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[Drama 2018] The Third Charm, 제3의 매력

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I don't root at all the relationship between JY and the Officer Min ... it's a relationship that seems to be only a dressing for the heart of JY (see his reactions when he sees YJ:tears:) It's sad to say but I don't feel the love of JY for Officer Min, tenderness and respect yes, but love ... not at all ... And the drama goes in this direction, no kiss between them was shown, I think that if Officer Min was the future of JY they would have done!

On the other hand, I didn't like that the history of the white peaches is not the fruit of the destiny ... one can hate a lot of thing with YJ but not to pretend or to lie about herself , she's whole with JY, she doesn't adapt her tastes and her personality according to him and I want to say that,  I find it healthier than someone who will say "amen" to everything you say when you are in a relationship with.

(it's so bored) :wacko:

 

@lu09 : I wanted to add that, I'm totally ok with you about YJ and the fact that she too much internalizes her feelingss and wounds, at this point she appears clearly depressed and could sink into a much deeper depression. It's time for her to open up.

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Wow, great two episodes this week... brought out all the great response and comments here.  I love E11/12. Excellent.

 

@chickfactor if you don’t mind, I was wondering.  Are the scriptwriters Park Eun-Young and Park Hee-Kwon husband/wife duo or siblings?  This is their third drama penning together... such good balance between light/funny and deep reflective moments.  The things we get to hear and see in this drama often only come from years spending time together.  I also like PD Pyo’s visuals/directing and Esom’s acting in telling Young Jae’s heartbreaking story.  

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Hi everyone, thank you for the analysis and comments, I went through the past few pages and really loved the discussion going on in this thread.

 

Firstly, can anyone explain to me why Young Jae decided to break up with Joon Young? 

a. She feels suffocated because her dream is to become a successful hairstylist with lots of money, but Joon Young is more interested in a quiet married life, not caring about their jobs and careers.

b. She heard his suggestion that they can live in a small village and just grow old together and she is afraid, because that is not what she wants.

c. He is insecure and she just can't deal with it.

 

I'm not convinced that a single point of a, b, or c will make Young Jae break up with Joon Young.  I feel that she understands him very well and loves how meticulous he is. If any of you has clarity on this point, please share your view with me.

 

I have just watched ep 11 and 12. 

 

Ep 11 was so realistic. Everything Joon Young went through. Leaving everyone behind, quitting his job, roaming with no aim... that's what you will go through if you had a traumatic experience. I especially loved all the little touches, such as how he decided not to brush his teeth when he went on the double-deck bed before falling asleep. Nerd Joon Young will never allow that. I feel that he really found himself when he lived overseas.

 

Ep 12, when Young Jae walked in, I knew there would be so much more story behind the time leap. She looked totally dead inside, her eyes are a tell tale sign. She is in a place that is not what she signed up for. 

 

At first, I thought HC tried to trick Joon Young, they were not even married and yet he called up saying that it was their marriage anniversary, maybe he found out JY is back and opening a new restaurant. This was HC's way to stamp his ownership on YJ again. Luckily, the plot didn't turn out this way, or I would have cursed throughout the ep.

 

I find it so sad that now that she is in her 30s, she is so far away from her dream of working hard and being rich. Girl, isn't that why you broke up with JY, prioritizing your career? She would never choose marriage to HC over her work. She even broke up with love of her life, JY, so that she can choose life and her work. Why are you (YJ) now a housewife, with dead eyes, married to a man you don't love, looking like you have no emotion?

 

My analysis is that the child is JY and YJ's. Here is my guess:

- JY quietly went back to look at YJ in the salon.

- YJ chased his car, but both of them, being so angry with each other, never stopped or completed the chase. This moment will be a regret to both of them when they look back.

- YJ finds out she is pregnant.

- YJ has dinner with her boss and brother, upon seeing the octopus, she breaks down completely in washroom. This is unlike her headstrong character, where even if she wants to cry, she will hide far away to cry alone. She must have received some news that she cannot hold it back anymore.

- YJ tries to get information about where JY is, so that she can go to tell him... 

- YJ goes to Lisbon. It's impossible that she "ended up there" without knowing he is there. They never professed a love for Portugal in the earlier eps. She must have gone there with JY in mind. 

- She did not explain to her brother or boss that she is pregnant. There are some tell-tale signs of this when the boss and her brother had a video call with her, saying they don't know why she suddenly left.

- In Lisbon, she sees him in public, looking very happy and well-adjusted. She decided (again) to keep mum about her problems and not be a burden to him, so that he can move on and live a good life without her. 

- HC finds out somehow that she is pregnant. 

- HC offers to "take care" of her, the child, etc. After all, Korea is not a good place in terms of law or community gossip for single mothers. 

- She marries him because she is semi-dead inside, now that she can't continue with her work and she has to take care of the kid.

- Her kid, the only reason for her marriage to HC, dies. 

- She can't live anymore. Her work is kaput, her marriage is fake, her child with JY is no longer alive. 

- Nothing matters anymore, leaving us with zombie Young Jae whom we see in ep 12. 

 

In real life, usually lovers can't reconcile if they are at the stage of ep 12. As a woman in my 30s, I can't wait to see them opening up to each other and reconciling. It's like... an alternate universe, away from life in general, where dreams do come true. 

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14 hours ago, infinitemsinspirit said:

I thought of that as well. It would be a huge twist if the kid was actually JY’s. However, that could be the factor that brings them together for the third time. I guess we’ll find out next week...

If the child is JY, I will hate her character more.

Honestly, I'm yet to sympathise with her. What is the essence of a relationship without communication? 

He does something u don't like, tell him you don't like it and don't assume. E.g., he went overboard with the mag photo shoot,tell him to support you instead of overfloggng it. There are ways you can get compliments from men wired that way. Rather she kept mute.when Dr complimented her,she was happy. Why can't she accept her man as he is? The first problem wasn't solved, they entered into another, it piled up with the first one. Now......,

She is tight lipped. And always expect her man to know and do the right thing. And when it's not working the way she want, she will end it. U don't solve a problem by running away.  She is very toxic. Love is never enough to build a relationship. What is love actually?

What I see here is sexual attraction and not love.

Maybe she should go and learn the meaning of love first as it involves sacrifice and commitment.

 

So, assuming she noticed she was pregnant after she broke up with him, has she the right to hide it from him?

She got married so she won't be labelled single mum and made another man raise her ex boyfriend's child.

I hope this is just speculation.

 

U know why JY was into the p.o at firstcos of her commitment and bravery. She sacrificed. He became attracted to that. The fact that a lady can go all out for him awed him so much that he didn't know when he entangled himself.

JY would have done a little

 Rather, it's always telling him off at the most inappropriate time.

 

I love the acting so well.

One of the best I have seen this year and I'm enjoying it so well. But the angle the story is taking is what I don't really like. I would have preferred it if its only the two of them with their baggage than involving the other two.

 

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24 minutes ago, darr said:

If the child is JY, I will hate her character more.

Honestly, I'm yet to sympathise with her. What is the essence of a relationship without communication? 

He does something u don't like, tell him you don't like it and don't assume. E.g., he went overboard with the mag photo shoot,tell him to support you instead of overfloggng it. There are ways you can get compliments from men wired that way. Rather she kept mute.when Dr complimented her,she was happy. Why can't she accept her man as he is? The first problem wasn't solved, they entered into another, it piled up with the first one. Now......,

She is tight lipped. And always expect her man to know and do the right thing. And when it's not working the way she want, she will end it. U don't solve a problem by running away.  She is very toxic. Love is never enough to build a relationship. What is love actually?

What I see here is sexual attraction and not love.

Maybe she should go and learn the meaning of love first as it involves sacrifice and commitment.

 

So, assuming she noticed she was pregnant after she broke up with him, has she the right to hide it from him?

She got married so she won't be labelled single mum and made another man raise her ex boyfriend's child.

I hope this is just speculation.

 

U know why JY was into the p.o at firstcos of her commitment and bravery. She sacrificed. He became attracted to that. The fact that a lady can go all out for him awed him so much that he didn't know when he entangled himself.

JY would have done a little

 Rather, it's always telling him off at the most inappropriate time.

 

I love the acting so well.

One of the best I have seen this year and I'm enjoying it so well. But the angle the story is taking is what I don't really like. I would have preferred it if its only the two of them with their baggage than involving the other two.

 

 

I agree with you, it wouldn't be right of her to hide the child from JY (if it is actually his).

 

Around episodes 7-8, I was honestly getting frustrated with this drama since the main two were being horrible for each other for the lamest reasons. I almost gave up watching it because I thought it would be a situation where they'd stay immature and jealous till the end where they  "magically" get rid of their problems and become inseparable or whatnot. However, the last 2 episodes have really pulled me back into the drama, and I actually think that it could be amazing depending on where they take this storyline from here. I love esom and I think she plays this mature character so well, her story feels so much more realistic to me than some other actresses. I feel her pain and joy in the scenes... I will definitely watch more of her in the future.

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Lol some of you dont even known the circumstances of said speculation yet you already dislike her for no reason.

 

Lets wait and see how these things play out of they play out at all.

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6 hours ago, vladlola06 said:

I don't root at all the relationship between JY and the Officer Min ... it's a relationship that seems to be only a dressing for the heart of JY (see his reactions when he sees YJ:tears:) It's sad to say but I don't feel the love of JY for Officer Min, tenderness and respect yes, but love ... not at all ... And the drama goes in this direction, no kiss between them was shown, I think that if Officer Min was the future of JY they would have done!

On the other hand, I didn't like that the history of the white peaches is not the fruit of the destiny ... one can hate a lot of thing with YJ but not to pretend or to lie about herself , she's whole with JY, she doesn't adapt her tastes and her personality according to him and I want to say that,  I find it healthier than someone who will say "amen" to everything you say when you are in a relationship with.

(it's so bored) :wacko:

 

@lu09 : I wanted to add that, I'm totally ok with you about YJ and the fact that she too much internalizes her feelingss and wounds, at this point she appears clearly depressed and could sink into a much deeper depression. It's time for her to open up.

 

Thanks for reminding me.  Yes, Officer Min is "crazy like that" (JY's words) in how she pretends to be something she's not.  I think she would have been JY trying to please YJ if YJ hadn't broken off with him.  So yes, I think we are going to see more and more manipulation and pretending.  JY doesn't really know Officer Min at the moment.  And I think he also doesn't really understand YJ at the moment because she is hiding so much.  

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6 hours ago, 122am said:

Hi everyone, thank you for the analysis and comments, I went through the past few pages and really loved the discussion going on in this thread.

 

Firstly, can anyone explain to me why Young Jae decided to break up with Joon Young? 

a. She feels suffocated because her dream is to become a successful hairstylist with lots of money, but Joon Young is more interested in a quiet married life, not caring about their jobs and careers.

b. She heard his suggestion that they can live in a small village and just grow old together and she is afraid, because that is not what she wants.

c. He is insecure and she just can't deal with it.

 

I'm not convinced that a single point of a, b, or c will make Young Jae break up with Joon Young.  I feel that she understands him very well and loves how meticulous he is. If any of you has clarity on this point, please share your view with me.

 

I have just watched ep 11 and 12. 

 

Ep 11 was so realistic. Everything Joon Young went through. Leaving everyone behind, quitting his job, roaming with no aim... that's what you will go through if you had a traumatic experience. I especially loved all the little touches, such as how he decided not to brush his teeth when he went on the double-deck bed before falling asleep. Nerd Joon Young will never allow that. I feel that he really found himself when he lived overseas.

 

Ep 12, when Young Jae walked in, I knew there would be so much more story behind the time leap. She looked totally dead inside, her eyes are a tell tale sign. She is in a place that is not what she signed up for. 

 

At first, I thought HC tried to trick Joon Young, they were not even married and yet he called up saying that it was their marriage anniversary, maybe he found out JY is back and opening a new restaurant. This was HC's way to stamp his ownership on YJ again. Luckily, the plot didn't turn out this way, or I would have cursed throughout the ep.

 

I find it so sad that now that she is in her 30s, she is so far away from her dream of working hard and being rich. Girl, isn't that why you broke up with JY, prioritizing your career? She would never choose marriage to HC over her work. She even broke up with love of her life, JY, so that she can choose life and her work. Why are you (YJ) now a housewife, with dead eyes, married to a man you don't love, looking like you have no emotion?

 

My analysis is that the child is JY and YJ's. Here is my guess:

- JY quietly went back to look at YJ in the salon.

- YJ chased his car, but both of them, being so angry with each other, never stopped or completed the chase. This moment will be a regret to both of them when they look back.

- YJ finds out she is pregnant.

- YJ has dinner with her boss and brother, upon seeing the octopus, she breaks down completely in washroom. This is unlike her headstrong character, where even if she wants to cry, she will hide far away to cry alone. She must have received some news that she cannot hold it back anymore.

- YJ tries to get information about where JY is, so that she can go to tell him... 

- YJ goes to Lisbon. It's impossible that she "ended up there" without knowing he is there. They never professed a love for Portugal in the earlier eps. She must have gone there with JY in mind. 

- She did not explain to her brother or boss that she is pregnant. There are some tell-tale signs of this when the boss and her brother had a video call with her, saying they don't know why she suddenly left.

- In Lisbon, she sees him in public, looking very happy and well-adjusted. She decided (again) to keep mum about her problems and not be a burden to him, so that he can move on and live a good life without her. 

- HC finds out somehow that she is pregnant. 

- HC offers to "take care" of her, the child, etc. After all, Korea is not a good place in terms of law or community gossip for single mothers. 

- She marries him because she is semi-dead inside, now that she can't continue with her work and she has to take care of the kid.

- Her kid, the only reason for her marriage to HC, dies. 

- She can't live anymore. Her work is kaput, her marriage is fake, her child with JY is no longer alive. 

- Nothing matters anymore, leaving us with zombie Young Jae whom we see in ep 12. 

 

In real life, usually lovers can't reconcile if they are at the stage of ep 12. As a woman in my 30s, I can't wait to see them opening up to each other and reconciling. It's like... an alternate universe, away from life in general, where dreams do come true. 



That's possible but we saw that she was holding the child when she was in Lisbon.  I wonder if she saw JY and Officer Min together in Lisbon.  I am sure HC and her relationship was a marriage of convenience.  I haven't watched ep 12 yet but I am wondering her drunken night was when she slept with HC and fell pregnant too - so so complex ..

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56 minutes ago, dramaninja said:

Lol some of you dont even no the circumstances said speculation yet you already dislike her for no reason.

 

Lets wait and see how these things play out of they play out at all.

@dramaninja  This is just the reasons why I really haven't commented on this episode because we haven't really seen what has happened in the past it was focus more on what was going on with him and not her.. At the time she broke up with him she didnt seem like she was any where thinking of marriage..

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Young Jae is an enigma.  I applaud Esom for her superb portrayal of YJ's complex character.  YJ never really open up to anyone even her brother.  She had said somethings to her best friend and her brother but they never probe deeper so her feelings are kept carefully concealed the whole time.  If I have to describe Young Jae, I'd say she is emotionally unavailable.  

It wouldn't sit well with some viewers but it would be great character growth for YJ if she does try to fix her marriage with HC.  The reason why I said this was because YJ had said she didn't like Black Tea but she grew used to it and doesn't mind it.   It is metaphor of her and HC.  I know many people are rooting for JY and YJ, myself included subconsciously because their love is just so lovely and tragic at the same time.  But really in this story, there are no good or bad characters.  Only flawed characters.  Hence there's also no perfect couple.  

This drama makes viewers question the definition of love.  What is love?  Is it like Soo Jae who set the girl friend free so that he will not be a burden to the girlfriend?  Has he even considered how the girlfriend must have felt?  When they met again, we can see there's still unresolved feelings between them.  But what to do?  She has moved on, got married and have a kid.  Should she go back to Soo Jae if he regretted his actions?  No. They must bear the brunt of their decisions about love.  As for SJ, right now, even when he is successful, he has not fully open up his heart for another possible romance with JR.  At least, he had not publicly acknowledged her and just leave her dangling at his side.  That's not fair on JR either.  Like YJ with JY, I think he is taking JR for granted.  

 

What about Ri Won and SH?  Is love so great that it changes a playboy to a man who desperately want marriage?  Ri Won is sure that she doesn't need something like a marriage cert to prove that they love each other.  She doesn't want to entangle herself with institutions.  Perhaps she enjoys too much the fact that she had a loyal playboy wrapped around her littler finger.  But yet, can their current arrangement achieve the happiness that they both want?  If they both want it to work and make an effort at their "union" to balance their ideals and reality then why not? But then again, they now have a kid.  How is that going to affect their kid?  They can't just think about themselves.  


Can we love not caring about others around us?  Love is a passionate feeling but it is also a decision we live with at the same time.  So yes, even if YJ and JY love each other, they will get to a point where the love is not going to be enough to sustain them.  They have to stick with the weight of their decision because it is the right thing to do and say goodbye to a love that can only be an endearing memory.  I don't think it is fair for them to collect collaterals while they selfishly carry on doing what they like.
 

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20181101_142841_0661.png

 

Love reading everyone's thoughts here.^^ I have to come back and respond to some of your comments. Throwing out some stuffs from the last two episodes that I liked. :D

 

  • In episode 11, Joon Young's pilgrimage started out with all the romanticism of big screen movies and small screen dramas.  The lovely towns, new people and food brought adventures Joon Young's way.  For a guy whose sense of security is based on familiar things, he just sponged up the excitement and opened his heart to enjoy the newness of things he came across.  As he trekked on, he learned to let go of the little things, dirty socks, 13-step skin ritual and dental hygiene, sleeping in perfectly pressed pajamas, for comfort and necessity.  A big change for the rigid person that he was.  Along the way, he slowly opened up to strangers, make friends, learn new languages and smile more.  Yet, he was still a tourist in a foreign country finding himself.  The connection between who he is and what he wants to do with his life came at the lowest point of his travel. Cold and hungry, he stopped by the inn for the best meal of his life.  I really like how he finally connects food to comfort and how he can care for others without suffocating them.  Really, there is no better way to befriend a stranger than to break bread with him.  I'm not sure if he has ever realized how much his cooking means to others.  His parents learned to appreciate the chef of the family while he was gone.  Ironically, with his absence, Joon Young brought them closer together as they are forced to cooperate for the meals.  In this drama, meals are expressions of love... Joo-Ran does the same, cooking for Soo Jae and Young Jae.  We came full circle for Joon Young who chose his true calling as a way to express his caring nature.  He cooks for the love of cooking.  His meals are meant to give solace, to celebrate... an expression of love and care from him to his diners.  Joon Young's cooking is personal so I was not too surprised that he turned down the sous chef offer.  What I like in episode 11 was JY learning to value and embrace what makes him Joon Young.  Unlike Young Jae, he identifies with the simple life.  He is no longer apologetic for his penchant for the ordinariness and unassuming.  The awkward teen is now comfortable in his skin.  I've been waiting all drama to see Joon Young learning to start loving himself so I broke into the biggest smile to see him returning home to open up his one-table restaurant.  He's wearing his perfectionism proudly like a coat of armor.  What's important to chef On is the perfect meal, not the fame or money.  One table is all he needs.  Idealistic? Yes.  Unlike the careful Joon Young that we know? Yes.  :)

 

20181102_172826_1152.png

 

  • Young Jae. The same Young Jae that yearns for excitement and career now misses the quiet life.  Life has been unkind for her the last 5 years.  We don't fully know the backstory that brought her to the empty apartment but she is broken from a personal loss, her daughter? The death of a child is always devastating to a relationship and we see HC trying hard to keep them together.  I only saw Young Jae and the child in Lisbon so maybe HC was not there due to work.  In his previous marriage, he was guilty of being overworked, I wonder if he has the same guilt from not being there in Lisbon.  Young Jae is being Young Jae again internalizing her grief and feelings.  I think this went back to the early episode where she wiped off the tears in the bathroom after SoHee's putdown and willed herself to never show vulnerability to others.  I wish she had cried her eyes out at the dinner table like Joo Ran over the octopus dish.  I wish she had accepted Soo Jae's offer for help.  I wish she accepts that life choices made and their consequences can be terrible but don't define the person that she is.  

 

20181102_172831_4353.pngJTBC

 

  • There's a lot to said about the reversed dynamics between RiWon and Sang Hyun. Their relationship is non-traditional in many ways, it heavily favored RiWon but the drama is quite perceptive at pointing out that it is not a healthy one either.  I am all for breaking the traditional view of raising a child, forming a family, a role traditionally taken on by us females.  It's a great thing that Sang Hyun is a loving capable stay at home dad and RiWon a successful career woman. However, I do think RiWon needs to show the same kind respect and appreciation for Sang Hyun as he does for her.  Things tend to add up over time, resentment, power imbalance that will snowball into frustration that can be destructive to their relationship.  The exaggerated things we see about their relationships are all red flags.  It feels intentional as if the writing is trying to make a point.  Respect runs both ways and balance is the key so I wouldn't be surprised if Sang Hyun revolts!  LOL that he let his look go.  Funny Lee Sang Yi is gold.

 

  • The late night talk between Joon Young and his dad was a nice touch.  It seems like yesterday when both consoled each other over the hopelessness of love and family.  So glad to hear dad telling JY of how proud he is in seeing him grown as a man, like the persimmon tree.  I was a little sad in the beginning that dad didn't seem to fully appreciate JY and all his quirks.  Good to hear him vocalize it now.  It was a proud father moment that was not lost on JY.   I'm proud of Joon Young too Dad!
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6 hours ago, dramaninja said:

Lol some of you dont even known the circumstances of said speculation yet you already dislike her for no reason.

 

Lets wait and see how these things play out of they play out at all.

Dear, this is drama. One is entitled to like or hate a character or speculate.

If u have a superior argument, u bring it on as we all interprets roles differently.

 

Pls stop judging people's opinion when you don't have a counter one as it repels people from contributing more.

I personally don't like it.

U were in a drama that recently ended with me and what kept that chat room moving was speculations. There will be nothing to discuss without speculations and that's why previews throws out parts of some scenes so you can speculate and who knows, you may be right or wrong.

 

If people hold off till an episode is shown and only comment on that, where is the fun.

 

 

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7 hours ago, sheza said:



That's possible but we saw that she was holding the child when she was in Lisbon.  I wonder if she saw JY and Officer Min together in Lisbon.  I am sure HC and her relationship was a marriage of convenience.  I haven't watched ep 12 yet but I am wondering her drunken night was when she slept with HC and fell pregnant too - so so complex ..

If YJ' marriage to HC was a marriage of convenience,  it would have been so from her side only, since he clearly loves her and did everything he could for her. 

When you watch ep. 12, if you haven't yet,  you'll see that the drunken night had nothing to do with then having sex nor romance. They're already married. It's a tragic night and HC is trying to take care of her,  to stop her from dealing with her grief by drinking,  although he's clearly equally broken hearted about the tragedy as well.  Since I'm not sure if you've seen ep.12, I'm not identifying the tragedy they're dealing with. 

 

It seems to me that they're in Lisbon because of his work,  as he seems to be returning there after their last dinner in Seoul.  

 

4 hours ago, bedifferent said:

 

 

Love reading everyone's thoughts here.^^ I have to come back and respond to some of your comments. Throwing out some stuffs from the last two episodes that I liked. :D

 

  • In episode 11, Joon Young's pilgrimage started out with all the romanticism of big screen movies and small screen dramas.  The lovely towns, new people and food brought adventures Joon Young's way.  For a guy whose sense of security is based on familiar things, he just sponged up the excitement and opened his heart to enjoy the newness of things he came across.  As he trekked on, he learned to let go of the little things, dirty socks, 13-step skin ritual and dental hygiene, sleeping in perfectly pressed pajamas, for comfort and necessity.  A big change for the rigid person that he was.  Along the way, he slowly opened up to strangers, make friends, learn new languages and smile more.  Yet, he was still a tourist in a foreign country finding himself.  The connection between who he is and what he wants to do with his life came at the lowest point of his travel. Cold and hungry, he stopped by the inn for the best meal of his life.  I really like how he finally connects food to comfort and how he can care for others without suffocating them.  Really, there is no better way to befriend a stranger than to break bread with him.  I'm not sure if he has ever realized how much his cooking means to others.  His parents learned to appreciate the chef of the family while he was gone.  Ironically, with his absence, Joon Young brought them closer together as they are forced to cooperate for the meals.  In this drama, meals are expressions of love... Joo-Ran does the same, cooking for Soo Jae and Young Jae.  We came full circle for Joon Young who chose his true calling as a way to express his caring nature.  He cooks for the love of cooking.  His meals are meant to give solace, to celebrate... an expression of love and care from him to his diners.  Joon Young's cooking is personal so I was not too surprised that he turned down the sous chef offer.  What I like in episode 11 was JY learning to value and embrace what makes him Joon Young.  Unlike Young Jae, he identifies with the simple life.  He is no longer apologetic for his penchant for the ordinariness and unassuming.  The awkward teen is now comfortable in his skin.  I've been waiting all drama to see Joon Young learning to start loving himself so I broke into the biggest smile to see him returning home to open up his one-table restaurant.  He's wearing his perfectionism proudly like a coat of armor.  What's important to chef On is the perfect meal, not the fame or money.  One table is all he needs.  Idealistic? Yes.  Unlike the careful Joon Young that we know? Yes.  :)

 

 

 

  • Young Jae. The same Young Jae that yearns for excitement and career now misses the quiet life.  Life has been unkind for her the last 5 years.  We don't fully know the backstory that brought her to the empty apartment but she is broken from a personal loss, her daughter? The death of a child is always devastating to a relationship and we see HC trying hard to keep them together.  I only saw Young Jae and the child in Lisbon so maybe HC was not there due to work.  In his previous marriage, he was guilty of being overworked, I wonder if he has the same guilt from not being there in Lisbon.  Young Jae is being Young Jae again internalizing her grief and feelings.  I think this went back to the early episode where she wiped off the tears in the bathroom after SoHee's putdown and willed herself to never show vulnerability to others.  I wish she had cried her eyes out at the dinner table like Joo Ran over the octopus dish.  I wish she had accepted Soo Jae's offer for help.  I wish she accepts that life choices made and their consequences can be terrible but don't define the person that she is.  

 

JTBC

 

  • There's a lot to said about the reversed dynamics between RiWon and Sang Hyun. Their relationship is non-traditional in many ways, it heavily favored RiWon but the drama is quite perceptive at pointing out that it is not a healthy one either.  I am all for breaking the traditional view of raising a child, forming a family, a role traditionally taken on by us females.  It's a great thing that Sang Hyun is a loving capable stay at home dad and RiWon a successful career woman. However, I do think RiWon needs to show the same kind respect and appreciation for Sang Hyun as he does for her.  Things tend to add up over time, resentment, power imbalance that will snowball into frustration that can be destructive to their relationship.  The exaggerated things we see about their relationships are all red flags.  It feels intentional as if the writing is trying to make a point.  Respect runs both ways and balance is the key so I wouldn't be surprised if Sang Hyun revolts!  LOL that he let his look go.  Funny Lee Sang Yi is gold.

 

  • The late night talk between Joon Young and his dad was a nice touch.  It seems like yesterday when both consoled each other over the hopelessness of love and family.  So glad to hear dad telling JY of how proud he is in seeing him grown as a man, like the persimmon tree.  I was a little sad in the beginning that dad didn't seem to fully appreciate JY and all his quirks.  Good to hear him vocalize it now.  It was a proud father moment that was not lost on JY.   I'm proud of Joon Young too Dad!

Awesome character analysis! Every so often, my Literature professor hat pops back up, (usually I try to put it aside when on fun forums), and I really enjoy some great analysis here. I LOVE your post. :wub:

4 hours ago, sheza said:

Young Jae is an enigma.  I applaud Esom for her superb portrayal of YJ's complex character.  YJ never really open up to anyone even her brother.  She had said somethings to her best friend and her brother but they never probe deeper so her feelings are kept carefully concealed the whole time.  If I have to describe Young Jae, I'd say she is emotionally unavailable.  

It wouldn't sit well with some viewers but it would be great character growth for YJ if she does try to fix her marriage with HC.  The reason why I said this was because YJ had said she didn't like Black Tea but she grew used to it and doesn't mind it.   It is metaphor of her and HC.  I know many people are rooting for JY and YJ, myself included subconsciously because their love is just so lovely and tragic at the same time.  But really in this story, there are no good or bad characters.  Only flawed characters.  Hence there's also no perfect couple.  

This drama makes viewers question the definition of love.  What is love?  Is it like Soo Jae who set the girl friend free so that he will not be a burden to the girlfriend?  Has he even considered how the girlfriend must have felt?  When they met again, we can see there's still unresolved feelings between them.  But what to do?  She has moved on, got married and have a kid.  Should she go back to Soo Jae if he regretted his actions?  No. They must bear the brunt of their decisions about love.  As for SJ, right now, even when he is successful, he has not fully open up his heart for another possible romance with JR.  At least, he had not publicly acknowledged her and just leave her dangling at his side.  That's not fair on JR either.  Like YJ with JY, I think he is taking JR for granted.  

 

What about Ri Won and SH?  Is love so great that it changes a playboy to a man who desperately want marriage?  Ri Won is sure that she doesn't need something like a marriage cert to prove that they love each other.  She doesn't want to entangle herself with institutions.  Perhaps she enjoys too much the fact that she had a loyal playboy wrapped around her littler finger.  But yet, can their current arrangement achieve the happiness that they both want?  If they both want it to work and make an effort at their "union" to balance their ideals and reality then why not? But then again, they now have a kid.  How is that going to affect their kid?  They can't just think about themselves.  


Can we love not caring about others around us?  Love is a passionate feeling but it is also a decision we live with at the same time.  So yes, even if YJ and JY love each other, they will get to a point where the love is not going to be enough to sustain them.  They have to stick with the weight of their decision because it is the right thing to do and say goodbye to a love that can only be an endearing memory.  I don't think it is fair for them to collect collaterals while they selfishly carry on doing what they like.
 

YES! To everything you said!

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I know this is so off topic but since everyone is torn and speculating about the plot... I wanted to lighten the mood by mentioning that the latest part of the drama ost (part 6) came out in the last ep and I really like it. The title is “When it Rains” by Soyou and Mad clown, and love the combo of her calming voice and his rap. You guys should give it a listen! Here is the link:

 

 

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4 hours ago, bedifferent said:
  • In episode 11, Joon Young's pilgrimage started out with all the romanticism of big screen movies and small screen dramas.  The lovely towns, new people and food brought adventures Joon Young's way.  For a guy whose sense of security is based on familiar things, he just sponged up the excitement and opened his heart to enjoy the newness of things he came across.  As he trekked on, he learned to let go of the little things, dirty socks, 13-step skin ritual and dental hygiene, sleeping in perfectly pressed pajamas, for comfort and necessity.  A big change for the rigid person that he was.  Along the way, he slowly opened up to strangers, make friends, learn new languages and smile more.  Yet, he was still a tourist in a foreign country finding himself.  The connection between who he is and what he wants to do with his life came at the lowest point of his travel. Cold and hungry, he stopped by the inn for the best meal of his life.  I really like how he finally connects food to comfort and how he can care for others without suffocating them.  Really, there is no better way to befriend a stranger than to break bread with him.  I'm not sure if he has ever realized how much his cooking means to others.  His parents learned to appreciate the chef of the family while he was gone.  Ironically, with his absence, Joon Young brought them closer together as they are forced to cooperate for the meals.  In this drama, meals are expressions of love... Joo-Ran does the same, cooking for Soo Jae and Young Jae.  We came full circle for Joon Young who chose his true calling as a way to express his caring nature.  He cooks for the love of cooking.  His meals are meant to give solace, to celebrate... an expression of love and care from him to his diners.  Joon Young's cooking is personal so I was not too surprised that he turned down the sous chef offer.  What I like in episode 11 was JY learning to value and embrace what makes him Joon Young.  Unlike Young Jae, he identifies with the simple life.  He is no longer apologetic for his penchant for the ordinariness and unassuming.  The awkward teen is now comfortable in his skin.  I've been waiting all drama to see Joon Young learning to start loving himself so I broke into the biggest smile to see him returning home to open up his one-table restaurant.  He's wearing his perfectionism proudly like a coat of armor.  What's important to chef On is the perfect meal, not the fame or money.  One table is all he needs.  Idealistic? Yes.  Unlike the careful Joon Young that we know? Yes.  :)

 

 

OMG your response here is EVERYTHING. You summed up exactly what was wonderful about Episode 11 and his journey for self discovery. 

 

After watching Seo Kang Joon in Cheese in the Trap in the middle of watching The Third Charm, I really have to say his acting is just superb. Even just physically, he seems different, even in the facial expressions. Like SKJ is choosing to hold his face differently in order to become Joon Young. 

 

As an theatre actor and acting teacher, it is so great to see actors do good work. And I might gush about SKJ here but actually all of the actors are top notch. 

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the writers made us fall in love with Se Eun is just so precious that I don't want anything bad to happen to her.

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13 hours ago, dramaninja said:

Lol some of you dont even known the circumstances of said speculation yet you already dislike her for no reason.

 

Lets wait and see how these things play out of they play out at all.

 

Rather than only speculating, it seems like there is a lot of hate for the FL.  That's really sad because it is theorizing ahead of the facts.  I suspect that there is backstory that has not been told yet and that we should wait, as you sensibly say, to see how these things play out.

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Well....the richard simmons in officer gf’s armour is that she lied about the peaches ....then about going to Spain for Football then to Portugal...Which in drama land can quickly be turned into stalker territory....

but hopefully they will take the high road...ie she realises that jy’s heart will not beat that way for her....

Guess next week will be for YJ’s backstory...

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Someone mentioned that Se-Eun's character description is different than what we've known about her so far, so I thought I would check it out:

 

http://tv.jtbc.joins.com/cast/PR10010947/6

 

민ì¸ì ê¹ì¤íì ì¬ì§

 

민세은 (김윤혜)

제2의 여자

 

이 시대를 살며 연애를 하기엔 나물도 못 무쳐먹을 쑥맥...
그러나 얼마 전까지 그녀는 ‘참 하다’라는 표현으로 칭찬받아 마땅할 여성임엔 틀림없다.

 

시커멓고 필요이상 건장한 남정네들의 땀내로 가득한 정글 같은 경찰서에서 유일하게 민트 향기가 나는 초식동물 같은 준영. 민원실 신임순경 세은이 준영의 깔끔한 책상을 발견 한 순간, 아마 그 순간이 아니었을까.. 시간이 많이 지나 떠올려 보는 사랑의 시작 같은 것. 사랑의 시작이라는 게 늘, 거창한 순간은 아니니까..

 

준영 곁을 맴돌며, 언제나 힘이 되고 위로가 되어주는 그녀. 그러나, 그녀라고 질투와 분노, 미움이 없겠는가.. 참한 여성이 참한 방식으로 터트리는 질투와 분노와 미움에, 공감 할 수도, 동정 할 수도, 비난도 할 수 있을 것이다.

 

Min Se-Eun (Kim, Yoon-Hye)

The Second Woman

 

Living in this era, she is a "fool" who was likely to have never dated...

Until recently, she was a woman who would rightfully be described as "demure and well-behaved."

 

In the jungle-like police department full of dark, sweaty and sturdy men she meets Joon-Young, the only man among them who seems like a mint-scented herbivore. The moment she discovered his clean desk, perhaps it was then... after much time has passed, she thinks that was when her love for him began. After all, the beginning of love is not always a grand moment.

 

She circles Joon-Young and always tries to give him support. But even her, does she not have jealousy, rage and hate? To see a demure, well-behaved woman express her jealousy, rage and hate in her demure, well-behaved way  - we can identify with, sympathize with, and criticize her.

 

--

 

I don't think the fact that she lied about having white peaches and then went to buy white peaches (with crutches, dragging her injured foot!), or that she lied about why she was in Portugal means Se-Eun is a bad person.

 

It does mean that she will go after what she wants. So her way of describing herself as "lacking courage" is not accurate at all.

 

But based on that, and on her character description, she will not go gently into the good night.

 

--

 

As far as why Young-Jae married Ho-Chul:

 

Based on what we know so far, it's hard to answer this question. But ultimately, I have to assume that she wanted to explore her options.

 

During their meal, Ho-Chul said something like, "Remember how hard I tried to win your heart, back then?" (He wanted to walk down memory lane, but she seemed very not in the mood for it.)

 

So he tried very hard to woo her, which we already knew. And after she broke up with Joon-Young, he probably stepped up his efforts. And he was handsome, rich, and successful. She was 27 and Joon-Young was the first real relationship she has had. It's really not strange that she wanted to explore her options.

 

For now, I'm going to assume that that is all it was, and not anything else, like an unplanned pregnancy. I think this is a solid theory, but I would really not like for this to be true, simply because it would be too cruel. So Joon-Young was mere blocks away in Lisbon as his child died? And he had no idea it happened, or even that the child existed? That just seems... too much.

 

But then again...

 

Last thing is that I am now a bit wary. I enjoyed the story so far, just as it was. I know some people had problems with the whole show because it didn't follow the traditional rom-com plot, with the lead female dumping the lead male on two separate occasions. But I thought it was realistic, refreshing, and I trusted that there was a grand plan, that the entire plot was thought-out, and they're exploring more than the typical "happy ever after" story arc. And that was why I felt invested.

 

But now they throw a dead child into the mix? (Which, I should note, no one is totally sure about, yet.) Burying your child is easily the most painful thing anyone can go through, something you never really recover from. Every other emotion they have on this show is dwarfed by this tragedy.

 

Remember how just one episode ago, the saddest thing was that Ho-Chul and Young-Jae might have married? And Se-Eun might get dumped? How does any of that compare to a dead child?

 

I'm thinking about another show, which I'll put in spoilers:

 

Spoiler

"Shall We Kiss First?" was an interesting and cute romance, but once they threw a dead child into the story, I felt like the gears ground to a halt and the show became an entirely different show.

 

Ugh, I don't know about this.

 

But I'll be glued to my TV when the next one airs. See you all there!

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