over having to explain repeatedly the whole "DM/AS will not/never happen as long as neither of them bother communicating to the other his/her actions/decisions/lot in life" spiel.  But considering that DM more-or-less tried to understand AS' family background/circumstances (i.e., visiting AS' parents gravesite/temple and confessing  his blunt exchange with AS as children) and cause for fighting for Joseon independence despite already having a "relatively secure" noble class status- none of which, btw, he mentioned whatsoever to AS- while AS continues honoring the whole "coin/debt exchange" (on behalf of deceased bureaucrat Lee Se-hoon's former servant whose life DM is "holding hostage" for the exchange, mind you), I might as well add more to this ad nauseum point.

 

After everything that DM learned about AS for the last 16 episodes (unless someone points out otherwise, I don't recall any encounter between AS and DM in Ep. 1 and 2), the best that DM thought he could do for AS' safety was cutting of her hair without even mentioning to her beforehand!?  Aside from the possible symbolic/cultural/etc. explanations/context behind the cutting of a woman's hair during the Joseon era (public shame/ostracizing, rebellion against one's parents/family, etc.), the fact that DM did something to AS (in this case, cutting her hair) without AS' knowledge, let alone consent, once more proves that DM has no mutual, fundamental communication, understanding of, or even respect for AS whatsoever.  Btw, this kind of scenario is something which I hope no individual (in this case, women) would ever have to face like AS had to at that moment.

 

Moreover, no matter AS' reckless, "unladylike" actions (i.e., rebelling against the Japanese and any pro-Japanese supporters at night) and headstrong nature that has more-or-less provoked- but really concerned- AS' grandfather, AS will stop for a moment to listen to what others (including EC, AS' grandfather, HN, Seung-gu, her servants, and even DM) have to say.  Even AS let HS explain his own lot in life, insecurities, and thoughts about his (now broken) engagement and future (or lack thereof), and HS, in turn, respected AS' decisions regarding her own future and acknowledged that he missed his chance with her after having postponed their engagement (and his return to Joseon from Japan) for 10 years.  The only way DM would ever make AS understand his thoughts or actions is if he actually talks about those (without threatening the lives of others); and right now, he may have lost his chance for good.  And DM will have no one else but himself to blame for that lost chance; for he had 16 episodes (again, not including Ep. 1-2) to reach some sort of understanding with AS, if not entirely make amends for those past actions as a member of the Japanese gang and his blunt, offhanded remarks (some of which he couldn't help but utter back when he was a victimized child who just lost his parents to a merciless beating/death by Joseon commoners for the murder of EC's mother's rapist).

 

14 hours ago, mistymorning said:

Eugene also told DM about choices in life. I was hoping.. along with his near death experience and all the other people helping him, he'll make different choices. But KES didn't change his course here.

 

Putting on my pop-psychology hat, I think DM has trauma from his mother who slashed him to save him. Perhaps, that early memory makes him going back to uncommunicating violence dealing with Aeshin. but he's ok with all the other women in his life, Hotaru and Hina. I'm sure unless Hina told Aeshin about his help, he would have failed to communicate right to Aeshin about his good deed and intention. To me, the most tragic part of DM is that, it's all his making at this point.

 

 

Hi @mistymorning.  There's a hefty amount of debates over the last scene of Ep. 18.  I've had my say in my response to @marfisaquoted post above, and I'll leave it at that for now.  That being said, I'll give KES a benefit of a doubt regarding DM's ongoing character trajectory (or apparent lack thereof, particularly regarding AS).

 

Truthfully, up until Ep. 16, I was more-or-less impatiently anticipating AS' "immediate" evolved character growth/stance on her fight for Joseon independence and was questioning AS' daydreaming of her future with EC (though those scenes were beautifully shot and noteworthy for @Ahpheng to recapture in the comics) as though it were more important to her than her own safety, future, and initial cause for Joseon independence.  After having rewatched the episodes and reading comments and feedback from you and other fellow Soompiers, I realized that KES would not let any of the characters, including AS, make drastic changes in their personalities, perspectives, and/or actions even when others propose a thought-provoking life lesson, advice or question (like when EC asked AS if the Joseon she's fighting for will protect the butchers and slaves); for we as humans do not just suddenly change our stance or thoughts on what we've known, learned, or believed in, especially when it's something we've (subconsciously) held on to since childhood.  Given AS' upbringing as a Joseon noblewoman and her past tendencies to idealize "new", "radical" movements or ideologies including the RA and life in the U.S. (or other countries except Japan), it would be odd and out-of-character for AS to suddenly find the answer to EC's aforementioned question, try to understand the everyday lives/plight of all the Joseon people including DM (who, at this point, is giving AS virtually no reason to reason with him), and contemplate her current and future prospects in a practical rather than romanticized manner (i.e., daydreaming about her future with EC in the U.S. with a zebra at the background ).  Since then, I've come to appreciate AS' character growth from the beginning and trust that KES will showcase AS take initiative and strengthen her fight not just for Joseon independence but for her and her loved ones' safety, future, and happiness (and judging by the end of the Ep. 19 preview, AS is back in her donned uniform and rifle better than ever!).

 

So, apart from the whole AS/DM ad nauseum spiel (which, again, I posted my thoughts above), I won't write off DM's lack of change in character trajectory and growth as a permanently lost cause yet.  As you mentioned, DM's trauma over his parents' fatal predicament and his mother's slashing not only has been mostly unresolved but also manifested in his lifelong decisions (i.e., working with the Japanese gang) and actions riddled with uncommunicative violence and brutal cynicism toward Joseon and his identity there.  All the while, he can't stop thinking about his first blunt encounter with AS as children right after escaping his parents' untimely fates and has formed conflicting sentiments (mostly obsession) over AS' social status and (to a lesser extent) judgment of him.  Let's not forget that DM has spent a majority of his life with more unscrupulous folks (with some exception of the mute Hotaru, who, as far as I can recall remains ambiguous in her own true thoughts about DM), whereas AS (and now EC and HS) has had constant love, communication, advice, redirecting, and support from her grandfather (though outwardly indignant), Seung-gu, and others whom she, in turn, cares about and trusts.  The only times that DM would reassess- and perhaps talk about- his past actions and thoughts would be whenever he had some exchanges with EC (and HS as the third wheel) in and out of HN's Glory Hotel, which, along with his recent near-death experiences, cannot suddenly inspire DM to recover from his unresolved trauma, let go of his conflicted thoughts/obsession over AS, renounce his violent ways and allegiance with the Japanese gang, and make other significant changes in his life.  After all, it took EC 16 episodes chronicling years of estrangement from Joseon Korea (with instances of flash-forwarding in the first two episodes), his almost fatal sending-off of HS' parents in Ep. 4-5, opening of his heart/understanding/trust/love with AS, and (in)direct talks with HS over their overall lot in life before he started letting go of the pain of losing his parents by accepting forgiveness from HS' mother, who, after 14 episodes of fretting over HS' stay in Joseon Korea out of fear of him knowing about EC's past connections with HS' family atrocities, finally swallowed her pride, knelt before EC, acknowledged the culpability of HS' family (namely, HS' grandfather), and begged for forgiveness.

 

KES has done her utmost in not only establishing the character background, growth, and trajectory of at least five major characters- AS, EC, DM, HS, HN- plus others amidst this complex, difficult historical period in Korea but also kept consistent each characters' own personalities and/or adherence to long-ingrained habits, belief, and/or life choices.  So let's see how KES will let the character/story arc and development of each character, including DM, unfold for better or worse, especially once they have to deal with the imminent Japanese annexation of Joseon Korea towards the end of the drama.

 

Once again, what a long post!

[[Drama 2018] Mr. Sunshine, 미스터 션샤인 - Winner of Critics’ Choice Award for Drama category]

15 minutes ago, andy78 said:

waiting to watch ep 18...let's hope we will have more otp moments next week....

 

We're getting closer to the ultimate conflict aka impending Japanese colonization of Joseon Korea; so let's savor whatever OTP moments (and other light-hearted moments) KES will graciously grant us.

 

On to the Ep. 19 preview: Yay!  AS' donning her trademark uniform and a rifle in her hand!  Hopefully she (along with EC and maybe other RA members) will start taking out the Japanese and any Korean-Japanese traitors, starting with that ever-smirking Wan Ik.  Speaking of which, can we have more scenes of Wan Ik being on the receiving end of the sword/gun/weapon like the one in the next episode preview?  Seriously, someone (preferably AS on behalf of her parents and her grandfather) needs to cut off Wan Ik's source of power (and his head, for good measure)!

 

20 minutes ago, andy78 said:

i so like Arya...I CAN'T WAIT TO SEE IF OUR GIRL WILL TAKE THE REVENGE PATH TOO...

 

I know, right!?  Well, Arya did off the Frey family for the dreaded Red Wedding (it would have been more satisfying if Arya first let Lord Frey be present with the rest of the family so he'd first witness the poetic justice a la Red Wedding before she killed him, but I'm fine with canon story as well).  Arya may have put off her revenge path to reunite with the remaining Stark family members sans Jon Snow (still expecting that long-awaited reunion/hug; it's 6-7 seasons overdue!), but she'll go off with a bang in the next- and final- season.  Btw, I was bummed out that Season 8 was scheduled for 2019 with only six episodes instead of 10 (seasons 1-6) or 7 (season 7); talk about a dry spell for Game of Thrones (GoT) fans this year....  Still, I'll trust that the GoT creators (and George R.R. Martin) would not put off the series finale by a year to leave us with nothing less than a suspenseful, epic showdown amidst the "Winter"; don't let us down!

[[Drama 2018] Mr. Sunshine, 미스터 션샤인 - Winner of Critics’ Choice Award for Drama category]

Hi Soompiers!  I've still yet to watch Ep. 18; so I'm anticipating the outcomes today's episodes with trepidation!   I know I'll have to brace myself for the heartache and tragedy (especially given the ultimate Japanese colonization of Joseon Korea), but my heart still can't take the pressure! 

 

Standard disclaimer:

1. Apologies in advance for the long post AND multiple quotes. 

2. Please let me know if I've missed any significant plot point and/or characterization.

 

22 hours ago, mistymorning said:

@KDramaLogic, I watch this with Netflix english subtitle on sometimes just for the sake of checking subtitle accuracy and for the pleasure of seeing how some korean lines are interpreted in english, and it's not that bad. Sometimes it has some mistakes but not that many, and not to the extent that it'll disrupt the whole story progress. So I highly recommend you Netflix if you are watching this without subs as a non-korean speaker.

 

So far, I'm cool with pacing of this drama. I wasn't into KES drama before like this, so I cannot say KES track records with latter part of her series, but so far I think I got the good vibe. But, we'll have to see. 

 

 

Thanks for the advice.  Nowadays, due to my busy schedule, I haven't had time to browse and/or watch many dramas or movies, whether in Korean or English; so I didn't figure that I'd need a Netflix subscription.  But, as @lilyphenix,  @kansas424 and @meechuttso (and other Soompiers) proclaimed, Mr. Sunshine is a rare, one-of-a-kind gem that I would not expect from any K-drama writers, including KES.  So, I'll see if I should make an exception for this drama and subscribe to Netflix for a better viewing experience and understanding, instead of toggling between the unsubbed episodes and recaps/comments found in Soompi, Dramabeans (despite certain extreme biased comments and recap, the Dramabeans website does include as many details and major plot points with screenshots of the episodes), dramamilk, etc.

 

18 hours ago, lilyphenix said:

Random thoughts on episode 17 

- DM can't die yet: I'm not ready. (throws tantrum, wipes tears) 

- Exactly how many elders does AS' family have? That's not a family, that's a tribe! <3 

- Japanese soldiers behaving as if they own Joseon is 

- AS memorizing all the soldiers' faces...

- Just when I thought my heart was going to break, and was wondering where he is when we need him... Someone sure knows how to make a dramatic entrance.

- I thereby crown EC the King of Shades! ;-)

 

@meechuttso I read the beginning of your post (the popularity index; thank you!), but not the end yet. I will come back and read all posts after I finish watching last night's episode.

 

1. Like other major characters here, DM has yet to fully evolve past his trauma and misgivings in the midst of the imminent Japanese annexation.  He cannot die yet!

2. Well, AS' grandfather isn't addressed as nobleman Lord Go for nothing. 

3. Well,  Wan Ik is shown strutting in and out of any household affairs including the royal grounds (ugh, someone cut the b****** before he ruins/kills more lives!).  Not to mention that one Japanese ambassador was randomly shooting around the village while dragging the Joseon-spy-disguised-as-a-geisha in Ep. 7.

4. AS is about to cut the b******.  Btw, were you making a Game of Thrones reference regarding Arya Stark's making the list of the Freys and others responsible for her family's death/separation/etc.- hence' "memorization of all the soldiers' faces"?  If so, then Wan Ik and other Japanese (loyalists) better watch out: "The North remembers" and "Winter is coming". 

5. I'm all for AS (and HN) taking initiatives and defending themselves and their cause, be it with rifles (and a fedora to boot) or fencing swords (come on HN; show 'em how it's done!).  But that doesn't mean AS cannot use some help, especially when it makes a dramatic entrance in the form of EC aka Sunshine King of Shades!

6. Speaking of which, now we need Alpheng @Ahpheng to reappear again on Soompi and make  comics highlighting more of EC's trademark shades! (Off-topic, what happened with Alpheng on Soompi?  I could not link Alpheng's profile in the post.)

 

13 hours ago, rubie said:

Haman Daek saves the day (or rather Ae Shin's diary), big time!

 

You're the best right-hand (wo)man! 

 

Thoughts of Ep17: It's a well-meant gesture of Eugene to visit Hee Sung's mother to let her know that he has nothing against her son. It's also for her to know that EC kept his promise, he wasn't the one telling HS about the past.. he never let slip not even one detail about the incident until HS found out about it by himself. The ornament was the last thing given to EC by his mother, although not her own, it became hers as Eugene held on to it for many years as a motivation for him to survive in America. I think Lady Yun is commendable for her action, she stood up owning the responsibility of what happened 30 years ago and bowed down to atone for their mistakes. That's why Eugene wants her to support Hee Sung, in reminiscence of his own mother protecting him to the end of her life. Even without his forgiveness, Eugene wants Lady Yun to have her closure as well.

 

HI @rubie!!!!!!!!!  I (as well as everyone else here, as you can see here) am glad you're back!!!!  We appreciate your feedback and contribution to the Mr. Sunshine thread, and, given the trajectory and cliffhanger of yesterday's episode and the Ep. 18 preview, we need you more than ever for your thoughts, updates, and other info about the drama that we may have missed!

 

Also, sorry to cut/modify your post above; I don't know if I'm supposed to re-quote pictures/graphics.  But anyhow, this post is already long enough!

 

And finally, I'm relieved that EC managed to reassess and move past his life-altering, cruel trauma, visit and reassure HS' mother that he means no harm to HS just because of the tragic outcome of that fateful day.

1. As you stated above, HS' mother already acknowledged her father's (and, to a lesser extent, her and HS' father's) culpability in EC's parents senseless mistreatment and death- and EC's near-death chase as a child no less and begged for forgiveness.  I'm sure that if HS' mother were in EC's mother's (and DM's mother's and AS' mother's) dire position, she'd do anything to make sure HS escapes alive (at the expense of her own life/safety), even if it mean's holding the slave master's daughter hostage at knifepoint.

2. Now, EC starts recovering from the unresolved pain of his childhood trauma and forgiving HS' mother (don't know about HS' father though) for said trauma.  Of course we can't expect EC (or any characters suffering from life-altering traumas, especially as children) to entirely let go of the tragic past and/or forgive those responsible for his parents' sufferings and death, but, for his sake, it helps that EC can move forward with his unforseen future (hopefully with AS, but, given the historical context...).

3. Last but not least, HS' mother realizes that EC would not go so far as even revealing his past to HS, lest he holds HS more responsible for one of the many atrocities his family- namely, his grandfather- committed. 

[[Drama 2018] Mr. Sunshine, 미스터 션샤인 - Winner of Critics’ Choice Award for Drama category]

12 minutes ago, mistymorning said:

@KDramaLogic, Russo-Japanese war is in the near future for drama's current timeline. it's 1903 in drama land, but Russo Japanese War is in 1904-1905. The tension between Russia and Japanese, and possibility of war are being mentioned quite a time in drama, so I think we'll see something from that point.

 

While I love to have 50 episodes of Mr Sunshine, the production cost and time to shoot that long would be too much. And casting would become issues, not many wants to be tied to TV production for that long. And most of our beloved characters are not based on real people, I think so far only foreign consuls and King/Queen are real and nobody else that I can think of. Unlike those sageuk, Mr Sunshine planned to be a story of nameless RA, so.... I don't know... Finally, attaching too many such reference directly to characters could raise issues on depicting twisted history under the guise of real saguek, so I think it's safe to be on the side of fusion historical drama. 

 

His @mistymorning.  Sorry to cut your post into two parts.

 

First, thanks for the clarification on the current drama timeline!  Having watched the past 17 unsubbed episodes on dailymotion.com with limited Korean language comprehension/fluency (for I don't have or use Netflix subscription, and I've heard that the Netflix subtitles for this drama have been more-or-less inaccurate),  I tend to miss certain characterizations and plot points, including timelines, flash-forwards, and other time changes.  Off-topic, that's one of my peeves with watching either Korean or English dramas/movies/etc. of specific genres such as historical, medical, and law; these  works often contain a hefty amount of technical vocabulary/terms, concepts, and other aspects that, if elicited too briefly or vaguely even while I'm trying to give my undivided attention, would go way over my head.  While this would not lessen my appreciation and enjoyment of these types of dramas/movies/etc. including Mr. Sunshine, I could end up getting lost on the context of the story/character arc and thus misjudge or misunderstand why certain characters (the RA, for example) acted otherwise.

 

Of course, a lot of money has been invested into creating and producing the drama, including costume, shootings, and the cast and crew's salaries (I overheard that renowned actors like LBH/EC usually expect an unusually high salary for drama roles; I don't know about salaries for movie roles, though).  That's why i mentioned about KES, the cast and crew investing their time and effort in bringing to life the characterization and context of this expensive yet immersive drama production.  So, it would be a tall order for KES to expand the drama to 50 or more episodes, especially when there haven't been as many real historical figures (besides King Gojong) as we'd normally see in historical/sageuk dramas.  Still, I'm curious and wary about how KES will resolve multiple major character/story arcs and integrate subsequent historical movements leading up to the Japanese colonization of Joseon Korea, including the Russo-Japanese war, in seven remaining episodes.  Like @mistergenie, I have noticed that several K-dramas have had issues with pacing, resolving of multiple character/story arcs and loose ends toward the finale that sometimes resulted in storylines and/or characters coming off as out-of-nowhere/makjang/out-of-character.  So far, KES has accomplished a considerable feat of developing and pacing each characters' growth, trajectory, and contribution to the main plot/conflict; hopefully the drama does not lose momentum toward the end.

[[Drama 2018] Mr. Sunshine, 미스터 션샤인 - Winner of Critics’ Choice Award for Drama category]

6 hours ago, mistergenie said:

 

With so many plot movements happening now, I was thinking that it would have been great if we had 30 episodes. Honestly, I am always apprehensive when the final few episodes of any kdrama start their run towards the finish line. Why you ask? Well, it is because it has been my past and regular experience with many a kdrama where they tried to  fit too much into the final few episodes which inevitably lead to rushed conclusions and nonsensical, twisty (just for the sake of being twisty) endings that poured water over all the previous development of the earlier episodes.

 

I concur that pacing, tying up of loose ends and multiple character/story arcs are some of the major common issues found in K-dramas, especially in the final episodes.  So far, I think that KES has done her best with the set-up, pacing, and depiction of each of the 5 main characters' (and other characters') story arc, character development, etc., as well as keeping intact the tumultuous historical period of Joseon Korea prior to the Japanese annexation (with some creative liberties and/or possible omissions of certain events in Joseon Korea such as the Russo-Japanese War according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Japanese_War, unless I'm losing track of the drama events and timeline! ).  Not to mention that KES, the cast and crew of Mr. Sunshine have invested and given their all in quite an expensive yet immersive drama production.

 

Having said that, I agree that the drama could have benefited more in terms of pacing and set-up of these multiple character/story arcs if it were given a 30-or-more-episode format rather than 24.  After all, several (but not all) historical/sageuk K-dramas typically span over 50 episodes in order to draw out the historical context and inform/remind viewers of multiple key historical figures/characters.  If I could recall, each episode of those historical/sageuk dramas even showed names/brief character info of each character that we've already seen in order to remind us of his/her story arc and/or position in the main storyline.  Even Six Flying Dragons, a semi-fusion(?) sageuk drama with a mix of real historical figures (including Jeong Do-jeon, Lee Bang-won/King Taejong, and Poeun/Jeong Mong-ju played by Kim Eui-sung, the actor starring as Wan Ik here) and fictional characters (including Boon-yi, Musa Moohyul, and Ddangsae/Lee Bang-ji played by Byun Yo-han/HS), lasted 50 episodes, contained those brief character names/anecdotes in each episode, and dealt with multiple story arcs of 6 titular characters (hence, 6 Flying Dragons) plus other major historical figures/characters belonging to several (political) factions.

 

Then again, I would have never thought that KES would delve into such a sensitive, difficult historical period in Korea that, as far as I'm aware, not many (if any) K-dramas/movies/etc. have covered.  So, I'm curious about how these character/story arcs will unfold over the remaining 7 episodes, as well as what message KES will convey towards the end of Mr. Sunshine.

[[Drama 2018] Mr. Sunshine, 미스터 션샤인 - Winner of Critics’ Choice Award for Drama category]

24 minutes ago, mistergenie said:

 

I am not unduly worried about AE Shin's involvement in the heady matters you have described in your post. Willingly or not, she will end up being caught up in major events, and it will be quite interesting to see what steps she takes to resolve certain sticky situations (namely her grandfather's arrest and Wan Ik). Whatever the case, her character is not static nor stuck in some weird one sided obsessive loop where her life revolves around one person only (same cannot be said about a pathetic DM) - she is dealing with multiple things and those things don't have to be exclusionary - like, she has to let go of one thing to tend to another - life doesn't work that way - when everything important to you is on the line, you fight for everything - you don't drop something nor push something to the back burner.

 

True, I think AS is perfectly capable of assessing and handling these multiple circumstances in her life (her fight for Joseon independence, her involvement in the English school, her grandfather's protest/arrest, her relationship with EC, that ominous encounter with Wan Ik, etc.) all at once.

 

My point is that all of those matters described above are far more important to AS than DM, who (with his one-sided obsession) has no place in both her heart and her concerns unless he tries to harm those within AS' close proximity.  After 17 episodes, AS and DM still haven't established any mutual understanding of each other's positions, let alone form any dynamic worth shipping.  Thus, there's no reason why AS should feel- or be held- responsible for whatever actions/decisions DM makes allegedly on her behalf- something which, in your earlier post before the quoted one above, you mentioned that the DM fandom will most likely insinuate or declare that AS should be doing based on the Ep. 18 preview.

[[Drama 2018] Mr. Sunshine, 미스터 션샤인 - Winner of Critics’ Choice Award for Drama category]

12 minutes ago, mistergenie said:

Sorry for quoting my own comment but I was reading dramamilk's translation of the preview and some other thoughts came to mind:

 

From dramamilk's translation of the preview: Dong Mae: – I will be someone for you from now on. Because now I don’t care if I make the entire world my enemy. -

 

hmm, maybe he wants to join the RA and be her comrade/shield yada yada? Too late dude, she already has EC for all that.

 

OR

 

maybe he takes it upon himself to punish/beat/kill people who are spreading rumors about Ae Shin's broken engagement - if so,  I fully expect parts of the fandom (high on entitlement) to expect, nay demand that Ae Shin recognize DM's actions and reciprocate in some way or another. As for me, I hope she firmly knocks some sense into him - she doesn't need someone being a white knight on her behalf, specially someone for whom she has no reciprocal feelings of love at all.

 

Hi @mistergenie.  The DM fandom may be swooning over the "coin/debt exchange" (which, btw, still gives neither AS or DM any substantial understanding of the other), the candy/shootout scene, and the preview (with DM walking in slow-motion with his sword toward AS while narrating about being someone for her despite turning against the world), but AS has more pressing matters at hand that she, at the moment, can't be bothered with having to knock some sense into DM.

 

AS' grandfather, along with his fellow nobles, is imploring in front of the palace over King/Emperor Gojong's (or is it Sunjong now? I'm losing track of any time changes in the drama) capitulation to the Japanese at the expense of the Joseon citizens, and, judging by the Ep 18 preview, is under arrest by the police (Japanese or Korean? I can't tell).  Meanwhile, the Japanese police discovered AS' attendance at an English school (where they arrested the English teacher there as a spy) and is ransacking her home.  Not to mention Wan Ik's foreboding gaze at AS' direction in the next episode preview.  At this point, AS' own life, safety, and future (and that of her grandfather, EC, and her loved ones) are at stake now.  She has no time to ponder DM's questionable actions/mission; heck, she may not even have time now to continue getting involved in the RA movement or pursuing her relationship/future/happiness with EC when she's facing unsettling turmoil in her own home.

 

Since I watched the unsubbed Ep 17 and do not really understand Korean, please let me know if I missed any other key plot points or characterizations.

[[Drama 2018] Mr. Sunshine, 미스터 션샤인 - Winner of Critics’ Choice Award for Drama category]

Hi again Soompiers.  I've yet to watch the unsubbed Ep 17 on dailymotion.com before posting my thoughts o the episode and feedback/recap from others on this thread and others websites.

 

To be honest, I'm rather disheartened that after going through 16-going-on 17 (no pun intended, The Sound of Music!) episodes of AS, EC, DM, HS, HN, and other characters anticipating (and, for some, suffering early ramifications of) a critical point in the Joseon era before the Japanese colonization, I'm still seeing comments disparaging characters/actors' depiction including "lack of facial expressions/emoting due to possible botox injections".  I believe that all the cast ensemble have sufficiently (I'd say outstandingly, but anyhow) shouldered their characters, plot/conflict, and dynamic of the drama.

 

Also, for those insisting on pushing AS and DM together and for AS to immediately accept DM's actions due to his tragic past, I want to point out one thing that we, as viewers, need to consider not just here but in any other drama, movie, or other fiction work: Just because we the audience (and maybe some other characters) can see, understand and/or, if applicable, sympathize/empathize with the overall characterization/plight/background of these characters does NOT mean that they are fully or even aware of, let alone understand/sympathize/empathize, the other's circumstances or perspective.  I know that tends to be rather frustrating for the sake of both the character and the plotline, but this also happens to us in real life.  So, while I wouldn't mind seeing AS and DM reach some sort of understanding over their overall position in the midst of Japanese rule of Joseon Korea in the next 8 episodes, right now I have yet to see them actually discuss about what and why the other has been acting or thinking thus far (unless someone can show scenes of them having any of these exchanges in today's or earlier episodes that I might've missed).

 

Again, I haven't watched today's episode yet, so maybe what I'm about to say is already occurring here:  I want to see AS shift her main thoughts/concerns from her relationship/future with EC to the current affairs of her household (particularly her grandfather), the RA, King/Emperor Gojong and his army, and the rest of Joseon.  Judging by some recaps/feedbacks here and on https://www.dramamilk.com/mr-sunshine-kdrama-recap-episode-17/, it looks as though Wan Ik or even King Gojong is targeting AS' grandfather (aka head of the Go household) as the official scapegoat .  If AS' grandfather get branded (and executed ) for his cause, then AS is about to lose whatever security or life she has had as a Joseon noblewoman, especially once Japan takes over.  And then her relationship with EC and even her fight for Joseon independence won't be the only issues AS has to worry about losing; she will need to start adapting and fighting for her own safety and future (and, if possible, her happiness).

 

As always, please correct me if I missed any significant plot point or characterization.  I look forward to hearing more on your thoughts on today's episode and the overall trajectory of Mr. Sunshine!

 

 

[[Drama 2018] Mr. Sunshine, 미스터 션샤인 - Winner of Critics’ Choice Award for Drama category]

Hi again Soompiers.  Once more, apologies in advance for my long post below!  And, as always, if I missed any plot point or characterization, please let me know! 

 

6 hours ago, anipanch said:

THIS! I have to use your words, since you so perfectly put it. AS' character indeed took a very weird turn. I can't see her ambitions of free and independent Korea and it's very mind-boggling, since she was pretty much the only main character who went against every expectation and took parts in some controversial operations, but suddenly AS in the latest episodes stops being the patriot and her feelings for the homeland is nowhere to be seen. I really can't figure out what the writer is trying to establish with AS' character. A noblewoman going around dressed in man's outfit fighting with a gun against everyone who disrespects her country is now nothing more than a woman in love who daydreams about living in the US with her lover... Okay, there's nothing wrong with her being in love but AS' path is more of a downgrading rather than a development and it's very disappointing to see a woman so strong who was ready to sacrifice all of her interests for the sake of the country now talking about wanting to give her heart to a man who doesn't even know where his loyalty lies... 

 

Hi @anipanch. Thanks for your insight on AS' recent character trajectory (or "apparent" lack thereof).

 

Now, I'll give KES a benefit of a doubt regarding AS' "apparent" lack or slowing of character growth/trajectory because it's not easy to give more than one- or, in this case, 5- major character enough scenes in every episode to showcase their personal growth and/or contribution to the main storyline.  You mentioned that EC "doesn't even know where his loyalty lies".  The same can be said of DM (because of his traumatic past and his parents' senseless suffering and death at the hands of Joseon commoners) and HS (because of his parents' elitist apathy towards others' plight and his grandfather's atrocities committed toward others including EC's parents and the one Joseon person whose land he confiscated as a so-called present for HS).  Perhaps KES put aside (to some extent) AS' (and HN's) major trajectory in recent episodes so that EC, DM, and HS would find themselves more entangled in the main uproar over Wan Ik's latest schemes, King Gojong and/or the RA's indecisiveness on handling the imminent Japanese colonization and then decide their own future actions (or lack thereof) in Joseon, thus testing their loyalty based on their traumatic past/misgivings.  But the thing is, their involvement in Joseon stems mainly from their intrigue over AS and their gradual knowledge of AS past nightly actions in opposing Japanese rule in favor of Joseon independence.  I will be highly disappointed if KES makes AS become another one of the allegedly "strong" major female characters who gets reduced to a plot device for male major characters to grow and carry the plot of the drama/movie/etc.  Then again, I did not expect KES to take on an extremely difficult historical period/topic in Korean history that the Japanese government still, to this day, undermines.  So, I'll trust that KES will allow AS to evolve in her stance on her future and her fight for Joseon independence over the next 8 episodes.

 

Having said that, my issue with AS in recent episodes is not so much on her mulling over and/or defending her relationship with EC (though I do find her daydreaming of her "future" with EC in the U.S. whimsical but very jarring; I mean, is AS romanticizing both her and EC's social status/life in the U.S.?) but that (unless I missed certain scenes; for I cannot recall every detail of the past 16 episodes of the drama) AS has not yet fully contemplated on the current plight of the Joseon people (EC did ask if the Joseon AS is fighting for will have a place for all the people including slaves and butchers), the current (in)actions of King Gojong and the RA, and, most importantly for her sake, her own future/status in (or outside) Joseon in light of the (unfortunately inevitable) Japanese annexation of Joseon Korea.

 

First of all- and let's be honest- however noble, brave, and daring AS was in donning men's clothing and fighting off with rifles and Seung-gu's training against anyone disrespecting her country in the earlier episodes, AS acted mostly on her romantic, ideal, and naive notion of Joseon Korean patriotism and nationalism (and probably her deceased parents' involvement in the RA; I do not remember if AS already knew about their actions at the beginning).  Unless I forgot some details of the earlier episodes, I cannot recall AS actually being aware of, let alone getting actively involved in, the RA or King Gojong's actions before encountering EC.  If she had done so, she should already have some sobering (albeit, disheartening) perspective on how far the RA or King Gojong are willing to protect the Joseon people, including her and her loved ones, from the Japanese.

 

AS' mulling of her relationship/future with EC, however endearing and eye-opening, somewhat troubles me.  For one thing, AS started pursuing EC (and learning English assuming that EC is literate in English) out her ideal, romantic notion of EC's status as a highly-ranked(?), genteel American soldier.  Thankfully, KES had EC calling out (in his considerate manner, of course) AS' naive stance in her fight for Joseon independence and making AS start questioning what she really knew about the status and plight of all Joseon people.  Also, KES had the grace of having AS acknowledge EC's past and still defend her love for him, much to the ire of her grandfather.  That being said, I would rather KES give less scenes of AS pining for a "hopeless" future with EC, especially those daydreaming scenes of her future with EC in the U.S. that definitely looks way out of touch with reality.  Why?  First, I'm sure that AS will somehow find ways to make her relationship with EC work anywhere.  Second, AS should realize that her relationship with EC is not the only matter she has to worry about losing; her own status, future, and life in Joseon, as well as her fight for Joseon independence, is about to be (irreversibly) jeopardized once the Japanese takes over Joseon Korea.

 

 

2 hours ago, aurelionsol said:

 

Hi, 

 

Thoughts - i dont need answer, just read my dear

 

The Mountain - future base Righteous army

 

Have you ever wondered how long it will last? Maybe the emperor try take away his lands after some time (Eugene)? Maybe he will betray them and send an army that will murder everyone or most of them? ( I have a feeling HS father oppose it and will be murdered as high rank joseon officer, Choi properies confiscated and HS mother maybe thrown out onto the street :/)

I doubt that Japan will get his hands dirty and force the emperor to solve the problem with RA. Maybe Japanese troops will attack the Mountain and the emperor will be powerless or say them where they hiding? I have the impression that under pressure he does strange things (forged letter and murdered missionary). He is a very weak emperor or he born in bad period and lost because he had very strong enemies in region. Japan won wars with China, Russia and and they had alliance with the USA or very good political relationship. 

Some of the rebels who survive may leave the country or give up further fighting (Eugene, Aeshin, HS, Hina?). Why? Japan-Korea Treaty of 1905 - Following the Protectorate Treaty of 1905 between Korea and Japan, which stripped Korea of its rights as an independent nation.

The presence of American soldiers will lose their sense and deployed troops will be taken away (Eugene, Kyle). Korea was obliged to become a Japanese protectorate by the Japan–Korea Treaty of 1905 and the "reforms" were enacted, including the reduction of the Korean Army from 20,000 to 1,000 men by disbanding all garrisons in the provinces, retaining only a single garrison in the precincts of Seoul. On 6 January 1905, Horace Allen, head of the American Legation in Seoul reported to his Secretary of State, John Hay, that the Korean government had been advised by the Japanese government "that hereafter the police matters of Seoul will be controlled by the Japanese gendarmerie" and "that a Japanese police inspector will be placed in each prefecture". A large number of Koreans organized themselves in education and reform movements, but Japanese dominance in Korea had become a reality.

 

I came up with a brutal scenario?

This can be reason why they lose hope (betrayal and lack of support) and decide live and be happy. Most of the people they knew would die, run away from the country and maybe few hide in the woods and resist like hunter Hong. 

RA in 1905 consisted of many separate units commanded by independent commanders. I do not remember exactly but it was only in 1908 that they formed an alliance. Previously, they had acted separately and probably didnt work together because the commanders were people from high classes and low classes or they had different opinions.

The English school will be liquidated and most of these girls will die according to my thoughts, many RA members and people like French Baker, former slave hunters, scholars - they are secondary protagonists but their death does not matter? The main characters dont have to die but the price they pay will be huge because lose almost everything what they loved or was precious. I think this series is about survival and being happy after horrible experiences. The series goes in the direction where the main characters have a chance to survive and went in different directions (China, America, Europe, Japan). 

This is just my opinion and we dont have to argue and write essays.

 

 

HI @aurelionsol.  Sorry to cut the last bit of your post.  Incredibly informational (and sobering) post on the bleak outcome of the fate of Joseon Korea, the RA, and so on.

 

Over the 8 remaining episodes, I would like that KES shows scenes of AS really contemplating the consequences, advantages, etc. of proceeding with her initial cause of fighting for Joseon independence, getting more involved in the RA movement and see how the RA (and King Gojong's cabinet and army) act in the face of impending Japanese rule, and then deciding if this something worth fighting for with her life or if she should (more-or-less) renounce her cause and leave Joseon (with EC, if he survives) due to disillusionment over the lack of conviction on both King Gojong and the RA's (who, along with Eun San, are quite a piece of work in this drama) part in protecting her, her loved ones, and the Joseon people of all social backgrounds from the Japanese.

 

If, at the end, AS still believes Joseon is worth fighting for with her life despite Japanese opposition and lack of support from King Gojong (and perhaps some of the RA), then I want her to work together with EC, her loved ones, and some current (Eun San?) and would-be (DM, HS, HN?) RA comrades in understanding the plight of the Joseon people, opposing Japanese rule, and brainstorming how to create a more equal (Joseon) Korea that will protect the rights of all people once the Japanese rule ended.  Again, this is a tall order that should not rest solely on AS' shoulders alone.  But I would appreciate if AS, EC, and others realize that their fight for Joseon does not end with them overthrowing the Japanese (yes, I know, it's futile, but given KES' creative liberties with EC's rank in the U.S. army in that era, who knows?); they need to work on ensuring that the voices and rights of all Joseon people be heard loud and clear (again, not very likely, but it is a noble cause).

 

However, if, after going through the RA movement before (and maybe during) Japanese colonization, AS surmises that it's not worth throwing her life for the cause that King Gojong and the RA will not support for the sake of her, her loved ones, and all the Joseon people during that tumultuous period, then AS should be able to pursue her personal safety and happiness, even if it means leaving Joseon Korea just before the Japanese takes over.  Granted, this may not sit well with some K-netizens, especially pro-nationalistic ones, who would have to witness a character trajectory of a "brave yet privileged Joseon noblewoman advocating Joseon independence at night" renouncing her cause and leaving behind Joseon and its people of all backgrounds who could not escape and will have to suffer the next 30-40 years of Japanese oppression and atrocities.  Nevertheless, as long as KES shows scenes of AS actively partaking in the RA movement and the everyday lives of Joseon people in the remaining episodes, it's not like AS would remain naively stuck in her initial romantic sentiment of Joseon independence and blithely unaware of the predicament of her loved ones and Joseon people.  If KES were to play out a scenario in which AS witnesses King Gojong (and worse, RA) standing by and doing nothing as the Japanese takes over Joseon Korea and starts randomly making examples of any Joseon people (i.e., Japanese soldier or ambassador randomly shooting the town while dragging off  random Joseon common women for their own gratification), then AS has the right to question her initial beliefs of upholding Joseon independence if she decides she cannot trust KIng Gojong and/or the RA to save her, EC, her loved ones, and others.  Perhaps then, AS will truly understand EC's (and DM's) cynicism and distrust towards their mother country that has turned a blind eye on their and their family's senseless hardships (and deaths).  Because, for all AS knows, she (and her loved ones) may find herself at the mercy of the Japanese with no one doing anything to help her- almost like that shoot-out scene involving that despicable Japanese ambassador (whose name, if disclosed, I forgot) and the Joseon spy posing as a geisha (again, don't know her name).  Lastly, by concluding with this kind of scenario, KES will postulate yet another rhetorical question that will most likely outrage K-nets but should be considered noteworthy: Aside from the Japanese oppression and atrocities committed in Korea, did the lack of Joseon Korean government's involvement in ensuring protection of its people's rights also contribute to the destabilizing and breaking of the morale, trust, loyalty, social conduct, etc. of the Joseon people and/or the RA, thus making it more plausible for the Japanese to subdue?

 

My overall point (at the moment now; I may adjust it depending on how the next 8 episodes unfolds) is that I want KES showing scenes of AS moving past her initial "romantic" sentiment/fight for Joseon independence (and her conflict over the plausibility and/or acceptance of her relationship with EC) and getting more involved with both the everyday lives of all Joseon people and the RA movement (with EC and co. on her side) so that she can finally decide where her fate lies.  As long as AS truly witnesses and assesses the actions of the RA, King Gojong, and others in the midst of the Japanese colonization, I'm fine with whatever path she takes.

[[Drama 2018] Mr. Sunshine, 미스터 션샤인 - Winner of Critics’ Choice Award for Drama category]

12 minutes ago, aurelionsol said:

@KDramaLogic

 

I respect you for shedding thoughts in this thread. I wonder whether to join the discussion or to put up a passive attitude. 

A little more and everyone will write such essays 

 

 

Hi!  Given that KES has us viewers scratching our heads out (hopefully not our brains! ) over each character's next motivation, move and/or fate in this rich, complex (and real-life tragic) historical movement in Joseon Korea (and (b)romance for those debating over the AS/EC vs. AS/DM vs. AS/HS vs. HN/DM vs. EC/DM/HS...), there are loads of topics, discussions, etc. to post that would yield nearly 2+ - page-long essays!!!  But that's what I admire about Mr. Sunshine, and I commend KES for being brave enough to make viewers pontificate over the causes, aftermath, etc. of the Joseon period right before the Japanese annexation and not just the usual romantic dynamic tropes.

 

2 hours ago, aurelionsol said:

 

Aeshin, Eugene and a few other characters are just a few interesting people in this period and are unable to stop Japanese domination in the region. The question is whether they will fight until the end and they will die buried in nameless graves or maybe they will fight until they realize that they have the right to live (after many terrifying experiences - war) and decide survive and they will choose different places (Japan, Joseon, America, China, Europe). 

 

Some soompiers do not notice that someone may want to live

 

I also respect your thoughts regarding the current and prospective outcomes of Mr. Sunshine.  First, I, as any other (non-sadistic) viewer, would want every character to survive and have a happy ending by the end of the drama.

 

That being said, we don't know at what period of the Japanese annexation of Joseon Korea KES will showcase at the drama finale.  What we know is that Japan colonization of Korea (and atrocities including the Comfort Women) will prevail for the next 30-40 years since the current timeline of this drama until U.S. launches the atomic bomb at Japan in 1945.  So, it's highly unlikely that any of these main characters will have any satisfactory happy ending in Joseon Korea just as Japan takes over.- that is, if KES chooses to end their saga here.  If they are shown as having stayed in Joseon Korea and fighting together against oppression, and we're flash-forwarded to the end of the Japanese rule, perhaps we may see a bittersweet ending of their 30-40-year-older selves (I think the youngest may be in their 70s! ) looking on at the ambiguous future of Korea and its citizens.

 

Still, I am not certain how other viewers, particularly Korean netizens, would respond to the possible trajectory of AS leaving behind Joseon Korea for her own safety and happiness (with EC, if he survives) in the U.S. or other countries.  The whole Japanese annexation of Korea is an extremely sensitive (and overlooked, no thanks to the Japanese government) historical subject that has vexed K-net viewers over the simplest instances of sympathy towards "traitors" including DM.  So for AS' character trajectory to go from "daring Joseon independence fighter at night but naive- yet rebellious- noblewoman with little or no true understanding about the everyday plight of disadvantaged Koreans (butchers, slaves, etc.) living in Joseon" to a "woman who used her noble status to flee Japan-ruled Korea and leave behind the disadvantaged Joseon people who will have to suffer the Japanese atrocities and oppression" may not sit well with K-nets.

 

Again, AS should be able to think about her future happiness and safety (like EC and DM did as children after witnessing their parents' cruel deaths) and not be burdened with shouldering the fates of Joseon people alone (with ambivalent help from the RA and her "fanboys" EC, DM, and/or HS).

 

At this point, I will wait until Ep. 17 and trust that KES will show scenes of AS truly weighing the consequences of remaining in and fighting for Joseon and its people, rather than just getting stuck defending her love for EC despite "irreconcilable" differences in social status.  We trust that AS will stop at nothing to affirm her relationship with EC; now we just need to see AS exert her evolved stance in her fight for Joseon independence.

 

If, by now, you would like to open a follow-up discussion and mention any plot or characterization I may have missed, please feel free to do so.  I welcome your insight, and I'll do my part in reassessing my points (if needed).  Again, I'm not likely to post often on Soompi; so I'll assume a more passive stance and see how the rest of Mr. Sunshine unfolds.  KES has surprised us with handling this historical matter; so I'll anticipate any unexpected outcomes of the characters' fates in the drama. 

[[Drama 2018] Mr. Sunshine, 미스터 션샤인 - Winner of Critics’ Choice Award for Drama category]

2 hours ago, rubie said:

Have to say that I'm in complete awe at members who write with such precise and thoughtful accuracy, no matter which side you're on! *Salute!* I'd always every so often stop halfway to check the words I'm using will not mean something else (LOL) and in the process, forgets what I'm suppose to write after that. Hah! 

@KDramaLogic to answer your query.. to reply to a specific member without quoting his or her comment, all you have to do is to type '@' followed by the name correctly-spelled (no spaces) which prompts a list of similar usernames to appear. When you see the person you wish to reply to, click on that and it'll appear in reversed bold and they will get a notification which I'm sure you have received a few by now. 

 

 

Sorry to cut/paste your post into two parts: one above, and one below. 

 

In response to the first part above, thanks for the info on how to reply to or refer to a specific Soompi user without quoting.  I'll make sure to do so from now on.  Likewise, I always have to step back and check if I'm using the words and/or phrases to emphasize my original point without inadvertently losing my train of thought. 

 

2 hours ago, rubie said:

 

@mistymorning thanks so much for the DC Gall sharing, I totally get the fishing review.  So funny and very creative indeed! The Korean version of Soompi forum must be bustling non-stop with so much sharing and tidbits of MR.SUNSHINE. If only we could read and understand Korean but .. I think as of now, every forum regardless of languages have their own way of actively sharing the drama.. English, Chinese, Japanese, Thai, Indonesian, Arabic and many more on twitter especially. Nonetheless, it'll be awesome to know what the Korean fans think of the drama.

 

We are of course such fiery fans of MR.SUNSHINE but unlike the scorching heat.. let's all keep our cool, ok. This is such a special thread because we are here. 

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, miracle23 said:

@kansas424, you are new here, right? You may want to backtrack a bit. I have mentioned I won't be commenting much in Soompi. Nevertheless, thank you for the invitation. I believe in regard to AS's character development,  I echoed @KDramaLogic. I  have also written quite lengthy about it in DB. Feel free to drop by.

 

I am seeing it differently from many here as you can see from my earlier posts and that is how my mind works. I don't let my love for an actor or actress clouded my judgement in analysing characters and plots though it won't stop me from enjoying the beauty feast as well. I criticised DM before and I will do it again to him and any characters when I just can't relate.

 

I don't see Soompi any different than DB. So I will assume claim of pulling down any site than the other, a non existent. Please understand as I am understanding why people can't relate to other characters than AS or EC. Because we see and analyse things differently. You may analyse e.g. DM on one perspective. I analysed him by others. I have written lengthy before. My views stand that I find HN, HS, Hotaru and DM are more compelling to date. I came to Mr. Sunshine not for the main love story but for the RA, hence it should give you some idea where my stance is. It does not change since then. You may also deem them as a matter of preference in addition to different way of how I am viewing this drama. Cheers!

 

Off topic, like @miracle23, I won't be commenting that often on Soompi.  Today just happened to be my free day to post my thoughts on the overall progression of Mr. Sunshine here, and I couldn't be happier to receive insightful responses, corrections, and/or advice here.

 

Back to the subject at hand: for the most part, I wouldn't let my bias (love, hate, etc.) towards an actor/actress and his/her "unrelated" personal life issues affect my analysis, judgment, etc. of the characters he/she plays in any TV drama or movie he/she stars in.  The few times that I would have issues with the actor/actress include if he/she comes up short (or fails) in embodying his/her character role, the context of the storyline and characterizations, and so on in a drama/movie/etc. that is mostly well-directed, well-written, and well-portrayed by a majority of the strong cast ensemble.

 

For the most part, all of the Mr. Sunshine cast, including those playing the villains, portray their characters and emphasize their plight in the historical context very well that not one actor/character sticks out like a sore thumb.  When I heard that KES is releasing a drama that will tackle the not-often-seen Joseon period just before the Japanese annexation of Korea, I had to see out she (and the actors) would carry out such a sensitive, heartbreaking moment of Korean history that have had K-net viewers protesting and petitioning out of outrage over the historical "inaccuracies" and lack of disclaimer during the first few episodes of Mr. Sunshine.  Like @miracle23, I'd rather see how AS, EC, DM, HS, and others (including Seung-gu and perhaps HN) would put aside their past grievances/prejudices/traumas and join together alongside the RA (which will need resetting of their priorities) in their fight for the future of Joseon.  While I'm not really here for the romance overall (though those exchanges are cute, funny, and welcoming in lieu of this dark historical context), I acknowledge that AS' relationships/encounters with EC et al. do compel them to re-prioritize their personal positions in Joseon, further driving the plotline amidst the impending Japanese colonization.

 

I continue to look forward to more insight on this drama here as we reach the light at the end of the tunnel (no pun intended, at least)!

 

 

2 hours ago, charray said:

 

Not sure if we are realistic here in making this big ask of Ae Shin to bear the burden of saving Joseon and making Joseon a better place for people of all walks of life to live in by herself? Based on what I googled, the roles and rights of women were reduced in Joseon compared to previous eras in Korean history. Yangban women had it worse as they were completely hidden from the outer world and every woman had to conform to Confucian ideals of purity, obedience, chastity and faithfulness. Women were subjects of male dominance throughout their lives, obliged to listen to their fathers, husbands, fathers-in-law and firstborn sons. Homes were divided into male and female quarters to separate the sexes. 

 

So far, her role in the Righteous Army is a sniper who take on the odd mission here and there at the order of Gunner Jang. Unlike Grandfather who can command and galvanise scholars and commoners to his cause.  Ae Shin has not reached the level yet to galvanise and command anyone except her fanboys and right hand and left hand men. Not sure what we can expect her to do?

 

Once more, sorry to cut your post.  Obviously, it's an extremely tall order for AS to bear the burden of ensuring the safety and future of the Joseon people on her own, with her only support being EC, her servants/slaves and fanboys (DM and HS).  But, considering AS' grandfather's predicament (preferably not death sentence by Wan Ik but, given the Ep. 17 preview and spolier pics, doesn't look promising ), someone will have to take his position in bringing together the scholars and Joseon people of all social backgrounds in their fight against Japanese rule.  And who better to do it than AS, EC, and other current (Eun San?) and would-be (DM, HS, etc.) RA compatriots?

 

Now, I do realize that all women,- yangban/noble, slave, butcher, etc.- have been undermined in the patriarchal society in Joseon; hence, AS may have more difficulty publicly declaring her position as a Joseon independence fighter.  However, one thing I would like to point out (which may or may not explain why some Soompiers and beanies from Dramabeans are frustrated with AS' current character trajectory compared to the AS fanboys- EC, DM, and HS), is that AS' grandfather, despite his apparent admonishment of AS' rebellious, "unladylike" streak, allowed her to be recognized as part of his family despite being born out of wedlock (with a woman whom he might not have approved of), receive rifle training from Seung-gu for over 10 years, and even just argue about whatever he says.  Not to mention that AS' grandfather does not appear to wield any (homicidal) tyranny over his servants/slaves like HS' grandfather has done.  In typical yangban households, AS would never receive any of the privileges and end being treated no better than the servants or slaves.  Furthermore, as a noblewoman, AS did not have to suffer extreme social injustices and mistreatment like HN, EC's mother (i.e., offered as a pawn by HS' grandfather for political purposes despite being married), and DM's mother (i.e., being raped while her butcher husband helplessly goes on with his work).

 

Given that there are 8 remaining episodes with 4 other major characters at hand (EC, DM, HS, and HN), only time will tell if AS will either renounce her fight for Joseon and flee from the Japanese rule for her personal safety and happiness (with EC, assuming he or both survive), or renounce her noblewoman upbringing and join EC, the RA comrades and others and fight for Joseon while staying there during the next 30-40 years Japanese oppression.

 

As always, if I missed any other plot point or characterization, please let me know!  Darn these long posts! 

[[Drama 2018] Mr. Sunshine, 미스터 션샤인 - Winner of Critics’ Choice Award for Drama category]

2 hours ago, Seoulmemories said:

@KDramaLogic I like what you wrote mostly but I think I don't blame AS for not seeing the plight of the lower class.

 

As a noblelady, although she goes for physical training, she must have led a very sheltered life. Since I assume in her household, her slaves must have been kindly and fairly treated, she probably thought everyone does the same thing with their slaves. She probably grew up with a tunnel vision of slaves Are slaves and that's the way society is structured, so she couldn't accept at first that EC was actually a slave by background.

 

Her world is fairly black n white, that's why like what you said she can't see DM beyond his facade. 

 

But I don't blame her, a person is a product of their upbringing, hopefully now that she is older and going out more, she grows to see other perspectives in life.

 

......

 

 

 

 

Thanks for your feedback on AS' character growth- something which, I admit, I'll need to step back and remember how far she has gotten along since the beginning.  Despite her grandfather's outward chastisements, he did treat his family, servants, slaves and other members of the household fairly well (even more so, compared to HS' family)- hence, AS' cluelessness over the actual systematic prejudice/discrimination/mistreatment of EC, DM, Seung-gu, and other Joseon people who are not from the noble class.  Not to mention that this drama has at least 5 major characters- AS, EC, DM, HS, HN- all of whom KES, so far, has brought more depth and characterization than I'd normally find in several K-dramas.  So, it'll take a while for each character's full potential to be realized, particularly, in this case, regarding their stance in Joseon.  Since we have 8 remaining episodes, I'll sit back and trust that AS will evolve past her noble upbringing, take up her parents' stead in the RA,  fight alongside EC and others against the Japanese oppression of Joseon Korea, and (hopefully) find ways toward establishing and protecting the rights of all Joseon people of all backgrounds.

 

2 hours ago, miracle23 said:

@kansas424 I think I remember seeing a similar claim about DB being a cancerous site at the comment section. Honestly, if I were to be such commenter, I would claim similarly with Soompi as I have seen and read quite a number of fanatic postings and bashings but thanks and kudos to the mods controlling them before things get really out of hand. Having said that, I am not going to put myself on the same pedestal by making such claim. I refuse to judge people and their preferences. I would rather having the space to discuss why a certain character is flawed in my opinion and why others are more compelling instead of simply accusing the commenters for having views that are evidently in contrast than mine. It is their rights to feel what they feel for any characters or plots. We really should not go to that route. Such attack itself is worst than being cancerous. It just shows how ones can't accept differences in preferences/opinions.  Not everyone can relate with what AS is as of 16 ep than what AS was in the beginning. Many of the commenters are actually rooting for AS as a character from the beginning but until recent eps, some has indicated their frustrations from their observations. And I am among them. And I am also one that root for the supporting roles, DM included. Hence, I will not be backed down by comments like fangirls or cancerous s***. Please have some respect when writing here. I believe all of us here are grown ups. Soompi is not that much different in purpose than DB since it provides space for kdrama fans to mingle and enjoy sharing their likes and dislikes of kdrama. Let's keep it peaceful in both places. I personally find beanies are a funny bunch where I envy, in a positive way, their articulate and creative minds. It makes reading their comments so enjoyable despite we are not sharing views on some points.

 

 @KDramaLogic welcome my dear and thank you for such a good written constructive discussion. You have explained really well on behalf of the majority of beanies frequenting Mr. Sunshine recap section. We discuss thoughts and not who likes what. I hope people understand this. Keep on writing, I look forward to read your views.

 

 

Sorry to cut your post!   Thanks for welcoming me as well, and I'm flattered to hear from you that I am speaking on behalf of the majority of the beanies there too!  While I concede that Dramabeans, Soompi, and other K-drama websites will have some extreme biased comments (because we're human), I was offended to hear on this thread that Dramabeans is a "cancerous" place for "DM fangirls" to "hate" on AS just because AS/DM won't happen.  As far as I saw on the Ep. 15 recap, the majority of comments posting negatively about AS are frustrated about AS' relative lack of character growth/cause for fighting for Joseon compared to EC, DM, HS, and other characters whose actions are further moving the plot than AS'- even some of those who are trying to support AS/EC relationship.  I believe a majority of both Soompiers and beanies gather round to understand and enjoy the characterizations, dynamics, and storyline/context of any K-drama we're watching- something which KES definitely delivers here!

 

I agree with you that both Dramabeans and Soompi provide platforms for K-drama fans to share their likes, dislikes, expectations, etc. of K-dramas they watch.  Some may be insightful, short, or otherwise.  I also appreciate different insights without outright accusations; for, as far as we're concerned, there may be some plot points or characterizations we've missed upon first, second, or other viewing of the same drama/episode until another comment addresses this.  For instance, I missed out the part where AS decided to give up on her revenge quest regarding her parents' senseless murder (in the hands of Wan-Ik) and told off Eun San for assuming EC would act against the RA until kansas424 (again, sorry, don't know how to post the profile link on the posts) responded to my first post.

 

So, thanks, and let's wait out the next 4-5 days until Ep. 17 of Mr. Sunshine! 

[[Drama 2018] Mr. Sunshine, 미스터 션샤인 - Winner of Critics’ Choice Award for Drama category]

3 hours ago, rubie said:

 

@KDramaLogic welcome to the drama thread.. you brought a thought-provoking gift. Fans of MR.SUNSHINE really shining bright!

 

Sorry to cut your post in two and not necessarily in order!  Thank you for welcoming me, and, yes, fans of Mr. Sunshine keep on shining!!!! 

 

 

3 hours ago, rubie said:

Regarding DB, I was contemplating whether to continue highlighting the recaps here. But I'm hoping to be as open as possible and remembering that it used to be a great blog from a long time ago. It may not be the same impartial site but a recap by DB is quite a privilege of sorts for MR.SUNSHINE. Imaginable it's quite the task to recap an entire episode twice a week and another task to read through the replies but there are still good positive comments to read. Having been through SLS before, I understand the feeling watching a drama not to our preferences and the frustration of not enjoying it fully as we tend to see what we want to see. It's either we swallow or spit out the bitter aftertaste. It sucks having such a drama within a drama.. maybe that was what the writer intended all along. Strong reaction means it's shaping to be a drama well-written.. hopefully.

 

Perhaps, there's no need to highlight the DB recap here anymore. I think we all know it'll be posted soon after the weekend airing of the episodes. With just 8 more episodes to go.. like the kicka$$ ladies of Joseon and the 3 fanboys, along with the ever-growing RA community ready to defend the nation, let's do the same. 

 

Regarding the elusive "K".. the famously-overlooked alphabet throughout Ae Shin's lessons. Both LBH and KTR are movie actors, who definitely are as professional as can be in their daring roles.. but MR.SUNSHINE is set in a period modest setting.. some 100+ years ago. Maybe a peck of a kiss is all that we'll get but who knows what KES is thinking in EuShin's minds. I thought the longing, gazing and embrace have been well acted out by the star-crossed lovers. But we wouldn't complain if the letter K comes along.. eventually.

 

I hope no one will be too upset.. except to the misleading previews. Please consider this as ramblings of an old school fan-girl. 

 

 

For this drama, Dramabeans usually posts recaps for odd-number episodes on Mondays, and even-number episodes on Tuesdays.  So, perhaps the DB recap may not need to be highlighted here anymore.  It's just that there may be some Soompiers who may appreciate getting redirected from this thread to the Dramabeans episode recap.  Personally, I could just directly go to Dramabeans (and Soompi) rather than rely on redirected links.  But, I cannot speak for others.  So, again, I enjoy reading your posts and appreciate your efforts in highlighting the Dramabeans recaps 

 

Admittedly, ever since Dramabeans changed its website format sometime this year, the recaps, posts, etc. have become less impartial on certain Tv dramas, movies, etc. that they choose.  Noticeably, the main Dramabeans creators including javabeans have more-or-less ceased in recapping dramas, as well as posting News Bites and other features.  If anyone wanted to check on Dramabeans any dramas or news that are not officially posted by Dramabeans users, then they'd have to check the Fan Post page, which, while somewhat informational, is rather disorganized and, of course, less impartial.

 

As for the SLS and "drama within a drama within a drama...", I'd say that phenomenon is not limited to KES dramas or any other Korean dramas/movies only; it's found anywhere in any country (i.e., Gossip Girl- the whole Blair/Chuck vs. Blair/Dan debacle was pretty rabid during the later seasons on the official CW threads/blogs, YouTube, and other (fan)sites ).  So, yes, this could take away some (but hopefully not all) the fun of watching the drama/movie/etc., especially if you are looking for neutral recaps, feedback and/or comments on the said work that would either align, differ, or even challenge your earlier thoughts.

 

Having said that, I think KES envisioned a very poignant, beautiful, and immersive storyline that highlights both the historical context of Joseon in the face of the (unfortunately inevitable) Japanese annexation and the plight of the people/characters whose loyalty (or lack thereof) to their mother country is tested in different ways during that period.  So, for me, the whole AS/EC vs. AS/DM vs. AS/HS vs. EC/DM/HS dynamics is somewhat secondary- but, to some extent, still essential- to the overall big picture of how and why these characters will work together towards fighting for Joseon and their people before (and hopefully during and after) the Japanese colonization rule.  If anything, these encounters/dynamics have compelled these four characters (and HN and other characters) to reassess their own and each other's personal backgrounds, losses, and stance for the future of Joseon- something I hope that KES focuses more on toward the later episodes rather than the whole "Will ___ end up with ____?" trope.

 

Somewhere down the road, K will arrive- and not that "kiss-on-the-cheek", which, in AS' (and KES') defense, occurred only in her imagination.  There is that saying: sometimes, the real thing is better than what you imagine. 

 

2 hours ago, aurelionsol said:

@KDramaLogic peacful opinion

 

Aeshin grow up (she change very much from 1st episode, especially recently in connection with RA and her relationship with EC). 

She will not change her rebellious character and certain habits so quickly and she needs more time. She already noticed that Eugene's decisions are thoughtful and calm and many other things but she fight for her man right now. Even DM works for her and I think Lord Go will discover and understand that she protects the family more than he does. Maybe even give her leadership because he getting old and not keeping up with the changes. Eugene become new leader RA when potter resign (many mistakes even though I like him in general). It is time for young people to defend their homeland and people they love.

 

First of all, thanks!  I also appreciate peaceful and relatively objective opinions (for we are humans with embedded bias even though we like to tell ourselves otherwise...).

 

I apologize if I sounded rather harsh and judgmental on AS' recent actions and thought-process in the more recent episodes.  It is true that AS is growing up and reevaluating her position both as a Joseon noblewoman and a (potentially more prominent) independence fighter alongside the RA, thanks to her encounters with EC, DM, HS, HN, Seung-gu, her grandfather and others.  I also hope that others, particularly her grandfather, will acknowledge AS's cause for protecting Joseon from Japan as means of protecting those whom she love, and that they would help her evolve and share a similar cause in fighting for Joseon.  Last but not least, I don't want AS to give up her rebellious streak; after all, that's what EC, DM, HS, and we the audience love about her! 

 

Till then, I hope that AS's thoughts focus somewhat less (for the sake of the plot and historical context of the drama) on protecting her love for EC (we know that, given AS' passionate, rebellious nature, she will let nothing stand in the way of her love for EC ) and more on understanding the current plight of the Joseon people of all backgrounds so that she could work with others not only to fight off the Japanese rule (which, unfortunately, will prevail in the next 30-40 years) but also establish a more egalitarian Joseon that champions the rights of all its citizens regardless of their social status.

 

2 hours ago, kansas424 said:

Appreciate the effort, but you should really take a look at the comment section to really understand why they hate on AeShin. 

I disagree about the lack of character evolution of AS that you were talking about. Regarding her RA involvement, you only need to watch EP 15 to observe her growth. The conversation between AS and Eun San, whereby she claimed she knew EC would never harm the RA and especially the potter. And even giving up the chance to take revenge on the man responsible for the death of her parent, to resolve the whole RA vs EC and Joseph's death saga. 

Watch the whole conversation between AS and her grandpa. How she refused to safeguard her own future by getting married. And when grandpa ask for Eugene, she stopped him from doing so knowing EC will get hurt by his grandpa with regard to his slave origin. Wow, a female character taking initiative to protect her love one? This is unlike any past korean drama, whereby woman has always been portrayed as weak and requires protection from their man.

She's readied to live her life alone than betraying her love for EC. 

Lots of review on AeShin has been written in weibo and heaped with praises. Which is why it shocked the hell out of me when AeShin was hated, like literally the only place you can find such comment, which happens to be the hideout of Dong Mae nation aka Dramabean. 

 

First, I appreciate your honest assessment on both my post and the Dramabeans recaps/comments.  Also, thanks for pointing out that one scene where AS decides to give up her quest of seeking revenge on the person who murdered her parents (Wan Ik, obviously); I did not catch that right away upon recalling. 

 

Since I cannot read in Korean or Chinese, I wouldn't trust the (relatively inaccurate) Google Translate in translating whatever Naver (Korean), Weibo (Chinese), and other non-English website posts related to Mr. Sunshine.  Dramabeans (and Soompi) are the closest English websites on Korean dramas/movies/etc. that I could rely on for updated information, recaps, and/or comments.  As I mentioned to rubie (again, I'm new to posting Soompi comments, so I'm not sure how to link Soompi users in reply posts other than quoting/cutting their posts), I concur the new Dramabeans recaps, comments, and fan posts have become increasingly more opinionated to the point that not a lot of the shows I watch are being recapped (due to Dramabeans users' personal schedule, interests in the drama, etc.).  Still, Dramabeans is one of the few English websites I know that is recapping this drama.  If there are any other English websites that offer K-drama/movie/etc. recaps, including Mr. Sunshine, please let me know.  I'd appreciate it!

 

In addition, as mentioned in my earlier post, I already concurred that the Dramabeans recaps of earlier episodes contained substantial number of comments incessantly "hating" on AS for snubbing the "more attractive, age-appropriate, brooding" DM.  And, btw, I will not speak on behalf of those commenting with that sort of mentality; for I also posted that AS and DM, so far, have not established any substantial understanding of each other that's worth shipping; if anything, even AS and HS have a better understanding of each other's predicament (and that's not saying much).  But, as far as I could see in at least the Ep 15 recap/comment section, I've seen mostly posts that, if directed negatively towards AS, are calling out AS' clinging to the romantic notion of fighting for Joseon, lack of further insight on the everyday plight of Joseon people from non-noble classes, and relatively lack of participation in RA movements compared to EC, HS, and even DM.  Then again, I just read the recap earlier this morning (which had only 25-30 comments), so maybe more of those "DM fanfirls hate AS just because she snubs DM" comments will show up later today. 

 

Again, as I mentioned to aurelionsol (again, don't know how to link the profile here), I apologize if I came off rather critical of AS's actions in the recent episodes, particularly in regards to her stance on Joseon independence. I am glad that AS called out Eun San's BS in foolishly labeling EC as a traitor to the RA (seriously, Eun San, you of all people!?) and fought for her love for EC despite her grandfather's rejection due to EC's prior slave background and occupation as an American soldier.  Still, most of AS' scenes since EC's postulating of "Will your Joseon include butchers, slaves, etc.?" have focused more on her exploring and defending her relationship with EC (which I commend KES for developing in a plausible manner amidst the historical period) yet less on her contemplating the prospects of the RA and Joseon people amidst the impending Japanese colonization of Joseon Korea.  It's almost as though AS views Joseon as some afterthought or ideology rather than a nation with people of all backgrounds whose lives are at stakes and whose voices need to be heard.  It's even more apparent when EC, while contemplating his love for AS and trying to make peace with his futile revenge(?) against HS' family for his parents' death, is shown taking more proactive steps toward defending Joseon (i.e., assuming the position as Joseon Royal Guard) even though he, as an American soldier and former Joseon slave, can walk away from Joseon any time.

 

Then again, there are 8 episodes remaining (assuming that KES sticks with the 24-episode format); so hopefully AS will have more scenes of evolving in her stance and proactively fighting alongside EC, the RA, and others for Joseon independence.  We all know that AS' rebellious streak will forbid anyone from undermining her relationship with EC; now she should channel that rebellion into reaffirming her fight for the Joseon nation and its people.

 

As always, if I missed any characterization or plot point, please let me know!  Whew, long post again...sorry!