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2 minutes ago, ForgottenSoulx said:

How anyone has sympathy for Han Seo Jin ill never get she has done nothing good this entire show and has just caused suffering after suffering its like if she killed someone directly people would still defend her i dont get it. 

 

Sympathy is merely just understanding the character. 

That does not mean I agree with her actions and decisions. 

That also does not mean I dislike her character. 

It is a matter of observing and understanding. 

 

Her character's ambitions are structured by the society's status quo. She chose to follow that status quo and suffers with it to be a successful mom and mother in-law. This leads to holding up pride or "face" as the Asians will say it. I sympathize for her character because someone out there in my family or family's friend who too is suffering like that. After all, I escape from reality to watch a drama for pleasure. That pleasure is because I somehow relate it to real life.

 

Ironically, I am not escaping from reality because a drama is an exaggerated representation of life itself. I definitely did learn a lot from this drama though. The parents are filled with ambitions to fulfill this goal, but they forget to love each other. And lastly, they forget to love their kids with an exception of Woojoo's mom and the twins' mom. 

I will like to share this quote with everyone:

"Hatred paralyzes life, love releases it.

 Hatred confuses life, love harmonizes it.

 Hatred darkens life, love illuminates it."

 Martin Luther King, Jr.

 

What are your thoughts now? 

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1 hour ago, justamom said:

We’re heading into the final stretch now...and everything is starting to unravel. I actually found episodes 17 and 18 a little slow. Yesterday was Yeh Suh’s awakening, today it’s Kang Joon Sang...

 

But I like how his story, and his relationship with his mother unraveled.

 

Sometime back I read a study of university students in Singapore (where I’m from) and students expressed sadness that “my parents only like the child who gets good grades, they don’t love me for who I am.”

 

P.S. in answer to my question last night, how many of you would be willing to sacrifice your child’s future? I saw some Korean forum articles about this. And the sad thing is, most people said they would choose to do exactly what Kwak Mi Hyang is doing - to protect their child’s future.

 

 

 

I love your insights about the Kang family @justamom

"My parents only like the child who gets good grades, they don't love me for who I am."

I think parents are wired to think that success is survival in modern times. Success means work harder, study harder, get good grades, get a good job and have a good title. And so, when parents see the "bad grades" they tend to think their children aren't going to succeed and won't be able to make it in the real world. This mentality is triggered by love. Love is pain. Love is blissful. Love is everything. 

(This perspective is coming from an adult child who is still living with her parents. I have grown to acknowledge my parents' view of success, but it does not mean that I agree with them.)

 

Lastly, I think KMH is stuck in this little bubble she has set herself into with her husband. Her situation is sort of like Professor Cha who only thinks about the pyramid (success). Even though it is hard, I would not say sacrificing my child's future is protecting her. Rather it is harming her because she will be stuck with these feelings of guilt. Eventually, she will break down in her adulthood just as her dad did with his own mother in episode 17 and 18. 

 

So I will like to share quotes from my favorite book, Love for Imperfect Things by Haemin Sunim:

"Ask yourself:

 What are the values that guide my life?

 What do I want to achieve in my life?

 If the answer is clear, you can live more confidently,

 knowing your life's direction

 and that you are not mindlessly following the herd." 

 

"If you just go along with the crowd

 without trying to figure out

 what you really want to do, 

 you'll likely wind up striving to succeed

 in a highly competitive profession."

 

The three generations of the Kang family are mindlessly following the herd. I am glad the dad has finally woken up "to wake up" the entire family. It is amazing that the shots of the family are illuminated with bright light in the last two episodes! The family may seem like they are breaking apart, but they are individually voicing their opinions. I honestly they are coming together to acknowledge each other rather than just ordering each other to do this and that. In addition, they are putting down each other's ego/pride to figure things out. If anything, this family has taught me to evaluate my values, know my life's direction and embrace my family members. 

 

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23 minutes ago, ponderings said:

 

Sympathy is merely just understanding the character. 

That does not mean I agree with her actions and decisions. 

That also does not mean I dislike her character. 

It is a matter of observing and understanding. 

 

Her character's ambitions are structured by the society's status quo. She chose to follow that status quo and suffers with it to be a successful mom and mother in-law. This leads to holding up pride or "face" as the Asians will say it. I sympathize for her character because someone out there in my family or family's friend who too is suffering like that. After all, I escape from reality to watch a drama for pleasure. That pleasure is because I somehow relate it to real life.

 

Ironically, I am not escaping from reality because a drama is an exaggerated representation of life itself. I definitely did learn a lot from this drama though. The parents are filled with ambitions to fulfill this goal, but they forget to love each other. And lastly, they forget to love their kids with an exception of Woojoo's mom and the twins' mom. 

I will like to share this quote with everyone:

"Hatred paralyzes life, love releases it.

 Hatred confuses life, love harmonizes it.

 Hatred darkens life, love illuminates it."

 Martin Luther King, Jr.

 

What are your thoughts now? 

 

I can have sympathy to a certain extent but after what she did to HN and Woojoo i cant like her one bit, you can have ambitions but ruining other's life's i have 0 sympathy for. 

 

I have alot of sympathy for Ye Seo but for her mum i have none for.

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10 minutes ago, ForgottenSoulx said:

 

I can have sympathy to a certain extent but after what she did to HN and Woojoo i cant like her one bit, you can have ambitions but ruining other's life's i have 0 sympathy for. 

 

I have alot of sympathy for Ye Seo but for her mum i have none for.

Ok. I take that. Thank you for sharing your opinion (:

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"Until when you will be obsessed with what people think of you?" is the highlight of episode 18 for me.

 

I think Joon Sang made the best choice to resign and advise Seo Jin to make a choice whether to reveal the truth and keep their pride or keep being greedy instead of revealing it himself.

 

It is annoying when Prof Cha demands Seung Hye to write 10 A4 pages apology letter with font 11, but she is wise to take it as her regret to think that broken people can be fixed and changed.

 

Joon Sang's mom and him are the only ones who are blind and crazy about position and status, but the former show her realization of what her son want when he said "Can I just be your son?" while the latter first reaction to the his wife's letter is "Mid-term exams is just around the corner, so they can't waste time even for a second".

 

As much as I dislike Seo Jin, I can see her inner conflicts, and hence she realizes about his husband's advice that Ye Suh and her life are different. Do Ye Suh actually really want to get enrolled into SNU herself or she is no different from her dad's conditioning? Do Seo Jin want her daughter to be admitted really because of Ye Suh's future or is it because of her greedy? Even if it is latter, she was groomed to become like that by Joon Sang and his mom, like what he said that they both have been living wrongly.

 

That's why this is the cliffhanger as she is handed with the mid-term exams paper, what is her choice? Will she choose to stop and cure this long-lasting cycle of disease in society from her family or to justify her situation as a victim and don't think it is something worth to do? After all, she comes from so-called "low class" people, hence her choice is major arc of the story. 

 

Argh, counting days before next episode come. Also, it will be final week already!

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I definitely agree with you @Ahmad Kamil! I love how you mentioned that Joon Sang made a choice to resign and advised his wife to make a choice about the situation. They have a choice on how to live! This is probably Joon Sang's first time making his own choice on his own values without following his mom's desires. And I am glad that he respects his wife as a wife to make the decision. The moment when he aligns himself is the moment when he wishes the best for him and his family.

 

He said, "If only I had been mature...If only I had known...to look at what's around and behind me instead of focusing solely on reaching the top, I wouldn't have killed Hye Na like that." 

 

The Kang family parallels with the Cha family. Righter after the scene of Joon Sang talking to his wife and his mom, we visually see Professor Cha walking into an empty house with no furniture. It is just him and his pyramid. It is such a delight to see it. The suffering of one can lead to a suffering of many. I am glad that Seung Hye, his wife, chose to leave him with her kids. It's quite interesting that in her letter she mentions that she married him to run away from her patriarchal father. Only she meets a patriarchal husband. And that is her regret, meeting him. 

 

Ultimately the pyramid is a symbolism of what the adults are driving themselves and their families into death. 

In order to succeed and reach the top, they do anything to get their kids to pass tests and get accepted into the "best school". While they are reaching the top, they are "dead" and "empty". Notice that the pyramid is a resting place/tomb for the pharaoh, meaning "great" or "high".

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Additional observations for episode 18:

 

One of my favorite scenes is when Kwak Mi Yang comes to her daughter's room. Usually she stands and orders her daughter to do this and that. But this time she sits down and shows her vulnerability. She feels for her daughter and she leans on her daughter's shoulder. It is truly beautiful to see a mom and daughter coming together even under all this turmoil.

xaboUiJ.jpg

 

My second scene is when the adults are coming together. The light is shining in as if they are all being enlightened. 

The dad is questioning on how they live and waking them up. I love that he and his wife are essentially kids at heart. Joon Sang is finally learning to live and he is finally questioning his values. He is finally looking at his wife and giving her a choice on how to live.

 

kCJva3r.jpg

 

My last favorite scene of this family is when we see Ye Suh at the top of the stairs, mom standing at the middle ground, and the mother in-law weeping! WE have never seen this mother in-law saw vulnerable. She has finally broken down her wall especially when she tries sooo hard to hide her thoughts and emotions. Props to the actress for doing so well! 

 

FZOTl2V.jpg

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7 minutes ago, Ahmad Kamil said:

Ratings finally exceeded 20%! Episode 18 records 22.316% (Metropolitan area 24.501%).

 

Yesssss the drama cast and crew deserve it!!! 

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Like seriously,  there's leakage? 

 

EPISODE 18

 

Nationwide - 22.316%/5.95 Million viewers

Seoul - 24.501%/2.951 Million viewers

 

The Kang family started out with a huge desire for their daughter to be admitted to SNU,  to continue their legacy of having a generation of family of doctors. 

 

They tried to follow their greed in order to do that. Hurting people around them,  their daughters,  and even themselves in the process. 

 

But I guess,  as the series concludes,  what they might end is the cycle of hypocrisy and greed,  and live the life that will make them truly happy. 

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Incredibly rating's could have hit over 50% on non cable i think.. such deserved rating's just for this acting. 

4 hours ago, SaiSai1988 said:

The Kang family started out with a huge desire for their daughter to be admitted to SNU,  to continue their legacy of having a generation of family of doctors. 

 

They tried to follow their greed in order to do that. Hurting people around them,  their daughters,  and even themselves in the process. 

 

But I guess,  as they series concludes,  what they might end is the cycle of hypocrisy and greed,  and live the live that will make them truly happy. 

 

This is what i hope they need to start turning back. 

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Watching ep 18, I feel sorry for YeSeo actually. She is smart and was doing just fine with her other tutors and was first place even before she met KJY. KJY has really destroyed every student she's taught. Her mental state has totally broken down at end of ep 18. And to think HSJ still goes to look for KJY? What for?? How can she expect YeSeo to still go for lessons with KJY? If HSK really takes those papers, she's just joined KJY in being an accomplice. There's no turning back and saying they didn't know. 

 

I loved Seri's scene when she was pretending she was on the phone when talking about her dad. Savage! 

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Congrats sky castle! Despite the script leak, they still manage to achieve 20++% ratings! Amazing!

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Wow I said it before and I'll say it again HSJ for me is worse that KJY. We know coach Kim is crazy (surely nobody doubt that now after the unhinged laughter watching the video). HSJ on the other hand has a conscience and feels empathy but still chooses to be an evil manipulative cow. The gall of the woman to go visit WJ. The way she tried making Ye Bin feel bad for telling the truth and asking if she didn't think about her dad's feeling. The way she uses her husbands part in HN's death to push his buttons and emotionally corner him, I mean yeh he guilty but the reasons for her mentioning it is just straight out her being a conniving richard simmons. How can she still keep going down that path with what she just witnessed between her husband and MIL, plus what he said to her. More importantly how can she continue seeing the turmoil Yesuh is in. She straight up having a mentally breakdown in front her eyes, the look on Yesuh's when asking am I really going be ok screamed save me mum but instead she talk about making it through one more semester. She must think med school is gonna be a breeze... How could she walk away seeing her in the study cell tearing up the paper. Instead of running to batshit Crazy Kim she should've been engulfing Yesuh in the biggest hug ever and having a book burn party whilst cheersing with some banana milk.  Her only redemption now would be if she takes them papers batshit Crazy Kim  gave her and puts it with the other pool of evidence and use it help stop her and bring her down. If not Writernim better rain down some sort of fire and brimstone on her as well as crazy Kim. 

So glad the dad's seeing the light costly as it is. The best lines that sums up some what to me is the heart of the social commentary this drama: You groomed and trimmed me, don't you think you've had enough applause. Then when he told his wife Yesuh's life is different to yours. Acting and writing on point! 

 

How can Prof Cha be so smart and so thick, she gave him nuff signs she was tired of his antics.  Loving the turn around in the Cha family. Mamma bear ain't playing no more she going protect cubs. His delusions of grandeur gonna cost him dearly. Her letter to him was perfect loved it. 

 

Uuurrggh why we have to wait a whole week....

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Despite coming from a different set up, this show has made me think twice about how to approach education. I wanted to judge the Koreans who were influenced by the show to get education consultants for their children, but if I think about it critically, there is some sense in hiring a consultant. I'm sure a real life consultant isn't as crazy as Coach Kim :sweatingbullets: (I hope!! Lol.) The education structure in Korea would demand someone like this, so to be honest, the logic of a consultant, within reasonable borders and proper oversight by parents is something I can get behind.

 

Spoiler

 

Where I'm from, the education system is just as brutal, with two final national exams, one at the end of primary education, which determines the secondary school you will go to, and one at the end of secondary, which determines your university education. The only difference is that we do not have a sickening national desire to enter the elite universities, or a ridiculously classist and elitist society that boxes you because of your parents, education or wealth status. This structures exist, but not to the rabid Korean levels. Social mobility is possible but hindered mainly by the state of the economy, not by unchangeable variables like your lineage. However, your marks in the secondary exam determine the course you will do. Medicine, architecture, pharmacy, and those big ticket courses are reserved for the top performers.

 

In my case, I would hire a consultant, to ensure my kid remains focused, and coordinate the child's education and extracurricular activities, especially if I'm working.... to sort of be my eyes..... but not to do applications and entrance essays on my child's behalf like these Korean ones....

 

 

Also, in as much as Prof Cha is ridiculous, his analysis of the world is spot on. That's the way the world operates. Elite, upper class, middle class, low class. And education is a fundamental way to create and access these classes!! How do we level the pyramid? Make quality education accessible across the board regardless of your income bracket? Etc....

 

I was so glad to see YeSeo's dad finally break down and confront everyone. Some Korean comments I read from the links here had no sympathy for him, but kudos to the actor!! His crying and wailing was one of the highlights of the show for me!! Whoa!! He's learned his lesson quickly and is willing to learn the lesson for the greater good of his family.

 

I want to castigate SuJin but the writer has made her dilemma so understandable that I can't even hate her for picking the leaked exam papers! Her acceptance in the family is predicated on YeSeo entering SNU. They have worked hard and honestly, only to be undermined at the very last moment. YeSeo is innocent of the theft but will pay for her parents greed... man, what decision do I make so that she is spared the consequences??? But SuJin still a manipulative liar who needs to learn a lesson..... Writernim is amazing!!

 

Shoot me but a tiny part of me wondered if that leak was deliberate,to excite people more and get even higher ratings. Even if it wasn't, if I was an executive at JTBC, I would see the upside of the leak. I'm still excited for the ratings though, I see extreme ratings on Saturday night!! I don't have much taste in fashion, but I know a good drama right from the synopsis!

 

What will I do with my life after next weekend? 

 

PS. Someone should start a petition for Coach Kim to do a melodrama as the protagonist!! Too many evil roles! It's enough! I'm sure she'd kill it as a melo protagonist!! I want to see her in a kiss scene!!

 

PPS: Why did Yeseo's dad shave his moustache!!!:tears: he was so daddy with it!!!

 

PPPS: there's a composition that was played in ep 18 called Ma Mere L'Oye (My Mother Goose)

 

You can read more at this link .

 

"The Ravel Mother Goose suite (Ma Mere l'Oye) is a charmingly delicate and imaginative little suite of fairytale pieces.....Ravel first wrote the Mother Goose Suite in 1908 for two children whose parents he was friends with, in a four-hand suite for solo piano. The children, Mimi and Jean Godebski, were extremely fond of him since he told them fairytales, some of which he made up on the spot!"

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Forget what I said about Mr. Jo yikes he's our next Coach Kim

 

After her husband's breakdown in front of his mother, I honestly think HSJ is going to take those exam papers to the police station. Now she realizes that Yeseo's mental health won't get any better even after getting accepted into SNU.

 

HSJ has two choices: either listen to her husband's advice or follow her MIL. I really want to believe that she will give up SNU and save Yeseo and Woojoo. Yeseo is losing it and she might not even do well on the exam with all that guilt on her shoulders. I think it's better to come out clean and repent rather than getting exposed and flamed.

 

On the other hand, if she uses that stolen exam to get her kid a full score, then I won't have an ounce of sympathy for her. I hope KJS divorces her because of the bad choices she's made and takes the kids with him.

Edited by auberon
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Okay after watching episode 18, im totally panicking, WTF is she gonna do with Kay? Kay didn't do anything much less have any screen time in the last few episodes, leave her alone! hihi

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I just started watching this drama. It is an amazing drama!! I love it and I truly regret not starting it earlier so I can participate in the discussion here. Am catching up with the posts in this thread as I watch the episodes. I actually have so much in my mind to say because I am very much into education. But mostly are already shared here and I am only on page 8.  

Will be quite busy for the weeks ahead so I doubt I can contribute much here. We'll see. I might just forgo some sleep time, lol...

 

My fave family is the Cha family too. I love the mom there. I think she has great self-control, and thread her steps very carefully but calculated. I disagree with her husband that she is always one step too slow. 

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1 hour ago, auberon said:

Forget what I said about Mr. Jo yikes he's our next Coach Kim

 

 

IKR! He's so hard to read! I'm trying to decide if he's going to do the right thing... or he's secretly just waiting for KJY's downfall so he can take over. 

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5 hours ago, africandramalover said:

"The Ravel Mother Goose suite (Ma Mere l'Oye) is a charmingly delicate and imaginative little suite of fairytale pieces.....Ravel first wrote the Mother Goose Suite in 1908 for two children whose parents he was friends with, in a four-hand suite for solo piano. The children, Mimi and Jean Godebski, were extremely fond of him since he told them fairytales, some of which he made up on the spot!"

 

Thank you thank you!  I heard that piece and was wondering what it was.  Looks like I guessed Coach Kim's backstory right.  :lol:.  But looks like I guessed HyeNa's murderer wrong - I thought it was Prof Cha but it looks like it was the security guard (bribed by Coach Kim)?  You win some, you lose some.  :lol:

 

Bravo to Kang JoonSang.  It took him 50 years but he finally grew up and became an adult (he shaved - new image, new man).  He made his choice to step down from the hospital presidential race.  Balled my eyes out when he asked his Mother if she could just love him as her Son regardless.  I do love how he finally stood up and made his stance known to his Mother.  Note how he reestablished what really mattered.  He may have disappointed her and failed to fulfil her wishes for him BUT he remained her Son.  He did not disown her and walk away from her.  What mattered was the relationship and that hasn't changed (for him anyway, I think his Mom may need time to process it).  That was what always mattered from the beginning.  We are all the product of our circumstances (KMH with her poor upbringing, and her desire for YeSuh to climb that social ladder) and the sum of our choices (will she decide to turn Coach Kim in?)

 

Preview looks really ominous with Coach Kim and Kay interactions :tears:.

 

PS At least one family seems to have a happy ever after (a toast to the Cha family - minus Prof Cha - he can mull at home with his pyramid :lol:). O wait.  The Woo family hasn't fared too badly either all things considered.  Go SooHan, you teach your folks about pyramids too just like you taught them math.  The middle is where it's best.  Why teeter at the pointy top where you get knocked off easily?  Safer in the middle. :lol:

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